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How Much Ballpark?

June 1, 2006 11:41 PM

So, just how much ballpark will this site hold? For such a small site, it's a very big question.

To answer it, I once again turned to Google Earth and created the following images. They show just how some existing parks might fit onto our site. It turns out that many of them simply would not fit no matter what. A few work if flipped (left becomes right, see Fenway Park below).

More importantly, I'm using just the ballpark itself, and none of its parking or support buildings. In almost all parks, the site footprint also includes huge amounts of land used for these purposes. As you'll see, the Twins will have to be very creative in tucking everything onto the land they have.

An advantage is that the HERC plant (also known as the Hennepin County Garbage Burner) is controlled by the county. It means the Twins will have some sway in determining just where their land ends. Dave St. Peter has already indicated that they intend to build over the railroad tracks, though it remains to be seen just how far they'll be able to go.

The preliminary site plan has the diamond oriented almost due east. I really don't think this is the best orientation for the site because half the main grandstand will face away from the skyline (due south might be better, but the sun would then become an issue -- I'll write more about this another day). I haven't limited myself to this orientation. I just tried to make them fit in a way which looks like it might work -- just to see if it was possible.

The images below are just for parks which seemed pertinent to the discussion. If you'd like to see another one not shown, please indicate in the comments and I'll add it.

Camden Yards

US Cellular Field

Coors Field

Fenway Park (reversed)

Jacobs Field (reversed)

Kauffmann Stadium

Minute Maid Park

AT&T Park

PNC Park

Turner Field (reversed)

Wrigley Field

Safeco Field

Dodger Stadium

Metrodome

Comments

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Are the buildings behind home plate expendable or parking lot across street? Or any roads around it? Haven't heard from anything that says it is too small of a site but from the looks of it, it looks like they're going to have to cram the stadium in the location, just like they did with the metrodome.

Posted on June 2, 2006 at 8:08 PM by Luke 1

My understanding is that the parking ramp (lower right) stays unchanged. The small street between the ramp and the site (3rd Avenue North/service road) may go away.

The bridges to the northeast and southwest will remain unchanged excpet that the one on the northeast (5th Street North) has to be beefed up to accomodate the weight of light rail trains.

To the northwest is the garbage burner. Presumably all of those buildings stay, but the Twins can build on the parts which do not already contain structures.

(I'll verify this with Dave St. Peter in my next email.)

Posted on June 2, 2006 at 9:44 PM by Rick 2

what is the ATT park image supposed to be?

Posted on June 7, 2006 at 1:50 PM by Gilbert Chan 3

ATT is the ballpark formerly known as PacBell in SF.

Posted on June 7, 2006 at 2:09 PM by Brett Carow 4

Take a look at this picture from Google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=417+N+5th+St,+Minneapolis,+MN

That parking lot below the marker is the ballpark site. Switch to satellite view and zoom out one setting until you can see the Metrodome. Compare the size of the Dome to the size of the ballpark site. The Metrodome looks to be just a tad bit wider than the ballpark site, but then the Metrodome doesn't have an overhanging second deck (as I assume the new ballpark will have) and most of the Dome's seating is in the second deck making it wider than it need be.

Posted on June 7, 2006 at 2:29 PM by ASW 5

how about safeco field, and dodger stadium? I also think the main grandstand facing away from the downtown skyline is a mistake facing south, or north would be better, and create cool shadows in the late summer.
Safeco field is gorgeous.
Major League's should contribute a roof at low interest to the Twins.

Posted on June 8, 2006 at 12:57 AM by andy h 6

It never occurred to me to do the Metrodome. As you can see, it's not much larger than the footprint available.

Dodger Stadium was built with absolutely no constrictions on its size. In some ways, it is the prototypical suburban ballpark. No surprise that it doesn't come anywhere near fitting.

And Safeco provides a cautionary tale about roofs. It adds substantially to the space necessary. Short of using the air space over the garbage burner (as it was in the original conceptual drawings), I just can't imagine it working.

Thanks for the suggestions, and thanks for stopping by! -- Rick

Posted on June 9, 2006 at 12:14 AM by Rick 7

I have been using google earth to do ballpark research, and one thing to keep in mind is not only the elevation of your viewpoint, but also the elevation of the land that the ballpark sits on. If you look at Coors Field with an elevation of 5000 feet you will be at field level, whearas if you look at Safeco, you will see a very small blip. I think you took this into account, but it is not an exact science. Nice site and keep up the good work!

Posted on June 11, 2006 at 12:26 AM by James 8

James,

I did take this into account, wanting to make sure that the comparisons were at the exact same scale. For that reason, all images are from 500m above the actual playing surface. -- Rick

Posted on June 12, 2006 at 2:24 PM by Rick 9

RFK Stadium opened in October of 1961 for football, then six months later for baseball. Dodger Stadium opened in 1962. Both venues are in parking lots. While RFK Stadium was open before Dodger Stadium was, Dodger Stadium was under construction before RFK Stadium was, I believe. Both ballparks are in some ways the first prototypical suburban ballparks, but they both are right in big cities, not in suburbs. Dodger Stadium is a little north of downtown, RFK Stadium is a mile east of the US Capitol Building, on a direct line with the National Mall.

Posted on June 18, 2006 at 11:55 AM by Christopher Kassulke 10

when will the new dome be finished

Posted on December 22, 2006 at 12:01 PM by jordan 11

shikwhat

Posted on February 16, 2007 at 2:55 PM by murph 12

i'd like to see great american ballpark on this site i live in cincinnati and our site of the new park was called "the wedge" because they had a similar situation

Posted on May 30, 2007 at 1:32 PM by Erik Huber 13

xdvdsfvd fdgsd
fdsaiuwa dfgdsgfs

Posted on May 3, 2008 at 07:03 AM by pupkarik 14

your picture that says minute maid is not minute maid at all, I believe it is Seattle Seahawk's stadium..just fyi

Posted on May 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM by Steve 15

my mistake that was a picture of reliant stadium in houston,where the nfl's houston texans play

Posted on May 5, 2008 at 5:46 PM by steve 16

Hey you shoulds put rogers centre on here

Posted on September 24, 2008 at 3:18 PM by trent 17

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Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 2363 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.

Washington

Here's a correction: The LRT platform will actually be able to load outbound trains from both sides.

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What a great sight!

Carew atrium menu part 1

LRT station has appeared.

Sign installer dude

More of a bird's-eye view of the same area.

A closer look into the park from down the street. How great will this view be during a game??

The steel cage expands.

Artist at (very painstaking) work

TC caps everywhere! (Is that you?)

Showing more of the context for the louvers.

Looking northeast from the ballpark site (Source: LP)

The plaza as viewed from across the park. The right field overhang section will be built just in from where the plaza supports are.

Millers fans leaving Nicollet Park after a game in 1923, where a trolley was waiting. (Click to enlarge.)

Bench seating just off the plaza

Flowers and Hall-of-Fame plaques. Very nice.

Harmon Killebrew

Main ticket window area

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Concept drawing of Coomer gate (click to enlarge)

This is the last hope for so-called knot-hole views. I'm skeptical.

Don Swanson, left, in-coming commander of the Richfield American Legion, and Joe Kennedy, right, out-going commander, are pictured with the Legion's new flag pole, which once stood at old Metropolitan Stadium. (Click to enlarge.)