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Around the Horn #1: New Siebert

April 13, 2013 2:10 PM

With Target Field starting to get that sort of lived-in, feels-like-hominess air about it, it's time to turn our eyes outward a bit and see what else is happening in the baseball and stadium world right here in the Twin Cities. If nothing else, it will serve as a distraction from the lack of springiness. Surprisingly, there's lots to see.

Over the next three posts, we'll poke around at New Siebert Field, the new Saints park in St. Paul, and the fiscal monstrosity set to emerge like a chest-burster on the eastern edge of downtown Minneapolis. But I'm getting a little ahead of myself.

New Siebert Field

The first game at New Siebert Field was played on Friday, April 5, under grey skies that sprinkled very light snow on the proceedings. It was certainly a happy occasion.

Slideshow Play/Pause Play/Pause Play/Pause Image 1 of 9
Slideshow: siebert_opens
Overview 

I've followed this rebuild sort of from a distance. I took my kids to the last game at old Siebert last spring, and managed to get to the groundbreaking ceremony for the new one back in June. I've also swung by there a few times to get a look at the progress (the slideshow below documents the whole transition).

Slideshow Play/Pause Play/Pause Play/Pause Image 1 of 42
Slideshow: siebert_groundbreaking_updates
May 1, 2012 

Truth be told, it's been sort of hard to get into the project, and mostly because it's, well, a little underwhelming -- in both aspiration and realization.

Don't get me wrong. It's great that the U has a new baseball stadium, and certainly impressive that they were able to raise the money needed (project budgeted around $7.5 million) to replace a facility which was way beyond decrepit. The list of names of people who came together on this project reads like a who's who of the baseball elite in the Twin Cities. Their generosity really makes it hard to criticize the project.

What has been actually built so far is only a tiny subset of this vision.

But the design-build team, which actually spent the money, has managed to create a replacement that is all about practicality and very slight on imagination. There's not much here to get excited about beyond its mere existence and the goodwill of those involved.

The project reused a terrible site, replaced truly beautiful grass with durable and economical but wholly disheartening FieldTurf (not even retaining dirt cutouts around the bases, despite what the concept video shows), and is essentially a rather small-scale modernization which may have lost more than it gained -- or maybe not, depending on who you are. (The people at the baseball program seem giddy beyond words.)

Before I continue, let me make clear that I understand they have not finished this ballpark yet, and will be doing so in phases over the next few years as funding becomes available. Eventually there will be (according to the concept images at least) several additional seating areas, lights and possibly a canopy over some of the seating. But what you see now is pretty much what you are going to have, at least for a while. (I'm assuming it will get some sort of nice sign out front sooner rather than later.)

There are certainly things to like about the product as it stands already. It's nice that there are grass berms which, I presume, could be sat on if the crowd grew that large (and the snow piles melted). The free viewing area beyond the left field fence is a great touch. If I were still a student living over on University Avenue, you'd find me out there at every opportunity.

Grass berms are sort of trendy right now, probably because they are cheap and bucolic and suggest a picnic lunch rather than a big-money sport. In this case, they can also serve as attractive placeholders for the stands which haven't yet been built. They are probably all ready for easy upgrade when the funds appear. All in all, not a bad solution (way better than the old cement and asphalt), but it does call attention to what was not built in this round.

The park's opening day capacity of 1,420, while certainly more than sufficient for the opening day crowd, actually seems kind of dour. What does it say about the program when the people who run it can't imagine attracting more fans than that? Even Northwoods League ballparks typically seat 2,000 to 5,000. I know, the Gophers also play in the Metrodome. And they just don't draw. But really. This program may be a little too humble for its own good.

My biggest lament is that the whole thing has a generic, utilitarian quality that leaves it essentially devoid of, if you'll pardon the expression, ballpark magic. The designers might have done well to take cues both from the grandstand it replaced (which had a wonderful 1970s late-Brutalist beauty), or even the much more imaginative, refined, lively and intimate Cowles softball stadium (with its handsome maroon seats) which sits within view beyond the center field fence.

They might have simply moved the ballpark one notch to the east on 8th Street (currently occupied by a pressurized dome, and formerly softball fields), where they could have had a proper northeast orientation for the playing field, and connected to the larger sports facilities just across the railroad tracks. That might have even created a tailgating-for-baseball opportunity which just can't exist in the current cramped plot -- shoe-horned as it is between practice facilities for other sports, with no street profile (or parking) whatsoever.

Some separation could have helped minimize the sense that this is also just a practice field sandwiched between other practice fields. Or better, it could have minimized the perception that the baseball program at the U is an after-thought. The new Siebert does nothing to feel like a marquee facility which celebrates the Great Game on the campus of a great university (my own alma mater). That makes me a little sad.

But let's give the baseball program some credit for actually accomplishing what they set out to: modernization. That's a laudable goal in itself, which I understand well.

This is why I get it, even if I don't like it.

In fact, this rebuild reminds me of my own garage-replacement project a few years ago. Our old garage was built with the house in 1907, featured a matching roof line, quaint windows and a five-paneled door (just like the house). It clearly had been home to horses at one time, and was a lovable throwback to a simpler era.

But the roof had holes, the studs were rotted at the bottom, the windows were a security hazard, and the pull-out doors were impossibly impractical. We hardly ever used it because we felt it might collapse onto the car at any moment. (I'm fairly certain that the five-paneled door was load-bearing.)

When we decided to replace it, we talked with contractors about recreating some of the distinctive features, but quickly found out the difference in cost and logistics and wound up building something that looks pretty much like every other garage in south Minneapolis. (Using Hardy plank and our specific house color does offset the generic appearance at least a little bit.)

But one of my neighbors appeared one day to lament the loss of the quaint old structure. "It was so beautiful," she said. "We'll miss it."

But I don't miss it at all. You see, we love -- and use -- our new garage much more than our old one. We aren't the least bit regretful that practicality and economics intercepted our initial wishes. It's better in so many ways that we have never looked back, not for a moment. We tore down something arguably more attractive than what we built, essentially modernizing at the cost of some romance, but we went from barely-functional to streamlined and essential.

That's how I would describe what happened to Siebert Field. And I get it.

But garages and ballparks fall into two distinctly different classes. A baseball stadium actually has a responsibility to inspire -- players, coaches, fans, financial supporters, other teams. And while the cost of creativity and imagination is greater than zero, so are the benefits. In fact, the benefits can often be measured in way more than dollars.

It's one of the founding principles of this web site, borne out by what we saw happen with Target Field: The vision and details matter. You can have exactly the same functionality while building with vision and aspiration. As a building, Target Field soars in many ways. It solved problems, but it did so while also engaging the spirit.

It has nothing to do with scale. Even small parks can inspire. Even parks on a limited budget can engage the imagination and stoke the love of baseball. Even small parks can focus (and build) the fan base. Even parks sandwiched between practice fields for more popular sports can make a statement and grab some glory. All it takes is setting that as a goal, then measuring each aesthetic decision you make against that goal.

Given that New Siebert Field is not finished, I'm going to hold out hope that creativity and imagination will play a larger role in the inevitable future upgrades. The U's baseball program deserves that.

Next up: Baseball in Lowertown.

Comments


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Great synopsis, Rick! Good that they have it. Good that they raised some of the money for it--though it took a LONG time. And, as a native Midwesterner, good that it's efficient, I guess. But, yes, lacking a larger vision. And hopefully there are more niceties to it, maybe even before the season's over.

Posted on April 13, 2013 at 2:24 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 1

Nice pics as usual Rick! First time I had seen any decent pics of the new Seibert.

Posted on April 13, 2013 at 3:33 PM by luke Highlight this comment 2

This is a bit of shameless self promotion and even though this is a baseball website, being a hockey state I figured most of you would enjoy this. Clicky linky.

My first video production. A compilation of Minnesota Special Hockey's trip to Philadelphia for the National Disabled Hockey Festival.

Sorry for the hijack.

Posted on April 13, 2013 at 7:27 PM by jared Highlight this comment 3

If it's a "hijack", it's a very nice and very meaningful one.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 08:56 AM by terry Highlight this comment 4

Twins/Mets game today postponed to August.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 09:24 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 5

I often come to this website and post questions that seemed to get answered so heres another question...i know this has been brought up before but i cant remember the answer...here goes..
I know the broadcast of FSN the camera view is really high above the pitcher almost looking down at the pitcher catcher....but i was watching MLB network game highlights and they had the camera view much lower like it is in most stadiums...is there any reason for this? im not sure what peoples opinions are about this but me personally i prefer the lower camera angle...is there more then one camera for different networks they use?? thanks
rolland

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 10:38 AM by Rolland Highlight this comment 6

I don't know about the positioning of the cameras, but typically a national network will have more cameras at a game than will a regional network or local station. I personally like the shot from above and behind home plate rather than always using the center field shot.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 10:57 AM by terry Highlight this comment 7

I'm surprised the game is postponed today. Is it raining that hard in Minneapolis? Mostly just a nuisance drizzle here.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 12:55 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 8

Could be that the cold factored into the decision, without anyone wanting to say that. Right now (when the first pitch would have been thrown) it is neither raining nor snowing nor sleeting, though the radar does look like more is on the way.

Has there been any talk about postponing tomorrow's game?

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 1:13 PM by Rick 9

"I'm surprised the game is postponed today."
Could have something to do with being outscored 20-7 in the first two.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 4:05 PM by schweady Highlight this comment 10

I spent 45 minutes clearing snow and ice this afternoon and can now attest to the fact that it is very much not baseball weather today. I wound up soaked to the bone...

Postponement was a good call.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 5:26 PM by Rick 11

Watching the Twins on TV yesterday and happened to catch something odd during the Kent Hrbek Carrier commercial. About 2/3 of the way through the commercial, a full-screen graphic appears with the details of the Carrier deal. The text is superimposed over a faded graphic of a ballpark. It appears to be one of the conceptual drawings of TF from years ago when the drawings included a retractable roof. I just couldn't believe it.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 7:08 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 12

TTH, that has "legal" written all over it. Those images are public domain while images of the actual TF are subject to approval by (and compensation to) the Twins. It's a little bit of a gray area, but I'm sure he and his employers don't want to do anything which might upset the team.

You'll also notice that he never wears a Twins logo in any of his commercials (same for Bert et. al.).

These are serious intellectual property issues -- and I speak as someone with firsthand experience on the matter...

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 7:53 PM by Rick 13

Rick- didnt someone take issue with the "Ballpark Magic" name of this blog? I remember a while back there was an intellectual property thing with BPM but couldnt quite remember what the issue was.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 9:15 PM by luke Highlight this comment 14

Having only been to old Seibert field for a high school game some years ago, I recall the stands being bad, but not the field. Was the field in that rough of condition that it needed to be replaced? Or was it that it was going be torn up by construction equipment they decided to replace it? It would have seemed more economical to keep the field it already had, as opposed to replacing it with fieldturf, which isn't exactly cheap.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 11:42 PM by Duffman Highlight this comment 15

Also if you were planning on seeing Wrigley in it's current form, as I would like to, you better get down there soon, before they drop $500m into it.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 11:48 PM by Duffman Highlight this comment 16

Duffman,

The natural grass field was in pristine condition for the last game, then not tended after that. By the time of the ground-breaking, it had grown to seed.

The new field does not match either the location or elevation of the old field, so keeping it through construction was not an option.

But I'm sure that the decision to go with turf had to do with the low maintenance costs. It's not hard to imagine that they will regret this decision and revert to grass when this turf wears out.

Posted on April 14, 2013 at 11:57 PM by Rick 17

Rick, is the field alignment also why they couldn't just use the existing light standards?

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 07:42 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 18

Even with the grandstands in declining condition, the Gophers used to say that Siebert had "the best playing field in the Big 10." Oh well, this, too, will pass.

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 07:58 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 19

I think I recall hearing that the reason they put in an artificial turf field is so that the field can be ready easier and earlier in the season than a grass field without a heating system. (Obviously a field heating system like Target Field was more than they could afford so they wanted to have the field ready to practice and play games on as early in the baseball season as possible. The decision was mostly taken because of our weather in this area, more than any other factor.

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 08:16 AM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 20

There were probably multiple reasons for dumping the light standards, fiesta. In addition to reshaping the site plan, they also would not have been able to safely work around them during construction.

And I'm also pretty sure that they were very old...

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 10:09 AM by Rick 21

I like the roof on the new grandstand. Should keep the rain off right? LOL! Perhaps coach Anderson can have some cookies sales to fund raise for the new lights? Bet they wish they were in the Humpty Dump instead of outside this spring or winter! Looks like we will go from Winter to Summer? When is the State Fair? LOL!

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 22

I remember the big splash when they added them in the early '90s. Not that old! I figured that the razing of the whole site would preclude keeping them. I noticed some concrete pillar-like structures in the outfield. Placeholders of a sort?

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 10:51 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 23

That's funny because I'm with you: Early 90s? Not that long ago!

But that's 20 years -- or 10 lifetimes in technology. Maybe the bulbs were getting scarce, or, like the telephone pole behind my house, birds were causing complications to the electrical.

I saw those pillars, but have no idea what they might be for. Future lighting is as good a guess as any.

(I tried to make contact with the media people at the U to get answers for such questions, but the office appeared to be run by students who had no idea what was going on and couldn't refer me to anyone who did. My best source of info on this project has been from a fan of this site who just happens to work at the U, albeit not in the sports program.)

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 11:04 AM by Rick 24

I believe the old light standards went to the Mini Met in Jordan, MN

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 25

By the way, for those receiving the daily photos...

Something changed in the software I've been using to automatically update Facebook and Twitter when those are published. It happened back in January and when I tried to troubleshoot it, I broke the whole system I had created.

Just after opening day I decided I really had to bear down and try to fix it, but that only made it worse. It worked for a few days, although not updating social media properly. Then I made a change which resulted in good social media links but multiple notifications to email subscribers. Gaa!

The whole thing is now held together with twine, and I'm still trying to fix it. So, please bear with me! I will try to send only one notification whenever a picture is published, but it may be more than one for a couple more days, depending on how much time I can carve out for troubleshooting...

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 11:22 AM by Rick 26

The field is not in the same location so using existing field or light was not possible. Also the field was starting to have problems as right field was sinking and was approximately 4 inches or so lower than home plate. The field was built over an old neighborhood and the house foundations were still under the field.

Turf was needed in order to play earlier in the season and practice late in the fall. No way would Gophers be playing outdoors in this weather without turf. Also apparently the field turf plays very well, don't be surprised if you see other northern college and high school teams go to this type of surface.

Also remember starting next year no dome or indoor football stadium will be available for baseball for at least 2 seasons. A new field was needed or the Gophers would essentially have no home until the 2017 season.

Finally new Seibert was built in accordance with the $$$ fundraised. Hopefully the team can get the dollars needed to build the canopy and lights, etc. The open concourse is awesome and you can watch the game from anywhere. If it does ever get nice this "Spring" those berms will be a fine place to catch a college game too.

Posted on April 15, 2013 at 11:32 AM by Freealonzo Highlight this comment 27

Anybody see the catch and subsequent double play Revere made last night (click my name)? I'm going to miss watching him make these plays at Target Field. Hopefully the pitching TR got in return pans out.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 08:56 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 28

Hey twinsfan, lookey at that grass pattern. And the trees? Oh, the trees! Linky.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 10:17 AM by jared Highlight this comment 29

I went and saw "42" last night, it seemed fitting to watch it on "Jackie Robinson Day".

Excellent movie, but some of the scenes are pretty disturbing. Hard to see the reminders that our country was once so much more intolerant than it is today.

The computer generated recreations of some of the old parks were pretty breathtaking, kudos to the folks who made them happen.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 10:39 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 30

If you want to see a picture that captures the racial hatred which at that time was not something that needed to be hidden, google the photo of Ben Chapman and Robinson. Commissioner Chandler ordered Chapman to pose, but Chapman said he would not shake hands. So they posed holding a bat. The expression on Chapman's face says it all.

Anybody besides me say "here we go again" after the leadoff homer last night?

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 10:51 AM by terry Highlight this comment 31

Yep Jared you should send that to Larry Boy! Tell him that's how a field should look like! Now we got crappy grass patterns and goat ropping concerts to make it look like it does. Why not just send the goat roppers over to TCF bank?

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 11:38 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 32

+1 for the picture Jared

-2 for stirring up twinfan

twinfan, what's a ropper?

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 12:09 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 33

I'm glad the Gopher program has their own new on campus stadium, BUT, lets be real, the stadium is a very large letdown. The whole thing is very underwhelming. Seriously, if the powers that be, and this includes Coach Anderson, are elated with such a stadium, we need to think about getting some other people involved with the program that have far higher aspirations for it and can actually dream a little bit. The baseball program has won 3 national titles. It regularly makes the NCAA tournament. This stadium is home to one of the premier baseball programs in the Big Ten, if not the top dog historically. It doesn't even come close to Purdue or Indiana's new stadium and those are programs with far less pedigree. Purdue and Indiana have "dreamed" and basically "gone for it" regarding their baseball stadiums. Hope the additional fund raising arrives sooner rather than later and that the future improvements dramatically change the aura of this new stadium. The program deserves better than what they got. Finally, what is up with the huge white bubble dome beyond the center field fence? That is an eyesore. Is that thing permanent? I was really excited about the new stadium the Gopher program was having built. Glad they have one but it needs to be dramatically improved during phase 2.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 12:19 PM by SK Highlight this comment 34

Haha, sorry Stevie B.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 12:40 PM by jared Highlight this comment 35

SK-

That's the "UMN Dome". It's seasonal, so it'll come down when, err...if the weather warms up.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 1:44 PM by Chad Highlight this comment 36

Does anyone know when the new Vikings stadium schematic designs will be unveiled? Originally it was set for February than they pushed it back to March following the baseball configuration fiasco and eventually delayed again to April.

Well there are only two weeks left of April, has anyone heard of any scheduled unveilings?

I wonder if the delay has anything to do with the recent developments of the revenue shortfalls from the e-pull tabs?

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 2:52 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 37

I read yesterday that the Stadium Authority is targeting early May for a stadium design. But I also heard that they have some very large decisions still unmade (like whether they will go for a retractable roof or just windows).

It's hard to imagine much actual design-work taking place without such big decisions made, but there are a lot of details to be worked out, so maybe the overall aesthetics are being left for last.

Keep in mind that we did see some official schematics during the discussion about accommodating baseball. They looked somewhat generic, but were clearly more than just placeholders.

Right now, this is a race -- about which I will have more in the next couple of days.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 3:11 PM by Rick 38

In the meantime, here's something interesting on the subject.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 3:13 PM by Rick 39

Stevie B a goat roper definition?

noun
* A Western type person who may or may not be an actual cowboy

* A low-class Faux cowboy

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 3:50 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 40

I hate to be mr. blunt today on that last post of yours rick, but wow, that article sure states the obvious. Did we really need someone to pull actual stats on that? I have a hard time believing it was only obvious to me that retractable roofs were primarily going dormant and unopened. Frankly, as far as I am concerned it baffles my mind how any american stadium has gotten away with them included in financing after the first ones showed they were nearly rendered useless. Sorry if that is harsh but dang, really?

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 5:12 PM by jared Highlight this comment 41

It may be obvious to you and many others, Jared (including me), but obviously there are still people clamoring for the inclusion of a retractable roof here in MN.

I get it - we don't want to go indoors if the weather is nice (and some don't care what the elements bring). But either build it open air or put a roof on it. Don't spend all that extra $ to build a (mostly) unused feature.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 5:19 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 42

A retractable dome would allow the new stadium to host international soccer. The World Cup requires real grass and open air stadia.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 5:51 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 43

I'm certainly not a soccer fan; I'm just suggesting a possible reason for the interest by some in a retractable roof.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 5:56 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 44

Two things:

1. There's no way that the Vikings stadium will have a retractable roof. All along they've said "retractable feature" -- meaning windows. Their real risk right now is that, since they keep saying that they still haven't decided, some people are going to have their hopes dashed.

(I also thought that article was slight, Jared, but the point is: This decision is so obvious it's amazing that anyone thinks otherwise. )

2. I hear that professional soccer will probably never be played in the new Viking stadium because the two ownership groups hate each other, and the law is written in such a way that the Vikings would get a whole lot of control and income that soccer would never give up. I also hear that there may already be a site agreed upon for a new 15,000-seat outdoor soccer stadium.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 6:31 PM by Rick 45

Rick, would that be the new Farmers Market site plan for a soccer stadium.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 6:57 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 46

I hear ya Stevie B. Just venting a bit I guess.

Winona- Interesting. Real grass makes sense. Why would they require open air stadia?

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 7:25 PM by jared Highlight this comment 47

Not sure Jared. In fact, after some thought, I'm not completely certain about the roof thing. I do know that the Olympics have such requirements.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 9:02 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 48

I am also not sure about open air for international soccer (FIFA), however tge natural grass is true.
In 1994 when the World Cup was in the US, first round games were held at the Silverdome. They grew natural grass on octagonal trays then installed them inside the Dome.

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 9:57 PM by luke Highlight this comment 49

What song do the twins play after hitting a homerun? Also, where can find an mp3 of the We're gonna Win Twins song that is played at the games?

Posted on April 16, 2013 at 10:53 PM by Josh Highlight this comment 50

Indeed they did, Luke. After doing a little digging, I find that I'm all wet.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 03:32 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 51

Not to turn this to a soccer discussion, but does anyone here plan on seeing Minnesota United FC in action? I guess they are playing games at the Dome. I might go just to pay my last respects to the old place.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 06:39 AM by luke Highlight this comment 52

A little something added to the Ben Revere DP story. *clicky* Man, I miss that guy.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 08:02 AM by schweady Highlight this comment 53

Has anyone tried the new "Upgrade Seats" feature on the MLB At The Ballpark app? Last night I tried it out and found it VERY confusing.

Upgrade options are not available until 1 hour before game time. Then the areas are shown as "Home Plate" "1st Base" etc, not as individual sections. Then you're given a price, however they never ask where your current seats are. I was in LC last night and thought if I could free exchange down to the Home Plate Box or pay a little to be in the Dugout Box, I would do it. It was asking for ~$10 for HPB and ~$6-7 for Diamond Box. No way, not from LC.

BUT if I had a $8 cheap seat, I would definitely pay those upgrade prices.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 08:42 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 54

I made Ben Revere my favorite Twin last year and I'm having trouble letting go. And as much as I appreciate moving someone at the peak of his value, I have this sneaking suspicion that Revere's peak is still a ways off.

And while watching Florimon pick up Plouffe's booted ball to end the game last night was certainly exciting, the Twins would do well to hold on to exciting players. That's a quality that winning teams need and you can't really teach.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 10:52 AM by Rick 55

Anyone know why FS-North switched over to the LA Angels feed last night?

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 11:12 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 56

"Anyone know why FS-North switched over to the LA Angels feed last night?"

DickBert contract timewise?

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 11:21 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 57

I'm not sure what you're talking about in terms of feeds. DickBert finished the game online without any interruption.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 11:41 AM by Rick 58

Rick ---

Long about inning 8.5, about 3.5 hours into the game, the audio on the tube was no longer DickBert. No mention of issues or anything, just switched over.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 11:45 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 59

Well the 5-6-3 putout to end the game was certainly a nice play by Florimon, but he booted two big plays earlier in the game that stretched out innings - bobbled a double play relay, then failed to throw to second on a deep hit to get a runner. But he makes the fantastic play to end the game and all is silent about the earlier innings. Search florimon on twitter if you want to see a man go from goat to hero in the span of several dozen tweets.

BUT what I really wanted to mention, speaking of goats, is that a companion and I sampled the famous lamb/goat burger at the park last night and it's very good. Nice flavor, with a bit of grilled onion and red pepper on top and some tasty chips. Mmmmmm.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 11:45 AM by ClarkAddison Highlight this comment 60

The MLS provision with the new Vikings stadium was absurd. MLS' model is to put teams into soccer specific stadiums that hold around 20,000. Those smaller stadiums mean greater ticket scarcity and better atmosphere. Of the four teams left in large football stadiums, DC and New England desperately want new parks, Vancouver has a unique system of creating an inner roof of sorts to create a better setting, and Seattle was a compromise to get Paul Allen of Microsoft as an owner with the team then drawing beyond anyone's expectations.

I just don't see this area as prime MLS country. None of the various minor league teams have drawn at all and it's that missing groundswell of support that helped launch the successful Seattle, Portland, and Montreal teams. I'd even hesitate to build something for the new minor league team given the abject level of support that team receives, regardless of incarnation.

Whatever the Vikings stadium design looks like, people will be disappointed. If it's a fixed roof many will be letdown. Others will complain a retractable roof is unnecessary. Depending on what we get, many will either complain the design is not innovative enough or it may be too avant garde for others. Will it tie well enough into the neighborhood? My sincere hope is they build a stadium for 2030 instead of 2015, so we get something that doesn't feel dated from day one. Generic as the schematics may have seemed, HKS did good work in Dallas and Indy with two very different stadiums.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 11:46 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 61

Did the Angels crew ever acknowledge that they were calling the game for a Twins audience? Was it only the audio or video too?

Something similar happened with a broadcast last year in St. Louis of a game between the Cardinals and the Padres. The Fox Sports Midwest feed got cut off somehow, so the St. Louis audience got switched over to the Fox Sports San Diego feed, both audio and video. Padres announcer Dick Enberg made a point to welcome the unexpected audience in the Midwest. After a few innings, the problem was solved and the Fox Sports Midwest broadcast resumed.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 11:51 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 62

Weird. But the audio thing did not happen online. It was DickBert the whole time.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 11:55 AM by Rick 63

Jorge,

I agree that this is not MLS country, but it represents an expansion opportunity that is certainly worth exploring if you are the MLS. So in that way it looks sort of inevitable.

HKS's track record is what it is. Personally, I think that the site plans in both Dallas and Indy are pretty lousy isolated/disconnected islands. The Indy facility itself is certainly a success, and Dallas, well, they got what they asked for.

And that's what matters: The wild card is the Wilfs. These stadium designers are generally only as good as their collaborators, and the Wilfs have shown less than zero in terms of vision and taste so far. This is based on the concept renderings they commissioned, which were without even the slightest whiff of imagination. (The ideas brought forth by architects during the bidding for the contract were their own and had nothing to do with what the Vikings would or would not desire.)

As such, my expectations for the design are set pretty low. So low, in fact, that I think I'm unlikely to be disappointed no matter what they bring forth.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 12:06 PM by Rick 64

I agree with you about Ben Revere Rick. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been thinking "Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio" ever since the trade was announced.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 12:33 PM by terry Highlight this comment 65

I didn't recall the Angels crew making any announcement. It looked like the Angels' video feed (I think the scoreboard supers said "Angels Baseball"), but the FSN TWINS icon was still in the top right corner of the screen. I'll leave it to others to speculate on the meaning of that pattern....

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 66

The stadiums in Dallas and Indianapolis are islands, but looking at the sites, it's difficult to say what could have otherwise happened.

Cowboys Stadium is set in a suburban area with chain stores and chain restaurants as neighbors. The team ultimately wants the fans on its property and in its stadium spending money with little regard for the neighbors. For its part, Arlington is playing along figuring what the area lacks in cohesiveness, it makes up for in development (chain stores, chain restaurants, chain hotels) and generates tax dollars. Not everyone is a fan of the stadium's Death Star look, but I like the fact that it looks like nothing else. When you see it, you know where you are. Plus it's a stadium that will age well from a fan comfort/amenities standpoint.

With Lucas Oil Stadium, it was important for Indianapolis that the stadium end up adjacent to the convention center and in proximity to the substantial number of hotels servicing that facility. The site of the RCA Dome would have linked the new stadium nicely into downtown, but that land was coveted for expanding the convention center and even if available, would have required the Colts to spend at least a season at Purdue. So the stadium wound up behind the convention center in a spot near the minor league ballpark, but generally lacking development potential and isolated from the rest of downtown.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 1:20 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 67

Ben Revere is an exciting ball player, with some clearly plus skills (paricularly on defense). But the Twins werfe dealing from an organizational strength (OFs, particularly CFs) to shore up an organizational weakness (SPs, particularly hard throwing SPs). Make a ton of sense to me.

And before we start comparing revere to HoFers, it's probably wise to note that he's still just a .318/.318, sub-.650 OBP guy in the majors to date. Lots of speed, but no power, and likely never will have any. Brock hit 20+ HRs one year. That could end up besting Ben's career total.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 2:33 PM by BR Highlight this comment 68

Dang typos. "Sub-.650" OPS guy. I'd probably take a guy with a .500 OBP and GG caliber defense. ;)

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 2:51 PM by BR Highlight this comment 69

I'm not saying Revere will have a HOF career. Only that whenever you trade a young guy with "a tremendous upside", to use one of those obnoxiously over-used Mel Kiper-isms, it is a possibility. When Brock was traded he had "a tremendous upside", but he had not yet developed into the player he would become. He was only about a .250 career hitter at the time of the trade.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 3:00 PM by terry Highlight this comment 70

Not happy about paying the lot attendant to park, only to find out they took our money and ran in the 8 minutes it took us to walk from the lot to the ford building and back. It was only $5 but what a travashamockery.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 7:37 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 71

Sprang for the A ramp...after the postponement they let us out without turning in the card. We can now hold onto that card and use it for the rescheduled game without having to pay again....

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 8:37 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 72

Re the earlier global warming discussion and Rick's admonishment to confine the ignorant comments to baseball, if anyone is interested in some intelligent commentary on baseball and climate change, as well as election and weather forecasting, markets, gambling, chess and computers, terror risk assessment, basketball, and much more, check out Nate Silver's "The signal and the noise: why so many predictions fail - but some don't".
While I agree that the "where is global warming" jokes when weather is cold, are either ignorant or lame; if we take him at his word, Luke read the articles linked by Rick (I didn't). I don't think many people deliberately take the time and effort to read something they are predisposed to disagree with.

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 8:40 PM by robin Highlight this comment 73

Robin, the idea of global "warming" has me a bit distressed.
Now, climate "change" is a bit more accurate.
BTW, I am very much an Evolutionist-Master Darwin is my hero. BUT being a man of science, I can find merit on BOTH sides of MOST issues :) In other words, I am not "predisposed" to disagree necessarily, but I suppose you could say I am "predisposed" to question .

Posted on April 17, 2013 at 9:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 74

Fair enough. I probably didn't use the term quite right. For example, when government declares war on certain concepts or substances, such as poverty, drugs, terrorism (non-governmental), bullying (non-governmental), etc., I may be predisposed to disagree, but hopefully due to skepticism based on prior observations, pattern recognitions, etc. But it would not be wise to refuse to listen to their argument, or assume I must be right in disagreeing with a future "war."
You might be interested in this item from the Silver book: "Decades of historical data show that when the [National] Weather Service says there is a 1 in 10 chance of rain, it really does rain about 10% of the time over the long run.{I haven't read enough to know what the 'long run' means.} This property is true of National Weather Service forecasts--but not of your local TV meteorologist. Their incentive may be to exaggerate the probability of rain for the sake of better ratings."
Silver, incidentally, is a co-creator of PECOTA, the baseball statistical system used by Baseball Prospectus.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 11:25 AM by robin Highlight this comment 75

Funny how the Twins are complaining about lack of home games in July but yet they are the ones that want the summer concert at Target Field in July.

If you want more home games from Memorial Day thru Labor Day, than don't have those summer ballpark concerts.

Can't have it both ways, in order to accommodate that summer concert you so desire, you need to sacrifice some of those summer home games.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 11:58 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 76

Same thing with the HS baseball championships, they don't need to be played at TF. That is one summer weekend you could be playing at home.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 12:00 PM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 77

Mike you are correct the goat roping or any concerts at TF are just plain stupid. Maybe the Twinks will finally get it right. Have those silly concerts over at the Bank. Can't wreck that already pathetic looking field anymore anyways. Although you can bet the Queens will pay to get new turf and heaters installed soon over there.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 12:13 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 78

To be fair, we do not know what the Twins requested for scheduling. It seems very unlikely that they would have requested what they got, given how terrible it is.

More likely, by adding these events they are attempting to make lemonade.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 12:19 PM by Rick 79

If Luke and Twinkfan joined forces and had a daily podcast, I would listen to it every day.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 1:18 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 80

I bet old Larry Boy wishes there were no more concerts! Course maybe old Larry will rip the entire field up after the concert this July and replace it with some half azz Minnesota turf?? Larry has to be crying looking out his window at the way the field looks now.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 1:41 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 81

I am going to be a little blunt (not personal against Robin and not directed at Robin, "you" being a general term) again for a second on the 10% weather stat: that's pretty much a duh statement but people forget it. And people say they will never need to remember that math? That's why those percentages are given. Out of 10 days with similar conditions, it will rain 1 in 10 of those days, 10%. All 'long run' means is a decent sample size of conditions similar to the conditions of that day. Its basic statistics class. 10 days isnt a representative sample. 20? meh. 30, okay. 40 or 50 should be a good starting sample. more than that would be best. Decades is plenty. We not only have decades worth of historical data, we have over 100 years worth of usable data. Of course observations have been taken for thousands of years to some degree though. And the extent and detail of observations 100+ years ago was far less.

TV is a different animal than NWS. It's entertainment and verification isn't as high of a priority. I am not saying their standards are more loose, per se, the NWS just has more reasons to have a higher verification rate. The TV stations I have experience with gave no incentive for a meteorologist to dramatize their forecasts for ratings. Matter of fact primary during sweeps weeks, they highly produce weather packages to generate ratings but that is part of the whole aura of sweeps. These packages however are not exaggerated forecasts but stories about local weather to increase awareness, historical weather, significant events, etc...if that makes sense. Think ESPN 30 for 30 type stuff, just not as highly produced. They will spice up those stories by throwing in factual data but it isn't made up information. So to that extent the drama is added.

On any other week though, I am hard pressed to find any TV meteorologist that I am connected to that will try to add anything to their forecast to create drama. Well, other than wacky inflatable tube man antics, similar to those of that coked out weather guy from South Carolina or wherever that was just to get people to watch their boring weekly 'sunny and 75' 7-day forecasts. There is a difference between dramatizing your forecasted numbers and dramatizing the weather segment to keep ratings up, not sure if that explains it well.

There are the exceptions like Paul Douglas but were I still in the industry today I would have a similar albeit slightly less stance as Paul. That makes perfect sense in my head if the writing isn't exactly translating in all of yours.

The idea is to create awareness for a situation not incite fear and panic. As a forecaster I would rather say "there is a potential for up to 10 inches of snow and only have 3-4 inches verify" or "widespread lightning, hail, downbursts, frequent tornadoes" and have you be prepared for potential danger than say "just a sprinkle of rain" and then actually have widespread tornadoes without anyone being aware. Its just stupid to go that route. It is our job to prepare you by informing you of what could be.

At the end of the day, does a few degrees short of a forecasted high on a day when clouds linger a little longer and hold down the temp really make a difference to you? Does 6 instead of 10 inches of snow really make a difference to you? Other than having to wear your jacket a little longer or a little smaller snow drift in your driveway, it doesn't. It just doesn't. Chaos (butterfly effect) in such a complex system can produce 10 inches and we are letting you know that is a possibility. The snow is still coming, its more than a dusting, it will make for a crappy commute and you will have to shovel and your back will still hurt from shoveling. But at least you were prepared for the situation and what can happen. The people that extra 4 inches really matters to, pay a private firm to keep them in the loop (it seems) every second of the day. A missed forecast on a severe storm can be a matter of life and death and while they are almost always well forecasted, i don't know anyone that would want to make it seem worse than it really is, just for ratings.

It annoys the hell out of me and most mets i know when people get nit picky about forecast verification but I don't mind it. I generally have little sympathy for "most" people who say they were unaware of a particular weather situation. For instance the many, many people I saw who showed up to the two games I have attended this year in low 30 degree, windy or rainy weather with nothing more than a pair of jeans and a zip up hoodie/lightish jacket. Weather affects our everyday lives in nearly every way. It's watercooler talk everyday at the office. Technology now not only gives you access to conditions nearly anywhere, anytime but also alerts you in event you need to take action (weather radios and mobile apps) AND it can also offer support when you are stranded by weather (there is a great app called Winter Survival Kit, download it now). So in most circumstances there is no excuse for unpreparedness.

Whoa, big tangent. long post. sorry.

Note: don't read this as a nasty retort. Honestly, its from a lighthearted, informative mindset of my experience.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 1:55 PM by jared Highlight this comment 82

Great day for outdoor baseball!

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 2:03 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 83

Robin, thanks for the recommendation. I started reading that book last night and found it fascinating and very well-written. (Love that I can do this via Kindle! I hear that they used to sell books in actual stores. Imagine that!)

Here's the very brief passage about weather forecasting that has been referenced. Note that it is in the middle of a discussion about how bond rating companies could have been so wrong about the relative safety of certain investment instruments prior to the big crash in 2008:

"When you make a prediction that goes badly, you have a choice of how to explain it. One path is to blame external circumstances--what we might think of as 'bad luck.' Sometimes this is a reasonable choice, or even the correct one. When the National Weather Service says there is a 90 percent chance of clear skies, but it rains instead and spoils your golf outing, you can't really blame them. Decades of historical data show that when the Weather Service says there is a 1 in 10 chance of rain, it really does rain about 10 percent of the time over the long run.

"This explanation becomes less credible, however, when the forecaster does not have a history of successful predictions and when the magnitude of his error is larger. In these cases, it is much more likely that the fault lies with the forecaster's model of the world and not with the world itself."

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 2:18 PM by Rick 84

My baseball team is now o for 6 on scheduled games being played. My team has been practicing for a month now and we have yet to be on an actual baseball field. Worst spring ever!

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 2:27 PM by ole Highlight this comment 85

Now the Tornado sirens are wailing??? Ajax White Tornado??? LOL! How bout those poor High School teams playing a schedule this year?? Will be no practice all games!

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 2:30 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 86

And Jared's point is proven. Not only are some people unprepared for weather conditions, some are unaware of scheduled and widely-publicized weather preparedness drills...

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM by Rick 87

Does it matter to me if we get 6 inches of snow vs. 10 inches? Yes it does, especially at this time of year. Let me be clear I HATE winter. I hate it in the way the most devoted Vikings fan hates the Packers. However, work and family ties keep me rooted to this area. I'm stuck.

We're having one of the worst springs not only in my memory, but I believe in recorded history. We're getting a legitimately heavy snowfall event on April 18-19 that will likely still be on the ground when May arrives. The potential 70 degree plus days that were projected for the weekend following this upcoming one have already been downgraded to the upper 50s in part by the likelihood of snow still being on the ground and cooling the air. I believe we're on track to have the latest "first recorded 60 degree day" ever in the Twin Cities. Projections also say we'll have, if we're lucky, a single day above 60 this entire month which would be no better than a tie for the fewest, if not the fewest outright. It was 63 degrees a year ago today. This weather is eating away at my soul and sanity.

I don't blame the forecasters. They don't create the weather. However, Ian Leonard of KMSP is so smug he's literally unwatchable and Belinda Jensen has worn me out with the "aw shucks" routine she's been working this month. I realize it's all showbiz, but it's to the point now that it's impossible to watch these routines until at least the news being provided gets worse.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 4:23 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 88

Gets better! I'm so depresed over the weather I can neither type or proofread correctly.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 4:33 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 89

TTH- Something to shoot for! Lol.
Hlwever, I am starting to think about doing an online satirical cartoon...:)

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 5:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 90

Does it matter to you Jorge, especially because you hate winter? Of course. But my point was does it [i]make a difference[\i]? Do you really truly notice the extra 4 inches of snow, 1/4 inch of rain, 10 mph wind, 3 degrees warmer/colder? To the vast majority, it doesn't and they don't. But I get your point. If you hate winter, any snow amount is awful.

I stand with you on your analysis of some of the TV personalities. Hard to watch. I rarely watch the news in general and barely watch a weather segment unless its a cut in during severe weather in the summer. That's when its fun for me, mostly because they have access to radars/data that I can't get without an obnoxiously high (last I checked) monthly subscription. So it's my moment to geek out for a bit.

I must be as tired and depressed with winter as you because I actually read your initial post as you meant and not what you wrote. Sigh. Spring can come anytime now.

Posted on April 18, 2013 at 6:33 PM by jared Highlight this comment 91

The H*ll with Spring! Who needs it? Bring on summer!!!!!! Hope Larry boy can get that snow covered mess ready by Monday! Gonna be a lot of lost revenue for the boys this year! Do we hit 2 million this year?

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 08:55 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 92

Jared, no offense taken, none meant.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 10:35 AM by robin Highlight this comment 93

Did I hear that tonights game in Chicago is postponed??

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 12:39 PM by luke Highlight this comment 94

None taken here either.

It appears you heard right Luke.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 12:56 PM by jared Highlight this comment 95

I have a cousin that lives near Chicago, said it rained 9 inches there.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 1:59 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 96

Here's my final comment on weather misery. Then I'm done in order to keep what's left of my mind. Next weekend, originally forecasted with temps in the 70s and then downgraded to the upper 50s, has been downgraded further to temps in the low 50s. It might even snow a bit on Saturday April 27. Monday April 29 is the only day this month projected to be above 60, the latest "first 60" ever in these parts. If the temp fails to break 60 that day, we'll leave April without a 60 degree day for the time in Twin Cities weather history.

Irrationals as this may seem, I consider this type of weather not just inconvenient or disappointing, but infuriating and insulting. I've learned in life to let go of ill feelings towards things beyond my control, but this awful spring is breaking that rule. The worst part is that we don't get extra nice days in September and October, or even November, to make up for this. Fall will kill Summer on schedule just like always.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 2:30 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 97

Jorge, you ready for some May snowfall? Maybe we will set a record for that month: Historic May Snowstorms

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 3:08 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 98

"Did I hear that tonights game in Chicago is postponed??"
I keep telling folks that there ought to be a retractable roof on U.S. Cellular Field. Do they listen. No!

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 3:28 PM by schweady Highlight this comment 99

Jorge, I think the weather is getting to all of us. Between all of my friends, social media sites, forums, etc... EVERYONE seems to be hitting the breaking point. Can we put M-SP on wheels and head south to warmer weather??? Let's go!

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 3:31 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 100

Keep your dobber up Jorge. The snow will melt in a week or so. This is looking very much like 1965. Massive flooding followed by maybe tornadoes??? Hey we went to the world series in 65 also!

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 101

I gotta say that right now I'm longing for last week, when all that was getting me down was the weather.

Since then the world has apparently turned into a f-ing Quentin Tarantino movie, and there's not even Twins baseball to help us feel normal.

I feel like Uma Thurman could ring my doorbell and offer to seduce me at any moment. At first I'll be happy, then she'll snap my neck. Then some Russian guys will use a fertilizer & pressure cooker bomb to blow up my house. Then they'll all dance in my yard, together with the NRA, to the coolest soundtrack ever.

(Hmm. I might pay to see that flick.)

I don't mean to make light of anything that has happened. It's horrible. All of it. Just horrible. And I'm probably just delirious from the longest and most tiring snow shoveling of the year. I may have to resort to watching whatever baseball game is being played tonight, even if it's Royals and Astros.

Wait. I'm not that bummed, I don't think.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 4:38 PM by Rick 102

Strasburg v. Harvey tonight Rick. Even without the Twins baseball season never disappoints.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 4:51 PM by jp Highlight this comment 103

Schweady-that very issue was the topic of todays installment of Neighboring States my new online satirical cartoon.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 7:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 104

It's been a very difficult week. We need sun and green grass and not just on fields with underground heating and we need baseball. We all need a respite from the ugliness of this week.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 9:58 PM by terry Highlight this comment 105

Doesn't look like that's coming next week either.

NHL Hockey Winter Classic at Target Field in 2015.

Posted on April 19, 2013 at 10:52 PM by antifire Highlight this comment 106

David Ortiz spoke to the Fenway crowd before today's game: "This is our fucking city."

Posted on April 20, 2013 at 3:55 PM by Rick 107

Classy.

Posted on April 20, 2013 at 4:30 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 108

I thought it was a nice, impromptu speech. The crowd loved it.

Posted on April 20, 2013 at 6:08 PM by luke Highlight this comment 109

Well, Hicks is now batting Jackie Robinson's number. Aside from a hot Joe Mauer and (gasp!) Florimon, the rest of this team isn't hitting well. What's the over/under on number of games this season the Twins score 10 or more runs?

Posted on April 20, 2013 at 6:42 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 110

Apparently, over/under should be set at however many times they play the Astros.

Posted on April 20, 2013 at 9:29 PM by N.D. (aka N.D. "Rube") Highlight this comment 111

Fourteen games and three snow-outs do not a season make, but it is good to see them win some games even when they are getting no hitting. Could you imagine that happening last year?

Posted on April 21, 2013 at 08:58 AM by terry Highlight this comment 112

Really? Mauer isn't catching today? 4th game of the week, and he can't catch today? Not even day game after night game.

Posted on April 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM by antifire Highlight this comment 113

OK, dont scare it away...but two sources now (Weather Channel and Star Trib) are pointing at upper 60s maybe low 70s for Saturday.
Looks like this demon of winter bullshit might finally be exorcised from Minnesota.

Posted on April 21, 2013 at 4:40 PM by luke Highlight this comment 114

Not quite. Another 1 to 3 inches of snow tomorrow night/early Tuesday according to most forecasts although WCCO says it could be 3 to 7. If we get enough and the snow pack cools the air, next weekend will be more like upper 50s to low 60s. Some folks will be partying like it's an 80 degree day in July if we make it to 60, but I just can't. I just can't do it. The average high temp for this time of year is about 63. Until we're meeting that with regularity and occasionally topping it, or whatever the average rises to as we go along, I'm not going to even pretend to be happy.

Posted on April 21, 2013 at 10:41 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 115

Jorge raises a good point.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 06:09 AM by luke Highlight this comment 116

Well at least there is a good chance it is another round of thunder-snow, which is exciting (probably mostly for just me and my weather geek friends) but will no doubt confuse more Minnesotan's about the weather.

Linky

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 07:32 AM by jared Highlight this comment 117

Well its a no brainer they cancel todays game! If we get 5 inches might be tough to get the game in tomorrow also! I see both teams are off on wed. Maybe a day night doubleheader?

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 08:25 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 118

Saturday... sunny and 66 degrees? Jorge and luke may remain hunkered down together somewhere, but I will be happy. We have a taproom tour on the calendar with up to 10 options mapped out to explore. I may dance.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 08:44 AM by schweady Highlight this comment 119

DSP says Wednesday is not an option due to the Marlins' schedule. I think they move tonight's game to tomorrow for a day/night doubleheader. If we get too much snow they could end up delaying the 1st and make it a true DH with 3-4pm start. Allowing all fans to come to both games. That would be fun... maybe?

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 09:24 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 120

I just bought myself a ticket for Friday's game against Texas, if the weather is in the 60s I will definitely be happy.

I might still wear my winter coat to the game, though....

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 09:28 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 121

Not sure why the marlins would have a problem with playing wed. They host the cubs at home the next day but big deal! So they got to fly all night whats so tough about that? And it's not like they are playing an afternoon game on Thursday!

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 09:39 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 122

from DSP (@TwinsPrez): "Wed not an option as Miami would be playing 27 straight days RT@TwinsGeek: Is Wed also an option? Seems like both teams have that day free?"

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 09:51 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 123

I show the Marlins had the 2nd and the 11th off this month! Plus they will get today and tomorrow off to boot! St Peter must not be too good with math. Big deal! Make em play! I mean they are 4-15 with old Redman at the helm! LOL!

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 10:04 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 124

yeah, I hadn't looked at their schedule. I took DSP's word. The math doesn't make sense. Especially since they have another off day May 9. Who knows... I still think we end up with 2 games on Tuesday.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 10:31 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 125

June 24th makes sense as a reschedule date. Both teams have the day off, and the Twins are playing Miami the 25th and 26th in Mia, so neither team will have a travel disadvantage.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 12:14 PM by jp Highlight this comment 126

Summer will get her revenge. And when she does I will laugh my head off. I hope MN burns to a crisp.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 1:08 PM by luke Highlight this comment 127

Well they called the game today and have a split doubleheader starting @ 1:10PM tomorrow. The game for tonight will be played tomorrow night @ 7pm . Be interesting depending on how much snow they get if they can get the place ready by tomorrow afternoons game. What a mess! Load up on some Holiday brats to keep your hands warm!

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 1:27 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 128

Tonight's game postponed - planning a split DH for Tuesday at 1:00 & 7:00. Clicky

If we truly get 4-6" of white stuff tonight it will take an incredible effort by the grounds crew to get ready for an afternoon game.

They should have a sled giveaway day this year.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 1:27 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 129

Sadly luke, that is the way Mother Nature works. It's all about balancing the heat/moisture budget. We didn't have the coldest of winters but the delay of spring/summer will have it's effect. The Climate Prediction Center 90 day outlook verifies that sentiment. Looks like it could be extra rough in the Desert Southwest this summer, particularly in New Mexico.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 1:58 PM by jared Highlight this comment 130

Jared,

Surely you're not saying that it works like something out of Greek mythology -- which is the way Luke makes it sound:

"...and Boreas laughed at Apollo, who swore that he would have his revenge on the city of laughing waters!"

Ah, mythology. There was no problem that you couldn't make up an irrational explanation for.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 2:14 PM by Rick 131

Hey, I'll take mid 60s and low 70s on Friday and Saturday but can't see how that's possible if we get 4 to 8 inches of snow tonight. If that comes to pass, figure on the meteorologists to suddenly take the forecasts to the upper 50s. I'll gladly be wrong and will plead guilty to all charges of pessimism. Understand though, there's little reason for anything else on the weather front this spring.

If anyone wants a faint, silver lining, after the debacle of so many postponements so far this season, I highly doubt MLB loads up the Twins with so many April games next season.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 2:16 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 132

Ah, but Jorge, you're assuming that MLB makes such decisions rationally, which I think it's clear that they do not...

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 2:20 PM by Rick 133

Well get rid of the goat roping concerts in July then! Send em over to the Bank. That would make poor old Larry Boy happy anyways!

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 2:37 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 134

Best drainage system of all ballparks, yet they can't play in a little rain? Seems like they wasted their money on that drainage system if it doesn't allow them to play in the rain. Even if it snows, field is heated and snow will melt. I would think that only weather that makes it hard seeing the ball, like a downpour or heavy snow, would keep them from playing.

Maybe they just wanted that great drainage system so they could power wash the snow off the seats.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 135

Was a no brainer to cancel tonight. Just look at the current radar. Man next 2 days don't look to good either.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 3:12 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 136

The drainage system was never intended to facilitate play in the rain. Its purpose is to allow play even if a heavy rain occurred earlier in the day - a highly valuable function.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 3:20 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 137

Nobody's ever going to admit this, but the cold is also a factor.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the cancellations in the history of Target Field have been about the draining and/or heating of the field.

If you look at the radar, it's obvious that they can't even start tonight's game. It was a good call.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 3:22 PM by Rick 138

Haha, greek tragedy, this is not. but when highs are high, they are usually followed very closely by some low lows.

Ah, but Jorge trust me, those temps are very possible after getting snow today. And it goes back to what I said above. Balance the "heat budget" as my professor would always say. There is no better example than in the leeward side of the Rockies. Frequently they will start off on one side of a Low pressure system get snow-dumped on, followed by bitter cold only to end up on the other side of the Low with sunny skies and 70 degree temps and vice versa with the next passing Low. Now we obviously aren't butted up against some tall mountains but the "heat return" (as it's called) is similarly dramatic here, especially this time of year. It can be tough to forecast the true high for saturday. As conditions change elsewhere around the globe, the low may stall out and stop or even move westward (back towards us), the heat return may slow, quicker than expected or the next system may sweep in faster. This is why you see the temp jump say from 74 to 63 (as it did this week). But in any case the heat return will happen.

Dave, this won't be "a little rain" at game time. As fast as the snow is forecasted to come down as early as first pitch, there isn't a turf heating system on earth that could melt that heavy wet amount of snow fast enough. 1-2 inches per hour is a pretty awesome clip of snow. It would be extremely difficult to pickup the baseball in that kind of snow in the majority of locations on the field. Now if we stay on the warm side of the front, long enough, the precip will stay as rain longer. But should we end up on the cold, snow side sooner? As Jorge would probably say "harrumph" or "bah-humbug", but not in such nice terms.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 3:38 PM by jared Highlight this comment 139

PS, i linked the Wiki article on thundersnow in the previous post. It's funny that it says a "rare event" (which it generally is compared to the overall number of snow events) but with the alignment and conditions of passing systems this season alone we have had like 2 or 3 at least that I am aware of.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 3:43 PM by jared Highlight this comment 140

Jared, I truly hope you're right about the heat balance this coming weekend. My earlier statement goes back to the last time or two this spring when temps in the 60s and even low 70s got severely downgraded to low 50s by big snowfalls. Of course past performance isn't always indicative of future results, so hopefully this is winter's last gasp. That we're having this discussion April 22 is bad enough. The sunshine and low 40s this morning would have been great had it been March 22. When all this weather madness ends, I'll quietly and gladly return to discussing stadiums.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 4:51 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 141

jared - in case you haven't noticed, we are NOT New Mexico, nor are we the desert southwest.
Rick - loved, LOVED the mythology reference. Next to Darwin' teachings on Evolution, Greek mythology is one of my favorite subjects.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 142

I am with ya Jorge, I am with ya.

Wait, Luke, you mean to tell me New Mexico isn't on the other side of South Dakota? Ya know, next to Iowa, north of kansas, east of Colorado? That's not the desert southwest? There is land past that? Is this one of those Christopher Colombo discoveries? Are you Christopher Colombo? Is this real life? Are you serious?

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 5:30 PM by jared Highlight this comment 143

Dude, this is Minnesota - why should we be concerned about how "rough" it is in New Mexico or the desert southwest?

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 6:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 144

Oh, you know, you're right. Outside of Luke's existence there is nothing and shall be nothing, so goes the word of Luke.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 8:07 PM by jared Highlight this comment 145

So, the desert has a dry summer. Dont they usually? I mean, it IS a desert you speak of, right? :/ its a very simple concept really...MN is not a desert...lol.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 8:32 PM by luke Highlight this comment 146

So, who is going to have more snow-outs this season? The Tiwins or the Rockies?
I wonder if a visiting team (hello Mets) has ever had two snow outs in two different cities before?

MLB really needs to shorten the season on both ends, but I suspect that will never happen.

Posted on April 22, 2013 at 11:48 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 147

Good questions jfh. And on shortening the season...I am torn. What we have seen in the last week is the exception, not the rule...but, for those instances, it is nice to have a bit more wiggle room to reschedule.
DOUBLEHEADER today!

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 06:50 AM by luke Highlight this comment 148

The weather this spring in Minnesota is an aberration, but nevertheless JFH is right. The season starts too early and ends too late. The powers that be want the extra revenue so they are willing to start the season in March and play the World Series in November. It may be good for the owners and TV networks, but it is not good for the game.

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 06:56 AM by terry Highlight this comment 149

Do the boys hit 5 digits for attendance at todays noon game? Gonna be a ghost town in there. What do you think the number of no shows is this year for people that actually have tickets to games??? Gotta be up there. Bring you snowmobile suit man! Hope its 60 by May 31st my first game of the year! LOL!

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 09:23 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 150

I will let you know, going to both games.

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 09:56 AM by Duffman Highlight this comment 151

Baseball should go back to the 155 game schedule to knock off two weeks. Start the 2nd week of April and finish the 3rd week of September. World Series could be completed by October 21. Either schedule more doubleheaders or cut back on some of the divisional games. Do we really need to play CHW/CLE/DET/KC 19 times each? With expanded playoffs and expanded interleague, it's safe to say divisional games no longer are as significant as they once were.

The only reason MLB pushed for expanded playoffs and keeps pushing the unbalanced schedule is for those Red Sox-Yankees games. Sad but true. Any way to get both teams into the postseason and any way to get those Red Sox-Yankees games on FOX and ESPN.

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 10:01 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 152

Just sold 4 tix in sec 214 for $10 total to a scalper. That was by far the best offer i got. I got 5 "dont want to buy them" and one $1 a piece, this was right about noon and there is no crowd around Target Field right now

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 12:34 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 153

As far as schedule goes, here is what i have been saying it should be for the last 10 years...

15 teams each League (finally accomplished)

one 3 game series against everyone in the other League ( 15 teams minus your rival) = 42 games

6 games vs rival

two 3 game series against everyone in your league, not in your division
= 60 games

that makes 108 total games so far, to play your 4 division opponents equally, you could make it 13 games vs each division opponent and that would be 52 games, making it a 160 game season.. and a near balanced schedule for everyone.

Thoughts?

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 12:41 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 154

I like. Submit it to MLB. Of course now with MLB Network, they wouldn't do that...they want the TV money.

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 155

I know that teams hate double-headers, but you could cut three weeks off the season just by playing two games every Saturday (23 weeks instead of 26). I know that'll never happen.

In fact, nothing is probably going to change. Ever.

Any proposal which includes reducing the number of games played overall (say, from 162 to 154) probably won't fly because teams count on that revenue. Reducing off-days won't work because of union rules. Getting rid of the extra days during the All-Star break also seems like a non-starter. Confining early- and late-season games to roofed stadiums and warmer climates screws up revenue balances.

There's basically no way out of this one, short of fundamentally changing how revenue is shared within the sport -- and we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon.

But really, all of the hand-wringing may really be for naught. Michael Rand has some interesting stats on postponements in today's Strib:

- In the first three years of Target Field, the Twins played 243 home games and had only five games postponed by weather.

- In 21 seasons at Met Stadium, the Twins averaged about four weather postponements per year.

(Together, these two stats suggest that 2013 is potentially nothing more than a regression to the mean.)

- All-time, the Twins have had 29 April home games postponed by weather.

- All-time, the Twins have had 22 May home games postponed by weather.

- In 24 outdoor seasons, the Twins have had 38 home games postponed in June, July, August and September combined.

- The Twins have NEVER had a postponement in July, August or September at Target Field.

We probably just have to wait until the weather agrees with us.

(I think you might have a very different discussion if you counted up days when the temperature was such that the level of play was significantly impacted. But baseball doesn't seem to interested in such subtleties, only what the gate receipts look like.)

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 1:17 PM by Rick 156

Why not just let the fans in free if they want today? Maybe they can get it up to 20,000?

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 1:28 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 157

Anybody watching the game? How is the crowd? We get at least 10,000 today? Boys are up 4-2 top of 8th!

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 3:14 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 158

Man somebody check Perkins for the juice! What is that 6 straight strikeouts in 2 saves?? Sure don't miss Nathan struggling out there! LOL! Boys are 9-7. Redmond on the hot seat with the 4-16 Marlins?

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 3:43 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 159

According to the box score the attendance was near 25,000. Of course that is tickets sold not butts in seats. I bet there were half that. I did see some tweets saying that there were lots of school groups.

It will be interesting to see how empty it is tonight. I have my LC seats but plan to venture down to the lowest possible. Or if a scalper will trade me straight up for Dugout Box, I'll do it.

Did you see new Vikings jerseys? clicky

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 3:44 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 160

Was at the day game. Half the stadium was school groups. If that hadn't been the case, there would have been 7,000 there tops.

Posted on April 23, 2013 at 10:55 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 161

I was also at the game. There WERE lots of school groups, but not half. Actually, I came dressed ready for the cold and was too warm by mid-game! Sitting in the sun, I didn't need my hat or gloves. Didn't even buy the soup or chili I was planning to get.

Oh, and I saw him. I saw the Miami Marlins fan. Or at least a guy willing to wear a Marlins jersey. Wish I'd had my cell phone ready. Rarer than a Bigfoot sighting...

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 08:53 AM by BR Highlight this comment 162

Twinfan, you think the cheap-o Marlins would fire someone with a 3 yr contract after only a month? After they gutted that team it is probably amazing they HAVE won 5 games this year. Give him a raise!

Jeff Loria should be banned from baseball.

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 09:19 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 163

The Vikings and Dolphins were supposed to have grand unveiling's of their new uniforms at their respective draft parties on Thursday. Then the Jags put out a photo on Tuesday that showed their new uniforms and those of the other two teams as well. The Vikes are still going to do the big presentation on Thursday, but there are a lot of upset personnel at Winter Park over this.

As for the uniforms themselves, I'd have preferred a return to the mid 1960s/mid 1990s version that's been a throwback in recent years, but the new uniforms look good and improve tremendously over the outgoing set.

To put this on a stadium path, is there any time table for the release of Vikings stadium designs?

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 10:07 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 164

The new Vikings uniforms look mostly purple and a lot of white with some gold. Is this new?

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 10:25 AM by schweady Highlight this comment 165

Jorge- I believe I read a couple of days ago on the MPR website that said the Vikings designs will probably be unveiled sometime in early May or so.

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 10:36 AM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 166

Last night's game reminded me too much of the 2012 season. Give up a crooked number in the first, play catch up the rest of the night and whenever the score gets close the opponent puts up more runs. As the famed philosopher L.P. Berra once said, it was deja vu all over again.

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 11:54 AM by terry Highlight this comment 167

schweady, the entire design is new. The colors are the same. Everything else has been turned upside down.

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 12:00 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 168

Why unveil new uniforms for the LAST year at the Metrodome? Why not wait til 2016 when the new stadium opens? Thus seems odd to me.

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 12:50 PM by luke Highlight this comment 169

Because from 2013-2015 they will make $$$ selling these and then they can do it again in 2016 and sell even more. And probably sell the "old" versions as retro.

Now that Nike runs the NFL uniforms they will be making change after change and put all kinds of combinations into place. Maybe they will even come up with a pregame warmup jersey that is different, just like mlb teams have the BP jerseys/hats that are different than game unis.

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 1:14 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 170

Postponements are rather rare, as the stats show, but probably a bad measure of how weather impacts fan satisfaction.

Weather and team performance are the two biggest factors that drive the satisfaction level of attending a game. Which one has the biggest impact? In my opinion, when your talking about just one single game, weather has the bigger impact. If it's a nice beautiful day, it's a pleasure to be at the ballpark win or lose. If it's a miserable day, even a win may not make it enjoyable. Probably would of been more fun saving the money on the ticket and watching the game at a local pub.

Satisfaction drives future sales.

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 4:01 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 171

Ooh... I see... Funny, those first couple of years, the purple looked sort of grey. clicky.

Posted on April 24, 2013 at 5:04 PM by schweady Highlight this comment 172

Well we finally get some baseball weather! Winter to summer! Who needs spring anyways? Larry boy needs some nice weather to shore up that field that's for sure. What is that big gob in center and in right field! You know a nice checkerboard grass pattern would hide some of those faults Larry!!!!

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 1:21 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 173

I was just looking at the Target Field seating view webpage (linky), it displays the field with a checkerboard pattern.

First game of the year for me tonight. To say I'm excited is a bit of an understatement. We might see 70 degrees by game time!

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 1:45 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 174

Opening Day for my 8th grade baseball team. After 6 weeks and 28 practices, the boys of summer are back! IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 2:29 PM by ole Highlight this comment 175

State High School baseball playoffs start in 2-3 weeks and no games played yet? LOL!

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 2:50 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 176

Who wants to go sit inside the Metrodome tonight to watch the Twins? How about Saturday and Sunday afternoon?

Where are all of those Dome and Roof fans this weekend???

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 3:11 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 177

Is there a tractor pull in the humpty dump this weekend? LOL!

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 178

We insist on an open-air stadium for baseball, and then we insist on building a domed football stadium designed to accommodate baseball? Is the rest of the country laughing at us?

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 4:56 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 179

What a beautiful day in MN. Days like this are the exact reason TF was built

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 5:48 PM by luke Highlight this comment 180

Question of the year Winona. Question of the year.

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 5:49 PM by luke Highlight this comment 181

Mike, if it had been a well designed retractable roof, we still would of been able to enjoy the nice weather. And be comfortable during the bad. Imagine that!

Posted on April 26, 2013 at 11:51 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 182

Dave,

Retractable roofs are frequently closed for reasons of competitive advantage. Apparently, the home team's starting pitcher gets to make the decision (as he does for the uniforms). In both Houston and Milwaukee it is common for the roofs to be closed on days when fans fully expect them to be open. (Dan Gladden had a great riff on this subject the last time the Twins were in Houston.)

Also, the Twins never had any plan or intention for creating a climate-controlled stadium. Every design they published throughout their 15-year bid for a new facility showed a roof which could keep out rain, but would not involve changing (either heating or cooling) the air temperature inside. That was simply never on their wish list. (You can argue that it should have been, but the fact is that it was not.)

Also, the need to squeeze in tracks for the roof to run on would have significantly impacted the design, especially on the site they ultimately got. There would have been no way to create a roof which could either "disappear" when not in use, or coexist with a seating configuration anything like the final design. (I offer the absurdities of the upper decks at Milwaukee and Miami as examples.)

With all of that in mind, I can still imagine that someone will design a roof one day that meets all of the criteria you seem to expect. Some say that the Mariners managed it. I haven't been there, so I can't comment. The "sail" design proposed for the Rays a few years back offered some serious innovations that might have solved many of those problems. Too bad it's off the table.

If someone does crack the problem, you can bet that the next round of stadiums in cold-weather climates will all have them -- New York and Chicago included.

But I have to say that such a development would be to the detriment of the game. As somebody who has now been through a number of less-than-perfect (and some downright terrible) conditions at TF (and Wrigley and Comiskey and Comerica and Shea and KC -- and even Wade Stadium in Duluth), I come down firmly on accepting the weather conditions as part of the game -- and part of the business.

The teams know what they risk. As I calculated once upon a time, a retractable roof is nothing more than an insurance policy on walk-up sales. And it doesn't make much financial sense unless you can find someone else (say, a governmental entity) to pay for it on your behalf.

Posted on April 27, 2013 at 01:00 AM by Rick 183

Rick I recall you posted a picture of one of the ballpark models that had the roof, and pointed out the particular design placed the track directly over the LF bleachers...which essentially would have hung over the bleachers thus putting everyone who sat therein would be left in primordial darkness.
It was that revelation that converted me to the "roofless" side of the ballpark issue. It was a terrible design and I thank God every day that the Twins got what they got.

Posted on April 27, 2013 at 4:51 PM by luke Highlight this comment 184

MLB Guidelines for Movement of Retractable Roofs. The roof part is toward the bottom of that page.

We've chatted about this before, just the mere fact of having a roof along with thousands of fans, will impact the temperature inside the ballpark. Add to that any additional radiant heat sources or industrial sized cooling fans. So although it may not be climate controlled there's is much more control then completely open.

For the current location they for sure would of had to increase the footprint to hold the track footings and secure the aerial rights for holding the opened canopy. But between those tracks and under the open canopy they could still have been something. Be it parking, roads, rail, or shorter buildings of some sort.

I have been to Safeco Field, it's a nice ballpark. It has railroad tracks under it's open canopy. But it's open roof is not invisible. Part of it still hangs over the outfield seats. So most of the anti-roofer's wouldn't like it. It does however slide toward the east, minimizing the shadow effect of afternoon and evening games.

Well deigned roofs being a detriment or advantage to the enjoyment of a game is purely a personal preference. The same thing was said of artificial lights and night games. The opinions on that sure have changed over the years. A well played ballgame is a well played ballgame no matter where or when it's played. How enjoyable that game may have been is subjective.

I would disagree with the notion that a roof is nothing more than an insurance policy on walk-up sales. There's a much bigger financial impact than that. For fans that bought tickets but are no shows due to weather, there's lost concession, parking and merchandise revenues. You lose all revenue for any fan or groups not willing to risk a trip and having the game played in miserable weather or worse yet postponed. For example, I decided not to plan any games for April. If anything, no roof would increase walk-up sales rather than hinder them due to less people making advanced plans.

Posted on April 27, 2013 at 6:51 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 185

Very interesting. Thanks for posting that. That AZ roof must open FAST. Rules say "two pairs of 2'15" intervals."

Posted on April 27, 2013 at 8:21 PM by luke Highlight this comment 186

May 13. Mark it on your calendars. Design for US Bank Stadium to be revealed according to the MSFA

Posted on April 28, 2013 at 07:43 AM by luke Highlight this comment 187

Vikings stadium design to be revealed on May 13 at the Guthrie Theatre.

A limited number of tickets will be available to the public.

Click link for info

Those general public tickets better be free of charge or else they are asking for another PR nightmare in my opinion.

Posted on April 28, 2013 at 11:45 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 188

To paraphrase Peter Pan, all you need is faith, trust and pixie dust ... and starting pitching!

Posted on April 28, 2013 at 5:30 PM by terry Highlight this comment 189

I went to Friday night's ballgame (nice to see you there, too, Rick!). I found it fascinating how a different PA announcer (Adam Abrams must've been doing the Wild game at the same time) gave the park a different feel. The sub did fine, but at times I felt like I was in a different park although all the visuals were the same.

I noticed in Denver last year that their PA announcer tried a little too hard to have the stentorian "voice of God" like Bob Shepherd did...and came across sounding more like a minor league guy. Abrams, I feel, fits the Twins park well. Approachable Midwestern works for me.

Posted on April 29, 2013 at 4:31 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 190

Adam abrams wasnt there? Hallelujah. The guy is a dud and should go back to KOOL 108

Posted on April 29, 2013 at 4:51 PM by luke Highlight this comment 191

Some possible clues to the new Vikings' stadium design. Clicky.

Posted on April 29, 2013 at 9:37 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 192

I noticed the different PA guy immediately as well Fiesta. My wife, on the other hand, thought it was the same guy (Mars, Venus I guess). I didn't like him.

Posted on April 29, 2013 at 10:41 PM by antifire Highlight this comment 193

I think they should try to digitally reproduce Bob Casey's voice and play it on the loudspeakers. AA? Screw him. As far as I am concerned, Bob Casey IS the ONLY PA voice of the Twins. Period.

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 06:55 AM by luke Highlight this comment 194

Well, things change, people die, we move on. Most of us do, anyway.

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 07:07 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 195

For all you scorekeepers out there, Bethany Heck--a young graphic designer out of Auburn--has designed another winner of a scorebook. Join the kickstarter movement to help it get to the printer. Baseball deserves great design!

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 10:57 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 196

Lets hope Larry is head down elbows up fixing that field! Cmon Larry you got almost 2 weeks to get this field looking good. And how bout a different grass pattern?? You can do it Larry Boy!

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 11:08 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 197

I posted my OD 2013 panorama below. For many reasons I believe it is my best one to date. To get a better look, click the link in my name and view Large by hitting L on your keyboard once the page loads. Enjoy!


Posted on April 30, 2013 at 11:19 AM by jared Highlight this comment 198

Jared - you should sell that picture. In fact, if you do, let me know. That is awesome!

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 11:32 AM by ole Highlight this comment 199

Outstanding Jared. Did you have a photog pass to get that close?

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 11:48 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 200

Nice pic Jared, well done.

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 11:58 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 201

Has anyone seen the field in Detroit? Larry would be disappointed. Actually probably happy because it makes TF look immaculate.

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 11:59 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 202

twinfan,

What is this about the quality of the grass? I moved all over the stadium on Friday night and it looked immaculate from every single angle -- far away and up close. Even the worn patches where outfielders stand looked better than usual.

What do you want? (And don't say a f-ing different mowing pattern.)

(P.S. Jared can't sell his picture unless he gets permission from the Twins and makes a deal to pay royalties. It is an awesome picture and totally kicks mine to the curb.)

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 12:11 PM by Rick 203

I agree Tigers grass looked horrible also. I can't imagine what TF will look like after that goat roping concert again! I still see large areas in CF and RF that look terrrrrrrrrrible on my 52 inch HD set. Yes I want a different cut pattern! I think it's maybe beyond Larry Boys scope however. FCOL!

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 1:25 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 204

Rick is it possible to remove certain posters from the feed so I dont have to read the same shit over and over again?

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 1:34 PM by JoJo Highlight this comment 205

I was at the game Sat and the only large spot I noticed was in CF where the pattern couldn't even get cut into it, but I didn't think it looked terrible. It was still nice and green, it just couldn't hold the cut pattern.

The field had endured a couple major snowfalls within a week, removal of said snow, and then a doubleheader played on it when it was probably still fairly wet, at least under the turf. The playability of the field for that doubleheader alone speaks highly of Larry and his crew and their competence at field maintenance.

Inane commentery also tends to reveal (in)competence...

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 2:02 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 206

Ok I'll lay off the grass and Larry boy! How do you think the Mild do tonight in Chitown?

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 2:05 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 207

Wow...I was going to agree with Luke on the PA guy, Adams sucks, so does the dopey Carsoup guy. Then he goes and proposes trying to reproduce Bob Casey's voice, who himself was a hack. Gross.

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 2:27 PM by Duffman Highlight this comment 208

JoJo, the little guy with the green shirt and the red X is your friend.

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 2:32 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 209

Thanks DreDogg, Twinfan isnt so bad, It would be nice to use the green guy with X for Luke, but his comments are like a car wreck sometimes, you cant NOT look, I would miss it I think!

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 3:29 PM by JoJo Highlight this comment 210

I also wondered about the announcer on Friday, but thought he did just fine. As was mentioned, it's kind of surprising how changing one component affects the whole mood of the ballpark.

I remember the night last summer that Sue Nelson was not there and they had a fill-in organist. It was obvious from the first note he played, and he proved that, even if you don't always like what she does (her "Take Me Out" drives me crazy every time), Sue is a big part of the Twins' public face.

And I assume that most people here got the chance to meet ornery old Bob Casey at Twinsfest. If you did not, let me just say that I'm guessing the ghost of Bob Casey would be one scarey-ass creature -- certainly not something you want haunting the PA system at Target Field during every game.

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 3:41 PM by Rick 211

As a percussionist(e.g., not much of a musician), I wonder what you hear in Sue's "Take me out" that is so grating, Rick. Nothing is standing out for me as I think back to past games. I, for one, am not a fan of "Take me out" being the "Lexus 7th Inning Stretch."

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 212

Two things:

1. She takes it too low -- at least a step. Singers with lower voices don't have trouble where she plays it, but people with higher voices do. If she took it up a step or two, the lower voices still won't have trouble, but the upper voices will be a lot more comfortable and be able to make a lot more noise. (I have a higher voice, but as a composer, I have to be very sensitive to vocal ranges at all times. It's a delicate thing, and half a step can make a very real difference on where music sits in people's voices.)

2. She listens to and tries to stay in sync with whoever the featured singers are. That's great in concept, but it can't be done by listening. The singers, who are hearing the organ through the PA speakers, are hearing the music delayed, which causes them to start late, which causes Sue to hesitate, which causes the singers to second-guess, and leads to prolonged chaos. (To hear what I'm talking about, listen to how she sets the tempo with her introduction, and then the song always slows down once the singing starts, often with an awkward hesitation after the first word.)

There are two possible solutions. A) Have both the singers and organist listen to each other through headphones -- or at least right next to a non-delayed PA speaker, or B) pick a tempo and stay with it, ignoring completely what the singers are doing. Personally, I'd go with B. (They'll be able to stay in sync just fine. In fact, it will sound better and more confident to everyone.)

These are the types of problems I have to solve all the time when working with singers and instrumentalists separated by more than just a few feet. It's also especially troublesome in acoustic environments with long delays (such as stadiums or cathedrals). Technology can help, but it has to be used properly.

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 4:24 PM by Rick 213

How do you compare Sue, in general, with Ronnie Newman?

Posted on April 30, 2013 at 11:12 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 214

Bob Casey, the Angry PA Announcer. Ronnie Newman. Those are some nostalgic names from the past. Anyone old enough to remember Willie Peterson, the first Met stadium organist? I don't expect Rick to respond; today is May Day so I'm sure he must have some "Commie" rally to attend - either that or lead a protest of the lawn mowing at Target Field.

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 08:31 AM by terry Highlight this comment 215

My first game at the Met was summer of 1966. Not sure if Willie was on the pipes or not. I do remember Ronnie and of course the living legend Casey. A few years latter I can remember somebody spelling out F*ck You with beer cups on the fencing below the LF bleachers in the picnic section! What a hoot. Would always buy the cheap 3rd base bleacher seat and by the 2nd inning was sitting in the box seats behind home plate!

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 10:43 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 216

My first game at the old Met was in 1969 or 1970 and Jimmy Holt hit an homerun in extra innings and we won 2-1. Went to a lot more games of all types in the 70's and always enjoyed the games and the experiences.

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 11:33 AM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 217

Interesting ATL local news story showing some of the concept art for the new Falcons stadium. Hope the Vikings are as forward thinking as the dirty birds appear to be.

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 10:24 AM by Jp Highlight this comment 218

Today, I'm happy the Twins are on the road. 37 degrees, rain & snow here, fans in Detroit in shirtsleeves.

I am so sick of this winter!

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 12:45 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 219

Sorry to say, but my memory of Ronnie Newman is not strong enough to make a comparison. I just know that I've never heard these same problems at other big league ballparks -- and I'm very (somewhat regrettably) sensitive to such things.

As for MayDay, I think I'm going to go out and protest the snow. Most of us just sit around as if it's beyond our control, but somebody has to do something about it!

(If you're coming out for the MayDay Parade on Sunday, stop by and say HI. 3300 Bloomington.)

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 2:36 PM by Rick 220

That reminds me, however, that I heard a completely terrible example of the sync problem when Neil Diamond tried to sing along to "Sweet Caroline" recently at Fenway.

By the end, the PA guy had to turn down the recording because both Diamond and the crowd were horribly out of sync.

Basically, what happened is that Neil was hearing the music from the PA speakers (instead of an in-ear monitor, or something more direct). In a stadium, it can easily take half a second for the sound to get from the speakers to his ears. So he sings along with what he's hearing, but it's a half second later than the track.

His live voice gets fed into the PA, and now the speakers feature the original track AND his live vocal out of sync. The crowd has to pick one or the other, and they pick his live voice because it's louder (and it's what they want to hear anyway).

Now, Diamond hears the crowd singing with his delayed live vocal, which takes another half second to reach his ears, and the track is moving along at its original clip. There's no possible outcome other than a train wreck, which is what they got. (An audio train wreck. As a piece of emotion, it was certainly satisfying to everyone involved.)

Pros, that is, people who sing professionally and work at ballparks, should really know better than to let that happen. Had Diamond been listening to the track on a wireless in-ear monitor, and gently but firmly ignored the delayed sound of both the speakers and the crowd, it would have gone off without a hitch.

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 2:47 PM by Rick 221

Forgot to mention that they have a tradition in Boston of dropping out the recording so that the crowd can sing the "bah bah bah" and "so good" by themselves. This is great on a normal occasions, but when mixed with a delayed lead vocal, it just made things worse...

All in all, a regrettably sloppy execution by Diamond and the Fenway scoreboard folks.

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 3:25 PM by Rick 222

Neil Diamond - horrible. Scott Diamond - on his game today!

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 3:40 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 223

May 1'st and ground/trees have fresh layer of white stuff, fun!

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 4:45 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 224

YAY! The Cubs are gonna leave the NorthSide Urinal that is Wrigley!

...Well, okay, it is just a threat...for now.

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 8:20 PM by jared Highlight this comment 225

Beautiful renderings. If the Wrig is on the Natl Historical Register, it might not be after said renovations (Soldier Field suffered the same fate).
Ricketty Split isnt going to move the Cubbies. Chicago would riot. And it would cost alot less to renovate than to build new.

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 9:28 PM by luke Highlight this comment 226

Leaving Wrigley Field might be the best thing for the Cubs. As it currently stands, they sell out almost every game simply due to the (dubious) virtues of their ballpark and its neighborhood. They don’t have to make strides toward championships when they’ve created a mystique about their ballpark and Cubs fans as being “real” baseball fans. It’s all hogwash, or course, but enough people have bought into it that the Cubs are nearly maxing out on their revenue potential without having to worry about fielding a competitive team. All they need to do is look like they’re trying, and they’ve accomplished that by running up a huge payroll with nothing to show for it. The curse theory has proven to be insidious, and all too often we still hear about how the franchise is cursed. Why bother to improve when you have a beloved ballpark that’s still a place to be seen and a built-in explanation as to why the team constantly comes up short?

The Cubs have no incentive to become winners. What they need is to play in a crappy venue like the Metrodome, then they’d have to put a competitive product on the field in order to draw the kinds of crowds they’re used to failing in front of now.

Why not sell the Metrodome to the Cubs and ship it piece by piece to Chicago for the Cubs to call home? Put it in a rough neighborhood and the Cubs will then find out who the real baseball fans are.

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 9:38 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 227

+1 Winona, I think you hit it right on the head. Not to mention, if we sold them the dome, that could cover the extra cost (or maybe a pane of glass and some framing) of a worthless retractable feature everyone is asking for!

Posted on May 1, 2013 at 10:27 PM by jared Highlight this comment 228

I'm not sure I can wholly agree with the characterization of a sliding window feature as "worthless." Several years ago, I went to a Twins game in Milwaukee and they played with the roof closed due to the threat of rain. The rain came, but having the windows in the outfield open kept plenty of fresh air moving through the building, which I greatly appreciated.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 05:55 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 229

Im with you winona, I was just being a little over-facetious.

On another note, how about that Metro snowstorm (or lack thereof)? It's so awesome seeing how much 50-100 miles in driving distance can completely change a forecast. With such a narrow band of intense snow even a small shift in the system is just enough. That my friends is the challenge of forecasting.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 07:44 AM by jared Highlight this comment 230

Winona - sellouts are mostly a thing of the past at Wrigley. 6 yrs ago tickets were scarce. Since 2008 their capacity has been:

2008 99.1%
2009 96.3
2010 92.0
2011 90.5
2012 86.5
2013 77.0 (I imagine April has always been a tougher sell there)

I was there 2 summers ago for a weeknight game in June and bought tickets on the street for face value and there were plenty available.

Even with those numbers dropping they are still top 10 in baseball for average attendance and % filled, but they are sliding. My guess is that some of the locals are tired of the losing and are staying away. The "tourism" aspect of Wrigley remains fairly strong.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 08:44 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 231

Agree re the sloppiness of the recent Neil Diamond performance but in fairness, it was not a planned event. He just showed up, called the front office, said he was there and asked if he could sing his song. The tech staff can probably be forgiven for not having an in-ear monitor ready to go...

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 08:48 AM by BR Highlight this comment 232

14 inches of snow where I live and still snowing. Supposed to coach my baseball team in a doubleheader tomorrow - don't think that will be happening!! All of you in the Cities dodged the bullet this time, I guess.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 08:57 AM by ole Highlight this comment 233

Where you at Ole??? Wrong call Dahl just a tad off on the dry line for the cities! LOL!

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 10:20 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 234

Kasson, MN. About 15 miles west of Rochester.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 10:31 AM by ole Highlight this comment 235

I want to go beat up that groundhog in Pennsylvania or do something to vent my frustration! This has been the spring-from-hell.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 11:58 AM by terry Highlight this comment 236

Terry I have my sawed off shotgun all ready. I am gonna go shoot the stupid thing.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 12:56 PM by luke Highlight this comment 237

Sun is out here in Bloomington and no snow on the ground!

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 1:29 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 238

Still snowing here. About a foot on the ground.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 1:32 PM by terry Highlight this comment 239

Terry what town are you in? I spoke with a guy in Southern Minnesota today who stunned me by saying they got about 14 inches of snow from this storm. There's literally not a new flake on the ground in Minneapolis. The only snow is from the diminishing parking lot glaciers.

The Cubs have no intention of leaving Wrigley Field. This is all part of the dance to get what they want for renovations. That park is the difference between the team having a national following along with being the second team for many fans and being the White Sox who have a nice fanbase, but mean essentially nothing nationally. I'll only grant this. The threat of moving to the burbs may be a way of softening the landing for the idea of knocking down Wrigley to put a replacement on the site.

Regarding attendance, the Cubs' attendance peaked in 2008 due to the team winning the NL Central for the second straight season. Subsequent declines, have coincided with the recession and the team failing to finish above .500 since the 2009 season, culminating in a 61-101 fiasco last season. That run has contributed to poor attendance this season in combination with Chicago having nearly as bad a spring as us. Bad as the decline looks, 2012 was the first time the Cubs failed to draw 3,000,000 plus fans since 2003 and the 2012 mark was bigger than any season in Cubs history prior to 2003.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 4:13 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 240

Luke with a shotgun, sawed-off or otherwise, is a thought that keeps me up at night.

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 9:26 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 241

Guns and I get along real well Winona. I am insured by Smith and Wesson ;). Love the NRA (now that Moses doesnt run it).

Posted on May 2, 2013 at 10:31 PM by luke Highlight this comment 242

You must be a congressman.

Posted on May 3, 2013 at 05:31 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 243

They wouldnt want me to do that. I would be the first borderline Anarchist to hold a Congressional seat :).

Posted on May 3, 2013 at 06:28 AM by luke Highlight this comment 244

Joel - how many games has your 8th grade team played so far?

Posted on May 3, 2013 at 12:41 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 245

Not to stir the pot but holy cow, Wrigley turf...woof. And Twinkfan thought TF was bad. And it was either Detroit's or Chicago White Sox' (maybe both) that was looking pretty rough and cut up the other day too. So can we stop with the knocks on the grounds crew? They are clearly no worse than anyone else.

Posted on May 3, 2013 at 7:52 PM by jared Highlight this comment 246

Any idea on when that Wrigley pic is from Jared? Based on the highlights I saw this weekend from Wrigley, the ivy has not greened up yet. It is very green in that pic you have linked.

Posted on May 6, 2013 at 10:06 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 247

Stevie- Its from mid-last season.

So while it isn't from this season (and my point not well articulated initially) my thoughts were:it is still representative of other grounds crew's struggles managing turf. Twinfan has been picking that scab almost since day 1 at TF so I thought it relevant to bring up to hush the whining a bit.

The argument that "all other teams GC are better" is holds far less weight with that image. Especially because its a place like Wrigley. It's not covered. Plenty of sunglight. No real shade issues to deal with. They have events (which could have been the cause of the replacement in the image) but you can see what old, versus new is like and how dry their grass can look like too. TF has a few more things to worry about and comes out looking no worse than anywhere else.

A quick search reveals other stadiums having issues as well. Marlins park being the big news lately that they, "shockingly", are having a hard time keeping grass green in a covered stadium. I found an interesting article about replacing the infield at Safeco. The guy there said they could play on it forever but they target a 10 year replacement cycle and that it is hard to donate because the sand base basically makes the grass crumble when it comes up. Thought that was interesting since artificial turf has like a 7 year replacement cycle or something. Not that they would use turf in the majors anymore but for other sports, its an interesting tidbit.

Wow, probably way more of a response than you wanted Stevie but I just thought all that would be interesting to note.

Posted on May 6, 2013 at 1:06 PM by jared Highlight this comment 248

Jared I watched some games from Wrigley this year on TV and the field looks great. And yes the ivy was the give away. I gave Larry a pass the first year or until he changed from the traditional check cut. And they should never allow those silly goat roping concerts or hockey games on that field! Larry doesn't need the added burden!

Posted on May 6, 2013 at 1:30 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 249

I just did a search and found that Wrigley hosted Roger Waters on Jun 8 last year, Brad Paisley on Jun 9 and Bruce Springsteen on Sept 7. This must have been taken following one of those weekends. All MLB GC face varying issues and events and will continue to do so. Any major concert or weather events can lead to a temporary disruption of the beauty of the field, but a good GC will recover and get it back fairly quickly. I think the TF crew is showing themselves to be more than capable.

Perhaps the problem in Miami is that there is not enough carbon dioxide being generated inside the ballpark...

Posted on May 6, 2013 at 1:39 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 250

Fair point Jared, but do those cities proclaim that their groundskeeping crew walks on water? That's what I take most issue with.

Posted on May 6, 2013 at 11:01 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 251

The point has been amply made.

Posted on May 7, 2013 at 03:40 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 252

15 strikeouts is what did them in last night. A couple of productive outs here and there would have been very welcome. Of course the fielders don't have to move and disturb the grass pattern if everyone is striking out.

Posted on May 7, 2013 at 08:43 AM by terry Highlight this comment 253

200 tickets available to the public a few hours before the unveiling of the Vikes stadium. "Clinky" (Link + clicky...oy). :)

Posted on May 7, 2013 at 11:04 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 254

I should take that day off and camp outside the Dumpty to see if I can snag a ducat to the unveiling. The caveat: just one ticket per person. May 13 will be a banner day in Minnesota sports history.

Posted on May 7, 2013 at 7:20 PM by luke Highlight this comment 255

That could be quite the sight. The staid and refined Guthrie Theater invaded by a couple hundred face-painted, Skol-singing Vikings fans.

Posted on May 8, 2013 at 06:46 AM by terry Highlight this comment 256

Do they allow tailgating at the Guthrie?

Posted on May 8, 2013 at 11:59 AM by terry Highlight this comment 257

Looks like the Marlins will be closing the upper decks of there stadium for A time. Guess the saying if you build it they will come isnt always true click the link for story

Posted on May 8, 2013 at 9:53 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 258

The Marlins should give their fans a break and close off the lower seating bowl instead, so the handful of fans that show up won’t have to pay lower bowl prices.

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 03:51 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 259

I really like that diamond pattern grass cut at Fenway! Think Larry could ever do this?? I doubt it! Field looked in great shape. I bet they don't have goat roping concerts in there? Can we take the series today? Bats are ALIVE!!!!!!!!!

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 09:52 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 260

Sorry to let you down but Fenway hosts the concerts too (clicky). More than once during the season, even. Not every park uses a checkerboard pattern, get over it. Maybe Larry reads this board and will never do it just to piss you off.

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 10:41 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 261

I wish Larry read my comments! Sure looked Purdy last night! I'm sure Fenway won't look the same post July though!

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 11:11 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 262

It will be interesting to see what happens in Miami with the Dolphins' stadium situation following the debacle that was Marlins Park.

Will the people of Miami cave in to the "LA threats" and renovate Dolphins Stadium/build a new stadium or will they let the Dolphins leave?

Ironic in all of this was that the Dolphins were in Miami long before the Marlins existed and now the Dolphins might suffer from the actions of Jeff Loria and the Marlins Ballpark fiasco.

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 1:57 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 263

The fallout from the Miami Mess could be large and long. How will anyone ever again be able to argue with a straight face that new facilities guarantee anything -- from increased revenues, to economic boosts, to more winning, to what have you.

Those arguments have been on the ropes for years, and should be able to die a complete death at this point. If nothing else, Miami demonstrates that every such claim comes with a great big "if" attached.

We've already seen signs that the era of big government stadium subsidies is teetering. The question is whether Miami pushes it over the precipice. Oh the wonderful irony if that is Loria's legacy to professional sports...

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 2:08 PM by Rick 264

When will our pill popping Gov announce the secret funding mechanism??

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 2:50 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 265

I knew the Miami "ballpark" was going to falter in its second year.

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 5:24 PM by luke Highlight this comment 266

Why the quotation marks, Luke? Am I missing some finer point of Luke Irony here?

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 6:41 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 267

Winona, that place looks like a warehouse on steroids. They should be docking planes in there. Its not a ballpark, its a space station. Thats why the quotation marks.

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 8:01 PM by luke Highlight this comment 268

I always thought it looked like a George Foreman Grill.

Posted on May 9, 2013 at 9:43 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 269

Having been there, it is a very nice ballpark.

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 01:31 AM by Duffman Highlight this comment 270

Pill popping? That's disgustingly bigoted. Just stop.

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 08:59 AM by BR Highlight this comment 271

T-Minus 3 days until there are new stadium designs to drool over!!!

What are the chances these plans are leaked over the weekend?

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 09:10 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 272

anyone email the twins for anything today? the two contacts i have there i get a bounceback saying undeliverable. Hmm, maybe my account as been canceled... could be a good thing.

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 12:24 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 273

Winona! By George (no pun intended) I think you just found the new title sponsor for the Miami Ballpark!

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 12:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 274

BTW I can't wait for Ricks first post on the Vikes stadium design

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 12:46 PM by luke Highlight this comment 275

RAISE YOUR HAND NOW FOR A CHANCE TO SERVE ON THE 2013 TWINS SEASON TICKET HOLDER ADVISORY COUNCIL

Should I feel special?

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 3:30 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 276

A somewhat Guggenheim-esque proposal for the Warriors arena across the Bay. I like the idea of actually incorporating a window to the outside world (not just the sky) which is something often ignored in the mostly capsulated, status-quo, arena designs.

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 4:31 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 277

"TWINS SEASON TICKET HOLDER ADVISORY COUNCIL"

I'd be curious to see the by-laws for that board. Will you need to brush up on your parliamentary procedures?

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 5:19 PM by Rick 278

Does anybody know the best Gate to go to if you want the best chance to get a free give-away but not wait in line for hours? Thanks. I'm also looking forward to Rick's views on the new Vikes Stadium.

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 5:33 PM by TimB Highlight this comment 279

Did I spot the building from “The Towering Inferno” in the background in those renderings?

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 6:30 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 280

I would say gate 14 would be your best bet for shorter lines. Unless you have access to one of the premium entrances, like the skyway club entrance. Or if your really lucky the Champions club entrance.

Posted on May 10, 2013 at 10:22 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 281

Attended the game on Friday night. Does anybody know what happened in the first inning to the gal in Section Q of the Legends Club? She was going for a foul ball and it looked like she fell to the next row. (Still in the Legends Club). They took her out on a stretcher.

Posted on May 11, 2013 at 12:56 AM by gogotwins Highlight this comment 282

They were still handing out bobbleheads at 6:15 at gates 6 & 3.

Posted on May 11, 2013 at 12:59 AM by gogotwins Highlight this comment 283

I was at the ball yard last night. First time this season I did not have to dress as though going on a polar expedition. Bad arithmetic for the night though; eleven strikeouts and two "official" errors by the Twins and seven doubles and eighteen hits for the O's. Those are bad numbers.

Posted on May 11, 2013 at 08:26 AM by terry Highlight this comment 284

I bet that woman wishes she had just taken $12 over to Dick's (now I'm going to get jumped for being "jaded" again).

There were still folks coming up the elevator towards the TBT with boxes in their hands at nearly 6:30.

Posted on May 11, 2013 at 12:06 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 285

My guess is the Warriors' new arena, which still has some ways to go en route to happening, will look considerably less ambitious in reality vs. prospect.

I'm okay with "retractable elements", namely big windows in the endzones like in Indy. However, the Vikings had better be ready for some disappointment and backlash over having a fixed roof instead of a fully retractable one. The team has dropped some hints and clues in order to soften the landing, but for some fans opening the ends instead of the top won't be nearly good enough.

Posted on May 11, 2013 at 2:15 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 286

Well even retractable roofs on newer NFL stadiums only are partial. Dallas, Indy, Phoenix...the roof basically just covers the field. A fully retractable roof is out of the question. The cost would be enormous.

However, the new retractable roof on the BC Place Stadium in Vancouver is pretty awesome, it folds back like an awning. Its made out of the same material as the Dumptys roof is made out of. Check it out on YouTube. I think a fixed roof would save money on the project, as you don't need the hydraulics and tracks and pulleys needed for a retractable roof.

Posted on May 11, 2013 at 4:13 PM by luke Highlight this comment 287

Was at the game tonight and about mid-game a member of the raptor family, who may or may not have been the famous Kirby the Kestrel from the 2010 season, flew over the left field corner and then departed the stadium right over our seats in 323. Anyone else see it?

Posted on May 11, 2013 at 10:26 PM by ClarkAddison Highlight this comment 288

I saw a bird a couple of times Friday night. Didn't get a close enough look for a positive ID but was small like a Kestrel and had the appropriate wing flap and flight behavior.

Posted on May 11, 2013 at 10:52 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 289

Is the Kestrel back??!!?? Remember there was one that would show up in the early days of TF and would usually park itself on the RF foul pole. I bet Rick remembers.

Posted on May 12, 2013 at 07:22 AM by luke Highlight this comment 290

Can someone explain the allure of a retractable "feature" like a large window or door? How does that add to the gameday experience, exactly? Without a retactable roof as well, does it really make you feel like you're outdoors? Does it bring in any real outside element? I don't think I've been in a such a stadium so I'm having a hard time envisioning its effect and, thus, value.

Posted on May 12, 2013 at 1:45 PM by br Highlight this comment 291

It's a gewgaw.

Posted on May 12, 2013 at 3:41 PM by Rick 292

The Twins bring to mind Tom Kelly's axiom that you will win one third of your games, lose one third of them and that it's what you do in the remaining third that determines success. Lately in three game series the Twins have been winning one game (yesterday); losing one badly (today) and losing one they should/could have won (Friday). Same pattern occurred in the Detroit and Cleveland series. Hope that changes.

Posted on May 12, 2013 at 5:39 PM by terry Highlight this comment 293

As I’ve stated here before recently, I was at Miller Park on a rainy evening and they had the sliding windows beyond the outfield seats open. Even with the roof closed, plenty of fresh air came in and it made the evening more pleasant. We could even enjoy that smell of approaching rain. I imagine a warm August evening or a beautiful September day when being inside an enclosed stadium could be made a much more enjoyable time with some fresh air circulating throughout the stadium.

I would disagree with the idea that such windows are merely geegaws.

Posted on May 12, 2013 at 8:49 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 294

Winona:
Does Miller Park have more than one bank of windows, to allow for air flow? I could see that, I guess. It'd be like some airports in tropical cities that are bascially breezeways: covered but open-sided. That could work. Odd to think that design would be significantly less expensive than a "sunroof"...

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 08:37 AM by BR Highlight this comment 295

Big day on the Vikings stadium front.....My hope is that the new design is something daring, bold and original. I don't want to see Lucas Oil Stadium 2.0. No brick, no exposed steel girders, in other words, SAY NO TO RETRO!!!.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 08:59 AM by Fred Highlight this comment 296

I'm leery of the use of the plastic ETFE. Could look really cool or really cheap, and I don't know if we know how it will wear over time.

I'm just hoping it will be unique and have clear "Minnesota" elements that work better than, say, the grassy mounds in front of the federal courthouse. If it's as good as TF, I'll be happy.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 09:38 AM by BR Highlight this comment 297

It sounds like we're getting yet another Minnesota public building that incorporates Kasota Limestone in to the exterior.

The remake of The Italian Job is about a decade old, so the statute of limitations on spoilers has expired. I bring it up because Mark Wahlberg's character has a confronation with Ed Norton's character that's relevant to what may be afoot with the Vikings Stadium design.

Norton, Wahlberg, and numerous other characters committed a gold heist, only for Norton to screw his partners and make off with the loot. Wahlberg and company plot a course for revenge and reclaiming their lost, if ill-gotten, fortune. In the confrontation, Wahlberg informs Norton that pulling off the plan was easy because Norton was so predictable. He goes on to mention that Norton lacks any original thought whatsoever, to the point that Norton had all that money, but no idea what to do with it. To that point, all of Norton's spendy possessions were items his former comrades had said they'd buy with the loot.

In relation to the above, while light years ahead of the Metrodome, I'm getting the feeling the new Vikings stadium will incorporate a bit of Lucas Oil Stadium, a bit of Cowboys Stadium, a bit of Target Field, a bit of the Xcel Energy Center, and bits of several other stadiums. However, I'm guessing it won't look unique. HKS, of course, is designing the stadium, but the client always has a significant amount of input. I echo the thought that the Wilfs and Bagley don't have much creativity, so we're likely to see a park that grabs elements of many, possibly missing out on its own identity in the process.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 11:25 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 298

Hmm, my hopes for the Vikings stadium design...

1. Imaginative
2. Distinctive
3. Cooperative (with its neighborhood)
4. Restrained
5. Unique
6. Welcoming
7. Respectful (of the fans and the game)

I would add "visionary" but I think that's too much to ask from this design team. It's far more likely to be "serviceable" than it is to be "visionary".

It may not sound like it from my previous comment, but I'm withholding judgement on a "retractable feature". Let's see what it is, what it might provide, and if they've come up with anything more than a gewgaw. Frankly, I find that hard to imagine, but I hope to be surprised.

It's all subjective, after all. I found Miller Park to be a very enclosed, and decidedly "indoor" space even with the windows and roof open. It just felt to me like a big gymnasium with a big skylight.

There are merits to that approach, I suppose, but even with windows and roof open I never really felt like I was outdoors. That feeling is what you would seem to be seeking by including anything retractable in the first place. If you don't get it, then it seems to me you're better off to just admit that it's an indoor facility, make it the best it can be, and save a whole bunch of money.

I've probably said this before, but while baseball is clearly an outdoor sport, I don't think football really is. Indoor football, especially professional football, seems like a perfectly fine option to me. (College football is a different story, though I can't exactly explain why.)

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 11:46 AM by Rick 299

Interesting observation and prognostication, Jorge.

One wonders if the Vikings really appreciate what's at stake today. This may sound over-dramatic, but if they whiff on this, there could be legislative backlash. And that could get ugly.

One thing's for sure, today officially starts the race to the ground-breaking. Once the first shovel goes in the ground, whether the thing is properly financed will be moot.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 11:50 AM by Rick 300

Jorge, I've seen the design. And yes it has certain elements from other stadiums. However, it is definitely unique.

Rick, I think the design does capture some of your hopes you listed.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 12:00 PM by stadiuminsider Highlight this comment 301

Many of the things that make a sports venue good from the fan's perspective are very basic and not very glamorous. Are the seats wide enough? Is there sufficient leg room? Can you get to concessions and rest rooms easily? Those aren't the kinds of things that attract media attention, but if you're a fan in the stands they are pretty important. As we all know the dome, in addition to being an aethetic nightmare, failed miserably on all these criteria.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 12:45 PM by terry Highlight this comment 302

And the Dome failed on so many other levels, including spurring development around it, being a positive aesthetic addition to the skyline, respecting any of the sports played there.

The Dome was cheap. And you get what you pay for.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 12:52 PM by Rick 303

Will today's event be the end-all in terms of the design of the Vikings stadium, or will enhancements or changes still come before the October groundbreaking? There are some design features of TF that were in the original design, but are not present: I.e. the restaurant in. center field. The admin building is also a tad different than the design concepts announced in 2007.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM by luke Highlight this comment 304

I have a feeling that i as a supporter for a retractable roof will be sorely disappointed tonight. I hope that the design will be something we can live with and they have not tried to screw it up which is something that might happen.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 1:22 PM by NewGuy Highlight this comment 305

I'm maybe a little too old-fashioned. I go to a venue to see what the venue is presenting. So, what is important to me is comfort, legroom, etc. as suggested above. What it looks like while approaching is secondary and I couldn't care less whether goat sandwiches are available.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 306

We do know this so far:

fixed roof
retractable wall/window on the west side facing downtown
a lot of glass will be featured

Why are so many wanting a retractable roof for a football stadium? Has anyone ever been to Lucas Oil Stadium, Reliant Stadium Cowboys Stadium or University of Phoenix Stadium? The roofs are rarely open and you are really not sitting outside. The only open part of the roof is basically over the field itself.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 2:00 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 307

I don't need a retractable roof. They'll only play 10 games (plus playoffs!). Most of the other events that they'll hold there will not need to be open-air. It's far more important it be high quality, functional, and something the community can build around. Spend the money on wider seats, electronics, quality building materials, and plaza amenities.

And Rick, two reasons why college games should be outdoors: Hearing the roar of the crowd on campus, and no December-January games/weather.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 2:24 PM by BR Highlight this comment 308

It's a fair point, Ben. Most fans will take the same approach.

And to that point, I will be especially sensitive to how the fans in the cheapest seats (because there will be no cheap seats) are treated by the design. I can't look at this design from a personal perspective anyway because I fully admit that I'm highly unlikely to ever see a Vikings game there. If I do ever get inside there, it will more likely be for Twinsfest.

But beyond that, when it comes to big civic projects, I long ago graduated from, "Does it work for me?" to, "Does it work?" That includes all the bigger questions, and only because these facilities do not disappear when there is no game going on.

If this thing is beautiful and completely fan-friendly but functions as a turd on the eastern edge of downtown, surrounded by a next-generation moonscape, it will have failed from a civic standpoint, even if everybody who goes there for football games can drop a lot of money, stretch out their legs, and take a quick and convenient piss at halftime.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 2:30 PM by Rick 309

You hit it, BR. People trying to study on Saturday afternoons should be interrupted by the noise of the crowd.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 2:32 PM by Rick 310

Rick~
If only the NIMBY neighborhood associations around the U agreed with you!

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 2:52 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 311

Given a choice, I would prefer open air. But I also understand that in order to get this thing built, it has to be the "People's Stadium" and available 365 days a year.

I've yet to see a retractable roofed football stadium that I'm a real fan of. So my expectations are really low that we'll see anything earthshattering when it comes to a retractable anything.

I'm more interested to see how this stadium fits in that area of downtown.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 3:33 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 312

I just dont want to see a carbon copy..be it a copy of Indy, Houston, Phoenix, Jones Palace in Dallas. I want to see some originality, creativity and definitely not Metrodome Redux.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 4:57 PM by luke Highlight this comment 313

Wow! All I can say is WOW!

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 7:49 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 314

First impression: I like it.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 7:57 PM by Rick 315

That sure ain't Lucas Oil Stadium.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:02 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 316

Well...it's most definitely bold and original. I'm very impressed so far.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:03 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 317

I like it but the giant glass doors are pointless. They're only on half of the west end and get lost in the busy angles.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:13 PM by James1979 Highlight this comment 318

I like it. It's DEFINITELY unique. I am duly impressed. Guess I better sign up for season tickets...lol. AND, baseball didn't look overtly awful and intrusive. I GUESS I can let that go.
The video boards don't look as large as they made them sound they were going to be. Obviously they're going to be bigger than what we have now.
I am also glad they didn't do the center-hung video board thing.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:14 PM by luke Highlight this comment 319

It looks like a mega-church, which may be appropriate as it will be filled on Sundays.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:15 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 320

Had the same thought, TTH - the Crystal Cathedral in CA came to mind.

I like it - if that roof is executed as-rendered, it seems it will provide more of a sense of being outdoors as a fixed roof facility than many of the current retractable roof facilities.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:24 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 321

I like the design too, but I do have a question. It appears the baseball diamond will face North-Northwest,so if its past 5 or 6 in the afternoon how bad will the sun affect the right fielder trying to see the baseball? I would think he would not be able to catch the easily with the sun right in his line of sight.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:46 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 322

It sure does look like the Crystal Cathedral, at least on the downtown end.

And the comparison is quite salient because, having sung there, I can attest to the fact that the Crystal Cathedral is a TV studio outfitted to look like a church, just as this building will be a TV studio outfitted to look like a football stadium.

(Consider that a criticism of the former, not the latter.)

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:51 PM by Rick 323

Ads in the photo gallery? Tacky.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:53 PM by Rick 324

With that image on the front facade, it looks like the Cathedral of Peterson.

The rush be with you.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 8:56 PM by Rick 325

It doesn't excite me. But, I'm also not much of a football fan. Definitely looks like a big church.

The huge panels of outside walls with nothing on them are pretty boring. At least Target Field has variations of limestone and windows to break up the giant walls.

Biggest snicker from me is the image of the Gopher baseball game with the stands full of people!

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 9:48 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 326

Remember F_T_K the three most important things in life: Church, football and guns. The stadium covers the first two...lol

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 10:00 PM by luke Highlight this comment 327

With all of the triangular faces I see a bit of the McNamara Alumni Center at the U.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 10:12 PM by PNB Highlight this comment 328

I had that same thought; I just couldn't come up with the name.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 10:26 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 329

I was also reminded of that scavenger vehicle in the original Star Wars movie.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 10:27 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 330

Well, it is definitely unique, no argument there. I'm not sure what to think of the design. I neither love it or hate it. Really, I want to see much, much more before forming a firm opinion. Although I'm disappointed over the use of endzone video boards instead of a central set of screens above the field as in Dallas, all the other improvements to amenities and basic have me raring to go. Honestly, it blows my mind that this is actually happening. I figured we'd be talking about 2014 legislature stadium campaigns with full LA pressure getting turned up, note preparing for a new stadium.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 11:04 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 331

When you are looking at the north side of the stadium, from the north, it looks like a giant ship in some ways. Or a giant "Noah's Ark"

I like the fact that its unique and different. This stadium is going to feel more outdoors than any other domed or retractable roof stadium with all of the glass and natural light.

Still too early to judge the design fully, but it appears to be your typical NFL stadium with lots of club seats and suites meaning the "cheap seats" are pushed very high up. And as a result of the glass/windows on the west side of the stadium, the average fan lost out on some opportunities for additional "cheap seats" high above the west endzone. So for the average fan looking for affordable tickets, you are more than likely out of luck, which is no surprise considering the #1 priority from the Vikings is to maximize revenues with suites, club seats and other premium areas.

I like what I see so far and am pleasantly surprised and look forward to reviewing the renderings more in depth.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 11:22 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 332

The most important part, climate controlled, is there. So I'm happy! All the rest is mostly fluff. Yes, being outdoors is great when its nice out, but the days when the weather is perfect, sunny 65-75 dry with a light breeze, are few and far between.

What it looks like from the outside really isn't that important. The only thing you don't want is something that sticks out like a sore thumb. Ideally most buildings will mesh well with their surroundings. My first thought of this design, it will stick out strongly. Whether it's a sore thumb or not will be up to the beholder. I think it will stick out way more then the dome, but will hopefully look nice.

I don't think it will spawn much development. If that was your main concern you should of pushed hard for Arden Hills and ZygiVille.

Posted on May 13, 2013 at 11:45 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 333

I wonder if they are actually showing the real baseball orientation in these renderings -- some of which, I have to say, look rather hastily-made. If I remember correctly, a northwest orientation like that pictured is one of the least desirable (along with due west).

I seem to remember that there was a deadball park with this type of orientation that had to be abandoned because players were afraid of getting killed with a ball while looking directly into the sun. (I'll look for that story again.)

Maybe the roof mitigates that.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 12:18 AM by Rick 334

Dave,

The stadium on this site was sold to the public (by Rybak and others in Minneapolis government) as perfect for generating redevelopment in that neighborhood. (The same had been said of the Metrodome.)

Like you, I'm skeptical, especially after taking a closer look at this design, which appears to have essentially no relationship to its surroundings whatsoever. But if it fails, the site selection will once again have proven to be a 30-year (ultimately, a 60-year) mistake.

Apparently, the city will be releasing some neighborhood redevelopment plans of its own tomorrow, so perhaps there is yet some hope.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 12:24 AM by Rick 335

All of the club renderings look completely generic. These are probably just placeholders.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 12:26 AM by Rick 336

Wait, I'm just realizing that all but a couple of these renderings are just screen captures from the fly-through video.

That's pretty weird. These design unveilings typically have a whole lot more to them. Does anybody know if there was a physical model on display?

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 12:28 AM by Rick 337

Here's one of these images that always crack me up:


The sun is setting (or is it rising?) in the north. (The file name, which came from the Vikings site, may give a hint about its provenance: 'tempoverhead'.)

This is also a good image for studying the connections (or lack thereof) envisioned by the architects. It's almost Metrodome-esque in that regard. The city will have its work cut out.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 12:37 AM by Rick 338

By the way, how will drivers exiting from westbound I-94 get around the place...?

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 12:39 AM by Rick 339

Jorge center hung video display? In a stadium where they are forcing baseball to be played? Now THAT is dumb.
Even punts were hitting the screen in Dallas and they don't force baseball to be played in the Palace that Jerry Jones Built.
The boards at the USBank Stadium are still going to be 100 x 100. Dallas' boards are 180 feet long. So essentially they will be more than half the size at USBS

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 06:06 AM by luke Highlight this comment 340

As ludicrous as the center hung idea is, you have to think that HKS might have prepared for the possibility because of the single steel support in the center of the roof. They might have considered that is the Vikings didn't suck up to John Anderson and his cronies.

HOWEVER they did say this will be the most versatile stadium in the world. That I think is something we can be proud of.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 06:15 AM by luke Highlight this comment 341

People keep talking about the "wow factor" for this proposed stadium.

I'll tell you what would "wow" me - if the people who will profit from it pay for it.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 08:21 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 342

luke~
Actually, the video boards will be 120x50, so you're only off by 4000 sq feet.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 08:39 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 343

Rick~
I hadn't looked at that exterior image long enough to have the position of the sun register. Hilarious! At least that particular creative license is less likely to result in geographically challenged folks being disappointed than the skyline in center field renderings of Target Field was.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 08:41 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 344

All in all, I'm leaning towards liking the stadium design. The walls made it feel a little closed off on the back and sides and the clear roof on one side thing feels a little wrong to my more symmetrical sensibilities, but neither of those are huge things.

My two favorite things about it are: 1) that if executed as pictured, the stadium should feel much more open than any other domed/retractable stadium thanks to the clear roof and 2) that the team didn't go for a generic Lucas Oil retread. This is definitely more unique, and I'm all for that. Not quite as unique as the Oculus concept in Atlanta, but again, I think the feel of this one will be better than that retractable concept.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 08:45 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 345

I'm not a big shiny metal and glass fan, but this is an imaginative and unique design. Echoes the Weisman and the D/T Central Library. Shoots for iconic in the same way the Guthrie does.

But iconic does not translate into community cornerstone very well. Nothing about the building itself invites connections to other development (in the way that a Mission/Prairie-style design might have). But it's a huge sports facility not a park. The connections and development fostering are going to have to rely on the plaza and surrounding streetscape designs, I think.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 08:59 AM by BR Highlight this comment 346

Some other questions:

- Do you think they'll have some kind of snow removal system for the roof? Not going to see much sun if there are 5 inches of snow up there.

- Will there be other ways to enter/exit the staidum than the big glass doors? If the weather's nasty, they're not going to want those open at all, are they?

- Have they released any street-level pictures or design descriptions? What will people actually see at eye level when they approach and encircle the stadium? TF did a nice job of building in features like the murals on 5th Street.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 09:04 AM by BR Highlight this comment 347

I think this blows away any other fixed roof football stadium in play, and most of the retractable roofs as well due to the amount of natural sunlight that will fill the interior. If you can't be outside in the elements, the next best thing is to look out a window at the elements.

I wonder if there will be any wind issues when the big doors are open? Could this be a novelty we'll rarely see because the kickers and quarterbacks will complain?

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 09:22 AM by Fred Highlight this comment 348

I think this blows away any other fixed roof football stadium in play, and most of the retractable roofs as well due to the amount of natural sunlight that will fill the interior. If you can't be outside in the elements, the next best thing is to look out a window at the elements.

I wonder if there will be any wind issues when the big doors are open? Could this be a novelty we'll rarely see because the kickers and quarterbacks will complain?

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 09:23 AM by Fred Highlight this comment 349

BR-

The first thing the guy from HKS said was that the roof was designed to keep snow off. How it does that is probably a combination of sun, the steep slope of the roof, as well as the material that makes up the roof.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 09:29 AM by Fred Highlight this comment 350

According to "New Vikings Stadium Facts & Figures" at vikings.com, the doors opening to downtown will be the "largest glass pivoting doors in the world."

I've been hoping for awhile for a building which can lay claim to that title. Finally, gloriously, it's ours.

On a serious note - another question about the roof (which I like more and more every time I look at the rendering...): will there be a way to "draw the shade" over the transparent part? Is such functionality even necessary? I'm guessing the answer to both questions is "no," which is fine by me.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 09:46 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 351

Well...I heard 10,000 square feet...so naturally that's 100x100 there GoaUpher

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 12:52 PM by luke Highlight this comment 352

And I didnt know how high the board was in Dallas

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 1:04 PM by luke Highlight this comment 353

And I didnt know how high the board was in Dallas

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 1:04 PM by luke Highlight this comment 354

I have a feeling the exterior will look a lot better in real life compared to these renderings. The limestone exterior should give the building some depth, and texture. Overall I think I like how this looks, and I am super excited to watch amateur baseball for $5-10 underneath a sunny Feburary 2017 sky!

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 2:11 PM by Jp Highlight this comment 355

Well, talk about surrounding development has begun. Click the link.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 2:17 PM by BR Highlight this comment 356

Interesting....I like the idea of creating more green space in the urban core. This kind of looks like a mini-Central Park in the heart of the Minny Apple.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 2:29 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 357

Those renderings are very nice. And it sounds like some of the pieces for that type of development are sort of falling into place.

It kind of makes you wish that jail wasn't there. Imagine that park stretching three full city blocks and right to city hall...

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 2:31 PM by Rick 358

It just occurred to me that Wells Fargo probably wouldn't want to put a 6000 employees in a building right next to U.S. Bank Stadium. But if the stadium name is right, it's the absolutely perfect location...

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 3:06 PM by Rick 359

I'm curious to know how the skyway system will be connected....The new stadium looks to be at least 3 blocks away from the main skyway systems, and in between looks to be parking lots or other flat spaces.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 3:20 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 360

That's where the new development come in. One of today's development renderings shows a skyway between the stadium and the adjacent parking ramp (yet to be built). Preumably, this would lead through the new buildings until the rest of the skyway grid is reached.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 3:31 PM by Rick 361

Luke, good point about a centrally positioned scoreboard causing issues during baseball games. My first thought in reaction to that is it would be sad if a compromise on scoreboard position was made to baseball when it's football that pays the freight.

Regardless of the scoreboard's position, here are a few numbers to digest. The two Vikings scoreboards will be 50 x 120. Target Field's board in upper left is 57 x 101. The two scoreboards facing the sidelines on the centralized module at Cowboys Stadium are 72 x 160 (the two endzone facing boards are smaller). Some might say the boards in Dallas are obnoxiously large, but in NFL circles, bigger is better. The Vikings boards, given their position and frequency of use, are too small given the new standards.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 3:48 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 362

Thanks for crunching the numbers Jorge. Yeah..seems like they are small given current standards.
Here is another question: how big is the scoreboard at TCFBS? I am curious about the overall display size as well as the structure itself. I am thinking that if the overall scoreboard structure at TCFBS is about the size of the display at the new stadium, then yes, it is going to be small. Given the size of the stadium and the angle slope of the roof.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 4:24 PM by luke Highlight this comment 363

No matter how big those boards are, their placement is going to make it tough on the folks in the nosebleeds. But I don't think there's much in the way of alternatives.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 4:46 PM by Rick 364

luke~
Other than the sq footage being 12,000sqft not 10,000 and it being distributed across 2 boards of equal size, you were right on. =)

Agree that they seem small. I did a quick Wiki check and those boards are of a size that puts them around #20 overall. That said, they'll be #4 in size for NFL venues when completed. The scoreboard at TCFBS is 5184sqft (108x48) and TF is 5757sqft (101x57).

So in the end the scoreboards could be larger, but they aren't really small either.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 4:48 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 365

Rick~
Even if you're on the opposite endzone from the only board visible to you, they should be big enough to give you a decent/good view of things.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 4:50 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 366

That said, I don't think they are big enough to compete in a world where HDTV is king and everyone is trying to sell the in stadium experience as better. All you have to do is look at some of the Atlanta concept art on those 360 boards to see that 2 big but not huge boards aren't going to stack up over the long run.

Functional but not fantastic is how I'd describe these boards.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 4:52 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 367

Looking at the rankings, the Vikings (counting each of the two boards individually) will rank #6. The Cowboys, Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, and Patriots come in larger. It's admittedly a steep drop from there and the Vikes will have two big boards as opposed to the customary one. I wish they'd have gone bigger, especially since any stadium from the 1990s/2000s that can will in the near future. I predict 50 x 120 won't be considered big by mid next decade. However, given the need to place the boards at mid-level in order to keep it close for the lower deck seats, club areas, and boxes, a bigger board would mean a much higher upper deck and greater construction expenses.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 5:11 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 368

Somehow I missed the Broncos and Titans. My bad.

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 6:08 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 369

SUBMITTED for your approval: There have been those who have commented that the new stadium looks like a megachurch. Others have compared it to the Crystal Cathedral. WELL, I have done some searching. Those who mention the Crystal Cathedral are not that far off base.
Clinky for Exhibit A.
Exhibit B: CrystalCathedral

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 7:00 PM by luke Highlight this comment 370

I lurk at SkyscraperCity.com, a vast message board concerning architecture, buildings, construction, urban planning, and other such things. It features a large sports stadium sub board. On it, in the Vikings stadium thread, several posters have noticed a large truss at the non pivoting window end that appears to obstruct a good number of views. Now admittedly this is based on looking at the renderings and still shots of the flyover video. Both are pretty crude and don't necessarily offer proper perspective. This may be much ado about nothing. However, it's something worth watching as this process goes along.

Obstructed Views in New Vikings Stadium?

Posted on May 14, 2013 at 10:57 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 371

Used to be, on fancy airplanes, that you could watch in-flight moveis on central screens hung from the aisle ceiling. A few of those planes still exist. But 15 years ago, they started moving to individual in-seat screens mounted in the headrest of the seat in front of you. Lots of those planes still fly, and offer in-seat entertainment particularly on internaional and cross-country flights.

But the move now is toward individual hand-held screens (or wi-fi access for your own screens). That's where all entertainment is heading - you control the personal device, you pick what highlights to watch, what stats to pull up, etc.

Huge video screens? They'll be anachronistic soon enough, used mostly to show cartoon clapping hands to remind people that they're in a stadium full of other people. So don't worry too much that Jerry's screen in Big D will be bigger than ours...

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 08:48 AM by BR Highlight this comment 372

I love the new stadium! I think the thoughts about the scoreboards seeming too small seem spot on. I bet we see some adjustments in the final product. They did mention that there are going to be 1200 (?) HD screens around the concourses.

I really am excited about the combination of the new stadium and the Star Tribune blocks redevelopment. The new park will be awesome. I hear it will be the new place to tailgate before the game.

It's going to be an exciting few years to see everything happen on the east side of downtown.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 09:13 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 373

The video screens are the least of my worries. They can always put bigger ones in.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 12:19 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 374

I know people are excited about the Star Tribune blocks being redeveloped around the stadium, but this plan won't happen until Wells Fargo or someone else comes forward to occupy those office buildings.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 12:57 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 375

I'm really surprised people think 12,000 sq ft seems too small. Each will be larger than TF and there will be two of them! Plus all the ribbon boards.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 1:00 PM by Brandon Highlight this comment 376

At the end towards downtown, the renderings seem to show available space for a larger board. However, the other end won't be so easy. Sorry about being overly hung up on this one aspect of the stadium. However, I want this stadium to be as advanced as possible and worry about the Vikings unnecessarily hemming themselves in on this point.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 1:00 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 377

MinnPost has an interesting commentary about the conspicuous dearth of Wells Fargo executives at the unveiling of that redevelopment plan yesterday. So far, they have been unwilling to comment on it.

Could this be the dance of stadium naming rights?

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 1:02 PM by Rick 378

Still on the fence with this design. Seems to me that a building's architechure holds several purposes, but one should be that the design "says" what the building's purpose is. I'm not sure this design does that. From the exterior, it may be extremely difficult to tell that this is even a football stadium. (Megachurch? Performing arts center?) Perhaps the actual building will prove me wrong, but the exterior renderings make me think that this building is anything BUT a football stadium.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 379

I've been thinking about the scoreboard issue, and this may sound a little weird, but if the wifi in the place is good, and fans have access to stats and replays and such on their devices, scoreboards sort of start looking anachronistic.

They might not go away, but they will be considerably less essential.

I, for one, am perpetually frustrated by the busyness of all the boards at TF, and long ago switched to exclusively using my phone for stats and updates if I missed something. (They did finally solve all the signal strength issues sometime last summer.)

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 1:09 PM by Rick 380

TTH,

The facade actually looks to me like an anti-stadium -- in other words, trying consciously not to look like what it is.

As I've looked at this, my biggest concerns are about scale. It will likely be hugely overwhelming for people walking nearby, something which both the TF and TCFBS designs handily avoid.

It's also rather aggressively unfriendly to its surroundings. This is a pretty big disappointment, though not a surprise.

(I'm working on a review of the design right now...)

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 1:12 PM by Rick 381

Here's a link to Forsyth Barr Stadium in Dunedin, New Zealand. It holds about 32,000 and exists on a much smaller scale than the Vikings new stadium will. However, it has a clear, fixed roof made from the same material, ETFE, that the Vikings new home will use. On that basis, it's worth checking out.

Forsyth Stadium at Wikipedia

Google Image Search Results for Forsyth Barr Stadium

Forsyth Barr Stadium - Official Website

Forsyth Barr Stadium - Skyscrapercity Thread

A blog about Forsyth Barr Stadium that often takes a critical view of its financing, location, and other related factors as well other local issues not directly related to stadiums.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 3:49 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 382

TTH-

I'm probably in the minority when I say that I don't see why the design needs to "say" football stadium. I'm looking at many stadiums recently opened in other countries, and I like the fact that they aren't obvious sports stadiums. I think it's refreshing that the Vikings are willing to break the mold, to a certain extent, and design something original. I would've been upset if we were building Lucas Oil Stadium 2.0 or anything similar to that.

Jorge-

Thanks for the links. Very interesting to see all the natural light filling that stadium.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 4:14 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 383

How about those blankets to help out with the temp (92) at the game last night. Anyone notice they changed from "fleece" to "picnic" blankets?

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 4:24 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 384

Wow Forsyth Stadium has A real grass field didnt know that was possible guess it can be done.

Posted on May 15, 2013 at 11:32 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 385

One big greenhouse, I guess.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 02:44 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 386

Can you imagine Larry boy trying to grow that in the new queens stadium?? Be all dirt in about 6 months!

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 08:31 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 387

If it was all dirt, at least we wouldn't have to lsten to the incessant blathering about the pattern of the mowing.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 10:32 AM by terry Highlight this comment 388

Just to interrupt the Vikings stadium discussion and return to a prior topic for a minute...

I was looking at tix for this weekend and reviewing the "demand pricing" system that the Twins are using. It's got me a bit confused. They have 15 different seating categories, and 15 corresponding price levels. Comparing Friday night's prices in the various levels to Saturday's, Saturday's tix were generally but not universally more expensive. Tix in 10 of the seating categories are more expensive Saturday than Friday. That suggests that more tix are being sold for Saturday, that demand is higher. Ok, makes sense.

But tix cost the same in 2 seating areas and are actually cheaper in 3 areas. So Home plate box costs $76 Friday and $81 on Saturday, but Home Run Porch Terrace costs $37 Friday and just $31 on Saturday.

The team's pricing program must be looking at demand on a seating area-by-seatng area basis. But I have to say, as a fan, that makes very little sense to me. I understand fluctuating demand based on game/day but not by seating area. I think the number of seats sold for a given game in a given area has more to do with group sales frankly than with individual buying preferences. So, for example, if I'm willing to pay $30 for a ticket, I'll try to get the "best" seat I can, but if I select Left Field Bleachers it doesn't necessarily mean that I like that particular section more than the HR Porch Terrace, just that it was cheaper when I bought the tix and within my price range. It seems, though, that "demand pricing" looks at that purchase and adjusts the price in that area to reflect lower supply and higher "demand."

Makes theoretical, Economics 101 sense but ignores reality, imo. I think that the latter part of the equation is fundamentally flawed, as the "demand" that the team sees - in that particular seating area, compared to other areas - is largely based on price. If they increase the price in that area, people with the same $30 limit as I had will either buy in a different area or - and this is the kicker -not at all.

In other words, I think the demand-based pricing system is too complicated. It's seeing distinctions with no real meaning and adjusting prices incorrectly.

Or I just don't get it.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 10:37 AM by BR Highlight this comment 389

Buy the cheap seat and sit anywhere you want. Just like the good old days at the Met. Look for a huge empty section or sections and plop on down there.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 11:30 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 390

Did I miss a post about the new mowing pattern?

It is the old pattern, but significantly fewer strips. A line of 5 rows up the middle and into the outfield, and one set of ~5 strips going out to each outfield wall.

I had to look at pics of the old one to see how it was different, but sure enough it is. Go Larry!

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 12:26 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 391

BR,

totally with you. I hate the large range of prices and trying to figure "demand", well they have gone overboard.

What i really find frustrating is how they "didn't raise" season ticket prices, and while i am paying the same amount, i am no longer paying $30 a ticket per game in section 214. I am now paying $5 less than face value, so for this weekend i am paying $38 for $43 face value tickets. I have Saturdays game, which i am going to, and Sundays game which i am trying to sell, but i am not getting offers that come close to what i paid. AND if i look on the twins site now, same row, same section, they are charging $52 per ticket... WHAT?

Maybe they will buy my tickets back at $43 per ticket and they can resell for more since i am having no luck.

The face that my seats range in value from $20-$50 is crazy. and if they are going to do that, then charge the season ticket holders the lowest number, $20, for all games...

Sorry, disoriented rant over, back to work.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 12:35 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 392

Perhaps their area based demand pricing is an attempt to maximize premium seating sales. Better to have a fan pay for a reduced priced premium seat than a regular priced outfield seat. Provided of course their having problems with selling the Premium seats.

The two games I attended this year were in section 115. In that area most of the top 10 rows of sections 116 and 113 are empty the first few innings of the game. Then they slowly fill in while the Home Run Porch seats slowly empty. So If it were me I'd be trying to adjust prices in a way that entices fans to upgrade their seating areas when purchasing a ticket, rather than upgrading during the game.

I only wish I had the opportunity to demand price comparison shop. But the ADA seating is still near sold out each game making comparison shopping not possible. I still haven't been able to purchase a Home Plate Terrace ticket since TF opened.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 1:04 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 393

Dave,

I have about 15 games left on the year to sell in Home Plate Terrace, sec 214, including Sunday email me if you want to see my list

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 1:13 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 394

I may be interested in some Thrillhouse, proviced they are wheelchair row seats? If not, then I wouldn't be able to use them.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 1:26 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 395

provided ...

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 1:27 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 396

sorry Dave, they are not, they are behind home plate row 3, no wheel chair spots in that section.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 1:38 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 397

OK seriously, they mow the grass a different way and no one cares?

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 8:29 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 398

Also following up on an earlier topic, the Siebert Field lead... I went to this afternoon's game (first one since the opening weekend against Ohio State) and saw a few changes. Looks like they've dug up that berm area over the LF fence. The outfield fences are also adorned with retired numbers, NCAA championship and CWS years, and total number of Big Ten titles, B1G tourney titles and NCAA appearances. And a couple new ads from Mortenson and Subway.

Functional, still, not overwhelming.

Posted on May 16, 2013 at 9:02 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 399

I am a non-smoker, but what an embarrassment by the state of Minnesota and Governor Dayton. Let's tax the smokers for the state's portion of the new Vikings stadium....Anyone with common sense could have said the e-pulltabs were not an adequate funding source. And the best plan of all, racino, was never a possibility because it was so simple and made too much sense.

All I can say is that they better allow smoking in designated areas at the new stadium if they are going to expect smokers to pay for the state's portion of the new stadium. And this is coming from a non-smoker.

The whole Vikings stadium deal was a fraud from the very start.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 07:51 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 400

I still think the best plan was to put slots in the airport. Get a ton of bored, passing through, non-Minnesotans to help pay for our stadium. Maybe there are regulatory issues with that, but it seemed like easy money to me.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 08:39 AM by BR Highlight this comment 401

The legislators didn't want to feel the wrath of the voters - or those face-painted yahoos in the capitol hallways - if they didn't get a stadium deal done. But at the same time the anti-tax crowd couldn't allow a tax, which would have been a much more reliable source of funding than any new gambling. They were caught between a rock and a hard place. Coming up with several hundred million extra dollars without raising or imposing a tax is a recipe for the kind of "smoke and mirrros" funding formula we got with e-pulltabs.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 09:49 AM by terry Highlight this comment 402

Just let them build the downtown casino in Block E, have it run by MN State lottery, just like Kansas did. click link to read cnn article

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 10:34 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 403

oops, time.com, not cnn, dont want to be liar, otherwise i might have to run for office

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 10:35 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 404

Terry your comment made me think that would be a great title for a book about the Vike's Stadium, "Smoke and Mirrors....and Pulltabs". Maybe Pat Reusse can write it.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM by Jon Highlight this comment 405

I agree with Thrillhouse, except put it in the old West building in St. Paul, not the toliet that is Block E.

More interesting is that they are going to divert the money St. Paul repays the state back into the Xcel Energy Center for improvements. At this point they should just save the $160m on Target Center, tear it down and put the Wolves at Xcel. Save everyone the money, and get rid of the compition. Minneapolis would have the Twins, Gophers, and Vikings, the biggest draws, and St. Paul get the Wild and Timberwolves. It would be an equal deal and save everyone a great deal of money.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM by Duffman Highlight this comment 406

The Xcel Energy center's sightlines are no more suited to basketball than the Dome's are to baseball. The Timberwolves also have a heavy corporate season ticket base in downtown Minneapolis that wouldn't take kindly to a move. It's one thing for those fans to stay downtown, grab dinner and drinks, and then walk to the arena. It's another to drive across the metro area at peak rush hour for the game and then get home, often in points west or south of Minneapolis, much later.

I admit that the Wild have plenty of Minneapolis corporate and suburban fans, but still think going to St. Paul would cost the Twolves at the gate. The two teams have different fan bases with little crossover in the way the Gophers, Vikes, and Twins crossover. The journey's obstacles are mental as well as geographic. I'll also add that while not in as rough shape as Target Center, the Xcel Energy Center is also beginning to look a bit worn and dated. The main scoreboard in particular is behind the times now. Both buildings could use refreshing.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 2:01 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 407

Jorge, I don't understand this... "The Xcel Energy center's sightlines are no more suited to basketball than the Dome's are to baseball." To me the reason baseball at the Dome was bad was that all the seats faced straight out. Making most of them centered on CF rather than the pitcher or home plate. At the Xcel wouldn't the basketball court be placed in the center of the rink, then filled in with flat seats. Wouldn't most seats be aimed at center court?

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 408

I may have been a tad over dramatic with the Dome/baseball comparison, but the point stands. The sightlines for hockey and basketball are similar, but differ. An NHL rink is 200 feet long by 85 feet wide. An NBA court is 94 feet long by 50 feet wide. Target Center is meant for basketball and brings the fixed seats closer to the floor than would be the case at the Xcel Center. In particular, the dead space behind the baskets leading to the hockey end boards pushes thousands of fixed seats further from the action when a court sits on a hockey sized surface.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 2:45 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 409

They have had hockey at Target Center before, showing it is not very different. Kind of like a concert at Xcel. I think it really would be ok... I think the bigger point is, as you said, the fan base in more Minneapolis business based. Many would not transfer to St Paul.

What do you think the chances are they play all 3 this weekend? Forecast for lots of rain. I will be behind the BoSox dugout tonight. Praying for no rain. :)

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 3:48 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 410

Rain should be cleared out by 6:00 PM tonight, so you are good for tonight. looks like spotty rain all weekend, so i think all 3 get played, rain delay sunday? maybe.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 3:54 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 411

When Hockey is played at Target Center, there are several rows removed at the end and on the side. The floor is then hydrolically raised to create more hockey friendly sightlines. This unique aspect of the building was highly touted upon construction in the event the North Stars ever wished to leave Met Center to come downtown. I know of no other arena with this feature. The Xcel Center is locked into hockey format with no such radical configuration.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 4:32 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 412

Jorge - indeed you are correct about TC and hockey. The North Stars did want to move to TC back in the day. From what I remember hearing, Norm Greed had a whole bunch of stipulations: 10% of gate as rent, so much percentage of ads, parking, what have you.

So - he sends the deal to Marv and Harv (Twolves owners at the time) and they essentially met EVERY one of his demands. Greed is sitting in his office with Pat Forceia, looks at this positive response from Marv and Harv, and in two seconds tells Forceia, "This is not going to work".

I read about that in Jay Weiner's book Stadium Games. I HATE reading that story because it pisses me off every time. We could still have the North Stars today if it wasn't for a low-down, greedy owner.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 8:39 PM by luke Highlight this comment 413

Clicky for the excerpt from the book I mentioned. It tells the whole sordid story.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 8:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 414

As I recall, when there was talk of both the North Stars and Timberwolves sharing a building, there were several points of contention centering on scheduling priorities and suite and fixed ad revenues. Who would sell them; who would approve them, and how would the revenues be split. I see no reason why two tenants at the Xcel Center wouldn’t run into the same issues. While hockey and basketball teams elsewhere have worked out these differences and seem to thrive, in the Twin Cities market, the two teams have become accustomed to having the run of their respective buildings.

It would certainly make sense, but I’d predict that both sides would prove too intractable at this point to hammer out a workable arrangement.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 8:46 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 415

It's been years since I cracked open that book, Luke. Upon rereading the excerpt you linked to, it's clear that my powers of recollection were not complete.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 8:51 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 416

Its been a while for me too...but that story always stuck with me.
Matter of fact, if memory serves correctly, the Wolves wanted to share the Met with the Stars before the NBA made the Wolves build a new arena- as the other three cities were doing the same.

But i agree, both the Wild and Wolves have been apart for so long, working it out now would be a nightmare. The Bulls and Blackhawks, Rangers/Knicks, Lakers/Kings have done it for years and it works for them, but here...it would not.

Posted on May 17, 2013 at 10:32 PM by luke Highlight this comment 417

No one here cares about grass mowing anymore, but did anyone notice the KTWIN logo super-imposed on the batter's eye on the wide camera shots?

As far as I know it just appeared over the weekend.

Posted on May 19, 2013 at 4:36 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 418

Didn't see KTWIN. Did see Carrier.

Posted on May 19, 2013 at 4:49 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 419

Been seeing them for quite a while now. Perhaps since the beginning of the season.

Posted on May 19, 2013 at 7:21 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 420

Interesting. I guess it's something different than I've seen anywhere else. Makes me think the big ugly black monster won't see trees anytime soon.

Posted on May 19, 2013 at 9:10 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 421

Maybe they'll superimpose the trees?? So they can turn them on and off at will (for the batters that complained about the trees).

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 06:42 AM by luke Highlight this comment 422

So FSN is giving Target Field the Chet's Shoes treatment? How wonderfully considerate of them.

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 09:14 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 423

I remember when Target Field opened in 2010 and Dave St Peter talked about how they did not want excessive signage/advertising at Target Field and how they were focused on the "4 founding partners" in US Bank,Treasure Island, Best Buy, Target in addition to Anheuser Busch.

Now that attendance has plummeted since 2010-2011, we are seeing all kinds of new ads just like the Metrodome days. Great Clips Great Seats, Thomson Reuters Champions Club, they have ads painted on the walls of the bullpen. Why have the 7th inning stretch when you can have the "Lexus 7th inning stretch". You can't have the Twins radio network, it's the Treasure Island Baseball network.

Sports has become such a joke with all of the advertising these days.

Anyone hear about the Mother's Day pink bat fiasco with MLB/Louisville Slugger/Max Bat? (click link)

We all know, MLB promotes pink on Mother's Day to raise awareness for breast cancer.
Basically, Louisville Slugger paid MLB so only their logo could be put on the pink bats. So some players, including Trevor Plouffe, had Max Bat brands and were not allowed to use their bats because the Max Bat logo was painted on the pink bat.

Of course MLB and Louisville Slugger reversed course and allowed all bats in return for a donation to the Suzan G Komen foundation or some other agreement.

The whole idea is to promote awareness for breast cancer and find a cure but MLB/Louisville slugger seemed to think its all about money and corporate greed. And that's the direction we are heading these days unfortunately.

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 09:54 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 424

I remember when Target Field opened in 2010 and Dave St Peter talked about how they did not want excessive signage/advertising at Target Field and how they were focused on the "4 founding partners" in US Bank,Treasure Island, Best Buy, Target in addition to Anheuser Busch.

Now that attendance has plummeted since 2010-2011, we are seeing all kinds of new ads just like the Metrodome days. Great Clips Great Seats, Thomson Reuters Champions Club, they have ads painted on the walls of the bullpen. Why have the 7th inning stretch when you can have the "Lexus 7th inning stretch". You can't have the Twins radio network, it's the Treasure Island Baseball network.

Sports has become such a joke with all of the advertising these days.

Anyone hear about the Mother's Day pink bat fiasco with MLB/Louisville Slugger/Max Bat? (click link)

We all know, MLB promotes pink on Mother's Day to raise awareness for breast cancer.
Basically, Louisville Slugger paid MLB so only their logo could be put on the pink bats. So some players, including Trevor Plouffe, had Max Bat brands and were not allowed to use their bats because the Max Bat logo was painted on the pink bat.

Of course MLB and Louisville Slugger reversed course and allowed all bats in return for a donation to the Suzan G Komen foundation or some other agreement.

The whole idea is to promote awareness for breast cancer and find a cure but MLB/Louisville slugger seemed to think its all about money and corporate greed. And that's the direction we are heading these days unfortunately.

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 09:54 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 425

This may have been answered earlier in this or another forum, but what are the two baseballs on the ground on the right and left sides of the batter eye? Flowers?

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 1:47 PM by hofflalu Highlight this comment 426

Pretty sure we've done the whole "advertisements are ruining the game" bit in the past. Suffice it to say, it's not a new phenomenon. Check out the linked pic of Fenway's Left Field Wall before it became the "Green" Monster.

And "Corporate greed" - a clear redundancy - isn't new, either.

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 2:44 PM by BR Highlight this comment 427

I don't get too worked up about the advertising stuff, even on TV. It's a balancing act, and when the gate receipts are down, you have to make them up some way.

But I will say that when I saw a College World Series game in Omaha last summer, the utter lack of advertisement was quite a refreshingly wonderful experience. We had conversations between innings, and felt a little bit like we were watching a pick-up game somewhere with really good players.

I wish that teams could make money by going advertising-free, but it's pretty hard to imagine. I can't believe fans would pick up that cost through increased ticket prices. And, if they did, I can't imagine the teams not giving in to adding back as many advertisements as they could get away with.

All I can say is, thank God baseball is more enlightened than NASCAR -- though for how long remains anyone's guess.

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 3:11 PM by Rick 428

As has been mentioned before, MLB has given consideration to allowing "subdued" and "tasteful" advertising on uniforms.

On another note --- how many folks waited out the 3 hour rain delay?

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 429

"Maybe they'll superimpose the trees?? So they can turn them on and off at will (for the batters that complained about the trees)."

They could show the trees all the time, since the batters wouldn't see them anyway. But it might silence what's left of the disappearing trees hubbub. If that worked, maybe they could superimpose a checkerboard grass pattern as well.

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 6:20 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 430

Anyone else getting as tired as I am of watching Twins starters giving up crooked numbers in the first inning? I feel like I'm in "Groundhog Day", reliving 2012 over and over.

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 6:35 PM by terry Highlight this comment 431

BBtT

Posted on May 20, 2013 at 11:10 PM by Sandy Highlight this comment 432

I think we are starting to see the decline that most of us anticipated. The first month was probably an aberration, what we have seen the last two weeks is more like the 2013 Twins we expected and that is lack of pitching and lack of clutch hitting with a lot of raw talent that is developing. It will soon be time to start shopping players such as Morneau, Plouffe and Willingham.

This 9-game road trip will say a lot and last night was not a very good start. At least they get lucky and avoid Verlander in the 4-game series at Detroit.

You just aren't going to win many games when you can't hit or pitch. All you need to do is look at these batting averages and ERA's.

Dozier .205
Parmelee .200
Willingham .200
Doumit .218
Hicks .144
Ploufee .254

Diamond 4.99
Worley 6.20
Pelfrey 6.57
Correia 3.90
Hernandez 5.85

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 08:18 AM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 433

That's embarrassing.

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 09:16 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 434

They'll keep working in the prospects. Gibson's going to come up soon, to take Hernandez's place in the rotation. (I have to say, Hernandez got hosed by the defense in his last start - Florimon botched one and Hicks dropped a catchable ball. He's not great, but he might actually be better than PElfrey/Worley right now. Anyway...)

It will be intersting to see if they move Morneau or Willingham. Is Parmalee the answer to any positional question? What if Morneau would take a 2 year/$24M deal similar to what the older Adam Laroche resigned with Washington for this past offseason? Would you do that? Or tender him at the $13.5M or so level and take a comp pick if he signs elsewhere?

Either option would pay him less than he's currently getting. If your answer is no, what do you think they'll realistically get in a trade for half a Morneau season? And who else would you like them to spend some money on? Who do you want at first base and in the middle of the order?

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 09:17 AM by BR Highlight this comment 435

Winona, I like your idea about superimposing an image of the trees - maybe holograms.

Or why not turn the flower bed under the batter's eye into a movable platform - bring back real trees that could be visible in all their glory between innings, but discreetly lowered out of sight when our sensitive players are at bat.

BBtT

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 10:17 AM by Clark Addison Highlight this comment 436

The Mendoza Twins.

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 11:37 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 437

I just discovered that the Twins still have a Nishioka jersey in their online store. Only $99.99!

That just seems so wrong...

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 3:05 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 438

LOL. that's like the Vikings selling a Herschel Walker jersey. Or the Two lives selling a Pooh Richardson jersey.

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 4:06 PM by luke Highlight this comment 439

Jesus Christ my smartphone is dumb. How about the TWOLVES selling a Pooh Richardson jersey.

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 4:07 PM by luke Highlight this comment 440

We have no No. 1, No. 2 and really no No. 3 starting pitcher. Our best guys are hitting .200. The shine is off of TF. Good luck, Twins management!

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 7:31 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 441

The only people still watching the Twins are my octogenarian parents.

Posted on May 21, 2013 at 8:32 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 442

Is this the year they finally break that 100 loss barrier? The games where they get blown out and go 1 for 15 with RISP as they did Sunday and Monday are bad enough, but the games they should have won, like last night's, are even worse.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 01:57 AM by terry Highlight this comment 443

It would help if they had a few leaders on the team.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 08:48 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 444

Trade Morneau right now while he's hot.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 09:12 AM by Jon Highlight this comment 445

Well if was fun for the first few weeks! But the wheels have fallen off the cart. Time to blow this thing up? Any market for the catcher?? I think a 5 year rebuild is in order. I agree on trading Morneau. Maybe time for MR Whipple to go also. How long can Gardy go with we battled our tails off? Larry has to be nervous with the Big Ten college tournament at TF! Will this be too much for Larry? Meanwhile enjoy the 100 loss season and sit where you want at TF. Back to the good old days of crowds in the 20's!!!!

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 10:21 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 446

"5 year rebuild"?? Clearly, somebody isn't reading their minor league reports.

But Gardy (who, by the way, looks nothing like Dick Wilson) is toast if the rest of the season looks anything like the last 10 days.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 11:11 AM by Rick 447

The horrible personnel moves they've made in recent years are really coming home to roost. J.J. Hardy for some pitcher who couldn't find the strike zone with a GPS system? OUCH!

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 11:29 AM by terry Highlight this comment 448

Chose watching last night's game instead of fishing in the rain last night. (Another opportunity lost for both me and the team...) Picked it up after the rain delay and was all set to hit the rack as soon as Perkins records that final out... Oh. Hmm... do I stay up watch the extras? After the Twins were retired in the 10th, I knew I need not continue. The ending was easily written without losing any more shuteye.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 11:34 AM by schweady Highlight this comment 449

"Chose watching last night's game instead of fishing in the rain last night."
Did I mention that last night's game was played played last night? :) Oh, for an 'Edit' button...

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 11:41 AM by schweady Highlight this comment 450

Looks like we can put the Revere for Worley trade into the same category as the Hardy for Hoey trade. The Vanimal is going to get someone in the bleachers killed.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 12:31 PM by terry Highlight this comment 451

Vanimal will be just fine....after he gets with a team that has a real pitching coach.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 12:36 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 452

Crazy background for that Gattis fellow (who is the player d'jour crushing us)...

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 453

Dont you have to build something to have a rebuild?

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 2:11 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 454

Twink win o meter now at 66 games and dropping like its hot!

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 2:15 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 455

Wow looks like about 20 people at TF today watching the Gopher game! Larry has to be depressed watching those college kids rip into his masterpiece in the constant rain and mist. Did they even open up the concession stands?. Why play at TF don't they have a brand new ballpark?

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 2:17 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 456

There are no quick fixes for what ails the Twins because they utterly lack the starting pitching required for even a respectable major league staff. Minnesota is never going to be high on the list for any really good pitchers in free agency or with the power to at least partially dictate their landing spot in a trade. This club has to create and nurture pitching internally. Rather than attracting the outsiders, the Target Field money was meant to enable the Twins to retain homegrown talent. Unfortunately the Twins' systematic failure to develop even passable starting pitchers has undermined the entire program. Until they get that fixed, and it'll take years, no one should hope for more than a freak wildcard run.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 2:27 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 457

I like how they decided not to give Gibson a chance until he becomes more consistant. He has a good start and then a bad start. He needs to take a page from Twins Opening Day starter Vance "the Vanimal" Worley and have consistant bad starts. When I hear names like Deduno, PJ Walters, DeVries, Hendricks (what? No Blackburn???)...the heart and soul of major league worst 2012 pitching staff being tossed around to replace the second worst major league worst 2013 pitching staff (who ironically the 2013 staff was brought in to replace the 2012 staff)........that doesnt sound too promising. And the supposed only sure thing in the off season (as he was touted) Diamond has resorted to what we saw last 2 1/2 months of last season-representative of a sh*tty pitching staff made up of cast offs and has beens. We may as well name Tommy John as a starter-I have seen his name mentioned the most w/ our pitchers.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 3:40 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 458

Twinfan, from your previous post you know that the Big Ten Tournament is going on at Target Field. However, you still asked why the Gophers didn't play at their new ballpark today. Do you just post stupid things for something to do?

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 4:54 PM by FD Highlight this comment 459

The Vanimal will be pitching for the Rochester Red Wings in the immediate future. Not sure who is being brought up to take his roster spot. Anything this side of a batting tee would be an improvement.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 6:09 PM by terry Highlight this comment 460

twinkfan: did you eat paint chips as a child? or are you and luke long, lost twins? it has to be one of these things. me shaking my head......

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 6:50 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 461

Not even the All Star Game will help season ticket sales next year if this keeps up. I believe the Twins have now got the second-fastest-loss-of-new-ballpark-effect and the only reason they don't have first place is because of Loria's latest FU to Marlns fans.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 9:48 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 462

Beta- at least I knew the Big Ten tourney was at TF...lol, therefore would explain why the Rodents werent at Siebert, as to Twinks' query.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 10:00 PM by luke Highlight this comment 463

Isnt Blackburn still recovering from surgery. That could be why his name isnt mentioned as a call up.

Posted on May 22, 2013 at 10:26 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 464

Don't think it was paint chips - probably has more to do with a steady diet of Holiday dogs...

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 08:19 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 465

Twins fans are getting hosed. I understand that money doesn't guarantee winning, but the team's payroll is 21st in baseball, and it's not because they're breaking oin a half dozen stud prospects. They're going cheap at about 10 roster spots with journeyman players. They're behind the Pirates and Royals in payroll, for cryin' out loud.

Sure, Tampa, Oakland and Cleveland have lowert payrolls, but only Tampa of those teams has been consistently competitive over the past 5 years. Part of that is that Tampa was awful for a decade and drafted with numerous high picks. Part is that their front office is now one of the best in the game. But they're the exception.

More typical is Detroit. They developed a couple of stars and role players. They traded for a young star and a couple of other young, solid contributors.

And they've signed big name free agents. This past offseason, they added Sanchez even though they already had Verlander and solid #2 and 3 starters, all of whom were better than any starter the Twins had. The result? They've been the best overall team in the division for 3 years, and a legit World Series contender. But they also have a payroll almost $70M higher than the Twins.

Not all of Detroit's moves have paid off, but if you only sign your own players, then you are going to go through some serious droughts. You HAVE to spend money and ultimately trade a few prospects to become and remain competitive.

The Twins' payroll is at least $20M lower than it should be in a new ballpark. That's Sanchez and, say, Jeremy Guthrie, instead of Correia and Pelfrey, in the rotation.

The contracts those guys signed were pricey; FA pitchers always cost "too much." But what's the price of not signing decent pitchers? A loss of wins and competitiveness. Those two pitchers would not make the Twins playoff contenders, but they'd be solid starters who'd still be in the rotation even if Meyer, Mays and Gibson all develop quickly. And the team would be far more capable of competing on a daily basis than they are now.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 08:43 AM by BR Highlight this comment 466

jfh I believe the Twins have now got the second-fastest-loss-of-new-ballpark-effect and the only reason they don't have first place is because of Loria's latest FU to Marlns fans.

You are forgetting the Mets. They dropped from 92% capacity in year 1 to 77% and then to 72% and 67%. Cincinnati didn't even get a new ballpark bounce, opening to 69% capacity in year one and have no seasons even above 70%. The Nationals opened at 69% and dropped to 54% the following year. Despite their playoff run of last year they still only managed to fill the park at a 72% rate.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 09:40 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 467

Watching the Gophers yesterday was like seeing Bigfoot or Nessie, we got to see a clutch at bat in a big spot at Target Field! I had no idea it could be done!

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 09:51 AM by Eric Highlight this comment 468

Why should the Rodents play at TF? No reason they can't host the big 10 tourney on the next turf? They draw like 50 fans to the park. Play all the games a Siebert and save Larrys grass man!

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 10:04 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 469

With the Twins still sitting at 20,000+ full season equivalents, they are not doing bad at all for attendance as far as tickets sold.

Now, actual fans in attendance, that is another issue.

But until the fans quit buying tickets, quit watching/listening to games on tv/radio, or quit buying merchandise, the ownership group and front office have no reason to do anything to improve the team on the field.

Why the Twins still have 20,000+ FSE's is beyond me. I dumped my season tickets last year because I refuse to give this organization 100's of my dollars.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 11:05 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 470

Ah twinfan, you don't let common sense or facts stop you I see.

1) The tournament has been at a neutral site since 2009. And if the tourny were being played on non-neutral site rules the Gophers would never have hosted the tournament at Siebert field b/c they didn't win the regular season title.
2)The Big Ten selected Target Field as this season's neutral site. Minnesota has no part in it. Next season it will be at TDS Ameritrade in Omaha. Heads up, Nebraska will have no part in that decision either.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 11:13 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 471

Are you sure GoAUpher? I thought the decision to play the tourney at TF was part of the broader overall conspiracy by the Trilateral commission and others to mesmerize the masses with Larry DeVito's lawn mowing pattern.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 12:08 PM by terry Highlight this comment 472

I am regretting my decision to keep season tickets. We do a group split into 8 shares, and 2 shares dropped, this year, we all just should of done so.

The damn all star game will probably keep our group again for one more year. But if everyone else in my group wants out, i will be happy to be out at as well. trying to sell the extra shares just to break even is a nightmare this year.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 12:09 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 473

Boy, can you imagine what would have happened to the STH base after last year if the ASG wasn't in the mix? If you're the Twins, you're probably looking at the second half of next season, trying to figure out what you can do to minimize the expected collapse of sales once that ASG is in the books.

Which leads me to wonder if replacing the coaching staff may be the actual strategic plan. If that had been done this past offseason, all the bloom would be off that particular rose by the middle of next year. But waiting until this coming offseason could be pretty good timing.

Then you get all the studs up from the minors next summer and you have a chance to create a buzz which could give fans a little bit of hope for 2015.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 1:02 PM by Rick 474

terry, everyone knows that the Trilateral commission makes a killing on Holiday hot dogs.

Oh, God. Now I've said too much...

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 1:04 PM by Rick 475

Seems silly to play those games in a big league park is all I'm saying! Thank God it's not raining! Larry leaping with Joy! Rick had a delicious Holiday Johnsonville brat for lunch! Very tasty. My fist game this year in May 31st. I called the Holiday station near the yard to make sure they will have plenty on hand to load up before the game. Twins don't seem to mind I use their condiments either. Although I did get a look from the concession guy when I asked for some onions!

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 1:20 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 476

I don't know why you think I had a brat for lunch -- or is there a comma missing from that sentence?

For the record, I had a Culver's North Atlantic Cod sandwich for lunch. I swear it's the best fish in town. The TF fish-and-chips, while sure tasty, wasn't nearly as good.

And you're sounding perilously close to suggesting that the Twins should start charging for condiments. Let's try not to give them any new ideas for revenue streams.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 1:28 PM by Rick 477

Oops meant I had a brat! I had Macs fish and chips at the St Paul location a couple of weeks ago. Wasn't to bad big portions but almost $9.00 for the 2 fish combo!

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 1:46 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 478

I see TF has added a second concert this year July 26th with Soul Asylum, Big Head Todd and a couple others. Stage limited to along 3rd base line. Larry is going to be a busy man in early and late July. Course with only 9 home games the entire month what else you going to do?

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 2:54 PM by twinkfan (aka twinfan) Highlight this comment 479

Oh no, more goat ropping!

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 3:22 PM by Chad Highlight this comment 480

Rick,

the coaching move might keep some STH, or even bring in new ones, but i think the only thing that will sustain 20K and above is a winning team after the All Star Game. If they can't even be 500, the numbers will drop fast. (at least one group will be dropping!)

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 4:19 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 481

Q: "How long can Gardy go with we battled our tails off?"

A: Going on three years now.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 5:11 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 482

Speaking of food, they added a roast beef and cheddar sandwhich, in the Legends Club anyway. Save the $13 and if you're hungry buy a Tony O's for $10. It's a rip off at $3 more than Tony O's, and probably not even worth $10 in the ballpark world.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 5:38 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 483

That concert lineup is fitting, considering the team is playing like it is 1996 all over again.

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 5:48 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 484

(rimshot)

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 11:29 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 485

Stevie - you're right, I forgot the Mets and Citi field. Both NY team's STH 's have really gotten a raw deal, so at least Twins STH aren't in that boat.

Folling what Rick said, I expect a massive nosedive in FTE in the 2014 offseason unless some miracle occurs. The Twins need to have a plan, and have STHs buy into it, not just flail around aimlessly. As for the FA market, sometimes you have to go in, if to do nothing else to silence the critics that you aren't doing enough. And replacing Gardy and/or the coaching staff is a smokescreen, not a solution.

I don't think I will sell my LC seats any time soon, but if I don't see something significant between now and next July, my HPB seats won't be renewed for 2015. I'm getting pretty discouraged to see the Twins lose every time I fly in to town and it might not be worth trying to keep the seats until we move to the area, especially if I'll be able to get great seats if we are going to be in rebuild mode for the next five years are so.

I predict 14K-16k FTE for 2015 and about 13K for 2016 ... Any one think that is unfair?

Posted on May 23, 2013 at 11:35 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 486

Last night was the game they had a chance to win and probably should have won. If the pattern holds true to form, the next three games will be blow-outs.

Posted on May 24, 2013 at 07:48 AM by terry Highlight this comment 487

JFH...do you have your HPB seats in a transferrable entity? The Twins will say you can't transfer ownership of seats, but you can change the name of an organization that owns them, and you can change the contact person for that organization.

This is really important when registering seats, and I'm sure few understand it.

Posted on May 24, 2013 at 08:29 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 488

Mmmm, snow cones and toilets. Germs, germs, germs. You germophobes don't stand a chance! Linky.

Probably nothing new to all of us but its worth a gross out now and then.

Posted on May 24, 2013 at 12:50 PM by jared Highlight this comment 489

Schematics for the new stadium....in case anyone likes to nerd out over this stuff like me.

Posted on May 24, 2013 at 2:32 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 490

Per the cross-section views (pg 16-19), it looks like the are going to try and avoid the annoying site issues people in first few rows have with the guard rails:

3/4" TEMPERED GLASS
GUARDRAIL MOUNTED ON
ALUMN FLAT BAR BASE

It sounds like it will be only a sheet of glass, only mounted on the bottom.

Posted on May 24, 2013 at 2:44 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 491

Thanks for the link Dre - I could look at those all day. It appears the last row in the upper deck is 156' above the playing field.
Does anyone know how high the Metrodome's is for comparison? I think I remember hearing 115' when Target Field was being built but am not for sure.

Posted on May 24, 2013 at 5:52 PM by J2K Highlight this comment 492

J2K...my memory is not what it once was, BUT, I do remember reading someplace that the roof at the Dome at its highest, is 195' from the playing surface. So...given that, and the slope of the Dome, it would seem to me that the last row in the upper deck at the Dome might be about the same 156'...give or take a couple feet??

Posted on May 24, 2013 at 9:00 PM by luke Highlight this comment 493

jctwins - yes, there are/should be. I'm sure I'll post here before I go that route to see if you or anyone is interested.

But I would rather the team improve to the point it isn't so hard to justify remaining a season ticket holder beyond the ASG. :)

Posted on May 24, 2013 at 10:37 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 494

Last night provided the marketing department with a new theme. "See history made! The way the Twins are hitting, on any given night, you have a better than normal chance of seeing a no-hitter thrown".

Posted on May 25, 2013 at 08:28 AM by terry Highlight this comment 495

Thanks for the link DreDogg!. A few observations:

- The main concourse is not exactly wide open all the way around. The suites on that level (and their associated VIP entry spaces) create definite bottlenecks, some of which look to be under 30 feet wide. (How wide are the Metrodome concourses?)

- Field level suites, "executive level" suites, main concourse level suites, a few "lower club level" suites, "upper" suites. And, as I'm sure is the case at most other new NFL playpens, all lower bowl seating on the sidelines appears to be exclusive access club seating. Just in case anyone had any doubt as to why this place is being built...

Posted on May 25, 2013 at 12:35 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 496

Expectorate...I believe the concourses at Dumpty are 22 feet wide. Pretty tight.

Posted on May 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM by luke Highlight this comment 497

I really don't see the room for an additional 7,000 seats for a Super Bowl.

Posted on May 25, 2013 at 2:51 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 498

Thanks JFH, I'm sure I'll still be here when the time comes.

Posted on May 25, 2013 at 6:50 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 499

The Big Ten baseball tourney is getting as much mileage out of TF as possible - 11 inning game tonight, and tomorrow's "if necessary" game will indeed be necessary.

GBR

Posted on May 25, 2013 at 11:13 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 500

64 career ejections for Gardy. Tom Kelly is not exactly warm and fuzzy and yet he almost never got ejected. Other than entertaining the crowd, is there anything beneficial about the manager getting ejected?

Posted on May 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM by terry Highlight this comment 501

I dont think so Terry...I think its all for show.
How many career ejections did TK get? I bet we could count all of them on one hand. I cant remember TK ever being ejected.

Posted on May 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM by luke Highlight this comment 502

TK was ejected 5 times and never twice in the same year.

Posted on May 26, 2013 at 2:55 PM by tk Highlight this comment 503

So literally...we can count on one hand...lol. thanks tk

Posted on May 26, 2013 at 4:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 504

I'm sure Rick will know the details, but I believe the "View" deck at TF is 116' and that it's about equal in height to the Dome (based on an old lay-over schematic at Minnpost). 156' is waaay up there.

Posted on May 28, 2013 at 09:07 AM by BR Highlight this comment 505

Disappointing that MLB had to ruin the "Interleague Rivalry" weekend.

Attendence would be much higher if these Twins-Brewers games were on weekends like in years past.

Yesterday's crowd was decent but it was also a holiday. I can't imagine the crowds being very good the rest of the week.

Either do one four-game series on a Thursday-Sunday and alternate the site each year or do 6 games as in years past over two weekends. I think we can all give up one or two Royals, Indians, Tigers or White Sox games in favor of two more games with the Brewers.

But of course, MLB will never go back to a more balanced schedule because of teams like Red Sox-Yankees and Phillies-Mets. So we get stuck with 70+ divisional games as a result. Not to mention, divisional games no longer are as significant when it comes to postseason with the additional wild cards. And with Interleague play now being played throughout the entire season, why not simply go to a more balanced schedule?

Regardless of how good/bad the Twins/Brewers are, those tickets were usually some of my highest demanded tickets when I was a season ticket holder. Everyone wanted Twins-Brewers tickets.

And while I continue my rant against MLB, enough of this camo stuff on Memorial Day. Do they not know the true meaning of Memorial Day?? Memorial Day is not about the military but rather honoring those that lost their lives while serving. That's why we have Armed Services Day and Veteran's Day. An American Flag on the jersey and/or cap would be much more simpler and appreciated than this camo stuff we see now. And you know its bad when the Toronto Blue Jays, a Canadian team, are wearing Camo on Memorial Day. Do the US teams wear red for Canada Day?? Of course not.

Unfortunately, its all about money and merchandising and its sad. And I can imagine we will see the same thing on July 4...a date we should be honoring our great country and our independence.

Posted on May 28, 2013 at 09:43 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 506

Thanks BR - that sounds about right. So the last row is 40' higher and also farther back than the dome. Should have been expected I guess. Zygi talked about seats being close to the field but it's just another generic seating bowl. Too bad they couldn't get the seats closer like they did in Chicago with the massive cantilevers on the sidelines... I guess three levels of suites made that impossible due to the height. Upper deck will be about all I can afford but I wouldn't want to be so far away.

Posted on May 28, 2013 at 10:38 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 507

No doubt this years schedule is the worst in Twins history. Man I heard they were replacing a lot of turf at TF no thanks to the failed Big 10 tourney! Poor Larry just can't get a break. Goat roping concert just around the corner! Be nice to see the sun one of these days. Severe storms forecast for the next 2 days!

Posted on May 28, 2013 at 4:15 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 508

Well said Mike ... I agree 100%. And we need to go back to a 154 regular game season too, but that won't happen either.

It's pretty much all about TV and merchandising revenue now. Fans in seats enjoying the game is fast becoming a "necessary evil" afterthought ...

Posted on May 28, 2013 at 11:16 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 509

Three levels of suites...

I haven't been to many games in suites. A Gopher football game. A T'Wolves games. A Twins game at the Dome. But honestly, I don't get it. Milling about inside the suite is a crappy way/place to watch the game. You have to pay extra for food, so all you're getting is private standing room, some flat screens, and the chance to pay someone else to bring overpriced food to you. You get seats, too, but that just creates a dichotomy in your group between the people talking the suite and the people sitting in the seats.

I understand it's an easy way for companies to schmooze customers, but otherwise, blech. Among "specialty" options, I much prefer club seating, which offers a degree of exclusivity, some additional seating areas, often better (or at least greater variety of) food, but keeps you connected to the other fans at the game and to the game itself.

I mean, really, if you just want to mingle, why not just go to a restaurant and get good food?

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 09:28 AM by BR Highlight this comment 510

And suites are a great source of revenue - when the stadium is new and/or the team is doing well. But they were constantly discounting unbooked suites at the Dome in the last few years there, even when the Twins HAD decent teams.

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 09:30 AM by BR Highlight this comment 511

Mike, i have posted it before, but i will post it again... this is the ideal schedule i have been preaching for the last 7 years... and now that it is 15 teams in each league it is closer.

13 games vs 4 divisional teams = 52 games
6 games vs 10 teams rest of your league = 60 games
6 games vs rival = 6 games
3 games vs 14 teams other league = 42 games

Total of 160 games, if you want to keep it at 162, i am sure they can figure out 2 games somewhere in there. How cool would it be to play every team at home at least every other year. Or have the chance to travel to see your team in a new ballpark you haven't seen before every other year.

Make it happen MLB!

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 11:31 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 512

Add two games against your interleague rival Thrillhouse and you've got 162. Not sure how I would feel seeing every NL team on the schedule but over all it's a cool plan.

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 11:51 AM by Jp Highlight this comment 513

Jp,

my thought was to steal an NFL scheduling idea and play an extra game against the team that finished the same spot you did in the other two divisions, so the 5th place team in the central gets an extra vs the 5th in the East and West.... regardless, i dont care, i just want to see less of the central teams every year!

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 12:14 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 514

Thrillhouse - I love that idea! So simple and balanced.

Let's be honest, with season-long Interleague and expanded postseason, there really are no differences anymore between the NL and AL except for the DH rule. And I think the NL will eventually adopt the DH rule in the future.

I would say add 2 games for the "rival" and have two, 4-game series' on a Thursday-Sunday...do something for the fans for once!!

Sure, the unbalanced schedule is nice for Boston-New York, but for a majority of other teams, it does nothing. And as long as money talks, MLB will do nothing to change the structure of the schedule.

Would I be excited to see the Marlins or Pirates at Target Field every other year? Probably not, but its better than seeing the Indians or Royals make three different trips each year. It would also be nice to guarantee a visit to places like Wrigley Field or Busch Stadium every couple of years.

A more balanced schedule would increase the value of season tickets, because its very difficult selling April and September games filled with teams like the Royals, Tigers, Indians and White Sox.

Again, that is almost the perfect schedule format, but its so simple and perfect that MLB would never do that unfortunately. As fans, we can only hope they take a better look at the schedule format in the near future.

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 1:37 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 515

Mike,

Of course it wouldnt be much fun to see the Marlins and Pirates every other year, but having the big name NL teams in every other year would make up for that. Example, i was able to sell a Mets game at face value this year in April, that wouldn't of happened if it was the Royals.

And planning a Road Trip to somewhere like St. Louis every couple years, sounds pretty nice to me.

Speaking of trying to sell divisional games, how they hell are the Tigers and White Sox Series on a summer weekend premium? I have to sell June 14th and i am just hoping the HOF ceremony will be enough to get me close to face value, since i am sure the Twins will lowball the tickets with their on demand pricing...

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 516

Anyone catch Colabello wearing the wrong jersey?

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 4:06 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 517

BR - I don't quite understand the allure of the suite life either. Sure I realize it's great revenue...but I believe most, if not everyone here, would agree that it is a very sterile game experience.

Sure, you don't have to stand up for the potbelly getting up every so often to go downstairs to get another beer and chili dog.
Sure, you get your own private entrance and stuff. That's all well and good, but like Will Smith once said on Fresh Prince "I want my legs to be cramped and my feet sticking to the floor".

I'm wondering if maybe that's why this Loge Box thing has become so popular?? Like TCFBS and I believe even the X has them now and the Wolves have makeshift ones on the floor, as well as many other arenas and stadiums...they're like suites and many have the same amenities - but they are cheaper (I think) and they are more open - not as claustrophobic, thus bringing a little bit more of a bona fide game experience with the bigger price tag.

Posted on May 29, 2013 at 9:00 PM by luke Highlight this comment 518

In a suite, you’re less likely to:

Have beer rain down on you from upper rows

Have drunks falling on top of you from the row behind

Have to call security or the police because of fights or other obnoxious behavior nearby

Granted, this is less likely to happen to someone at a Twins game than a Vikings game, but insulation from the idiots in this world is worth its weight in gold.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 03:36 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 519

Ben - I saw that online how he was wearing the navy "Twins" home jersey while the rest of the team was wearing the navy "Minnesota" road jerseys.

Why they even had the "Twins" home jerseys on the road trip is beyond me. Someone must not have been doing their job in the equipment area.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 07:28 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 520

I wonder what the 'kangaroo court' fine is for wearing the wrong jersey.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 08:09 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 521

The wrong jersey bit smells like a prank to me.

Back to suites: I guess being insulated from the wrong elements has its value, but you can get that in club seating (or the loge box options Luke refers to) as well. Frankly, the obnoxious drunk problem decreases in rough proportion to the increase in seat price. Not that wealthy STHs can't be obnoxious, too, but you tend to see that stuff more in the upper deck than lower (and more in the bleachers in baseball than in the home plate box areas).

And it'd funny, but I've never thought that dealing with drunks was particularly problematic here in the land of Minnesota Nice. It exists, but if you really want obnoxious fans, go to Philly.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 09:16 AM by BR Highlight this comment 522

I'm just realizing that I've seen games from every corner of TF with one exception: I've never seen a game from inside a suite.

I've been inside suites plenty of times, so I know what they look like and what the various amenities are, but that's it. Apparently, I don't have friends in high enough places...

When I think about what I know of the suites, the advantages appear to be easy access to everything you might want, including restrooms that are empty most of the time, food that's mere steps away (and probably free), a wide open concourse, free scorecards/programs/magazines/game notes, and some pretty kick-a$$ views of the playing field (I think second only to the Legends Club seating). In suites, there is no such thing as standing in line waiting for anything.

Privacy is also a pretty big advantage. You never have to climb over anyone or bump into anyone or sit knee-to-knee with a stranger. You don't have to pass money or food across your row, listen to loud conversations around you, or worry about someone blocking your view.

And if weather conditions aren't to your liking, you have climate control merely steps away -- an area which won't be overrun if everyone in the ballpark is seeking shelter -- with a private screen for keeping up with the game.

"Sterile" is probably a reasonable word to use for those who are used to a more traditional ballpark experience, but "controlled" and "convenient" would work just as well. It's really a matter of taste -- and budget.

On Winona Mike's point, in all my TF experiences, I've found the "drunk and disorderly" problem to be really quite rare, and not concentrated in any one seating area. It's there, to be sure, but minimal, and widely-distributed. (I'm excluding the Captain's Deck, or whatever it's called now, because that place is designed to create trouble, and it's easily avoided by those who aren't there for that specific reason.)

And I agree with those who think Colabello was set up. I read that the appropriate uniform is always hanging from the locker when players arrive. In other words, they don't choose the correct uniform from their luggage, it's provided for them. They likely don't give it a thought and just put on whatever is hanging there. Rookies, beware.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 10:38 AM by Rick 523

Well, suites certainly can have great views, but you can also be in the third row of suites in the end zone corner. Those views/seats stink, especially for the price. (It's a bit like the Cambria Club at Target Center - the club converted from suites that is relatively far from the court, along the base line. Food & drink is included, but your view of the action is exceedingly mediocre.)

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 10:52 AM by BR Highlight this comment 524

" --- food that's mere steps away (and probably free)--- "

Free food? Did you really write that?

As to the jersey issue - perhaps a prank. But, such a prank could easily have kept him out of the game had the umps been paying attention.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 11:07 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 525

When I was a Viking STH, my seats were in the 4th row of the upper deck. The people around me were fairly well behaved, with a lapse or two (to quote the preacher in "Norma Rae"). But up in the nosebleed seats 10 or 15 rows above us there was always a disturbance of some sort. Access was so limited at the dome that the cops would stand at the bottom of the deck, squinting up toward the top trying to identify the problem children. Never had a problem with drunk and disorderly fans at TF.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 11:08 AM by terry Highlight this comment 526

Funny thing is that not even the umpires noticed it....

According to rule 1.11.a3:

No player whose uniform does not conform to that of his teammates shall be permitted to participate in a game.

Just goes to show how meaningless those "alternate" jerseys are when you have to have both a "Twins" for home and "Minnesota" for the road. At least make the "Minnesota" script white with red outline, just like they had on the blue alternates from 1997-2008.

Or better yet, ditch the blue alternates all-together and stick with the traditional home white/road gray/throwbacks.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 527

Well, as we all know, what's "free" to one person still cost somebody somewhere...

My dad told a story about his workplace taking employees to a game in one of those mega-suites down the left field line. To them -- the employees attending the game -- all the food was free. In a happy turn, the game was rained out after they had eaten, so they get to do the whole thing again when the game is made up (can't remember which one it was).

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 11:23 AM by Rick 528

That's pretty sweet (pun intended)!

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 3:39 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 529

Question...speaking of "free" food: do the Twins do the "imbedded value" on the pricier tickets for food purchase? I know lots of pro and even some college teams are doing this. I wasn't sure if the Twins took advantage since moving to TF.

I am also curious whether the Vikings will implement the same kind of system at the new place.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 4:06 PM by luke Highlight this comment 530

At target center suites the food was not free as matter of fact if you wanted to eat food in the suite you had to buy it from the food stand in the suite area couldnt bring in food from anywhere else in the arena. Dont get that.

At the ex they have a better food stand in the suite area still not free and they didnt mind if we went outside the suite area got food and brought it in the suite.

The way I saw it the suites were mostly for business reasons and most people were not even interested in the event going on.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 6:18 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 531

At TF, there are no concession stands whatsoever on the suite level. They do have some dessert carts which come around after about the halfway point in the game, and those are not free.

But there are always lots of servers running around delivering various types of food and services to the suites. I suspect that how things get paid for is part of the suite contract that the organization signs with the Twins.

But I can say this: Beyond the dessert carts, nobody is visibly paying for anything on the suite level.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 6:26 PM by Rick 532

Isn't the food "free" in the Champion's Club?

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 7:31 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 533

Food, yes. Booze, no.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 8:07 PM by Rick 534

Back to the jersey mix-up, didn't the same thing that happened to Colabello happen to Brian Dozier a couple seasons ago? He wore the wrong jersey for half an inning, if I recall correctly before changing.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 9:37 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 535

"Isn't the food "free" in the Champion's Club?"

Yes, just like the tires are "free" on a 40K car.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 11:06 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 536

"Food, yes. Booze, no."

Non-premium beer (i.e. Nordeast on tap) is "free".

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 11:08 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 537

Winona Mike you remember correctly. I meant to bring up the same thing.

Posted on May 30, 2013 at 11:16 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 538

Have the Twins ever hit 4 HR in a game at TF before?

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 09:09 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 539

Champions Club has nonpremium beer and wine for "free." I haven't been to a suite at TF - do they have a complete TF menu available? Often times, suites have a somewhat more limited and even different menu from what you can get at the concessions stands. At Target Center, you pay for food separately, much like a restaurant tab. At the Dome, for Twins games, you'd preselect a level of food service - basic/deluxe/premium (something like that) - and pay based on the capacity of the suite.

Re: "loaded" tickets. The Great Clips section in RF comes with $10 loaded on each ticket. Group tickets have the option of loading concessions money onto the tickets. Legends Club seats do not - yet.

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 09:17 AM by BR Highlight this comment 540

Thanks BR...good to know. Was curious

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 1:04 PM by luke Highlight this comment 541

Personally, I can understand the allure of a suite for all the reasons Rick and others have mentioned, provided the suite commands an outstanding view of the game in question. I've never been in one, but TF's suites seem to qualify.

I do not understand the allure of a "field level" suite, of which there are several planned at the new Vikings stadium. Perhaps others can shed some light on this - but I just don't get it.

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 1:57 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 542

Twins have announced that:

"Between June 3 and June 6, 2013, all wood-backed seats in the Delta SKY360° Legends Club will be replaced with a recyclable, long-lasting, high-density polyethylene plastic of the same color and comfort as the wood-backed seats. This renovation will provide greater protection against wear and tear and keep the seats in the Delta SKY360° Legends Club looking beautiful for years to come. The wide green seat cushions in the Club will remain the same."

And:

"Select wood-backed seats will be preserved and offered to each Delta SKY360° Legends Club Season Ticket Holder as a complimentary keepsake to commemorate your unique status at Target Field. Each Delta SKY360° Legends Club account will be awarded one wood-backed seat which will also be autographed by a select Twins alumni player and be available for pick up beginning in July."

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 2:42 PM by LC Highlight this comment 543

Interesting that you mention that LC. I was at the Wednesday game and happened to notice many of the seat backs were very worn looking. It is understood after all that being exposed to the elements will do that.

What I found more interesting is how some appeared to be brand new (and very well could have been replaced recently) while right next to ones that were very worn looking with a very gray, ragged look. For some reason I feel like they deteriorated faster than I had expected they would and not as a group in a section but one here, three there a few rows over there.

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 3:01 PM by jared Highlight this comment 544

And they squeaked and creaked!

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 3:20 PM by Rick 545

I wonder what the warranty on those was. Pretty much everybody thought that was a cool idea but not very practical. Among other things, they had to put in so much more work to protect those seats during the winter. And it clearly didn't work.

Elsewhere, I think the wooden louvers seem to have held up nicely.

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 3:25 PM by Rick 546

I would assume the wood-backed seats in the Powerball Pavilion will stay?? As they are protected by the overhang from the grandstand. Or are the Twins replacing those too?

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 6:16 PM by luke Highlight this comment 547

In 2010 I got to attend a game in one of the event suites along the first base line. The price of the suite included your basic ballpark food items; like hot dogs, brats, popcorn, etc. Some deserts, and non alcoholic drinks. You could upgrade your menu items for a further cost and buy packs of beer.

Not sure, but I would guess if you wanted you could order in advance any of the catering items offered. Those are listed at: Catering

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 6:21 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 548

My wife says I can't have my LC seat :(

(Not that I would know what to do with it, but that's a whole different story ...)

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 7:45 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 549

Jfh...you paid for the tickets, she didnt. Ergo, you are entitled to make your own grown up decision on the matter of purchasing your seat as a keepsake. Mount it on a slab in the backyard or something...lol

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 8:19 PM by luke Highlight this comment 550

Luke is clearly not married.

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 9:37 PM by antifire Highlight this comment 551

True anti (working on it though), but I know a marriage concept or two...lol

Posted on May 31, 2013 at 9:49 PM by luke Highlight this comment 552

Luke - work harder. :).

Been happily married for 25 years, so I have a good idea of what she really disapproves of or will cause discont for her or misery for me.. I bought the LC seats and other season tickets when she didn't think it was a good idea.

If we got the entire seat, I might push harder, but I really don't have the room for it. My daughter already has a baseball themed den - with a fully restored working vintage Coke machine, the big TF litho, various That's My Ticket big tickets (2010 Opening Day at TF, the 2011 ASG (and a spot for 2014), the 2007 World Series and the 2013 Rockies 20th Anniversary Opening Day - all personalized with my seats), a Cuddy jersey from 2010 and a TF opening Season logoed ball that Todd Helton fouled off his foot, which Tulo tossed to me and later autographed. All of which my wife tolerates, but was against - so a battle over a seat back is not worth taking on.

And she hasn't raised a peep about my daughter and I going to the ASG next year. She is coming with us "as long as I don't have to go to any of the games". She does think that if she does have to see a ball game at the park, that Legends Club at TF is the way to go ... :)

Posted on June 1, 2013 at 12:08 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 553

Your daughter has a baseball themed den? Jfh...that right there is the awesomest thing I have ever heard in my life. Seriously.

Posted on June 1, 2013 at 06:05 AM by luke Highlight this comment 554

I caught a foul ball in my LC seat today. I will miss the creaky seats. I've been to around 100 games in those seats since 2010 and now have 2 foul balls to show for it.

Posted on June 1, 2013 at 11:43 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 555

Luke - yes. Technically, it's my house, so my den, but it's in her part of the house. The layout/design is hers, though the Ccke machine (from 1959) and original Coke crates are mine.. She even found a little round throw rug that looks like a baseball as a finishing touch. And I forgot to mention a Jason Giambi autographed Rockies Jersey, so I have a link to my childhood favorite team (Yankees) and my to favorite teams (Twins and Rockies - nice link with Cuddy).

We have been going to games together since she was 4, so baseball is our thing and still is wven though she is almost done with her Master's degree. (She used to bring her laptop to Target Field sitting up in the LC watching games while doing homework) We had a blast today at Coors Field, with the Rockies winning in extra innings after the Twins walk off win.

A bit bummed that the LC seat back just won't fit (not a large room), but we are saving space for 2014 All Star pictures, tickets and stuff and souvenirs fom the future Rockies-Twins World Series. (2009 may be the closest we'll ever get, but how cool would it be to have tickets to all WS games between your two favorite teams?)

Posted on June 2, 2013 at 01:14 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 556

Anybody know how many games have been played at TF in the rain this year? I'm NOT trying to reignite the Great Roof Debate; just venting about the crappiest spring weather since Adam & Eve were running naked through the Garden of Eden.

Posted on June 2, 2013 at 07:34 AM by terry Highlight this comment 557

Sounds like a pretty nice Girl Cave she has set up. I forgot you had mentioned that it was just the wooden seat backs they were giving away...not the whole seat. I suppose it would take a lot to mount even a seat back.
I wonder how they are going to do it...because aren't there three wooden slats that make up the seat back? And if I remember right the seat numbers are on the seat bottoms.

Posted on June 2, 2013 at 09:01 AM by luke Highlight this comment 558

Twins win walk-off yesterday and ... Doumit gets doused with Gatorade like the Twins just won the World Series. It's crap like this that really bothers me. If the team is getting that excited over a relatively meaningless win over the sucky Mariners that tells you something right there. There is no motivation - from the front office to the players themselves - to attempt anything above mediocrity. I expect a parade through downtown if the Twins make it to .500.

Posted on June 2, 2013 at 12:36 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 559

Parade? They'll probably want their statues on the Plaza...

Posted on June 2, 2013 at 3:20 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 560

I’m afraid the Gatorade shower and shaving cream pie in the face after a walk-off hit (as tired, trite and unimaginative as they are) have become a recent baseball tradition. It’s not that the Twins are reacting to what they believe is the nee plus ultra of baseball achievement, but simply jocks with limited creative thinking doing what they believe should be done in that circumstance.

Had they retired to the clubhouse to douse themselves in champagne, then I’d have lost all hope for them making any headway this season.

Posted on June 2, 2013 at 9:22 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 561

Every once in a while I try to imagine what it's like to play 200-some baseball games in a seven-month period. Then I try to imagine the constant travel and relentless close quarters with the same group of people. Then I think about the pressures, intensity, expectations, and uncertainty that go with being a professional athlete.

Whenever I try to imagine all of that, I feel like I would perpetually need to look for pretty much anything to release the pressure and break up the tedium. (Cashing the checks would be nice, but I bet money isn't always a sufficient offset once you get used to it.)

So I'd bet that getting an opportunity to douse someone in Gatorade, even if it's in the context of an otherwise sucky season, would be pretty irresistible. In fact, I gotta believe these guys are looking for something -- anything -- to celebrate pretty much all the time, especially when times are bad.

But that leads me to wonder if, at four games under .500, things are really all that bad for the Twins right now. Heck, they aren't even in last place in the division anymore. (Just how did THAT happen??) I think we all were led to expect something more like the Marlins or Astros...

Posted on June 2, 2013 at 9:38 PM by Rick 562

Can you imagine if the Marlins played 200 games? Don't they get embarrassed enough playing 162?

Posted on June 3, 2013 at 06:45 AM by luke Highlight this comment 563

Pretty sure Rick is counting Spring Training games.

Posted on June 3, 2013 at 08:31 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 564

I don't mind the celebrating after a game like Saturday's. That was an exciting come-from-behind win. Wins like those should get you pumped even if the team isn't a contender. It's not like the football player who does a sack dance when his team is trailing 40-0 in the 4th quarter. Or a batter who flips his bat after hitting a homer in the 9th to make the final 10-1 instead of 10-0.

Posted on June 3, 2013 at 10:52 AM by terry Highlight this comment 565

I don't mind the celebrating after a game like Saturday's. That was an exciting come-from-behind win. Wins like those should get you pumped even if the team isn't a contender. It's not like the football player who does a sack dance when his team is trailing 40-0 in the 4th quarter. Or a batter who flips his bat after hitting a homer in the 9th to make the final 10-1 instead of 10-0.

Posted on June 3, 2013 at 10:52 AM by terry Highlight this comment 566

I've always been in the "act like you've been there" camp. I can think of 100 other more modest ways to celebrate a win over the Mariners that make you look like a serious pro team. Now winning a playoff game against the Yankees? Douse the Gatorade if you want. Just my take.

Posted on June 3, 2013 at 8:23 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 567

I see both Terry's and TTH's points. I lean more toward Terry's, though. I think it serves as a good pressure-relief valve AND I realize that many of these players are KIDS. That said, the Gatorade shower was one thing. Following up with the shaving cream pie, that was just over the top.

Posted on June 3, 2013 at 10:13 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 568

A query: is the Gatorade shower after winning the Super Bowl akin to the same Gatorade shower in baseball? Certainly, NFL coaches (the recipients of the Gatorade shower) are NOT kids and in many cases, neither are the players that Gatorade them.

Do you feel both instances are the same...or do they have a slightly different intellectual meaning? What say you?

Posted on June 4, 2013 at 06:42 AM by luke Highlight this comment 569

Annnnnd then there is Alex Buccilli's batting stance.

Posted on June 4, 2013 at 09:38 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 570

Luke, they're both the same in so far as I find both of them annoying and completely played out. Can't these guys think up something new and do their own thing instead of merely copying what others have previously done? In football, I'd expect nothing original, but baseball players have always seemed a little smarter, and by extension, more capable of original thinking.

And It looks like Alex Buccilli has figured out a peculiar way to really shrink his strike zone. It doesn't look like he'd get a whole lot of leverage on his swing with that stance. What's his average?

Posted on June 4, 2013 at 5:55 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 571

Winona...true. i see your point.
Maybe its a brand placement thing...lol. Gatorade as far as i know is a corporate sponsor of NFL and MLB. A major corporate sponsor.

Posted on June 4, 2013 at 8:46 PM by luke Highlight this comment 572

If you actually watch an entire Buccilli at bat, he straightens out his back and is not still in that weird crouch once the ball is pitched. Some of Hrbeks stances were almost just as strange, but like every good hitter, once they get their load going, they have the bat in a good spot to hit the ball.

Twins are playing decent ball after almost being unwatchable during that losing streak, much like last year. Their lineup is starting to come around.

Posted on June 4, 2013 at 9:22 PM by ole Highlight this comment 573

It just goes to show the potential this team would have if they had at least 3 competent starters. Their offense is adequate enough to compete. Their bullpen can be lights out.

But their starters....

Posted on June 5, 2013 at 11:06 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 574

The proposed new park hit a snag today when Hennepin County stated its opposition to closing Park and Portland to accomodate the development. That's hardly the end of the story, however.

Posted on June 5, 2013 at 4:45 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 575

The "park as proposed" hit a snag. I agree with the county about park and Portland. It's still possible to do the parkland with the two streets still open.

Posted on June 5, 2013 at 9:34 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 576

It's hard to know just what to make of that announcement today. Some of the language was pretty weird, with Opat noting pointedly (for unclear reasons) that Hennepin is not paying for the stadium.

I've tried to follow what happened with the funding at the Legislature, but precious little was revealed from the deal that ended the session. The Strib is supposedly following the whole thing closely, but they aren't doing a very good job of it. Of course, they stand to gain mightily from having the whole thing happen with or without financing in place.

Once those design drawings were released, the world's eyes glazed over when it came to financing (almost as if by design). Basically, we're all going to be paying for that thing whether gamblers or not (Opat included).

As for the park, it's certainly not as attractive when interrupted by very wide mini-freeways, but closing those roadways was never going to happen, and everyone involved knew it. They're going to be making lemonade all the way on that project, but it's still worlds better than what's there now.

Posted on June 5, 2013 at 11:02 PM by Rick 577

I keep waiting for someone to notice that one of those blocks slated to become a park once housed the main headquarters for Art Instruction, Inc. -- which is notable only because it's where Charles Schulz was working when he met the real Charlie Brown, a man named Linus, and a whole bunch of other people who became models for later comic strip characters.

Posted on June 5, 2013 at 11:18 PM by Rick 578

Just build tunnels for those streets. Yes, it will cost more, but it is better than half-assing this whole thing.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 09:08 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 579

Posted a few new shots from TF. The first four. Clicky linky.

Flickr updated their site to have a new stream of photos and it's awesome. Plus if you click one of the images it take you to the image full screen on a black background. You miss out on the description or comments but everyone is usually there for the image anyway...although I do like to read the stories people write.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 10:17 AM by jared Highlight this comment 580

I wish we would disrupt Park and Portland for a large 3 block park. That would be amazing. I am still hoping it happens and they really anchor the new DTE on it. Redo the Armory into a year-round market, use the Yard as the tailgating space for Vikes games (ala the Grove at Ole Miss), have a pond for duck watching in the summer and ice skating rink in the winter, etc...

Jared, AMAZING photos as always. How do any of us get our hands on a copy? Not only would I love to update my computer background, I am looking for prints for my man cave.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 10:56 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 581

I've always been interested to see how they'd plan on pulling off tailgating in a park setting for a Vikings game. The Grove actually has a lot of rules in place in terms of drop off of materials, etc and I'd be interested to see how they'd work all that out with the various parties given the impact on traffic, damage to the grass, etc.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 11:34 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 582

Wait, do people still think they're going to be tailgating near to the new Vikings stadium?

Unless somebody builds something on top of a parking ramp, and gets Minneapolis to change city ordinances, it's just not going to happen. Not a single document that I've seen so far (actual, not concept) has shown even a single space anywhere near the stadium set aside for that purpose.

Maybe railgating at some remote lot then riding the train to the stadium...

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM by Rick 583

I DO think there will be some space, some where for tailgating. Not sure how right now... there are still too many unknown pieces of the puzzle.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 2:05 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 584

I guess it can't be ruled out yet, and if the big development/park doesn't get built there may still be room around there.

But I think my point is that this isn't on anyone's agenda -- not the team, not the Authority, not the city, not the architects, not the landscape people... Really. Nobody.

As such, right now it's hard to see it happening.

I've harped on the location for a long time, but this issue is a major downside for the Metrodome site.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 2:13 PM by Rick 585

I don't think anyone who really thinks through the barriers thinks tailgating is going to happen. But people are trying to be creative with the limited options that will exist and one vein of that creative thinking is to envision non-car tailgating of some kind in the proposed park. It's just that the idea has it's own set of issues to contend with.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 2:39 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 586

Something that wouldn't surprise me (if tailgate demand is there) would be the U offering tailgating space in it's West Bank lots. Unless Vikings fans cause a lot of trouble in the 2 years they are on campus for tailgating. Then maybe not. But otherwise it's a manageable walk (approx .75 miles) from the WB lots to the Dome site.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 2:44 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 587

How do people feel about the tailgating opportunities over at TCFBS?

I've only been there a couple of times, and I know at least one of the original tailgating lots has been replaced by a new building, but my impression was that it was a pretty nice setup.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 2:46 PM by Rick 588

I've tailgated at TCFBS a few times. LOVE IT!

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 3:07 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 589

I wonder if the parking lots at the State Fairgrounds will be open for Vikings tailgaters while they play at TCF Bank Stadium in 2014/2015?

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 3:53 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 590

Rick-
I don't know anyone who doesn't enjoy it, though you can talk to most folks and get plenty of suggestions for improvements.

They did make one change this year that has PO'd folks (including me). Parking and Transportation Services (PTS) runs the lots and they apparently have the ability to make unilateral decisions outside of the AD's purview. This season they closed 2 of the WB lots (C89 and C88) because "underused and too much effort to staff." While I agree (as a person in C89) that it was not a hotbed, it was sold out every season (i.e. PTS had the revenue in hand already) and staffing it required:
- 1 student for about 10 hours or so
- Cleaning of 1 Port-a-Pottie
- Garbage pickup for (if filled) 130 tailgate spots (and it was never that full of tailgaters)

For C88 you're talking about an even smaller lot requiring 1 more student for 10 hours. But given that it is literally right next to C86 (which they kept open) and shares port-a-potties with it all you've done is maybe cut down on a few P-a-P rentals.

The best part is that the West Bank option they gave instead was to push everyone farther away from the stadium into a open and soulless lot off Riverside. C88 and C89 were shaded and had character.

It's also shortsighted, as the LRT station on the WB is right next to those lots and the U should be encouraging people to take advantage of that.

If you can't tell, I am annoyed with PTS.

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 4:46 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 591

1 for 19 the last two nights with RISP and over 20 runners left on base. OUCH!

Posted on June 6, 2013 at 10:02 PM by terry Highlight this comment 592

Well I must say the KC field looked pretty sharp compared to Larry's disaster here. Maybe the Twins should give him a call. Excellent cut and pattern to boot. Ohh and are we really only 1-5 vs the Royal this year so far? Bring Buxton and Gibson and feed em to the wolves! Made it to my first game a week ago. A 3-0 loss of course vs Seattle. Nice scenery at Cowboy Jacks so made a late 3rd inning arrival. Great happy hour there. They need to put a huge screen on the wall on the outside bar area there. Might be better than going to the game! Great deal on 2 lb bucket of wings for $5.00 also. That's all folks!

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 09:15 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 593

YAY! A discussion about field patterns. This is something I've never seen before.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 09:44 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 594

Cowboy Jack's wings are the new Holiday dogs.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM by Chad Highlight this comment 595

Discussions usually have some form of insight and relevance. This seems more like the ramblings of a lunatic.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 10:10 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 596

Cut pattern and holiday dog discussions make me want to avoid this site. Seriously it's getting old.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 10:25 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 597

Regarding tailgating at the State Fair grounds for Vikings games, I think you can count on it. The UofM's campus simply doesn't have the ability to absorb the number of cars necessary to carry 50,000 plus Vikings fans, be it on the roads or in lots and ramps. Some people are going to have to park elsewhere and then ride in on buses or light rail. Downtown and points to the south will absorb some of those fans, but others will end up at the State Fair grounds where no doubt tailgating will be encouraged as it is during Gopher games.

One thing the Vikings and the UofM absolutely have to do, and are likely to, is make sure that all on campus parking is by season subscription only. Especially now with the closure of Washington Avenue for light rail, you simply can't have 15,000 cars show up without exact parking destinations. Traffic will be challenging enough without people meandering in search of a parking spot, perhaps even passing up potential lots and ramps due to desires to find something closer or less expensive. If drivers have a set spot and plan accordingly, it'll make things at least a bit easier.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 10:26 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 598

Here's a picture of the new seat backs in LC from Dave St. Peter. Nice that they have the same look, just too bad they couldn't keep the real ones around.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 10:33 AM by grizzly adams Highlight this comment 599

Grizzly Adams,

Those look great! I have to say that at the games I've been to this year in the LC the seat backs looked like they were very rundown. I am glad to see that they took notice and improved this club area back up to standards of a premium area.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 10:47 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 600

Darn you, Andrea! No game tonight.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 11:42 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 601

Oh yea, thanks for the reminder Jorge on the Vikings tailgate question.

The Facilities use agreement actually spells out exactly how tailgating will look for games at TCF. Click the link for the full PDF, but here is the legal language (see page 11):

Tailgating will be allowed during Game Day Periods in lots designated by University under the same rules as are in effect for University football game days. A copy of the rules in effect as of the Effective Date has been provided to the Vikings. The number of lots available and the hours will be determined on a Game-by-Game basis based on other University-scheduled activities. The Vikings shall not conduct or permit marketing, soliciting, or promotional activities in tailgating areas or elsewhere on the University campus unless authorized in writing by University.

What are the key U rules about tailgating and how will they affect the Vikings?
- Lots open 6 hours before kickoff or at 7am for noon games.
- Lots close 2 hours after the game ends.
- No charcoal grills.
- Tailgating only allowed in designated surface lots, not in ramps or garages.
- No trucking in furniture.
Those are the biggies.

Here's the blurb on parking (also page 11):

Parking and Transit. Parking in University parking ramps and lots during Game Day Periods will be on an "as available" basis, but shall not be less than 2,500 spaces available for Games, subject to the limitation noted in Section 2.B. University shall operate its ramps and lots, establish the parking rates, and retain the revenue. The Vikings acknowledge that University is committed to providing approximately 3,900 parking spaces to the State Fair during the State Fair, which requires most surface parking near the TCF Bank
Stadium and a significant number of ramp spaces ("State Fair Commitment"). No arrangements are currently in place for parking at the State Fairgrounds during Games played at the TCF Bank Stadium; any
arrangements for such parking will be handled by University, and University shall establish the parking rates and retain the revenue. The Vikings acknowledge there is no possibility for parking at the State Fairgrounds during the State Fair. On or before April 1 of the applicable NFL Season, University and the Vikings shall jointly develop and coordinate a transportation and traffic plan for Games, including the transit and shuttle bus services to be provided by University and charter bus and taxi plan. No costs and expenses for parking and transit other than those noted on Exhibit D may be assessed to the Vikings, which costs and expenses are estimates; the actual costs may be higher or lower.

And here are the high points of the attached tailgating document maps (page 67):
- State Fair tailgating will be allowed in Lot S108 (though as noted above, not during the State Fair.
- Parking closest to the stadium will go for $40 per game per spot.
- The remaining East Bank spots (minus the garages right by Coffmann Union) that the U opens and all St. Paul campus parking will be $20 per spot per game with no difference in cost between tailgate lots and ramps/garages.
- All other parking (West Bank and Coffmann garages) will be $10 per spot per game.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 12:45 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 602

And of course after all that I didn't include the link to the PDF. You can find it on this post.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 12:46 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 603

Re this point made by Jorge:

One thing the Vikings and the UofM absolutely have to do, and are likely to, is make sure that all on campus parking is by season subscription only. Especially now with the closure of Washington Avenue for light rail, you simply can't have 15,000 cars show up without exact parking destinations. Traffic will be challenging enough without people meandering in search of a parking spot, perhaps even passing up potential lots and ramps due to desires to find something closer or less expensive. If drivers have a set spot and plan accordingly, it'll make things at least a bit easier.

If the details in the facility use agreement are what they go with in the end, then it doesn't look like they will do a "season subscription" for parking like they do for Gopher FB. My guess is that is because the U's PTS department doesn't want to have to maintain/implement such a system and isn't real concerned about Vikings fans making it to the game on time.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 12:48 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 604

They have taken out those trees, and now the wooden seatbacks. What's next for Target Field? Aluminum bats? What do these guys have against cellulose?

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 3:58 PM by ClarkAddison Highlight this comment 605

Thanks for the link GoAUpher. Holy cow will parking and traffic be a mess due to the “parking as available” system. For the first few games, I plan to ride my bike or just get there at an otherwise ridiculously early time. The UofM is actually going against its own initial philosophy with TCF Bank Stadium, which was to make all on campus parking subscription based. It wasn’t always smooth, but it worked pretty well at keeping traffic and parking under control. It’s been relaxed over the past season or two as Gopher season ticket and single game sales have plummeted.

A few things in the usage agreement stand out as interesting.

- The proposed temporary bleachers at the open end will hold no more than 2,134 fans. Total capacity will be 54,472. Capacity for Gophers football games is 50,805. That means there are 1,303 extra seats coming from somewhere that the agreement does not seem to take into account.

- Gophers box, loge, and premium seat holders will have right of first refusal for Vikings games which likely means fewer spots in those areas for the Vikings existing holders of such status.

- The Vikings will pay to get the underground heating system installed beneath the field. That will require the installation of a new artificial turf field afterwards. The Vikings have agreed that after they vacate TCF Bank Stadium, the team will pay for another new artificial turf field.

- When the Vikings play at TCF Bank Stadium, the endzone designs will be permanently inlayed. However, the Vikings will also have the opportunity to put a Vikings logo at midfield as well as marking the field with NFL logos, NFL regulation hash marks, and NFL regulation numbers (these must be in a specific location of the field, different from that used typically in college football, and of a particular font). The Vikings must make sure to remove the team and NFL markings from the field before subsequent Gophers games.

No matter how much scrubbing takes place, the evidence of the cleaned up markings will be visible, especially by season two. The hardcore Gopher Hole types will absolutely go ballistic over this, despite the fact the situation will last two seasons and then the stadium gets new turf after the Vikes depart.

- Coke products will remain on sale, but the Vikings can promote Pepsi, its partner, during games.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 5:01 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 606

Jorge-
Couple more thoughts off what you put.

The UofM is actually going against its own initial philosophy with TCF Bank Stadium, which was to make all on campus parking subscription based. It wasn’t always smooth, but it worked pretty well at keeping traffic and parking under control. It’s been relaxed over the past season or two as Gopher season ticket and single game sales have plummeted.

The thing to remember with this is that for the Gopher games the season parking passes are only sold with season tickets, which makes management of the passes easy and under the purview of the athletic department. There will be no such system in place for the Vikings and the season sales would likely have to come from the PTS department and not the Athletic Dept. I'm guessing that they just don't care enough to go through the effort or that it would cost them money they don't want to spend. If the Vikings want it to work more smoothly, then they'll have to put out the effort to properly explain the options to the fans.

The proposed temporary bleachers at the open end will hold no more than 2,134 fans. Total capacity will be 54,472. Capacity for Gophers football games is 50,805. That means there are 1,303 extra seats coming from somewhere that the agreement does not seem to take into account.

It sounds like they may be considering some standing room only, but lord knows where and I don't see how you get over 1K of SRO. I'm guessing this is an area where the final agreement may be different.

The Vikings will pay to get the underground heating system installed beneath the field. That will require the installation of a new artificial turf field afterwards. The Vikings have agreed that after they vacate TCF Bank Stadium, the team will pay for another new artificial turf field.

Bagley just did an interview with Pat Kessler (see link) where he says they haven't decided if they'll put in heating coils or not. Since some heating element will be required by the Players Union and league, that suggests the other option is a heating blanket. However, even if they go with the blanket the Vikings are still paying for new turf where the logos, endzone graphics, and hash marks will be painted on so that both the Vikings and Gophers get their branding.

When the Vikings play at TCF Bank Stadium, the endzone designs will be permanently inlayed. However, the Vikings will also have the opportunity to put a Vikings logo at midfield as well as marking the field with NFL logos, NFL regulation hash marks, and NFL regulation numbers (these must be in a specific location of the field, different from that used typically in college football, and of a particular font). The Vikings must make sure to remove the team and NFL markings from the field before subsequent Gophers games.

I found the language on the end zones confusing. When you read Bagley's comments, it seems like the end zones will be painted on too and that the permanent markings referred to in the document would be the field markings for OB. But I could be totally wrong there.

No matter how much scrubbing takes place, the evidence of the cleaned up markings will be visible, especially by season two. The hardcore Gopher Hole types will absolutely go ballistic over this, despite the fact the situation will last two seasons and then the stadium gets new turf after the Vikes depart.

They already are. Despite the U retaining massive ammounts of control and all the free (to the U) capital improvements this somehow amounts to the U being bullied by the Vikings and the worst travesty ever.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 10:58 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 607

One last note:

Coke products will remain on sale, but the Vikings can promote Pepsi, its partner, during games.

This isn't quite right. The Vikings are allowed to have Powerade containers and bottles on the sidelines (per the NFL's contracts) but no other advertising for Pepsi or Pepsi products will happen, Coke products will be the only ones served in the entire stadium (with the exception of a single suite that gets Pepsi), and the big Coke logo on the scoreboard stays and cannot be covered.

Posted on June 7, 2013 at 11:01 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 608

Thanks for the Pepsi correction. Unless, I'm confused about what endzone inlay means, it sounds as though Bagley contradicts the signed agreement. Perhaps the endzone designs are permanent, but can be switched out depending on which team is playing. The Vikes and Gophs did that for years at the Dome.

The Vikes and the UofM are begging for traffic and parking hell by making it pretty much every man for himself. All I can say is leave home early on game days.

Posted on June 8, 2013 at 12:41 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 609

Section 2 Paragraph A: sounds like the Vikings won't be allowed to play MNF the next two years?? Looks to me the provision is for Sunday games only. In that instance , seems to me the Bikes are getting bullied by the U on that one.
I just skimmed thru it, I will delve more into it later. Working in the title industry...I love reading property agreements...lol

Posted on June 8, 2013 at 08:12 AM by luke Highlight this comment 610

The Vikes can play a maximum of one weeknight home game per season. However that came can only take place when classes aren't in session, meaning whatever breaks coincide with NFL season.

Posted on June 8, 2013 at 08:37 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 611

Sounds like a bust to me. BTW we did NOT change our team name to the Bikes. VIKES was what I was shooting for...lol. stupid auto co-wreck.
I will be curious to get reading this agreement.
As for the parking, its good to know that the new LRT (Green Line) will be open by the time the Vikes play at TCFBS for the first game in 2014. I have a feeling ridership will be massive the two years at TCFBS.

Posted on June 8, 2013 at 09:01 AM by luke Highlight this comment 612

We're back! What the heck happened? I've been looking at a 404 screen for awhile, then a page with just the header for another two days.

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 03:32 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 613

The computer nerds would say "sometimes they just do that". It's a highly technical explanation.

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 06:58 AM by terry Highlight this comment 614

Order has been restored!

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 08:45 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 615

A couple quick follow up points on TCF sharing with the Vikings:

Re: Jorge
Unless, I'm confused about what endzone inlay means, it sounds as though Bagley contradicts the signed agreement. Perhaps the endzone designs are permanent, but can be switched out depending on which team is playing. The Vikes and Gophs did that for years at the Dome.

I could very well be wrong. As I said, the language confused me. And to be honest, Bagley's quote doesn't reference the end zones specifically so it's possible we're just talking about the 50 yard line. Though if they're going full green I don't see why they wouldn't paint the EZ's too. As for what they did previously, the end zones were changed when the Dome had astroturf, but once it went to Field Turf they painted the end zones. IIRC, field turf is not meant to be swapped out like old astroturf was.

The Vikes and the UofM are begging for traffic and parking hell by making it pretty much every man for himself. All I can say is leave home early on game days.

Understatement.

italic

italic

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 08:49 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 616

Re: MNF

Section 2 Paragraph A: sounds like the Vikings won't be allowed to play MNF the next two years?? Looks to me the provision is for Sunday games only. In that instance , seems to me the Vikes are getting bullied by the U on that one.

With the amount of bullying the Vikes do I can't say I'm saddened. It's not the U's job to change their mission or inconvenience students who have weeknight classes to make the Vikings happy. Plus, you can be sure that the neighborhood associations played a BIG part in saying no to MNF and TNF. NIMBY-ism is alive and well around the U.

The Vikes can play a maximum of one weeknight home game per season. However that came can only take place when classes aren't in session, meaning whatever breaks coincide with NFL season.

Depending on what in session means, this likely means only Week 16 would be available for a MNF game (there is no MNF on Week 17). If "in session" doesn't include holidays, then conceivably the Thursday night of Thanksgiving week would also be available then.

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 08:54 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 617

For any geeks out there: The outage was due to a "routine server migration" which was handled very sloppily -- enough for me to consider changing hosting companies even though I've used the same one for more than 10 years.

I'm still squashing errors because some essential modules simply didn't migrate... Oh, and it affected a bunch of my clients as well. How fun!

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 10:15 AM by Rick 618

I view the Vikings as driving hard to get the possible deal while occasionally stepping on some toes, but not as bullies. For that matter, I don’t consider the UofM as bullying the Vikes either.

After reading two threads devoted to the Vikings tenure at TCF Bank Stadium over at Gopherhole.com, my head aches. GoAUpher, you are a saint for showing such patience. Some people there are totally out of touch with reality on this and many matters. To read some of those posts, you’d think the Vikings planned to burn down the stadium after the 2015 season, back over Bruce Smith’s Heisman Trophy with the Wilf family limo, and not having the field painted up with Gopher logos left and right for Vikes games will somehow prevent the UofM from transforming into Alabama or Ohio State.

Field Turf fields can have changeable inlays. The linked video shows Met Life Field getting changed over from a Giants game on Sunday afternoon to a Jets game on Monday night. The Giants’ end zone designs are lifted out on what appear to pallets of sorts and replaced by the Jets’ designs.

Met Life Field Change Over

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 2:30 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 619

Fun little video about the Lowertown Ballpark. See link.

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 3:22 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 620

Good to be back!
Jorge...on the in-lay issue, doesn't Cowboys Stadium have interchangeable inlays for the Cowboys, Cotton Bowl and the HS games they have, or did they have three different turfs? I can't remember. I thought it was just the inlay.
I will have to check out the Gopherhole posts...see how bad they really are...lol.

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 4:03 PM by luke Highlight this comment 621

Through 5 innings they are 1 for 7 with RISP. And a 2 run "error" by the first base umpire didn't help any. Why do Twins opponents get 2 out duck f***ts, as Burt would say, to score runs and the Twins can't score a runner from 3d with nobody out?

Posted on June 12, 2013 at 9:01 PM by terry Highlight this comment 622

Jorge~
GREAT video. Thanks! I'm a little interested in why they wouldn't have the logos at the 50 be interchangeable as well (i.e. replace a square of turf with the logo inside of it) but maybe that was more complex for some reason.

In any case, the fact that it is doable with the right kind of turf set up adds to the options that are out there. Interested to see what the final decisions are.

As for GH...that's a combo of bad blood towards the Vikes for how the Gophers got screwed in the Dome and fear that the U will lay down. Crazy amount of worry over nothing.

Posted on June 13, 2013 at 2:06 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 623

I'm all for conspiracy theories. So here's mine. Seems odd that Mauer and Morneau would fall off power-wise as they have. Joe had that one-year anomaly and Justin has never been the same since his concussion. It seems the local media never questions this. Could they have been using some sort of PEDs? Perfectly logical. And as for Morneau, what better coverup than a concussion? It's not like a broken arm that can be X-rayed. Doctors can only go by how Justin is "feeling". Precautionary by nature, spending some extended time off is the norm with concussions and who is going to question it? Did Justin use the concussion to explain away his sudden lack of consistent power? Is Mauer not under scrutiny because he is Mauer? Do I have proof? No. Do I have questions? Yes.

Posted on June 14, 2013 at 10:19 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 624

TTH, I would add Morneau's "diet change" that caused all his weight loss before 2012. Is there any denying that he still looks like a scrawny version of his earlier self?

And will we ever forget the "bilateral leg weakness" that was so mysterious that Sid -- of all people -- actually went public with a crazy Lyme disease theory? (OK, Sid has been known for some wacky thinking, but he also has access that should have headed that off. The Twins were clearly stonewalling him the same as everybody else, which is most unusual.)

I'm actually sort of averse to conspiracy theories, but I might just wear this particular tinfoil TC hat...

Posted on June 14, 2013 at 11:14 PM by Rick 625

It just baffles me that it isn't brought up - it almost seems intentional, especially in light of all the Ryan Braun talk.

Posted on June 15, 2013 at 08:04 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 626

Makes you wonder if Mauer and Morneau were on the grassy knoll in Dallas. You say they weren't even born yet in 1963? Do you know that for sure? Why won't they release their long form birth certificates?

Posted on June 15, 2013 at 08:25 AM by terry Highlight this comment 627

How about Puckett? Does any really think he was squeaky clean?

Posted on June 15, 2013 at 12:05 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 628

How about Puckett? Does any really think he was squeaky clean?

Posted on June 15, 2013 at 12:05 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 629

Glad to see the site back Rick. I'm more a lurker these days, but wasn't ready for the shock of no Ballparkmagic!

As an I/T guy, I might understand what happened, but I'm not sure how much credit I would give to a 10 year association if the error was attributable to blatant incompetence.

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 01:39 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 630

Nasty! I suppose in theory this could happen anywhere but raw sewage coming out from the shower drains in Oakland at the "O.co" is just another reminder that it's time for some new digs. Pretty embarrassing.

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 09:01 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 631

Did the fan who caught Torii Hunter's 300th HR ball yesterday throw it back?? Or did he actually keep it and give it to Torii?

I must say Torii Hunter is the one Twin I miss most from the last 10 years or so.

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 09:43 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 632

I've linked the opening ten minutes or so of the Baltimore Colts at Minnesota Vikings broadcast of Monday Night Football from October 25, 1971. There's no game footage, but you get interviews with Johnny Unitas, Alan Page, and Bubba Smith, pregame info from Frank Gifford, Howard Cosell, and Don Meredith, the funky organ driven theme song, some vintage commercials, a technically sophisticated production for the era that seems charmingly quaint by today's standards, and most importantly some great shots of Metropolitan Stadium. It's worth the ten minutes or so to check it out.

Colts at Vikings, Pregame 10/25/1971

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 11:57 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 633

If I'm remembering the right game, Unitas threw a pass into the end zone late in the game that would have won it for Baltimore. The pass was incomplete, but should have been ruled a dead ball because it grazed the crossbar (then on the goal line). Afterward, Bud Grant said everyone missed that and then, with a mischievous twinkle in his eyes, added "even Howard Cosell".

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM by terry Highlight this comment 634

Just looked up that game. The late pass, intended for Eddie Hinton, would have tied it. Vikings won 10-3.

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 3:29 PM by terry Highlight this comment 635

In other words, the pass WOULD NOT have tied it.

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 5:02 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 636

OK, the PAT would have tied it. Everyone on board with this? Six points for a touchdown and one for the point after.

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 6:11 PM by terry Highlight this comment 637

Here's the intro to the Rams at the Vikings tied game in 1976. Love the disco intro music and the airing of the National anthem. Pat Summeral with Tom Brookshire, Madden would be coaching the Raiders who defeated us in Super Bowl XI that year

Posted on June 17, 2013 at 9:27 PM by NBG Highlight this comment 638

Concessions question - any place at TF where you can get a good Chicago style hot dog (with tomatoes, peppers, and other acid reflux-inducing ingredients)? There was a vendor that sold them near our section at the dome, and it's the only thing I miss about that place.

Posted on June 18, 2013 at 5:20 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 639

Expectorate...for a good Chicago dog, if not available at TF: stop by the Sandys food truck. They are the home of some great dogs, and they serve one hell of a Chicago dog. Today they were on 2nd Ave S. If you are downtown, scope them out. Its like a tripped out Head Start bus. You're looking at about $6 for it. And they have fantastic fresh cut seasoned fries to wash it down.

Posted on June 18, 2013 at 7:50 PM by luke Highlight this comment 640

Luke is kind of like this blog's own Cliff Clavin.

Posted on June 18, 2013 at 10:57 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 641

I work downtown TTH...therefore I know the "spots".
HTGDH did Cliff Calvin enter the picture? Lol.

Posted on June 19, 2013 at 05:38 AM by luke Highlight this comment 642

It's a little known fact ...

Posted on June 19, 2013 at 09:35 AM by terry Highlight this comment 643

Might I suggest Holiday dogs or Brats??? 2 fer $2.50. Lots of condiments there or grab em at the game! Enjoy!!!!

Posted on June 19, 2013 at 09:36 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 644

Holiday has hot dogs?

Posted on June 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 645

Who knew?

Posted on June 19, 2013 at 5:44 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 646

Twink...doesn't Holiday still run the two dogs and a 32oz soda for $2.22? You can get soda too. Doubt you can bring the soda into TF however.

Posted on June 19, 2013 at 7:48 PM by luke Highlight this comment 647

Aren't we finished beating the Holiday Dogs topic to death yet? Can we please move on?

Posted on June 19, 2013 at 9:21 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 648

Ok Winona. We will. How about moving to the topic of the bus crash involving the Twins' AA farm club?

Posted on June 19, 2013 at 9:28 PM by luke Highlight this comment 649

Driver of the car killed. Bert: "Luckily no one was hurt."

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 12:32 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 650

It was Elizabethton, not New Britain Luke.

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 01:03 AM by FD Highlight this comment 651

I noticed Bert's comment as well, Ben. It made me cringe.

Sounds like the bus driver did a pretty good job keeping the bus upright, or things could have been a lot worse.

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 08:25 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 652

The buns at Holiday are a little stale.

Just sayin'...

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 08:43 AM by BR Highlight this comment 653

Well it is now the dog days of summer. You need to put those buns in the microwave to soften them up say for 20 seconds. Luke you are correct no pop allowed. However you can put some clear rum in a water bottle and walk right in!

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 09:50 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 654

Lol twink. Or vodka...

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 4:10 PM by luke Highlight this comment 655

So much for a commercial-free site...

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 5:42 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 656

Rick, can you do a blog post comparing/contrasting hot dogs from Holiday, SuperAmerica and KwikTrip so that we can have an honest, unbiased opinion on convenience store frankfurters? I think we all really want to know.

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 6:38 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 657

I fear that only an extended rum vs. vodka comparison has any hope of alleviating the banality of that particular thread...

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 7:11 PM by Rick 658

Had a wonderful time at the ballyard today. Sunshine, warm weather and a win. That 32 degree loss on opening day seems a long time ago.

Posted on June 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM by terry Highlight this comment 659

Was at the game yesterday too, terry. 3-0 this year!

Prior to the start of the game we noticed someone in the Sox dugout was throwing pieces of wrapped gum over by 3rd base. Probably at least 10 pieces. When Plouffe came and took his position he noticed them and threw them back at the dugout. Anyone ever seen anything like that before? Maybe a friend of his on the Sox playing a joke or an "inside" joke?

Posted on June 21, 2013 at 09:12 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 660

It is ironic that in a game which featured so many fielding misadventures for both teams, the play of the day was a great catch by the ball boy.

Posted on June 21, 2013 at 10:35 AM by terry Highlight this comment 661

I was surprised to find out last night that the ball boy is the brother of Pat Neshek. When I saw the play happen I figured it had a good chance of making plays of the day. He probably saved at least one person from taking a direct hit, and probably left himself with a good bruise on the backside.

If you are going to sit in prime foul ball territory, pay attention people!

Posted on June 21, 2013 at 12:20 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 662

Indeed that was Pat Nesheks 30 year old brother Paul to boot! LOL!

Posted on June 21, 2013 at 12:20 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 663

FCOL!

Posted on June 22, 2013 at 12:36 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 664

A 30 year old ball boy?

Posted on June 22, 2013 at 10:20 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 665

Good gig if you can get it.

Posted on June 22, 2013 at 1:10 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 666

How much do suppose they pay a ball/batboy/girl?

Posted on June 22, 2013 at 2:55 PM by luke Highlight this comment 667

Next to nothing.

Posted on June 22, 2013 at 9:55 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 668

True, but most earn significant tips from the players, cash or signed stuff,.

Posted on June 22, 2013 at 11:25 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 669

I surmise with Dre's original comment, and it seems to me, that maybe except for the thrill of being on the field...30 seems a bit old for that position.

Posted on June 23, 2013 at 1:40 PM by luke Highlight this comment 670

Jeanne Peterson, the Twins' second ballpark organist, died this weekend. Her husband, Willie Peterson, was the first. He died of cancer in 1969. Jeanne then took his place and would be introduced by Bob Casey as "our organist MRS. Willie Peterson".

Posted on June 24, 2013 at 06:49 AM by terry Highlight this comment 671

While we're talking ball boys...did you know the visiting bat boy is a home team employee? (And probably around 25-30, too). It's the same guy that just puts on a uniform for the other team. If you go to enough games you recognize him.

Posted on June 24, 2013 at 12:41 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 672

In which case, of course, he is not a visiting bat boy but rather a bat boy assigned to the visiting team.

Posted on June 24, 2013 at 1:44 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 673

From what I have heard, it can be better paying to be the bat boy for the visiting team. The visiting players don't know the area as well so make more requests, leading to more tips, etc. The bat boy assigned to the Twins typically gets tipped at the end of the season.

Posted on June 24, 2013 at 2:44 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 674

Ben, you're such a dick

Posted on June 24, 2013 at 8:36 PM by Rube Highlight this comment 675

Got the letter regarding the Legends Club seat backs - they each will be signed by Hrbek and Oliva. One per LC account.

Posted on June 24, 2013 at 11:20 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 676

The whole back, or just one slat?

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 03:43 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 677

When is the Twinkies brass going to do the wooden seat replacement...will it be done in phases whilst the Twins are on the road...or will they wait til seasons end?

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 06:37 AM by luke Highlight this comment 678

Already done - they did it a few weeks ago while the team was out of town.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 09:39 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 679

JFH-Do they say what they are doing with the other seatback? That's between 1 and 3 extra per account. Seems strange not to offer one per seat.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 10:40 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 680

Thanks Expectorate. Does anyone have a pic of what the new seatbacks look like? I pass by TF sometimes after work headed back to Ramp C. they matched the color pretty well, couldn't even tell it had been done (hence the reason I asked).

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 1:07 PM by luke Highlight this comment 681

Going to be at Coors Field on Friday, anyone have any tips on parking, concessions, etc? Was there back in the 90's with my family but it's been a while so any suggestions would be great.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 1:46 PM by grizzly adams Highlight this comment 682

I sat in the new replaced Legends Club seats last week for the White Sox matinee. They're clearly plastic when viewed up close and have a mock grain on them to poorly emulate wood. That said, they're considerably more comfortable than their wooden predecessors.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 683

Luke -- go back to post 599; grizzly adams has a twitter pic of the new seats.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 5:05 PM by Raging Peasants Highlight this comment 684

Grizzly, I went to a game last summer. We stayed downtown, so no parking suggestions. Concessions were a disappointment. Asked an usher for "must haves," and all she could recommend was a "rockies dog." A long, flavorless hot dog in a mushy white bun. Getting it with the onions and peppers on top was the only saving grace. Was not going to try a "rocky mountain oyster" prepared by a ballpark concessionaire.

The view from the upper deck 1st base side are great. Still can't help but wonder how Cuddyer puts up with all those trees in center field.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 5:28 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 685

Thanks for the help fiesta, guess I'll get a bite before the game.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 8:12 PM by grizzly adams Highlight this comment 686

I've had this thought recently at games: That the ballpark experience -- especially at TF -- is almost more about food than baseball (or even drinking).

In some ways it feels like unless you get something to eat you haven't really been to a game.

So I wonder what percentage of the overall experience should be about food versus, say, stat-watching, score-keeping, talking baseball with strangers, heckling, etc.

Maybe the better question is: What part of the overall experience looms largest for you?

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 8:56 PM by Rick 687

Oh, I forgot to mention that I often think, in advance of going to a game, "What am I going to eat that I can't get anywhere else?" or even "What can I eat there that is better at the ballpark than anywhere else?"

(I've mostly concluded that it's a pretty short list, which may not even require a second hand for counting...)

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 8:59 PM by Rick 688

Personally, I think the food selections should have a 15% share of the "experience"...you can get hot dogs, tacos, walleye, et al anywhere. That's why we suggest getting hot dogs at Holiday...lol.

The experience is more about atmosphere...the "feel" of the ballpark, the "feel" of watching a game there. For the diehards, yes, things like score- and stat-keeping. Fan interaction...I mean, how many ballparks do a sing-along of "Don't Stop Believing"? That one thing alone provides a unique experience, unique to TF.

Food should have a minimal piece of the ballpark experience pie (no pun intended).

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 10:08 PM by luke Highlight this comment 689

I mean, how many ballparks do a sing-along of "Don't Stop Believing"?

Luke, you need to get out more. This has become standard in ballparks (major and minor league, though various songs get used), as has the Kiss Cam, Underwater Cam, mascot "races" and pretty much every other program element. (The Twins appear to have cornered the market for the "Walks Will Haunt" graphic.)

The experiences are customized somewhat, and a few parks are ahead of or behind the others, but the Major League Ballpark Experience is highly homogenized these days.

I still hope to finish my profile of Nationals Park, but my review is, in essence, "It's a whole lot like Target Field -- virtually identical in some places -- and the overall ballpark experience is distinguishable only by the colors and logos."

I had fun out there (and in Baltimore; this was last August), but came back sort of depressed about the state of modern ballpark design.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 10:34 PM by Rick 690

Make that, "modern ballpark design and experience."

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 10:47 PM by Rick 691

I think that TF has upped the food quotient in my baseball experience, in that I would like to have something unique as part of my ballpark experience. My Eephus League scorebook (see link) accompanies me to every game because that is the core of the experience: THE GAME.

However, unlike the dome--where peanuts I brought with me and maybe a dome dog were what I happened to eat--TF has introduced the "terroir" of food to the equation. The uber-local experience of the ballpark as an extension of the area it represents.

That said, it's not always good. The TF juicy lucy does not do the genre justice, nor should it, I guess. That's why we have Matt's Bar. A Kramarczuk's polish at the ballpark tastes much like it might on East Hennepin, but it's not served by someone with a Ukrainian accent.

Seeing a game at Coors Field was about seeing the Rockies there (team + mountains), but I've been spoiled in that the ballpark terroir (other than some nice microbrews) did not resonate.

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 11:00 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 692

Love the snowflake option under game weather!

Boy, I sometimes think I should switch to a cool scorebook like that, but I just can never quite pull the trigger on it. The Twins hand out this nifty 8 1/2 x 14 score sheet at each game that I love to use because it's got so much stat stuff condensed into a small space. And when I can't get that (available only in certain areas of the park), I go for the $1 scorecard because it also has some nice contextual info.

Truthfully, I don't always read this stuff before or during the game, but when I look back at the ones from previous years, that's when the info is really interesting -- even including the ads. My programs from the 60s and 70s are among my most prized possessions.

But that Eephus League book is certainly tempting...

Posted on June 25, 2013 at 11:26 PM by Rick 693

Grizzly - Coors Field is my primary ballpark.

You are going to be here for the Giants series. There will be lots of parking, but your best best (price and convenience) is the main Coors Field lots off Wazee / West Park Avenue.

As for ballpark food / concessions:

For burgers - the Helton Burger (center field concourse). Much better than the burgers everywhere else in the park.

For hot dogs - there are a number of hot-dog only stands (can't remember what they are called). They are all speciality dogs (e.g. Denver dog, Chicago dog), but you can get them plain. The dogs the vendors have in the stands are good too, but they only roam the infield box sections.

Fries - decent everywhere. Garlic fries from Wazee Market (near section 138) are really good. If you like sandwiches or Pizza, Wazee market is the place to go.

BBQ - left field concourse - Famous Dave's

Ice cream - Madeline's (near the Helton Burger shack).

Sandlot brewery food is a step above anything found at the concession stands.

Ballpark favorites - Berries Kabob - bananas and strawberries drizzled with chocolate on a stick. And Frozen cheesecake on a stick covered in chocolate. Both $6, both awesome. Only at one location, around section 132 if I remember correctly.

I still have a great pair of seats for Sunday (7 rows behind Giants dugout) if you aren't set lready. My daughter ailed on me, o I'm just going to use my single. Email me for more info or if you have other specific Coors Field questions.

Posted on June 26, 2013 at 03:44 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 694

As for overall experience food-wise TF beats CF hands down in terms of variety and general quality, but both parks are near the top of the list as far as game day experience and watching the game go. Two absolutely beautiful parks.

One thing Sue still doesn't get though is how to play an organ at the ballpark. She needs to take a trip to Coors Field. And our 7th inning stretch runs rings around anything I've ever heard in Minnesota.

Posted on June 26, 2013 at 03:52 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 695

One last comment - we didn't have a mascot race until last season. Now we have the worst one in the majors - the Comfort Dental tooth trot, where Toothy, Bristles and Fresh (a tube of toothpaste) race to the dental floss finish line.

Sigh.

Posted on June 26, 2013 at 03:56 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 696

As for the Twins LC seat backs - the letter has no other details on the disposition of the ones not held for account owners. They will be available to LC members during the Yankees series, so maybe we will know more by then.

(I've changed my mind. Despite what my wife says, I'm going to go ahead and get mine)

Posted on June 26, 2013 at 04:02 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 697

Is it just my imagination? It seems that whenever the Twins manage to put up a crooked number in the first inning, it is followed by a long row of 000000000's, as happened today.

Posted on June 26, 2013 at 2:57 PM by terry Highlight this comment 698

Thanks also JFH for the info, might also have to try out some of the suggestions. The hotel I'll be at is only 1.5 miles from the ballpark so might just walk there depending on if my friends want to. Just going to the Friday game, going to be in Estes Park the rest of the weekend. Thanks again though.

Posted on June 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM by grizzly adams Highlight this comment 699

When do we get around the horn #2?

Posted on June 28, 2013 at 2:40 PM by moda Highlight this comment 700

In case anyone is interested, Cuddy extended his Rockies record consecutive game hitting streak to 25 games with a HR tonight.

Posted on June 29, 2013 at 01:45 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 701

Cuddles!

Posted on June 29, 2013 at 10:55 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 702

They always become superstars AFTER they leave the Twinkies.

Posted on June 29, 2013 at 6:07 PM by luke Highlight this comment 703

I was watching the Brewers/Pirates game last night and the announcers were commenting how Gomez's approach changed after he left the Twins. They commented that while with the Twins the approach was to smash the ball on the ground and run fast. While the approach has now changed to go with the pitch and crush it if you can (in different wording of course).

However, Gomez still cannot lay off the low and away pitch in the dirt for strike 3.

Posted on June 30, 2013 at 10:23 AM by TK Highlight this comment 704

You would watch the Brewers now you stinky cheesehead traitor! LOL, jk. Had to get that dig in there since you now have gone to the dark sconnie side. Twins games are just not the same without you TK. Tear!

Posted on June 30, 2013 at 2:01 PM by jared Highlight this comment 705

Cuddy hit / on base streak now 27 / 46.

Posted on July 1, 2013 at 06:55 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 706

Twins Fest to be at Target Field next year. I guess their 3 years of hosting the big food/wine event make them feel a lot can be packed into the interior spaces.

Posted on July 1, 2013 at 11:57 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 707

Dave St. Peter said:. “Hosting this at our ballpark gives us a chance to reinvent this great event..."

Finally!!! This "great" event has been in desperate need of a reboot for about a decade...

Posted on July 1, 2013 at 12:21 PM by Rick 708

I wonder if they'll have some sort of "winter wonderland" theme. Something on the plaza? On the field??

It would be all kinds of awesome if they'd let people hit in the Twins' batting cages...

Posted on July 1, 2013 at 4:17 PM by BR Highlight this comment 709

Does anyone remember when the Cleveland Indians had a winter festival at their ballpark. I think it was called Winterfest and maybe only lasted a year or two. I found some of the activities they had planned. I would definitely bring my kids if the Twins tried something similar.

Batterhorn (Snow Tubing), presented by RTA- 10 lane snow tubing hill on top of Time Warner Cable Bleachers (eight adult lanes 60'6" high off the ground and two children's lanes starting at the top of the 19' outfield wall)

Frozen Mile (Ice Skating)- 1/4 mile ice skating track around the outfield and small kids ice skating rink in left field corner

Slider's Snow Mountain- Kids play area in short left field

Winter Haven- Walking trail through the outfield featuring winter lights

Home Run Porch- Area to congregate and watch the festivities, complete with fire pit and concessions

Posted on July 1, 2013 at 5:47 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 710

Jeff, indeed I do remember the Tribe advertising for that. Seemed like an odd idea to me. I haven't been to TWFS for a couple years, but if its at TF, I would definitely go.

Posted on July 1, 2013 at 6:18 PM by luke Highlight this comment 711

Phil Cuzzi? Is that you?

Posted on July 1, 2013 at 9:07 PM by N.D. (aka N.D. "Rube") Highlight this comment 712

What an embarrassment, only 29,600 (75% capacity) at last night's game...Perfect weather, NY Yankees in town...Actual attendance was probably more like 25,000. Either way, I wonder if the Twins would still consider that a "premium" game...It's nice to see that the fans may be starting to send a message and are not going to the games as much as they have in the past.

My wife and I probably would have walked up had the ticket prices been lower. We were not going to pay "premium" prices based on the Twins' performance this year (and the last two years) and the fact that half of the Yankees were on the DL. With 25% of the seats unsold, the Twins should have been lowering ticket prices over the last week or so. Wasn't that the point of demand-based pricing? To fill up the stadium as frequently as possible while maximizing revenues from the demand-based pricing system? Would you rather sell 4 tickets at $25 or 0 tickets at $45?? Apparently the Twins would rather sell 0 tickets at $45.

Any by the way, I got another call from the Twins last week telling me I could still get "All Star Game priority" if I signed up for a 2013 season ticket package by July 19...I can't say I regret cancelling my season tickets this year.

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 08:16 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 713

Kyle Gibson taking the field in his first start. Linky.

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 10:09 AM by jared Highlight this comment 714

Mike has a very good point, and I hope the media picks up on it. The question is: Just how much will the higher ticket prices suppress attendance for the series?

That's going to be tough to determine because of the holiday. But it's definitely worth trying to figure out.

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 10:22 AM by Rick 715

75% capacity puts a lot of money into Pohlad pockets --- and that is all that matters.

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 11:15 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 716

Now quite, Ben. A "ton" is not enough if "two tons" might have been possible... You can bet they will be looking at this very closely as well.

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 11:18 AM by Rick 717

I had family from out of town that wanted go to the game last minute, so my wife and a niece and nephew went to the game. I checked online and saw tons of $24 tickets available in upper left, so I thought I would try scalpers first. They were still trying to get premium prices at 6:45... idiots. One was willing to give me a good deal on Dugout boxes and it was about 40 off face value each, but they were like 3 sections apart, not too easy with kids. We paid our $24 for upper left center and wandered around so the out of town kids could check out the park.

as for why the Twins didn't bottom out their prices last night, I believe part of the demand based pricing is that they wont go lower than what Season ticket holders paid, which as a season ticket holder makes sense to me. If I want to try to resell my seats at $50 (face value for this series) and the Twins are selling them at $30, then I have no chance to break even for the game. My tickets last night were already being used by someone else in our group.

I am sure it helps the Twins overall, but I hate Demand Based pricing.

AS for the game last night, I was hoping all the young new players would help the Twins forget about their curse against the Yankees... nope, same old same old. And my 11 year old nephew would not leave early, so we had to sit through that awful 9th inning. We did go sit down closer to the field for the inning though as people started to clear out and nearly got him a foul ball... but we did not sneak down far enough.

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 11:44 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 718

29,000 and change isn't bad at a 39,398 seat ballpark.
29,000 at the Humpty would have been considered just another Wednesday.

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 12:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 719

Nice shot, Jared!

It was rough watching our bullpen literally throw that game away last night. This team has too many weaknesses. Makes me wonder who they will try to trade away before the trading deadline, and wonder if they have anyone with any value. Mauer has the huge contract (and the no-trade clause), Morneau isn't hitting for power, Willingham is hurt, most of the 'kids' are too inconsistent... /sigh/

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 1:21 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 720

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 3:29 PM by Rick 721

Dear Ballpark Magic Community,

Thank you for helping us identify the section and row Harmon Killebrew's gargantuan 520+ ft home run was hit to in Met Stadium, which was Section 34, Row 8. It is now an easter egg in our new Apple iOS app devoted to baseball and its fans—UBERFAN BASEBALL. From every seat and ballpark, UBERFAN is building the visual wiki of baseball—one play at a time. We hope you join us and enjoy what we're doing together.

Cheers!
UBERFAN

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 5:38 PM by UBERFAN Highlight this comment 722

The Twins are a business out to make a profit? Who'da thunk it?

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 8:55 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 723

So Homer Bailey (sounds like a character from The Natural) hurls a No Hitter today, the first of the 2013 season. Its almost the All Star break, is it kinda late in the season to have a first no-hitter o the season?

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 9:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 724

I also thought it is ironic that a pitcher named Homer has thrown the last two no-no's. Watched the last three innings on MLB Network (What did I do before MLB Network - can't get enough!) and got goose bumps.

Why do the Twins even bother playing the Yankees? It just seems like they have us totally psyched out and besides Cano, they don't have any star players; which begs the question - how do we let their one star pound our brains in??

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 9:59 PM by ole Highlight this comment 725

A gem by Kershaw at Coors Field. :(

Cuddy's hit streak ends at 27 games. On base streak of 46 ends too.

Posted on July 2, 2013 at 11:55 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 726

Demand based pricing for the Yankees series was a failure. Both teams doing poorly, yet priced as if they were leading the league. It is true that the floor is what the season ticket holders paid, but even that us suspect since they put phoney "demand based" prices on season tickets (even though we still have to buy the entire season).

This just shows (a) season ticket prices are too high. And (b) demand based pricing doesn't work if there is an artificial floor or (c) if the product on the field isn't major league caliber.

And I wouldn't fall for buy season tickets now to get ASG priority. The Mets are still trying to sell ticket strips for this year and it seems as if anyone who ever called asking about tickets is now getting a shot at buying overpriced tickets.

I'll almost guarantee that the Twins will be offering strips to anyone who buys a package as late as Jne next year.

The primary advantage of the ASG to the host team is to have a chance to expand the STH base. All it's going to do for the Twins is postpone the really ugly numbers until 2015/16. Any ASG bump for the Twins won't last past July of next year.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 12:14 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 727

I must ask why Willingham wasn't placed on the DL two or three weeks ago? He obviously has not been right for the last few weeks and was not contributing much. And if the Twins were smart, they would have placed him on the DL to protect him and prevent his trade value from falling.

Now we find out Willingham is out a good 4-6 weeks and he will no longer be a trade target across the league.

It just never ends with the Twins when it comes to dealing with injuries.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 09:29 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 728

Rest and rehab. Rest and rehab.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 09:45 AM by FD Highlight this comment 729

Luke - a no hitters is a rare event. There is no pattern to them or regular occurrence. Plenty of seasons have been played with none thrown. So, no, it is not late in the season for the first one.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 10:19 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 730

Well said JFH. as stated above, i went to the game on Monday and bought tickets at the window... since my season ticket group was founded on an 8 share group, 10 games each, i question why i even bother for 10 games any more, i can just as easily buy good tickets now. Sure i might pay $5 more per ticket day of rather than season ticket discount, but i also probably will go to less games and games that i work out rather than 10 pre set games we draft in March.

To renew for ASG rights, or not, that is the question.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 731

Twins should be sellers at this point. This team can't put a winning streak together. And if you can't put a winning streak together, you can't win the division. Get Willingham healthy and trade him. Trade Morneau. Trade Doumit. Let the kids play, a la the early 2000s and build it back up.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 11:47 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 732

I got an STH survey this morning. The one ASG question I saw I'm pretty sure was the same as last year's survey:

"Assuming that the All-Star Game tickets are offered as a four-event package (Fanfest, Futures/Legends Games, Home Run Derby and All-Star Game) and those 4-event packaged were priced similarly to those offered at the 2012 All-Star Game in Kansas City, ranging from $340 to $750 per package, how likely would you be to purchase tickets for the 2014 All-Star Game at Target Field?"

(Note that package = strip = 1 seat)

There were also questions regarding likelihood of renewing Home Plate Box tickets if they went up $6, $4, or $2 per ticket - I said probably not for all the values. There were no questions like "would a price reduction increase the likelihood of you renewing?"

If the prices are increased, I'm going to drop one of my pairs, ASG or not. They really need to reset to at least 2010 pricing, not increase them, at least until the org shows they can field a team that has a reasonable shot of winning the division.

Not much else of interest in the survey.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 12:56 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 733

JFH,

Agreed. I filled out the same thing. I told them their riered pricing was way off base and too much of a range. for me it was an increase of $3,$2, or $1. I said if they want to surprise us and keep even more season ticket holders, lower prices... that wont happen, but it would surprise me.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 1:29 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 734

As always, to view large: Click Linky.


Posted on July 3, 2013 at 1:31 PM by jared Highlight this comment 735

Well, I just filled out the STH survey. Overall, I think we get good value in our STH package, but then we own just a 20 game package in the cheap seats. I'd feel differently (and expect more) if I had full STs in the box seats.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 2:26 PM by BR Highlight this comment 736

I had a tough time with the price increase questions that re linked to next season. Truth is, we're likely to renew specifically to get ASG tickets, which I mentioned in the last comment box. But I also commented that any plan to increase ticket costs before the team gets better and/or payroll is raised would be a REALLY bad idea.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 2:29 PM by BR Highlight this comment 737

It's interesting to hear about these surveys, but I wonder about the actual decision-making process and how/whether the results will be used.

The questions about ASG strips are especially puzzling because, in the past, MLB -- not the hosting team -- decides how those tickets will be packaged, priced and sold.

Pricing is really part science and part art, and what the customer says he wants doesn't usually play much of a role in the process. The general strategy recommended by experts is that raising prices is always a good idea, but there are right-size increases and wrong-size increases. (In my personal experience, every time I raise my prices, my sales go up -- and not by a small amount.)

This makes me think that they're really looking to find out something about the mood of the fan base, perhaps just how sensitive the population is to the team's on-field woes. One could imagine them using this info to back into the price increase necessary to offset anticipated losses for non-renewals.

But it's still very puzzling.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 2:43 PM by Rick 738

We are definitely still hanging on for the ASG. At a couple different points the past few years we were going to expand our ST demand but opted out. We will probably maintain 20 games until the other guy (the account holder) finally gives up.

He has become a diehard ballhawk that donates to NAMI (a mental health charity, which we both suffer from) for every ball snagged. As a result of his desire to ballhawk, he has cut back on ST games and pretty much either buys a ton of cheap seats games on the secondary market for a few bucks and meanders the seats or buys heavily discounted expensive seats last minute.

We only split 20 games (15/5 split right now) in 229 right now so its not that much skin off our backs and even if he dropped, even if the Twins stink I probably would just pick up the rest and keep on with ST for a while. I like watching baseball enough to keep it going for a while.

Posted on July 3, 2013 at 3:53 PM by jared Highlight this comment 739

Happy 4th everyone!


Posted on July 4, 2013 at 03:03 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 740

Nice shot expectorate! We went to the game last night but I wanted to try some shots from the plaza, so we went out there and got this:


(View bigger in the link)

Posted on July 4, 2013 at 1:52 PM by jared Highlight this comment 741

No "fireworks" at the yard this week. A FOUR GAME sweep by the Yanks. Seriously, they really have our number.

Posted on July 4, 2013 at 5:15 PM by luke Highlight this comment 742

Wow, Jared - that looks like it should be in next year's Twins calendar. Another great shot!

Posted on July 4, 2013 at 7:58 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 743

Rick, I heard this piece on NPR this morning and thought of the musician you. NYT also had a piece on the SSB, too. Will try to link that next.

Posted on July 4, 2013 at 9:46 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 744

SSB at the ballpark. Singing to the choir, so to speak. Happy fourth!

Posted on July 4, 2013 at 9:48 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 745

I always thought God Bless America or My Country This of There sounded more national-anthem-like than SSB. SSB IMHO is too long. Of course, if we DID use My Country...we would have to change the tune, because the tune belongs to God Save the Queen, the national anthem of the Mother Land :).
Then of course, there's also The Ballad of Davy Crockett...

Posted on July 4, 2013 at 10:15 PM by luke Highlight this comment 746

*My Country This of THEE. God, typing is taking a real beating tonight.

Posted on July 4, 2013 at 10:16 PM by luke Highlight this comment 747

The Twins are currently 36-46 heading into a 10-game AL East road trip before the All-Star Break

Best case scenario I see will be the Twins going 5-5 and heading into the break 41-51. Most-likely scenario is 3-7 and 39-53...What do others think?? I will say 3-7 may be generous at this point considering their historical performances on the road against the AL East.

It won't be any easier coming out of the break with 3 home games against Cleveland and than a 7 game west-coast road trip to Anaheim and Seattle.

They better not complain about the schedule either and the need for an off-day because they just had every Monday off in June and will have 4-days off in two weeks for the All-Star break.

Posted on July 5, 2013 at 08:15 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 748

3-7 road trip? The way this team is playing right now I'll be happy if they can find their way to the bus that takes them to the ballpark.

Posted on July 5, 2013 at 09:01 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 749

That is a beautiful shot, jared - wow. Looks like you and I took pictures of the same...uh...'explosion!'

Posted on July 5, 2013 at 09:02 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 750

Great photos! And thanks for the links, fiesta.

I've had the SSB honor at several Twins games, the Saints and the Timberwolves, though always as a part of a group. And I've tried out solo at TwinsFest a couple of times, but have never gotten the call. Maybe someday. I'm ready on a moment's notice! (Signing in D-flat, by the way.)

As for the on-field performance, I seriously felt the need to avert my eyes from the Yankees series. That's a terrible feeling when it comes before the All-Star break. Here's hoping there is at least some spark on the road trip or the rest of the summer could get pretty long.

Posted on July 5, 2013 at 10:16 AM by Rick 751

Rick - you aren't exactly correct about ASG pricing. MLB determines the events, the ticket formats (e.g. strips vs. single event entry) , which seats in the park belong to what pricing level and they provide the host club with minimum prices per level. (I presume the still provide multiple prices per seating group - low, medium, high). It is the club that selects the actual prices, subject to the minimums. MLB retains the net receipts (the club is reimbursed for the addional expenses incurred in hosting!

The process is very similar to the post-season, where te clubs get a "handbook" (two VERY large three ring binders) of instructions/requirements on how the entire process works.

The club selects the pricing because the ASG is a tool to retain/sell new FSEs for the host club. If not priced properly for the particular market, the host team loses. Ticket prices will absolutely be lower (for the ASG) next year compared to Citi Field, just as 2011 (Arizona) was less expensive than 2010 (Anaheim),

As for raising prices on the regular season packages, if the Twins raise prices they may see a one time revenue gain, but they will blow whatever is left of the new ballpark effect and fan goodwill (since most will say they don't see the additional revenue going to mprove the on-field product).

If rhey raise ticket prices next year, they will all but guarantee a larger exodus before the 2015 season. I continue to believe tat the ASG is propping up their FSE base more than most and that they already raised prices since 2010 (which were SUBSTANTIAL raises over the Dome) was a big mistake.

Posted on July 5, 2013 at 5:59 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 752

You SHOULD make the cut for the anthem singing Rick! Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you mentioned here before you sing for choir at church??

Posted on July 5, 2013 at 6:50 PM by luke Highlight this comment 753

I'm finding the Northwoods League more enjoyable this year than going to Twins games. Tickets are only $6 at my local park, the caliber of play is almost as good, concessions are way cheaper and parking is free. Not to mention seat locations are way better than Twins games.

When you include all the costs involved with going to a Twins game, the value just isn't there. Maybe if they had a high value entertaining player to watch, like a Santana or Hunter, it be worth while. But Joe, although a great player, doesn't pack much entertainment in my opinion.

Posted on July 6, 2013 at 01:59 AM by Dave Highlight this comment 754

Spent last weekend in Cedar Rapids watching the Kernels. My $11 seat was very comfortable and wide with lots of legroom. The next seat over was in the dugout. A thirty two once cup of excellent local craft beer (Millstream Brewing) cost less than a bottle of "Light" piss-water at TF. A great pork tenderloin sandwich. Good baseball played by guys who seemed to care about the game. Really good time. My point is that baseball options exist - you don't have to go downtown. No ASG priority however.

Posted on July 6, 2013 at 11:34 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 755

Luke, close but... Not. Quite. And I do Other. Musical. Things. Too.

Posted on July 6, 2013 at 12:47 PM by Rick 756

Pretty extensive resume you have there Rick :).

Posted on July 6, 2013 at 3:36 PM by luke Highlight this comment 757

Joe Nathan, Jesse Crain, Carlos Gomez and Torii Hunter - 2013 All Stars. And what did the Twins get in return? Nothing for Nathan. Nothing for Crain. Nothing for Hunter, and J.J. Hardy (who improved after leaving for Baltimore) for Gomez.

Posted on July 6, 2013 at 11:12 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 758

TTH - don't forget Cuddy. He is an All Star this year too. The Twins wanted Willingham instead.

Posted on July 6, 2013 at 11:29 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 759

But I guess the good news is tat the Twins will have a bunch of All Stars playing at Target Field next year - at least for a day ...

Posted on July 6, 2013 at 11:32 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 760

And David Ortiz... gosh, this just gets more depressing.

Posted on July 6, 2013 at 11:50 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 761

I get -- and agree with -- your point, TTH. But the ASG doesn't have much credibility anymore in terms of indicating who is or is not among the current greats. It's just barely even a popularity contest anymore, and much more a matter of who can't get out of it (so they can get a few off days). All the "it's an honor" language aside, don't you think Joe Mauer would much rather spend a few days up at the cabin right about now?

By that I mean to say that what's really depressing is that, ASG nod or not, these guys all blossomed after leaving the Twins.

It's been suggested before in many other places, but I'll come right out and say it: I wonder if the word is out there among the players and agents that going to Minnesota means being hindered by the "Twins way".

Posted on July 7, 2013 at 12:07 AM by Rick 762

Or it could simply mean that since the Twins have always got a very young squad, these players don’t come into their own until later, after they’ve reached free agency. Since pitching is such a rare commodity, clubs looking to trade for it have to give up someone of value, and when your team is comprised of youngsters, that means dealing away potential. I don’t see it so much as a failure of “The Twins’ Way,” whatever that is, as I do the natural order of things in baseball. How many times have we read comments on this board saying the Twins need to go after some shut-down, power pitchers? To do so means you have to give up talent or potential to gain talent.

Posted on July 7, 2013 at 02:06 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 763

Excellent points Rick. The ASG just isn't what it once was, and I think that can be said true of the NBA and NHL ASGs as well. Nowadays its basically a money-grab for the leagues and the networks. The Pro Bowl the same way.

Posted on July 7, 2013 at 07:40 AM by luke Highlight this comment 764

Rick - these guys all blossomed after leaving the Twins.

Out of these former Twins all stars, Gomez and Ortiz are probably the only ones who truly blossomed AFTER leaving MN. Hunter was an all star as a Twin, Nathan was a top closer and (supposedly) on the downside of his career when he left, Hardy was a decent player who never really got a chance in his one year here, due to injuries. Cuddy was also rounding into his prime and the Twins let him get away rather then write the checks to keep him. Crain put up good numbers for a couple seasons to become a sought after bullpen guy.

I was ok with letting Nathan move on as it made little sense to pay him to close on a team that was going nowhere. Seeing Hunter go hurt, especially since he has played at a high level since leaving and would have been worth the salary here. Cuddy too. And they haven't quite replaced either in the lineup. They probably let Gomez go too early and then turned on Hardy way too quickly. Having nothing to show for the Santana trade is what really bothers me, especially now that Gomez DOES seem to be turning into a legit player.

I think these players getting away shows where the Twins spending mentality gets the best of them. None of these guys were looking for Pujols/Hamilton/A Rod salaries, but a good number of guaranteed years and higher pay. Rather than pay them the Twins go with youth (Span/Revere/Hicks) or interim "cheap" free agents (Willingham, etc). It can work out ok but having as many unknown factors as the Twins do every season does not usually work in the teams favor.

Posted on July 8, 2013 at 10:44 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 765

Regarding raising prices and getting more business, my dad had an old friend who was a real Angel Martin type for you Rockford Files fans, always into questionable ventures with a comedic touch about his persona. He was trying to sell a property he owned, but getting few takers. Most people would lower the price under the circumstances. He started increasing it, reasoning that he hadn't priced it at a level to attract the market he was seeking. The third time he bumped up the asking price, he found his buyer and walked away with a nice profit.

Posted on July 8, 2013 at 1:22 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 766

SteveB,

Great points. The Twins tend not to give big paydays, and that means talent leaves, even as you see it blossom.

But I wonder if somebody tracks this. Is there any other franchise that gives away as much talent as the Twins?

Jorge,

I hate to say it, but it's at least partly about shaking out the people who don't have a lot of disposable income. Living, as I do, within that sub-group of humanity, it's hard to see activities that I love priced out of my range. But it happens all the time, especially with arts and performing groups, but also sports and other types of entertainment.

From their perspective, it's a no-brainer. You want the people with money -- who don't care how much it costs -- as your primary customers. Then you can fill in with those who are more price-sensitive.

With the Twins, as jfh and others have suggested, there's something of a PR issue that goes along with this decision-making process (well, that and a little clause in the ballpark legislation which requires the team to keep a certain number of seats "affordable"). But the rules are still the same. Find the people with the most money, get them as your customers, and you'll have the most fiscal success.

Posted on July 8, 2013 at 2:22 PM by Rick 767

Hard to say if the Twins lose that battle more often than others. Teams that come to mind as unwilling to spend big are Miami, Texas, Seattle, Kansas City, San Diego, Milwaukee and Oakland.

On the opposite end are the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Phillies and lately the Tigers. Some of those moves work out decently (retaining Verlander, acquiring Fielder, Phillies pitching for a time) and some don't (Hamilton and Greinke so far, plenty of other names).

I don't need the Twins to break any banks, just be willing to pay a few veterans market price instead of always bringing in the discounted question mark. Mauer's big $ hurt but there was still room to add salary with the way Target Field opened. Terry Ryan makes many good moves but I wish we would see him make a bold move to retain a rising star or bring one in.

Posted on July 8, 2013 at 5:04 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 768

By the way Rick - have you added software that autocorrects some spelling errors and highlights others? Seems I am noticing some autocorrect and potential edit marks as I post now. Nice addition.

Posted on July 8, 2013 at 5:06 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 769

FWIW - Cuddy has said on a number of occasions after coming to Colorado that "the Twins way" was a very valuable part of his development as a player and that sometimes players forget to do the little things that make a difference, like running hard to first base, because you never know when you may end up on base because a fielder rushes a throw or commits an error that never happens if you are just jogging down the line.

He also credits Killebrew on learning how to treat fans (e.g. Have enough pride to sign your name so anyone can read it ad know who it belongs to without having to look up the number under the sig).

Posted on July 8, 2013 at 9:03 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 770

Cuddy on the NL HR derby team ...

Posted on July 8, 2013 at 9:05 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 771

Twins fans need to realize that spending money does not necessarily result in more wins. And even if the Twins went after one of the top FA's on the market, who is to say that player would even want to come to Minnesota?? The player has to have obvious interest in coming to the Twins in order for the Twins to win a bidding war with other teams in larger and/or more attractive markets.

And whether we want to admit it or not, the Pohlads have opened up their pocketbooks in recent years. Not necessarily the last couple of years, but looking back 4-5 years they have. In January 2008 they signed both Cuddyer (3 years $24 million and $10.5 million option for 2011) and Morneau (6 years $80 million). In March 2008, they signed Nathan to a 4 year $47 million deal with a $12.5 million option for 2012.

We all know they signed Mauer to 8 years $184 million in March 2010.

What has set the Twins back more than anything is their lack of success in the draft over the last decade or so. Not to mention some bad decisions by the front office, particularly, the whole Johan Santana deal and later the JJ Hardy deals. They also failed to trade several players who they knew were going to leave via free agency such at Crain, Guerrier and Nathan.

Over the last couple of years, the Twins have begun to re-establish their minor league system and the future of the franchise is much more clear with players like Buxton, Sano, Hicks and Gibson.

They key is to retain these players once they get to the big leagues.

It's not how much you spend on payroll, but how you spend it and who you spend it on. You don't want sign players long-term when they are injury-prone or past their primes. And if you know you have no chance on re-signing a player, than you need to trade them when their value is high. Bill Smith failed considerably at this...Johan Santana, JJ Hardy and Delmon Young all come to mind.

Any Twins fan should know they are in a "re-building" year and they were not going to have a $100+ million payroll.

I am not here to defend the Pohlads, but the Twins success/failures are much more than simply player payroll.

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 08:01 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 772

Mike - "The key is to retain these players once they get to the big leagues."

I am in full agreement with that. That's why I would have preferred they kept Cuddy instead of getting Willingham. The difference in their pay is "only" $3.5M and Cuddy is far more dimensional than Josh. We all loved it last year when the ball was leaving the park but we missed out on some defense and flexibility. And this year Willingham is non-existent.

When Bill Smith took over the Twins started an immediate slide by not getting anything for Santana. Then he traded Garza/Bartlett for Young/Harris.

I'm excited about the near future of the Twins with these prospects moving up. Hopefully by the time they are coming together at Target Field there will also be some quality veterans in place to solidify a team that can compete day in and day out.

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 09:16 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 773

The biggest concern I have is that all of those prospects are offensive, and none of them are pitchers. We have one, maybe two strong pitchers that qualify as good prospects in the system.

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 12:04 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 774

To clarify, I meant non-pitching, not just offense.

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 12:14 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 775

I see that goat roping concert is this Friday. Larry must be nervous! Will he have to put all new grass in after? Maybe go with some good local rye grass instead! Not impressed with the crap they truck in from Colorado so far!

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 1:26 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 776

^^^ Boo! No more grass talk!

I'm surprised there hasn't been much Viking Stadium talk on here lately. There has been lots happening with the Yard. It was approved today by the Community Development Committee (4 to 1).

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 4:12 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 777

Oh. No. Clicky.

In regards to what CSG said: Here's what I don't get, why does the stadium need to gain approval from all these committees and the city council after the Legislature AND the Governor signed off on it?

To me, is it not logical to get the approval FIRST before you start asking for the money for it? What happens if the Metro Council says no? What happens if Comm Development says no? What happens if the Ways and Means Committee says no? Then what do the Vikings do with the $900-some million we're ALREADY giving them (I'm sorry to all you smokers out there)? What if the City Council turns them down? Then what?

And please, when referring to USBank Stadium CSG, PLEASE don't refer to it as "The Yard". That appellation is reserved for ballparks, like Target Field. How about "The Vast Expanse"??

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 7:15 PM by luke Highlight this comment 778

Luke - this is unrelated to the stadium as it's a completely separate project.

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 8:58 PM by IowaWigman Highlight this comment 779

I thought the state was contributing $350 million and the city of Minneapolis was contributing $150 million. I was also under the assumption that the Vikings' portion of the tab would be $477 million. I don't know where Luke has come up with this $900 million figure for state and civic contributions.

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 9:13 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 780

Perhaps Luke is lumping the park area west of the stadium in his figures. What's that supposed to cost, and who's picking up the tab? By the way, when they refer to "The Yard," they're referring to that parkland adjacent to the stadium, not the stadium itself.

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 10:03 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 781

All major civic projects require a variety of approvals. Mostly this means that it gets reviewed by some portion of the government, and may undergo some minor change or have some problem identified for solving later. At this point, while not entirely a formality, most of the approvals out there for the stadium are basically assumed to be given.

The same is true for the development plans we've seen floated for the nearby land. That's in a slightly different category for a variety of reasons, but that train will have to make many of the same stops as the stadium, and those approvals will be at least partly intertwined with what is happening at the Stadium Authority.

It's hard to know just what to make of it all. If it happens as envisioned, that side of downtown could really be livened up.

I'm surprised that no one commented on the rash of articles from a couple of weeks ago about whether the new stadium spells the death of tailgating...

Posted on July 9, 2013 at 10:40 PM by Rick 782

Headlines this morning focused on Gibson's one inning meltdown. Some mention should also be made of an offense that consisted of a hit batter, two base error and sac fly. The starting pitchers aren't the only ones who have to "give the team a chance to win".

Posted on July 10, 2013 at 08:51 AM by terry Highlight this comment 783

When do we trade Perk to the Tigers for pitching? I see thunderstorms in the forecast for Friday night! Will it be a Woodstock mud fest at TF??? What will Larry do?

Posted on July 10, 2013 at 10:16 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 784

^^^I am starting to think you were a grazing steer in a previous life. I have never seen someone so preoccupied with the ins and outs of grass.

Posted on July 10, 2013 at 12:59 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 785

^^^^^^MOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Posted on July 10, 2013 at 1:30 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 786

Given the concurrent obsession with value-priced convenience store food, I'm suspicious of a preoccupation with the another type of "grass."

Posted on July 10, 2013 at 2:06 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 787

Tough loss. Scott should have been called out on strikes for the 3rd out. Disappointed.

Posted on July 10, 2013 at 11:02 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 788

Where are the leaders on this team? I know we hashed this out a while back, but this team desperately needs a public leader leader, at least to keep me more engaged. After the loss tonight, I saw emotion from Ulger in the dugout kicking a Gatorade cup on the ground. For me personally, that showed me that there was frustration and a real sense of disappointment. I would like to see more of that heart in frustration (doesn't have to be kicking things) and turn that into some positive strides.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 12:47 AM by tk Highlight this comment 789

Reusse says time for Gardy to go.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 01:09 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 790

I haven't read Reusse's column, but I can't seem to think about anything else when I imagine the future. This franchise needs a reboot -- big time.

Gardy's been great, but sometimes you just need change, and that's where this team feels to me like it is right now. It has nothing to do with tonight's loss specifically -- it's not smart to make big decisions after losing a walk-off extra-inning game which completed the sweep for your opponents -- but it has everything to do with how this team looked tonight because that's pretty much how they've looked for a long time now.

Patience is a virtue, but so is impatience. It's just plain time to try something else. Anything else.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 01:22 AM by Rick 791

They still play the Rays today yet at 11:00. After they worked most of the bullpen last night. Then on to New York.

Sigh...

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 05:34 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 792

Is firing Gardenhire really the answer?? To me, its more than just the manager. I do think Gardenhire's time as manager has come to an end. Even though its not all on the manager, I think the Twins need some new blood and a new vision.

However, we are talking about the Pohlad-owned Minnesota Twins here meaning they promote from within rather than go outside the organization for new blood.

So say Gardenhire is fired, resigns or simply not offered a new contract following the season...who do you replace him with? Scott Ullger?? It's going to do no good getting rid of Gardenhire unless the entire staff is replaced. The only exception is the new guys like Brunansky, Steinbach or Cuellar.

I also would not mind giving Miami a call and inquiring about Mike Redmond. Maybe Paul Molitor would be interested?

Jerry White, Steve Liddle and Rick Stelmazcek took the fall last year. Ullger, Vavra and Anderson need to go this year.

And if these Twins coaches were all so great and admired, than why have none of them ever been considered or mentioned for managerial openings over the years?? You never hear of any teams going after the Twins' coaches for potential managerial openings.

Just like they "fired" Bill Smith as GM but than "re-assigned" him to another front office position...only the Pohlad-owned Twins would do that!

There are no leaders what-so-ever on this team. In the past they have had players such as Koskie, Guardado, Pierzynski, Hunter, Santana, and Cuddyer step up and get vocal at times. This team has nothing...

Remember when Hunter punched Morneau a few years ago?? Remember when Hunter charged the mound against the Cleveland pitcher or when Hunter leveled the White Sox catcher. We need some players like that on this team that can light a fire when needed.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 08:25 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 793

Luke, others already said it for me, but I was not talking about the stadium. It was sort of Viking Stadium related news for DTE. I will NOT call it US Bank etc. until it really has a name. Until then it is the New Viking Stadium. The Yard is the Ryan proposal for the Star Tribune blocks. It's looking like Wells Fargo won't commit until this fall/winter. Still interesting.

Another development in sporting buildings... did you see the U's proposed $190 mil facilities? Looks interesting. Could raise the U's sports to a whole new level. http://www.gophersports.com/genrel/071013aae.html

As for the Twins... it's sad. A coworker bet the over/under preseason in Vegas at 68.5. We thought for sure it was easy money. It's gonna be VERY close now. I'd be all for a regime change in the off season.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 08:42 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 794

There has been a hemmorrhaging of talent since the 2010 division title. Cuddy, Kubel, Hardy, Hudson, the entire 2010 bullpen, etc. Many left via free agency and some via one-sided trades. As a result of this loss of talent, a number of young players have been rushed to the Twins before they are really ready. So in a key spot last night, a 23 year old with a lot of potential but who should be at AAA this year, swings wildly and leaves the potential winning run on 3d base.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 08:44 AM by terry Highlight this comment 795

Mike, did your coworker pick the 'over', or the 'under'?

I'm trying to remember what I guessed for Twins wins this season. I think I guessed 72, that seems optimistic now.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 08:45 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 796

A nice view down 2B to 3B line, down 6th street, to the ::gulp:: multi-foods tower. :)

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 09:14 AM by jared Highlight this comment 797

Oops. My mental schedule failed me.

But to Mike's point about who's out there, it's time to get somebody from outside the organization.

I think everybody just sort of assumes it will be Molitor, and I'm fine with that.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 09:19 AM by Rick 798

Oh and not to stir the pot but in case you didn't notice twinfan, the field pattern is different. Has been for a while now.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 09:31 AM by jared Highlight this comment 799

The Twins decided not to re-up with many of those over-30 veterans because overpaying for what is typically declining productivity is not wise, unless money is no object (coughYANKEEScough). However, by not trading most of those guys, and not even offering arb to some, the Twins got too little in return. Smart front offices are two steps ahead; the Twins have always seemed reactionary.

The team really does have good young talent coming. It would be a bit of a shame to dump Gardy before guys like Sano and Buxton arrive, but I don't disagree that the team needs a jump start. I certainly would not can him mid-season - that would suggest that he's managing and underperforming team, and I don't think anyone really expected this team to contend. It's also not Gardy's fault that the team has no power and the pitchers collectively stink.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 09:48 AM by BR Highlight this comment 800

I agree with reusse time for Mr We battled our tails off to go along with most of his staff. Put him out of his misery. Also send Larry Boy packing to the Saints. Get a real grounds crew in here. FCOL!

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 09:53 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 801

No way Gardy disappears mid-season. That would require the Pohlads to pay for two managers and dollars are far more important than baseball - which is the real problem.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 10:09 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 802

FTK - he took the over. Needs 69 wins. We're still searching for where they might come from...

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 10:25 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 803

I think Anderson should go mid-season. And if the team doesn't react positively and over-perform the rest of the way, then Gardy should not be re-signed. I am OK with him managing out the season.

But Anderson needs to go.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 10:32 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 804

Gardy likely knew that this was his last year here. See link from a few months back about him selling his house (apologies if this was mentioned earlier already--as it likely was).

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 12:33 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 805

We should designate twinfan for assignment.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 1:11 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 806

My pipe dream: Twins manager Joe Maddon. Will never happen, but still...

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 1:19 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 807

The new manager will come from within the organization - whoever will work the cheapest.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 2:14 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 808

So...what what does everybody think Larry Boy is thinking on this, McChesney Eve?

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 4:53 PM by luke Highlight this comment 809

My mental schedule was off, but perhaps it was a premonition...

You know, Bobby Valentine was a train-wreck in Boston, but the guy just needs to find the right organization. He would certainly shake up One Twins Way.

Posted on July 11, 2013 at 6:09 PM by Rick 810

Ozzie Guillén, he'd liven up the place.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 03:24 AM by Dave Highlight this comment 811

Luke, I bet old Larry is cowering in the dugout tracking the sod trucks coming from Colorado. Since the product on the field stinks lets talk about these silly goat roping concerts at TF. Why not have these over at the bank? Didn't U-2 play over there??? Did catch a Washington Nationals game a few days back and that field looked fantastic. I'm thinking they don't miss Larry a bit! Make sure all you cowboys and cowgirls load up with some Holiday Brats and dogs before heading into the goat roping concert! Yeee Haaaaaa!!!!!

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 09:26 AM by twinfan Highlight this comment 812

The New York Times has a story on the dying art of keeping score by hand at baseball games. Figured folks here might find it interesting.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 10:10 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 813

The issues with the Twins and pitching go much deeper than Anderson. It starts with the scouting and drafting, then goes to the minors. Anderson is in his late era Dick Such spot now, but he's getting mostly garbage handed to him. Who was the last legit major league starter the Twins actually developed? Disqualify the late 2000s names that hung around year after year with astonishingly bad records and ERAs given the team's overall performance and ambitions. I mean bonafide, dependable, long term Major League pitchers. Jim Rantz retired a bit too late, but his proteges remain. They have failed. It's time to clean house.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 11:05 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 814

For a completely different baseball topic, what are your thoughts on Puig being "left off" the NL All Star team? I have no problem with it. Sure, he is a rising star and exciting to watch but he also has a pretty limited resume to go on. He might have drawn a few more viewers, but are those viewers really going to be patient enough to wait around until the 7th, 8th or 9th inning to see him get his one at bat?

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 12:19 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 815

A brief Q and A on the Vikings website about the new stadium. See link.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 12:21 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 816

Let's pump it up around here for Kenny Chesney tonight!!!

Meanwhile, in the Bronx, the Twins continue their slide against the Yankees...

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 1:51 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 817

I've heard the Twins want to do 5-6 of these big concerts per year. They are not going away, so quit hoping that they do.

I think the stadium concerts are starting to be more and more popular. Soon I bet we see some that are back-to-back Friday and Saturday nights with different tours. Think of the savings that there are to be had by only paying for half of the stadium conversion! WOW!

My prediction vs NYY, 0-3.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 2:33 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 818

Cano will come to the plate and "our" guy will throw 88 MPH right down the middle hoping to induce a ground ball out. And THAT is why Gardy has to go.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 2:41 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 819

Ben that is the twins way! Pitch to contact! LOL!

5-6 concerts a year?? Hell they might as well just put some field turf like they have at the new Siebert field then. Larry can rest at ease and just mow a nice pattern in the shredded tires and plastic grass. What a joke! Move all those concerts to the Bank. It was good enough for U-2 wasn't it??? I bet Larry wouldn't mind seeing that!

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 2:58 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 820

Perk has not had a save opportunity since June 27? Looks like trade bait to me. Tigers for one would be drooling for this guy!

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 3:22 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 821

Why would the Twins want to move a $$$ making event to the U and make $0?!?

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 822

Well based upon what the powers that be want tailgaiting would be A thing of the past.

People want to make money they can only do that if your spending money in their space. Thats why they want to build this big space in front of the new stadium so people can come early and party eat drink whatever of course buying whatever there selling. Besisde they want to replace parking lots with parking ramps doesnt leave much space for tailgaiting.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 4:11 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 823


Linky for large.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 5:07 PM by jared Highlight this comment 824

Lol twin fan. CSG I think you are right. Stadium shows were huge back in the 80s. The ballpark concerts still provide the "stadium" feel but are a bit more intimate IMHO.

The stadium shows I regret not going to are Pink Floyd's The Wall at the Dumpty in 1984, The Stones' Steel Wheels in 1989, Genesis in 1993 and Metallica, GNR and Faith No More in 1992.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 6:52 PM by luke Highlight this comment 825

This from Wikipedia about Pink Floyd at the Dome:
"Pink Floyd mesmerized the audience during their 'A Momentary Lapse of Reason' Tour on May 24, 1988, and again during 'The Division Bell' Tour on June 22, 1994, when an amazing sound & light show included a lotus-shaped spinning laser machine that sprouted out of the center of the dome during the set, and large props like a flying pig balloon. Both Pink Floyd Dome shows were without original founding member, songwriter & bassist Roger Waters, who continues to have a successful solo career."

No mention of "The Wall." Floyd performed "The Wall" in only two US cities: Los Angeles and Uniondale, NY, back in 1980. In October 2010, Waters (sans the rest of Floyd) brought "The Wall Live" to the Xcel Center.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 8:19 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 826

Guess you're right, I checked too...no mention of The Wall.
I had a friend whose mom worked at the Dome in concessions (Volume Services), and I swear I had seen a souvenir cup at his house that had The Wall logo on it and "Minneapolis 1984"...

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 9:40 PM by luke Highlight this comment 827

What has derailed more - the 2013 Twins season or this message board? Discuss.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 10:12 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 828

Ohhhh for twelve with runners in scorers position in the eighth. Pathetic.

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 10:37 PM by terry Highlight this comment 829

When do the BPM tryouts happen?

Posted on July 12, 2013 at 10:57 PM by TK Highlight this comment 830

Is there still more complaining about anemic hitting, weak pitching, and questionable managerial and front office moves to come that we haven't already given a real good going-over?

Sorry I derailed that train.

Posted on July 13, 2013 at 01:11 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 831

I have some shocking news - hope everyone is sitting down.

The Twins played the Yankees today and won.

Posted on July 13, 2013 at 3:03 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 832

Monkeys and typewriters. Nice to see though.

Posted on July 13, 2013 at 3:06 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 833

Give Ol' Man Gardy an extension! LOL. Too bad unemployment evaded him - now he and Larry Boy have to deal with the aftermath of that goat-roping concert at TF! At least he can still take his lunch breaks over at the gas station next door at gobble down a couple cheap but tasty Holiday dogs!! FCOL!!!

(gawd, it's just too easy.)

Posted on July 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 834

RonDick showed their extreme homerism today when they berated the umpires for calling Thomas out for interference in the 7th. Seems like the correct application of rule 6.05(k) to me. But it worked out for the Twins in the long run, as Gardy threw his temper tantrum and Floriman proceeded to jack one out right after.

Posted on July 13, 2013 at 3:58 PM by antifire Highlight this comment 835

I would agree; Thomas was NOT in the running lane. He should have been called out. However, if I'm the manager I go out and argue that call every time since it is a judgment call by the umpire, to an extent.

GoAUpher - great article on keeping score. I always keep score when I am coaching but only do it about 25% of the time @ TF. It definitely does keep me more in the game, but sometimes I don't mind if I'm not in the game, depending on who I go to the game with.

I hope TF never hosts another concert for no other reason than to avoid reading this site the week before - I can't handle it. Sorry.

Posted on July 13, 2013 at 10:26 PM by ole Highlight this comment 836

TF is hosting some sort of local music festival in like two weeks, ole. We complain about it cause, well frankly, our beautiful ballpark gets ruined by these things...lol

Posted on July 13, 2013 at 10:45 PM by luke Highlight this comment 837

Unplayable!

Posted on July 13, 2013 at 11:01 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 838

Decided to watch the Giants/Padres game tonight on MLB.TV and was a treat to watch Lincecum show what pitching is all about with the no-no

Posted on July 14, 2013 at 12:29 AM by TK Highlight this comment 839

Twins take 2 of 3 from the Yankees, and no comments? Everyone here must be in shock...

Posted on July 14, 2013 at 7:16 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 840

And in The Bronx to boot. I for one, am in shock.

Posted on July 14, 2013 at 8:12 PM by luke Highlight this comment 841

I've been spending the afternoon getting my affairs in order and getting right with The Lord.

Posted on July 14, 2013 at 9:52 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 842

I wonder what will happen to the HR Derby next season, as TF is apparently a difficult place to hit HRs. The State Farm Base Running Derby? The Monster.com Baseball Throwing Contest? The LA Fitness Little League vs Major League Game?

Of course, if they get four of the best HR hitters in MLB, it could be interesting. See who can hit one to land on the Blue Line tracks. Or hit the wall of Ramp B. Or drive one far enough to break a window at Hubert's...which is 918 ft from home plate...

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 06:41 AM by luke Highlight this comment 843

I missed most of the telecast yesterday, but I am sure they acted like the Twins just won some big postseason series and how they can carry that "momentum" into the 2nd half of the season? It was nice to see them take 2 of 3 in New York but they were still 2-5 against the Yankees this year and 3-7 on the road trip.

And I read in the Star Tribune that Chris Parmelee was "shocked" after being sent to AAA Rochester? Someone batting .232 with 66 strikeouts in 242 at-bats is shocked at being demoted to AAA??? That speaks for itself how low the expectations are on this team. Good for Terry Ryan for sending him and Arcia down to AAA. Parmelee has has had more than his fair share of opportunities over recent years.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 08:22 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 844

Luke - they can just let the Twins pitchers throw for the HR contest next year. Visiting teams don't seem to have any problem hitting HRs at TF.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 09:10 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 845

Last night on Rosen's Sports Sunday they did a story on the "lost" foul pole from Met Stadium. Only part of it aired last night, with more coming next week. Anyone else see it? Clicky.

Rick, are you hiding the foul pole somewhere?

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 08:23 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 846

I wish! (Did you catch my name in the closing credits?)

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 09:22 AM by Rick 847

https://twitter.com/TCGroundsCrew

For those really interested in the field at TF. You better be following the grounds crew on Twitter. They show lots of grass pictures.

Love to see the Twins take 2/3 from the Bronx Bombers over the weekend. Wow!

Next year's ASG and HRD will be amazing!!! I can't wait to be there for both.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 09:27 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 848

Right off the top of my head I believe the Met foul poles are in use at one of the older fields at the Valley View complex.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 10:03 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 849

You're half right Ben. One of the foul poles was cut into 2 pieces and is at Haddox Field. That is part of the story. The other pole is in question.

Rick, I missed the credits but wondered if you had been involved somewhere along the way.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 10:16 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 850

Here's the short version on the poles:

They went from the Met to Normandale College. When Normandale scuttled their athletics programs, they paved over the ballfield. Meanwhile, folks in Bloomington were looking for nice poles for Red Haddox Field. They got permission to take the old Met poles from Normandale, but found that the left field one was in pretty rough shape (basically rusting in the weeds).

They took the right field one, cut it in half, and installed the two halves at their park, where they remain to this day:


The whereabouts of the other pole (the left field one) remain a mystery, though the teaser for next week's conclusion made it look like maybe they found some evidence of it in the weeds behind the old Normandale ballfield.

(The reporter contacted me for permission to use photos from OldMetStadium.com, which he said were very helpful in determining just when the poles disappeared from the crumbling Met after it closed.)

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 10:27 AM by Rick 851

Here's the link to the video:

The Quest To Find Met Stadium’s Foul Poles

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 10:52 AM by Rick 852

Odd that Doepner didn't know about the flagpole - he knew pretty much everything else.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 1:52 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 853

I would LOVE to be at the HR derby a year from now at TF - I told my wife that sitting somewhere in the outfield seats with a glove for that would be at the top of my bucket list! Now the question is this: how much do you think I will have to pay for a seat in the outfield if I try to scalp or go off of stubhub?!?! I figured all of you would have a better idea than most...

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 3:05 PM by ole Highlight this comment 854

Ole - right now the OF seats for tonight's are pretty scarce on Stubhub and the cheapest out there in home run territory appear to be over $300. 5th level infield seats are lowest prices and still over $150. Not sure if that is reflective of what the market is or has been, or if that is just last minute price fluctuations.

For a HR derby at TF, I would expect just about any OF seat will be in potential hitting zone and prices will start high, maybe drop some if demand doesn't snap them up, and then probably go up near the game date. No idea what the price levels might see though.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 3:22 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 855

WOW, Looked at the Twins ground crew pics of the field after the goat roping concert. Looks like most of the stuff in CF and outfield being replaced as it all died! LOL! Larry boy gonna have some crazy looking loose sod for a while! I guess next year they will schedule those concerts after the All Star Game. Larry will be on double secret probation for sure next year. Maybe MLB will bring in a real greens keeper to help old Larry out???

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 3:35 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 856

I've never banned a topic before, but the boring and completely unwarranted criticism of the TF groundskeeping crew is getting on my nerves.

Unlike everyone else, I do not have the luxury of invoking the "ignore" button.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 3:40 PM by Rick 857

You make a good point Stevie. I suppose if they let the Twins pitching staff throw creampuffs for the HR Derby, there will be LOTS of HRs next year ;).
On that topic, how does that work for pitchers for the HR derby? Is one selected by the league? Host team? One for AL one for NL? since there are only four contestants, can each select one from his respective team? Guess I haven't paid enough attention to know how it works.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 4:04 PM by luke Highlight this comment 858

Nah, they don't have pitchers. Just some random guy chucking the ball in. Oh, and they get, let's see, um, 10 outs -- yeah, that's it.

And if you believe that...

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 4:17 PM by Rick 859

...I've got a piece of the old Met flag pole that I want to sell ya...

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 4:20 PM by Rick 860

Luke,

The player picks who tosses the ball to them. A few of the guys (Harper and Cano) are having their Dad pitch. How awesome is that?

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 4:26 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 861

The hitters get to choose who they want to throw to them. Bryce Harper chose his dad for tonight. Some players in the past have chosen high school coaches, minors coaches, other family members, etc.

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 4:29 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 862

I see the tribe comes to down this weekend for the only weekend home series in July. 16 home games after labor day. TF is going to be a ghost town for sure. Sit anywhere you want folks. What a horrific home schedule this year!

Posted on July 15, 2013 at 4:40 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 863

Nice to see Cuddy place 3rd in the HR Derby.

Would be nice to see him invited to next year's Derby at TF - I would hope he would get a good ovation.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 07:49 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 864

Re TF HR Derby. Wouldn't being on the plaza be a good spot? And, if so, how will the team handle that? Will it be roped off? Special viewing/SRO tickets? Or will anyone with a ticket be allowed to stand there?

If anyone can stand there, then it would be silly to pay extra for an OF seat somewhere. Just buy the cheapest ticket you can find and get there early.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 09:36 AM by BR Highlight this comment 865

BR, I am sure they are trying to figure that out. My guess is there will be some sort of section created out there. The new Great Clips seats will be expensive for sure! Watching the HR Derby last night I was even wondering if the top of the B Ramp will be in play?

They can only hope we have weather like yesterday and today a year from now. Perfect for the long ball and activities around town.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 10:35 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 866

Top of the B Ramp would be a massive blast. I think that might require a mortar tube and some gunpowder.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 10:42 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 867

I was at the Jul 3 game and watched Yankees take BP. Not sure who it was but someone put one probably 3/4 of the way up in the Grandstand section. Top of the ramp would be a stretch but there could be some 3rd deck LF shots and you might not even need a ticket to get a souvenir if you manage to be in the right place on the plaza behind gate 34.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 10:55 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 868

I have an email from the curator of hittracker with details of locations and distances around the park and whether places are reachable. I know for sure I have posted those details on here before (during the opening season) but I can dig to find it again and repost.

Basically if you watched the HR derby you would see a few things:

1) Any 100 level outfield seat at TF will not be in play much, if at all. These guys aren't trying to "just clear the fence" and the overhanging 200 levels cut off many homers of the variety of distance these guys are going for.

2) As long as there are a few rightys the second and third deck in left field are going to be peppered. Will be interesting to see how high up the 300 level they hit them. I have seen some of the Rangers batters hit mid-way up the 331-332-ish levels.

3) Seems as though leftys are the top choices in the past and if that holds par, then the grandstand (Trapezoid seats) and potentially even the powerball pavilion are going to be the prime "seats". But that right-center gap with that wall will eat a lot of potential homers.

4) The plaza entrance will in all likelihood be packed with ballhawks and they will be greatly rewarded but you will want to stand on the centerfield side about halfway back.

5) Target Plaza will be the McCovey Cove of the 2014 home run derby.

6) There is a good chance center field 200 level seats nabs some homers when viewing the bombs they were hitting to center last night.

7) I wanna sit in the bronze glove and glove a HR Derby ball in the glove.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 11:29 AM by jared Highlight this comment 869

Sorry, that last one was supposed to be followed with this:


I'm sure you all will get it, and if not I can probably guess who won't. No worries though. Its just fun and games.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 11:40 AM by jared Highlight this comment 870

Never thought I'd see Xzibit on this site! :)

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 1:03 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 871

Has anyone ever made reservations at the Metro Club? I have a reservation for the 5pm seating Fri night against the Tribe. Gates open at 5, is there a secret way to get to the Metro Club I don't know about, or is the Gate Open time kinda a given? Just curious how it works. Thanks.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 1:10 PM by luke Highlight this comment 872

Luke - try the entrance on the skyway that goes between club level and Parking Ramp A. You can also access this skyway from Ramp A or using the stairs from street level.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 2:27 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 873

How about that...8 current and (mostly, obviously) former Twins on the ASG rosters. Pretty cool to see such good representation. Not to mention Cuddy was getting glowing reviews during the HR derby last night.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 7:05 PM by jared Highlight this comment 874

Thanks Stevie

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 8:02 PM by luke Highlight this comment 875

Actually it is 10 current or former Twins players in the All-Star Game.
American League
Mauer
Perkins
Nathan
Hardy
Hunter
Crain
Ortiz
Balfour

National League
Cuddyer
Gomez

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 8:57 PM by PNB19 Highlight this comment 876

Thanks PNB I apparently wasn't paying good attention and missed a pretty obvious one (Ortiz) and one of the lesser knowns (Balfour).

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 9:33 PM by jared Highlight this comment 877

I made this a while ago and decided tonight was worth the release.


As always, bigger in the link.

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 11:09 PM by jared Highlight this comment 878

Jared - terrific pic!

Very classy for the players to be off the field when Mo came in tonight. Nice (and a lot of "What if" to see all the former Twins in the game tonight. And I was a bit partial to three Rockies in the starting lineup.

The best news is that the ASG focus officially moves west to Minneapolis tomorrow morning. :)

Posted on July 16, 2013 at 11:40 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 879

I can't wait for the Twins to release the 2014 All-Star Game logo. The MLB All-Star Game logo is one of the few remaining logos that is unique to the host site each year. Everything else is trending more towards standardized logos (Super Bowl, NFL/NHL/NBA drafts, Stanley Cup Finals, etc)

There will be a lot of good merchandise and collectibles to add to my collection with that logo on it.

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 08:34 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 880

I agree - I don't buy a lot of collectible stuff, but I will want most of the Twins ASG stuff. All of the pins, Twins and Rockies jerseys, caps, the mini statues, polo and T-shirts and a few other things. If Cuddy is back in the HR derby, a Cuddy jersey too.

For now, I'm just waiting for the logo and an idea of how much the strips are going to cost and for the hotel to take my reservation. I was going to stay at the Graves, but it was sold out a few months ago.

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 12:33 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 881

If anyone would like an autographed Legends Club seat back, please PM me. No charge - you just pick it up - maybe buy me a beer at the park sometime ...

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 3:07 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 882

Show of hands who thought these 5 would be All-Stars
when they played for the Twins??? (not me...)
Hardy
Crain
Ortiz
Balfour
Gomez

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 3:16 PM by jcmbaseball Highlight this comment 883

Seat back has been spoken for. Sorry, I only have one.

As for potential All Stars, I would say Crain as a maybe and Hardy only as a maybe because I saw the potential when the Twins signed him, but certainly not when he was here.

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 3:32 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 884

When will the logo for the 2014 ASG be released? I agree, all the others are becoming standardized. The NCAA Final Four is moving that direction too. While there still are unique components, the NCAA standardized the typeset for "Final Four" several years ago.

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 5:41 PM by luke Highlight this comment 885

This year's logo was released early August last year, so I would guess within 3-4 weeks.

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 9:14 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 886

FCOL!

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 10:15 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 887

(Sigh)Here we go again...

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 10:49 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 888

Happily, looks like the upcoming Skyline Music Festival will only affect a small portion of the grass in foul territory.

Posted on July 17, 2013 at 11:16 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 889

Anyone else tired of the fawning over Mariano Rivera? I get it. He's been a great closer. The best. Lucky enough to play on a team that outspent the next closest competitor cumulatively by about half a billion dollars over his career, ensuring ongoing postseason opportunities in the nation's largest media market.

But he was a closer. As in, failed starter. As in, most overrated "position" ever created in baseball. Giving him the ASG MVP for getting 3 outs with no Ks in the 8th inning was laughable. When did that award become a bauble handed out for lifetime achievement??

Might as well give next year's to Jeter right now.

Time to get more coffee. Sorry for the interruption to our ongoing lawn care discussion.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 08:53 AM by BR Highlight this comment 890

All-Star logo to be unveiled at the end of the month. So I am guessing it will be Tuesday July 30 or Wednesday July 31 when the Twins are home.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 09:06 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 891

Interesting video about "A Day in the Life of Target Field" in the link.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 09:56 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 892

fiesta,

Thanks for sharing. It's amazing what really goes into putting on a little 3 hr game. Lots of cool stuff. I am sure they could do a whole series of these and they would never get boring to us stadium geeks.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 11:19 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 893

I agree that naming Rivera MVP was mostly about sentiment and not really about the game at all. I suppose that when there's no other clear winner, going with the sentimental favorite is inevitable.

But didn't Mauer call six innings of shutout baseball? I'm sure that would be a tough sell in the press box, but I think a case could be made that he made the most valuable contribution to the shutout win.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 12:22 PM by Rick 894

I'm sure Mauer was the MVP in Sid's crusty eyes.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 12:44 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 895

Here is the terribly unfortunate downside to one aspect of the All Star Game. Linky....

Yes, that happened.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 1:07 PM by jared Highlight this comment 896

Wow. Just, wow. And all of those idiot tweeters are WHITE GUYS -- or is that just generally true?

My objections were entirely musical. He sang quite well, of course, but sometimes I think that singers and arrangers should be forced to take a look at the original Irving Berlin sheet music before getting such gigs. I know this is just a personal bias, but to me, melody matters. "God Bless America" is essentially a perfect song, and that's because every note was carefully selected for a reason by the composer.

Hmm. I sound a little like an angry white male Tweeter. #DontFuckWithIrvingBerlin

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 1:35 PM by Rick 897

Idiocy on twitter isn't color blind.

And I agree with you, stick with the original. I don't have a problem with crazy runs or radical guitar riffs, but not in the SSB. That's probably the one song (or one of very few) that I prefer be left alone.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 1:57 PM by jared Highlight this comment 898

I meant to reference God Bless America as well (as songs I prefer left alone)...oh well. Not sure why I only went with SSB, brain lapse apparently.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 1:58 PM by jared Highlight this comment 899

I think the Rivera tribute was fine and fitting for one of the most respected players in the game. Yes, a closer is somewhat of a manufactured position, but it's rare to have someone be dominant in the position for a few years, let alone 19.

I would have given the MVP to Sale, but, absent some game saving play, MVP in the ASG is an award that doesn't really mean much.

Even as much as most Twins fans don't like the Yankees, it's really hard not to like Rivera or appreciate what he has done in his career. Sorry BR, but I suspect you are in a small minority on this topic.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 2:04 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 900

Admiring Rivera for his accomplishments and consistency over the span of his long career is one thing, but there has been a ridiculous amount of gushing over the guy. I agree with BR on this one. Enough is enough, already.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 3:03 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 901

It just galls me when people either get sloppy, or lazy, or worse -- think they can improve on Berlin.

Same thing goes for the SSB, which, as a melody, is pretty well vetted, even if it's "hard to sing." (I think that's significantly overplayed. If you start on the right note, it's not really that hard.) Adding, removing, or changing notes is not really appropriate. (Here's my arrangement for choir, which is heard here in demo form since it has not yet been performed.)

For the record, I blame it all on Mariah Carey.

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 3:03 PM by Rick 902

Wow, Rick dropping the hashtag f-bomb. That's unexpected!

Posted on July 18, 2013 at 3:34 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 903

Almost as bad as someone showing up at a Folk Festival with an electric guitar.

Posted on July 19, 2013 at 01:49 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 904

I think a better question is why are they singing God Bless America at the All Star Game in the first place?

I mean I get it, we sing it at Twins games on Sundays because it's Sunday and a lot of people go to church on Sundays, and some may have skipped church to get to the game.

Not all of us are religious though and I personally would prefer not to hear it. I think the only songs we need to hear at baseball games are the Star Spangled Banner, and Take Me Out to the Ball Game. I don't make a big fuss when the play it on Sundays, I'll sit and politely listen, but I'm not a huge fan of how it gets played all the time.

Posted on July 19, 2013 at 08:39 AM by schda Highlight this comment 905

Moving right along for Downtown East plan. See link.

Posted on July 19, 2013 at 11:41 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 906

TR on WCCO right now. Someone should explain to him that grabbing up washed out hollow shells for cheap is not the same as being "active on the free agent market."

Posted on July 19, 2013 at 1:24 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 907

rick i thought you were gonna do a review of the new stadium

Posted on July 19, 2013 at 7:08 PM by longtimelistener Highlight this comment 908

The Metropolitan Club is amazing. The buffet was great. And since we had reservations for the 5pm seating, and got inside seats, we stayed in vented ACd comfort for the entire game, kinda like being in a 375 seat suite :)

Posted on July 20, 2013 at 07:50 AM by luke Highlight this comment 909

Been out of town and out of touch for awhile. Just read the disgusting tweet about an Hispanic singing God Bless America. Brings to mind the NHL All-Star game which was played at Met Center in about 1970. It was the height of Vietnam protests, Spiro Agnew rants,hard hat thuggery and other unpleasant topics. In that toxic atmosphere, people angrily complained because the Canadian national anthem was played as well as the SSB at the all-star game.

Posted on July 20, 2013 at 6:48 PM by terry Highlight this comment 910

Nhl ASG @ the Met was 1972. Clicky

Posted on July 20, 2013 at 9:45 PM by luke Highlight this comment 911

Rick - have you thought about accepting reader submissions for blog entries? Might help keep the site more fresh. Just a thought. I need more Luke!

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 09:12 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 912

TTH - there you go pickax - click: DIRECT from the NHL website. 1972 was at the Met.

Just in case your pea-sized brain can't get over that:
NHL ASG Ticket this one outghta shut you up, it's a picture of a ticket FROM the GD game, WITH the date.

Don't judge me til the bloom is off your rose there buddy.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 1:56 PM by luke Highlight this comment 913

Geez, Luke, I don't think anyone was questioning whether you were right or not about the ASG at the Met Center.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 3:26 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 914

I could have taken it wrong Winona, but TTH has had a history of questioning things that I say here. I guess "I need more" struck me as "do you have other sources than Wikipedia" which of course, was the original link I had.
Perhaps I misunderstood. If that's the case, I apologize.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 3:37 PM by luke Highlight this comment 915

I remember watching that game on TV back then. The players all stayed at the Radisson South on highway 100 and I-494. While they were staying there, someone plunged to their death from one of the upper floors of the hotel. A couple player witnessed the person falling past their window.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 3:41 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 916

The one thing that always disappointed me about the Stars' tenure here was that it was pre-cable TV deals. Seemed to me games were hard to find on the telly, and their channel: 41 in those days, got horrible reception.
Not to bring hockey into it, but what is everybodys thoughts on the realignment? Dallas will now be a division rival for the Wild.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 4:15 PM by luke Highlight this comment 917

Um, no. I was suggesting you, among others, write a guest blog entry. That is all. I believe it was still snowing when the current blog entry was posted.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 5:56 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 918

I need more Luke. vs. I need more, Luke.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 5:57 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 919

My bad. Sorry TTH.
You might be right...the first comment on this entry was in April, I believe we did in fact have snow...lol.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 7:10 PM by luke Highlight this comment 920

Rick, Was that Noah I saw on the scoreboard this afternoon? Great day for a ballgame. Tough pitcher for the Local Nine to face.

Posted on July 21, 2013 at 8:54 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 921


This page was last modified on April 15, 2013.



"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3045 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.


The outfield stands taking shape.



Looking the other direction, again from Ford Centre, you can see what's going on over the tracks. This will be a public promenade.



Section 125, Row 1









Clyde Doeppner proudly displays colored bricks he scavenged from the Met during its demolition. These are the colors in question!



That is pretty close... (Grandstand)












Note the speakers hanging beneath that deck



The view from the Penn Ave entrance to 394 (and all the way into town! Click to enlarge)



This is a closer look at the steel work.



Click to enlarge. (Photo by Jared Wieseler)






20 minutes to get from our seat to the street. Miss this place? Nah.



The rules were clearly posted next to this new entry point on the Seventh Street side. I have no problem with the rules!



Such promise. (Click to enlarge.)



September 23, 2007






10 years ago, Bruce Lambrecht looked at this land and thought, "Why NOT a ballpark here?" It took a long time before anybody else saw the same potential.









Still some work to be done on the canopy.



573 Club






Large staircases, a staple of recent Populous (nee HOK) projects, are all over the place.



One more time from the third base side.



Main concourse, looking south toward the area behind home plate.



Playing surface dirt out there? Maybe. (click to enlarge)






A mass of rebar and complicated cable runs ready for a pour.



Terrace Level






Larry DiVito, mowing






Dugout Dog



This is the Seventh Street circulation ramp. Note that the floor is covered with plywood to protect it during construction. Not all construction firms are as careful with this type of protection as Mortenson.



Sharing and Caring Hands, as viewed from the ballpark site about a block away. Note transaction in progress in the shadows.






This is a good overview of the spot where the Northstar (bottom) and LRT (top) will intersect.



A mural featuring the names of a bunch of Minnesota towns.






Future home of the Met Stadium flag pole









Metropolitan Club



Infield dirt used as accents



TC meets the Mayor (Photo by Jeff Ewer)



Stairs down to Seventh Street now have the start of railings


Glossary

BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis
 


(1993)
 


First Edition (1992)
 


Second Edition (2006)
 


(2008)
 

Selected Bibliography - Surveys
 


(1975)
 


Second Edition (1987)
 


Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title
(2000)
 


(2000, large coffee table)
 


Original edition (2000, round)
 


Revised edition (2006, round)
 


(2001, medium coffee table)
 


(2002, small coffee table)
 


(2003, medium coffee table)
 


(2004, very large coffee table)
 


(2006, very large coffee table)
 


Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)
 

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia
 


(1992)
 


Book and six ballpark miniatures
(2004)
 

Complete Bibliography

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