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Around the Horn #2: Saints in Lowertown

July 22, 2013 12:49 AM

Last Monday an errand took me to downtown St. Paul and I decided to stray a bit from the most efficient route home.

This was before the heat which would ultimately overtake the week had fully set in, and so I left my car parked somewhere in the middle of that crazy kiddywampus street grid (a spot that I'm quite sure I could never find again) and headed on foot toward the site of a new ballpark.

It felt like old times.

I was quickly transported back to when I was just getting to know the North Loop, and experimenting with the most efficient place to park and steal a few moments from a workday filled with other things to grab some quick photos and dream a little bit about baseball.

The walk was sublime. The afternoon sunshine cried out, "Day game!" The site did not disappoint. (I'll be doing this again.)

Having followed this project rather closely, I didn't encounter many surprises. I've actually driven right to the site on several occasions and nabbed some "before" photos of the aggressively dispiriting building which currently squats on the land (architectural style: blank industrial). But, as we all now know, driving and walking are two very different activities. It may as well be two worlds.

And the one surprise I did encounter was a true revelation. On paper, this site already looks pretty good. It's got "infrastructure" and "higher use" as its middle names. It clings to an underused edge of the city grid, and effectively extends downtown, filling in an unwelcome cut. That's all on paper.

But on foot, at least on this sunny and optimistic day at the very beginning of construction, the site was a revelation. The walk toward it is through demure warehouse canyons, down positively quaint quasi-urban streets, and into a mythical past where the smart money always put recreation within arms reach of where the work was happening.

Well, it's not entirely mythical because that's pretty much what happened with Target Field. And this site feels like a handsome kid brother to the Major League's location.

My hope is that the team has already made contact with the people who own and operate the adjacent Farmer's Market. As I walked through there, this felt like it really should be the plaza for the ballpark on gamedays whenever possible (Sundays could be a bit dicey).

Additionally, maybe it was just the spectacular weather, but I started to immediately feel like the Saints seriously need to schedule some day games. I know that night games are the standard, and the conventional wisdom says will be more profitable, but this neighborhood has genuine Wrigleyville-esque potentials which just need to be tapped.


The actual facility they are planning to build there is still sort of elusive. I've spoken with some people at the Saints to see if I can follow the design process more closely, but no dice. It's not that they're unwilling, but it is a considerably smaller operation than the one across the river, and they just don't have the resources to do the press that this facility deserves. (Hey, Mike Veeck! I'm available! Call me!)

Right now, we've pretty much got a couple of concept drawings, and those will have to do. They are certainly impressive.

Click to see the full-size image.

Click to see the full-size image.

It looks airy, and modern, and expandable. It looks considerably more comfortable than its predecessor, while still with the potential for the kind of fun they like to have over there. I'll be on the lookout for more images, and don't be surprised if I start doing construction updates.

In the meantime, forget all the wrangling about money. Who cares about that? Leave it to the politicians. They'll figure it out. (Were you surprised to learn that the site is contaminated? Me either.)

And the neighborhood opposition will dissipate. There will be a day when no one will be able to remember why anyone would have objected to this. It's just too perfect. (I understand there will even be a tailgating lot to the east! Imagine that!)

Just know that, when all is said and done, you're going to want to see a game at this ballpark -- probably more than one. And as city amenities go, it looks right now like this one's a winner.

Fiesta

I want to say thanks to Mike Menner (a.k.a. fiesta) for a wonderful celebration of the Great Game over the weekend. Mike's been hosting an annual baseball party for 23 years. It's a pretty big event, and it was enough to make me forget for a few hours the sorry state of the home town nine.

It's an all-day affair on one Saturday in the middle of July, though it starts a week before with homemade sausage-making. (This stuff was positively delicious.)

It also includes taking in a Twins game as a group. His family and friends, some of whom hail from Cleveland, filled the Overlook at Friday night's game and were thus happy/disappointed with the final score.

Click to enlarge.

And Mike's infectious optimism went with me to Target Field today, and made it possible to think about the rhythm of the game instead of obsessing about lackluster play in the field, on the mound, and in the batter's box. In his words, "The game has a rhythm of its own, performed by many players at many different points in time. We celebrate those rhythms, their makers, and the community of people who join in. Our rhythms come from watching, cheering, playing, cooking, eating, laughing, singing and more."

Well done, Mike, and thanks for including me and my family. (And if that was Noah on the big board today, we missed it.)

Endeavors

Some of you know that I'm writing a book. It's about baseball and should be done soon. It, along with other things, has taken me away from regular posting, for which I apologize.

But here comes the shameless plug: You may not know that I've also been writing a piece of musical theater. Titled The Second Sleigh, it will be premiering on August 1 at the Fringe Festival. I wrote all of the music and lyrics and co-wrote the dialogue. (Click the link above to, among other things, hear me singing samples of the songs.)

It's a Christmas show, for both kids and adults, and lots of fun. You can find out more and buy tickets by clicking here.

Basically, I've been living this show for the past six months -- and as a result will be looking to make up for some lost income as soon as it's over... Any ideas/opportunities out there? Mike Veeck?

Thanks for including BallparkMagic in your 2013 season. It's been suggested that I seek out guest posters, and I'm totally open to that. If you have an idea, send me a message and I'm sure we can work it out. I promise I won't leave you hanging for so long next time! ("Around the Horn #3: Football Cathedral" is already in the works!)

Comments


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Nice update! Would also be interested in hearing more about the book you are working on.

Posted on July 22, 2013 at 06:30 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 1

Considering the number of trips I make downtown along with my camera, I will be sure to stop and get plenty of photo coverage of the new football stadium.

I don't make as many trips over to St. Paul (I should, what a great area) but will do my best to capture the Saints new ballpark as well.

Posted on July 22, 2013 at 08:13 AM by jared Highlight this comment 2

The fielding team in that night shot has no shortstop. Big hole in the defense, there. ;-)

Posted on July 22, 2013 at 08:31 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 3

More day games would not have the same negative impact on the bottom line as would be the case with an MLB club. Television isn't a big player in Independent baseball. Downtown Saint Paul would make a great "Wrigleyville" atmosphere ... assuming people can find their way around those "kittywampus" streets.

Posted on July 22, 2013 at 10:30 AM by terry Highlight this comment 4

Somewhat off topic, I know, but here's a wild new dynamic target tracking camera from Japan. I can see Fox Sports toting it out for multiple sports in a few years as the next cool camera shot to show off. It actually could make for some real interesting replays. See link.

Posted on July 22, 2013 at 3:54 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 5

I can see that camera being awesome for some things but brutal for many others.

For instance, they mention baseball in the video and seeing the bat bend and such, which implies that they would potentially target the slo-mo and instant replay arenas. Watching that video of the spinning ping pong ball would make you dizzy. You would get similarly dizzy when applied to the baseball world as well if you locked into a certain focal length/zoom level on the ball. Not to mention you loose a lot of context of what is really happening to the ball when you only see the ball and everything else zipping by. If they have a way to unlock the focal lenth and allow the ball to stay within a frame instead of a center point with regard to tracking (which i would hope they do), then you could start with a wide angle on the ball as it is being pitched and being hit and then allow the tracking to take hold as the ball goes down the left field foul line (zooming in as the ball goes down the line) and thus prove that Mauer's ball in the Yankees Playoff series is indeed a fair ball.

There is much more to this but I have to run. Will try to add to it later.

Posted on July 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM by jared Highlight this comment 6

I plan on taking pics of US Bank Stadium construction as well. I can see Humpty Dumpty frommy office wwindow

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 06:51 AM by luke Highlight this comment 7

Well we can all complain about Joe Mauer's enormous contract and things, but at least he has been clean throughout his career and has consistently put up good numbers through injuries and all.

Quite the news out of Milwaukee with the whole Ryan Braun situation, but the saddest thing of all is that its not a surprise.

He cheated himself, he cheated his teammates, he cheated the fans, he cheated the Arizona Diamondbacks (fall 2011), and so on. Than to lie about it and get defensive to later admit you made a mistake after you were caught again? He threw the collection guy under the bus accusing him of tampering the sample.

You just have to laugh at these cheaters when they are caught and their numbers decline and their injuries increase while their careers are forever tainted.

Now the Brewers are faced with that 5 year $105 million contract through 2020...talk about destroying a franchise. Not looking good for the Brewers franchise anytime soon.

I would be embarrassed if I owned a Ryan Braun jersey/shirt and would dispose of it in a hurry.

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 11:04 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 8

" --- at least he has been clean throughout his career --- "

That is not known for certain.

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 11:32 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 9

Will we ever forget that mysterious phrase, "bilateral leg weakness"?

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 12:19 PM by Rick 10

Ahhh "bilateral leg weakness". Those words will go down in Twins infamy alongside the pitching record of Terry Felton, the whininess of Tommy Herr, the personalities of Kenny Rogers and John Smiley and the $5M spent on the right to negotiate with Tsuyioshi Nishioka.

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 12:31 PM by terry Highlight this comment 11

I was sorting through my kids' baseball card collection the other night and came across a Rondell White card. Not quite in the same league as those you mention, I know, but a dubious chapter nonetheless.

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 12:35 PM by Rick 12

Funny (Terry and Rick) you mention some players who had terrible stays w/ Twins. Once a year we get a group together and have a "Terrible Twins Tshirt Day" and show up representing some of the most forgettable Twins ever. We go buy identical Twins tshirts and have their names/numbers printed on back. This year's group we represented Brett Boone, Ruben Sierra, Ramon Ortiz, Nishioka, Mike Lamb, Adam Everett, (forgot first name) Monroe, Jason Marquis, Sidney Ponson and Ron Davis. (Un)fortunately there are plenty of names to choose from so our group can get bigger and bigger. We got a lot of head turns and photo requests at the game last Saturday

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 1:25 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 13

And how could I have mentioned the personalities of Rogers and Smiley without mentioning that of Mr. Congeniality, Mike Marshall?

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 1:57 PM by terry Highlight this comment 14

Rick, you misspelled RonDL's name.

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 3:02 PM by BR Highlight this comment 15

Thanks for this start on the Saints ballpark. Looking forward to tracking the progress and someday setting foot inside another Twin Cities gem.

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 3:24 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 16

And it begins...Mr. McGeasil Brewing to open directly across from the new Saints ballpark.

Heartland Restaurant and Farm Direct Market, which is also located in the building, will supply the taproom with food.

Sweasy and his two partners will be brewing what they call "nutritional beers" in addition to more traditional brews.

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 4:22 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 17

I had referenced this in a previous thread, but worth repeating on this one: linked is the somewhat insane proposal (championed by local art gallery owner Bill Hosko) to not completely demolish the Gillette building, but instead cut a huge notch out of its North side and build the stadium in that notch. The rest of the building would remain standing and house a variety of things, such as an ice rink, the relocated Twin Cities Model Railroad Museum, and most important to the proposal's backers, more parking. The lowest level of the retained structure (underneath the stadium) would be one big parking garage.

Before he shot this proposal down, Mayor Coleman had dismissed concerns about parking scarcity, citing studies showing that up to 4 times the necessary parking already exists in that area, even with the removal of the existing lot north of the Gillette building. And of course, following the "Target Field's Kid Brother" motif, the stadium will be near the Eastern terminus of the new Green Line LRT.

Obviously this proposal will not happen, but it's still entertaining to look at some of those ridiculous renderings.

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 5:10 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 18

I don't remember you posting previously Expectorate but that would have been one hell of a unique stadium. The rooftop stuff potentially could have been pretty cool. An indoor ice rink, a space for craftsman, a model train museum and a velodrome?

I understand that MPLS/STP is a biking mecca (which I think is really cool) and that Blaine has the outdoor velodrome but was the indoor one just a suggestion for something to fill the space or is the short track bike racing community really that large that a velodrome would have been/would be a viable option if rebuilt indoors?

I know they aren't going to actually do it but I also am curious because I don't know much about the local bike community. Well other than people like getting their "Lance Armstrong" on and my fiance hating the fact that she has to share the road with them (mostly that has to do with her anxiety and how she thinks she will run them over but not know it). :)

Posted on July 23, 2013 at 6:17 PM by jared Highlight this comment 19

Thanks for that link, Ex. Some of the individual components would be great. I did, though, find it funny that, of all the buildings to try to organize a "save" movement around, they'd pick one so patently hideous.

Posted on July 24, 2013 at 11:13 AM by BR Highlight this comment 20

Exactly - some of the rhetoric on the flyer that group distributed (I live in St. Paul) was pretty hilarious. Instead of "aggressively dispiriting" or "industrial," the Gillette building was touted as a "blank canvas" on which to apply any number of possibilities. Too funny.

Posted on July 24, 2013 at 11:37 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 21

Mauer and Morneau were clean their entire careers? I'd bet my entire last year's salary on that.

Posted on July 24, 2013 at 9:25 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 22

Maybe Morneau needs to get on the juice. I see he is ranked 27th in slugging percentage by 1st basemen. I don't think we could get a bag of balls for him now. Twink will just let em walk me thinks. Why tender him a 1yr deal at 12 mil? He would take it in a heartbeat.

Posted on July 25, 2013 at 09:19 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 23

I think Morneau was on the "juice." Just look at how "thin" his arms are now compared to a few years ago.

Posted on July 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 24

bilateral arm weakness

Posted on July 26, 2013 at 1:15 PM by trebor651 Highlight this comment 25

A while back someone here said they were interested in covering the vikings stadium development and was looking at a site to do that with. Could that person email me please?

Rick if you are not comfortable with this reques please delete the posting.

Posted on July 26, 2013 at 4:09 PM by moda Highlight this comment 26

Just out of curiosity...was today July 27 or November 27? God todays weather sucked A$*

Posted on July 27, 2013 at 10:30 PM by luke Highlight this comment 27

I have no idea, so I'm just asking.

How is youth/amateur baseball in this area? I was thinking with the updated baseball facilities....Target Field, new Saints stadium, new Vikings stadium, and new Siebert Field.

I'm hoping that there is a resurgence of youth baseball. With these new facilities kids should dream about playing in these venues.

Posted on July 27, 2013 at 10:36 PM by Brandon Highlight this comment 28

Brandon...your comment makes me sad for the following reason: you mentioned TF, new Saints, new Siebert...three baseball-specific ballparks. Built for baseball. Three great, new ballparks. Which you are correct, youth/amateur baseball programs will love them. Yet, we had to make baseball accommodations in a new football-specific stadium. I just can't see past baseball configurations in the new Vikings stadium, the third such stadium in which we have done that. It makes me sad.

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 09:30 AM by luke Highlight this comment 29

Met Stadium was designed specifically to lure Major League Baseball to the area. Football in that facility was an afterthought. The place was not designed to accommodate both sports. Since there has been only one stadium in operation that was intended for both the baseball and football, and one still on the drawing board that will accommodate both, you only need to be 2/3 as sad. Hope that helps.

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 30

Sad? I'm not sad that the new stadium will have a baseball configuration available.

I think it's stupid and ill-conceived and a needless compromise on the design of a billion-dollar sports facility.

But it's also pretty far down on the list of things that still bother me greatly about this project (none of which have to do with its cost or the fact that it's getting done).

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 11:51 AM by Rick 31

Moda,

I have no problem with that request.

Of course, I certainly will be covering construction of the new stadium. It will be a pretty significant revision to the skyline, and I find that very compelling.

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM by Rick 32

Winona, you make a good point. Actually the Met was one of the worst, if not the worst stadium in the NFL at that time: smallest seating cap, horrible configuration, etc. I failed to remember that.
I do remember that it was a Minor League ballpark for the Millers for five years before the Twins landed in '61.
So I guess 2/3 sad isn't as bad :)

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 2:13 PM by luke Highlight this comment 33

Not the worst. At Wrigley Field, part of the south end zone was in the first base dugout. So when the Bears played, there was a jagged, triangular chunk taken out of one corner of the end zone. A serious safety hazard. At least at The Met, the gridiron was complete and full-sized. Wrigley had a smaller capacity as well: 45,000 to The Met's 47,900.

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 7:14 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 34

Taking my 4 year old little lady to her first game and want to take the train. Where is the best station to park at - MOA, Vet's Hospital, or a random stop along 55? I always park in my secret spot for $3, but that will be too long of a walk for her. Thanks for any advice!

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 10:32 PM by ole Highlight this comment 35

And no, I will not be taking her to the Holiday store for hot dogs or any other food...

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 10:35 PM by ole Highlight this comment 36

ole,

Many people like the Fort Snelling lot. I actually live closest to a lot right at Lake Street, and that works well for us, but the trains tend to be pretty full by the time they get here.

Posted on July 28, 2013 at 11:02 PM by Rick 37

What about clear rum? Aren't you going to sneak any clear rum into the game in a water bottle?

Posted on July 29, 2013 at 03:26 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 38

"It really wasn't vodka sir, it was just plain water"
"You owe me seven bucks for booze, Turtle." From the movie DARRYL

Posted on July 29, 2013 at 07:38 AM by luke Highlight this comment 39

ole - I live in the Kasson area as well and usually will park at the Fort Snelling park and ride lot or the Bloomington 28th Avenue Park and Ride ramp. Just depends on the situation and if I am meeting anyone or not.

You will have a shorter walk to the train when you park at the 28th Avenue station compared to the Fort Snelling station but both are good options.

Posted on July 29, 2013 at 08:46 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 40

2014 All-Star Game logo to be unveiled tomorrow

Looking forward to it!

Posted on July 29, 2013 at 11:53 AM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 41

The only drawbacks to Fort Snelling are that the walk is a little longer and the trains are frequently full when they arrive. The walk is about a block for night and weekend games, but longer for weekday games. We've taken our 3 1/2 year old granddaughter from Fort Snelling with no problems.

Posted on July 29, 2013 at 12:29 PM by terry Highlight this comment 42

To the comment about Wrigley regarding Bears games there-that reminded me recently Northwestern played a home game at Wrigley and they deemed the configuration such a hazzard that both teams used the same endzone. I remember the old Memorial Stadium also had zero out of bounds room in the closed in portion of stadium endzone in the one corner. On a completely unrelated note (but since it was mentioned about Wrigley and football) an interesting bit of trivia: according to ESPN Sportcenter trivia of day a couple years back the answer to "Which stadium still standing has held the most NFL games?" -Wrigley Field. Was home of old Chicago Cardinals as well as Bears until 1972 when they moved to Soldier Field.

Posted on July 29, 2013 at 6:38 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 43

The Cardinals played a lot of games at Comisky Park as well.

Posted on July 29, 2013 at 7:34 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 44

Anyone know if the 2 PM Press conference will be carried on MLB TV? I presume it will be on FSN, but I can't get FSN

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 12:37 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 45

You get MLBTv, but not FSNN. Now that is a weird channel lineup. Glad I don't have your cable provider.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 06:52 AM by luke Highlight this comment 46

There was a change in the seating configuration at Wrigley Field - some additional field level seating - that necessitated the use of only one end zone in that Northwestern game a few years ago.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 07:12 AM by terry Highlight this comment 47

Luke - my cable lineup isn't wieird - I live in Colorado, so I can't get FSN.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 08:58 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 48

Egg. Face.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 10:07 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 49

Guess that explains it then...lol. unless of course, you had the top tier of DirecTv, then I think you'd get all the FSN affiliates.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 10:16 AM by luke Highlight this comment 50

Guess that explains it then...lol. unless of course, you had the top tier of DirecTv, then I think you'd get all the FSN affiliates.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 10:19 AM by luke Highlight this comment 51

Luke,

I get MLB.TV and I don't have any cable or satellite (thus, no FSN or any other regional networks). It's available through many devices, including my Roku boxes. Or I can just watch it on my phone. Or on my computer. Or my tablet. Or my friend's device. Anywhere, anytime.

MLB.TV is the future of baseball on TV -- provided they end the blackouts (which are mostly just an annoyance to the tech savvy).

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 10:38 AM by Rick 52

The 2pm unveiling will be streamed online at twinsbaseball.com

FS North may possibly stream it online as well.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 10:22 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 53

luke-
Getting FSN via a Sports Pack or top tier of your provider doesn't help as the non-local games are blacked out. That RSN trick is only good for college sports, and even then, not all of them.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 54

Watching the game from the Overlook section tonight. I have been there for BP and just looking around, but this will be my first game from that vantage point. Looking forward to being at Target Field on a beautiful night.

With every at bat potentially being his last as a Twin, wonder if Morneau will get a lot of cheers tonight.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 12:01 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 55

Any last minute predictions for the All-Star game logo?

I hope Minnie & Paul are on it, but I'm not holding my breath. I will say that if there is a Target "bullseye" on it, I might gag...

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 1:45 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 56

I found this link and thought of you Rick. More and more cities are opening up the streams and rivers that they long ago covered up. Click name for link.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 3:27 PM by Mort Highlight this comment 57

Concerning the All-Star game logo: The dark blue representation of the canopy is looking from the outside of the park looking in. The tan representation of the skyline is from the park looking out. (linky)

It makes my head hurt!

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 3:43 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 58

I don't like the ASG logo. Looks standardized to me. The colors are all wrong...seems misrepresentative of the Twins, Mpls and TF. JOGO.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 3:47 PM by luke Highlight this comment 59

I must say I am a little disappointed in the 2014 All-Star Game logo.

How does that represent Minnesota? If you are from outside of Minnesota or not familiar with Target Field, you do not know which stadium roof and/or skyline that is.

While it's still early and the logo will probably grow on me, I am a little disappointed after my initial impression.

We all know that the Target Field canopy is distinct but a majority of people outside of Twins Territory do not know that.

The 2014 All-Star Game logo is a hybrid of the 2007 MLB All Star Game logo (played in SF) and the Twins' 2010 Inaugural Season logo.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 4:04 PM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 60

I think we are all looking at the All Start logo from a very "Ballpark Magicentric" perspective. To those that are not familiar with the Target Field branding like we are, it is quite clean and crisp. It's actually kinda growing on me over the past few hours.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 4:15 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 61

I don't mind it. It's a logo that the majority of people who attend the festivities won't pay attention to.

I really like the tan color of the skyline, it matches the color of the limestone.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 4:20 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 62

If you are from outside of Minnesota or not familiar with Target Field, you do not know which stadium roof and/or skyline that is.

Don't you think the big "Twins" logo right above the words "All Star Game" is clue #1?

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 6:40 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 63

Considering the recent Twins logos (Metrodome and Inaugural TF), the ASG logo follows in line very well.

(image removed)

It may not be the New York skyline or the facade of OYS or NYS but being consistent with the images over time produces that recognizable skyline. And since the stadium is only a few years old, that will take more time. I for one have no problem with it.

People will know its a skyline and a canopy from a stadium and people generally wouldn't recognize it but would in theory assume that it is the MPLS skyline being that the ASG is in MPLS. If they don't its not like anyone cares.

Looking at past logos The mets had a skyline and a bridge. Do you know what bridge that is? Neither do I. New York has a lot of bridges. Does it matter? No. Arizona had mountains but which local range? Is it a specific mountain? Many don't have anything other than maybe the team's color scheme. It doesn't have to have something blatantly Minnesotan to tell people its here and even then, as Expectorate said, the Twins logo isn't enough?

I feel like people have seen so much great logo design and so much awesome simple classic design that they think it takes all this work and needs to have so much that they end up with super high, unrealistic expectations. Ask what they want and how it should be represented and they dont have any idea and or it turns into this:

(image removed)

Haha just kidding, but on a funny sidenote, it is interesting that a Google search for "Awful logos" turns up Bing's as one of the first few.

I mean one like this:
(image removed)

or this:

(image removed)

After all the majority of the designs we love are pretty simple (arguably underwhelming when first revealed) and mostly unchanged for decades or more. I think this ASG one is pretty good but it may grow on me to get an even better rating.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 7:12 PM by jared Highlight this comment 64

DreDogg, I thought the same thing about the tan of the skyline replicating the color of the limestone.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 7:29 PM by terry Highlight this comment 65

I really don't like the logo. No pizzaz. No idea why clouds are so prominent.

I saw a comment somewhere else that stated they should have used a variation of the Mnnie / Paul logo representing the AL and NL. That would have been much more iconic and unique.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 8:07 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 66

Anybody else think the 2-2 pitch to the leadoff batter in KC's 4 run inning was strike 3? Interesting to go back after a game and see the very subtle things that have such an impact on the outcome.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 8:42 PM by terry Highlight this comment 67

Not sure if anybody still has it, but in the season ticket renewal packet last fall had a All star logo that featured Minnie & Paul. While it was apparently just something thrown together, I was disappointed when today's logo wasn't a refined version of that logo. Also I'm curious how much Input MLB has in the logo.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 9:39 PM by PNB19 Highlight this comment 68

Expectorate - the "Twins" will not be on the official logo used in the game itself. That will have "MLB" in its place. Just look at the official sleeve patches on sale and you will see.

Like I said in my previous post, the logo is already growing on me. It definitely helps to incorporate the Twins' primary colors of red and navy blue. The tan is a nice touch as well. The more I see the new logo, the more I like it.

In all honesty, it's hard to complain as it could be much worse...such as the new "standardized" logos we see for the Super Bowl. Those are disappointing considering it's the biggest sports event in America. I could remember Super Bowls of the past based on the logo, now its a simple standardized logo that is nothing special or unique.

Posted on July 30, 2013 at 11:49 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 69

Mike-do you mean the actual letters MLB will appear in the place of Twins? I was gonna say, the MLB logo is already between 20 and 14.
I guess I never thought that the tan would be representative of the limestone...but I guess I can see that. I still don't think they quite matched the Twins colors.

Posted on July 31, 2013 at 06:45 AM by luke Highlight this comment 70

Terry (#67) - I thought that batter had pretty clearly swung at the pitch and was out. Was shocked to see him take 1st base on a walk and then have it lead to a big inning. That said, Pelfrey was all over the place and threw WAY too many pitches in every inning.

Big scoreboard featured several ads for all star gear on sale now at the Twins pro shops and stadium stores.

Posted on July 31, 2013 at 08:17 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 71

The logo's fine but not as good as the inaugural season logo, imo. The skyline doesn't have to be that generic, and the lack of detail doesn't allow them to capture even the canopy as well. I'd also prefer TC to Twins, but whatever.

Posted on July 31, 2013 at 09:07 AM by BR Highlight this comment 72

Any speculation on what the AL/NL uniforms will look like? I'm imagining AL navy blue with red letters/numbers, NL red with blue names/numbers. The "American" and "National" written on the front in 60s style script font (think cream alternates).

I'm really excited for this whole process to fall into place over the winter and next season. It'll all start with opening day and the opening of the interchange!

Posted on July 31, 2013 at 10:43 AM by Jp Highlight this comment 73

What do people think of the trade deadline? Hard to imagine anyone would offer much for Morneau; a batting average in the .260's and on the last day of July, a grand total of eight home runs. Who else do the Twins have who might draw legitimate interest from a contender?

Posted on July 31, 2013 at 11:57 AM by terry Highlight this comment 74

I heard Dunensing might bring some interest since he is a lefty. Teams would have to blow the twins away to deal Perk. Morneau still has $4.5 mil due him yet this year. I doubt the Twins will get much interest for him at that price. Maybe a bag of used balls or something. Offer him 2 years for $10 mil tops or let em walk. I think his best days are waaaaay behind him. That head injury going to cut his career short for sure. They would have loved to have tried to deal Willingham but can't trade a guy that's hurt. Plenty of seats available for those 16 home games in September!

Posted on July 31, 2013 at 3:16 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 75

Blockbuster Deal: Twins Trade Catcher to Dodgers!!!

No, not that one. Butera.

Not clear how many used baseballs they received in return.

Posted on July 31, 2013 at 3:23 PM by BR Highlight this comment 76

That's a mega trade alright BR. Gardy will be morning in the dugout losing one of his bench buddies. Will the Dodgers send some cash? $100?

Posted on July 31, 2013 at 4:38 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 77

The all star logo hasn't grown on me yet. Without the MLB logo, is tough to say what you're of all star game this is. I look to 2007 (SF); 2008 (STL); 2013 (NYM) as strong examples of demonstrating the sport (a baseball, a batt, etc.). I was one hoping for some character...I liked how in 2010 (LAA) and 2012 (KC) incorporated a symbol of their club (A and halo/Crown). I was one in the camp of Minnie and Paul. I think the limestone PMS Color Color is off and could have used some blocking to the color scheme and not a swift single color. I do have to say the logo on the right field wall does a better job representing the limestone color, as it is clear it is a different tone.

Overall to me, the logo seemed rushed as displayed with the 33 South 6th Tower extending beyond the patch design, not a fan of the use of space. At least it isn't as bad as 2011 (AZ)...

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 12:41 AM by tk Highlight this comment 78

BTW...the 2008 ASG was an AL city as 2006 and 07 were both NL (Pissburgh 2006 and San Fran 2007). 2008 was held at OYS...most noted for Josh Hamiltons kick ass first round of the HR Derby ------ STILL one of the best moments in recent ASG event history.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 06:30 AM by luke Highlight this comment 79

STL hosted the next year, 2009. Followed by Angels, Dbacks, Royals and Mets.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 06:31 AM by luke Highlight this comment 80

tk is right - the ASG logo isn't as bad as the Arizona 2011 version. But that's the only thing going for it. Very disappointed.

Both my daughter and I like the alternate logo better than the primary, not because the secondary is terrific, but because the primary is so bad. She took some classes in art at the U and rattled off a list of reasons the logo was bad as soon as she saw it.

I told her she was lucky - she will have gone to the two ASGs with the worst logos in the last twenty years ...

I guess I can understand why they didn't use Minnie/Paul - since it was used for a previous Minnesota ASG - but still disappointed. I just hope the rest of the designs, like the AL and NL team designs exhibit a bit more personality. I'll buy some ASG merchandise (will buy all the pins, just because we're going), but don't plan to buy more than one shirt and unlikely to buy any jerseys, so this logo definitely saved me some money ... :)

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 09:17 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 81

i will be 100% honest, have never even thought about the ASG logo until this year. and i probably wont think about it again after the ASG leaves Minnesota.

Is this just a filler topic to get us through the 3rd horrible season in a row...

Nice to see Pirate fans finally come out and have something cheer about for the first time in 20 years. Lets hope that doesnt happen to us (the 20 years of crappiness, not the great run, i would love the great run again)

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 11:23 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 82

Out of curiosity JFH, what things did you not like and what did your daughter mention she thought was wrong with the logo?

I tend to agree with certain design aspects as a fundamental basis but I also believe that what is "wrong" is in the eye of the beholder. This is not for any other reason than without some of the misses, we wouldn't have explored new design territories. So it's not necessarily what is "wrong" per se, it just doesn't really "work", unless it is just fundamentally wrong but for me that is still a gray area.

Although, it can be easy to just do something so fundamentally sound that it makes it boring or in some aspects not work. That's when you get the fan base saying "they paid all that money to design this simple POS?" Almost a lose-lose, gotta walk that fence though. Build a brand with fundamentally sound but simple design or try something new (which is usually a popular trend at the time) and have a greater risk of having it widely panned?

As we have seen with pretty much all aspects of the Twins organization, they tend to be pretty conservative which leads to more simple design mistakes.

For instance, I am not a fan of the use of five/six colors, especially with the brown having such a prominent role (even though the Twins have used a yello/brown/Gold variation through the years). Like in the Brown wording. To me, that should be an accent color similar to this:

(image disabled)

I understand using the lighter shade for the buildings to stand out against the sky/clouds background and it allows the TF silhouette to have more weight but something about tying it with the lettering and putting it against the red banner, my eye doesn't like. You could do away with the need for brown by removing the clouds, and utilizing white/light blue in a different arrangement. Or I would tend to use navy in a more prominent role and have red and light blue be secondary Then no white for a positive space and bring in gray if needed, mostly similar to the Inaugural season logos.

This plays in line with my propensity for the use of only teams colors in all aspects...for example, it drives me bonkers seeing bright pink or neon green Gophers apparel anywhere. I get it, you are trying to get women to buy apparel in colors they supposedly deem "cute" but that...just doesn't work in my head.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 11:27 AM by jared Highlight this comment 83

Regarding Wrigley Field as an NFL venue, the design standards and compromises of the period from 1921 to 1970 when the Bears played there were quite different from now. Back then most NFL teams played in baseball stadiums that required odd placements of the field and things like endzones running up against walls or dugouts.

The issue with the endzone for the Illinois-Northwestern game at Wrigley Field stemmed from the addition of seats behind home plate in the early 2000s. It ate up space that prevented the field from running parallel to the third base/left field line as was the case with the Bears. It had to run parallel to the first base/right field line instead. The endzone was entirely in play, but the endline came right up to the right field wall. The goal post couldn't be placed on the endline due to the space issue and had to be suspended by cables instead. When the teams complained about players potentially running into the ivy with no cushion or slow down room, the decision was made to play only towards the opposite endzone.

The Cardinals didn't make their home at Wrigley. They played mainly at Comiskey Park with the odd game at Soldier Field and Normal Park in the early days. Soldier Field too big for either team and in disrepair. The Bears were forced to leave Wrigley Field after 1970 due to the Cubs wanting to reduce the size of the temporary bleachers placed in right field in order to lessen damage to the grass. There may also have been safety issues. The Bears were set to go to Northwestern, but were ultimately blocked by residents concerned about noise and traffic although some preseason games were played there. Soldier Field was a distant second choice.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 11:28 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 84

Yikes, sorry about the giant image. Rick can you downscale that? I should have posted to my flickr and done it on my own. My bad.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 11:28 AM by jared Highlight this comment 85

Got it!

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 11:36 AM by Rick 86

I don't remember all she said, but from what I remember:

- the clouds were terrible and looked more like a bag of cotton balls but the white helps mask the boring skyline color.
- color of the skyline is too bland. When I mentioned it was supposed to represent the limestone she said "then there should be some variations in color". No problem with the same color being used as part of the text.
- the stadium profile looked like "a station wagon with a surf board on top" and looked squashed.
- she did catch that the shape paid tribute to Minnie/Paul (I hadn't noticed that before), but that "tower breaking the outline looked like a mistake and not a deliberate design choice". However, she thought the breakthrough made the logo seem larger.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 3:25 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 87

Nothing like getting swept at home against the Kansas City Royals!

Gotta give KC credit though, they are playing some good ball right now. First sweep in Minnesota since 1999.

33085 - Tuesday
32789 - Wednesday
35488 - Today

The front office is probably just sitting back looking at those attendance numbers and salivating. How does a team this bad get 35,000+ to a Thursday afternoon game?

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 3:31 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 88

It was nice outside and watching baseball is fun. That's why I was there.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 4:02 PM by Jp Highlight this comment 89

JFH:
I agree with all of those pts. I don't get why the skyline is so generic and flat. Why not use texture as they did with the inaugural season patch? And if a building is going to peak through the border, make it the Cappella Tower, with the halo that is echoed by TF's own canopy?

The more I look at it, the less I like it (and the more obviously slapped together it appears).

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 4:08 PM by BR Highlight this comment 90

Mike:
There were lots of KC fans milling about - I think they made the pilgrimage in hordes. Sure that boosted attendance. Plus it's gorgeous summer weather right now.

I tried to pick up a cheap single to watch some over lunch but the scalpers wouldn't go below $15 (too rich for my blood just to see 3 innings of the game).

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 4:12 PM by BR Highlight this comment 91

Jorge-thanks for clarifying the Wrigley Field football configurations-was interesting read. I was misinformed I guess-or rather misinterpreted what ESPN had stated. They had stated that the Cardinals had played games there- I made the assumption that meant they played ALL their games there when it was really just once in awhile. But still it is the stadium still standing which has held most NFL games! Alot of people assumed it was Lambeau forgetting they only played part of their schedule there until 1990's.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 4:15 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 92

Summer weekday afternoon games bring out the kids daycare/summer school groups, etc in huge numbers, as well as seniors groups. You look around the ballpark during those games and see many large groups of kids wearing their group issued colored t-shirt, especially in the cheaper seats.

A couple coworkers had kids attending the game today with various groups. Too bad the Twins didn't show up.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 4:50 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 93

HAHA, JFH maybe I shouldn't have asked, while i pretty much agree with her, now all I can see is the silhouette as a station wagon instead. :P

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 7:10 PM by jared Highlight this comment 94

Yup. Rumor has it that the Beach Boys will play Surfin Safari before the Home Run Derby ...

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 8:09 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 95

On the topic of MLB Network, I am a new DirecTV customer...with MLBN...so far, my favorite channel. It will REALLY help cure the winter blues. Well that and my free NFL Sunday Ticket for the 2013 season.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 8:51 PM by luke Highlight this comment 96

Oh and PS Rick, you owned www.ballparkgeek.com for this whole time? And who knows about that URL? I had no idea.

Posted on August 1, 2013 at 10:00 PM by jared Highlight this comment 97

"Yup. Rumor has it that the Beach Boys will play Surfin Safari before the Home Run Derby ... "

Only if Brian Wilson shows up.

Posted on August 2, 2013 at 12:04 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 98

You know things are bad when the top two "highlights" on twinsbaseball.com are: 1) "Babe wins Target Race" from 8/1, and 2) "Wanda wins Target Race" from 7/31. Sigh.

Posted on August 2, 2013 at 8:15 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 99

Its gonna be a lonely September in the stands at TF.

Posted on August 2, 2013 at 8:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 100

Even though they managed a win last night, it has been painful watching that pop gun batting order consistently produce no more than 2 or 3 runs a game.

Posted on August 3, 2013 at 06:45 AM by terry Highlight this comment 101

They "managed" a win against the worst team on the planet - and it only took them thirteen innings!.

Posted on August 3, 2013 at 08:46 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 102

Anthony Swarzak may be the the team's MVP this year. How often can they call him in in the 3d or 4th inning?

Posted on August 3, 2013 at 7:40 PM by terry Highlight this comment 103

Attended the Twins/Astros game on Friday night. They had the following info. on the right field scoreboard one time when Brandon Barnes of the Astros was batting:
In 2012 , after his call to the majors, posted the highest range factor per 9.0 innings among national league center fielders. What does that mean? Thanks

Posted on August 3, 2013 at 10:05 PM by gogo (aka gogotwins) Highlight this comment 104

On the scoreboard they also had the wrong guy batting at least twice, one out when there were two, and fantasy pitch counts.

Posted on August 3, 2013 at 11:52 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 105

gogo,

Range Factor is a defense metric. Background here.

Posted on August 3, 2013 at 11:59 PM by Rick 106

It also means they are struggling to find a positive note to show-something that occurs alot when a series between Twins-Astros takes place. Here is a stat they could have put up-one of there farm clubs is the Osceola Co. Astros-they named them that becasue that farm team is based in Kissime, Fl and otherwise their name woulda been The Kissimmee Astros.

Posted on August 4, 2013 at 2:39 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 107

Actually that isnt a stat of course but something they could hav eput on the scoreboard at least-ha ha

Posted on August 4, 2013 at 2:40 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 108

Anyone else see the Twins had 4,584 walk up ticket sales for Saturday's game vs Houston? Most in Target Field history and the game "featured" the teams with the worst and 3rd worst records in the AL.

Posted on August 5, 2013 at 2:10 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 109

I was at Saturday's game and it was PACKED. I overheard a guy talking to his teenage son standing by the left field foul pole say "They have more standing room in Boston!" (although I cannot see how that makes any sense). I wonder what brought out so many people to this game in particular. It didn't seem like there was an abundance of Astros fans there either.

Posted on August 5, 2013 at 2:20 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 110

Over 38k reported attendance for Sat game, over 103k for the weekend. If 4k is a record for walkup sales that means over 90% of the tickets were purchased in advance. What was it that drew the fans in? DQ Hat day on Saturday? Fireworks Friday? Hoping to see a Twins win since they were playing the Astros? So few home games in July?

Posted on August 5, 2013 at 2:41 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 111

One word: weather

Same with the Cleveland series following the All-Star break.

Any weekend games in July-August are always going to be prime attendance. Not to mention the fact that the Twins only have 3 weekend home series' in all of July and August. Only one more weekend series at home before the kids are back in school and that is Aug 16-18 vs the White Sox.

And the Twins again looked like a bunch of amateurs with their walk-off win celebration on Friday night...talking to you Trevor Plouffe. You just beat the Houston Astros for gods sake. If you would show that much energy and emotion out on the field than maybe the Twins would win more than 72 games. What an embarrassment that celebration was on Friday night considering the circumstances. Even DSP acknowledged on his twitter that it's a disturbing trend in MLB.

Posted on August 5, 2013 at 3:14 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 112

Maybe the quote above was hyperbole, but... I was just at Fenway (and have gone to many games there). TF absolutely has more standing room areas and space. And TF's standing room locations don't have nearly as many obstructions.

Posted on August 5, 2013 at 4:01 PM by BR Highlight this comment 113

Yeah, I didn't really understand the Boston quote either, but I think what he was getting at is that there was a lot of people (himself included) that didn't have seats for their cheeks to even ATTEMPT to sneak a sit in with a standing room only ticket. Definitely a full house.

Posted on August 5, 2013 at 4:13 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 114

Gotta love how the FS North people and Twins radio guys were talking about how it was nice to see the Twins turn the corner this weekend with the sweep of the Astros and drawing 100,000+ over the three games. Talking about how Morneau apparently regained his power and all that...Until you play some real competition and get beat up yet again.

Sad thing is, they could have easily been swept by Houston at home. They only outscored the Astros 13-9 in the series. Any other team would have taken 2 of 3 or swept the Twins in that series. There is a reason the Astros are 37-74.

But the good news is that the 2014 All-Star game logo has now been unveiled and we can get our merchandise exclusively at the Majestic Clubhouse Store and Twins Pro Shops as well as at Twinsbaseball .com

Posted on August 6, 2013 at 07:49 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 115

In more good news, Jamie Carroll has a 0.00 ERA so far this season.

Posted on August 6, 2013 at 08:20 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 116

I say lets put Carroll in the rotation. Also lets send both Gardy and Larry boy packing!!!! A fresh start with a new skipper and groundskeeper would put some excitement back in the park after a 100 loss season! FCOL!

Posted on August 6, 2013 at 09:27 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 117

Query: Is the Target Field groundskeeper responsible for losses that occur on the road or just those that occur at home?

Posted on August 6, 2013 at 09:35 AM by terry Highlight this comment 118

There was a quiet article in the Strib linked to this nj.com article about the Wilfs 21 years-in-the-running lawsuit in Jersey. I am not normally a Zygi basher but there is definitely some disconcerting things that went on here.

Posted on August 6, 2013 at 09:39 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 119

Other than as a bowling/fishing buddy for gardy I wonder exactly what pitching coach Rick Anderson does with his day? It certainly doesnt appear to be helping the starting pitchers. We once again have one of the worst starting ERA's in baseball. In the last 2 games the only pitchers who were able to get anyone out were a 39 year old utility infielder and a rookie who has never worked w/ Anderson. RA Dickey wins the CY Young a year after he flounders w/ Twins? Jason Marquis has success w/ Padres after being declared washed up? Liriano? I mean what is it that other pitching coaches are getting out of starting pitchers that ANderson cant seem to teach? I cannot think of a single starting pitcher going back since Santana who has had any meaningful long term success under Anderson's tenure. That isnt to say there isnt any-I just cant think of one. Maybe Sam Deduno-but again I am saying long term-

Posted on August 7, 2013 at 2:38 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 120

Not to defend Anderson, but your examples are stretching things quite a bit, Uffda. Dickey was 11-9 and 8-13 in his first two seasons with the Mets before catching lightning in a bottle, and now struggles again this year. He didn't do anything with the Rangers or Mariners before coming here either, and was used largely in relief with the Twins.

Marquis was 6-7, 4.04 with SD last year and 9-5, 4.07 this year. He seemed to struggle with his off the field family situation last year and never really showed anything.

Liriano? The jury is still out. He is having a lights out kind of year but time will tell whether the NL adjusts to him or he continues to adjust. His 2010 season with the Twins was not horrible, at 14-10, 3.62 (an ERA that is better than Verlander's current 3.74).

You didn't mention Lohse, but he floundered around for several years after leaving, has had some good years and some middle of the road. Maybe it was coaching changes, maybe it was that he matured and learned to pitch.

Pitching is a fickle thing and your 16-5 guy from one season can easily turn into your 9-14 guy the next. The Detroit pitching coach looks like a genius right now and may or may not have done anything to develop the guys making him look so good.

Posted on August 7, 2013 at 3:39 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 121

Good points Stevie B- I guess I just had to vent some frustration is all. Hopefully Deduno will continue to spare the bullpen and Gibson will learn some things for next year.

Posted on August 7, 2013 at 5:51 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 122

Back to USBank Stadium for one second: the videoboards, 10000 sq ft each. We have mentioned that they will be small in comparison to those at facilities like Jerry Jones Temple of Ecumenical Absolution.
So, will they be about the size of the boards at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indy...or maybe the size of the one at TF?? By comparison, how big (or small) will they actually be?

Posted on August 7, 2013 at 10:16 PM by luke Highlight this comment 123

Does it matter?

Posted on August 8, 2013 at 03:34 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 124

Well...sort of...I don't want to be sitting up in Section 628 of USBS last row, squinting at the video board to see an awesome instant replay, like I had to at the Humpty Dump. If I am in the last row, Section 303 at TF, I don't have to squint to see instant replays (also helps they have an axillary board now).

Give Jerry Jones this: his Jerry Tron idea has certainly caught on. There are basketball and hockey arenas duplicating the same concept (albeit a smaller scale).

Posted on August 8, 2013 at 06:45 AM by luke Highlight this comment 125

The television on my wall duplicates the same concept (albeit on a smaller scale).

Posted on August 8, 2013 at 07:54 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 126

Luke, that is a simple math problem. But first, are you sure its 10,000 sq ft for each video board. That's pretty big but we will roll with it.

Take the square root of 10,000 (notice it says square feet in the units, so you do the opposite function) and you get 100x100 if its a square. It won't be, especially if they are trying to roll with a 16:9 frame, which most places are striving for these days but that is besides the point.

Then compare that to the large TF scoreboard dimensions of 57'x101' and you get your answer. The US Bank ones will be much larger.

However, I seem to vaguely remember hearing something along the lines that the USBS ones would be on the order of 50'x120'-ish. Which puts them at 6000 sqft and not 10,000 per. Either way, they would roughly as big, if not a bit bigger and your eyes should be just fine seeing the replay in your STH seats in the last upper deck row.

Now whether your eyes can resolve the data at the resolution presented to you at that distance or whether your distance to video board to resolution at USBS is greater than that of your TV at home, is another story.

Posted on August 8, 2013 at 08:17 AM by jared Highlight this comment 127

Uh oh, is Dayton going to use the Wilfs legal issues to derail the stadium? Combine that with the vast shortfall of the e-pulltabs and the airport gambling and the gov could try to use this to force a complete do over. Clicky

Will the Wilfs have the cash available after any fines/settlements are made in the court case? Will MN see them as a reliable business partner that is capable of holding up their end of the deal on a stadium construction? Will the NFL force the Wilfs into a sale of the team? This whole thing is really getting muddy.

Posted on August 8, 2013 at 3:44 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 128

Yep...fact sheet about the stadium video boards indeed quotes 120x50.
Us Bank Stadium of course is not official, but Charley Walters insists that IS Bank is the front runner for naming rights. Not sure why they are going after a non-MN based Company for naming rights.

Posted on August 8, 2013 at 5:33 PM by luke Highlight this comment 129

If Charley Walters told me it was raining outside, I’d go to the window and check. His “people in the know” usually aren’t. How does this guy keep his job?
By the way, Metrodome reply boards measure a pathetic 34’ X 20’. Boards in the new stadium will be almost nine times as large as those in the Metrodome. They’ll be bigger than those at Target Field (57’ X 101’ – 5757 sq. ft. - thanks Jared) and TCF Bank Stadium (48’ X 108’ – 5184 sq. ft). You won’t need your binoculars to see the reply boards, Luke, but you might need them to see the field from you last-row perch.

Posted on August 8, 2013 at 6:24 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 130

Or, I can just watch the games on NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV...lol.
I agree, Walters' columns are...well, let's put it this way, there are times when he mentions things in his column that I had heard from other sources DAYS before. I still read...but I've somewhat lost interest in his column.

Posted on August 8, 2013 at 8:42 PM by luke Highlight this comment 131

"Not sure why they are going after a non-MN based company for naming rights."

Uh, both US Bank and its parent company are both based in downtown Minneapolis.

Posted on August 10, 2013 at 10:48 AM by Duffman Highlight this comment 132

Duff, yeah...I just checked that. I didn't know US Bank was based here. I remember the tower on 5th St and 2nd Ave when it opened. I believe it opened as First Bank Tower. I remember when US Bank had merged with First Bank back in probably the mid-90s.

I just assumed that when an outside bank took over shop, the HQ was wherever US Bank was (i.e. Northwest Airlines and Delta. Northwest Airlines was HQ'd here, but when the merger happened, HQ is now considered in Atlanta, where Delta has always been). Seems to me, after some research, that US Bank moved it's HQ here after the merger.

Having said that, IF in fact US Bank does get the naming-rights deal, does that create a conflict of interest with TCF Bank having TCFBS just across the river??

Speaking of naming rights deals: it appears the Jerry Jones Palace now has a sponsor: AT&T. It only took them, what, four years to find a naming sponsor??

Posted on August 10, 2013 at 1:52 PM by luke Highlight this comment 133

Through 6 innings today, the Twins are 1 for 7 with runners in scoring position. That's 2 for 25 the last two days. That's a .040 batting average for those of you scoring at home.

Posted on August 10, 2013 at 5:25 PM by terry Highlight this comment 134

CORRECTION: .080. Now you know why I didn't go into engineering.

Posted on August 10, 2013 at 6:29 PM by terry Highlight this comment 135

The only conflict I could see is the Vikings not being able to refer to the new stadium by name during the games at TCF, if it were to go to US Bank. I wouldn't be surprised if Delta, 3M or again Target, jumped in for the rights. Delta would depend on if they are holding out for a new Falcons stadium or not.

Posted on August 11, 2013 at 2:22 PM by Duffman Highlight this comment 136

I have long thought 3M would be a good naming sponsor.
Of course, I think it all narrows down to how much annually the Vikings will require for naming rights. I believe the recent AT&T deal in Dallas will be raking in some $14-15 million annually for the Cowboys. Wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings ask for at least that.

Target I suppose could. They wouldn't be the first to have their name on three pro facilities, AT&T now does: ATT Park in San Fran, ATT Center in San Antonio and now ATT Stadium in Dallas. Of course, I do believe Target would be the first to have its name on three in the same market.

Posted on August 11, 2013 at 2:32 PM by luke Highlight this comment 137

3M Field does have a nice ring to it. Now if only Dayton stopped pandering to save face in reguards to the civil suit against the Wilfs

Posted on August 11, 2013 at 9:11 PM by gus munger Highlight this comment 138

Nice weekend by the Twins in Chicago. Wonder if the Twins have ever had a 4 game series where every run they scored was via homerun. The ball was flying out of there all weekend.

Posted on August 12, 2013 at 07:48 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 139

The HR's were good to see, but how many lead off doubles got wasted? 3 for 37 with runners in scoring position - YIKES!

Posted on August 12, 2013 at 11:03 AM by terry Highlight this comment 140

The Cowboys could have had a naming rights sponsor for their stadium sooner, but had a certain price in mind and weren't willing to sacrifice on that front just to make a deal.

Posted on August 12, 2013 at 1:25 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 141

Just got an email telling me to watch for STH renewal materials. States that my Skyline View seats won't go up next year - third year at same prices. Not sure if that applies to all areas of the stadium, however.

Posted on August 12, 2013 at 3:19 PM by ClarkAddison Highlight this comment 142

This Albers kid is fun to watch. Might have to start counting games on the schedule to see when he'll pitch again.

Posted on August 12, 2013 at 9:41 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 143

Season ticket prices staying the same for 2014.

Posted on August 13, 2013 at 12:29 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 144

Twins now at five games in a row with all runs scoring via the homer.

Wasn't like they didn't have opportunities:
Bases loaded, 1 out in 4th. Strike out, ground out.
1st/2nd, 1 out in 6th. Strike out, fly out.
1st/2nd, 2 out in 8th. Strike out.

If Albers keeps pitching like this somebody will have to come up with a nickname for him (and his growing fan club). The AA Train? Probably doesn't work since your fastball needs to top 90 to have "Train" as part of your nickname...

Posted on August 13, 2013 at 07:26 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 145

How about "anomaly"?

Posted on August 13, 2013 at 08:04 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 146

3 for 43 with RISP the last five games. But it's not just the lack of hits, it's the lack of productive outs as Stevie B's post #145 points out. Too many strikeouts with a man at 3d and one out.

Posted on August 13, 2013 at 09:20 AM by terry Highlight this comment 147

"From Elias: With Josh Willingham's home run tonight, the Twins have scored their last 23 runs on home runs, the longest such streak in major league history." Wow, not exactly the '27 Yankees, but quite a record. Or, if you're a glass is half empty person, a record streak of ineptitude with runners on base.

Last game for me tomorrow - got in 7 this year.

Posted on August 13, 2013 at 8:55 PM by ole Highlight this comment 148

Hey...longest such streak in MLB history, we'll take it.

Posted on August 13, 2013 at 9:02 PM by luke Highlight this comment 149

Plus another leadoff double wasted. And another failure to score a runner at 3rd with only 1 out.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 08:07 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 150

This just in - Twins get a productive out in the 1st (Sac fly by Willingham) and a clutch 2 out hit by Arcia to score another run. They CAN do it.

Have fun at the ballpark today ole. What a great day for it.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 12:30 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 151

I'm out here (sec 131, row 5) with my boys -- taking a spontaneous day away from programmed summer activities. (3 tix on SH, $45 -- Love that they now show prices up front with all fees included.)

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 12:43 PM by Rick 152

I'm stuck in the office; would love to be at the ballyard right now. Just saw that they had runners on 1st & 3d with nobody out in the 5th and managed to ... are you ready for this ... strand them both. Even hitting into a double play scores a run in that situation.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 1:54 PM by terry Highlight this comment 153

I'm jealous too terry. Twins busting it open in the 6th with a bases loaded single. And Mauer is sitting on a 4-4 day (so far).

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 2:21 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 154

Wow. Bullpen (Fien) let that unravel in a hurry. Better get out of this inning still tied.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 3:03 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 155

Well, an afternoon at the ballpark is always a great...

Aw, screw it. That just sucked.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 4:46 PM by Rick 156

Rick- I wish I would have known you were going to be at the game today ahead of time-I would have come over to your section to meet you and say hello if you would'nt have minded. Target Field and Met Stadium sure do beat being inside at the Dome. Thank goodness we now can enjoy baseball outdoors where it belongs.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 5:28 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 157

Tom,

It was very much a spontaneous decision when I woke up this morning. Another time!

(Definitely glad We went. Just frustrated by the outcome...)

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 5:57 PM by Rick 158

When they stranded a runner at 3d with nobody out in the 5th inning, I had the disquieting premonition that they were going to lose by one run. When they went into the 8th with a four run lead, I thought how silly my "premonition" had been. So much for that.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 6:20 PM by terry Highlight this comment 159

Does anybody think the vikings stadium deal will fall apart?

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 8:14 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 160

I think this most recent round of haggling will just yield some tighter language and won't necessarily derail the thing completely. Though I suppose it could, depending on how deep the auditors dig and what they find. (That judge is also certainly a wild card.)

I do wonder whether Dayton is having second thoughts about the state's piece given how rickety it seems. That could kill it.

I also wonder what the market for those bonds will be like, given their status as less secure than such offerings typically are. That could kill it.

I also wonder what having a new mayor in Minneapolis might mean. That could kill it.

I also wonder whether the Wilfs will face pressure to sell the team. That could kill it.

Right now, however, most of the Wilfs' "contribution" is actually NFL money, so the finances from that side aren't really an issue unless a new owner is in the mix.

And these things tend to run on inertia. With this much time and money already invested, it's hard to imagine the whole thing falling apart -- unless something seriously unexpected happens.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 10:09 PM by Rick 161

Good points Rick. There has just been too much time and money invested to kill the thing now. Good grief, the wrecking ball is probably getting oiled right now getting ready for action (that's what she said).

And why would a new mayor risk killing the deal? It happened under Rybaks watch. Same thing if we were getting a new gov...Dayton already signed the bill, if we had a new gov, he/she really can't do anything about that, can they? Dayton already signed.

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 10:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 162

Anything done can be undone. That's how legislative bodies often work.

And if forces start to line up against something, even something this big, and even if they aren't necessarily working together or bothered about the same exact issues, stuff can happen.

It wouldn't be the first time. In fact, the Metrodome emerged from the ashes of a much more ambitious project which was to have been built on the other side of downtown where Target Center and the A ramp stand now. Most people saw that thing as an inevitability for many years and a lot of time and money had been spent on it before it crumbled (the parallel isn't perfect, but it's still a cautionary tale).

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 10:23 PM by Rick 163

The calls for "due diligence" and the like are a riot. This suit had been ongoing for about twenty years. The Star Tribune reported on it in 2011, before the stadium was even approved. I found documents related to numerous filings in the suit on justia.com in about half a minute just now, something anyone could have done at any time over the past few years. The idea that no one at any level of Minnesota government had a clue about what was going on or how serious it could get just blows my mind. Why wasn't this done long ago?

Consequently, I see Dayton's comments in recent days as having much more to do with him covering his rear and deflecting continued embarrassment over the manner in which the e-tabs have completely bombed (a failure that should have been expected) than any sincere action on the public's behalf. For what it's worth, the Wilfs will very likely appeal the court's decision and drag things out longer on that front. More than the $50,000,000 award to the opposition, I can't see them sitting down for the comments the judge made given the harm it inflicts on their reputation.

I don't see this matter preventing the stadium from getting built. In the end, Dayton and others in government know it has to happen one way or the other. To derail it now would prove highly chaotic, problematic, and expensive. However, if the Dorsey & Whitney inquiry takes long enough that it prevents the final paperwork from being signed, and thus the bonds from going on sale as scheduled, it could potentially delay the stadium's opening past the start of the 2016 season.

Posted on August 15, 2013 at 10:32 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 164

Expanded video replay for MLB next year. Let's hope it doesn't turn into the carnival side show it has become in the NFL. Close call goes against the home team; coach puts his hand on his trusty red bean bag (no double entendres now); the well lubricated crowd screams and howls for the coach to throw the thing; people watching at home have already seen the replay and know the call was correct, but goaded on by the frenzied crowd the coach throws the bean bag; Fox goes to a commercial and comes back a couple minutes later to see the referee with his head still under the hood, examining as carefully as if he were performing open heart surgery; if the ref takes much longer Fox will simply run some more commercials; but then he emerges and walks to center stage ... I mean the center of the field ... where he intones with a solemnity usually associated with a Pontifical High Mass ... or the announcement of draft selections ... that upon further review the play stands as called; the crowd in the stands goes wild, it is the greatest robbery since the Brink's job! Please Alvin Selig, at least don't use red bean bags.

Posted on August 15, 2013 at 2:02 PM by terry Highlight this comment 165

Well, more is better, but this solution is kludgy and cumbersome and not really what is needed. (Managers get one challenge in the first six innings, two thereafter. Win the challenge, keep it. Reviews take place in NY.)

Managers have to weigh the risk, which they shouldn't have to do. There should be an ump in the booth reviewing everything as the game is going on. If he sees something, it gets switched immediately.

There should need to be no manager involvement at all.

Posted on August 15, 2013 at 2:39 PM by Rick 166

How would of a play like Mauers hit down the line vs the yankees in the playoffs been overturned? just gets a single and everyone moves one base?

Posted on August 15, 2013 at 3:35 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 167

No matter what, umpires are going to have to make such decisions about where to place runners. I'm sure there will be guidelines put in place, but it will come down to umpire judgement. (Managers will certainly argue about that next.)

Your suggestion, though not ideal, would certainly have been better for the game (not just the Twins) than what actually transpired...

Posted on August 15, 2013 at 3:37 PM by Rick 168

Ugh. This replay system will make long, grueling games longer. And what's to stop a manager from issuing a challenge just to get a guy in the bullpen warmed up?

Posted on August 15, 2013 at 9:02 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 169

Per Sir Sid today, the Twins will open the 2014 season at home against the Chicago White Sox on April 1.

Interleague --
Home: Milwaukee, Arizona, LA Dodgers
Road: Milwaukee, San Francisco, Colorado, San Diego

Not sure why the Twins always get the shaft on the scheduling, but hopefully it will be nothing like this year. It could be 70 degrees and sunny just as much as it could be 32 degrees and snowing on April 1.

Posted on August 16, 2013 at 11:33 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 170

Hopefully, whatever stud #1 pitcher we have next year likes to pitch in cold weather!

(Sarcasm)

Posted on August 16, 2013 at 12:35 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 171

The shaft? We wanted an outdoor ballpark, we got one. NO OTHER COLD WEATHER CITY in the league whines and bitches about scheduling. Chicagos live with it. Detroit lives with it. New Yorks live with it. Boston, Cleveland. I don't consider it the shaft at all, I call it "welcome to the real baseball world."

Posted on August 16, 2013 at 7:51 PM by luke Highlight this comment 172

Where in the heck can I find what the menus are at Hrbek's and Town Ball Tavern? The Twins website is completely worthless

Posted on August 16, 2013 at 8:59 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 173

"We wanted an outdoor ballpark --- "

Not entirely certain who "we" are but it is clear that the Twins preferred some sort of roof.

Posted on August 16, 2013 at 11:31 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 174

The "we" being the majority congregation on BPM who did not want to spend another 30 years under any semblance of a roof. I was a late convert to The Cause. BUT I am glad they didn't get a roof. I never got to experience outdoor baseball at The Met...rain delays and what have you.

There may have been some here who might have wanted a roof, but deep down I think MOST would have preferred to go "roofless". That was the "we" I spoke of.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 06:01 AM by luke Highlight this comment 175

Furthermore, I also believe the Twinkies organization themselves would have preferred an outdoor park.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 06:03 AM by luke Highlight this comment 176

I love when the Rockies play the Twins ... win-win for me!

I'm more interested in the schedule around the All Star break - I hope the Twins are home just before or just after the break so I can save a trip.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 07:21 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 177

"Furthermore, I also believe the Twinkies organization themselves would have preferred an outdoor park."

Well --- you're dead wrong on that score. The Twins only "preferrd" an outdoor park when it became clear that was what they would have to settle for.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 10:42 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 178

From the official Twins site:

Why is a retractable roof important to the out-of-state and Greater Minnesota fans?

A retractable roof is actually important to all Minnesota Twins fans. Today's generation of fans has never experienced a rainout, and it has become accustomed to the certainty of watching a ballgame on the date it purchased tickets for. This has become particularly important to fans traveling long distances from Greater Minnesota and from outside the state.

Attracting fans from outside our state borders is a significant economic generator for our region. Furthermore, these fans and Greater Minnesota fans often attend more than one game to watch a weekend series, and spend money not only on game tickets and concessions, but also in retail establishments, hotels, restaurants and local tourist attractions. A retractable-roofed facility helps expand the market and improves Major League Baseball as a major attraction for the entire Upper Midwest.

Four other ballparks with retractable roofs have been built in locations that have significant weather related concerns: Seattle for the rain, Houston for the heat and humidity, Phoenix for the heat, and neighboring Milwaukee for the cold and rain. All of these franchises have been able to address their weather concerns and expand their markets with a retractable roof. The potential for inclement weather during half of the regular season (April, May and September) and the post-season in October makes a retractable roof a common sense choice for the Twin Cities market.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 11:14 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 179

jfh - the Twins will be on the road the week leading up to the All-Star break so they can get Target Field ready as well as host numerous events, including the futures game the Sunday before the All-Star Game. They will then be playing at home coming out of the all-star break most likely.

luke - I know its the "real baseball world" playing outdoors but why do the Twins always tend to get so many April and May home games? I know MLB cannot please all 30 clubs with the scheduling, but if a team opens at home one year, can't they open on the road the next year unless they have a tradition such as Cincinnati.

They could have easily swapped both the Miami and LA Angels series this year and played in Miami and LA in April and than play the Marlins and Angels in Minneapolis in June.

And let's face it, teams do not like April and May home games because the attendance is terrible with the exception of the home opener/Opening Day.

Ben hit the nail on the head in that the Twins preferred a retractable roof all along until they realized they would not get the financial support due to the cost of a roof. Than once the Twins realized they would be going the cheaper route with an open-air design, all of a sudden outdoor baseball was the greatest thing ever.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 1:15 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 180

Mike- you do raise a good point. I do think the Twins DEFINITELY got the shaft in July...9 home games ( I was lucky to be at one of the nine...lol)? I wonder if MLB gives us so many early games in preparation for possible postponements, which can be made up in our "better" months?

Speaking of that, when are the make up games for those games we lost in April due to "Spring"?

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 1:40 PM by luke Highlight this comment 181

The scheduling quandary is legendary, but there are much better ways to do April and September than they currently do.

There are easily 15 ballparks that are safe for early- and late-season games weather-wise (they either have roofs or are in warm climates). For pure practicality (setting aside profitability for a moment), these locations should see more games during the risky times.

And there's no harm in scheduling a single series to open a season in a colder climate at least every other year. Basically, every team should have the opportunity to open at home at least that often (and the Cincinnati tradition is expendable if necessary, in my opinion).

But clustering those early/late games in certain stadiums does condemn teams to lower revenues because of general attendance patterns. Offsetting this would certainly be possible if it were made a priority (by rebalancing weekend games in the warm months). But the net result might actually be pressure to create climate-controlled environments whenever a new stadium is contemplated. This could easily be the next trend as stadiums come up for replacement/upgrade in the next decade. (Will Detroit finally realize its roof-readiness?)

"...once the Twins realized they would be going the cheaper route with an open-air design, all of a sudden outdoor baseball was the greatest thing ever."

This is a very accurate characterization of the Twins' position. But it should be noted that they never proposed a climate-controlled facility. April games on rainy/snowy days would have been dry but still cold. Is that better? It's a personal preference, I think. My preference would be to postpone and play when the weather is nicer. But that's just me.

The potential yet to be realized is for stadiums with climate control available when necessary, but non-intrusive when not (TF's french fry lights are actually an innovation which leans that direction). I've seen roof designs that would accomplish this, but nothing like that has been built yet. (Miami is only the most recent case of a roof which dominates even when it's open. Milwaukee is probably the worst offender, and Seattle the least.)

Yet-to-be-addressed, however, in the world of all-climate-controlled stadiums is how the mere option of closing a roof changes how the game is played. The rules would have to be changed, and the open/closed decision given to the umpires (rather than the home team) in order to prevent shenanigans, which are all too common these days (Houston being the most egregious offender in this regard).

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 2:12 PM by Rick 182

"Than once the Twins realized they would be going the cheaper route with an open-air design, all of a sudden outdoor baseball was the greatest thing ever."

And "fans" like Luke were left to regurgitate what they were fed.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 2:56 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 183

Yes, well, propaganda exists because it works, right?

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 3:07 PM by Rick 184

Indeed. Although some people, or classes of people, are much more likely to swallow it than others.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 3:32 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 185

Tis where the saying "Drink the Kool-Aid" came from...lol. Actually, THAT came from what happened at Jonestown, but it's the same concept.

Came across an interesting three-minute interview with Clyde Doepner, Twins curator, from WCCO-TV. Clicky. Interesting look into the job of the keeper of everything Twins.

Posted on August 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM by luke Highlight this comment 186

Do opponents have the Twins right where they want them when the Twins get a lead off double? Just askin'.

Posted on August 18, 2013 at 3:48 PM by terry Highlight this comment 187

No other cold weather city bitches about scheduling? Snicker. I take it Luke hasn't talked to many Chicago or Cleveland fans.

Posted on August 19, 2013 at 10:52 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 188

0 for 10 in RISP situations today after 2 for 18 yesterday and 3 for 37 last week in Chicago. And the band plays on.

Posted on August 19, 2013 at 4:11 PM by terry Highlight this comment 189

Did we get 16 home games in April and September next year also? And one weekend series at home? LOL!

Posted on August 19, 2013 at 4:32 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 190

Boy, this team stinks (insert garbage burner joke here).

Posted on August 19, 2013 at 4:35 PM by Rick 191

(And by "stinks" I mean they're bad -- really bad -- but without even having the courtesy to be so bad that it's entertaining.)

Posted on August 19, 2013 at 4:40 PM by Rick 192

It shouldn't be surprising I guess that they have such a horrendous batting avg with men in scoring position. Most of the lineup has overall batting averages in the .220 range. It's pretty easy for a pitcher to pitch around the two or three hitters in any night's lineup who can hit and then get out of the inning by going after the six or seven guys hitting.210-.220. If .200 is known as "The Mendoza Line", how long will it be before .100 becomes known as "The Twins in Scoring Position Line"?

Posted on August 19, 2013 at 5:47 PM by terry Highlight this comment 193

Today's crowd announced at 31,000. That should tell you all you need to know about how the Twins report "attendance".

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 01:28 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 194

Ben - reported game attendance is simply tickets sold and is used for revenue sharing. It does not measure turnstile count. AFAIK, no club publically reports actual attendance.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 07:22 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 195

Why not call it what it is? "Attendance" is misleading.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 11:10 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 196

Ben-
Because there are people who don't know any better. Same reason stats get juked in all sorts of ways in many facets of life. Doesn't mean it makes total sense or is "right", just the way it is. It's not like MLB is going to push teams to report numbers that make them look worse after all.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 11:20 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 197

That's why the newspapers do the Tickets Sold vs the actual number of tickets torn (now scanned) at the turnstiles. Those two numbers NEVER correlate.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 1:02 PM by luke Highlight this comment 198

I agree completely Ben!

Tickets sold vs actual attendance are two completely different things but all that MLB and it's clubs are concerned about is the tickets sold as that is what generates the revenues.

And either way, teams will find a way to spin it to make them look good regardless of the actual numbers.

Dick and Bert talked more about the great baseball weather and great crowds last weekend than they did about the team's pathetic performances.

The club is on the verge of losing 90+ games for the third consecutive season, but hey, they still got 100,000 plus for the three game series with the Astros...two of the worst teams in baseball. If you are the Twins, you are more than pleased with that, and that's all that matters. Why fix it if it's not broken? As long as the fans continue to show up and the season ticket base remains strong, there is nothing to worry about from the ownership perspective. TV/Radio ratings also remain strong.

One thing is for certain and that being the "attendance" numbers will plummet as we head into September so we won't have to hear any more about such great crowds. They will do OK with the Saturday and Sunday games in September but the Monday - Friday games will not be very good.

What drives me crazy is the fans who complain about the bad team, bad ownership and so on, yet they continue to go to games. If you want to send a message to ownership and the entire Twins organization, than quit going to games and quit watching them on TV.

The best way to send a message to ownership is to hit them in the pocketbooks.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 1:08 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 199

How the Twins count and report the number of people "attending" games is a secret sauce -- just as it is for all the teams.

View all of those numbers as you would statistics spouted by politicians. They're just about as useful.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 1:30 PM by Rick 200

"quit watching them on TV"

I'm glad you mentioned this one because advertising rates fluctuate widely based on ratings from season to season. Not watching them on TV might actually have a greater affect than staying away from the ballpark, where the numbers have a very different meaning.

An exception may be MLB.TV, where you don't see the commercials (at least not the same ones), and the teams get paid directly through subscriptions which are paid in advance. There's less point to not-watching there, and thus a reason to switch -- if not for the annoying blackouts, which also serve to guarantee that team income will continue to be filtered through the advertising process.

That said, the real message has to come from the STHs. If you're dissatisfied, don't renew. It's really that easy.

The counter-argument from the team, of course, is that without your money they can't make things better. But that's really not true. Getting better, especially when it's done the "Twins way" just requires savvy.

I do get depressed that the whole structure of the drafting rules seems to guarantee long periods of rebuilding for the frugal teams, while affording considerably shorter cycles to the big spenders. Just part of the competitive imbalances, I suppose, but I still feel justified in allowing it to bug me.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM by Rick 201

As a STH, i am so torn on "supporting" the team. I have stuck out the seasn tickets this long and will probably do next year for the ASG.... BUT a case could be made to drop it and just pay scalpers hundreds of dollars over face, because you would still come out ahead if save the money from season tickets..

then factor in that i have a son who is just getting interested in baseball and going to games...

For me right now it comes down to the ASG, is it worth it, cause right now, this team isnt.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 1:54 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 202

Thrillhouse -- I am not sure what your season ticket plan is or how many seats you have but assuming you have the cheapest plan and also have two seats that will be $440.00 ($220.00 x 2 seats) for your 2014 renewal.

All-Star tickets will be sold in strips of 3 to include all events (Future's game, HR Derby and All Star game) I have no idea what cost we will be looking at but am assuming the "cheapest" will probably be about $350/strip? So you take your $220.00 + $350.00 and that is $570.00/seat x 2 = $1140.

That's fine if you can re-sell your 2014 games and/or one or two of your all star event tickets.

The problem is resale value has plummeted, especially with April, May and September games and we have no idea what the 2014 schedule will bring other than the Twins will be playing the NL West in Interleague(LA Dodgers and Arizona Diamondbacks at home as well as the Brewers)

The Brewers demand has diminished as well, especially if its another mid-week series. Once you weed out all of your April/May/September games, that pretty much leaves only the Yankees/Red Sox and June-July-August weekend games as your best bet for re-selling. And even the Red Sox and Yankees are not high demand if the games are played in April/May/Sept.

I made my choice last year to not renew and decided I would just save up and overpay for All Star Game tickets, even if that means paying $350-400 on the street. That is still much cheaper than having to renew in 2013 AND 2014 and having the headache of trying to unload so many low-demand games. I also live out-state so do not want to drive to Minneapolis three consecutive days for the Futures game, HR Derby and All Star game.

I had 2 friends drive down to KC last summer and they each paid $275/ticket on the street to get into the All Star game for seats in the upper deck down the left field line.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 2:42 PM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 203

ASG "priority" for less than full season packages is one huge pile of steaming turtle shit. You might have a slightly better chance than Joe Blow on the street but I wouldn't count on it. Those of us who are baseball, rather than Target Field "Experience", fans would probably be better off if the ASG were elsewhere - then the team would feel the need to get better rather than relying on ASG hype.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 2:58 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 204

Be happy to share what i got... we started our Season Ticket group when Target field was announced, so we did a few years in the metrodome. we did 8 shares of 10 games, one share took 11. IN the new park , we are currently in sec 214, 4 seats.

Well, we lost a few people and last year we had 3 shares, or 31 games extra. the rest of us decided we would split the lose (or profit ha ha) of the extra games. Remarkably, with only 6 games left, i am only down $118.

I started thinking about your scenario just recently and am factoring that into renewing this year. Just save the money from season tickets, and use that to go to an ASG event.

If the twins were just relevant and resale of tickets was guaranteed break even, i would do it... but i have put a lot of hours into reselling this year, and it sucks when you know there is no way you are going to break even on a Saturday game vs the White Sox because the twins made the tickets $50 FACE VALUE!

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 3:16 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 205

oh and cost of ours is avg $30 per ticket, or $1200 for 10 game share. So i could save the $1200, find someone on the street to go to game, and use savings through out year to go to games i want.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 3:21 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 206

I have to admit that the convenience of knowing where I'm going to sit, and how to get everywhere I want has me hooked on season tickets. That, and with people leaving in droves, the idea of buying low and moving into better seats, too.

I am a fish on a hook, but at least I know it.

Posted on August 20, 2013 at 11:05 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 207

jctwins... well said.

Question to you and any other STH... Does anyone else find the 5 price tiers annoying? i really don't like them. Am i alone?

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 08:47 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 208

I understand why they do it but it is annoying.

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 10:13 AM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 209

Pretty much agree with Joe117. I find it annoying, too. That said, I don't know that it's a factor. I think people go on StubHub and pay what they want to pay to get what they want.

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 210

I remember the first year they did tiers, it was 3 of them, and it ranged for my seats, i think $33-$42... but we still paid $30 per ticket. in that regard the tiers were almost a favor to the season ticket holder, so now they could sell the Elite games under face value and still come out ahead. I know part of that is to curb the scalpers, but it really stinks when you can't break even on a Saturday game in August. I am not trying to make money on my games i cant use, i just don't want to lose hundreds of dollars simply because i cant go to the game.

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 1:27 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 211

On the STH survey this year they asked about the prices on the physical tickets. Right now they put the face value. They asked if they should have face value, STH cost or no money value at all. I think I put face value but I didn't feel stongly about any of the choices.

What did other STH answer for that question?

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 1:56 PM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 212

I've had a generally positive experience with the tiers this year. I had to eat some tickets during the cold wet and snowy months of April and May, but once the weather warmed up I've been able to consistently sell tickets for more than I paid for them. I think the tiered pricing is the reason. That was important to me this year because I had an unusually large number of games that I was unable to attend.

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 2:03 PM by terry Highlight this comment 213

My thinking is that Stubhub has become the exclusive marketplace for resale, and people only compare the prices on the site against other seats.

Do you find people are looking at the Twins website or somewhere else before buying? I'm selling mostly in LC, which I think aren't listed on the Twins site, but hardly adds a big premium to the pricing.

Terry-I've never eaten tickets, or thought of doing that. How did they taste?

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 3:00 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 214

Why would they not want to put the price point on physical tickets? If they just printed a ticket without a face value printed on it, what's the purpose of "selling" tickets? No face value point printed almost gives it a "black market" value...you can sell it, or the team can sell it for whatever they damn well please, with no mark to keep prices "reasonable".

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 6:27 PM by luke Highlight this comment 215

On a more disappointing note: if my count is correct, I do believe the Twins notched their 70th loss of the season tonight against DET. *sigh+

Posted on August 21, 2013 at 10:16 PM by luke Highlight this comment 216

I absolutely hate the 5 tiered pricing for STHs. Unless your group just decides to go with the average per game cost, figuring out what's fair is a nightmare.

There is absolutely no benefit to me as an account owner to print tiered prices on season tickets. I don't like to use StubHub because a 25% swing + the new $1.50 per ticket is gouging both the buyer and seller. Everyone on CL wants the tickets for STH cost or what's printed on the ticket, whatever is lower.

Tiered pricing does nothing but hurt an STH and is a bad idea, especially if a team is going to be out of contention in May.

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 07:25 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 217

Joe117 - to answer your question - I said NO PRICE. I'd rather see Face Value, but with the STH cost as a floor, not the lower tier prices.

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 07:30 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 218

If anyone is interested in sharing LC tickets in Section G, row 5 for 2014 and/or has interest in buying the PSLs, please send me an email.

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 07:34 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 219

Jfh, how much do you sell on CL? It seems like it would be so inconvenient compared to SH. I've quit listing there. How do you finalize sales? It sounds like reality that you get a better price than SH because of the fee savings?

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 1:51 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 220

I will jump in on CL as well. I would say on avg i get about $5-$10 per ticketunder face value for sec 214. Sold a a few at face value and a few WAY UNDER.

Sure it is inconvenient a bit, but when i have sold about 10 games on craigslist, or in my case, 40 tickets, the savings add up quickly over stubhub. I have listed some games on stubhub that would of been more expensive to the buyer and profited me less, but i have never got any takers. CL has been good, and in the 8 or so years i have used it now, i have only had one person stand me up.

AS far as exchanging, i work downtown so can meet people pre game on a weekday noon game or a lot of times, people will be willing to drive down during the day and meet me on the street near my office building.

There is no question you will make more on CL than stubhub, it is just a matter of how much is your own time worth when it comes to to setting up times to meet the other person.

I did just have one unenjoyable experience. The guy told me he would come down town to meet me, but then said he would be late and could i meet him on my way hom in Richfield, i said sure, then it became Edina, and over by the mall... it was annoying, but we did work it out.

Like i said, it is all about preference.

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 2:17 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 221

Last weekend FSN was running a poll about fan preferences on the various, (5 I think), uniforms. I know there is some dislike for the blue tops on this site, but does anybody know what the results of the FSN poll was?

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 3:32 PM by trebor651 Highlight this comment 222

The old style uniform from the '60's were the choice of 47% and the remaining 53% were scattered among the others with the blue tops being the least favored. The margin was about 2 to 1 over the next highest vote getter. Was this meant to prepare folks for ranked voting in the Mpls mayoral election?

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 4:17 PM by terry Highlight this comment 223

Yeah, those pale blue unis from back in the 80s weren't my favorite. Matter of fact, I hated that whole era of the "pullover" jerseys that MLB used. Made MLB teams look like they had slightly nicer unis than Little League teams.

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 7:27 PM by luke Highlight this comment 224

The double knits from the '70's and 80's looked more like pajamas than baseball uniforms. I always thought it was karma that when the Twins got rid of those uniforms they went on to win the World Series in 1987. Hey, what's the use of being a baseball fan if you can't be superstitious?

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 8:05 PM by terry Highlight this comment 225

Going back to the broadcast advertising revenue topic. Since I only have access to the radio broadcasts, I'm not sure what TV ads include. I notice a large number of public service announcement type ads (getting kids to the forest, all I learned in school is that I'm stupid, etc.).

Does that large number of PSAs mean that the Twins can't sell all the ad spots, or are those still paid for by somebody and Twins still get revenue? It just seems to me that there are lots of those kind of ads on the radio broadcasts.

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 10:25 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 226

fiesta,

My days in radio are now long in the past, so things may have changed, but back in the day, PSAs were EXACTLY what you suspect. They were unpaid and used to fill in where no ads had been sold. When times were good, PSAs never saw the light of day. When times were bad, they were everywhere.

I don't see the ads on FSN either, so I can't gauge the percentage. But if it's more than just once in a while, it is definitely a sign that the Twins aren't selling every slot that they could.

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 10:33 PM by Rick 227

"The double knits from the '70's and 80's looked more like pajamas than baseball uniforms."

Oddly enough, the "Sweet Spot" bobblehead for this year has Mauer depicted in the powder blue pullover. I can't imagine he ever wore the uni given he would have been a kindergartener, give or take, when it was last worn. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems a very weird choice.

Posted on August 22, 2013 at 11:44 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 228

I don't remember the exact numbers from last week's twitter poll but it went something like this. The order is correct, just can't remember the exact percentages. I was surprised how popular the home blue jersey was but yet the road blue was the least favorite.

47% Cream throwbacks
22% home blue
20% home white
7% road gray
4% road blue

The reason I disliked the blue jerseys as much as I did last year is the fact that the Twins wore them so frequently. 57 times on the road and 41 times at home for a total of 98 games out of 162.

I am fine with the blue tops when they wear them just once or twice a week (Sundays/day games) but last year was too much with the alternates for the traditionalist in me. I like the clean looks of road gray vs home white.

This year they have worn the blue tops much less frequently which I have enjoyed. It has helped that Vance Worley was demoted to AAA because he usually selected the blue tops.

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 12:36 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 229

On the subject of the Vikings stadium, a ProFootballTalk post about the stadium deal negotiations (based on an article in the Minneapolis St. Paul Business Journal) is saying that:

"Plenty of additional dominoes have to fall before the stadium deal blows up and the Vikings join the Lakers in Los Angeles. But the chances of that happening are a lot more significant than they were last month at this time, when the possibility of the Vikings leaving was nil."

Which has started commenters on that post and Twitter getting all excited about the L.A. Vikings again.

Not that I agree with the tone of the ProFootballTalk article (they tend to get too opinionated at times) but, FYI, the L.A. Vikings sentiment is back out there in the media, even if it shouldn't be.

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 12:42 PM by hofflalu Highlight this comment 230

LA fans must be pretty desperate if they're clinging to this mess as some sort of hope for them.

In order to happen, A) the Wilfs would have to be forced to sell, B) local governments would have to unable to make a deal with the new owner, and then C) the new owner would have to decide to try LA.

I think that A is pretty unlikely, but it depends on what this judge does. The Wilfs really don't have very much cash (compared to other NFL owners), and this judgement could make things pretty tight for them. But even then, selling the team (potentially their largest asset) might not make much sense.

That said, the future of this particular stadium project could easily come down to the question of how big a house of cards the Wilfs are running.

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 1:26 PM by Rick 231

I'm reading that the Wilfs broke off negotiations with the Stadium Authority yesterday.

There were times in the Target Field saga when tensions ran high, but I don't ever remember them running this high -- at least after the legislative deal was struck (the wrangling over the land not being really in the same category as this, which is basically government vs. ownership and questions of fundamental trustworthiness).

From what I know about the schedule, there are a couple of months at least (maybe up to four) built in for contingencies, so this will only affect the opening date if it lasts much beyond Thanksgiving.

But this news does have an air of the Wilfs circling the wagons in preparation for whatever may be coming in New Jersey...

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 2:13 PM by Rick 232

I just allowed myself two mental experiments:

1. How would this situation look if the Authority had broken off negotiations instead of the Vikings?

2. From the Wilfs' point of view, what are the benefits/consequences of just walking away from this stadium deal?

In the case of the first question, things would probably look more neat but less dire. By continuing negotiations they were basically saying, "This is just a formality. Let's get on with it." That looks sloppy, to say the least.

Had they put their foot down, they would have been on firmer moral ground, and looked better when the report inevitably comes back without insurmountable problems.

The way it's actually happening, the Wilfs look like they might really have something to hide, or maybe more correctly, they recognize the shakiness of the ground they're standing on.

That, in turn, led to the second question.

You may remember that there is no obligation in the legislation for the Vikings to continue in this deal. It's not binding until they sign the contracts being negotiated (well, not being negotiated) now. They could, in a very real sense, stop giving money to the project, let it dissolve into a bunch of (relatively cheap) lawsuits, and play in the Metrodome until things turn up for them.

Doing that would certainly poison the relationship with the Governor and Legislature, and they'd have to wait around for a pretty long time before trying again. But, in their view, that might not be a bad thing because, instead of waiting, they could also flip the team and walk away with a tidy profit -- allowing stadium matters to start over with a clean slate.

My money is still on this whole thing getting resolved and a stadium being built now. But, oh, the twists and turns...

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 2:47 PM by Rick 233

I am 99% certain that the Wilfs will appeal the guilty verdict and forthcoming award judgment. It's hard to believe they'd have persisted this long with the case, as opposed to settling, if they planned to capitulate without even attempting an appeal or seeking a more favorable settlement with the plaintiff. The latter scenario would be in exchange for not appealing and prolonging matters while driving up court and legal costs for all as well having the plaintiff risk a higher court reducing the award or even overturning the verdict. For the record, the plaintiff sought about $50,000,000 in the suit along with legal fees and court costs.

I view the move by the Vikes to step back from the table as the Wilfs telling the likes of Dayton and Mondale to quit taking public shots at them as a manner of enhancing their own reputations as well as saying "if you plan to redo the existing deal, why are we wasting time talking about what's already on the table?".

The Vikings' share of NFL TV revenue for the contracts running from 2014 through 2022 will exceed $1,000,000,000 over the lifetime of the deals with CBS, ESPN, Fox, NBC, and NFL Network. That says nothing of other revenue streams and increased revenues from the future, yet to be negotiated TV deals to take effect in 2023. That revenue gives the team and the Wilfs the power to borrow and get lines of credit that would more than acccomodate their portion of the stadium even if the award to the plaintiff is substantial and the state tries to renegotiate the stadium funding deal.

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 2:50 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 234

I'll add that the Wilfs and Vikes have said, "we're done talking until the investigations into the Wilfs' and the team's finances are done" not "we done talking, period". That's a big difference.

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 2:53 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 235

What are these "negotiations" the Vikings supposedly "broke off" regarding anyway?
If I understood the article correctly, it mentioned "user agreements" as part of these negotiations...so does that mean the terms of the lease by which the Vikings will be bound? I guess I just figured the lease kinks were already worked out as part of the Legislation that got the stadium passed in the first place.

What I didn't like was the portions that mentioned the "tight (construction) schedule" being in "peril" with all this. AND, that if the construction schedule is delayed, cost overruns would come into play, and who fits the bill for that? You guessed it: Rick, Mike, Terry, TTH, jfh, me and all of us hard-working, Minnesota tax-paying BPMers.

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 4:40 PM by luke Highlight this comment 236

Not sure why my name isn't on comment 236 but that was mine.

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 7:56 PM by luke Highlight this comment 237

jctwins -

I sell very few games on Minnesota CL, because I'm not local (on a consistent basis), but have significant success with CL in Denver with my extra Rockies tickets. The extra hassle is generally worth it and both I and the buyer end up with a better deal than the typical SH sale. I suspect much of my success is due to the location of my seats (right behind the visitor dugout), but also to good/fair pricing - the problem with many CL ads is that most want premium pricing even for non-premium seats or games.

That said, I try not to start the season with very many individual games to sell - I would much rather have the security of committed season ticket partners upfront then try to sell a significant number of individual games. Most of the games I sell are games I originally planned to attend (or held for family).

My total profit on CL sales yields a signicantly higher profit level than SH sales and to me is worth spending the extra time. SH is useful to find the out of town or special event buyer that is willing to pay a hefty premium to have great, hassle-free seats or to dump tickets for some return at the last minute.

I'd much prefer to do the bulk of my selling on SH, but SH takes far too much on both sides (yes, I know some of that is because of MLBAM). I can see maybe 15% total, but greater than 25% may just be the level where the golden goose starts choking.

Posted on August 23, 2013 at 11:04 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 238

Thanks jfh...I have been given the impression that CL is a dead market because of inconvenience, but maybe I should rethink that.

Posted on August 24, 2013 at 12:11 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 239

Vikings Stadium Deal Further Unravelling

Clicky to hear my reaction after reading this article.

Posted on August 24, 2013 at 1:55 PM by luke Highlight this comment 240

Here's the salient part of that article:

(MSFA chair Kelm-Helgen) said the authority has spent $10.4 million on the project to date.

That's not even couch cushion money! In other words, we're certainly not deep enough into this project to go forward under any circumstances. (Had I guessed, I would have thought we were already $50 million into this, and that's getting close to that line.)

Feeding the media that nugget of information, which is completely unnecessary to the article, is a strong indication that the Authority wants people to realize that it's not too late to start over, and that they are now genuinely concerned about the overall viability of the financial agreements.

What seems weird to me is that this turn of events surprises anyone. The reputation of the Wilfs within the business community has never been good. They are widely viewed as boneheads who could never have built the "fortune" they have (which is largely inherited).

And it's probably not fair to apply stereotypes, but certain assumptions generally attach themselves to "real estate developers from New Jersey". I'm sure there are fine, upstanding ones, but I'm not sure that includes the Wilfs.

My advice to all concerned: Unless you get rock-solid commitments backed up with serious numbers, don't walk. Run away from this deal as fast as you can.

Posted on August 24, 2013 at 2:21 PM by Rick 241

Well said Rick.

Regarding to what you had said in Comments 232 and 233: Didn't the Legislature "pass" a ballpark bill back in 2002, that the Twins walked away from? I thought the story of it was that it just was not financially sound and/or feasible for the Twins to have built a ballpark under that Legislation. It seemed that the bill was just wrangled together to in a sense "just get 'er done." I could be wrong.

What you said in 233 is also true for that reason (if my memory does serve correctly), the Vikings are not by any means bound to this Stadium Legislation. I would love to see it done, I would love to stand outside my office building on 4th St and 2nd Ave on my lunch break and take a picture of the construction every day. But, I'm starting to think...this isn't gonna happen.

It's amazing how the jubilant ferver of finally getting this thing done a few months ago has wittled down to virtually nothing.

Posted on August 24, 2013 at 2:45 PM by luke Highlight this comment 242

Up above I wrote that the Vikings could, if they chose, simply stop giving money to the project and walk away. Well, I was wrong.

There's nothing to stop because they haven't given a dime to the project yet! According to the legislation, their first payment of $50 million is not due until it's time to issue bonds to cover construction costs. And that cannot happen until the two key agreements have been finalized -- the negotiations of which were just halted.

As of this minute, the Wilfs have no skin in this game whatsoever.

Posted on August 24, 2013 at 3:00 PM by Rick 243

Financial skin, no. However, if they walk, their already shaky reputation and the NFL chips they played take a big hit, not to mention the public and legislative will expended on the team's behalf. It really does the Wilfs and Vikings little good to start over much less scorch the earth for potential future owners. Even with the team's capital investment, the return from a sale would be higher with a stadium than without. So it all depends on how you define skin. Ultimately, despite the tension, I see this more as Kennedy in 1962 than Truman in 1945.

Posted on August 24, 2013 at 4:34 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 244

Oh I like the historical analogy Jorge. Well played.

Posted on August 24, 2013 at 4:45 PM by terry Highlight this comment 245

The best for me is Lester basically saying 'go ahead, we won't talk to you until you are done investigating, BUT we might not make the 2016 opener!'

Why does the public care about that? Play another season at TCF and see more snow games! The contract allows it, so it is a silly argument.

That said, I do like the stance by the Vikes....ok, we will totally stop until you decide if we are suitable partners. Take all the time you'd dare. Politicians ain't going to beat NJ developers in a staredown, but it will be fun to watch!

Posted on August 24, 2013 at 8:57 PM by Lincster Highlight this comment 246

Of all the ugly losses the last three years, today's may have been the ugliest. UGLY, UGLY, UGLY. No other word to describe it.

Posted on August 25, 2013 at 3:36 PM by terry Highlight this comment 247

I watched the Little League World Series instead. Much better baseball.

Posted on August 25, 2013 at 9:17 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 248

Three 90+ loss seasons in a row is NOT a good selling point for season tickets in our All Star Game year.

Posted on August 25, 2013 at 9:57 PM by luke Highlight this comment 249

90+...90+.... what is this, the Weather Channel blog?

Posted on August 26, 2013 at 1:13 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 250

It's so blistering outside that rumor has it Holiday had to set a water bowl next to its hot dogs. FCOL!!

Posted on August 26, 2013 at 1:21 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 251

It's so hot ------- that I saw two trees fighting over a dog.

Posted on August 26, 2013 at 3:21 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 252

Its so hot, this is the only hot streak the Twins will experience this year.

Posted on August 26, 2013 at 8:30 PM by luke Highlight this comment 253

I was at the STH Advisory Council meeting last night. One of the issues discussed very briefly was a possible reconfiguration of the Metropolitan club. They were doing some instant electronic polling and asked people what they thought of modifications such as expanding the bar, having a lounge-type area with casual seating, and altering the food options with sit-down service, or more walk-up ala carte stations instead of the buffet. I'd like to see them do some of the latter - I like having the club as a benefit but when I go don't necessarily want to drop 30 bucks plus drinks on dinner - I'd rather just have a comfortable place for a lighter meal or a drink. It sounds like they are just beginning to think about it but maybe there will be a format change by next year.

Posted on August 27, 2013 at 08:25 AM by ClarkAddison Highlight this comment 254

Clark, i am curious, what else was brought up at the meeting?

Posted on August 27, 2013 at 09:23 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 255

The Met club needs more stations and they need those stations to be equipped to accept credit cards. The area in front of the main bar is always a mosh pit. More casual seating is a good idea as well.

Posted on August 27, 2013 at 11:01 AM by terry Highlight this comment 256

This ballclub isn't very good, is it?

Posted on August 27, 2013 at 11:53 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 257

I like the buffet in the Met Club and have it once per trip, but I would like to see a sit down menu service option and/or more stations.

Yes, the team is terrible.

On the bright side - season ticket renewal and All Star Game info is in the mail. We can look forward to April 1st and being a .500 ball club again. Jim was looking forward to having the ASG and the World Series at Target Field next year - anyone want to predict those odds?

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 12:25 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 258

The ST renewal package is very heavy on ASG hype. Very slick. It would be nice if they put some of that energy into constructing a ball team. The way they covered second on that pitch-out last night tells you everything you need to know about the team.

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 07:33 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 259

Did anyone see the story about the guy who has filed a lawsuit (representing himself)which seeks to compel the Vikings to move to Arden Hills? I just hope someone tells him not to wear face paint in court.

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 08:34 AM by terry Highlight this comment 260

Ben,

Did the renewal package have prices for the ASG?

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 09:33 AM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 261

I think the disgust for the team has started to set in for the casual fans. The game recap in the Strib today was full of negative comments on the players, the front office, gardy...but instead of having half thumbsup/half thumbs down reviews for the negative posts, they were almost all thumbs up.

It is nice to see them come to the light.

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 09:40 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 262

Jfh -- Maybe Jim was referring to the inner-city RBI World Series played in early August :)

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 10:41 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 263

For anyone who was nervous, this just in from MPR:

"A spokeswoman for the Minnesota Sports Facilities Authority says Wednesday the Vikings now appear to have turned over all documents needed for a due diligence review of the finances of owners Zygi and Mark Wilf. ... The review could wrap later this week or next."

Why am I not surprised that it could be resolved so quickly...?

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 12:06 PM by Rick 264

Rick, why am I surprised this wasn't part of the original stadium financing negotiations a year ago??

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 12:55 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 265

Well, we needed a little political theater this year, eh? (We had enough last year.)

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 3:10 PM by Rick 266

Twins are but a few away from breaking their strikeout record for a season. Suppose DickBert or the team spinmeisters will make mention of that event?

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 4:22 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 267

Not sure I understand the logic of selling the ASG to existing STHs. The primary benefit to the ASG host team is to be able to offer strips as an incentive to new STHs and then to hope a majority of those new sales "stick" in subsequent seasons.

Are the Twins so concerned over losing STHs in 2014 that they are overselling the ASG? Are there really any existing STHs that haven't already decided what they are doing for next year?

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 4:49 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 268

Ben, that might be the only 'excitement' afforded to us bewildered fans in this - what's looking to be our third consecutive - 90+ loss season.
Get ready for a lonely September at TF.

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 5:15 PM by luke Highlight this comment 269

I would guess a lot of group leaders get the material and then ask their people how many want to renew. Knowing that many of them will get hosed on the ASG, they look at recent performance and say "no thanks." The Twins are hoping that the group leader will be anxious enough to renew the tickets anyway...

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 5:23 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 270

The story about that knucklehead suing to get the stadium in Arden Hills made me laugh out loud. What does he really expect to accomplish? The manner in which he was utterly dismissed as a nutcase seems to have completely sailed past him.

As for the Wilfs handing over the financial information, I never doubted that would happen. The stuff beforehand was a bit of sabre rattling after Dayton and others went a bit far with the attitude. Between personal wealth and the money machine that is the Vikings, the dough is there. It does them little good to walk away now. That team is far more valuable in a potential sale, and to borrow against, based on the stadium revenues than not.

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 9:15 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 271

I also agree that this so called due diligence should have been done ages ago. Then again, the people doing it believed e-tabs would pay the state's share of the freight, or at least pretended or falsely convinced themselves in the name of persuading others. So it should probably not come as a surprise that the lawsuit and its potential consequences escaped attention.

Posted on August 28, 2013 at 9:22 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 272

The Viking's issue seems to be whether the Wilfs are financially able to hold up their end of the stick. Should it not rather be whether the taxpayers are forced to lie down with Joisy gangsters?

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 06:32 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 273

"Knowing that many of them will get hosed on the ASG" - well, on paper all non-account holders will (though I'll bet that, come June, the no-more-strips-than-seats policy will disappear and STHs will be offered more strips).

The people I've had drop in my group in the past few years are those that are tired of paying major league prices to see AA or AAA caliber baseball or who have moved out of the area. I don't think the ASG is going to have an impact on their decision.

As an STH, I'm not going to hold on to an entire season myself, just to get ASG seats. I doubt I'll be in that position, but if I were, I'd drop the seats and buy ASG tickets in the secondary market - I'm sure there will be many STHs that buy the strips with the sole intention of resale. Most won't get anywhere near the price what they think they will and many will end up selling them at cost or a small loss. (I got awesome seats for the 2011 game in Arizona right behind home plate by trading up this way).

Who here is an STH that is renewing next year just for the ASG?

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 08:43 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 274

Jfh,

While myself and group are not solely renewing for ASG, i would say it plays a large part. That is why we renewed this year with a reduced group and while we will again this year.

At this point, if the group decided they want to be done, i would be absolutely fine with that, and just go buy tickets off craigslist. i dont foresee ever having to pay more than face value for a reg season game in the next 2 years.

I would however be sad to lose my seats, i do love them, they are a great value, except for the Elite Tier at $50, what a joke.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 10:18 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 275

The though part is that the longer your are an STH and the better your seats get, the harder it is to let them go.

Do the other members in your group expect some ASG benefit?

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 11:00 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 276

Echoing Thrillhouse on everything he said.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 11:22 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 277

To renew or not renew...there are so many factors/variables that go into play, everyone's situation is probably different.

For me, I had the cheapest plan at $220 (20 games x $11) x 2 seats so it wasn't the cost itself. However, I live in SE Minnesota and it's a good 75 minute drive one-way to each game and it just gets expensive when you start adding up the time off from work, gas money, parking and food.

The secondary market/re-sell value has also plummeted over the last two years, especially for the April, May and September games. Even in 2010, it was difficult to sell some of the September games.

And to be honest, this team just doesn't excite me anymore. Justin Morneau's best days are behind him and while Joe is a great player, he just doesn't excite me too much anymore.

Until Sano, Buxton, Hicks and those guys come up and the team returns to competency and gets the fanbase excited again, there is just no reason to spend money on this current squad regardless of the All Star Game. Do you really get excited about Trevor Plouffe and Clete Thomas and Chris Colabello?

And the elephant in the room is the schedule and weather. The Twins had a terrible home schedule this year and the weather in April and May was downright awful for baseball. The Yankees are not the great draw they once were and other teams like the Brewers and Red Sox are not great draws anymore either. Twins fans know they can never beat the Yankees. Had the Brewers series been on a weekend like in years past, those games would have been much higher demand but MLB screwed that up with the 2-2 home and home series Monday-Thursday.

I will say the Twins would be smart to have a 10-game mini plan or some type of weekend plan and I would probably consider signing up for season tickets again.

Until that happens, it's simply too tough to sell those April, May and September games and I got tired of losing money on those games. I simply wanted to break even and couldn't even do that.

STH benefits have also went downhill in recent years, although they are bringing back some decent benefits again, they are nothing like they once were.

The tiered-pricing structure for season tickets was also a turn-off for me. To me, the season ticket holder should pay one base price for every game, regardless. That was one perk of season ticket holders was to pay only $11 for a ticket regardless of premium game or value game. They need to find a way to bring back more value to the season ticket holder, especially for those "premium" weekend games in June-July-August.

If you are on the edge of whether or not to renew for the 2014 season, just wait until the 2014 schedule is released and that may make your decision much easier.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 12:43 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 278

Jfh,

yes, everyone in my group expects some part of ASG benefits, we are all equal share holders. I have some friends who have bought off a few games here and there, but they are not partners.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 1:50 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 279

Mike,

well said, and i totally get having to drive over an hour to see the team. I too hate the tiers (as i have said before) and it makes it impossible to break even. If i knew i could break even, or be close, on games i had to sell, i would be much more willing to get tickets, but losing cash every time i have to sell, sucks. Going to 2 games in Sept already, trying to sell 5, anyone want some? :)

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 1:52 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 280

I see our boys are taking it on the chin again today. Gardy gets tossed in the first inning. At least he gets to watch in the air conditioning now. 4-14 with a shot at going 4-15 vs the Royals bout says it all! Gonna be a ghost town in there for the Sept games! Mike might I suggest some Holiday dogs to cut down on the food costs?

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 281

Wow swept at home by the Royals? How can Gardy stomach the last 30 games? Will Perk ever get another save situation this year? I see another 8 K's today to add to our season record totals also. Look on the bright side. We got 3 games with Houston coming up after the Texas series!

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 3:06 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 282

How can Carry stomach the last 30 games? How can he stomach the last three seasons?

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 3:16 PM by luke Highlight this comment 283

I can see Gardy running into Ryans office now! Uncle Uncle! I can't stand watching this anymore! Fire me Please!

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 3:18 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 284

They have not won at Target Field since Thursday, August 15...their next home game is Friday, September 6 meaning they will go at least 3 weeks without a single win at home.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 3:36 PM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 285

I haven't met anyone that thinks tiered pricing for STH is a good idea. No matter how you look at it, it hurts the account holder. The biggest perk of being an STH, the discount value of the tickets, is too little - even if you keep box office prices the same, season ticket costs need to be reduced. But obviously that isn't going to happen. In 2015 when STH levels plummet, I suspect someone in the front office will realize the disparity between ticket pricing and the level of play on the field and propose a fix, but by then the damage will be done - the new ballpark effect will have been completely wasted and you will have a disillusioned, disappointed fan base, not an excited one that feels they get good value for their money (note to Twins: see how the Yankees have totally mismanaged their STHs the last few years).

Thrillhouse - I wish you luck in splitting the benefits. Extra FanFest tickets will be easy to get, but what everyone wants is tickets to the ASG itself. Short of having a proportional share drawing, I don't know how you please everyone and it seems to me that only one person doesn't end up disappointed (unless the Twins end up allowing STHs to purchase extra strips and even managing that is tough). Sharing postseason is a piece of cake compared to the ASG.

As for the schedule, I'm hoping anything will be better than this year. I don't ever remember a worse home schedule than the 2013 one.

I remember a couple of years ago when no one in my group wanted Royals games. I wonder how many Kansas City groups will say that about the Twins next year.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 3:49 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 286

Reusse called this collection the worse team he has seen in 30 years!

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 4:25 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 287

The renewal brouchure is really sad .... Makes it seem like the only thing to look forward to in 2014 is All Star Week.

There is one new benefit (or returning one) - there will be a season ticket exchange program again. No details on how that will work or ASG event pricing, which I expect to see in January after everyone is already on the hook.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 5:44 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 288

Blow the whole team up. From Ryan on down. Kick Gardy and the rest of the coaching staff (especially Anderson and Brunansky) to the curb and start from scratch. Release Morneau and let him find another job. No one will want a $23M singles hitter, so ship Mauer down to AA and leave him there for the duration of his contract. He can help develop young pitchers and become somewhat useful again.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 6:03 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 289

JFH, I did see a reference somewhere to switching for "specific games", making me think they will offer low attendance games as the exchange. This could be interesting.

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 8:26 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 290

If the exchange program is for "specific" games, let's hope it's more like the Rockies past exchange program (where you have about 20 games a year to pick) vs. the old Twins program where there were 3 that were very restricted (roughly one for each third of the season).

I'd also love to see them have something like the Rockies future exchange program (can exchange tickets for any unplaced game for any other, save about 6), but that's wishing for way too much ...

Posted on August 29, 2013 at 11:53 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 291

Went to the game yesterday. A beautiful sunny afternoon, but watching that team "hit" is like watching paint dry. I guess the answer to those terrible numbers with runners in scoring position is to not put runners in scoring position.

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 07:17 AM by terry Highlight this comment 292

As I was taking my usual route to work this morning (394 to 94 west) I had this thought:

If the equation were (quality of ballpark) / (quality of team), do the Twins have the highest score in baseball?

We're not quite to 'divide by zero' territory, but we're getting close...

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 07:55 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 293

Twins payroll might approach about 50 mil next year once Morneau is off the books and if they get rid of Willingham. Course the baby jesus will take up close to half that 50 mil. Is Mauer the new Pierre Marc Bouchard version of the Twins?

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 08:34 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 294

JFH,

Our group is down to 4 shares, so at the very least we each take one ticket to ASG and done. I would also be ok selling our seats and using that money to buy more tickets in a cheaper spot from scalpers.

We will figure it out... or, we will just disband now and say screw it, to the whole fiasco.

The whole STH has really lost its luster. You said it perfectly when you said our savings are not enough. For my seats this year, it was $20-$50 face value, which turns out to be $5 less than face value for all my games, avg of $30 per ticket. If they want to make it right, charge $25 per ticket for STH and have the lowest priced game be face value of $25. Sure you save no money on the cheap games, but you have a lot more room to work with on the ones priced $35-$50, which is the majority of them.

Exchange program, i saw that too. I thought the last year(s) of the dome we could exchange for basically any other game. I thought the 3 games were there if you missed a game totally, meaning, if i had the unused tickets for a game i could exchange for one of those set games. am i remembering that wrong?

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 2:25 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 295

Thrillhouse - your idea for pricing is a good one, but makes too much sense so we will never see it. As for the ticket exchange program, you may be right - I didn't use it much and don't remember the details,

You have a good setup for splitting up the ASG strips - won't be so easy for most groups.

FTK - the Twins win for sure - there are only a few teams worse - and very few parks that wold even be considered in the same category as Target Field. TF is easily the best park in the AL and at least in the top 3 in baseball (with Coors Field, PacBell and maybe PNC)

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 2:57 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 296

The underlying theme that I'm detecting in the STH discussion, but that no one has come right out and said in so many words, is that the product on the field simply isn't worth the current STH prices, let alone the walk-up prices.

This isn't some grand revelation, of course, but the secondary market (in the guise of Stubhub) makes it painfully clear exactly how much any particular ticket is actually worth, and it's rare that the price STHs paid is covered by the resale -- and that's before fees!

By changing to tiered pricing, the Twins openly acknowledged that certain opponents are worth more or less than others (something we've all known for a long time), and suggested that they were making it easier for STHs to recoup their investment -- albeit by basically cooking the books, while letting their marketing department also take advantage of the disparity in opponent values.

But that only works (and even then only sort of works) when the team you're actually selling -- i.e. the home team -- is worth at least the lowest tier price on a day-to-day basis. It hasn't been that way for quite some time now.

It will take years of pounding from the fans for the team to accept this and bring STH prices back into line with the value of the product (and then merely by way of skipping increases, of course, rather than *gasp* actually lowering prices). Even if it were to happen, by that time ('15, '16, '17), there's a chance that this team will be decent and worth the price again.

As we now know, the solution is actually to punish the team when they suck. Don't renew. Don't watch. Don't go. (If you do go, at least don't buy beer.)

But that doesn't sound very much like Twins fans.

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 2:59 PM by Rick 297

Rick and don't forget to bring your own Rum and Holiday dogs and or brats in! My suggestion is always buy the cheapest seat and sit where you want to! Happy Labor Day everybody!

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 4:05 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 298

When talking about "value" of STH, what also isn't being discussed here is the "value" in having a consistent means of knowing you will treat yourself to entertainment, or treat your employees or clients to that entertainment.

As I look around LC, and when I was in Dugout Box, the majority were corporate owned seats that were being given to employees of large companies. Someone deemed at some time that it was of value to do that. There is little correlation to on-field quality for this value.

For me, STH has become my consistent means of entertainment, in place of a boat or cabin, where many other people put their money. You can go rent a cabin whenever you want, and probably pay less, but you're less likely to do it than if you own it.

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 11:19 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 299

So, after writing the above, I've been thinking about what it means for those of us who simply love watching baseball, regardless of the relative quality of the team. Like it or not, the 25 guys the Twins put out there do represent some of the very finest baseball players on the planet (insert joke here about your favorite overrated or overmatched player).

I love going to Target Field -- or any other major league park, and even some minor league parks. To a certain extent, I really don't care who's playing. I love watching the game, and the crowd, and the hoopla, and just soaking in the atmosphere. I love the food. I love the whole idea of spending time at the ballpark. I love scoring the game. I love finding new things to photograph -- there's always something. I love watching strategies unfold, and great plays being made, and great players even if they're not on my team.

So what do I do when my own team really sucks and truly needs to be punished for the team they've managed to (dis)assemble?

This year it hasn't been much of an issue because various Things have gotten in the way of planned excursions. (Example: I was supposed to kick off my birthday weekend -- 50! -- by going out there yesterday afternoon. But Minneapolis schools closed our building because it doesn't have air conditioning. So, instead of going to the game, I hung out with my kids. Not a bad trade-off, I suppose, but definitely disappointing. They mostly watched TV all day anyway...)

So, how do I punish the team and still get my fix of the Great Game? Saints? Iowa Cubs? Northwoods League?

(I'm asking for advice. I really don't know.)

Posted on August 30, 2013 at 11:23 PM by Rick 300

Rick,

I think the majority of non-corporate STHs feel the same way - they just love baseball. I would rather watch a game at the park then on TV. Tonight I went to my 39th Rockies game of the year; add another 9 games at Target Field and you have a lot of baseball. You can't help but get invested in your team(s) at that level. How else do you explain Cubs STHs? The only thing tougher than being a Twins STH the last three years is being a Cubs fan the last seventy. There is nothing better than seeing a game at the ballpark- you could see history at any moment. Tonight, I saw Todd Helton get hits 2498 and 2499 - two monster three run home runs to right field. His at bat in the 8th inning trying for hit 2500 was the most exciting at bat I've ever seen. With two runners on again, every pitch was more intense than the last. Have you ever seen a standing ovation for a home team player that swung and missed at a 3-2 pitch? I hadn't until tonight. Incredible excitement, like Kubal's first Target Field home run or Thome's blast. Seeing Tulo turn an unassisted triple play or seeing Mauer win a game with one swing.
Being at the last game at the Dome, only to come back again for the real last game, only to win game 163 to keep the last game streak going. Watching a kid get a foul ball or the first time or having their first ballpark hot dog. It's all of that that gets you worked up to want that high of an eight and a half inning game or walk off win and that makes it that much harder to stay away from the park even when logic says your team is more likely to disappoint you than not.

Posted on August 31, 2013 at 12:40 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 301

Eloquently said jfh; you certainly described my feelings. And there are truly exciting moments and great achievements even in the years when the team is out of contention by Memorial Day. And if staying away from the ballpark would result in a better team on the field, the Saint Louis Browns should have dominated the American League for decades!

Posted on August 31, 2013 at 10:27 AM by terry Highlight this comment 302

Morneau traded to Pirates. We get very little in return.

Posted on August 31, 2013 at 2:14 PM by antifire Highlight this comment 303

the Morneau/Mauer bobblehead I got at the Indians game last month just went up in value I think.

Posted on August 31, 2013 at 2:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 304

A little sad to see Justin go in what is little more than a salary dump.

At least he'll have one more chance at post-season.

Posted on August 31, 2013 at 3:29 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 305

Rick,

In regards to post #300, I wonder if that isn't part of what made the Saints so popular in their early years. The Twins stunk, they played under a Teflon sky and there was little reason to go. The Saints offered outdoor ball, excitement, something new and something fun.

I fully resonate with jfh in #301. I love being at a ballpark, and will seek out a game if I am away from home and there is a ballpark of major or minor league teams. Since I live in the Twin Cities, I will be taking in Twins baseball as long as I can, though at certainly reduced numbers of games while they are not playing well.

For the rest of this season, it looks like I may be a Pirates fan. Make us proud, Justin. Due to Torii, I might be a Tigers fan. Nah, can't go there...

Posted on August 31, 2013 at 4:10 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 306

Justin seemed to have been reacquiring his HR swing in recent weeks. Do you suppose he'll be a 35 HR guy and on the NL all-star team next year, along side Carlos Gomez and Francisco Liriano. And of course J.J. Hardy and David Ortiz on the AL team? This team's personnel decisions the last few years have been pretty horrible.

Posted on August 31, 2013 at 6:48 PM by terry Highlight this comment 307

Just to inject a little real math into the discussion of the cost of the STH. I have 40 games. Sell 10 to a partner at the STH price, so break even on those. Adding up those tickets and the tickets I've sold to friends and on Stubhub, I have sold a total of 19 out of the 40+ games I bought this year (bought a few single games too). I have lost a total of $30.98 on those sales. Not too bad on a $1000 investment. Some sold for over face value, some less. I agree that it's harder to sell in the second hand market but it's not that horrible. I have the advantage of having some of the better seats in a cheap section (Skyline view) so if I price myself properly I can almost always make a sale, even if I'm only partially recovering my cost, because there are always people just looking for a bargain, and I'm usually the best seat of the bargains out there.

Posted on August 31, 2013 at 10:22 PM by ClarkAddison Highlight this comment 308

Does anyone here have experience with the gameday upgrades? What is the pricing? Is it STH price or face value? I don't have a smart phone, though, and an e-mail to a mobile device seems like the only way to do it from my first look.

Posted on September 1, 2013 at 4:03 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 309

Some magic at the ballpark today:

Cuddy hit career HR 175 and went 4-4; Helton slices a double down the left field line for his 2500th hit.

(Coors Field. I don't think Target Field remembers what ballpark magic is ...)

Posted on September 1, 2013 at 8:53 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 310

Anybody see that base running exhibition the lads put on in the 5th inning? "The Twins Way" has been replaced by "The Mack Sennett/Keystone Kops Way".

Posted on September 2, 2013 at 3:15 PM by terry Highlight this comment 311

My wife and I are going to the game on Sunday...Just my 4th game of the year and, most likely, my last game of the year.

Can't say how excited I am...or not....to see Chris Herrmann, Trevor Plouffe, Darin Mastroianni, Clete Thomas, Chris Colabello, Josmil Pinto and Doug Bernier...

No Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Michael Cuddyer, Ben Revere, Johan Santana, Torii Hunter, or Joe Nathan...

I have never been more disinterested in Twins baseball than I have this year and it's a shame because I enjoy baseball and I enjoy Target Field but it's going to be a rough September and probably a rough 2014 and 2015 season as well.

There is just no excitement surrounding this team right now and it's sad. The only thing they have going for them are prospects like Hicks, Sano and Buxton. And they are still a few years away...
However, It's not too late to get your 2014 season tickets and establish your 2014 All-Star Game priority!!!

Posted on September 3, 2013 at 2:42 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 312

I too am going to the game on Sunday, I think it is my 11th game of the year. I look forward to the overall experience of being at a game at Target Field even if the Twins stink that day I still try to have fun. I do hope the Twins get better soon, but even if they don't I will still go to games because I just plain enjoy being at the old ballgame.

Posted on September 3, 2013 at 5:59 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 313

I'm going Saturday. Mainly to see the ballpark for the last time in 2013...not so much for the team.

Posted on September 3, 2013 at 6:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 314

I love baseball and the Twins, but will not be attending another game this year. I live in WI now and miss going to games, when going to mpls and not taking in a game is very tough. However, it is too bad that me not attending is not large enough to send a message to management, because others will make up the difference. It feels like what people say about voting, does my vote even count in the grand scheme. Go Pirates, another win closer to a division title.

Posted on September 3, 2013 at 11:42 PM by tk Highlight this comment 315

It's fun to watch a new crop of players develop, so I'll be going to another half dozen games or so. Pinto, Arcia, and Dozier look like they can be important pieces on the next winning Twins team, and hopefully we see a few other guys play their way into future considerations.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 12:05 AM by Jp Highlight this comment 316

September baseball is fun to watch future players develop.

Watching September baseball In April, May, June, July and August - not so much.

The front office needs to figure out by November that another year of September baseball isn't going to outweigh the excitement of three days in July.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 01:00 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 317

Saw this note today in Shooter's column-

It's a good bet that if new Pittsburgh Pirate Justin Morneau doesn't re-sign with the Twins, his No. 33 jersey won't be given to any other player in the organization.

Is that hinting at the possibility that the Twins may consider retiring Morneau's #33? I am sorry, but Morneau does not belong in the same group of players as Puckett, Hrbek, Oliva, Killebrew and Carew. Blyleven was a stretch in my opinion too. Nothing against Morneau, but he just does not belong in the same group as Puckett, Hrbek, Oliva, Killebrew and Carew.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 09:26 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 318

Hrbek and Morneau have very similar stats. I believe Hrbek's number was retired because he was a hometown guy and likable to go along with very solid stats.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 09:41 AM by FD Highlight this comment 319

Hrbek was also on 2 World Series winners. It is a no brainer to put Morneau in the Twins Hall of Fame but would not retire his number.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 09:56 AM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 320

I would agree that #33 should not be retired. It was a good run (and could continue again) but not nearly enough to warrant a retired number. Maybe they will keep it out of circulation for a few seasons but don't retire it. His career here will warrant the Twins HOF but that is sufficient.

Blyleven is in the HOF so that is probably the main reason his number got retired by the Twins. He played half of his 22 seasons here and won a WS. Anyone know if the Rangers, Pirates, Indians or Angels also retired his #?

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 321

Don't get me wrong, i like to watch players develop, but I can do that better watching MLB.TV

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 12:23 PM by tk Highlight this comment 322

3 - HOF, WS
29 - HOF
6 - WS
14 - WSx2
34 - HOF, WSx2
28 - HOF, WS
10 - WSx2

All of those retired numbers at TF belong to either HOFers, or guys who brought us a WS (or both). That's a pretty elite club. I know that there are other, lesser, criteria, but those seem to be the ones that count.

So, retire #33? No way.

But what about #7? Likely, if he makes the HOF (bringing us a WS doesn't appear in the cards).

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM by Rick 323

Morneau should be any where near the Twins Hall of Fame, much less having his number retired. He was an MVP one year. I don't think that merits the hall of fame. This is an assumption, but I think Shooter was suggesting that if the Pirates do not resign Morneau he will sign back with the Twins. Hence the reason the Twins would keep his number open.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 1:35 PM by Duffman Highlight this comment 324

Duffman - Greg Gagne, Gary Gaetti, Earl Battey, Bob Allison are all in the Twins HOF. Is Morneau a lesser player than any of them? It's not like the Twins HOF is comparable in any kind of stature to Cooperstown. It recognizes great players in the Twins history, not all time greats in comparison to all of baseball. Justin will more than likely be a 1st time ballot entry to the Twins HOF.

Also, the comment from Shooter says if Justin doesn't re-sign with the TWINS. No need to reserve it for him if he is playing elsewhere. Unless they think they will retire it.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 3:32 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 325

The Twins retired Hrbek's number in 1995 in order to get a decent gate and positive PR at a point when the team was awful, had little chance of contending in the then near future, the Metrodome was becoming a liability to drawing fans in the post Camden Yards era, and bitterness over the 1994 strike was deeper locally than I'd say in most MLB markets. I won't deny Kent's great popularity, closeness to the organization, and local ties, but those were very poor reasons for retiring #14.

Looking at the numbers and the manner in which he honestly wasted his potential by never being in shape and getting constantly injured as a result, Kent was overrated in these parts by most. Retired player numbers should go to HOF members or those who should be inducted in Tony O's case. Hrbek doesn't pass muster by those standards and, on that basis, neither does Morneau. However, given the honors he's won and may yet win along with the standards for catchers, I think Joe Mauer will make the HOF and should get his number retired too.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 4:19 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 326

By HOF, I meant Cooperstown. The barrier for entry to the Twins HOF is much lower. Morneau has earned his place in that regard, as has Hrbek for that matter.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 4:20 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 327

If I remember correctly Reusse named Rex Turkey of the Year on the grounds that he had cheated Twins fans out of a few more more years of watching him play. Retiring his number was just additional evidence that the team is a marketing whore.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 5:27 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 328

Hrbek was the cleanup hitter on the only two WS winners in franchise history. He's also a local boy, and fan favorite due to his devil may care attitude. That's plenty of reasons to retire his number.

Posted on September 4, 2013 at 11:49 PM by Jp Highlight this comment 329

I think it's pretty simple regarding Hrbek. If he was from Bloomington, Indiana, there's no way his number would be retired or he'd have a gate in his honor. But since he's "one of us", he got some special treatment.

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 11:00 AM by IowaWigman Highlight this comment 330

In advance of completing its inquiry, Dorsey and Whitney said the Wilfs and Vikings have the funds to pay for thier share of the stadium. That this was ever in doubt, given the income from the NFL's TV deals alone, was a bit absurd. Verifying their finances is wise and justifiable, but should have been done about 18 months ago. If it had to be done now, we should all have been spared the melodramatic statements and posturing that came with it, both from those requesting the data and those providing it.

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 1:16 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 331

Has anyone ever wondered if the state even has the ability to pay their share of the new stadium. Maybe someone should be looking into that as well.

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 3:10 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 332

Leroy - as long as the smokers keep buying their cigs, the state should be good right? Or was that a one-time usage, I can't remember.

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 3:33 PM by IowaWigman Highlight this comment 333

Iowa,

That's what everybody thinks, but it isn't so. It was a one-time capture of money by closing a tiny loophole which had been discovered. It's enough to (partly) cover one year of the state's obligation, but nothing more. They will have to find another source for next year (and the 28 which follow).

And, just for the record, the city's leg of the stool is just as shaky as the other two.

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 3:46 PM by Rick 334

Of course the state doesn't have the money Leroy, they keep using it for pet projects - like streetcar systems that we don't need (that we once HAD until the entity pulled up the tracks), shutting down entrance and exit ramps on 35W and 694 for no good reason. We are a very financially irresponsible state.

Rick, are we even going to break ground for a stadium that we fought so hard to get for the last 11 years? Did the Vikings sign a lease agreement for TCFBS for no other good reason than a sniff of the 409? Are we going to be stuck at the HHHumpty Dump forever?

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 5:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 335

Jorge-
It's been interesting to watch, given that as far as I can tell the Wilfs have never been in a position to put any of their own money forward (IIRC, all of the team's portion is covered by the NFL's loan or by future revenue the team will pull in via PSL's and the like).

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 5:17 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 336

"that we once HAD until the entity pulled up the tracks"

Were the tracks pulled up by the "entity" or just paved over Luke? Minneapolis had one of the best streetcar systems on the planet until someone hornswaggled the usual idiot politicians into buying buses instead. Care to guess who that someone was?

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 6:26 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 337

Yes Ben, I know we did. Matter of fact, I worked along Nicollet Ave S when they tore up the tracks. Some were paved over, yes (I.e. on the Lake St Bridge...the old one) but in other places they were tore up.

As for the "someone" I can only imagine: Harvey McKay, Amy Klobuchar, Hubert Humphrey III, Wheelock Whitney, Carl Pohlad, Norm Green, Pat Forceia...I don't know, but "someone" was responsible...lol.

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 9:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 338

The issue of the Wilf's using or not using "their own money" comes up often. It's not as if they, or most NFL owners, have liquidity to the extent of effectively paying up front for a stadium. Even if they did, it's not as if they'd pour it into such a project wholesale. It's just not a smart use of money. The wealth of the Wilfs and their peers is tied up in hard assets and investments. Further wealth, and financial flexibility, comes from their ability to obtain loans and lines of credit based on the income generated from those hard assets and investments.

We all do this to an extent. I'd venture that every homeowner bought their house, condo or townhome with the bank's money, not their own. We couldn't have done it any other way. So when I hear about the Wilfs getting loans from the NFL and leveraging future revenue from PSLs, my response is "big deal". The Wilfs'/Vikings' share will still be financed and will need to be repaid with interest, meaning they'll ultimately pay significantly more than the often mentioned $487,000,000 figure on a dollar for dollar basis.

We can complain up and down that the state made a bad deal and that the e-tab thing was as legit as a $3 bill and should never have been signed into law. However, if the deal as passed is going to move ahead and the Wilfs/Vikes can pay their share of the freight, and there's honestly been little to no reason to think otherwise, then I'd say it's more important to figure out the public end of the financing.

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 10:38 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 339

Really every homeowner should be most since there are exceptions.

Posted on September 5, 2013 at 10:39 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 340

Per LaVelle, Mauer worked out yesterday at Target Field and is still experiencing concussion symptoms and is not close to returning to action.

Why in the world don't the Twins just place him on the 60 day DL and end his season.

There is NO REASON whatsoever he needs to be playing anymore in this lost season.

Posted on September 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 341

Say what you want Luke, but I tend to think a streetcar transit system covering Downtown, Uptown and Midtown is much needed.

Posted on September 6, 2013 at 11:27 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 342

I agree Dre...I am as much for mass transit as the next guy. It just seems to me to be a waste of money and time to rebuild something that already existed. like Ben said, Mpls had one of the best streetcar lines on the planet.

Its a shame when your first play of the game is an error...a play that should have been an easy out (referring to tonights game against Toronto).

Posted on September 6, 2013 at 7:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 343

Was that game not a microcosm of the last three seasons? Twins have first and third with one out early in the game and hit into a double play. Blue Jays have two outs and bases loaded and get two straight hits to score four runs. Bottom of the 9th in a one run game with a 3-2 count and one out they swing into a strike 'em out, throw 'em out double play to end the game. Their starting pitching the last three years has bee AA at best, but there is more to their losing record than just horrible starting pitching.

Posted on September 6, 2013 at 10:14 PM by terry Highlight this comment 344

I know terry. I know. I almost don't know why I'm going tomorrow night. Well I get to sit in a beautiful ballpark for the last time this season.

Posted on September 6, 2013 at 10:35 PM by luke Highlight this comment 345

I'm thinking of going to tonight's game, mostly to get the 'TC' earbuds they're giving away. :-)

Posted on September 7, 2013 at 08:29 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 346

That must have been an added "get butts in the door" promotion. Not listed on the pocket schedule

Posted on September 7, 2013 at 12:23 PM by luke Highlight this comment 347

Not a great showing tonight. Two big homeruns given up in the first inning. When I left it was 7-1...and they were still playing

Posted on September 7, 2013 at 9:07 PM by luke Highlight this comment 348

Answer me this: Why do the players "let Target Field get to them a little bit"? Gardy said this the other day about the players' mental approach to hitting at home. Other players from other teams and Jim Thome when he was here didn't complain they just hit the ball over the fence in any part of the ballpark. Is'nt it time somebody told the players on the Twins to quit being babies and just hit. Of course the obvious answer is that we simply need more players that can with some power.

Posted on September 7, 2013 at 9:53 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 349

Never understood all the complaining about hitting at Target Field. The only players it seems to bother are the Twins.

Posted on September 7, 2013 at 11:25 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 350

The tall out of town scoreboard in right center turns a few home runs into doubles, but it doesn't turn them into outs. The ballpark isn't the reason so many Twins are hitting in the .220's.

Posted on September 8, 2013 at 10:50 AM by terry Highlight this comment 351

Had tix to the game but was saved by Tom Rush.

Posted on September 8, 2013 at 11:49 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 352

Vikings defense looked about as solid as that e-pulltab financing plan for their stadium. Meanwhile, back at Target Field the Twins had a 1st and 3rd nobody out situation late in a scoreless game and ... well you know how that turned out.

Posted on September 8, 2013 at 3:15 PM by terry Highlight this comment 353

jorge-
Isn't the NFL's loan to the team interest free? Even if I'm remembering that correctly (not a guarantee) the fact is the details of how the Vikes would pay for their portion were not secret and should have been known to anyone paying attention. Those complaining about it now are either being disingenuous, are covering for the fact that they didn't understand how the deal worked when it got signed, or (as you note) are trying to stop a ship that has already sailed.

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 09:54 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 354

Now 0-2 this year at TF. Twink set new club record for longest home winning streak. Was at the game Saturday as was offered free tickets. Tickets were in the grandstand. Ended up behind home plate about 1/2 way up. Lots of Jays fans. Did my usual show up around the 3rd inning. Wife wanted to stay at Cowboy Jacks! Turns out we should have. By the way great happy hour even on game days. 8 drinks and a big old plate of 4 meatloaf sliders for $21.50 plus tax!!! Place was hoping up there on the deck with a ton of Blue Jay fans there also. I ran into about 4 different people up there willing to give free tickets to the game. The strive for 100 continues! Was so full from the sliders I didn't even need to stop at Holiday for the brats!

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 09:57 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 355

Whoops make that losing streak!

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 10:02 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 356

Over at MinnPost, Marlys Harris does some quick math to calculate just how much actual real money the Wilfs personally need to provide to the deal. The range she gets is between $3 million and $125 million.

It's interesting, and shows that the Wilfs' personal finances probably don't mean much to this deal -- a damning statement if ever there was one. In fact, it shows that pretty much any of us could probably be approved to do this deal because so much of it relies on other people's money.

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 12:07 PM by Rick 357

My wife and I went to yesterday's game and I have never seen Target Field so dead and diseased. It was a sad sight, that's for sure. It's only going to get worse as the end of the season approaches.

I know the Vikings played as well which doesn't help the attendance. They announced 29,000+ for the "attendance" (tickets sold) but it was more like 15,000 actual attendance. Even downtown Minneapolis seemed quieter than usual.

The crowd was dead from the very start and there was no atmosphere whatsoever. It's too bad because Albers pitched a great game and Dozier made some great defensive plays as well.

I don't know why Vavra held up Florimon at third base. When your team is struggling to score runs, you gotta be more aggressive than that on the bases. So in typical Twins fashion, they end up with runners on 1st and 3rd with no outs and can't get a single run in.

Also credit the Blue Jays coaches for putting on the RF shift while Doumit was batting because he grounded out a couple of times. Do the Twins ever put on shifts like that for opponents?

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 1:19 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 358

Did anyone else see the comment in Sid's section on Sunday that Dave St. Peter said the Twins are confident that they will have attendance of 30,000 through September...

Yeah...right.

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 1:50 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 359

Probably not too far off the mark since "attendance" has nothing to do with turnstile count.

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 2:10 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 360

This will certainly be interesting...

New Jersey judge rules Vikings owners must disclose wealth

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 2:39 PM by Rick 361

Forbes lays the situation out slightly differently, but the conclusion is the same: The relative wealth of the Wilfs is meaningless to whether they can/will uphold their end of the stadium deal.

Oddly, if the state and city were to act like the Wilfs did with their New Jersey partners, they might try all sorts of accounting tricks to even the score because their partners "just got too good of a deal".

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 4:53 PM by Rick 362

If its not detrimental to the stadium deal, then why are they getting investigated so tightly?

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 7:16 PM by luke Highlight this comment 363

Unless there are concerns that the Wilfs might drain the Vikings dry in order to pay off their lawsuit, I don’t understand how the personal net worth of the Wilfs enters into the whole stadium deal. After all, the state and city made this deal with the Vikings, and the team – not the Wilfs personally – will be responsible for holding up their end of the deal.

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 9:18 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 364

Well, after all of this rigamarole is over, the only chance that the Wilf family's finances could be a factor would be if they were somehow forced to sell the team to cover a judgement.

If that happened before significant construction on the stadium takes place (an exceedingly unlikely scenario), then the whole thing would be put on hold until a new owner affirmed the commitments made by the Wilfs. If there was any hesitation there, or if somebody thought it might work to their advantage, the whole thing could get rebooted.

This project has always been a race to see if it can get going before something fatal happens, and right now it looks unstoppable -- for better or worse.

As long as the Wilfs continue to own the Vikings this project will move forward, and that is because the deal isn't really with them so much as it is with the NFL and future revenue increases (which are completely independent of the Wilf family balance sheet).

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 9:51 PM by Rick 365

Luke, certain persons in government found themselves caught flat footed by the New Jersey lawsuit, especially the verdict and harshness of the judge's comments. So calling for an inquiry into the Wilf family's finances served somewhat as locking the barn door after the horses rode off. Don't get me wrong, such an inquiry makes absolute sense and ought to be completed. However, it occurred around eighteen months too late for me to view its motivation as anything but cynical and self serving on the part of those who demanded it.

I think Marlys Harris somewhat over simplifies the situation by basing the Wilf family's contributions on the assumption that revenue from PSLs and naming rights will go directly towards the stadium. Despite technically covering the costs, the team will almost certainly be financing its payments with accompanying interest. She also appears to make no consideration whatsoever for the taxes due on the income from PSLs and the NFL loan. It's not as simple as depositing a check and then writing another one.

Posted on September 9, 2013 at 11:20 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 366

Sad when the drama surrounding a new stadium deal for the Vikings s far more interesting than what the Twins do.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 01:23 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 367

Anyone at the game last night? The Twins announced 21,826 "tickets sold" but I bet actual attendance/turnstile count was more like 12,000.

By the way, that 21,826 was the smallest crowd ever at Target Field.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 07:35 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 368

Twins win a game at Target Field for what seems like the first time since the Eisenhower administration and the smallest crowd in the history of the ballpark was there to witness it. I guess that's the way things have gone these past three seasons.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 08:37 AM by terry Highlight this comment 369

Worker killed near the Saints new park construction site. Very tragic. Not sure if it has to do with the stadium construction or not. See link. I am sure more details will be emerging.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 08:59 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 370

I'm thinking about grabbing two tickets to Thursday's day game. Supposed to be a beautiful day.

And it occurred to me that there is no earthly reason why I should bother buying tickets from the team. Virtually every remaining game has 2,000+ tickets available on StubHub, most below face value, from STHs desperate to offset even partially their sunk costs. So I'd bet that paid attendance will hit the sub-20,000 mark for a game yet this season, which is sad.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 10:31 AM by BR Highlight this comment 371

BR, STH here willing to sell you two tickets in sec 214, or 4 if you really like!

Was still thinking about skipping out of work and going if i cant sell them, we will see.

But yes, no need to buy anything form the Twins rest fo the year, yo u will get great deals from craigslist and stubhub or maybe even the scalpers, but they all still seem delusional.

I have one game i am going to go to since my son really wants to go to one more (actually just eat food), and still 4 more i am trying to sell.

Looks like my group is in for one more year of Season Ticket punishment and we will renew.. i guess i am happy about it?

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 10:40 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 372

BR if you want a single ticket I still have it, in LC M. I'm going. It might cost you a $7 beer if you are so inclined.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 10:58 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 373

Having Twink tickets much like having T wolves tickets right now! You can't give em away for free.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 11:11 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 374

jctwins, $7 beer? where are you finding it that cheap?!

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 11:15 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 375

Yeah good point, I think I was rounding down. It's probably more like $8, though I am getting 10% off with my Sweet Spot card! I learned in my renewal package I've saved $120 this year, which means I've spent $1,200? I hope not, that seems really high...

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 11:28 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 376

Next years schedule is up on the Twins site.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 12:02 PM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 377

2014 home games by month

April- 14 games, 2 weekend series
May- 14 games, 2 weekend series
June- 10 games, 2 weekend Series
July- 16 games, 3 weekend series, plus ASG
August- 12 games, 2 weekend series
September- 15 games, 2 weekend series.

Alot of Sept games again, but, i am shocked to see so many in July with the ASG in the middle of it all.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 12:18 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 378

I was really hoping the Twins would play @ Tampa in early April...oh well!

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 12:22 PM by tk Highlight this comment 379

Leave it to MLB to screw up the schedule just before the ASG.

The Twins are in Colorado the weekend before the ASG, which means I have to miss one or more games here and probably miss the ASG FanFest.

Unfreakinbelievable. I was coming out to Minneapolis on July 10th. The Twins play at Coors Field July 11th, 12th, 13th. Now what am I gonna do?

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 12:52 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 380

Only weekend series in KC is in April. Boo.

And they kept the home & away with the Brewers at Mon/Tues in Milw, Wed/Thur in Mpls, 1st week of June. Would be nice to take my son over there for the series but he will still be in school.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 1:27 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 381

Apparently MLB moved away from doing all the "rivalry" interleague series at the same time. Cubs/W Sox is in early May (with Mon/Tue & Wed/Thur format) while Twins/Brewers is in June. Haven't looked at other team schedules to see where they landed.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 1:48 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 382

Yep they have pretty much killed the Brew Crew rivalry with games mid week. Well at least they have 3 weekend series in July this year as opposed to the 1 this year.

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 1:57 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 383

I am going to post my schedule again until MLB recognizes it

6 games vs all AL teams not in div (60 games)
3 games vs all NL teams not rival (42 games)
6 games vs rival (6 games)
13 games vs division (52 games)

That leaves 2 games, either go to 160 game schedule or play the 2 extra games vs one opponent in each other division in your League based on standings of last year... BOOM balanced schedule.

Could even go so far as to determine home field in World Series by actual record!

i hate MLB sometimes. if anyone has a number an address i can send this proposal too let me know and i will do it...

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 2:07 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 384

I've harped about my preferred revisions before, recognizing that they are nigh on impossible:

- DH to all teams

- Two leagues, no divisions

- 11 games against each team in your league (154, 2-3-3-4, each 4-game series includes one scheduled double-header)

- 8 games against inter-league rival (3 series: 2-3-3)

Natural rivals as follows (league realignment as indicated):

NYY - NYM
PIT (AL) - PHI
BOS - ATL
BAL - WAS
TB - MIA
DET - TOR (NL)
MIN - MIL
CLE - CIN
CWS - CHC
KC - STL
TEX - HOU (NL)
ARI (AL) - SD
LAA - LAD
OAK - SF
SEA - COL

Playoffs:

- All playoff home field (incl WS) determined by record

- Top four teams in each league play full round-robin tournament (3-game series, altogether lasts 12 days)

- Two winners meet in 7-game WS

Posted on September 10, 2013 at 2:50 PM by Rick 385

No way is Seattle a natural rival for Colorado.

Based on the number of jerseys/shirts I see at Coors Field, the rival would be the Royals or the Twins. Maybe even the Astros. But Seattle? Nope.

Besides, Thrillhouse's plan has a better chance than Rick's, though neither are ideal. There is a 154 game proposal floating around that would work with the current alignments and is close to perfect - I'll have to see if I can find and post it.

However, any plan to shorten the regular season will be DOA with the owners.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 05:01 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 386

And the Pirates would NEVER move to the AL. :)

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 05:03 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 387

I like yours Rick, hell i like anything that is not what we have now. 19 divisional games is TOO MANY

Jfh, would love to see the 154 proposal, 8 less games is ok by me!

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 08:23 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 388

With that win last night the Twins avoid 100 losses. Sitting at 80 with 19 games to play.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 08:24 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 389

Sad news from the Saints ballpark construction site...

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 08:50 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 390

When divisions were created in 1969, a team played its own division rivals 18 times and the teams from the other division 12 times. That 3:2 ratio was about right. The current ratio is way too lopsided.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 10:11 AM by terry Highlight this comment 391

All I need to say is Red Sox-Yankees or Phillies-Mets in regards to the unbalanced schedule.

Especially with the addition of two wild cards, there is no longer a need to have so many divisional games in baseball. Add to that the fact that there is now interleague play during the entire season, there is just no need to play each divisional opponent 18-19 times.

The divisions/leagues are now balanced at 5 teams each/15 teams so bring back a more balanced schedule.

The 2014 Twins schedule is definitely an improvement from the 2013 schedule. Nice draw to get Yankees for four games at home over the 4th of July for a second consecutive year. Of the 5 years at Target Field, the Twins have hosted both Tampa Bay (2010 and 2011) and the NY Yankees (2013 and 2014) twice each on the 4th of July.

On the road Easter Sunday, Mother's Day, Father's Day and Labor Day with home games on Memorial Day and 4th of July.

Considering Target Field is hosting the All-Star Game, its pretty remarkable the Twins got 3 weekend home series' in July next season. Hard not to complain about that after this year, but than again, the Twins probably did not want to host Kenny Chesney (or another concert) in 2014 due to the All-Star Game.

MLB definitely botched the whole interleague rivalry thing and its sad. Regardless of how good or bad the Twins/Brewers were, fans always traveled well to both Milwaukee and Minneapolis. That does not happen when you have games played on Monday-Thursday, not to mention, while some schools are still in session in late May/early June. There are so many ways they can fix that "rivalry" series and make it more fan-friendly. Either alternate a 4-game series each year between cities or make it a 3-3 home and away by reducing the divisional schedule by 2 games. MLB always finds a way to mess things up. I always enjoy driving down to KC or Milwaukee for some weekend baseball.

Overall, a nice and balanced schedule in 2014. Nothing too intriguing other than the Yankees at home over the 4th of July. Win or lose, Twins fans always fill Target Field in July and August so no worries there. Look no further than the Astros and White Sox series this year...two of the worst teams in MLB and the Twins draw 100,000+ for each of those series' in August.

Of course the elephant in the room is the team's performance, simply win and fans will show up (or in the case of Twins fans, they will show up in June, July and August regardless of team performance)

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 12:32 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 392

Let's just hope they eliminate the weekday 12:10 starts when the times are released in about a month. No way on earth should baseball be played during the day when 98% of Minnesota works (the other 2% show up at TF for a 12:10 start on a Thursday).

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 12:54 PM by luke Highlight this comment 393

Luke,

The only games that do not have times on the schedule are the Saturday games. There are just as many 12:10 weekday games as there were last year.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 1:05 PM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 394

I count nine opportunities to skip work and watch outdoor baseball, not including the opening series and any holiday dates. I plan on getting in at least one long "lunch" and hopefully two or three. Pass the sunscreen please.

Embrace it Luke. Watching a game at Target Field is great. Watching a game at Target Field when most everyone else you know is working is even better.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 2:00 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 395

I took a day of vacation as did two friends for one of the 12:10 games this year. We had a fabulous time. One of the great delights was sitting outdoors at Kieren's before the game in shorts and tee shirts and watching all the folks dressed in business suits like we would be if we weren't going to the ballgame. Give yourself a treat Luke and take a day of vacation and go to one of those 12:10 games.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 2:14 PM by terry Highlight this comment 396

The weekday afternoon games aren't going anywhere and exist largely to comply with the union on giving participating players, home and visiting, ample travel and recovery time for following night games when teams have to make a long haul road trip.

The lack of times on Saturdays will be amended after Fox and Fox Sports 1 make their national TV selections.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 2:42 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 397

Jorge is right on why 12:10 games are here to stay. I like them, but then I have a more flexible schedule than most fans.

After this year, any schedule would have to be an improvement. But I think the 2014 schedule for the Twins is quite good, all things considered, with the exception of the Brewers series not being on a weekend.

It is nice having the Yankees for the July 4th series. But, if the 2014 Yankees consist of different players every week that many have never heard of and the Twins aren't much different, the only game that will matter will be the fireworks game.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 4:39 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 398

Stevie...watching a game at TF is indeed great, but the 12:10 starts are a pain in the neck for downtown workers. Traffic is terrible as it is downtown during the day without adding an extra 20,000 cars to the mix. And it also creates problems for rush hour transit.
Sorry, I just can't "embrace" all the excuses we use to get a 12:10 start for the Twinkies: its Tuesday. Its Wednesday. Its a "getaway" game. Its the 3rd of the month. The 15th of the month. Its the first Tuesday after the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring equinox...we'll do ANYTHING to get a day game...lol

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 5:25 PM by luke Highlight this comment 399

ESPN and MLB Network would never stand for a balanced schedule. No way would they stand by and watch the number of opportunities to ram the Yanks vs. BoSox down our throats.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 7:35 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 400

And don't forget the Cards. I swear those are the only three teams MLB Network knows: Boston, NY and St Louis

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 8:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 401

I wish people would quit going up to their cabins on the weekends. Dang people using the freeway on Thursday and Friday nights, pulling their boats and four wheelers, slowing down my commute...

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 8:54 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 402

No kidding Stevie. That's why I usually go to the casino early on Saturday morning...all the riff raff is off the road by then.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 9:33 PM by luke Highlight this comment 403

Sounds like Mauer had a pretty bad setback today. It's becoming apparent (and probably a good idea) that he won't play again this year. Hopefully this is not a Morneau-like situation.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 9:34 PM by Jeff T. Highlight this comment 404

If you get to work by 9 and leave after 5 you wouldn't see much of the Twins traffic would you? Average fan probably get's there around 11 or after. Games last on average around 3 hours. Most fans should all be gone by 4. Unless I'm missing something.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 9:36 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 405

Rick,

Just an fyi, I could not post unless I checked the "Hide Facebook box". Tried IE, Firefox, and Chrome. All gave an error until then.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 9:39 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 406

Wow....I can't believe I disagree with this crowd so much, given that I usually agree.

The extra games within the division build rivalries. We might not remember it, but we very much disliked the White Sox, Tigers, and Indians at various points (haven't had a reason to hate the Royals for a long time as our paths haven't crossed). You need to see those teams in your home park for 3 series to know those opposing players and not like them. I don't care for the constant Sox-Yanks on ESPN as well, but I just don't watch. I do want to know who to boo and laugh at for the Tigers.

We are one of the few teams left that play the afternoon getaway game. Sorry, but the "screwing up downtown traffic" is a joke. They are done by 3:30 most days they start at 12:10, so unless you MUST sneak out of work early that day, most of those folks are gone by 5:00 rush. If it really bothers you, work late or go get an extra beer after work. Or, let's ban Monday night football, since that screws us up. Or Friday night baseball since people want to come downtown. Or Tuesday nights when there is a Wolves pre-season game.

We somehow handled a day in August when we had the Vikings, Gophers, Twins, and the State Fair on the same day. Life didn't end. There was economic activity all over the place. Many people were happy, some were not. Many paid taxes to pay public sector employees. They rode underused public transportation. Maybe workers at those events made enough to buy an extra gun. Or to develop a new private business that will employ hundreds of workers without public subsidy at all.

I'm trying to cover all my bases :). Lighten up and get a Holiday hot dog. I hear they are good.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 9:47 PM by Lincster Highlight this comment 407

Actually...I work 6:30-3. So..12:10 start, three hour game, TF exits at 3:08...exactly the time I am pulling out of the parking ramp. Or the bus is held up because 32,000 people leave at the same time.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 9:52 PM by luke Highlight this comment 408

Well, I really don't have a dog in this fight (can we still use that phrase post-Vick?) but I'd venture to say that 12:10 games don't HELP evening rush hour traffic. Many of those people stick around downtown and eat an early dinner after the game or have some drinks at a downtown bar. So it does factor somewhat.

Posted on September 11, 2013 at 9:58 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 409

This stuff people get uptight about amazes me...

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 07:43 AM by tk Highlight this comment 410

Oh no, the Northstar is going to get more passengers when this plan goes through for the Target Field Transit hub!!! How ami ever going to deal with additional people??!?!!? See name for link.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 07:54 AM by tk Highlight this comment 411

Traffic on day games...

I work downtown til 4:30, some days 5:00. and The Twins games do have an effect. Even if they let out at 3:00... AT THE EARLIEST cause games avg just under 3 hours, people will linger, and take their time leaving. AND, even if every Twins fan leaves by say 3:45, there are still regualr downtown workers leaving between 3:00-4:00 too. so there creates a backup, and then there creates backups on the roads, like 35W and 394. so when i leave at say 4:30, i expect there to be about a 10-15 minute delay for me cause traffic is so backed up.

Add to that, more traffic, equals higher chance of fender benders, which then create gawker slow downs and my 10 minute delay becomes 30.

All that said, it is what it is. I am not bitter when Twins have afternoon games, i wish i could go more. Day games aren't going away, so i deal with it.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 09:35 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 412

trying to sell 4 tix for today, you think i will get any takers? i have had them on stub hub and craigslist for 2 weeks. not even a sniff yet.

i will walk down to game at 11:30, and if i can find any takers, i will jut go for 3 innings and enjoy a Cuban sandwich, i love those things.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 09:49 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 413

Jorge-
I didn't think about Fox Sports 1 covering baseball. Have you seen how/what they are doing? Taking the Saturday games? More?

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 10:49 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 414

I guess I could have searched first.

Rick, one more game a week that you won't be able to watch without cable.

From Wikipedia:

Major League Baseball – Beginning in 2014, FS1 will include Major League Baseball coverage, with regular season games (one per week) and select post-season games airing on FS1 beginning in 2014; as a result, MLB regular season coverage on the Fox network will be reduced to 12 weeks beginning in 2014.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 10:50 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 415

Does anyone here know the cheapest way to buy a real authentic jersey? I have 20% off at the Pro Shops, or at the ballpark. I'm guessing they are slightly less expensive at the Pro Shops? The 20% pretty much compensates for the lower pricing online, and then I can return it if it's easier.

I'm thinking of getting one before the official jersey has the All Star Patch on it. I don't like one year iterations if I'm going to lay out ~$150 for a jersey.

Yes, I already know I'm an idiot, but I like the way they fit.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 10:59 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 416

Lincster (#407) We are one of the few teams left that play the afternoon getaway game.

I don't think that is accurate. The Twins have played a number of early starts on the road this year. I checked a few schedules for next season and the Rockies, Phillies, Brewers, Mariners all show weekday afternoon games. Several others I checked do not yet show game times, but I think the Twins have played day games in Houston, KC, Det and Chi this season. The Rangers do not typically schedule them due to the daytime heat, and the Angels have usually not done it that I know of.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 12:13 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 417

So the A's-Twins game is the Free MLBTV game of the day.

No local TV and it's still blacked out per MLB rules...how pathetic.

Not that I wanted to watch, but I was going to check it out on my lunch break since it was the free game.

I see Diamond is back to his old ways of imploding early in the game and not lasting beyond 5 innings.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 2:09 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 418

8-1 i see... i should go find the scalper and give him his $10 back

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 2:39 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 419

Nobody has commented yet on the foul ball turned fair in last night's game. The ball was probably fair, but how do you overturn it once the play has been called dead? With the onset of replay for that kind of play next year, will the umps be more likely to just call close balls fair and see how it plays out before going to the replay? Trying to judge how many bases each runner gets is not the best course of action.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 420

Even in the NFL - the grand daddy of all this replay nonsense - if the ref blows his whistle the play is dead, even if it is an inadvertent whistle.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 7:14 PM by terry Highlight this comment 421

The mention of Fox Sports 1 brought to mind Sunday’s NFL coverage on FS1. Randy Moss is now a studio analyst on the network. I had a hard time imagining Moss taking such a gig – he’d have to smile and be reasonably pleasant. It was somewhat unsettling to see him on his best behavior.

Posted on September 12, 2013 at 9:51 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 422

Just saw this posted ...

2014 SEASON TICKET EXCHANGE
New in 2014, Season Ticket Holders will be able to exchange in advance tickets for an upcoming game in their package to a future game of the same or lesser tier. (Example: Exchange an upcoming "select" game for any future "select, value or extra value" game.) The exchange must be requested at least one week prior to the game date being exchanged and the game being requested. Your exchanged tickets will be in a similar or lower priced seating area based on ticket availability.

The number of exchanges will be limited based on package type:*

Full season accounts including Delta SKY360° Legends Club (81 games) can exchange up to 8 total games
40-game package holders can exchange up to 4 total games
20-game package holders can exchange up to 2 total games
Flex 40 accounts - not available
The number of exchanges is defined by the number of games exchanged regardless of the total number of tickets exchanged per game.

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 01:20 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 423

I guess that seems reasonable jfh...

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 10:49 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 424

Not a bad exchange program... judging from this year, i think i would exchange September games as soon as possible.

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 12:10 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 425

Two notes on continuing themes:
1)Cleveland has plenty of day games. I'm curious why they're playing a 1pm game at ChiSox today. Didn't think the Southsiders did Friday afternoon baseball!

2) The Foul-turned-fair play Wednesday night was really hard to believe. Umpire waves his hands and shouts foul, everything stops. How can you say three minutes later, "Oh, well, it was fair and we'll guess two of the runners woulda scored." Then again, that was o nly par for the course that night.

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 426

The ChiSox are hosting the Indians in the afternoon in deference to Jewish fans observing Yom Kippur whose evening will be occupied by religious services and family gatherings. The Mets are taking big heat for playing tonight and tomorrow afternoon against the Marlins. To give them a break, the afternoon game on Saturday is a make up that couldn't be reasonably scheduled on any other date.

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 2:20 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 427

I do some work on the linked site. The link is to an interview we did with Lester Bagley. Enjoy!

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 2:22 PM by moda Highlight this comment 428

fiesta - I wondered about that too and checked over on the W Sox message board. Yom Kippur begins at sundown tonight so this way the game will not interfere with any player (or fan) participation in the game.

Click name for an article on more about baseball and Yom Kippur, including a mention of Sandy Koufax skipping game 1 of WS vs Twins in 1965 to observe the day

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 2:20 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 429

Report is the IRS clears Zygs and the finances of him and his crooked minions. Zygs apparently CAN cover his financial obligations to the construction of USBS! Let the stadium construction begin folks! StadiumMagic baby!

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 3:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 430

Here's an article with an interesting, if unspoken, open issue:

'One potential future issue' in Wilf family's finances, says stadium authority

The issue? Well, the article couches it this way:

In situations where punitive damages are awarded, New Jersey law stipulates that the case be referred to the state attorney general and local prosecutor to determine whether a crime has been committed.

In plainer language, there's a possibility that somebody could go to prison over the whole thing.

I suppose that might gum things up a bit.

Posted on September 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM by Rick 431

Rick -- I get a kick out of the straws you grasp to hope this stadium doesn't get built with this financing plan. This is the shortest straw yet. Methinks you should just accept it, my friend.

Posted on September 14, 2013 at 9:32 PM by antifire Highlight this comment 432

I'm not an amazingly religious person antifire (let's call a spade a spade, I'm NOT religious) - but Amen to that.

Posted on September 14, 2013 at 9:52 PM by luke Highlight this comment 433

Read it however you will, but somebody out there is scared of this or it wouldn't be in the Strib (which is motivated to downplay anything negative). Somebody fed them that nugget, and it's just a little window into whatever is going on behind the scenes.

When watching stadium projects, half the fun is trying to figure out who is nervous and why. I find this little turn especially fascinating because it's a sign that somebody out there is putting pressure on someone, and at least somebody is biting their nails over the whole thing.

As I've said repeatedly, this deal is essentially with the NFL, not the Wilfs, and there's very little risk that it will be derailed. But today MinnPost reported this fascinating little reassurance from the league to the Stadium Authority:

(Peter Carter, lawyer with Dorsey & Whitney, who helped complete the due-diligence report) pointed out that the NFL pledged, in a letter to the authority, that it would require any future Vikings owner to hold to the agreements signed by the Wilfs.

Now, why would anybody even say that? Of course it's true, and basically has been assumed all along, so why say it? It just makes people more nervous.

It's a little like saying, "The fire suppression system in this building is really, really good. So don't even worry about a fire. Nope, don't worry about it at all. Fire just shouldn't even be on your mind when you're in this building." The only thing you can do at that point is wonder if maybe you should be worried about a fire.

Clearly somebody has been working through contingencies, imagining the worst case scenario, and planning for it, while simultaneously trying to keep everyone calm. That's just as it should be.

But this is very clearly a footrace to get shovels in the ground before some anti-stadium legislator figures out a way to slam on the brakes.

Posted on September 14, 2013 at 10:04 PM by Rick 434

DickBert: "It's hard to score first when you don't score at all."

Posted on September 15, 2013 at 2:21 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 435

Gee...isn't THAT profound sentiment? How long did it take DickBert to figure that little gem out?

Posted on September 15, 2013 at 4:03 PM by luke Highlight this comment 436

A humorous remark aimed at the team's lack of offense, perhaps? I doubt it was meant to be taken seriously.

Posted on September 15, 2013 at 7:12 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 437

To date, the Twins have the 5th worst year to year attendance drop off, almost 250K fewer than last year. They barely beat te Yankees. :)

See link for details

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 04:38 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 438

"Liriano and Morneau combine to keep [their team] atop Central".

Sunday's headline from MLB.

Sadly, [their team] is no longer the Twins, but the Pirates.

The closest we will get to the post- season is the Captain Morgan bar ...

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 04:53 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 439

And yet the Twins are better than 13 other teams on average attendance. And that includes these teams contending for the postseason: Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Oakland, KC, Cleveland and Tampa.

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 08:09 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 440

The only reason the Twins rank as high as they do is the strong season ticket holder base...I am guessing most season ticket holders renewed their season tickets to get that "2014 All Star Game priority"

Let's start getting pumped up around here for your 2014 Minnesota Twins season!! Renew those 2014 season tickets today to get that All Star Game priority and better yet, see players like Trevor Plouffe, Chris Colabello, Darin Mastroianni, Clete Thomas, Chris Parmelee, Josmil Pinto, Chris Herrmann, and Doug Bernier battle their tails off each and every night at Target Field!! Renew your season tickets today!!

The only positives I can take from 2013 at this time are rise and development of Brian Dozier and the continued success of Glen Perkins as the closer.

Why is no one ever held accountable in the Twins organization? Several assistant coaches got the blame last year and were let go, but yet Vavra, Ullger, Anderson and Gardenhire were brought back. Bill Smith got fired two years ago to only be replaced by his predecessor, Terry Ryan. Smith deserved to go but than they re-assign him to another role within the front office...typical Twins. Until ownership makes some philosophical changes, nothing will ever change with the Twins. Other than Buxton and Sano, what is the future for the Twins??

I am glad I did not renew this year and actually enjoyed going to games on a single-game basis for discounted prices.

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 12:52 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 441

Although baseball always has been and always will be very walk up ticket sales oriented, the bulk still go before opening day as season tickets, partial packages, groups, and single game sales. If you don't move that inventory in the off season, even a hot year of single game sales won't move the needle enough to make up for it. The Pirates in particular will see big gains in 2014 due to their 2013 performance.

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 1:38 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 442

While I know I shouldn't, I think I'm going to have to pull for the Bucs the rest of the way...Morneau deserves to be on a contending club, and I think he's got a good chance for a ring this year.

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM by luke Highlight this comment 443

Until today, I did not know that both Dave Winfield and Paul Molitor each recorded their 3,000th hits on this date, September 16 in 1993 and 1996 respectively. I always thought they were different days.

Pretty sad the Twins do not acknowledge Winfield's hit on their fan calendar although they have Molitor's hit listed.

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 2:21 PM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 444

I was pulling for the Purates anyway, but with Morneau on the team ow, it's even easier to do.

Very sad year for the Twins - I like Perkins, but having a strong closer doesn't matter much if you don't have many save opportunities.

As for ST renewals and group sales - the ASG will prop them up somewhat for 2014, but without some miracle n the field, I doubt very many of new STH sales will stick longer than a year and a good percentage of others will flee. Then the front office will reiterate that the Twins are a small/mid market team that simply can't compete with the A's, Orioles, Rays or Pirates, so they will have to raise ticket prices to compete.

STHs with average seats will punt and just buy I tickets on the secondary market as interest allows. Not gong to be a Marlins type death spiral, but won't be pretty.

Look at the STH renewal packet this year. Take out any ASG reference. How many of you would have been enticed to renew after reading the resulting text?

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 4:21 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 445

Jfh - the Twins are in the kind of spiral you get when you flush your home toilet. It goes round and round and round before disappearing down the drain. The Marlins represent one of those heavy duty toilets that you flush and everything just disappears with a roar.

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 4:28 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 446

Is anybody looking to dump tickets to Saturday's Gopher football game?

Posted on September 16, 2013 at 11:16 PM by Rick 447

Is anybody looking to dump tickets to the Vikes Final Reg Seas Game at the Dumpty??

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 06:24 AM by luke Highlight this comment 448

LaVelle Neal pointed out this morning that the Twins have either been shut out or held to only one run a whopping thirty times this year. And they're in the league that employs the designated hitter.

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 07:14 AM by terry Highlight this comment 449

I was watching Monday Night Football last night, suddenly remembered that the Twins were on. Flipped over to FSN, glanced at the scoreboard: Twins down 5-0, bases loaded, two out in the bottom of the first. Flipped back to MNF, I had already seen enough of the Twins game to know it was a total loss...

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 08:28 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 450

Sat in my seat last night to watch the Rockies play the Cards. Looked up t the out of town scoreboard, saw the Twins losing 7-0 in the first. Figured the scoreboard operator goofed.

Wrong. Wow. Has to be the Twins most embarrassing game in a long time. I didn't even bother to skim through it when I got home.

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 08:30 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 451

Rick, maybe just wonder around the stadium a bit, I'm sure you could buy one for $5 bucks or something. They even check after halftime going in or out of there? Kill was passing out free tickets last week. Course is Kill back on his feet again?

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 09:49 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 452

Rick- Are you just looking for a pair? I can ask around. What are you looking to pay?

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 09:52 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 453

Looking for three, GoAUpher, and I was excited when I saw prices around $15 on StubHub (which turn out not to be available in quantities of three). Less excited by $20 -- the difference being our concession money.

I realize that I may be out-priced by the market here, but thanks for checking.

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 1:26 PM by Rick 454

Rick-
You're in luck. Check the link in my name. The U and the Epilepsy Foundation of Minnesota are partnering up in the wake of Jim Souhan's "Coach Kill is as good as having a seizure as he is at winning Big Ten games" column. They are giving away free tickets as part of that.

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 2:30 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 455

Good for the Epilepsy Foundation and the U! They are taking an ignorant column and turning it into a teaching moment. I was really taken aback by Souhan's column Sunday. Whether coaching is a threat to Jerry Kill's long term health is a decision for him and his doctors to make - not sports columnists. And if his medical condition does not prevent him from doing the things a college coach must do, it seems the ADA would prohibit discrimmination on the basis of that medical condition.

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 2:39 PM by terry Highlight this comment 456

Wow! Thanks, GoAUpher! More snacks for us -- and proud to support epilepsy education.

Souhan is a smart guy, but he should have put that piece on ice for about 24 hours. Had he done so, he would have realized that Kill's seizures aren't the source of woe for this team, and as such really have no place in a discussion about what needs to be done.

In other words, even if Kill is not the right guy for this position, it's not because of his epilepsy, and it is really not appropriate to bring discussion of his condition into that context.

As for recruiting, there are many intangible factors when players make decisions on where to go. One of those is certainly who their head coach will be, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that some player somewhere decided not to come to the U because of Kill's condition. But it's hardly a difference-maker in the program, and to suggest as much without something concrete is really just to kick a man while he's down.

Good for the U and the Epilepsy Foundation Minnesota to harness this as an awareness-raising moment.

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 3:09 PM by Rick 457

Glad I could help!

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 3:17 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 458

In today's Twins news -

Denard Span extended his career-best hitting streak to 27 games, matching Michael Cuddyer for the longest streak in the majors this year.

Oh. Wait. That should be filed under today's news for FORMER Twins, next to the Morneau, Nathan , Hardy and Hunter files. Can't wait to see the future articles that come as a result of the incredible front office reigns of Bill Smith and Terry Ryan.

(I just watched the first inning from last night's game)

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 3:22 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 459

The whole first inning?

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 4:43 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 460

No, just the White Sox half. I already knew the Twins couldn't score any runs. :)

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 6:40 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 461

Span batting .284, .781 OPS
Revere batting .305, .691 OPS
Cuddyer batting .329, .924 OPS

That could have been our outfield, with Revere playing left where he should have anyway. Maybe this will all work out and Terry has done it before, but thinking about those bats plus no balls falling between right center and the left field line makes you wish a little bit. Now, they still would have gone nowhere this year with the pitching (which is what they are trying to really build back), but it feels like we missed an opportunity to build this lineup back.

Hope Cuddyer wins the NL batting title! He does seem like a genuinely outstanding guy, and doing the same things in the community in Denver that he did here.

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 6:50 PM by Lincster Highlight this comment 462

Great photographer too! Check out his page on Flickr. His screen name is Fivebball.

Posted on September 17, 2013 at 9:27 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 463

B1G gopher football tickets go on sale at 9 a m. Surprised by his much the going rate is, starting at $60!

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 12:03 AM by tk Highlight this comment 464

Gopher football is in its third week. They just started selling tickets? Or is that for conference games??

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 06:16 AM by luke Highlight this comment 465

luke-
They just opened up single game sales for conference games. Up until now you had to purchase them as part of a two-pack with a non-con game.

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 07:31 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 466

And if his (Jerry Kill's) medical condition does not prevent him from doing the things a college coach must do...

Things like being on the sideline during games?

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 08:37 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 467

F_T_K~
A head FB coach's job goes WAY beyond that. Also, the continuity of Kill's staff means that the other coaches can fill that gap pretty well. Whether or not any absences will be a problem in the W/L column will play out over time. And the ultimately that's the true measure and something that Kill has embraced.

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 10:07 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 468

I know that, GoAUpher. It's just that being on the sidelines on game day is by far the most visible thing that a head coach does.

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 2:06 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 469

" --- by far the most visible thing that a head coach does."

So ----- what Gardy mostly does is eat seeds?

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 2:19 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 470

Was able to get 8 together for the Badgers game. Was surprised how much upper bench seats are $65 + $5/ticket. EVen more surprised the Badger tickets prices are among the lowest prices for Gopher home games. Upwards of $95 for upper end zone bench seating for Nebraska. Badgers always travel well, but I'll take the price, even if it is still high.

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 4:56 PM by tk Highlight this comment 471

Ahhh gotcha. Thx GoAUpher

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 5:42 PM by luke Highlight this comment 472

You don't hire a coach for looking good on the sidelines. You hire him to build a program and win.

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 5:42 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 473

tk-
This is definitely a year when the U can and is going to try and maximize single game profit off the strong home schedule.

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 5:43 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 474

I'd say GoAUpher! I guys I could have clarified forget, I'm sure they could have asked more for Badgers on what they are asking for other games. Maybe because it's later November, but still would have paid higher, especially with it looking to be a decent Matchup with gophers improving.

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 6:30 PM by tk Highlight this comment 475

*I guess I should have clarified more....

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 6:56 PM by tk Highlight this comment 476

I realize we live in a PC society now, so the world at-large will say that Kill's medical condition should be untouchable. However, when your school has the reputation of being one of the weakest university athletic programs in the FBS it doesn't do the organization any favors by having a head coach who looks weak when these episodes happen on the sidelines. Perception is often everything, and Jerry Kill most likely isn't the next Nick Saban. If the program doesn't make visible and measurable strides in the next two years it might be best to part ways.

Posted on September 18, 2013 at 8:09 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 477

I get your point there TTH however I have to disagree. As someone who is a lifelong, die-hard Nebraska Cornhusker fan I can say that a "strong" looking coach doesn't help that much. Bo Pelini is a good example and considering the recent events, I don't believe I need to say more. There is a lot that the public isn't seeing with those news stories about him, mainly for instance that the news reporters he told to 'f-off' have been (almost overcritical) of Pelini and would take lyrical jabs at him left and right. Add on top of that, the supposed "Greatest Fans in Football" we're booing and had nearly half-emptied the stadium before the comeback started in that Ohio State game. Mix in the frustrations from the game, needling reporters after and such and you have a recipe for disaster. He definitely shouldn't have said that though...but I digress.

Fact is Pelini is a solid coach. Kill is a solid coach. They deal with some pretty big recruiting issues such as "what kid wants to go to flyover country to play football?", "what kid wants to come to play football in a state with such harsh winters?" and especially play for schools that haven't been relevant in decades? Those are far larger factors than a coach's sideline prominence. Obviously, these guys aren't going to change the team into an Alabama overnight, so people have to be patient. I get a pretty good laugh out of fans (especially in Minnesota) who want to turn the program into a coaching carousel because of implied entitlement or as if they are owed it because of the name of the school and its history, success or something like that. Not saying that you are going that way TTH but it sure seems that way with many i talk to. Hell, many minnesotans would love to have a season average record of 10-4 that Pelini has at Nebraska but Husker fans have been calling for his head since season 2 because they want more. Everyone wants more but are not patient enough to wait for it. There is a reason they say "build a program" when hired and not "guarantee titles".

Kill in my opinion has already made visible and measurable strides and I believe he is in good company to continue to do so. We have to remember the hurdles he has to face, if not the biggest being that he is trying to build a program in one of the hardest conferences to do so (SEC notwithstanding) and just be patient for him. After all Tom Osborne, believed to be one of the greatest ever, took over an awesome roster from Bob Devaney (a stellar coach in his own right) and had good years but it took him nearly 20 years to actually take the program to the next level and win a national title.

Kill started will faaaaar less and we are expecting those kind of results in his first handful seasons? Right.

So while I do agree with you mostly, i think Kill is doing a good job and making forward strides but there is more patience required and we should give him plenty of time.

Posted on September 19, 2013 at 08:47 AM by jared Highlight this comment 478

tk- The issue is that they don't want to completely price out Gopher fans who are noticeably more fickle than Badger fans.

Posted on September 19, 2013 at 09:45 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 479

TTH-
Yea...no. The metric that matters is wins and losses, not a nebulous perception metric that can be made into whatever any one person wants it to be. The issue facing Gopher football is the history of weak program support and mediocre results. Not a coach who "looks weak", especially since he only "looks weak" to people with a really effed up sense of macho.

That's not PC, that's common sense combined with not being a dick.

Posted on September 19, 2013 at 09:49 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 480

TTH,

I'll accept that Kill's condition "doesn't do the organization any favors". It likely provides no advantage to how the program is perceived (although that could be disputed because, as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity).

But I think that the perception of weakness because of epilepsy is exactly what the Epilepsy Foundation is trying to correct, and that is the opportunity of this moment. I'm no expert in seizure disorders, but a quick read through the FAQ on the foundation site makes it clear that seizures can happen at any time, and the root cause is often unknown. Stress can make it worse, but not necessarily.

So I suspect that Kill's doctor (and probably his family) would prefer if he didn't have a job where situations of sudden extreme stress are routine, but the reality of epilepsy appears to be that no such situation is required in order to trigger a seizure. It can happen at any time, with or without an apparent trigger.

As such, there's a real possibility that he'll never suffer another sideline seizure, that the next one will happen while sitting at his desk or watching TV at home. Come to think of it, we don't know how often he has them, or when they typically happen, or even if there is a pattern at all.

I also agree that perception is reality, and that the world perceives Kill, and anyone who suffers from a seizure disorder, as weak. But that isn't accurate or fair. And that's the point.

Well, that plus the fact that if his program doesn't continue improving, he will need to be replaced -- with or without sideline seizures. And despite the modest advances he's made so far, I don't know of anyone who thinks he'll still be coaching here in 10 years. But unless it's his choice, let's hope that the change has nothing to do with his unfortunate medical condition.

Posted on September 19, 2013 at 11:42 AM by Rick 481

Stay classy, GoAUpher. I don't think questioning the perception of Kill's condition to potential college recruits - and therefore success - is being a dick. So much of revenue-producing sports, pro or college, is colored and steered by perception. It's a natural question.

Posted on September 20, 2013 at 12:59 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 482

TTH-
That's not what I thought was the dickish comment. Saying someone looks weak for having a seizure was what I was talking about. I mean, really?

Posted on September 20, 2013 at 1:24 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 483

The team stinks and the season is nearly over. But look on the bright side, I can still get pretty pictures!

(image disabled)

As a sidenote: Anyone having issues with ticket nazi ushers lately? Here is a link to the photo to view large and read a couple of my run-ins with ticket 5-0 and another from a Twins photog who must not have had his credentials that day.

Posted on September 20, 2013 at 3:11 PM by jared Highlight this comment 484

Since April you have had the ability to upgrade your seats on game day. There really is no excuse for calling ushers nazis when you have an official means of upgrading.

Now if you feel the cost of upgrading is too high. That's something to take up with the Twins, not the ushers.

Posted on September 20, 2013 at 4:25 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 485

Very nice pic Jared. You do have quite a talent for getting just "the perfect shot".

Dave - very true. Isn't the upgrade thing with the At the Ballpark app? Pretty cool app...I download it every season. But with attendance lagging, do the TF ushers REALLY care if you switch your seats? I mean, seriously?

Posted on September 20, 2013 at 4:35 PM by luke Highlight this comment 486

I understand their purpose and I don't disagree with it in theory. But in application, it is quite ridiculous and excessive. I don't often try to do the free upgrade and I am okay with enforcing it on most occasions.

But when I have a ticket for a section that is nearly empty already and its the 6th inning (and the team is horrible, playing another horrible team, in September) and you are hassling me for my ticket while my hands are full of food, that's when I get upset. I sorta stand by my original description, only "sorta" because it partially mis-directed.

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 12:00 AM by jared Highlight this comment 487

If the Twins are really putting the hammer down and hassling people for ticket stubs (which would be a new development at Target Field), then they are making a classic mistake.

It comes down to this: When your product is terrible, be very nice to your customers. Right now, good will is the only thing this organization has going for it.

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 12:55 AM by Rick 488

Rick, that comment makes me wonder if the Twin's "product" is Target Field itself, or the team they put on the field.

Maybe they think that if the ballpark is nice enough, they can put a AA/AAA team on the field and people will still be happy.

Seven more home games in another 90+ los season. I will probably try to attend one more game this year.

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 07:36 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 489

"Maybe they think that if the ballpark is nice enough, they can put a AA/AAA team on the field and people will still be happy."

Maybe?

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 09:03 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 490

Of course TF is the Twins product. If they were still at the Holy Hell Humpty Dump, they'd be getting about attendance of about 2,000 a night by now. The ballpark is still the draw, even four years later

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 09:32 AM by luke Highlight this comment 491

The sad part is that we will likely have a miserable team again next year. Having the ASG to sell will be deemed sufficient.

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 09:52 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 492

I'm eagerly awaiting the press release announcing Gardy's five-year extension.

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 11:00 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 493

I'm eagerly awaiting the press release announcing Gardy's five-year extension.

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 11:00 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 494

When it comes to seat hopping, "be very nice to your customers", can mean two different things. The $20 seat guy is happy when he hops to a $90 section. On the other hand, the guy who paid $90 for his seat may not be happy with $20 guys sitting around him.

Your being nice to one guy while potentially alienating others. Which is probably one of the reasons they put the hammer down on hopping into the Legends Club.

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 7:29 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 495

On the other hand, the guy who paid $90 for his seat may not be happy with $20 guys sitting around him.

This reads very elite-ist, snobbish, and ridiculous.

If we are examining that social angle (sorry if I go the wrong direction), then in my experience, money doesn't change the social atmosphere. It's just a different kind of douche. Same dirty jokes, just one of them does it while drinking a Bud and the other does it while wiping his butt with $20s...I mean, drinking Champagne from padded seats.

I will say that being a $20 guy myself, that comes off as a bit biased. I can afford to be, say, a $35 guy but since I share with a friend who uses the tickets but hardly ever sits in the seats (he is a ballhawk) and doesn't want to pay much to do so I don't mind going a little cheaper. I have frequently sat in the expensive seats. My $20 friend often gets Champions Club and Dugout Box for super cheap and is also frequently amongst the $90 people. Neither one of us would generally be classified as bad $20 people, if we are even judged in that class. And while we can't possibly be the standard for the $20 people as a whole, we are an example that good, well mannered, baseball-minded people do sit in those seats.

And so while I understand your statement, it therefore then falls under "that is the $90 dude's problem" if his snobbery allows him to judge in such a manner.

This is all not to mention the fact that at this time of the season, with this kind of team the secondary ticket market for that $90 dude's section is pretty wide open to many $20 types due to drop in prices for a given game. So he has to deal with it anyway. And unless he finds someone sitting in his seat, he cant really tell who is who in most cases. Grays the line of who really is "riff-raff".

I know what you are saying though. If the people are just vultures and are the annoying sort, it makes sense that you would want to find a way to get away...if that means you think paying a premium on your seats will do that. Its pretty hard to get away though.

Disclaimer: I probably could be a bit more eloquent in this statement with a little better effort.

Posted on September 21, 2013 at 9:17 PM by jared Highlight this comment 496

Ballpark seats are a lot like airplane seats these days. Nobody knows who paid what. Somebody paid $30 for their "$12" seat, and somebody paid $30 for their "$90" seat. And a whole bunch of people (say who work for big companies or have friends who are STHs) didn't pay anything for their seats.

If I get to my seat -- the one listed on my ticket stub -- and somebody else is sitting in it, then I care. But other than that, I don't care, and neither does anybody else.

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 12:06 AM by Rick 497

jared, I wasn't coming at it in any particular angle. Just pointing out there is more than just the seat hopper involved. There could be any number of reasons why the $90 guy might be alienated. The why isn't relevant, the fact that he could be is.

Rick, everyone's moral compass is different. I can assure you, there are people who care.

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 01:47 AM by Dave Highlight this comment 498

But if Mr. $90 has played by the rules and ponied up the cash to sit close to the field, I don’t blame him for getting a bit perturbed when someone else who paid $20 slips into the seat next to him. I would tend to feel like a sucker if I were him. If sneaking down close works for everybody else, what’s the value of that $90 ticket? Everyone could simply buy up the low-end seats and upgrade. That would leave a lot of high-end seats unsold but filled, which would certainly hit the Twins in the pocketbook, and as it’s slowly dawning on us all, the Twins are out to maximize profits like every other business.
It has nothing to do with snobbery or class distinctions. It has nothing to do with who’s the more dedicated and knowledgeable fan. It’s about making sure that the folks willing to spend the money for premium seats continue to believe they’re receiving access commensurate with what they paid. It’s about making sure that their purchase brought with it value that isn’t simply handed out to others who paid less than 25% of what they did. If they didn’t, what would prompt them to spend the same amount of money a second time?

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 08:05 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 499

I don't have a dog in the fight if someone moves into a truly empty seat in my section. I do get irritated, however, when I go to the concession stand or the rest room and come back to find someone sitting in my seat.

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 08:24 AM by terry Highlight this comment 500

Gotcha Dave, I just read it that way then.

I follow you Winona, and I understand. I would have that though process go through my mind as well. But I also tend to be very laid back and not let things like that bother me, so I may be more of an exception but it would be a fleeting thought at best.

In my instance though, I was merely playing the angle as I read it, which was snobby and setting up class distinctions (even though I knew that is not what Dave's point was). I don't believe that it has nothing to do with those and I think that we all can agree that to some degree it does. Obviously more than others but it does come in to play.

I think keeping the integrity of the ticket price is important but the majority of the people sitting in the expensive seats are season ticket holders and with that there is an inherent risk of losing that value already. If you are watching some "feel good games" in september for a last place team, then in my opinion, you have already lost ticket value significantly. Being able to buy a ticket on the secondary market during this time of year for a large reduced rate devalues the STH seat. Not the person sitting in it. Obviously the free upgrade seats devalue it but I don't believe that much more than the former examples...however if you can prevent that, fine. When applied to me trying to do a free upgrade, I understand the frustration and am willing to accept the consequences but we have to remember there is a simple work around and it is unavoidable.

So coming full circle, my main complaint came from [i]when I had[i] tickets in the section and was hounded like crazy. Now it's my fault for not having my ticket with me but also given the circumstances of the season, the circumstances within the game and the circumstances within the moment (the food one anyway), I deemed it to be excessive.

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 09:52 AM by jared Highlight this comment 501

Isn't there a ethics/honesty issue? Are not seat jumpers essentially "taking" something which does not belong to them?

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 1:52 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 502

I currently have been sharing a 20 game plan with 2 other people. We each paid $200 for 5 games each, 2 seats in section 129, Row 6. We were able to sell the other 5 games to friends, family, and co-workers. We may be losing one of the people that went in with us this past year. We would be looking to fill for sure one other spot or potentially 2. Breakdown again is 5 games, 2 seats, section 129 row 6, for $200. We have discussed going to a 4 seat plan, so cost would adjust to $400 each. If you are interested, please let me know.

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 2:38 PM by jskatt21 Highlight this comment 503

Ben - while that's true in theory, I can't believe it's "taking" when the seats have been vacant for several innings. If we're looking at the top of the 4th and the seats are still vacant, I see no ethical issue there. If the ticket holders haven't shown up by the 4th inning, MLB rules basically say you've missed the game anyway (it's a "game" by the middle of the 4th, in regards to rain rules). So, no show, I say it's fair game.

I needed some corroboration, I read in Walters' column today in the St Paul fishwrap that Minneapolis is considering a bid to host a BCS National Championship game. Now that it's going to a playoff system, sounds like the title game could be a similar bid process to a Super Bowl. ESPN confirms this - clicky.

Walters DID say that the economic impact of a national title game could be worth up to $90 million for the city. Now if we can get a Super Bowl and/or a Final Four...

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 4:00 PM by luke Highlight this comment 504

At the rate we are going, I guess we won't ever know what the economic value for a World Series is at Target Field ...

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 5:30 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 505

A "game" by the middle of the 4th inning Luke? So if the home team is down and the game is cancelled for rain after the top of the 4th, the game is over?

Might want to look into the rule a little further buddy.

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 6:06 PM by FD Highlight this comment 506

Been seat jumping the last 3 years. Never had a problem. Buy the cheapest ticket and sit where you want. Don't forget the Holiday dogs and brats and the rum! Rum is about the only thing that helps you make it thru a game these days. How bout dem Vikqueens? LOL!

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 6:24 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 507

FD, upon further review, the losing team must have five full innings of at bats. So, it could either be called complete in the middle of the 5th if the visiting team is losing, or bottom of the 5th if the home team is losing. Thanks for the correction :).

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 7:05 PM by luke Highlight this comment 508

Have done a fair amount of seat jumping in these four seasons at TF and this year was the only time I've been ticket-checked.

I don't begrudge them this; I didn't pay for that section and I'm not entitled to be there. But that won't keep me from moving down once in a while.

Buying a season ticket is an exercise in risk management. The risk being that the value of that ticket will go up or down. The people who buy the expensive seats take a bigger risk. The cheapskates like me with my $13 seats in Skyline view, on the other hand, take a much lower risk (though even those seats are worth about $3, if that, in September of a losing year).

My risk paid off the first year when I could see my excess seats for a good price, but my risk was a bad bet this year. Still I got enough value out of it to make it worthwhile.

If the team wants to keep me out of the $90 seats I guess I can't complain. But if I'm the $90 seat guy I guess I won't really care if someone who paid less sits next to me. I've already lost the value of the seat (can't sell it for what I paid, not getting $90 worth of value), what's the dif? And it's more fun to sit in a full section. As long as the seat-hoppers don't take MY seat, who cares?

By the way I've noticed I've been actually less inclined to seat-hope as this season wore on. Sometimes it's more important to have the room to stretch out than it is to be close to the action.

Posted on September 22, 2013 at 8:21 PM by ClarkAddison Highlight this comment 509

2010 is becoming such a distant memory.

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 07:17 AM by tk Highlight this comment 510

My take on seat jumping is you need to be smart about it. Given the manner in which folks meander through the stadium and often arrive late, no attempt at a major improvement should come prior to the 4th inning. When looking to improve, it's best to not be too ambitious. Always act like you belong and know what you're doing. Don't sit in a place that's overly crowded, but don't end up being the guy sitting alone in a sea of seats that have been empty for innings on end, you don't blend in well.

Regarding the Twins being strict about sections 108 to 120, they need to not be strict to the point of being oppressive, but I get that they need to protect their bottom line to an extent. In the late 1990s and early 2000s when the bottom fell out and no new stadium appeared likely for ages or at all, seat jumping at the Dome became a frequent thing. The Twins legitimately suffered from season ticket holder drop off due to people saying "Why am I paying 81 games for seats in section 125 to see horrible baseball when people from upper right field are sneaking down here for the same seats at bottom dollar?" At some point they do need to take care of those people in the prime areas.

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 11:23 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 511

Are you certain that was the reasoning behind the STH dropoff? I would have thought it was more about team performance (we never did make it past being Central Division Champs) and the lack and loss of hope for a new ballpark back then. Section 125 at? The seats behind home plate, that didn't even FACE home plate? Yeah I would have dropped too if there was zero hope, at least at that time, of getting a new ballpark where seats actually faced the field.

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM by luke Highlight this comment 512

I learned my seat jumping back at the old met. Bought the $2 3rd base bleacher seats and by the 3rd inning was sitting right behind home plate in the box seats! I had a million excuses if asked by the usher when moving into the box seats. Will Mr Whipple aka Gardy get 3 more wins before being shown the door next year. He is stuck at 997! LOL!

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 1:49 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 513

I tend to look at seat jumping as a morally neutral endeavor. My kid and I do it frequently. Makes him want to go and STAY at games more. So, if I want to try it, and I'm successful, and that causes me to stay an extra couple of innings and buy another beer at an otherwise meaningless game (maybe say to myself, "Hey, these seats are nice... I'm gonna get a partial STH package here next year"), then the team ends up "winning." If it causes other STHs in that section to get upset, feel cheated, and drop their STs, then the team "loses." I have a hard time believing that the team knows which is more likely, though. So, in general, I agree with Rick - the team should err on being customer friendly.

That said, I think it makes sense for ushers to check tickets in the nicer sections. You can still get into sections 108-120 by carrying food and getting in line with others mid-inning. Make it look like you belong there. Wait for the at bat to end and then go with the flood of people down the stairs. They're not checking everyone's tickets at that point because it would hold everyone up.

For the actual $90 dugout box seats, with access to their own concession area? They should check those tickets. Using the exclusive, extra facilities is part of what you're paying for in those sections, and it's easier and more enjoyable when the place isn't packed. Why allow others to freeload there? Even as a seat jumper, I'd be annoyed if I owned those seats and saw anyone and everyone allowed to come in and fill every available seat, making it crowded and less convenient and quick to use my exclusive concession stands and bathroom!

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 2:30 PM by BR Highlight this comment 514

My take on seat jumping... The exclusive areas are off limits. CC, LC, and sec 1-17. The rest should be within reason. If I go in the late innings and sit towards the middle/back of an empty section, don't hassle me.

I was at PNC Park a few years back and got busted in the bot 8 trying to go back to the seat I sat in during 1-7. I was down there for pregame pics, talked to some fans who suggested I sit next to them because "it's always empty." I had to get up and use the men's room by the 8th. The usher that busted me followed me around making sure I didn't go into the seats. (I had an upper level seat.)

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 3:26 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 515

Whether they want to admit it or not, the corporate sponsors are #1 priority for the Twins followed by season ticket holders. So if you are going to a game on a single-game basis and want to jump seats, be expected to show your ticket.

My friend gave up his Gophers football season tickets a couple of years ago because they kept offering promotions for $20 and $10 tickets, prices below which he was paying for his own season tickets.

It's a touchy subject because you want to keep the season ticket holders happy, but you also want to be fan friendly and fill the seats at the same time.

I will say if a seat is open after the 5th inning, who cares if someone seat jumps to those seats. Unless the person with the actual ticket shows up to those seats, there is no reason someone can't sit there after the 5th inning. And the Twins are usually down 3-4 runs by the time the 5th inning rolls around anyway :)

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 3:28 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 516

The Twins make it all but impossible to get into the Champion's Club without the proper ticket, and that's as it should be given the amenities that are provided for "free" with the purchase of that (non-free) ticket. They also take a very reasonable approach to Legends Club and suite access, as well as the seating areas within the moat, and the accessible seating areas (which, like a handicapped parking spot, should be strictly limited to those with the appropriate ticket).

Some would say that the same approach should be extended to all corners of the ballpark, and it's hard to craft a rational argument to the contrary. In the rational, non-emotional, perfect and perfectly fair world, everyone would sit (or stand) in the exact place listed on their ticket stub and nowhere else. Taken to the extreme: When SRO tickets are being sold, unless you have one, you don't belong there either.

What's more, in that mythical perfectly fair and rational world everyone would have paid exactly the amount listed on the ticket, and exactly the same amount as any other person sitting in the same pricing level section.

I think you could even make a rational case that buying a ticket to a Major League baseball game implies two teams of Major League caliber on the field. If one of those teams, say the home team, was not Major League caliber, as evidenced by being among the very worst in the Major Leagues and made up largely of players who were in the minor leagues just a few short weeks ago, a customer might be rationally (if not legally) justified in expecting a proportional refund on the cost of a ticket purchased before the season started, when the implied agreement was that the product on the field would be up to a certain level of entertainment value.

Doesn't take long for rationality to break down, eh?

Well, what we really have here is a problem of practical versus theoretical ethics. Most people, if you ask them, would say that seat-jumping should be at least discouraged, if not outright aggressively policed. That's the "theoretical" version. It makes sense. It's rational.

Like Ben, we are all likely to say that seat-jumping does actually represent a form of theft, even if only (for some) the moral equivalent of stealing paperclips. As Dave suggests, everyone's moral compass is different, and therefore we might disagree on the actual office supply being pilfered in that analogy, but even if we do not disapprove, we would likely all acknowledge that there is something inherently inappropriate in the practice, if not downright unethical. (Face it: Sometimes people try things just because they are inappropriate or unethical, just to see if they can get away with them.)

But, such theoretical considerations often evaporate when they meet the real world. That's the case when it comes to seat-jumping.

If people really cared as much as has been suggested, and they felt it strongly enough, then we wouldn't need ushers at all because we'd be checking one another's tickets and collectively tossing people who meandered. Or, at the very least, we'd be calling an usher at the first whiff that someone was sitting in the wrong section, even if it wasn't actually our own seat.

That doesn't happen, plain and simple. Nobody knows who is supposed to be sitting where, and if they care at all, it's in the theoretical realm and not in the practical one. And it's wasted energy because there's nothing that can be one about it anyway. Have you ever checked the ticket stub of the stranger sitting next to you? How about the guy who arrived in the fourth inning and sat down tentatively while looking around nervously?

So, in actual practice, if we care at all (still a possibility), and if we notice someone doing it, we don't do anything about it unless someone is being actively disruptive. And even then, it's the disruption we care about and not whether the person is in their actual assigned seat. Checking their ticket stub becomes a remedy, nothing more (and one not even very likely to be employed, if you've ever seen how they handle those things).

Further, I bristle at the notion that there is some sort of "$90 guy" and "$20 guy" who have different levels of sensitivity on the subject. What do people have in common by ballpark section that they would not also have in common with everyone else throughout the ballpark? I surely don't have to point out that rich people and poor people are pretty much just as likely to get drunk at the game, to buy a program, to score the game, to know the lead-off hitter's batting average, or have parked in the A, B or C ramp.

If you stand at gate 14 before a game, can you point out who the "$90" people are and who the "$20" people are? That would be an interesting experiment, and likely yield more information about the person doing the detecting than it does about anyone passing through the gates.

I've spent significant time in every corner of TF, and I can assure you that there is no pattern. None.

If you say that the "$90 guy" is someone who paid $90 for the ticket, and limit it to that, you've found the one and only thing by which people might be sorted, and it doesn't say anything about them beyond that. There is no reason to believe that they have any particular feeling about the other people at the ballpark, or those in their section, or the guy standing at the next urinal.

The problem for the Twins is one of balance. How do you make people feel like there is sufficient order, while also acknowledging that it's good customer relations to not be jerks about letting people upgrade as the game progresses?

Frankly, I think they've done it remarkably well in the past by basically allowing people to self-police and mediating disputes which arise. To suddenly crack down now when the team sucks, the games don't matter, and there is some real goodwill at stake, would be the height of short-sighted business practices.

This is exactly the wrong time to piss off the fans who buy the cheap tickets by taking away this little informal perk. This is exactly the right time to do as they've always done: Check tickets as people enter, nab the openly contemptuous or disruptive, and quietly look the other way on anyone else.

Ethics aside, this little perk is only available for those who want to try and exercise it anyway, which certainly isn't everyone. I, for one, can't enjoy the game if I'm sitting with my family in seats that could be reclaimed by their rightful owners at any moment. It's too distracting. It's also rude.

When I'm on my own, I take a different approach, and jump around a lot, mostly because I like to see what the view looks like in different places, and I don't like spending the whole game in one place. I consider nothing off-limits, and don't bother waiting until the late innings. I just stick to aisle seats in sparsely-populated rows, staying only an inning or so in one place, and always prepared to move at the first sign that a rightful owner is approaching. It's never been a problem, and I can't remember the last time I had to dig out my ticket stub, either here or in any other Major League park.

I suspect that, with smaller crowds, and ushers at TF are getting much more bored, and they have the time to do things they didn't do when the stands were full for every game. It's more likely individual ushers doing this than some sort of policy change. But if it were the latter, the Twins would be only compounding their growing public relations problems.

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 4:01 PM by Rick 517

Too often this year the Twins have been down 3-4 runs by the time the second inning rolls around.

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 4:01 PM by terry Highlight this comment 518

If you told me at the beginning of the season the Twins would witness up to three on field playoff celebrations, I would be surprised but one ecstatic person! Only problem is it's three opponents clinching a pennant or Wild Card berth.

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 5:12 PM by tk Highlight this comment 519

OK - I found the ideal schedule, as advocated by Thrillhouse on the very Board:

13 games vs 4 divisional teams = 52 games
6 games vs 10 teams in other divisions = 60 games
4 games vs. rival = 4 games
4.games vs ipposite league rival = 4 games
3 games vs. 14 interleague teams = 42

Total 162 Games

My change was to keep rival games equal between leagues to be done as 2x2 each year or alternating 4 series in rotating parks

Posted on September 24, 2013 at 12:41 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 520

Struck out 17 times and went 2 for 18 with runners in scoring position last night ... and won. Strange game. Sure hope they do something to address all the strikeouts and the anemic batting averages, especially with RISP, before next season.

Posted on September 24, 2013 at 08:12 AM by terry Highlight this comment 521

Think ole Larry boy will mix up that grass cut pattern for the All Star game?? Cmon Larry change it up a bit will ya?

Posted on September 24, 2013 at 2:51 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 522

Think Twinkfan will ever stop posting about grass patterns and Holiday dogs? C'mon Twink, give it a rest.

Posted on September 24, 2013 at 3:15 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 523

Anyone want tickets for tonight? my son isnt feeling well so we have to skip, 4 tickets in sec 214, row 3. email me asap!

Posted on September 24, 2013 at 3:38 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 524

214 are some nice seats...wow. wish I could go but I cant

Posted on September 24, 2013 at 5:12 PM by luke Highlight this comment 525

Completely unrelated from anything currently posted, but has anyone heard of any updates to the Target Center renovation project??

Posted on September 24, 2013 at 8:52 PM by Brandon Highlight this comment 526

Brandon, Attached is a link from early August where Rybak says they are still negotiating.

Posted on September 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 527

Reusse says they should let the saints play indoors there and move the wolves to the X. Or just blow it up!

Posted on September 25, 2013 at 08:31 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 528

I don't think I saw anything here about this. Does anyone know what happened to the banners on the fence along Glenwood/Twins Way? Almost all of them suddenly disappeared about two months ago.

Posted on September 25, 2013 at 08:41 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 529

Love this Twitter battle between Reusse and Twins President DSP...

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Twins tried to inflate their "attendance" numbers

Patrick Reusse ‏@1500ESPN_Reusse 20h

Twins sending out supply of free tickets to sponsors for this week ... apparently to announce higher official "attendance" total for season.

Dave St. Peter ‏@TwinsPrez 18h

(1of2) @1500ESPN_Reusse correctly points out Twins have provided some Fan App tickets to top sponsors w/ large number of MN employees.

Dave St. Peter ‏@TwinsPrez 18h

(2of2) @1500ESPN_Reusse falsely claims Twins motivation is to artificially increase season attendance total. Simply not the case.

Posted on September 25, 2013 at 12:39 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 530

Was at AT&T Park last night for first time. Was still a sellout even with Giants stinking. Beautiful park and setting as we all know. What did stand out in comparing it to TF is how much the Target branding takes away from the aesthetics. The mixture of various concession stands each with own identities added to the carnivalesque feeling. I'm afraid Target's branding prevalence takes away from the true ballpark experience and keeps me from ranking it in the top 5.

Posted on September 25, 2013 at 7:56 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 531

The old baseball card banners were taken down, I think, as part of the Interchange construction. Different fences had to be installed.

Posted on September 25, 2013 at 8:19 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 532

TTH - I kinda have to agree with you on that, as that whole area is very Target-centric - even the arena has newer, shinier signage that does take something away. Target even has it's logo embedded in stone on the plaza. But still, walking up 6th Street with the ballpark slowly coming into view still has its own ambience to it (and on game days, I think has a very carnivalesque/State Fair-ish feel, I think anyway). Maybe it's just cause we were so used to walking up to a grey, pressurized cabin all those years, with NO ambience whatsoever.

Posted on September 25, 2013 at 8:45 PM by luke Highlight this comment 533

Agreed, TTH.

I never liked the Target red on everything, but I used to think of it as a necessary evil. Now, however, it feels oppressive and I hate it.

And I still hate pretty much all of the concession signage. Once you've seen what is being done in places like SF, you realize that what they did here is too small, unimaginative, utilitarian, ugly, and just plain boring.

Seeing these other places makes it clear that these types of details, even though they seem like nothings, really do matter to how the whole experience is perceived.

TF is pretty buttoned-down by comparison, and you can't even imagine using a word like "carnivalesque" to describe any part of it.

I thought about this when I was at the State Fair this year (while enjoying a Minneapple pie so delicious that it's hard to believe it came from the same kitchen as the dry lumps served at the ballpark; the pumpkin version was unbelievably good as well). Basically, TF looks kind of like a commissary by comparison.

Posted on September 25, 2013 at 10:05 PM by Rick 534

Very much agreed about concession signage. VERY utilitarian and uninspired. As far as Target presence in and around the ballpark, at least they didn't install Target red seats like they did at the Target Center when it first opened (since replaced with Twolves colored seats).

Posted on September 25, 2013 at 10:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 535

3 for 33 with runners in scoring position and 44 strikeouts in the three game series with Detroit. To quote something Joe Garagiola once said, this team needs help from the parking lot attendant on up.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 06:55 AM by terry Highlight this comment 536

Anyone see the Carlos Gomez incident last night in Atlanta?

Was nice to see some meaningful baseball played last night at Target Field in late September. We even got to witness a celebration in the clubhouse...just happened to be the visitor's clubhouse.

2009 and 2010 seems so long ago....

Meanwhile, the Twins continue on to lose their 92nd game of the season and are nearing an end to their third consecutive 90+ loss season.

What are everyone's thoughts on Gardenhire and Ryan? Is Gardy brought back? I am sure Ryan will be back. What really needs to happen is for Pohlads to clean out the front office entirely, including DSP and Terry Ryan and bring in a new President from outside the organization to re-build the front office. This includes the scouting staff and coaching staff. But that just isn't the "Twins Way" where they promote within or "reassign"...Only the Twins fire a GM than re-assign him to another front office role to only have the previous GM step back in the role.

You honestly have to ask yourself, what exactly is the Twins' plan for the future? Who and what is the future of this ballclub? Sure, they have Sano and Buxton, but it's going to take more than those two. What about pitching?

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 08:26 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 537

My dream is for the Pohlad's to sell the club to Mark Cuban. Free agents would never be too high priced.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 09:37 AM by FD Highlight this comment 538

Pohlads.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 09:38 AM by FD Highlight this comment 539

The problem is the Pohlads themselves, they just are not into baseball. The way they run this team would you buy a car from them?

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 10:42 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 540

Fiesta- I was actually talking about the banners along the parking area for Champion's Club, away from the park. I've always thought it would be tempting to cut the zip ties and steal them, but for someone to take all of those they would have had to have been pretty efficient.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 11:06 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 541

Apparently TRyan made a comment about "getting Gardy some players." Who knows if it was a slip, but something tells me that internally they may not see on-field management and coaching as the issue.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 542

Gardy could be the best manager in baseball, but without talent on the field that's meaningless. Fire Ryan.

As for Target Field - as one who visits in waves - it seems like it has gotten more commercialized and Taret-ized each time I visit. When looking at pictures from 2010 and last year/this year, it is quite noticeable. If the Twins keep this up, we'll start looking like Citi Field (and that's not a good thing)

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 12:23 PM by Jfh Highlight this comment 543

Jctwins-

That fence blew over in the huge storm earlier in the summer. Perhaps they didn't put the banners back up for fear that they caught the wind gusts and contributed to the fence toppling?

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM by Chad Highlight this comment 544

Thanks Chad, I didn't realize that.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 12:55 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 545

Unless you also fire the Pohlads, it's pointless to fire Terry Ryan. His replacement would probably come from inside and be from roughly the same mold (i.e. another Bill Smith). There are some things that you just have to accept about the Twins, and the first is that it's a family business and always has been. Bringing in someone splashy from the outside is doomed to failure because the existing culture won't accept it. (Chris Clouser, anyone?)

It takes three to five years to see results with a GM change, which is why Smith had three successful teams before the bottom fell out, and why Ryan will have had at least four lousy years before the lights flicker back on.

Given what happened in the minor league system this year, '15 is looking pretty good, and a lot of that is due to Ryan. A case can be made that the franchise is already well on its way back to winning, despite the fact that '14 is going to be another rough one.

As for Gardy, I see two questions:

1. Is he the right guy to get the team to its ultimate potential when the players are good? (His playoff record suggests that he is not.)

2. Does changing managers help public relations enough to take a risk on someone else? (A new manager and coaching staff could look good to a lot of fans and buoy season ticket sales, at least a little.)

I don't know what they'll do, but if it were me, Ryan stays and Gardy et. al. go.

And of course I hate to say that because I think Gardy is among the best out there (and the playoff sample size is too small to mean much). But look at some of the options: Charlie Manuel is looking for a job. Ron Washington is on the ropes. Paul Molitor has been serving as manager-in-waiting for a decade. How long can Mike Redmond last before becoming a sacrificial lamb in Miami? Could the Twins need a year of Bobby Valentine just to clear their heads? (Worked for the Red Sox.)

Now is the perfect time to make a manager change in anticipation of the next generation of players, but it's a terrible time to make a GM change because some very specific pieces are still needed, and the architect who started the design work is essential to seeing the building through to completion (if you believe he has the skill and vision to do so, which I think he does).

That said, I'm not sure they actually need to fire Gardy, but it sort of feels like the writing is already on the wall.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 1:11 PM by Rick 546

I never heard that the fence was destroyed. Was there a Strib article about it?

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM by Rick 547

I do think the style of managing has changed since Gardy began. I'm not sure TK would do very well in today's environment. Players (in sports generally) seem less mature than they were 15 years ago, and I think the way they develop and the distractions are much different than days gone by.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 2:01 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 548

At least in the late 1990s dark ages, comp tickets of the sort Reusse and DSP seem to be referring to weren't counted in official attendance. However, for some reason Twins Community Fund freebies did count. The Twins threw some comps that belonged rightfully in the former category into the latter instead with the goal of goosing the crowd count.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 2:45 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 549

Why wouldn't they just lie outright? Not like that would be something new.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 4:24 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 550

This subject comes up often. Reports of attendance are a "secret sauce" and calculated differently by each team. They can also be calculated differently from game to game.

They are essentially meaningless, and should be treated as novelties only.

(I asked the Twins this question directly, and that's essentially the answer I got, albeit not in exactly those words.)

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 4:31 PM by Rick 551

So Bud Selig commits to a January 2015 retirement date. That should already help the Twins win a World Series right? No more having to worry about contraction... ::shrug::

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 4:48 PM by jared Highlight this comment 552

P.S. Message to Rick, every time I have posted for the past two weeks my comment is posted but I get redirected to some other site adult in nature.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 4:50 PM by jared Highlight this comment 553

Jared, are you using Firefox?

Anybody else experiencing that?

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 4:55 PM by Rick 554

lol

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 4:56 PM by shackelford Highlight this comment 555

Jared - I thought I was the only one. And yes, I am using Firefox

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 5:08 PM by luke Highlight this comment 556

I've experienced the same thing, Rick. I am using Chrome.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 5:13 PM by FD Highlight this comment 557

I swear sweetie, I was just posting to a ballpark discussion site...

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 7:07 PM by tk Highlight this comment 558

Joe Girardi might be available in a week...

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 7:37 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 559

I had seen this happen a couple of times and was puzzled because I have JavaScript disabled by default. I was starting to think it was a browser hijacker of some sort.

But not it looks like something is getting injected at the server. I'll take it up immediately with the host provider.

Sorry for the trouble!

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 8:00 PM by Rick 560

Oh, Jared...

A few weeks ago you embedded some logo images into a comment. They were images for a while, and they turned into nasty scripts.

I've removed the offending items and I think it should be OK now.

Everyone, please let me know if it happens again.

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 8:16 PM by Rick 561

Hard to imagine Joe Girardi on the market given the stinky roster he dealt with this year...

Posted on September 26, 2013 at 9:08 PM by Rick 562

Weird, I've never been redirected when posting.

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 02:01 AM by Dave Highlight this comment 563

There are some that believe the Yankees are on a downward slide due to age, injuries, and a depletion of their farm system. Girardi won a World Series with this team a few years ago and managed to hold them together long enough to challenge for a playoff spot this year. However, with the looming possibility of a four, five, or six year slide, Girardi might be thinking about moving on to other challenges in places where the press won’t hammer him as hard as the NY press might during a lengthy playoff drought (in NY, that’s about two or three seasons).

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 03:41 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 564

Oh, sorry about that. The random logos came straight out of a google image search. I didn't go any farther into those pages than that. The Twins ones (if I remember right) I posted on my FLickr and linked from there.

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 08:54 AM by jared Highlight this comment 565

Random replies...
1. If the Twins ever hire Bobby Valentine as manager, I'll burn my STs on Target Plaza.
2. The Twins are set up well for position players over the next few years. A LOT is riding on Gibson/Meyer/May developing into top-of-the-rotation starters. That's a far less sure thing than Buxton and Sano becoming All Stars, imo.
3. Girardi will be available if he decides he doesn't want to work on the Yankee rebuilding project, or he wants a clean break with the old guard all retiring now or soon. That said, he's not coming to Minnesota to help with a rebuild here.
4. NY's rebuild won't take long. They don't have great prospects but don't need them. They need/want to get under the lux tax next year, so they'll be crimped a bit, but they can spend lavishly thereafter without taking the huge tax and revenue sharing hit. And even next year could be fine for them if they can get Sabathia back on track, Teixeira back healthy, resign Cano (this could be iffy), and ink a few solid mid-tier guys with the money not spent on Rivera, Pettitte, etc. Of course, I'm hoping it all falls apart, but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 09:41 AM by BR Highlight this comment 566

If Brian Wilson came to Minnesota he wouldn't have these problems.

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 11:42 AM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 567

Anyone catch Dick and Bert on the Kiss Cam last night?

Pretty hilarious...Bert's reaction

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 12:48 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 568

Thanks for that fix Rick. I kept trying to figure out which link I was clicking on while opening tabs that was redirecting me to that 'adult' site. It was a frustrating thing for me as it happened while I was at work and got a couple pings on the firewall here. Was happening occasionally when I was trying to just open the normal page, not posting.

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 1:26 PM by Schda Highlight this comment 569

Watching tonights game on FSNN (blacked out on MLBN). My God it looks REALLY empty at TF :(

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 7:28 PM by luke Highlight this comment 570

It is considerate of the Twins to put the game out of reach early enough that there is plenty of time to put on a movie - even for those of us who go to bed relatively early.

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 7:54 PM by terry Highlight this comment 571

So --- you don't get to keep a bat which flies into the stands?

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 10:57 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 572

Fox picked up Saturday's game. That means a rare over the air broadcast and a 12:05 start instead of the scheduled 3:10. If you're going, and it looks rainy tomorrow, beware.

Posted on September 27, 2013 at 11:07 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 573

MLB dot says 24,000 and change last night. Is that the lowest attendance yet at TF? I thought it looked empty out there.

Posted on September 28, 2013 at 08:55 AM by luke Highlight this comment 574

Oh, I see the rain delay is over. So now comes the real choice: Should I watch the game or a couple more episodes of Breaking Bad?

(I'll be out to help close down the season and the ballpark tomorrow afternoon. Anybody else?)

Posted on September 28, 2013 at 3:02 PM by Rick 575

I will be there tomorrow.

Posted on September 28, 2013 at 3:14 PM by jared Highlight this comment 576

I understand TF got the shaft to host the NHL Winter Classic in 2015. Nationals Park in the DC got it. Oh well, there's always 2016 :(

Posted on September 28, 2013 at 7:28 PM by luke Highlight this comment 577

Btw Rick, I have noticed when commenting from my mobile devices, the adult site comes back.

Posted on September 28, 2013 at 7:29 PM by luke Highlight this comment 578

That Murderer's Row of a batting order scored a run today and the pitching couldn't make it stand up. Sorry for the sarcasm, but there has been so much focus on the horrible pitching that I think it may have over-shadowed the horrible hitting.

Posted on September 28, 2013 at 7:50 PM by terry Highlight this comment 579

There was hitting?!

Posted on September 28, 2013 at 9:47 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 580

I'm going to the game today. Last day of another #lostseason, weather should be perfect, I still like our ballpark - and maybe I'll get a chance to watch Cleveland celebrate the way I watched Detroit celebrate.

Since it's pretty obvious that it will be several years before we can see the Twins celebrate...

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 08:32 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 581

Well this season was A bust again what do people think might happen in the off season.

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 10:11 AM by Leroy Highlight this comment 582

You "still" like our ballpark? Don't be one of those types that throws the whole thing out just cause the team sucks. I love TF so much, I sit in front of G34 on my lunch break...gawking.

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 2:35 PM by luke Highlight this comment 583

What I think will happen in the off season is the same thing as the past 2 offseasons: a full page ad by Twins in Strib thanking the best fans in the game and that this will get fixed and to thank us for our patience and understanding. Also Terry Ryan will address the media and state the same thing. Then they will go out and bargain basement hunt (again) for a diamond in the rough. And speaking of a diamond in the rough we already got one of those-as witnessed by todays game and a typical game for Diamond. Then will continue the fevorish push of the MLB All Star Game to try and take our fan's minds off of the product on the field. Oh well at lweast there is the Vikin....at least there is the Gophers foot... at least there is the....Lynx?

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 5:10 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 584

Gopher women's volleyball team is pretty entertaining to watch.

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 5:47 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 585

They'll sign some bargain basement free agents. Maybe they'll even find a legitimate major leaguer in that bargain basement. I just hope they don't trade any of their good prospects for hooey - like the trade of Ramos for ... well you know ... Hoey.

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 6:42 PM by terry Highlight this comment 586

Gardy was so embarrassed, he didn't even look at the camera for 80% of his postgame press conference today, which might end up being his last. And how embarrassing is it to be the team on the schedule which ended up being the party for THREE teams that made it to the playoffs? That's gotta be some record.

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 7:27 PM by luke Highlight this comment 587

2649 days, 9 hours, 26 minutes and 5 seconds until the next Twins game according to the countdown. I certainly hope that isn't a countdown to the next Twins postseason game.

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 8:34 PM by TK Highlight this comment 588

7.257 years? That sounds about right.

Posted on September 29, 2013 at 10:01 PM by luke Highlight this comment 589

I fixed the countdown. It still has a depressing number, but not quite as bad.

Also, given the tie-breaker game tomorrow, we have to wait until that's over to do the 2013 Playoff Challenge. So stand by, because I'll have it ready to go as soon as that game ends tomorrow night.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 01:27 AM by Rick 590

It is hard to look at such a large number in the countdown. It reminds me too much of the interminable winter of 2012-2013. As exasperating as the team has been the last three years, it is still sad to see the season come to an end.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 09:54 AM by terry Highlight this comment 591

Does Mr Whipple come back next year? Lets hope he tells the Twink to take this job and shove it! Got to be at least 6 teams looking for new skippers next year one would think. With this pitching staff another 90 plus loss season has to be almost a sure thing! See ya Gardy it was a nice run. The lads couldn't even get you 2 more wins to bow out at 1000! Finishing up 4-16 the last 20 games! We do one thing here in Minnesota and we do it well! LOSE!!!!! LOL!

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 09:58 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 592

I walked around TF for about 90 minutes after the end of the game yesterday, and I think I was not alone in wanting to extend the season/summer. When I walked out of gate 34 at about 5:30, there were still at least a couple thousand fans still milling about. Some were families with kids running the bases, but some were just sitting in the stands, enjoying the last rays of summer sun.

If only our baseball winter were actually going to end on April 7, 2014.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 10:07 AM by Rick 593

That said, this October could be a blast. I expect to watch more baseball in the coming weeks than I have all summer long.

Tie-breaker tonight!

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 10:09 AM by Rick 594

So you lose 90+ games three consecutive years and you give your manager a new 2-year deal?? Which means Rick Anderson will probably be back as well. Terry Ryan and DSP are going nowhere either so all remains status quo over at One Twins Way!! Let's start pumping it up around here for the 2014 season!!

How no one can be held accountable for three consecutive 90+ loss seasons is beyond me...

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 595

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 11:02 AM by Rick 596

It might be reasonable to say that the person responsible for these three lousy seasons (and at least one to come) has already been dealt with: Bill Smith.

Maybe that's not accurate. Maybe that's not fair. But it's not unreasonable to believe.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 11:04 AM by Rick 597

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 11:06 AM by Rick 598

I feel like it's about 1997 when the team was awful, but wasn't ready to start climbing up again, with the presence of a few talented vets fooling the front office into believing the Twins are much better than they actually are. In other words, 2014 is going to be worse and we won't see any sign of a rise until 2015 at best.

As an aside, we hear people call for the Twins to spend money, but on who? No one who'll make a difference is coming here, period. This is a bad team in a market that appeals little to outsiders and is in a division with major obstacles. Anyone midrange, the Twins will have to overpay to get. We got out of the 1993-2000 funk via the minors, quality signings at inexpensive money, and a few astute trades. That's how we'll escape now. It's not about signing big money guys, because we won't get them.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 11:25 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 599

Decision had to have been based on cost. Certainly not on quality.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 11:51 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 600

Ohh boy you can feel the excitement already???? Can't wait for the big news in an hour! 2 years?????Whats the point? This should boost season ticket sales that's for sure! LOL! You give a guy and his current staff another 2 years??? Hello?????

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 601

People need to stop buying tickets to Twins games. If the cheapskate Pohlads are to cheap to fire a terrible Manager after 3 FREAKING 90 PLUS LOSS SEASONS IN A ROW, like any of the other 29 teams would do, then don't give any money by buying tickets! I raised hell to key state legislators to finally get the ballpark done, and these the thanks we get from the Poorlads! I'm done with the Twins!

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 1:34 PM by gus munger Highlight this comment 602

Some people argue that change just for change's sake is good. I don't believe it.

A couple of days ago (scroll back in these comments) I wrote some thoughts about whether Gardy needed to go, and the only reason I could ever come up with is that it would satisfy those in the fan base who just want some sort -- any sort -- of change.

By sticking with Gardy, the Twins have now committed to making that change somewhere else -- either that or they're willing to concede the inevitable further erosion of trust between the fans and the team.

This move puts the pressure on Ryan big time to deliver something -- anything -- in the off-season. (It also, by the way, puts even more pressure on the marketing team to make the absolute most that they can of the All-Star game, in order to cover '14.)

That's the context in which I'm understanding this move.

As I said before, Gardy is one of the best. At the very least, this deal gives him the opportunity to go out on his own terms, a la TK (who many thought was a goner after 2000, but was given 2001 to redeem himself, which he did, then turned the whole thing over to Gardy the next year).

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 1:42 PM by Rick 603

The sad thing is that Twins fans will continue to flock to Target Field next year...there has been no evidence to indicate the Twins fans will simply stop showing up to games. When you draw 100,000+ for a 3-game series against the Astros in August, it's pretty sad considering the Twins and Astros were two of the worst teams in baseball.

They also drew 130,000+ for a 4-game series with the White Sox in August as well...again, two of the worst teams in baseball.

Sure hope all of those season ticket holders enjoy that All-Star Game!! There seems to be a lot of STH's renewing based on the All-Star Game. If you truly want to send a message to Twins ownership, than do not renew your season tickets, do not go to any games at Target Field and do not watch/listen to the games on TV/radio. And stop buying Twins merchandise.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 1:46 PM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 604

Well the reason they drew well in August is that they had only one weekend home stand vs. Tribe the entire month of July this past year. With Gardy back that certainly will end the Trevor Poof era that's for sure. Bad move by the Pohlads!

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 2:12 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 605

Mike

I renewed for ASG only. I am part of a 4 person group and the other 3 wanted to do it since we stuck it out through this year... so i agreed. If they would of said lets not, i would of been perfectly fine with it.

I have a feeling we are done in 2015 regardless, or at the very least drop down from a full season. Unless they show me something big this year, there will be no renewal in 2015...

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 2:47 PM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 606

I like Gardy as a manager. But, I think Rick Anderson needs to go, and I think the Tom Brunansky experiment as hitting coach was a dismal failure.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 2:52 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 607

Withholding your money from the team really is the best way to send a message. But the Twins are currently so profitable that it's hard to imagine it making much difference unless the corporate STHs join the movement.

For many decision-makers, a Major League baseball game is enough fun as it is. Winning would be just icing on the cake. That makes it hard to get ownership's attention through conventional means.

Maybe a sit-in?

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 2:52 PM by Rick 608

Hit em where it hurts! The concession stands! Bring in your own brats and dogs and rum! You like spending $8.00 for beer & $5.00 for a stale dog??? Also buy a cheap seat and sit where you want. LOL! They must have told Gardy that Poof would be moved. Bruno told the boys to swing and they did. Too bad they didn't make much contact! 4th highest strikeouts in MLB history this year for our lads!

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 3:32 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 609

Swing? The Twins took called third strikes so often it made me sick. At least TRY to put the ball in play.

And according to the Star Trib today, it was the 3rd most K's in a season.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 3:48 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 610

The called third strikes bring to mind a batting ability that was almost never in evidence when Twins hitters were at the plate; the ability to foul off tough pitches with 2 strikes. It seemed like opponents were always fouling off 2 strike pitches from Twins hurlers. You would get the foreboding feeling that even though the pitcher was ahead in the count 0-2, eventually the batter was going to get a cookie and crush it. No chance for that to happen if the batter just stands there and take it for strike 3.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 4:03 PM by terry Highlight this comment 611

This goes to something I've felt for a long time: The Twins may be the worst bad-ball hitters in the majors. The hitting style has gotten in their heads and they are trying to "do things" when they swing -- such as hitting line drives to the opposite field.

Sometimes you just have to make contact and hope that what happens is good. Not always, of course, but you have to have that ability.

I think it's Ron Washington who, every once in a while, just puts on the "go out and swing" offense. His hitters just hack at the first pitch and see what happens -- good things as often as not.

But to be a good bad-ball hitter, you have to have strength, bat speed, and a really good eye -- things which don't seem to be part of the "Twins way".

Maybe more importantly, you have to be willing to throw caution to the wind every once in a while. Sometimes they seem too brainiac, without a real "feel" for hitting. It is, after all, as much an art as a science -- with important elements of each.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 4:12 PM by Rick 612

Twink hitters struck out 1430 times this year or 8.83 per game! LOL! Not sure how many of those were backward K's!! Nice job Bruno!!!! Course our pitching staff only struck out opponents 985 times! Which ranked dead last in the AL.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 4:24 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 613

Not Bruno. It's the whole organization.

Twins hitters swing because they think they've got a good pitch to hit. They don't swing unless they think that. They wait for it.

So when it takes a dive right before it gets to the plate, they're surprised.

Whoever pitches BP should throw sh!t and make them try to hit it no matter where it is.

Tony O, in their own damn commercial: "See ball. Hit ball."

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 4:31 PM by Rick 614

And just how silly is the extra wild card game??? You battle your tail off all year(Gardy talkin) and it comes down to a 1 game playoff? LOL! I say take the 3 division winners and then the next best team and be done with it.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 4:40 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 615

I will never believe this team was as good as it could be. And that's on Gardy.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 5:05 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 616

Ben,

What's behind that belief? Are you thinking of certain players or situations?

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's hard to see how this group could have been better, especially given that they did essentially exactly as well as everyone (including those psychic odds-makers) predicted.

Self-fulfilling prophecy, perhaps?

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM by Rick 617

When the Twins sent me their online survey about improving the fan experience, I put blame on the owners and the front office rather than Gardy. Gardy is a very good Manager, there's only so much he can do to improve an individual players performance. The front office, and especially the General Manager, have much more control over the product on the field than the coaches ever could.

btw, that survey had way too many questions about sponsorship and marketing.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 6:53 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 618

I have just been floating on StubHub watching the Pirates tickets get eaten up! Man, reminds me of 2010! 2,700 tickets yesterday. 838 tickets remaining and cheapest single $161.50, standing $175.25, cheapest pair, upper grand stand $189 ...now 832

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM by TK Highlight this comment 619

I think as do others that over the history of the franchise for whatever the reason the Twins get rid of too many talented players,and you know what, that is on the front office. The list is huge dating back to letting Craig Nettles go and so on and so on. Why do the Twins get rid of so many good position players and pitchers and usually get nothing much in return?

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 620

I love that TBS shows PitchTrax on every single pitch. It's so easy to see what pitchers are doing.

Can't figure out why Fox (et. al.) don't do that.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 9:09 PM by Rick 621

Umpire in the booth! Why the f@ck can't baseball get this figured out?

(And, no, what they are planning for next year won't actually solve it.)

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 9:34 PM by Rick 622

OK, now we know the field, so have at it:

2013 Playoff Challenge

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 10:30 PM by Rick 623

FYI when I filled out the challenge bracket this site took me to Adult Friend Finder.

Posted on September 30, 2013 at 11:01 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 624

Hmm. I found one additional embedded image which I must have missed the first time and which may have caused that. It's gone now. But please let me know if such a thing happens again.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 12:54 AM by Rick 625

I also just disabled all of the ads on the site. They haven't made any money for a long time, and they've started to look weird and suspicious.

And I know that this isn't about baseball, but as an advertising partner -- both buying and selling -- Google really sucks. Both AdSense and AdWords are complete garbage, a total rip-off.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 01:04 AM by Rick 626

(And, yes, I'm a little bitter about it.)

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 01:05 AM by Rick 627

I just got bounced to a pretty hot site when submitting my Playoff entry. The entry submitted (confirmed by e-mail), and then I went to the page.
Google Chrome
I've never had this happen until today, and have been posting a little more in the last few weeks.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 09:05 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 628

For those that think spending money is the answer to winning...

Of the top 12 payrolls in baseball, 8 of those teams are not in the postseason. The 4 teams to make the postseason are Dodgers (2), Red Sox (4), Tigers (5), and Cardinals (11)

Meanwhile, Cleveland (21), Tampa (28), Pittsburgh (20) and Oakland (27) march into the postseason.

It's amazing how Oakland and Tampa can compete each and every year while the Twins can never seem to build a future foundation.

Look at Clint Hurdle, he took Colorado to the World Series in 2007 and now he has the Pittsburgh Pirates in the postseason. Terry Francona took Cleveland to the postseason in his first year there. The Indians lost 94 games last year. Joe Maddon has Tampa Bay competing every year in the very tough AL East. Oakland was rock bottom a few years ago and they have since re-built their roster and are competitive again.

What is the future of the Twins? Who is the future of the Twins? What is their plan? It just seems Terry Ryan and Gardenhire are selling "hope" and hoping that all of these AA and AAA players produce major league results, but we all know that is not happening and will not happen anytime soon. When is the last time the Twins have drafted and developed a starting pitcher? Shortstop?

Sure, they have Sano and Buxton coming up along with Alex Meyer, but they are prospects for a reason.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 10:39 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 629

Terry Ryan put on his stern face and assured us this WILL get fixed. He even saved his end of year speeches from 2011 and 2012 as a guide so that he wouldnt miss anything or go off topic.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 12:28 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 630

And Jim Pohlad looked like he had deer in the headlights look the whole time during the press conference! All is well! Perhaps Mr Whipple can get the lads to only lose 89 games next year! Whats that old song by the Who? Won't get fooled again? LOL! Ohhh and can Franssssssssico and Morneau beat the Reds tonight?

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 631

I've said it before and will say it again. If the Pohlads are the Corleone family, Carl is Don Vito, Jerry Bell is a combination of Tessio and Clemenza, DSP is Tom Hagen, Bob Pohlad is Sonny, Bill Pohlad is Michael, and Jim Pohlad has long and without question been Fredo. For Jim, the Twins are his version of the Mickey Mouse nightclub or picking someone up at the airport. Jim having a deer in the headlights look is pretty much par for the course.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 4:02 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 632

I'm changing my mind. Jerry Bell is the elderly consigliere who dies to make room for Tom. Clemenza is Gardy. Tessio is Terry Ryan.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 4:15 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 633

Somebody has to take the fall this year. Why not our greens keeper Larry boy? He better hope that goat roping concert is after the all star game next year!

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 4:29 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 634

Yup, instead of looking at minor league prospects and major league free agents over the winter, the Twins front office should be poring over issues of "Lawn & Garden" magazine.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 5:09 PM by terry Highlight this comment 635

Maybe TF should try something different for a concert next year: I have in mind a concert featuring Gorgoroth, Behemoth and Dimmu Borgir. And oh what the heck, throw Satyricon in there too. Better than goat roping.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 9:24 PM by luke Highlight this comment 636

In some of the old wooden ballparks, they used to let goats roam the outfield on off-days instead of mowing.

And to the best of my knowledge, a goat has never been roped at Target Field. I could be wrong on this.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 11:25 PM by Rick 637

Got to attend a "fantasy batting practice" at TF tonight, invited by my group sales rep. What a hoot! Great fun shagging fly balls and then taking our turn in the cage. Field was just gorgeous...even the infield turf survived my at bats! Even managed to get 3 to the outfield. As far as I could tell, there was nothing wrong with that field at all. A vision of loveliness all around.

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 11:56 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 638

Sounds like a dream, fiesta. Congrats!

Posted on October 1, 2013 at 11:58 PM by Rick 639

Nice to see Liriano step up and take on the #1 role for Pittsburgh and win a postseason game...something he never did in Minnesota. In fact, the PITTSBURGH PIRATES have won more postseason games in one night than the Twins have won over the last 9 years combined...the last Twins postseason win came on October 5, 2004...pretty sad

It really makes you wonder about the Twins organization and their philosophical approach.

I also look at Michael Cuddyer winning the NL batting title...seems he struck out more often than not in Minnesota, especially in clutch situations.

Than you look at other situations such as Kyle Lohse, Carlos Gomez, and JJ Hardy and you have to wonder about the Twins approach.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 08:01 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 640

Luke are those goat roping bands? The only good goat roping is George Jones, Tammy Wynette, Johnny Cash, etc etc etc! Ohhh and fire Devitto now!!!!!!!

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 09:24 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 641

Fiesta, I had a chance to take 'fantasy batting practice' last season. It was an amazing experience, and I had so much fun!

I didn't want to leave when it was over, I'm sure you felt the same way.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 10:24 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 642

At least a few season ticket holders were able to enjoy some October baseball at Target Field :)

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 11:20 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 643

It was nice seeing Morneau battle last night and coax a walk after a long battle. I think his approach has changed since getting to PIT in the several games I have watched. Average/hitting hasn't improved, but he is looking more comfortable and laying off pitches he would have normally swung at.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 12:02 PM by tk Highlight this comment 644

Twink- THOSE are kill your ears Norwegian Black metal bands. The stuff your parents told you would rot your mind and send you to hell if you listened to them. They're awesome...check em out on YouTube

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 12:50 PM by luke Highlight this comment 645

tk - I noticed the same thing with Morneau after watching some of Pittsburgh's games over the last month or so.

I guarantee you Morneau would have struck-out in that same at-bat if he was with the Twins. Instead, he laid off a couple of pitches low and outside and fouled off a few more to eventually drew a walk.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 12:53 PM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 646

Jorge posed the question upstream, asking who the Twins should spend money on. Here's a short list:

1B/DH: Cuban-defector Jose Abreu. Sure, there's some Nishioka-like risk, but there's significantly greater upside, too. For a team whose HR leader had 18, this is the kind of power bat they need to be looking for. And before you say no way the Twins can compete to sign him, remember that the far cheaper A's signed Cespedes two years ago.

OF/DH: Mike Morse. Coming off an injury-riddled year, he's got some latent BA and power talent. Can't field, but think of him as Josh Willingham v.2. Should be relatively cheap, too.

P: Tim Lincecum. Why can't the Twins be the ones to give him the big $, one-year, make-good deal? He'll double the starting staff's K totals! They should also look at Phil Hughes (young and better away from Yankee Stadium; change of scenery candidate). And Ervin Santana. He'll be overpaid, but he's only 30 and a decent bet to be at least a #3 SP for the next few years, which means he'd be this team's ace.

I'd settle for any two of these guys.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 1:27 PM by BR Highlight this comment 647

Edwin Jackson is probably available after a dismal year with the Cubs. He might thrive here.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 1:34 PM by Rick 648

Aw Luke I'm 60 already FCOL! so I'm sure my folks never mentioned them before! Black Norwegians??WOW! "I fall to pieces" Patsy Kline baby! Luke your taste in music splains it all man!

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 1:35 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 649

I was also able to take batting practice on the field last year, thanks to F_T_K. It was the highlight of my year. I still play townball, so it was something I've always dreamed of doing.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 2:48 PM by FD Highlight this comment 650

I would like to sign Lincecum, Garza and Josh Johnson, possibly Hughes. Give Lincecum and Garza 3yr/36m, Johnson 1yr/10m. Other pitchers that intrigue me on a 1yr deal are Volquez, Halladay, and Johan Santana.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 2:53 PM by FD Highlight this comment 651

1yr/$10M for Johnson is your only realistic estimate FD. Garza will get around 5/80 and Lincecum will get something similar, and will absolutely be tied to a draft pick. Rebuilding teams should never give up draft picks.

If the Indians don't offer Ubaldo a QO that should be the Twins main target. He's inconsistent enough to keep his money reasonable (4/56 or so) and young enough to give multiple years.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 3:21 PM by Jp Highlight this comment 652

Yeah I might be low, but I'm not sure Lincecum will get 5 years. Maybe Garza. I'd still go 16m per on a 3 year deal for both. Gardy doesn't like Garza, so that will never happen. It's all about a good clubhouse and "getting after it" with the Twins, not winning games.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 4:08 PM by FD Highlight this comment 653

lol Twink...not "Black" Norweigians...Black Metal, meaning not exactly Gospel/sacred music. It's quite the antithesis of Gospel/sacred music actually...lol.

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 4:53 PM by luke Highlight this comment 654

Oh DY...

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 7:53 PM by TK Highlight this comment 655

On back-to-back nights we have seen former Twins not only be contributing factors but DECIDING factors in their teams' success. I can only believe that Upper Management's "Twins' Way" is the reason for the inept teams we have fielded over the past couple of years. It boggles my mind why not one former player has stepped up and been vocal about how the Twins system has held them back.

Or maybe I'm just imagining it. #frustrated

Posted on October 2, 2013 at 10:36 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 656

So- how many former Twins players are in the 2013 Playoffs? I can think of two

Posted on October 3, 2013 at 06:27 AM by luke Highlight this comment 657

Liriano, Morneau, and Young come to mind right away. Is there anyone else?

Posted on October 3, 2013 at 07:43 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 658

Posted on October 3, 2013 at 07:55 AM by Rick 659

Hunter, Punto, Balfour, Ortiz, Neshek, Luis Ayala

Posted on October 3, 2013 at 09:55 AM by FD Highlight this comment 660

Garrett Jones

Posted on October 3, 2013 at 1:46 PM by trebor651 Highlight this comment 661

Clicky for another former Twins rundown. The count according to the link: 11. *sigh* what could have been.

Posted on October 3, 2013 at 5:45 PM by luke Highlight this comment 662

Luke - he is including Kubel and Crain, who I think were both left off the postseason rosters.

Posted on October 4, 2013 at 08:50 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 663

I wasn't expecting such a large percentage of Viking seats to be subject to a seat license. Just the opposite of the Twins system, which I believe is confined to the Legends Club.

Posted on October 4, 2013 at 09:13 AM by robin Highlight this comment 664

I guess public polling was effective from the stand point that those that attend games should help pay for the stadium. However, the polling was based for public funding/user fees. Looks like the Wilfs will cash in on the deal.

Posted on October 4, 2013 at 12:27 PM by tk Highlight this comment 665

The silver lining in the deal may have become a bit more apparent with the release of those agreement documents.

When all is said and done, the Vikings (or actually their fans and the NFL) will be paying about 70% of the annual operating costs for a building they will only be using about 20% of the year. This should keep fees reasonable for all of the other schools and organizations that want to use the building.

I even read that rollerskating will be retained. That's certainly something.

Posted on October 4, 2013 at 4:54 PM by Rick 666

By the way, my server company made some security changes which prevented posting comments this afternoon...now fixed.

Posted on October 4, 2013 at 4:56 PM by Rick 667

non-TF/baseball/BPM comment: for you iPhone users: the voice of Siri was revealed earlier this week. Her name is Susan Bennett according to CNN. Now that we know she's not a "robo-voice" but rather a real person, I wonder if she gets royalties every time an iPhone user asks Siri something??

OK, back to TF/baseball/BPM. PTI.

Posted on October 4, 2013 at 5:30 PM by luke Highlight this comment 668

This is starting to remind me of Harvin and his migraines.

Posted on October 5, 2013 at 6:44 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 669

I received the following email from the Vikings on Thursday.

"Today the Minnesota Vikings and the Minnesota Sports Facilities Authority (MSFA) finalized the following two fundamental documents related to the new Vikings stadium.

Stadium Development Agreement, which will guide the construction of the new stadium until completion in 2016.

Stadium Use Agreement (i.e. lease), which will govern the team's 30-plus years at the facility.

Both of these detailed documents are major milestones for delivering the stadium project on time and on budget. Their completion brings us that much closer to opening day in 2016.

As one of our most loyal fans, we wanted you to hear directly from the team regarding the inclusion of one particular topic within the development agreement: the parameters of a Stadium Builder's License (SBL) program that will be used as a finance tool for the stadium project.

A Stadium Builder's License is a one-time fee that guarantees Season Ticket Owners (STO) will own their seats for a defined term as long as they continue to purchase season tickets. SBL programs have been used to help finance construction of more than half of all stadium projects throughout the NFL and include benefits for fans . SBLs were thoroughly discussed and vetted throughout the legislative process here in Minnesota and ultimately authorized as a stadium project finance option. While details have yet to be worked through, the following points are expected to be included in the program:

- 25% of stadium capacity, including approximately 12,000 seats, will not include an SBL

- Various pricing zones, including some with SBLs as low as $500

- More than 10,000 seats with an SBL will be priced at $1,000 or less

- Expected average one-time SBL price will be approximately $2,500

- Approximately 80% of seats with SBLs will be priced at $3,000 or less

- Maximum price for an individual SBL will be $10,000

- At least two financing options will be available to make easier interest-free payments:

1) An equal installment payment plan, with a down-payment at signing, interest-free prior to the stadium's completion

2) A finance plan over multiple years, with a down-payment at signing, interest-free prior to the stadium's completion, which would be available for a minimum of five years

- Maximum gross SBL program of $125 million allowed

Please note this is only the initial step in developing and introducing a final SBL program. We understand you have many questions regarding SBLs, and we will answer them as soon as possible. Now that the parameters have been established, the Vikings and the Authority will begin work to finalize will begin work to finalize and introduce a Stadium Builders License program. At that time, we will communicate the program directly to you and be able to answer any questions you might have. In the meantime check out this Q&A and this recent Minnesota Public Radio article for more background on SBLs.

As always, we will continue to keep you updated throughout the stadium process. We greatly appreciate your continued support of the Minnesota Vikings, and we are looking forward to an exciting future together."

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 3:19 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 670

I had a very elaborate analysis of the Vikings PSL plan typed on Thursday. Then the board ate my post.

Here's the short version:

The Vikes clearly know the PSL term is toxic and want to use the SBL term instead although by squarely saying this money pays for the stadium, they may be opening themselves up for abuse on another front.

- I expected more in the region of 60% to 65% of the seats rather than 75%. Anyone predicting north of 75% was still out to lunch in my opinion however.

- I want to see a detailed breakdown of the pricing.

- There are some folks out there who are on the lower deck at the Dome, on the 40 yard line, and who've had seats since 1966 that simply won't be able to pay the fees the Vikes want and can command for those locations. If I was one of them, I'd be heartbroken and angry right now (the PSLs for my two seats will be low on the scale, but not rock bottom). We will hear about these people in the media soon. The Vikings need to be very sensitive and careful, more than ever before, about how they handle the criticism that will come from giving long time seat holders the boot from their locations.

- The amount the Vikes want to raise is about in the middle among NFL teams, adjusted for inflation. The Vikes want to raise $125,000,000. The 49ers, whose new stadium opens in 2014, are raising $539,000,000 via PSLs.

- Offering financing options to PSL holders was a smart move.

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 3:23 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 671

Those who clamored for a new stadium have nothing to whine about regardless of how PSLs might affect them.

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 3:38 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 672

A Personal Seat License, sorry, Stadium Builder License FAQ.

SBL FAQ

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 673

Anybody catch the Dodgers field cut today? What a thing of beauty!!! Now that is how you mom grass Larry!!!!! Makes the cut at TF look like a little league cut! Wake up and smell the roses Larry!!!!!!! FCOL!

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 7:33 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 674

Ooops meant mow! FCOL!

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 7:34 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 675

Please get a hobby.

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 10:08 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 676

well, it IS Dodger Stadium after all, probably one of the best, if not THE best maintained and manicured ballpark in the league (I do believe several sources have said the same about the ballpark at Chavez Ravine).

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 10:23 PM by luke Highlight this comment 677

Dodger Stadium = Chavez Ravine

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 11:18 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 678

Vikings to sign FA Josh Freeman, looks like the Vikings are trying to distract the PSL conversation...err, the SBL

Posted on October 6, 2013 at 11:23 PM by TK Highlight this comment 679

We won't have Christian Ponder to kick around anymore.

Posted on October 7, 2013 at 05:31 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 680

Winona don't get your undies in a bunch man! By the way I did attend Winona State back in the early 70's! $10.95 per credit back in those days! LOL! This site is called Ballpark Magic so I feel I can rip the Twinks and the poor field conditions! Bad move on the Queens signing lazy Freeman. Guy is a poor mans Daunte Cullfumbler! FCOL!

Posted on October 7, 2013 at 08:27 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 681

The guy constantly complaining about the grass pattern telling someone not to get his undies in a bunch. You can't make this stuff up folks.

Posted on October 7, 2013 at 08:48 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 682

Back to SBLs... I, too, was surprised by the high % of seats covered but also by the relatively low overall amount being raised and low top amount ($10k) being charged. I guess they all offset. I understand the angst long-time STHs will feel, but they HAD to see this coming. It costs big $ to build a new stadium, and people buying premium seats will always be expected to help defray that cost. Would they rather the team just charge $1000/ticket for 40-50 yard line seats and premium suites? Looks like half the stadium will have SBLs at $1000 or less (down to 0), so if you really can't afford to finance the $5000-$10000 cost, then move your seats to a less expensive area. 25 yard line seats in a state of the art stadium (with far better amenities, etc) will be better overall than 45 yard line seats in the Dome.

And to be clear - I'm not saying I like the SBLs. But they're a reality that can't reasonably be ignored. It's a main way of ensuring that the users pay more for the stadium and the non-users pay less.

Posted on October 7, 2013 at 1:26 PM by BR Highlight this comment 683

Football is even better on a 60 inch HD tv! Course if somebody wants to twist my arm and offer a free ticket inside Ziggys new palace I'll take it! FCOL!

Posted on October 7, 2013 at 2:11 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 684

Atmosphere isn't worth the price, enjoy the game much more at home.

Posted on October 7, 2013 at 7:14 PM by tk Highlight this comment 685

I'll wait for Prep Bowl 2016 to get my peek inside the new digs.

Posted on October 7, 2013 at 9:01 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 686

Through my ST group, had the opportunity last night to go on the field, play catch, throw in the bullpen and run the bases. What a great time I had with my 10 yr old son. He was diving for fly balls, playing them off the RC field wall, just running around on an incredible playing surface. Amazing how short and fast that turf is, with a nice true hop on balls coming off it.

Standing in CF, looking towards the plate with empty seats is amazing. I can't imagine what it would be like trying to field a ball hit out there with a background of 1000s of fans, sunlight, etc.

Such a great game and great ballpark. It's going to be a long winter. (And probably another long summer...)

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 09:20 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 687

Take note Larry!!!!!Click link!

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 10:35 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 688

Hey Rick...how can I post pictures here without them being the size of Jupiter? I thought there was an email Addy to post them to?

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 1:03 PM by luke Highlight this comment 689

Just post it in the link next to password luke. This is not rocket science!

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 3:09 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 690

"I can't imagine what it would be like trying to field a ball hit out there with a background of 1000s of fans..."

Either can Twins outfielders.

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 3:20 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 691

Braves fans now knowing what are fans feel! It was a nice run!!

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 3:26 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 692

maybe I should have asked Jared...cause he does it all the time. He posts it right in the comment section Twink. Rick does it too, that's why I asked the MODERATOR'S opinion.

But anyway, clicky for a photo I took standing atop Ramp B this afternoon. Nice blue sky. BTW, being up against that wind veil, my god is that thing noisy.

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 4:43 PM by luke Highlight this comment 693

CCO is reporting that USBS, MB Superdome and LOS are "finalists" to host the Super Bowl in 2018. If my count is correct, this would be SB 51 (LI for the Roman Numeral enthusiasts)??

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 4:52 PM by luke Highlight this comment 694

Luke - your link just goes to Google+ log in?

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 4:55 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 695

G-dammit, I knew it wouldn't work. I'll get it up to Flickr...sorry.

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 6:41 PM by luke Highlight this comment 696

Yeah no thanks to Twink...would've been nice to post it in the comments, but dudey thinks its not rocket science.
Anyway...clicky this link, posted on Flickr now. Hopefully it works. It was a good pic...lol

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 6:47 PM by luke Highlight this comment 697

Strike two, Luke.

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 7:59 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 698

I clicked the link and it blocked Luke... how did I not click this sooner!

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 7:59 PM by tk Highlight this comment 699

It didn't block, the damn Flickr site is doing updates. See how much easier it would have been if I could have just uploaded it directly to BPM? I KNOW there's a way to do it.

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 8:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 700

snit, the reason Google + wouldn't allow it, I hadn't put it on "public"...lol. Might make a BIG difference...lol. Flickr is having its usual problems. SOMEHOW, it'll be posted SOMEWHERE...it was a good pic!

I emailed it to Rick too...so maybe he can download it to the site.

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 9:01 PM by luke Highlight this comment 701

Luke that link sent me to a porn site! FCOL!

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 9:23 PM by twinfan Highlight this comment 702

So THATS happening again? Believe me, I link not to porn sites.

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 9:26 PM by luke Highlight this comment 703

Flickr link I posted works now :)

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 10:21 PM by luke Highlight this comment 704

Who knew posting porn links would throw Twink off his rant...

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 10:54 PM by tk Highlight this comment 705

*who knew Luke posting...

Posted on October 8, 2013 at 10:55 PM by tk Highlight this comment 706

Fun with ballparks. Thanks to Michael Rand in the strib for mentioning this. A graphic designer creates an image based on a single detail of each of the 30 MLB parks.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 08:28 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 707

Thanks for that link fiesta! Some of those are sweet. I'm definitely picking up the Target Field and Great American (my wife is a big Reds fan) versions.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 08:43 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 708

Those posters are really nice. I especially like the Target Field (of course!) and Wrigley Field ones.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 08:48 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 709

It's always good to see pictures of the ballpark. Thanks Luke.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 08:49 AM by terry Highlight this comment 710

Luke - if you look at these cute little format tools directly above the box you type your comment in, you will see that to post an image you type (on a new line preferably)


so for instance in the case of your image you type


I put a space in between the "=" and the URL so you could see the code but that space shouldn't be there. so then in real life it doesn't show the code, just the image:


Depending on the forums you post to, you should make sure that you grab the URL for an appropriately sized image. In my example above, I used the 500px wide version. YOu can step up to maybe the next one or two but 500px is guaranteed to fit. If you go larger than that, it will mess up the formatting of this page but in some other forums you can go pretty large.

Or you can just post the link like you did above and not have to worry about such confusing code.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 09:19 AM by jared Highlight this comment 711

Well that just shows how well I know code. Apparently html doesn't care that much about spaces. I never though to worry about that.

Anyway, allow me to try again.

Example 1:
img=url (surrounded by square brackets, [])

Example 2:
img=http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7295/10162877455_e71595b010.jpg (surrounded by square brackets, [])

I am not a programmer, don't totally care to be but the basics get me by.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 09:23 AM by jared Highlight this comment 712

Those minimalist posters were fun to review. They nailed some parks: Camden, Philly, Target Field, Fenway, Wrigley, Busch. Some of those were easy/obvious. Some of them failed, imo: Rangers, Dodgers, Safeco, Progressive. All of those were too generic. AT&T's hits on two of the park's prominent features but misses the essence of what makes the park great - the water. It would have been like using the bronze glove for TF - ok, but misses the iconic Twins branding.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 09:35 AM by BR Highlight this comment 713

BR, I agree on some of the misses. However, I think that the accordion-shaped pavilion at Dodger Stadium is one of its iconic featuers, like the fascia at Yankee. What at Rangers park might you have featured? With Progressive, he chose the feature that I most associate with it: the "toothbrush" light standards, which the Indians used as part of their All-Star logo design in '97. He did say that he'd likely be doing additional ones for some of the parks.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 09:51 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 714

BR: If you look at the sales page he links to there is an AT&T version that focuses on McCovey's Cove. See link.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 10:06 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 715

Those posters are great. Many parks have more than one item an artist might use, but I thought that all of these were very striking. Only Houston's made me look twice and wonder why it had been selected, and only Atlanta's made me think that the essence of the park had been missed. I especially loved Colorado's because it's so very simple.

Even better, most of these could probably be published without permission because they do not infringe on intellectual rights (something that got me into trouble a while back). The Target Field poster is a striking exception and would almost certainly require permission because Minny and Paul are likely trademarked. The only other one which I immediately thought might have such a problem is Yankee Stadium because the team uses images like that for promotion already and probably trademarked it long ago.

Still, a very impressive project.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 10:11 AM by Rick 716

I see that there's an alternate Turner Field one on that page linked by GoAUpher.

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 10:13 AM by Rick 717

Jared...you Sir are awesome. Thanks!

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 12:31 PM by luke Highlight this comment 718

Maybe the jinx is Justin Morneau?

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 9:50 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 719

wow...why could the minimalist S. Preston have had influence in the ASG logo...

Posted on October 9, 2013 at 10:39 PM by TK Highlight this comment 720

Well, my bracket is officially busted.

This is why I'm not a prognosticator!!

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 08:37 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 721

I think this is the latest we've ever had someone perfect (coreyr44). But today's the last day for that because he had the other ALDS going only 4 games...

Oddsmakers are also doing pretty well, but most of the other stat models I threw together are tanking.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 08:43 AM by Rick 722

From today's Star Tribune:

“We only have $975 million in the budget, and there’s only so many things you can get under that number,” said Vikings Vice President Lester Bagley.

How arrogant is that comment?

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 08:52 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 723

I'll go with "Almost Unbelievably Arrogant", Mike.

Sadly, the key word there is "almost"...

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 08:57 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 724

Twins ownership put in extra money to make sure TF and the Plaza had all the desired amenitites. By contrast, the Metrodome was built on a bare bones budget and came in even under that budget. The story of the building of these two facilities should be a cautionary tale for the Vikings. They will only get one chance to get the stadium right.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 10:24 AM by terry Highlight this comment 725

Perhaps they could sell a few more e-pulltabs?

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 10:52 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 726

That's not a very smart comment by Bagley, unless it's intended to make the team look generous later should they decide to kick in some money of their own -- which somehow seems rather unlikely.

And the Metrodome absolutely is a cautionary tale in that regard. The Twins learned that lesson. The Gophers learned that lesson (at least with football). Will the Vikes?

It is perhaps worth noting that the Vikings organization oversaw the design of the Dome, albeit under different ownership. And while you can say that it was a different era back then, the Metrodome design was terrible even compared to its contemporaries (and a host of its predecessors).

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 11:06 AM by Rick 727

"the Metrodome design was terrible"

Terrible for what? Wasn't the idea to build a TV studio for football? Isn't that what they got?

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 11:55 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 728

I'll give the Metrodome this. The football sightlines are pretty good. That was both a blessing and a curse because while on one hand it means that the view of the field is nice, on the other hand it's long created the misconception of the Dome being a good football stadium which, as a total package, it is not in any way, shape or form.

What the Vikings needed out of the Metrodome and didn't get, or apparently even aspire to, were wide enough concourses, entry gates that provided ease of access without choke points, enough restrooms, luxury boxes that were luxurious enough, a dedicated concourse for those boxes, air conditioning (later added), a modern main scoreboard by the standards of the day, a scoreboard that was large enough for purpose, a decent sound system, enough office space for the Twins, enough onsite parking, a proper number of concession stands and points of sales, a private stadium club (rarer, but in use back then), and other assorted factors.

Lester Bagley has a way of saying things that even when true, and he was telling the truth in this case, come off horribly. My hope is that the items the Vikes and MSFA want to skimp on end up being readded somehow. That said, I'm witholding judgment on the merits and demerits of these alterations until matters are finalized. Target Field survived not having a restaurant in center field and the much trumpeted "knotholes". So changes at this stage don't necessarily sound the bells of doom. I agree 100% with Rick that the Vikings owners of the late 1970s, along with the MSFC and local politicians, monumentally dropped the ball on the Dome. That said, the scale and ambitions for this projected, even with the possible scale downs, make it an apples and oranges comparison on many levels.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 12:55 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 729

Actually, Jorge, they did build the "knotholes" into TF, it's just that they were oversold when described. They are those little areas where you can stand and look out from the stadium into the neighborhood, such as the ones behind the left field stands where you can see the LRT station, or the ones that look out onto the HERC plant (and future transit hub), or the ones in the restrooms that look out onto Sixth, or the ones through which you can see the walls of the B ramp.

By calling them "knotholes", the Twins (intentionally) gave the impression that you might get a chance to glimpse the game for free, while never actually intending to allow such a thing.

There is, in fact, one tiny spot outside of gate 6 where you can stand and be able to see home plate if nobody is in the concourse or walking down to their seats along the limestone wall in left. But I doubt that the ushers would let you stand there without a ticket, and when there's a game in progress it's a highly-obstructed view, to say the least.

As for the Dome, it was built in the days before they were actually building TV studios for football (which this new facility will definitely be), and the TV amenities there were especially poor in the early days (and are now extremely poor by modern standards).

Jorge's list is a good one, especially the part about air conditioning, but you don't have to go beyond the utter lack of imagination in the design to rank it at or near the bottom of new stadiums built in the "expansion" era. Even the concrete donuts had more imagination (despite significantly worse sightlines).

I think you also have to fault the very long rows, the lack of horizontal circulation, the unsafe railing configurations (which have since been retrofitted), the insufficient roof height, the poor facilities for food preparation, the horrible office and maintenance facilities, the uneven stair heights (which still persist even in new stadiums), the insufficient press boxes (even on day one), and even the plumbing (which flushed raw sewage into a bunch of suites when the place first opened).

There were no wall or floor or ceiling treatments, and the cement began cracking right away (thank goodness the problems weren't structural). The sound system was an afterthought, and the lighting system had to be totally scrapped at one point.

It was built on the cheap, and it showed from the first day. And I'm not even throwing in all the well-bemoaned limitations for baseball.

But I would amplify that stadium design does not end at the walls of the facility, and this is where the Metrodome really fell flat. The location was (and is) bad, the infrastructure was never upgraded (or, in some cases, created), and what might have been an agent of civic change became an albatross that we're about to tear down.

I don't think it's fair anymore to expect stadiums to last more than about 30 years (though I think the good ones will), but when the Dome was built, 50 years was the minimum expected lifespan, and that assumed certain coordinating decisions from civic leaders, which just never came.

My biggest fear about this project is not that the Vikings will be cheap (which isn't exactly a shocker), but that the city will not do what is necessary to make that site work. At this point, there are some concept drawings and some ideas, but that was true in 1979. And though the elections are a pretty big mess right now, I'm not hearing anything from any candidates -- mayoral or otherwise -- suggesting that there will be support for doing anything other than making good on the financial deal.

Oops! Now I'm giving you a preview of the next post -- which I've been working on for six months...

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 1:31 PM by Rick 730

A knothole to me isn't about seeing out of the ballpark. A knothole to me has always been about getting a glimps into the stadium. One that has at least some form of a meaningful view of the field.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 1:38 PM by moda Highlight this comment 731

Sad part about the knotholes is that while intended to be able to see in, at TF you have to be my height (6-6) or taller to see anything worth seeing. EVEN THEN, best I can see at most of the knotholes is a sliver of the plate or less that, like Rick said, is typically blocked by people inside anyway. I don't remember if they considered the Puckett Gate a knothole but that is another area (outside of gate 6) that I can see the plate well by standing at a few select spots. It makes watching BP more interesting while waiting for the gates to open.

The Hrbek Gate has a pretty solid view (from what I remember, I dont go in that gate often) but I don't believe that you can see the plate directly from there.

Otherwise, I can see well on the B-ramp while standing on my tip-toes! Maybe just park and bring a step stool, or sit on the roof of my car. There is a pretty cool view over the wall at the top of the B-ramp in straight away center. You have to look around and through the Minnie and Paul sign though. Makes for an interesting picture but I guess not so much from a game watching perspective.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 2:28 PM by jared Highlight this comment 732

That's exactly why the Twins called them "knotholes" while knowing full-well that no glimpse of the game would be possible. That's what they wanted people to believe, without actually saying it.

That's called "marketing".

For what it's worth, the architects called them "fissures" -- making them sound more like something you'd find near an active volcano. Still fanciful and a bit grandiose for what they turned out to be, but less deceptive.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 2:30 PM by Rick 733

Marketing... "spin"...Poh-tay-toe, Po-Tah-Tow? Twins are pretty good with "spin" these days.

Perhaps we just call the TF holes "skyline views through stadium walls". Is there one word that defines that? Skyportals, maybe?

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 3:04 PM by jared Highlight this comment 734

Ben the Metrodome IS horrible for ALL intents and purposes. "Isn't that what they got" in regards to a "TV studio for football"? The answer is an emphatic NO...for all the reasons Rick mentioned. Its the worst looking TV studio on the planet.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 3:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 735

Well --- now that I have it from the world's greatest authority I stand roundly chastised.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 3:36 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 736

Well, good grief Ben, you make it sound like you have never been to the place to see how horrible it actually is...lol. IMHO it was the mother of all the Erector Set stadiums of its day...only worse.

Look back, and even Cerny's 3rd Ave stadium idea was better than the Dome. If memory serves, the idea was to have 35W filter right into a parking ramp surrounding the stadium (Rick probably knows more about Cerny's stadium than I would...I've only read about it). The Dome has nothing like that.

Other Erector Set stadiums (aka cookie-cutter, depending on how old you are), had SOME level of creativity. And like Rick mentioned about circulation - other Erector stadiums like the Kingdome, AFC, Riverfront, et.al. - had way better circulation than the Dome ever did.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 4:34 PM by luke Highlight this comment 737

I cannot begin to enumerate all of the errors in the above post, so I'm not even going to try.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 4:58 PM by Rick 738

HAHA. On a sidenote, Rick, your love for baseball is obvious and your lack of interest in football has been covered but I had a fleeting question today, you much of a basketball or hockey guy?

Also, even though the Twins TF story tied you to the political process, you seem as though you follow MN civic/political (whatever the appropriate word is) type processes pretty thoroughly outside stadiums, or at least are pretty familiar with them. Side job/hobby, extensive study, direct experience?

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 5:41 PM by jared Highlight this comment 739

Name two Rick...lol. I call them Erector Set stadiums...well, because its funny. And I could be wrong, it could have been 94 and not 35W

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 7:18 PM by luke Highlight this comment 740

Are you referring to this, Luke?

Hope the link works.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 8:52 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 741

Winona- YES! I didn't realize it was 1972...I thought it was maybe 1976 or 77. But yes that is the design I was speaking of. I read about it in the Metrodome souvenir book that the Minneapolis Trib had published in 1982, but was never able to find much info or images for it online. Only what was in the book.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 10:05 PM by luke Highlight this comment 742

Rick, regarding what you refer to as the Twins overselling the knotholes or marketing, others might call false advertising or even lying.

I've been curious for months to see your essay on the Vikings' stadium. I don't need to read it to get the impression you're less than impressed with most aspects of it (financing, design, location, etc...). I'll admit it's hard for me to be completely objective about it. While I am a Twins fan, as are most who post here, my personal fascination with stadiums of all kinds around the world led me here above all else. As far as local sports go, I am a Vikings fan above all other local teams, although I consider myself a rational fan who doesn't meltdown over something each week or overrate their chances (I saw the 2010 and 2013 comedowns well in advance).

I wish the location was better and more enabled the stadium to fit the fabric of its community. I knew right away that the e-tabs were a joke that had essentially zero chance of raising the necessary funds. There are design aspects that disappoint me, although none have me screaming in fury or despair that we are getting a lemon. The part of me that feels this is conflicted with my pragmatic inner fan who is thankful that anything got done at all and had no desire to tempt relocation fate or accept the notion that we Vikings fans would have to deal with the Dome indefinitely until a better solution came up maybe. The desire to watch my team in comfort and forget all else seems to override logic.

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 10:09 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 743

Luke,

Let's start with the fact that "cookie cutters" and "erector sets" are two separate classes of stadium -- and the Metrodome was neither.

Then let's note that my post said nothing about "circulation" (a term which generally refers to the movement of people within a facility).

You want a dozen more?

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 10:33 PM by Rick 744

Jared,

My interest in what makes a great city really started with curiosity about what happened in the Gateway district of downtown Minneapolis in the early 60s -- well, that plus what happened when all of the interstates slashed through the city.

It's a fascination that has fueled extensive reading and serious independent study for 30 years, and led to my advocacy on behalf of a Twins stadium in the 90s, at least partly to repair the latest rip in the city caused by the Metrodome. That's when I really started to learn how things actually work, and developed a second passion for the general principles of good public policy and urban planning.

I have no experience in the public sector and probably wouldn't last two minutes there (I couldn't stand the tedium, the cronyism, the egos, the greed, the game-playing, or the general mediocrity). But I enjoy observing and parsing these big decisions, and would love it if I could write professionally about such things. (I have experimented with it.) (Andy Sturdevant pretty much has one of my dream jobs over at MinnPost. David Brauer used to have a beat I would also love to cover.) Alas, no one is really clamoring for another commentator. The marketplace is sufficiently stocked with opinions.

The book I'm working on now touches on all of these subjects and how they relate to Target Field. Publication, though already arranged, is still a ways away.

(Most of you know that I'm a professional musician and small business owner, although the latter is fading as I try to grow the former. And baseball is my game.)

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 11:19 PM by Rick 745

Winona Mike,

Thanks for the great link! I've never seen that site before, though I've long wanted to pursue documenting the many unrealized designs for Major League facilities. Maybe that can be another book somewhere down the line...

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM by Rick 746

Jorge,

As George Costanza once said, "It isn't a lie if you believe it." I bet that nobody ever had to say a word to HOK about making sure that there would be no free glimpses of games.

Part of my problem in finishing that post is that I just don't know how I feel about the design.

It's good, maybe even great, but somehow just wrong. It's basically just a pretty face on a totally generic schematic -- and only the downtown face is actually attractive, although very much so. And the whole look has this distinct arrogance that I just can't get into. And the site plans (done by the same group who did Target Plaza) are downright terrible. And the development around that proposed park/plaza looks great in a concept drawing but just doesn't stand a chance if Wells Fargo doesn't win naming rights (which they won't).

And even if it did have a chance, it would have a four-lane road cutting it in half and that ugly, blocky prison building sitting between it and our spectacular city hall. And they'll be tearing down a very lovely art deco building just to (hopefully) replace it with a couple of pseudo-art deco knock-offs (which immediately reminds me of what they did to the Montgomery Ward building in the Midway area -- namely tear it down, build a generic big box, and put up a couple of phony decorations in the style of the original which only remind people of what has been lost; God bless the Midtown Exchange developers).

I really try to like it, and in some ways I do. But the compromises -- financial and otherwise -- dilute the whole thing. I can't help but feel that we'll regret it one day just as much as we do the Metrodome (something which I just don't feel about either TF or TCFBS, or even Target Center or the Xcel Energy Center).

Some things about this project are just plain not right (and none of them have to do with "saving" the Vikings, which is the project's only saving grace at this point).

(Maybe I should just copy this comment into the post and call it a day.)

Posted on October 10, 2013 at 11:45 PM by Rick 747

And we note our place with bookmarkers
That measure what we've lost.

Posted on October 11, 2013 at 02:06 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 748

"I think you also have to fault the very long rows and lack of horizontal circulation" ;)

Give me a dozen more.

Posted on October 11, 2013 at 05:48 AM by luke Highlight this comment 749

rick, when can we expect your Viking stadium posting?

Posted on October 11, 2013 at 05:59 AM by shackelford Highlight this comment 750

Please tell me your not the Gardy buttkisser Shackleford from rube chat.

Posted on October 11, 2013 at 09:13 AM by gus munger Highlight this comment 751

Well, there's an awesome sentence.

Posted on October 11, 2013 at 10:39 AM by Chad Highlight this comment 752

I suppose if toilet bowl cleaners can be awesome so can sentences.

Posted on October 11, 2013 at 1:15 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 753

Please tell me youare not the shackelford from the twincities.com boards.

Posted on October 11, 2013 at 4:31 PM by moda Highlight this comment 754

ha. i'm on rubeshat but i'm not the true shackleford. I am the anti blind homer.

Posted on October 12, 2013 at 08:35 AM by shackelford Highlight this comment 755

That's a relief, I'm nactually not the real Gus Munger from there,I did create the Mus Gunger bit to mock him.

Posted on October 12, 2013 at 10:07 AM by gus munger Highlight this comment 756

Wow, did I buzzkill this place?

Posted on October 14, 2013 at 3:36 PM by gus munger Highlight this comment 757

I better get the ball rolling again. A crazed racist fan at Fenway grabbed a home run ball from a female fan and threw it back onto the field got help from the Fenway security team finding the exit, right move?

Posted on October 14, 2013 at 3:42 PM by gus munger Highlight this comment 758

Yeah it was the right move. We don't need people like that ruining the enjoyment of a ballgame.

Posted on October 14, 2013 at 4:34 PM by luke Highlight this comment 759

He should have been arrested and charged with assault.

Posted on October 14, 2013 at 4:49 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 760

Sometimes I think that what the Twins really need is a Molina.

Posted on October 14, 2013 at 10:00 PM by Rick 761

Anybody that throws anything onto the field should be removed! Including visiting team home runs! No ifs and or butts! Your GONE!

Posted on October 15, 2013 at 08:59 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 762

I didn't see the incident at Fenway that people are describing. What happened?

Posted on October 15, 2013 at 10:12 AM by terry Highlight this comment 763

Some jerk literally pried a homerun ball out of a woman's hand and then threw it back on the field.

Posted on October 15, 2013 at 10:48 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 764

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1484824.1381765578!/img/httpImage/red-sox.gif

Posted on October 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 765

Posted on October 15, 2013 at 11:21 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 766

Wow! To paraphrase Gertrude Stein, a jerk is a jerk is a jerk. I'm happy to say I have not witnessed boorish fan behavior at TF. I'm sure in the 300+ games that have been played there it has happened, but it is infrequent enough that I have never seen it.

Posted on October 15, 2013 at 11:47 AM by terry Highlight this comment 767

Honestly, I could use a few HR ball throwbacks at TF (not by being a jerk, of course). And while we're at it, how about some zany fans dressed as bear mascots infiltrating the top of the dugouts and dancing away, like at Dodger Stadium? No offense, but TF lacks a lot of the color that I see in other ballparks when it comes to fans. Many times at TF, I look at the fan base and think, yawn. Where is the passion?

Posted on October 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 768

Sometimes the truth hurts. Good observation TTH.

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 05:51 AM by luke Highlight this comment 769

TTH,

If the Twins give me something to be passionate about, I would love to do so. Hard to get excited for the lineups they have sent out in the last 3 years of target field.

Fans shouldnt have to carry a team, we do that already by buying tickets, give us something to get excited about.

But please dont throw the HR balls back, stop copying the Cubs, the Cubs are bigger losers than the Twins, why copy anything they do?

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 09:24 AM by Thrillhouse Highlight this comment 770

Yeah, throwing a hr ball back on the field really fires up the home team, right? Probably annoys them more than anything. The ball goes back on the field, somebody retrieves it and it ends up getting tossed to another fan sitting down in the lower level. And they keep it. Or it goes in a bucket for BP.

Dodger Stadium passion? Sure, it is ramped up a bit right now because it is October. Dodger fans are among the most fickle in sports. The guy in the bear suit has his 15 minutes of fame and his picture/videos all over the internet. They will all be back to being "regular Dodgers fans" come next season.

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 09:34 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 771

At least the Dodger fans don't still cheer when their star player grounds out to second base, unlike Twins fans.

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 09:41 AM by FD Highlight this comment 772

Thrillhouse agreed! Hapless cub fans starting all this nonsense! You catch a road teams homerun ball. Hand it over to a little kid and make sure he doesn't toss it back no matter how many drunks egg him on to do it! What a bush league tradition started by a bunch of loser Cub fans! Just like the wave it should be outlawed!

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 09:51 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 773

It's also funny how Twins fans applaud the starting pitcher and give him a standing ovation when he gets taken out of the game in the 3rd or 4th inning...you see this a lot with Twins fans

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 2:44 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 774

It's more or less like what happens when my kids play on the coach-pitched team. We cheer for everybody, even if they suck.

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 2:49 PM by Rick 775

Mike that's a quality start for Twins pitchers!

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 2:49 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 776

I'm not saying every HR ball should be thrown back. I'm just saying that there are certain markets where fans' passion is very evident, and it doesn't solely hinge on where the team is in the standings. When I was in San Fran in late September, the fans were pretty passionate and colorful and their team was in last place. Yes, they were playing the Dodgers, but it was just so apparent - even when the Twins did well when TF opened, I never really saw baseball passion in the stands. I think part of that goes to the environment inside TF - that department store extravagance permeated in the decor does not help. To me, it almost feels clinical. But aesthetics can't explain everything. I have also been to Oakland and seen passion - and they play in a concrete dump. I also think part of it is that we as Minnesotans tend to play into that "nice" mentality. I am sure there are other reasons, and I'd love to hear them.

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 2:50 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 777

Three decades of the Metrodome: Climate-controlled and comfortable baseball-flavored entertainment?

In those last days of the Met through the darkened 1970s, the fans were, uh, rabid at times.

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 2:57 PM by Rick 778

If you haven't heard Vin Scully's call of the Punto pick-off last night, it's truly classic. Hear it here (top video, last of three calls of the play).

A transcript reads like pure baseball poetry:

That double wakes up the crowd.
Pick-off play.
Throw back.
They got Punto!

Nick Punto,
who had to be full of beans
having just doubled
took a pretty big lead
and they hung him out to dry.

And, boy, what that does to the crowd.
All the air comes out of the balloon.

So, Punto erased.
And you talk about a costly out.
That's a killer.

Memories...

Posted on October 16, 2013 at 3:54 PM by Rick 779

Rick, I listened on-and-off to 3 innings of Vin Scully at work yesterday afternoon. What a dream! Love your poetic connection to his delivery.

Posted on October 17, 2013 at 07:17 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 780

What Vin Scully can do with the English language! I love his 9th inning call of Don Larsen's perfect game: "Yankee Stadium is shivering to its concrete foundation".

Posted on October 17, 2013 at 07:19 AM by terry Highlight this comment 781

3 - Killebrew
6 - Oliva
28 - Blyleven
34 - Puckett
42 - Robinson

29 - Carew

Those were my five white ball numbers last night for the Powerball and my red Powerball was 29...had the 6 been a 26, I would have won $1 million! Instead, I won $100...still a very nice prize for picking retired Twins numbers!

Posted on October 17, 2013 at 11:11 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 782

You play those same #'s every time Mike?

Posted on October 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 783

Wonder if the head groundskeeper at Dodger Stadium could be coaxed up here? Man that field looks fantastic don't it?

Posted on October 17, 2013 at 1:54 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 784

Twinkfan - I have played the retired numbers before off and on. Usually only buy one ticket/week and get a quick pick ticket more often than not.

After hearing of the KC Royals story relating to the $587 million Powerball jackpot in November 2012...two winning tickets were sold...Missouri and Arizona (home of KC Royals Spring Training). The winning numbers for that drawing were all retired Royals players leaving some to believe those jackpot winners may have picked their own numbers. Not sure if it was ever confirmed or not.

Now I use retired numbers at times when I decide to pick my own numbers. Just another way to have some fun with it.

Posted on October 17, 2013 at 2:40 PM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 785

I hate the baseball offseason. We have like nothing to talk about around here. HOWEVER groundbreaking on USBS happens in less than a month.

Posted on October 20, 2013 at 9:37 PM by luke Highlight this comment 786

Luke what is USBS? You like the beards or the cards in the series! I forgot who I took! We could talk grounds crew?

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 10:26 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 787

USBS = Luke's wild imagination that US Bank will have naming rights at the new Vikings stadium. (US Bank Stadium) The line on that one has be to be about 100-1.

This postseason has been good, with many dramatic games, but I wish the WS involved Dodgers or Pirates. They were the two teams I found myself interested in watching. Cards are the NL Yankees to me.

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 10:35 AM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 788

While it's not a sure thing, obviously, the odds are considerably better than 100:1.

People tend to forget that it was the president of US Bank who brokered the deal which ultimately resulted in the stadium bill.

And some suspect that Wells Fargo attached their name (in an uncommitted fashion) to the Ryan development as a form corporate blackmail (as in, either we get the naming rights or we don't build our building next to the stadium).

As such, I'd put each of these two big banks at 3:1 for the naming of the new stadium.

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 11:28 AM by Rick 789

Although Wells Fargo is kind of a Minnesota company, since Norwest Corporation bought Wells Fargo, I would prefer a more "Minnesota" identified company to get the naming rights. One with it's headquarters in Minnesota, something like: 3M, Best Buy, General Mills, Medtronic, Mayo Clinic, etc.

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 12:31 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 790

Dave - USBank IS headquartered in Minnesota. As is it's holding company, US Bancorp.

Mayo Clinic could be interesting. Mayo Stadium? Sounds like Kraft Miracle Whip would come before it. Not great.
3M is a nice possibility. I had always hoped 3M would get the naming rights for the Dome.
I doubt Mall of America will pick up the multi-million dollar tag for naming rights on the new place. Maybe an entrance gate. But I don't think we'll see MOA Field II.

I gotta go with the Cards in the WS.

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 1:13 PM by luke Highlight this comment 791

I vote for Marlboro Stadium for aren't we doing the Ciggs for Ziggs anyways? Smoke it and it will come. Course at $8.50 a pack who is still smoking? Man I remember my first back like it was yesterday. Summer of 65 in the Laundry mat. Put 35 cents in and out came a pack of smokes. Smoked the whole pack got sick and never touched a smoke again!

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 1:27 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 792

I'm not opposed to USBank Stadium, I just don't like USBank.

It'll probably end up being Mystic Lake Stadium. Largest Wigwam in North America!

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 2:55 PM by Dave Highlight this comment 793

I see the Dodgers being more comparable to the Yanks, at least as far as trying to buy a championship. They just don't have the results. The Cardinals have refused some big $ contracts and made great replacements (Pujols walks, bring in Beltran, let Lohse go, develop some pitching). They seem to have a solid minors program. If only the Twins were more like them...

I may have some bias as I have family in MO. Go Cards!

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 3:53 PM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 794

Not sure the NFL would be pleased to have a casino as a naming sponsor. The NFL probably would construe that as a bad image for the league. Mystic could probably get naming for a Club/Suite level or a gate however. The same could be said about Marlboro Stadium...bad image...lol.

Although Marlboro Stadium does have that roll-off-your-tongue kind of sound. It IS catchy. Of course, MLB has a couple parks named after beer companies, so maybe Marlboro isn't THAT bad an image after all.

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 7:13 PM by luke Highlight this comment 795

Isn't it illegal for tobacco companies to advertise? As I recall, the NASCAR cup was named after a tobacco sponsor about 20 years ago (Was it Winston?), and with the passage of the law banning tobacco advertisements, it required a new sponsor.

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 8:50 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 796

Winona, I believe Winston is correct. I think its the Nextel Cup now?? Not sure.

Posted on October 21, 2013 at 9:54 PM by luke Highlight this comment 797

Watching Josh Freeman last night I was reminded of the old line about Rex Barney, the control-challenged pitcher for the post-WWII Dodgers. "If home plate were high and outside, he'd win twenty games every year".

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 08:20 AM by terry Highlight this comment 798

Sprint Cup ever since Sprint bought Nextel a few years ago.

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 08:27 AM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 799

Paul Molitor to Join Minnesota Twins Coaching Staff

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 11:57 AM by trebor651 Highlight this comment 800

Well well well...glad to see Molitor is on board with the Twins, very pleased. Now go get some pitching!

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 12:01 PM by tk Highlight this comment 801

Trebor, looks like we were seeing the news at the same time.

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 12:06 PM by tk Highlight this comment 802

In case anyone is interested here are some of the public art ideas for the Target Field Station.

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 803

I hope those public art ideas are an april fools joke oh wait it isnt april.

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 1:10 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 804

Molitor will be handling base running, bunting and infield instruction for the club-the same position he has held w/ our minor league teams since 2005. Our current team is loaded w/ minor leaguers who received instruction from him. How has that gone? This is not quite as exciting a move to me.

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 1:15 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 805

As for the World Series: Fear the Beards. Sox in 6.

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 4:44 PM by BR Highlight this comment 806

Maybe he wasn't done talking to them. Most should still be in the minors anyway.

Posted on October 22, 2013 at 4:46 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 807

It snowed here last night; must be time for the World Series.

Posted on October 23, 2013 at 06:58 AM by terry Highlight this comment 808

Interesting chart from a study on value of teams by Bloomberg. Twins place 19th, largely because they have no regional sports network (or other related business, or parking revenue). That's a distinct disadvantage for them, I think, although StL has managed well enough with a similar lack of related revenue sources. The Twins are still worth far more than Cleveland or KC but lag Chicago and Detroit.

Note that Det's total revenue was $245M and the Twins' $215M. ESPN lists Det's payroll at $148M for this past season, Minn's at just $75M. In its zeal to buy a WS winner, Detroit is probably overextended a bit. But the Twins pretty clearly have some room to add payroll. (StL was at $250M revenue/$105M payroll. Their revenue stems from tremendous attendance #s. Good teams get that, of course...)

Posted on October 23, 2013 at 09:23 AM by BR Highlight this comment 809

Hmmm...what happened to the Twins having a payroll of 50-55% of gross revenues? That should mean a payroll of $107-$118 million. Add on the extra $30 million they will be getting in TV revenue this year, we can assume a payroll of around $140 million, right?

Posted on October 23, 2013 at 09:50 AM by FD Highlight this comment 810

Well...with fewer and fewer people wanting to pay to see a AA ball club, that's got to pick away at projected revenue too doesn't it??

Posted on October 23, 2013 at 3:42 PM by luke Highlight this comment 811

How did Bud Selig let this happen in the World Series? No, not the alleged ball doctoring. Game 2 was played in just over 3 hours! Even that is a bit long but certainly better than some of the playoff games that dragged on and on.

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 08:04 AM by Stevie B Highlight this comment 812

Here's a great article about all of the groovy gear at AT&T Park. (I found it fascinating, but it may be for geeks only...)

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 09:49 AM by Rick 813

Interesting line in that article:

“The electronic boards give us the flexibility to do dynamic pricing on our food if we want to,” says Ken Logan, senior IT director for the Giants.

Dynamic ticket pricing and now dynamic food pricing. I sometimes do dynamic seating, static imaging (dynamic imaging is pretty frowned upon) and in the case of this season, dynamic enjoying.

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 11:29 AM by jared Highlight this comment 814

New Falcons Stadium aka "The Sphincter".

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 11:53 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 815

If that was a geek check, you got me:

Stadium:


Over-sized, destructive alien:


Posted on October 25, 2013 at 12:11 PM by Rick 816

Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979)

(That's Spock, at right, headed out to attempt a mind-meld, perhaps with 65,000 Falcons fans. *shudder*)

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM by Rick 817

Nice Trek reference, Rick.

On a completely different note, anyone know if 'they' will be selling seats before they tear down the dome? A friend was/is a huge fan of the place, I'm curious if any of those blue plastic seats will be for sale...

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 4:13 PM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 818

FTK I believe there was a Star Tribune article about this. The issue is that they have a relatively short window of time from when the last game is played until demolition starts IIRC.

I've often wondered why they couldn't just put each seat, and everything else for that matter, on Ebay and sell it to the highest bidder.

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 7:30 PM by jctwins Highlight this comment 819

I am taking four seats for sure. And I got dibs on the "golden seat"

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 9:51 PM by luke Highlight this comment 820

Here's what I've read so far about Metrodome demolition. I have to believe they'll hire one of those scavenger firms to get every last dollar out of the building before knocking it down.

But, do you really want one of those demoralizing plastic blue seats?

If I could have anything, I think it would be, uh, hmm. Nope. Nothing.

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 10:58 PM by Rick 821

I'd like to have the plunger used to demolish that miserable pile.

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 11:10 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 822

I'd like the door to the manager's office that Kyle Lohse bashed in.

Posted on October 25, 2013 at 11:14 PM by FD Highlight this comment 823

Well...as far as the seats, I mean...sentimental value people might want one of those demoralizing blue seats. Say you went to SB XXVI or one of the Final Fours or the 2 WS that were there...perhaps you take the seat you sat in during one of those events.

Posted on October 26, 2013 at 12:54 PM by luke Highlight this comment 824

Minnesota 34 Nebraska 23! It isn't 84 - 13, but all of us who remember that debacle will sleep very well tonight!!

Posted on October 26, 2013 at 2:40 PM by terry Highlight this comment 825

1983 at the HHHumpty Dump. I have only read stories about that game. Lots of evil spirits from that place will be exorcised very soon.

Posted on October 27, 2013 at 3:44 PM by luke Highlight this comment 826

I've sat in the same two seats at the Dome for Vikings games going back to the 1990s. It may seem cheesy, but I want them when it closes, not just the blue plastic, but the metal parts too so I can anchor them to something.

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 11:13 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 827

Different strokes for different folks.

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 828

I know sometimes (and I believe there is an internet site) teams do sell seats from defunct stadiums (stadiumseating.net is one).

They do go up for sale by the team on the teams website or what not (I think the NY Mets and Yankees did that when they tore down Shea and OYS respectively). I wonder if they authenticate where the seats were taken from and how they do it? I'm sure Jorge can just crowbar his own seats out on Dec 29.

But say someone wrote to MSFA/Vikings for seats in a specific location, or if they were sold online, how the Vikings would authenticate the location they were taken from?

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM by luke Highlight this comment 829

There are now salvage companies which specialize in getting every last dollar from sports collectors whenever a stadium is torn down. You want a trough? I bet you'll be able to buy one.

The MSFA would be foolish not to hire one of those companies. (Whoever did it for Old Yankee Stadium took it to a completely new level, and made a ton of money in the process.)

That doesn't necessarily mean that they will offer exactly what someone is looking for (say, the exact seat you sat in). But it does mean that anyone wanting to buy something will get a chance, and they'll keep selling until either it's all gone or people stop buying.

And somebody mentioned the Puckett golden seat, but you can forget about that. It was removed long ago by the Twins. (I had the good fortune to be sitting in it for the last MLB game ever at the Dome -- the 2009 playoff loss to the Yankees.)

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 2:30 PM by Rick 830

I agree with the "take nothing" approach. The Dome is a horror show of memories for me in many respects and the good ones I do have are not in any way improved by any piece of "history" I could buy from that place.

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 3:10 PM by GoAUpher Highlight this comment 831

Where is the Golden Seat now? I think it was just a seat back wasn't it?
I remember you had a post showing off your being in that seat.was that just by chance? How did you end up sitting there?

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 3:10 PM by luke Highlight this comment 832

Friends in the right places. See this post.

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 3:16 PM by Rick 833

Did you guys see that Target Center is getting a $97 million makeover? Too bad they didn't agree to this a few years ago, they could have had it up and running for the ASG next year.

Just think about how soon we will have relatively new TF and TCFBS, renovated TC, new lowertown Saints ballpark, and new Vikings stadium. All in less than 10 years time. WOW!

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 5:48 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 834

Yup, that was the post. Just couldn't remember which one it was. Did you say you've been working on a new one??

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 8:28 PM by luke Highlight this comment 835

When the Vikings stadium was approved, the accompanying Target Center package was announced as worth $135,000,000. Today's renovation package is valued at $97,000,000. I assume the missing $38,000,000 is going towards paying down the bonds, but I've asked the team directly for an explanation.

A common refrain about Target Center is "close it and have the Wolves and other events go to the Xcel Center". The problems with that are multiple. Downtown Minneapolis needs an arena and the events it brings in. The Wolves have a lot of downtown Minneapolis corporate season ticket holders who won't follow them to St. Paul. The Xcel Energy Center's sightlines are hockey oriented and while not at a Twins in the Dome level, they don't lend themselves well to hoops. Meanwhile, every dime of revenue in that building is tied up. There's no money room for the Wolves, the exact reason the Stars couldn't come downtown in the early 1990s and why the Wild needed their own place.

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 9:34 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 836

Jorge, you are right in that the X is not conducive to basketball. I saw one of the early HS bball tournamwnts there (before they moved to TCenter). Sightlines were awful, even in the lower level. Court seemed so far away. I know a lot of NHL and NBA teams share arenas, but those arenas were built with the purpose of accomodating both sports, whereas the X was designed to be primarily for hockey.

Posted on October 28, 2013 at 10:03 PM by luke Highlight this comment 837

As the only stadium in this state for the first 36 years of my life I would definitely take four or five blue chairs for my basement. Maybe a swatch of the Baggie.

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 12:42 AM by Duffman Highlight this comment 838

That was supposed to be 26 years.

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 12:43 AM by Duffman Highlight this comment 839

When I was younger. I remember my best friends neighbor has four seats from the old Met mounted in his back yard. They were pretty cool to look at, being that was the only connection to the Met I had...as I never got to go there in person :(

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 06:09 AM by luke Highlight this comment 840

I received my e-mail this morning that as a STH I will get a CHANCE at a free pair of tickets for Twinsfest.

Sigh, apparently they still haven't figured this one out...

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 09:14 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 841

Another STH benefit gone...

Not to mention they are increasing the price of admission to $20 for adults and $10 for children 14 and under...what a joke.

Then to expect people to pay anywhere from $10-$35 for autographs? Parking? Food?

Can't wait to pay my $20 and another $20 to get my Kevin Correira or Trevor Plouffe autograph! I guess I will have to try to get a ticket to the autograph party in June....oh wait, they no longer have the autograph party either...The Twins continue to be a joke both on and off the field. But at least they are hosting the 2014 All Star Game!!!

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 10:33 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 842

It really is bordering on ineptitude at running a business and taking care of your client base. Mike is adding additional good points I hadn't even thought of.

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 10:47 AM by jctwins Highlight this comment 843

The move to TF seems logical, but the pricing decision is puzzling.

There was a mention that they will be limiting ticket sales, probably because there isn't as much room to roam. So I wonder if the price hike might also be part of that strategy.

Sad to say, but I think it pretty much prices our family out of the event.

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 10:52 AM by Rick 844

I sent an e-mail to the MSFA a month ago asking about getting 2-3 seats, and got this response:

"A final decision has not been made regarding the distribution of the Metrodome assets. I will add you to a contact list of people requesting information. Please keep checking our website at www.msfa.com for information."

Like some of the rest up-thread, I'm also thinking they'll be some Dome memorabilia giveaway happening, whether they're for sale or general pick-up or whatever. A few hundred or thousand plastic seats taken by memorabilia seekers and organizations looking for small/novelty ballpark seating takes away that much more stuff that needs to be thrown away/recycled.

For what it's worth, those seats would add to my Metrodome "collection" of a piece of roof fabric post-collapse and a square of the 1987-95 AstroTurf.

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 10:59 AM by hofflalu Highlight this comment 845

It's worth noting that those Metrodome seats are in really remarkable shape -- nothing like the worn, bent, cracked and faded seats that came out of Met Stadium. These may actually be resalable in large numbers to someone outfitting an arena somewhere (assuming they don't care about, or can figure out a way to mitigate, the Metrodome logo on the ends of the aisles).

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 11:10 AM by Rick 846

If they let the average persons like us in there with sledge hammers to help knock down the dome I would be all for that.

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 5:20 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 847

Jorge,
I don think there is an "additional $38 million" in the TC deal. When the Vikings got their deal it did not lock in the Wolves TC deal. They were working on a deal but still negotiating, the end result is what was just announced. In one article I read it talked about the price differences as being option A ($150M) option B ($135M) and option C (approximately $100M). But all of these options were different levels or tiers of the same plan. Given they say that within a month they are putting together a committee to start figuring out final design. As in "throw out the renderings you've seen, we're starting from scratch." I wonder who is on the hook if the budget needs to increase?

As far as Dome seats go, I'd love to have one to go with my LC seat back from TF.

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 10:11 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 848

Maybe they can let everyone in to take their sledgehammer swings at the old dump like they brought in fans to help scoop snow out of TCF Bank for the MNF game?

Might help bring some of that overall cost down too!

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 11:26 PM by jared Highlight this comment 849

Hmm, I was willing to help when I thought a plunger and dynamite would be involved. But a sledgehammer? Unpoetic.

And how fitting? A building that never sang, never soared, never had even a moment's aspiration toward anything but squat mediocrity, should go down in such a pedestrian, workmanlike and unsatisfying way. Instead of one glorious burst of pyrotechnics and cheers, it will be months of methodical drops of a wrecking ball. Ho hum.

That place just keeps on taking away the fun, doesn't it? (Perhaps the construction fences will be close enough for people to relieve their, uh, "miseries" on the piles of rubble.)

Posted on October 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM by Rick 850

I suppose with construction so close...maybe they can't do a planned demolition?? They'll HAVE to take it down piece by piece? I still remember December 13 1994 when they tried to bring Met Center down. A building built in only 13 months. Three walls in essence were still standing after all the pyros...lol. a moment a North Stars fan like me will never forget.

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 05:38 AM by luke Highlight this comment 851

I was in Seattle when the Kingdome, the only facility capable of challenging the Metrodome for the title of worst baseball venue ever, was imploded. All I could do was dream of the day that would happen to the Metrodome.

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 07:21 AM by terry Highlight this comment 852

They said they could not do a controlled implosion of the Metrodome due to the fact that construction of the new facility will already be underway on the east side of the Metrodome.

They also said they wanted to avoid all of the dust/debris in surrounding neighborhoods caused by an implosion.

My question to that is how could they do that in downtown Indianapolis when they imploded the RCA Dome?

As far as demolition of the Metrodome, they said it should only take about a month or so to tear it down section by section starting in the NE Corner near gate B and moving around the west and south sides and finishing near gate D and C on the south/east side. There is an animation out there on the Star Tribune website courtesy of Mortenson Construction that shows the entire process. Very interesting to see if you are able to find it.

Anyone know why I always get this error message when trying to post? I have tried both Firefox and IE and have consistently had troubles posting over the last few weeks.

Oops! Something's not quite right with your request.

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 09:42 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 853

Mike,

That message means you've triggered the spam filters, one of which simply prevents anyone from posting who looks like they are viewing their very first page ever on the site.

From the log, it looks like your browser is set to clear cookies after each session (or maybe use anonymous browsing). You can still post, but you'll have to refresh your page at least once first to get the site to recognize that you are a real person. (If cookies are disabled altogether, however, even that won't work.)

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 10:46 AM by Rick 854

Thanks Rick! That is very good to know

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 10:50 AM by Mike (aka Mike) Highlight this comment 855

Well and we knew a few snowflakes could bring it down before also! LOL!

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 3:23 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 856

Mike- good question about RCA Dome. What's more, RCA Dome was attached to the Indianapolis Convention Center.
I remember the implosion of the Met Center in 1994...20k pounds of TNT...and three walls still stood after the dust settled...lol

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 5:16 PM by luke Highlight this comment 857

Ground breaking in November with a planned completion before the first exhibition game in August 2016. That’s 33 months to build what appears to be a very ambitious, domed stadium project. Even with no delays due to material shortages, strikes, or accidents, that seems like an almost unrealistic deadline. Anyone want to bet the Vikings are still playing at the U into the 2016 season?

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 858

Oh! I forgot; LOL!

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 8:20 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 859

33 months is about right. FCS that's almost three years. That's about the timetable for other recent stadiums.

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 10:02 PM by luke Highlight this comment 860

The only trouble I can see is the state not having enough money to pay its share of the cost of the stadium since e pulltabs tanked.

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 10:29 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 861

No 3 peat for me in the playoff challenge. Things were looking good after Game 3 for me but fell apart after that. We'll get 'em next year.

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 10:36 PM by FD Highlight this comment 862

Yep, the results are in. Congratulations, twinkfan!

I know this is an old thread, but a former Twin, a player tossed on the scrap heap over a decade ago, has now propelled another team to three World Series wins -- this time as the series MVP.

Boy, you talk about the one that got away. They don't get any bigger than this.

Do we now face the "curse of Big Papi" for the next 86 years?

Posted on October 30, 2013 at 10:54 PM by Rick 863

Thanks Rick! Can you forward the major award prize to Larry Boy our beloved groundskeeper? LOL! Yep old TK thought that Ortiz would never hit balls to the opposite field and could not stay healthy!

Posted on October 31, 2013 at 09:00 AM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 864

Congratulations, Twinkfan. You were the only person to pick the winner in every playoff series. That's impressive!

Posted on October 31, 2013 at 09:37 AM by F_T_K Highlight this comment 865

I realize that as long as there is television it's not going to happen, but I would dearly love to see World Series games played during the day in early October rather than at night at the end of October. There is a complete telecast of game 3 of the 1957 series out on the internet. Sunshine, the slightly longer shadows than those seen in mid-summer and a crowd wearing sweaters and sweatshirts instead of parkas. It is a beautiful sight. The series is is after all "The Fall Classic", not "The Early Winter Classic".

Posted on October 31, 2013 at 10:33 AM by terry Highlight this comment 866

I wouldn't worry about Big Papi. How he has for the most part sailed beneath the PED curtain for so long and gotten a free pass from just about everyone is beyond me. If that guy's legitimately never done PEDs in his life then I'm the Holiday hot dog king.

Posted on October 31, 2013 at 12:21 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 867

Oh, I forgot: FCOL!

Posted on October 31, 2013 at 12:22 PM by TheTruthHurts Highlight this comment 868

Thanks FTK! Pure Genius on my part no doubt! The Truth there is only one Holiday dog king and we all know who it is! Indeed! FCOL!

Posted on October 31, 2013 at 2:58 PM by Twinkfan Highlight this comment 869

You know, I'm having a hard time sharing the utter disdain for the Dome that others here express. I'm actually extremely annoyed that its' being torn down - imo, it's another example of Minneapolis's inability to preserve, well, almost anything.

It's boring, unimaginative, and lousy as a modern-day football palace, but it's been inexpensive and useful - classic Minnesota virtues. People seem to forget what an enormous home field advantage the Dome gave the Twins in 87 and 91. It was literally intimidating to other teams, with unheard of crowd noise reaching jet plane decibels and fly balls that disappeared into thin Teflon air. It was good enough to bring a Super Bowl and Final Four here, keeping Minnesota on the national sports map.

The Dome has been a great place for youth and college teams to play. It's perfect for winter/early spring baseball tournaments and HS football playoff games, and would remain so, if we could have come up with ANY other place to build the new stadium. But no, a perfectly functional facility that's in decent structural shape and already is a "people's stadium" must be gleefully torn down. It's a damn waste.

And by the way, Tampa's "ballpark" is far worse than the Dome.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 08:50 AM by BR Highlight this comment 870

Terry or anyone else here, refresh my memory: I do believe Game 2 of the 1987 WS was a day game?? I think that may have been the only one in recent history?

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 1:07 PM by luke Highlight this comment 871

Terry, regarding your desire to see a daytime World Series game, the last Fall Classic game to be played in the afternoon was Game 6 of the 1987 World Series between the Twins and Cardinals. Game time was 3:00 PM Central at the Metrodome. Game 6 of the 1988 World Series would have been played at 1:00 PM Pacific between the Dodgers and A's in Los Angeles. However, the Dodgers wrapped things up in five games. No World Series games have been or scheduled in the afternoon since.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 1:22 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 872

"been played or scheduled..." that should have read.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 1:25 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 873

BR, I agree with you on some of the virtues of the Metrodome. While the dome was a terrible place to see baseball on a lovely summer day, like you I admire it's workman-like virtues. It was so very Midwestern Practical and reasonably financed. The use it got by regular folks sets a precedent that the purple palace must follow.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 874

BR,

I do actually agree that tearing down the Dome is a waste. Not only are the seats in remarkably good condition, but the whole place is built like a tank. The mechanical systems are aging rather badly, and the place would need major renovation within 10 years even without professional sports being played there (though not the roof!), but as civic buildings go, it could still certainly provide years, if not decades, of very valuable service.

But I do not have any sentimental feelings toward it even for the home field advantages it brought us. Truthfully, I've always felt a little bit embarrassed about that -- as if the only way our teams could win was to build a stadium so perplexing and overwhelming to opposing teams that you had to play there for five years (as the Twins did) before getting a feel for the place.

Believe it or not, I actually feel the same about the Green Monster. Fortunately, with a century under its belt, pretty much everybody out there knows what to expect when they arrive in Boston. Still, I think it put the Cardinals at a disadvantage that is sort of arbitrary, offset to a certain extent by a similar disadvantage for the Red Sox in St. Louis: no DH. (Luckily, neither piece made much of a difference in this Series.)

People argue, "Anything for the win," but I don't really accept that. The win is hollow if conditions are inherently unfair to one team. I've never really forgiven Denny Green for pumping extra crowd noise into the Dome just because he could. To me, that's not good sportsmanship. (The question of whether the air blowers helped the Twins is one for the ages...)

The net result is this sort of unfortunate perception in the larger world of baseball that both of the Twins' WS wins were somehow "cheap" ('91 significantly less so than '87). Folks are fond of pointing out the the '87 team had won the least number of games in the regular season of any WS champion to that point (since eclipsed by the 2006 Cardinals, though that often gets attributed not to some home field advantage, but the watered-down playoff structure).

The Dome was just never a baseball place, and while I love that we won there, I've always felt like the building itself was so ill-conceived for baseball that even the best baseball memories seem somehow, I don't know, tainted.

Time distorts all memories, however. And I think these feelings are likely to pass once the place is gone. I suspect that 10 years from now we'll all look back much more fondly than we do now.

That puts you ahead of the curve, BR.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 1:49 PM by Rick 875

Rick:
I'm not sure my feelings toward the Dome will ever quite reach sentimentality! As for the advantages the Dome gave the Twins and Vikes... Crowd noise is part of the game and fine. some parks hold it better than others; domes better than open-air ballparks. That's fair in my book. Denny Green's artificial noise? I agree - not acceptable. That does cross into inherently unfair. But I think your definition is too broad.

A big part of the particular charm of baseball is that the parks are different. It imbues each park with a unique sense of place. I love the quirky dimensions of Fenway, or NY's RF porch. I wish the overhang at TF was even more pronounced.

If such lack of uniformity gives the home team an advantage - the cloudy Dome roof for the Twins - so be it. The Dome's features were not so different from spacious foul territory boosting a pitching-dominant team's chances, etc. Smart teams will even tailor their rosters to maximize the advantage their park gives them. I like that.

True home field advantages exist in other sports, too, such as hockey, where teams with smaller rinks will emphasize puck control or hitting and teams in bigger arenas, speed, etc.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 4:42 PM by BR Highlight this comment 876

BR,

I think we agree on the concept if not the scope. Uniformity is certainly an enemy. Idiosyncrasies, if not artificial, are always welcome in ballparks. Defining "artificial" in this context can be very difficult.

I always thought of the roof color as essentially anti-baseball, and thus over the line. Same, for me, with the noise and the turf and the speakers in fair territory. But I think that how you feel about these elements will always be a personal taste sort of thing. There are no hard and fast rules.

You're going to have to help me understand what constitutes a "smaller rink". Aren't they all the same size?

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 4:59 PM by Rick 877

Rinks and swimming pools - size matters.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 5:44 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 878

There are two different rink sizes standard which is smaller and olympic which is bigger. The ice center in Plymouth actually has both. Im not sure what size the NHL uses.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 6:03 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 879

NHL = 200' long by 85' wide.

Olympic = 200' long by 100' wide.

Which is why hockey is better on the Olympic sheets, and why the NHL will never go there.

There is also more center ice on Olympic sheets given where they put the blue lines, which helps keep skating at a premium as well -- at least I think it helps.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 6:45 PM by Lincster Highlight this comment 880

Is the rink at Mariucci Arena an Olympic size rink? On the telly, it looks wider to me. Of course, it could just be the camera angle creating the illusion that the rink is bigger, and it's the NHL 200x85.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 7:20 PM by luke Highlight this comment 881

Mariucci Arena has a 200x100 ice sheet.

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 9:04 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 882

Wait, I thought all NHL rinks were the same size. Is this not true?

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 9:11 PM by Rick 883

Yes, this is true. All 30 NHL teams play on 200 x 85 ice. I do believe, either Maple Leaf Gardens or Boston Garden before the new building was built had a smaller-than-NHL-standard rink. I think it was The Gah-den in Baw-ston

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 10:25 PM by luke Highlight this comment 884

Upon research, Baw-ston Gah-dens rink was 191 x 83

Posted on November 1, 2013 at 10:33 PM by luke Highlight this comment 885

Buffalo's old home arena also had a undersized ice sheet.

Posted on November 2, 2013 at 08:23 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 886

As did the old Chicago Stadium for the Blackhawks, which was only 185' long, and of course that always came up in conversation if the North Stars were having trouble winning in Chicago that year.

And yes, Mariucci is 200X100, which is another reason it really is a great place to see hockey.

Posted on November 2, 2013 at 08:56 AM by Lincster Highlight this comment 887

On Thursday I received the first mass-update e-mail from the MSFA about Metrodome items. They said the first items for auction are now available, including a skid steer, lawn mowers, picnics tables and more -- other rounds of auction items will be coming. As for what most of us are looking forward to, the e-mail reiterated that info about seat sales would be coming at a later date.

Click the link to get YOUR Metrodome John Deere skid steer while you can.

Posted on November 2, 2013 at 11:51 AM by hofflalu Highlight this comment 888

I wish they would burn that mf'er to the ground.

Posted on November 2, 2013 at 9:29 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 889

Why did they need lawn mowers for the Metrodome? Did Larry Boy practice on the artificial turf??

Dre - I am applying to MSFA to be the one that pushes the button for the inaugural swing of the wrecking ball into the Inflatable Sardine Can.

Are any of you old enough to remember the demolition of the Met Center? 20-some thousand pounds of explosives and three walls were still standing after the dust settled??

Posted on November 2, 2013 at 9:43 PM by luke Highlight this comment 890

For the landscaping outside, I suppose.

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 08:03 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 891

Wish they could hurry up with the groundbreaking already. It's supposed to be in mid-November, it's already November and no groundbreaking date yet. I want to see shovels in the ground so I don'thave to worry about any of the four teams relocating for a very long time.

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 10:15 AM by gus munger Highlight this comment 892

Four? Twolves aren't going anywhere. Twins aren't going anywhere. Gophers are part of a state-run college. Who do you think is relocating?

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 10:47 AM by luke Highlight this comment 893

Until the shovels hit the ground it could still happen to Vikings, not very likely, but I'd like the final nail in the relocation threat coffin hammered in by having the groundbreaking happen.

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 3:22 PM by gus munger Highlight this comment 894

Oakland and Tampa can worry about losing there teams for once.

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 3:23 PM by gus munger Highlight this comment 895

Tampa?? Raymond James is a fairly decent stadium...I can't see them relocating. Unless there are other financial problems. Oakland I can see...moving to LA...again.

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 6:14 PM by luke Highlight this comment 896

I was more referring to the Rays, as well as the Raiders and A's.

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 7:56 PM by gus munger Highlight this comment 897

I've been hanging around the Field Of Schemes website too much lately, kind of nice being close to not having to worry about relocating teams for once. Just one groundbreaking away from the headache being over.

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 7:59 PM by gus munger Highlight this comment 898

No NFL team is going anywhere in the foreseeable future. This is widely acknowledged by analysts everywhere. The forces are all wrong.

These threats are completely fabricated to bludgeon governments to pay for stadiums. And they work -- but only because lawmakers are easily spooked and make decisions based on fear. (They also tend to be largely ignorant of the nuances of issues they vote on. Hate to say that, but it's the truth.)

Even some legislators here who voted for the stadium now acknowledge that they were duped.

But rest easy. Nothing can stop this train, regardless of when the official groundbreaking is held.

Posted on November 3, 2013 at 9:16 PM by Rick 899

Could not remember if this Forbes article was referenced here. Interesting take on the effect of TV / Regional Sports Networks on future baseball relocation.

Posted on November 4, 2013 at 08:53 AM by Raging Peasants Highlight this comment 900

That's certainly an interesting article, even if there's nothing really new there.

Basically, he's making the case for revoking the antitrust exemption that baseball has had for so long. And it comes down to this: Either baseball is a collection of independent businesses, separate but operating in parallel, or it's one big business with 30 "divisions" (the word "cartel" comes to mind). Officially it's the former, while practically it's the latter. (As soon as you start creating exclusive territories, you are engaged in inherently anti-competitive behavior. This is only a problem if you are operating as separate companies. If it's one big company, no problem at all.)

The implications of this question are many, and they run straight into the questions about these regional media contracts. By all rights the smaller market owners should already be up in arms about how the territory rules work and how all this money will be split (or not), but there are limits to how much they can say under the existing structure. Any complaints would argue for understanding the whole sport as a cartel (or, if you're a Steinbrenner, "socialism"), and nobody really wants that -- except maybe the fans, but who cares about them, right?

What is yet to be reckoned with, however, is the inevitable drying up of these monster broadcasting deals as the television picture continues to fracture. Already the public can live without these regional sports networks (I do, and quite happily), and you can even live without the bundles of channels sold by the cable companies. Thank you, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, et. al.

The grotesque cable model is gradually breaking down, and the RSNs will be the big losers when it finally does, which is why they're paying so much for exclusive sports in the first place. It's not going to last forever. One could easily read what's going on as the last great gasp of a dying industry (cable TV, not baseball).

Then you have the issue of extortion in public funding of professional sports facilities. It's another reason why Congress is eventually going to have to reevaluate the exemption, even if superficially.

I think that the best case may actually be for the individual owners to sell to MLB and run the sport as one big business. Then you could easily see expansion on a regular basis without any territorial concerns. You would also see a more level financial playing field, and reasons to build interest in the sport as a whole rather than just in, say, the Yankees and Red Sox.

It breaks my heart that TV ratings are so much greater when either of those two teams is in the World Series. It just shouldn't matter. And I know the reasons aren't all about market size, though that's a big part of it. But there's also this piece about MLB not properly selling the game as a whole, relying largely on piecemeal efforts of the individual clubs. It need not be that way...

Posted on November 4, 2013 at 1:27 PM by Rick 901

Rick - can you tell us more about the book you are working on?

Posted on November 6, 2013 at 02:19 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 902

If Soucheray's column is correct, the Washington Redskins were originally the Boston Braves, then became Redskins when moving into Fenway and sharing with the Red Sox.
A lot of "dual-purpose" parks in the old days.

Posted on November 6, 2013 at 8:38 PM by robin Highlight this comment 903

I wonder if Fenway was worse for football than Wrigley

Posted on November 6, 2013 at 9:43 PM by luke Highlight this comment 904

From the Twins:

"Minnesota Twins catcher Joe Mauer was awarded a 2013 American League Silver Slugger Award presented by Louisville Slugger on Wednesday.

Mauer hit 11 home runs, drove in 62 runs and registered a .476 slugging percentage in 2013. This marks Mauer's fifth time receiving this Major League award."

The team failed to mention, however, that Mauer also had to send in five bubblegum wrappers.

Posted on November 6, 2013 at 10:58 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 905

"I wonder if Fenway was worse for football than Wrigley"

Better, by just a few feet. Fenway had room for the whole field, while Wrigley did not.

Posted on November 7, 2013 at 04:01 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 906

More than alf of an American League batting order could be made up of Silver Slugger winners who are current or form Twins; Mauer, Ortiz, Cuddyer, Hunter & Hardy.

Posted on November 7, 2013 at 12:19 PM by trebor651 Highlight this comment 907

Sorry "former"

Posted on November 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM by trebor651 Highlight this comment 908

So...we all know that Joe is a good hitter, but that list makes me wonder if he might be an even greater hitter in a different organization.

Or is it that the Twins are (were) especially good at teaching people how to hit?

Posted on November 7, 2013 at 12:25 PM by Rick 909

We need a new entry. Sifting single file on my phone took 25 minutes to get to the bottom of 909 comments. Dirt turning in a week.

Posted on November 7, 2013 at 12:50 PM by luke Highlight this comment 910

I remember Ortiz publicly criticized the Twins approach w/ him for hitting (cannot remember if it was to SI or Boston media but the Strib brings it up once in awhile). He viewed himself as a power hitter and he said that the Twins tried to change his approach at the plate and spray the ball around the field more. When he went to the Red Sox they threw that approach out the window and told him to hit naturally the way he was used to and the rest is history.

Posted on November 7, 2013 at 6:04 PM by Uffda Highlight this comment 911

Trebor651 - Cuddy is with the Rockies. :)

Posted on November 8, 2013 at 04:28 AM by Jfh Highlight this comment 912

I'm looking for a baseball AND football seating chart/schematic design of the Metrodome that's as accurate as possible. I'm attempting to do an overlay of the Metrodome with the new Viking stadium schematic to see what parts of the field "overlap" (I know the depth of the field varies between the stadiums, so it's not a perfect overlap). Most of the seating charts online seem to vary by a bit -- and finding a baseball one is, obviously, particularly tough.

Posted on November 8, 2013 at 08:29 AM by hofflalu Highlight this comment 913

Cuddy isn't with the Twins?

Posted on November 8, 2013 at 10:25 AM by trebor651 Highlight this comment 914

Hey what do you know. A comment about the actual topic of the Saints Lowertown Ballpark.

Sounds like there are concerns with the design. I have thought that the design seems nice but agree it didn't fit in Lowertown. Rick, I bet you could get a look at more advanced renderings.

Posted on November 8, 2013 at 9:01 PM by CSG Mike Highlight this comment 915

In the early days of pro football, the teams often adopted team names which identified with those of the baseball teams from whom they rented ballparks, e.g. New York Giants, Boston Braves/Redskins, Chicago Bears/Cubs, Detroit Lions/Tigers. Fenway was still being used by the then-Boston Patriots in the '60's. Please, no "Larry Boy" comments.

Posted on November 9, 2013 at 08:06 AM by terry Highlight this comment 916

That's true terry. On that same topic, who could forget the confusion of the St Louis Cardinals who played in old Busch Stadium, before the NFL Cardinals moved to Phoenix in 1988

Posted on November 9, 2013 at 09:52 AM by luke Highlight this comment 917

CSG...the outside of that place looks like the outside of a suburban office park only with big light towers. Doesn't look anything like a ballpark to me.

Posted on November 9, 2013 at 09:55 AM by luke Highlight this comment 918

How much do you all know about "who" makes the schedules for the MLB?

Believe it or not (I didn't know) a paper and pencil method by a husband and wife duo owned this responsibility until (apparently) fairly recently. Click name for the ESPN 30 for 30 short on it.

Pretty cool to see they beat out many prestigious schools with computer programs (who said it was impossible for the requirements, demands and variables) for so many years.

Posted on November 9, 2013 at 10:56 AM by jared Highlight this comment 919

Oh man...Jim and Pam Halpert moonlighted as MLB schedule makers huh? Glad a computer does it now.

Posted on November 9, 2013 at 12:27 PM by luke Highlight this comment 920

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"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3042 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.


You won't see much sky from these seats, but you'll always be warm



Plaza overview



An early concept drawing for the site



A view of construction from the B ramp. This looks toward Seventh Street, over what will be Gate 34 (the main entrance).









Photo by Jeff Ewer (Click to enlarge.)















Off-topic, but this gigantic, cool, retro sign is just across the street from S&CH. Why? I don't know. Might look nice on top of one of those municipal parking ramps...



First, an overview. The base of the plaza here will meet the base of Sixth Street at Second Avenue.






Do you know who did this drawing? If so, please tell me so I can give them proper credit.



Here is where the signature art (original Twins logo) will be placed.



A few weeks ago there were sand volleyball courts here. When the park opens, this will be surface parking. Maybe one day there will be something more interesting built on top of that parking...









Stairs wrap around the skyway escape tower. A very nice finishing touch.



Final Metrodome baseball sight









Looking north (toward Fifth Street and the LRT station).



Handshakes all around (there's gonna be a lot of that over the next few weeks)






Bike parking available along Second Avenue



This is a closer look at the steel work.






You can finally see how the plaza will meet the street on the north side of this emergency exit tower (which will be converted to a regular entrance/exit)



Serious home dugout work in progress.






Workers against green






Up inside the circulation building. (That's the LRT platform visible through the windows.)



Working on the main concourse right about directly behind the plate.



Upper deck view of the out-of-town scoreboard.



I had to hold the camera as far over my head as I could to get this shot, in which the infield is finally visible. It's a spot made for your average Timberwolves player.



Some of your fellow BPMers at a game in May of 2010 (we had almost the whole section)



I took this because of the view reflected in the store windows. (The store is cool too.)









Another view of the escalator, which apparently comes preassembled!






Citi Field as viewed from Shea.






Lots of pix waiting to be seen from Bert's memorable night.






And another angle looking at the overhang area of the right field pavilion. This looks to me like a great area to watch a game.



Opening Day 2008 (By Currier & Ives)


Glossary

BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis
 


(1993)
 


First Edition (1992)
 


Second Edition (2006)
 


(2008)
 

Selected Bibliography - Surveys
 


(1975)
 


Second Edition (1987)
 


Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title
(2000)
 


(2000, large coffee table)
 


Original edition (2000, round)
 


Revised edition (2006, round)
 


(2001, medium coffee table)
 


(2002, small coffee table)
 


(2003, medium coffee table)
 


(2004, very large coffee table)
 


(2006, very large coffee table)
 


Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)
 

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia
 


(1992)
 


Book and six ballpark miniatures
(2004)
 

Complete Bibliography

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