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What Tom Petty Said

December 4, 2009 11:06 PM

So is there anything left to see, now that this ballpark is just about complete? Any a-ha moments left to be revealed?

Sure, there are some little things, and a few niceties still being put in place. Truth is, there are probably a million tiny details yet to be resolved, mostly things we'll probably never notice.

I've been trying to get down and grab some shots of the wind veil. But my camera, which sucks on a sunny day, really sucks on a gray day. And the sun has been in pretty short supply for quite some time now.

Beyond that is the realization that we've entered the period where we have to simply wait for the gates to open. There will be lots to see then!

I pulled a few images from my last two trips down. Both were pretty gray days, and both involved train-related activities. But I got a chance to walk up and down Fifth Street and notice a few details.

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The overhang as seen through the unnumbered gate

It did occur to me that a Gate #10 would be highly appropriate as well, if TK would ever allow such a thing.

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Gate 6 is quite large


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Detail at Gate 6


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Wood-backed seats viewed through gate 6


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A new address for the Admin building


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The first completed mural


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The knothole (sans view of anything interesting)


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Location for automated ticket machines


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Gate 3 ticket window


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The louvres on Fifth have been completely filled in

For the train enthusiasts...

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LRT at the ballpark


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I'll admit that this makes me nervous. It's pretty easy to step into the path of a train (which is true at various points along the line, but still...)


PB140097a.jpg

Complicated pedestrian crossing


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Stepping inside the circulation building


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Stairs and escalator down to the platform


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The first passengers are about to arrive, but the switch is set for the wrong track (those guys walked all the way out to correct it)


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Freight trains run in very close proximity (Jerry Bell was standing at my left elbow when I took this picture)

Here's a quick video of that train, which runs in close proximity to the Northstar trains, but not directly adjacent to the platform. (At other stations to the north, there is no such buffer.)



PB210373a.jpg

These tracks actually travel beneath the admin building and come out on the other side


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These are the outside tracks which go under the promenade


PB210189a.jpg

The completed promenade




Comments


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Hello,
I'm active duty navy and ran across this site only a few months ago (wish I had found it much earlier!). But I just wanted to say thanks. I am really happy I found it as I haven't been home to MN in some time. This site has really made me happy!

Thanks
Joshua
(BTW I live in Naples Italy)

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 06:42 AM by Joshua Highlight this comment 1

Thanks for the details, Rick. On the BPA photo tour someone linked to yesterday, I liked the signage for "Grandstand" that used the "tail" from the twins wordmark as the basis for the sign. Details like that will be sweet to see bit by bit. -- Mike

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 08:38 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 2

here is the link again for the pictures i took on 12.04.09 down at the site.

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 11:43 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 3

"THE WAITING"
Oh baby don't it feel like heaven right now
Don't it feel like something from a dream
Yeah I've never known nothing quite like this
Don't it feel like tonight might never be again
Baby we know better than to try and pretend
No one coulda ever told me 'bout this
I said yeah yeah

The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you see one more card
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part.

Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers ROCK,,,Get the new LIVE Anthology set just released...

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 12:11 PM by Steve Highlight this comment 4

And here's the link again to the Ballpark Authority photo set. These wayfinding signs look great (unlike some of the concession signs, which look kinda cheap).

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 12:39 PM by Rick 5

I know it's old skool but I went to FILM photog school in Mpls. in the early 80's. The grey cloudy days look great in 35MM Black & White and even better with a 4X5 Bellows cam.

Just a suggestion but film photography is making a comeback. Grab a decent 35mm film cam off eBay now because the prices are already going up.

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 12:56 PM by Chuck Highlight this comment 6

Those signs do look great.

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 3:21 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 7

Chuck,

I still have all my old gear, but I've been spoiled by the immediacy of digital. I just bought a bad digital in haste (Olympus SP-570UZ). A new DSLR is not in the budget just yet...

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 3:30 PM by Rick 8

Bet you could get some good deals on there for Betamax and 8-track tapes, too.

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 4:48 PM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 9

Love that Betamax! It's my bread and butter!

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 5:01 PM by Rick 10

i'm watching "The Great Pine Tar Incident" game in it's entirety on MLB Network tonight. I just might make it through the winter if they keep this up. :)

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 9:18 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 11

I forgot to mention earlier how much I'm liking the finished mural. In its concept drawings, I wasn't as sure. But the finished mural has just a great feel to it. A fine addition to the ballpark.

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 9:34 PM by fiesta Highlight this comment 12

Maybe I'm ignorant of something here, but does anyone else think that the railings going down the center of each isle are an unnecessary nuisance? If safety for the partially disabled is the only reason those are installed in stadiums these days, you would think older stadiums (i.e. Metrodome) would have installed them. Is there some other reason they exist? More-efficient egress possibly? I only ask because on those MBA pictures they look awfully tall - tall enough to possibly interfere with views from isle seats further down the baselines.

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 11:31 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 13

Regarding the hand rails - I hope they don't obstruct views for folks (never been a problem for me in other parks), but I welcome them. You may not need them now, but when you do, you'll be glad there are there.

Never understood why they didn't install them in the Metrodome - getting to decent seats was always an adventure.

Posted on December 5, 2009 at 11:58 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 14

Metrodome upper deck does have the railings down the center of the aisles. Never were a problem.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 12:03 AM by fiesta Highlight this comment 15

Fair enough - didn't know about the railings in the Dome's upper deck 'aisles' (this time spelled correctly).

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not opposed to safety or convenience. We have seats right on an aisle in LC, just past 3rd base - was just curious if this would be an issue; you can't really tell from the seat viewer.

Sorry if I sounded cranky - home team just had the Big XII title slip through its fingers.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 01:01 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 16

Expectorate-
Untimely penalties, bad passes and okay passes dropped. I hear ya. Good defensive battle overall. I just wish they took advantage of their opportunities.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 09:11 AM by Jared Highlight this comment 17

That Nebraska QB is one of the worst I have ever seen at a major college. The D was amazing. The main reason I wanted them to win was so my Bearcats could make the title game. Now UC gets screwed by the BCS system without playoffs. Will it ever end?

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 09:46 AM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 18

Expectorate: I share your frustration with Nebraska almost winning, and the extra bonus of frustrating the BCS people. About those aisle rails, where are the seats located? I assume your aisle is to your right side, if you are worried at all, and on the 3rd base side.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 09:53 AM by robin Highlight this comment 19

Bill Smith is being interviewed on 830 at the moment.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 09:53 AM by robin Highlight this comment 20

And here is what Billy said..."blah blah blah blah blah"

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 11:00 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 21

Badjuggler - sorry we couldn't finish the job. Throw in that crazy Pitt game and your day must have been emotionally draining. Kelly to ND possibly, or does he stay put?

robin - we're in Section Q, seats 1 and 2 in our row, so yes - I believe the aisle is immediately to our right.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 11:48 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 22

Im taking a tour of Chase field on monday... better than nothing.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 2:01 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 23

Expectorate: I bet they're fine. When I saw LC I was thinking "lower club", but that's a Metrodome designation. Some of those on the 3rd base side were annoying because of constant traffic and vendors up and down the aisle even without rails. I would think Legend Club sections would have every effort made to avoid obstructions, and there are just a few rows so traffic shouldn't be bad. (Front row rails might be another issue). I felt bad for that Nebraska field goal kicker who made clutch goals and must have thought good about having put it away.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 2:40 PM by robin Highlight this comment 24

...and now Washington may blow their upset of New Orleans.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 3:17 PM by robin Highlight this comment 25

"..and now Washington may blow their upset of New Orleans."~~~~They did, and it was ug-ly.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 4:53 PM by deenels Highlight this comment 26

Badjuggler-
I agree he didn't play well, but i won't say worst I have seen. He has had some pretty good games this season, which takes him out of that category for me. Nebraska has had far worse QB's than that before. It's too bad they couldn't pull it out for Cincy or TCU. They deserve their shot but we all know the hysteria that would have been created if the second team were determined by the computers with so many teams vying for the spot. At least Cincy did what they needed to have the opportunity. At least they have an offense, nebraska on the other hand...

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 5:02 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 27

Ndomakong Suh for HEISMAN! Alex Henerey for runner-up!

Sorry for the double post. That is all. ;)

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 5:09 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 28

yawn.....

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 29

New "signature" food item, per MLB site:

"Murray's, the iconic steakhouse since 1946, is providing the inspiration for one of the signature menu items at Target Field - marking a new era for Twins fans and the food they'll experience at the new ballpark.

A version of the well-known Murray's steak sandwich will be served at multiple Mill City Grill concession locations throughout the ballpark. The Murray's steak sandwich at Target Field will be made with choice sirloin steak, provolone cheese and served on a fresh ciabatta roll from Minneapolis's Franklin Street Bakery.
Murray's owner, Pat Murray, and the restaurant's chef worked closely with the Twins and their food service partner Delaware North Sportservice on the sandwich concept in their kitchen to get it just right for its debut at Target Field. "

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 7:25 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 30

yes, Mike posted this link a few days ago - still curious how much this delicious thing will cost. :)

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 8:11 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 31

This picture I found on Flickr might give a good idea. It's of the concession stands at NYS. Note under "Fan Favorites" (on the right) the price of the Beef Sliders and the Steak Sandwich on a Garlic Roll. If Murray's is involved...that might be what we get to look forward to. Good food costs a pretty penny.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 9:16 PM by luke Highlight this comment 32

Yes, this would have been the perfect year for the "Plus One" playoff system. You determine your top four seeds (easy this year with Bama, Texas, Cincy & TCU all undefeated) and have the winners play one extra game. Sorry, but Boise State still doesn't count.

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 9:25 PM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 33

Adding 'injury to insult:' EJ Henderson just got his left knee destroyed. If he's ready to play by training camp next year, it'll be a miracle. Hope I'm wrong . . .

Posted on December 6, 2009 at 10:24 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 34

expectorate - it wasn't ej henderson's knee that was hurt by his own teammate jamarcus sanford's wild and somewhat out of control diving attempt at a tackle which he completely whiffed on and therefore slammed into ej. henderson actually fractured his left femur.

it was hard to tell when it was actually broke on the play. it almost seems that it wasn't when jamarcus sandford collided with ej's leg. rather it looked like the femur may have fractured during the violent leg-whip action and the consequent slamming into the turf of his left leg that occured because of the collison.

i hate you jamarcus sandford. you are off everyone's christmas list now. damn rookie.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 12:28 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 35

excuse me......i mean jamarca sanford.

apparently his mom couldn't figure out how to spell "jamarcus" on the birth certificate when he was born, so she just went with jamarca instead............................

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 12:43 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 36

Some news for you folks --- the only place to get a Murray's steak sandwich is Murray's and nothing any Twins employee says is ever going to change that.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 01:41 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 37

wow ben....that was really insightful. thanks for that nugget of useful info regarding murray's and a steak sandwich of all things.

me rolling me eyes now......

sorry, i couldn't resist being a smart-ass there. ;-)

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 02:46 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 38

So Pat Murray is full of shit?

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 09:02 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 39

I'm just saying that a "Murray's-inspired" steak sandwich thrown together by minimum wage types working for the lowest bidding food service outfit the Twins could find might not be a world beater. Sorry, but I grow a bit weary of the constant spin. It's just a new ballpark people (albeit a nice one) - not the greatest thing known to humankind.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 10:26 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 40

Don't sweat it, Ben. Beta's just crabby because his bi-Queens lost.

;-)

Awwwww, now doesn't that little winkey face make it all better, Beta?

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM by Vince Highlight this comment 41

Ben - Duly noted. 2 things:

1) No one here thinks the ballpark will result in automatic world championships for years to come, while simultaneously ending both world hunger and conflict in the Middle East. We're interested in its construction and development, and how dissimilar it will be from the Metrodome - why is this a problem for you?

2) If you're going to write-off posts about various updates as nothing more than "constant spin" it begs the question - why are you here, checking out the "spin" for yourself?

Call me crazy - doesn't seem very tactful to frequent a site formed for the purpose of informing fans about their new ballpark, getting on your high horse, and saying, "it's just a ballpark, people."

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 10:56 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 42

A real question spinning off of this fun exchange...is the Metrodome concession program where volunteers do the concessions to raise money in the past? Will the Twins have real, trained, concession workers? It was always irritating when you were an hour early to the game to be a learning experience while that concession worker learned how to put a hot dog and beer order together.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 1:03 PM by JCTwins Highlight this comment 43

But then again, you don't need a "professional" behind the counter to build a steak sammich. It's not like the chefs at Murray's are making Bobby Flay blush.

It's more about the fact that the Twins are embracing some of their new neighbors.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 1:14 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 44

JCTwins,

I'm guessing the concession workers at TF will volunteers as in the past. Target Center, TCFBS, Xcel, etc. all use those volunteer groups, as does the Metrodome. I'd be shocked if that changed at TF. It's just something you have to live with as it's a great way for various youth athletic groups to make money. I'd rather have to wait a couple more minutes to get my food because the worker is new then have to answer my door from some poor kid selling candy/magazines/popcorn etc.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 2:56 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 45

I have been trying to find a link to buy the calendar. Are they all sold out already?

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 3:20 PM by crtwinsfan Highlight this comment 46

The workers were never much of an issue for me - and I used to do some concession work myself on behalf of my daughter's swim team. But --- who among you have ever gotten a stale bun with your dog? Did you know that they start out with product left over from the last game, which may have been ten days ago? This is not the workers, it is the policy of the vendor. My guess is that some things are unlikely to change much. And, it is the constant spin from the team that tires me, not necessarily anything written here. I would like to be sold baseball, that is what I will be going to the new park for - for food (especially steak) I go elsewhere.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 3:23 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 47

Pastor Jimenez will serve as the executive chef at Target Field

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 6:28 PM by Wanda Phillips Highlight this comment 48

hey vince - let me guess you are a fudge packer fan. suck a fat one tough guy.

;-)

check out that winking, smiley face bud. piss off.

p.s. your fudge packers still suck ass.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 6:43 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 49

My team is better then your team....so there !!

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 7:37 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 50

What a ridiculous post. It seems like some perspective would probably make a difference for you, Beta.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 8:17 PM by Vince Highlight this comment 51

Badjuggler - Your post about a college playoff of sorts was interesting, until you took a shot at Boise State. That just made you sound like every other big conference blowhard. Sucks for TCU and Boise State that they have to play each other. Big conferences probably were worried they might lose 2 games

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 9:26 PM by TC 34 Highlight this comment 52

Welcome to the Algonquin Round table, everybody.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 9:47 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 53

The WAC? Give me a break. The Mountain West is weak enough to begin with but TCU has been overpowering. And I suppose you were whining about Utah last year and BYU a few years ago. Join a real conference and get back to be, Boise. Or move out of Idaho...

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 10:56 PM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 54

hey maz.... are you enjoying our nice warm, sunny weather??? lol!

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 11:10 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 55

Just something to think about for anyone at wild games!!! They have changed food people and it is no longer centerplate... I am not sure of the new company but just that some might like to know this.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 11:18 PM by t Highlight this comment 56

So back to baseball news... it appears Carl Pavano will be pitching in Target Field next year.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM by amputechture Highlight this comment 57

Now they just need to resign Crede and their offseason will be done!!!!

...and it's not even January!

(That was a joke...like our front office)

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 11:31 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 58

From the strib article

"Pavano, 33, joins a rotation that includes three other sure things in righthanders Scott Baker (15-9, 4.37 last season), Nick Blackburn (11-11, 4.03) and Kevin Slowey (10-3, 4.86 before a broken wrist ended his season in July).

That sets up quite a battle in spring training for the fifth rotation spot between lefthanders Brian Duensing and Francisco Liriano and righthanders Boof Bonser, Anthony Swarzak and Jeff Manship."

I will be very disappointed if we start spring training with this rotation. Although I'm glad we signed Pavano, he is not a number 1 starter. I don't think we will pick up a true number one guy, but if we don't we need more depth than what we currently have battling for that number 5 spot.

Posted on December 7, 2009 at 11:58 PM by minn55441 Highlight this comment 59

love ya vince, love ya.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 12:26 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 60

Amputechture!?
Bearer of Pavano news and influencer of my Mars Volta listening this morning. Tons of snow on top of that and my day just keeps getting better.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 08:14 AM by Jared Highlight this comment 61

minn55441 - If you are not happy with this rotation, and what yet another veteran #1 pitcher to add to our staff, you can go help Mauer pack his bags cause he will need to go.

This starting rotation is pretty damn solid. Baker, Blackburn, and Slowey are all very good pitchers, young, but very good. 4 solid pitchers in a rotation is a lot more, I mean A LOT more than most other teams have for their starting arms.

Duensing will be our fifth man. He showed pretty good stuff late in the season last year. He is a much better starter than reliever and I believe he will take off if he knows that the 5th spot is his.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 08:15 AM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 62

I'm still hoping for Liriano to wake up and return to form as well.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 09:22 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 63

Ben- I hope so as well, but I truly think that he will be a reliever for the rest of his career. Maybe Andie can groom him into a set up man, and then one day be a closer after Nathan leaves. He will have to improve on his velocity, among other things, if a closing position is in his future.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 09:55 AM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 64

That isn't a MURAL its a MOSAIC.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:00 AM by El-Rocco Highlight this comment 65

El-Rocco,

A Mural is not defined by the Medium with which it is crated. Therefore, a mosaic can be a mural.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:15 AM by Andrew Highlight this comment 66

trosy29 --- I think he also needs to "get his mind right" - if I may borrow a theme from Cool Hand Luke. Too bad, at one point it looked like we had another Koufax. Sorry for dating myself.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:21 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 67

Didn't Gardy say last year that we have five #1 starters?

Ha! We have a #2 (for half his starts), a couple of possible #3's, and a whole bunch of #5's.

I'd welcome back Lohse at this point.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:23 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 68

If our pitching staff can stay healthy, and our bats give them run support (which they should as long as this year we can hit w/RISP, as last year was pretty dismal in this area), our staff will be pretty damn good. I am not worried, but we need to two above points to happen. They are young, but they are damn good arms.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:43 AM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 69

Kev in az,

ha ha yea it rained last night but was still 50 degrees.. this morning is awsome sunny as you know. heading down to the bob or chase whatever right now was at sun devil stadium this morning.. i have to go back to the tundrea 2marrow so im sad !

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 11:47 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 70

Watch some of these Twins classics with Slowey pitching. Those were almost always well pitched games. He's good especially as he gains experience. Bake is a good #3 man, and Blacky a good #4 man. I think it's semi-solid and would love to see a Jack Morris type ace come in as the new #1 and move everyone back a notch.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 12:07 PM by JCTwins Highlight this comment 71

I never understood those that get upset at managers and coaches for what their superlatives about their players. What did you want Gardy to say about his rotation? That it was too young and the team was screwed?

I tend to think that most Twins diehards are too hard on the rotation. It's still very young. Baker is a hell of a pitcher and Blackburn continued to show strides last year. Slowey at times showed the makings of a No. 1 pitcher last year before getting hurt and is all of 25 years old.

The idea that fans are pining for Kyle Lohse (6-10 with a 4.74 ERA in the NL last year while making $7 mil) and aching over the loss of Matt Garza just makes me laugh.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 1:00 PM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 72

Sure, Gardy shouldn't say our pitching staff sucks...but then again don't blow smoke up our asses by saying we have five #1 starters, when we don't have a single one.

We can all wish and hope they live up to expectations 3-4 years down the road, but not one of them has shown both the consistency and health needed to reach that level THIS YEAR.

Bring in some new arms...light a fire under our current staff. Make them compete for those starting jobs.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 1:27 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 73

We just gained advantage in the Central. Granderson to Yankees, and Jackson to Arizona. Detroit got some good prospects, and Coke, but it take a bit for them get into full potential. see link. TWINS IN 2010!!

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 2:21 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 74

trosy,

all it means is that the yankees get stronger. so what if this weakens the tigers? it's obvious from reading your posts that you're one of the kool aid drinking, aw-shucks, let's just win the division every year and get our asses kicked in the playoffs type of fan.

Twins in 2010???? Maybe for the division, but nothing more.

Are you by any chance related to anyone in the Twins front office?

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 2:31 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 75

Boof Bonser released to make room for Pavano on 40 man roster.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 3:08 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 76

I would much rather have a STRONG division. If you have a strong division, that increases the chances of a WILD CARD coming out of your division. That would mean one less Yankee/Red Sox team in the postseason.

Who cares if the Twins win their division each year, you have to take that next step in the postseason sooner or later as the ultimate goal is to win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, not AL Central Division Championships.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 3:13 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 77

bye bye Boof! Good riddance....

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 3:17 PM by deenels Highlight this comment 78

kevin in az - I am sorry you live your life as a pessimist. Must be fun. I also apologize that I stated an opinion, and that I should remember that you are the omniscient baseball god. Please, accept my apologies.

PS - By weakening the Tigers, it improves our chances to win the division. I think the Twins and Tigers had to play game 163 this last year to decide the division champion. I could be wrong though.

PSS - You still have to win the division/wild card to win the World Series.

Mike I agree with you, but see the PSS above. As baby Jesus said, (kev in az - that is Joe Mauer, oh, right, you already know that, sorry again) "I truly believe once you get to the postseason, you have a chance to win the World Series." - Joe Mauer.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 3:31 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 79

PAST WILD CARD WINNERS:

1995 - Yankees
1996 - Orioles
1997 - Yankeees
1998 - Red Sox
1999 - Red Sox
2000 - Mariners
2001 - Athletics
2002 - Angels
2003 - Red Sox
2004 - Red Sox
2005 - Red Sox
2006 - Tigers
2007 - Yankees
2008 - Red Sox
2009 - Red Sox

Summation: AL EAST: 11
AL WEST: 3
AL CENTRAL: 1

As much as we would love to have the WC NOT come out of the East/WEST, it RARELY happens. That is something we just need to deal with. Point - we still need to win the division for a chance to win the world series, which in turn means a weaker Tiger team, the better chance at a championship.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 3:59 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 80

Anybody interested in a Boof signed MLB ball? Garza? Lohse? Rivas? -----------------------------

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 4:26 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 81

what kev in az and mike said.

we must all stop with this fake-satisfaction of being happy to just win the division all the while getting bounced in the alds for the umpteenth time. that is not going to cut it for a lot of twins fans going forward.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 82

TwinsFest 2010 tickets purchased!
That should be loads of fun...and looking outside today, it'll be nice to think baseball.
Drove downtown today to get home (94 was backed up til kingdom come), and drove thru the 394 tunnel (under the plaza) looks alot different than the last time I went through there (sometime after the bridge collapse I believe)...

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 4:47 PM by luke Highlight this comment 83

I am not happy at all that we get killed in the playoffs as well. But, STILL AND ALWAYS, you have to win the division/wild card to win the world series. A weaker Detroit teams helps that. That was my point from the get go. Is it that hard to understand?!?

If you have a problem with how the Twins have won the Division 5 of the last 8 years and not content with the product they put on the field, you should seriously follow another team and move on from the Twins. 5 of the last 8 years, the Twins have had a much better chance at winning the World Series and MANY MANY MANY teams. WHY? - THEY MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 4:50 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 84

Ben, how about a Matt LeCroy and Dustin Mohr baseball to go along with that collection?

From La Velle's blog today:

I’m not exaggerating. Baseball officials and media folk continue to hammer me about Target Field not having a roof. I’m not putting up much of a fight.

What does it matter to these media folks when they will be in a heated/enclosed press box anyways during the early parts of the season???

It will be interesting to listen to all of the media as Opening Day approaches and into April/May. For as much as they complain about no roof, where will these people be and what will they say when its 70 degrees and sunny? Than its just a normal "beautiful day in Minneapolis for baseball"....We all know (at least the diehard outdoor ballpark fans) there will be many more nice days than there will be occassional not-so-good days pertaining to weather.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 4:59 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 85

I agree Mike. The media (non local, and some local) for some reason have a hard on about this issue. They will blow it way out of proportion when there is bad weather, and fail to mention how nice it is on a beautiful day that there is no roof. That's the media for you. It will be interesting to say the least. But us fans won't give a shit. We'll be outside watching baseball.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 5:06 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 86

In response to it being 25 degrees at Lambeau on Monday night a local news anchor responded, "Well that's how they like it there." Hmmmm... why is it that it's ok at Lambeau and not in Minnesota? Because we had a shitty dome built and people started accepting that it HAD to be that way. It's up to us to take ownership of this roofless ballpark and use it to our advantage. The Vikings need to think this way too. We should be proud to show up to a few baseball games in a freaking winter jacket and a face mask. That's who we are...we're crazy idiots that live in sh*tty weather 8 months of the year. Get used to it or MOVE.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 6:44 PM by Jim Highlight this comment 87

trosy,

The Twins are soooo lucky to have fans like you! I'm less concerned about what other teams are doing. I'm more concerned about the Twins improving their team....And up until now, they haven't done that and given their track record, they won't. But they have lemmings like you for most of their fan base so they can get away with it.

Keep drinkin the kool-aid trosy!

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 6:44 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 88

F*** another division title, we need to at least make it to the World Series in the next couple of years. Gotta agree with Kevin, we need to hold the Twins brass accountable.

I'm still pissed at the Johan trade. We pretty much traded the best pitcher (at the time) for J.J. Hardy. Probably would've been better to hang onto Johan for the remainder of his contract and take the two 1st round picks.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 7:18 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 89

But Lafferty, Detroit is worse now....YAY YAY....Win Twins!

Nevermind the fact that the Twins only end up in the playoffs because they play in the shittiest division in baseball. Nevermind the fact that when the Twins go to either coast, the repeatedly have their asses handed to them (check Boston, NY, LA Angels).

We just need to think positively Lafferty, don't worry be happy!!

*drinks more kool-aid*

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 7:23 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 90

kevin in az: are we related, by chance?

The rubes deserve a good spanking. Paddle away!

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 7:54 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 91

Rubes....that's exactly what they are...rubes. And they think being referred to as a "rube" is complimentary. See what KFAN can do to an entire population? Tragic!

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 8:46 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 92

Kev - You're still are not getting my SIMPLE point.

Question: Can you win the World Series if you don't win the division or wild card?
Answer: NO

I get just as frustrated as the next fan when it comes to the Twins org. lack of investing in this team. Trust me. But I am not gonna sit there and bitch and moan about every little f-ing thing they do or don't do. There has been obstacles to the Twins increasing the payroll mainly being the Pohlads and stadium revenue, and the change in the latter with TF should help. We can't change the owner. We have to deal with that. What I can do is support the team I love and be optimistic looking at the season ahead of us.

Kev, do you look at all aspects of your life with the same negativity and pessimism to you express towards the Twins? I sure hope not, cause that would be a sad life to live.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:05 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 93

Gammons to MLB Network. see link

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:17 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 94

If anyone is interested in a partial season ticket package (20 games), plan E, Home Plate View, section 318 (private row above the entrance), please send me an email at jfh3 co at gmail dot com (no spaces, resolve to the proper address). If there are two people interested, I'd split into two packages of 10 games. Season ticket price $20/seat, $40/game.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:20 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 95

trosy...your point is you can't make it to the world series without making the playoffs....well, no shit sherlock...that's like saying you can't make bread without flour. you're missing my point. my point is we keep making the playoffs but can't advance. SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE!!!

The obstacles you speak of no longer exist. They're out of the dome, they knew they would be moving into a new palace 3 years ago and spending steadily decreased. Meanwhile we have the one of the richest if not THE richest owners in pro sports. Minnesotans opened up their wallets, now it's time for the Twins to do the same. No more waiting. We're done waiting. You can wait all you want while the rest of us have loftier goals for this team.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:22 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 96

Kev and TTF...get a room. ;-)

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:45 PM by Jim Highlight this comment 97

It doesn't matter how rich the Pohlads are, what matters is how rich the Twins are. Were the Pohlads to move money betwen themselves and the Twins willy-nilly, the accountants for both the Pohlads and the Twins would be pulling their hair out. The IRS would be all over both like white on rice. You cannot think of the two entities as a whole when it comes to the finances.
The Twins have to pay their players out of the team's coffers, not out of the Pohlad's pockets. To do otherwise would cost both dearly at tax time. If you own a busines, you pay your people out of the business's funds, not your own personal funds. It's a simple rule of busines.
The Pohlads may be the wealthiest owners in sports, but the Twins are not one of the wealthiest teams, and that's a critical difference.
But now that their revenue outlook just got a whole lot better, thanks to the good people of Hennepin County and those who visit and spend money there, I really do hope that the Twins look to become dominant league-wide, as opposed to merely gearing up to win their division. Division titles are nice, but World Championships need to be the ultimate goal.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:47 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 98

Kev - I completely agree with your last post. I have never said otherwise. My point was in correlation with the Tigers being a weaker team. The post you originally chastised me about. (#74 and #79)

Winona Mike took my words in regards to the Pohlads and their wealth. They are they richest owners in baseball, but why would you take money out of business a and give it to business b? That doesn't make sense as long as business b is still profitable.

Now, one thing I hate and get really pissed off about is that the Pohlads are near the bottom of the pack when it comes to % of revenue towards payroll. I think around 35-40%. That's just down right greedy. While most teams are between 50-60%. AND, I read somewhere that they have pocketed their share of revenue sharing the last few years. That REALLY pisses me off.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 11:06 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 99

truce trosy? i think we agree more than we disagree. but i'm sorry, winning the division and only the division just doesn't cut it anymore. This is the offseason for the Twins to put up or shut up. And extending Mauer's contract isn't enough. That's not improving. Mauer's been a part of this team for years. They need to retain him and surround him with legitimate major league ballplayers. bye bye boof and may a few more be joining you in the unemployment line.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 11:19 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 100

Actually, I think I'm on both sides of this one.

Consider that both recent Twins GMs have said publicly at various points that they try to build the team to win the division, and allow that much of what happens in the post-season is out of their -- or anyone's -- control. Success in October, they say, is about momentum, health, luck.

Add to that the wide perception that the corporate strategy is to spend enough to remain competitive and guarantee a certain level of ticket sales. In that equation, winning in the regular season is all that matters because that's all it takes to guarantee the intended level of profitability. Any post-season wins are just gravy. (It's not that they don't want those wins, it's just that they don't consider them when budgeting. Who would?)

On the one hand, this is a smart way to run your business. You are perpetually making a reasonable profit (according to Forbes, the Twins are consistently among the most profitable MLB franchises despite having revenues nowhere near the top), and you are never risking large chunks of the future in order to make a risky run at winning it all right now.

But the first downside of this strategy is that it does consign your team to greater than average risk of failure in the post-season. In fact, the logical outcome of that strategy is sweep after sweep by teams with more impact players.

And that's the critical missing component in the strategy: impact players. Competence can win divisions and/or Wild Card spots, but a "competent" team has a nearly impossible task against any "better-than-competent" team -- which is usually all of the other post-season teams.

Imagine the 2009 Twins with one serious impact pitcher, and maybe one more serious impact hitter. (There were way too many times this year when our DH was hitting 6-7-8, and I've always thought that if your DH isn't hitting third or fourth, maybe fifth, you're not making very good use of the roster spot.) We could all probably agree that even one more impact player might have changed the outcome of that ALDS -- even against the best team in baseball. (Yes, that one impact player could have been Morneau. But him being out makes me think we were actually down two impact hitters and one impact pitcher.)

That leads right to the second downside of this strategy: it only works for so long. Eventually, after the fans have a taste of October baseball, they will start to expect you to actually win a post-season game every now and then.

I think we have a right to be disappointed in our team's showing in the 2009 playoffs, and I think we have to hold the front office responsible. Impact players are not cheap, but you can budget for them, and make them part of your formula.

That's where Joe comes in.

Paying for Joe is not the issue. We can and will pay for Joe -- if he'll stay.

But he's gotta be looking at this formula and asking himself, "Do I want to play for a team whose acknowledged strategy is to win its division and leave the playoffs to chance?"

That only makes sense, and it better lead the front office to a change in strategy if they want to keep Joe and their fan base. Build the team to win the division on the way to winning the World Series.

That will require taking a few chances here and there. That goes against their nature, but now is the time to make that shift.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 11:23 PM by Rick 101

Deal. I am giving them a little more rope this offseason then you probably, mainly because their hasn't even been a pitch in the new park yet. This first year should give them a good idea as to revenue based on ticket sales, concessions, etc. that will help let them know what can be put towards payroll.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 11:25 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 102

Don't expect that to change too mucgh in the next few years. The twins have a commitment to pay for over $150 million of the new stadium costs. I'm sure they had to borrow the money from some bank somewhere.
Now that you think about it, how many teams begged for and got new ballparks claiming that they needed the new revenue streams to stay competative? How many have shown marked improvement? Milaukee might be seen as a moderate success - they stay in the hunt for over half a season - but what about Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Texas? The best performers of that bunch have shown glimpses of improvement, but no consistent success. I'm not holding out too much hope for Kansas City, either.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 11:26 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 103

Well said Rick it's put up or shut up time for the Twins. If they put up, then we can enjoy big, excited crowds at Target Field for years. If they shut up and go the status quo, then Target Field will start to look like the Met did in the late 70's...Empty and cold.

Minnesota fans historically don't embrace mediocre performances...well, except for Wild fans that is.

The Twins have an opportunity to completely steal the hearts of Minnesota. The Vikings will choke because that's what they always do (just ask Winona or myself). Soon it will be baseball season again and all eyes will be on the Twins. Even more eyes will be on the Twins if the Vikings days really are numbered in MN. This is the Twins time to shine in the local sports spotlight...i just hope their performance is more worthy of applause instead of rotten tomatoes.

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 11:43 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 104

First time poster,long time reader...

Just to add a few things to the current discussion about the Twins roster and what the new stadium means in terms of getting that "impact" player(s). Without adding anyone else to the team the payroll for 2010 is already at 90 million. Beyond 2010 if they resign Mauer to a contract in the 20-25 million range you are probably talking around $100 million team salary. Also, Slowey and Blackburn are due raises in the next few years. It is going to be difficult to bring in a big name player and take on more salary.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 01:04 AM by lars Highlight this comment 105

Gammons to the mlb network just drove even more viewers to the mlb network.
Gammons was one of the only reasons to watch ESPN now other than Jason Stark, it's a complete joke for mlb coverage.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 01:39 AM by Boof Highlight this comment 106

And we dont have Chone Figgins at third base because. Oh yea he went elsewhere oh darn missed again.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 02:28 AM by Leroy Highlight this comment 107

Click my name for link. That site will keep you busy all winter. Plenty of statistics, graphs and insight. Players, teams, tons of links, daily graphs, season graphs, stats I haven't even heard of. Here is a Jason Kubel example.Rick could potentially use that to make his case about the DH. I didn't look to hard to see if they have the in depth Team stats or "by position" stats that they do for players but you could just as easily do comparisons in some cases because they note potisions played and such. Make it what you will. Enjoy.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 08:21 AM by Jared Highlight this comment 108

I didn't even know ESPN still had baseball coverage.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 08:49 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 109

Well said Boof. Gammons is the only guy on ESPN that I liked when it came to baseball coverage. I used to watched Baseball Tonight religiously, but when MLB network came in last year, I maybe tuned to Baseball Tonight once a month. As we all know ESPN covers the Big Market teams WAY too much. MLB Network's coverage is pretty even.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 09:17 AM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 110

I am mystified on this man love for Figgins. What is it about him that makes him worth $9 million a year over four years at the age of 31? I think if you let Harris have the job at third he would put up similar numbers, he certainly did his last year in Tampa, and he would cost you about $8 million less while being two years younger.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 09:24 AM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 111

Thanks for that link Jared - looks to be fairly addictive. Just add it to the list of reasons I can't get anything done at work these days.

Suuuuuuhhhh

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 09:33 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 112

I agree, Buffalo. There are plenty of free agents we could sign, and get moderately better for one year; but most of them have peaked and demand 3-4 year deals.

I don't blame the Twins for thinking long-term when it comes to handing out really long contracts. I'd rather compete every year and get hope to get hot in the playoffs than go thru horrible rebuilding phases and hope to get lucky in the playoffs once every 8 years.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 10:10 AM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 113

Did the roof deflate on Target Field again? Oh, that's snow on the field? So that's what it looks like...

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 11:38 AM by Jared Highlight this comment 114

Someone should send a picture of Target Field today to a National Media source and tell them the picture was taken in August.

I'm sure they're dumb enough to run with it.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 12:09 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 115

hmmm how many Murray's steak sandwiches do I have to eat to generate enough revenue to obtain an ace pitcher? *carrying the one...*

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 12:35 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 116

Elston and Buff,

What about Kouzmanoff at 3B? I could see that move being a plus if we give up a relatively modest package, like a deal that ships Perkins to San Diego.

Kouzmanoff is 28, will cost less than $5 million, can be elite defensively, and has decent power. The only serious issues I see are that his BA/OPS aren't stellar, he has a pretty brutal OBP, and we would only have control of him for one year.

When you look at those issues an incentive-laden contract for Crede might start to look palatable, too, considering his potential upside. I doubt that we'll make a push for any of the other guys out there at the hot corner, so it may come down to Crede, Kouzmanoff, or Harris at 3B.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 1:48 PM by Margaret Thatcher Highlight this comment 117

Perkins for Kouzmanoff is a distinct possibility at this point as the Twins have made that exact offer to San Diego.

The Padres have asked for more though, and so the question is how much more do they want. Kouzmanoff would definitely add something to the lineup and isn't overly expensive.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM by TwinsTerritory Highlight this comment 118

Adios to Perkins as it seems like he's a dink in the clubhouse. His pitching with an injury obviously did not sit well with management last year and was pretty selfish.

Maybe throw Harris into a deal with Perkins and get a good 3B. Have Crede play when the other guy needs a day off, and give Kubel a day off once in awhile, too. Crede's experience in places like Yankee Stadium is worth something.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 2:56 PM by JCTwins Highlight this comment 119

Perkins is a jerk - most folks were aware of that going back at least a few years. He also tried to pull a service time stunt.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 3:30 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 120

Rick said: "Imagine the 2009 Twins with one serious impact pitcher, and maybe one more serious impact hitter."

You mean like Johan Santana and Torii Hunter???

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 5:08 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 121

I hate to say it but you hit the nail right on the head right there TTH...

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 122

Yes, very good TTH.

It was 2006. That turned out well.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 123

Regarding Hunter and Santana, how many players do you think the Twins would pay at salaries of 15 to 20 or even 25 million a year. Maybe 2.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 6:39 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 124

As far as I'm concerned, Peter Gammons can stay in Boston where he obviously belongs. The guy's a shameless Boston homer. When the Red Sox were looking for a starter one year, Gammons shrugs and says, "Well, they'll just get Radke from the Twins."
When Johan Santana struck out 17 batters in one game, Gammons shrugs his shoulders again and says, "Yeah, but he didn't do it against the Red Sox or Yankees."
As I recall, Gammon's boy, Roger Clemens got his two 20 strikeout games against the pathetic Seattle Mariners in '86 and the equally pathetic Detroit Tigers in '96. Both teams had terrible team batting averages, strikeouts/at bats ratios, and huge total strikeout totals.
I don't see Gammons as a legitimate baseball authority. he can't see pst the Hudson River.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 8:37 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 125

I agree that Pete is not the most objective perspective in baseball. As it was Pete that A-Rod picked to interview him about the book disclosing his illegal performance enhancing. PG did his best to let the carrot skinned A-Rod off the hook for all kinds of accusations. Such as questioning the author's credibility by blaming her for stalking him and his kids. And the reference to a previous interview where he denied ever needing to use performance enhancers by saying he couldn't be truthful with himself so how could he be truthful with the interviewer.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 9:03 PM by NotMendoza Highlight this comment 126

I guess if my choice is being regularly competitive in the division (2001-09 -- one race 16 games out, one race 17 games out, 7 others we win or are very competitive until the end), or making 5 really good runs over 30 years resulting in 2 championships (1971-2000, including 1976, 1987, 1988, 1991, 1992), then I guess I'll pick the most recent decade.

Look back at the records starting in 1971. There are so many seasons the Twins finish 17-27 games behind the division winner, including post 1995 in three division play. I think I would much rather have hope that I have team I can stay interested in all year, rather than waiting for a miracle year. I'm frustrated with our post-season record as well, but baseball is such a marathon its more fun if you are in the hunt rather than just being cast aside.

Said another way, if the Vikings suck, I only have to tolerate the last 8 games. If the Twins suck, I have to try to tolerate the last 80 games. I really admire the die-hard fans in Pittsburgh and KC, but if I had 17 year stretches like those two teams I don't think I would have a ticket package.

Finally, I would say that game 163 this year was the best baseball game I ever saw live, and I got to see it with my son. Jack Morris in game 7 in 1991 was the best single game I ever watched, but I'm so happy I get to share meaningful memories today, not just on DVD.

Posted on December 9, 2009 at 9:39 PM by Linc Highlight this comment 127

I don't think Kouzmanoff is horrible, especially if the Twins don't have to give up much more than Perkins to land him, but I still don't understand why the Twins don't give Harris a serious chance. He's shown when given a chance he can play pretty well. And he's cheap, which could let them keep Punto as a platoon and go after someone like Hudson to play second. That would make far more sense if you ask me.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 12:20 AM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 128

Randy Wolf to the brewers another missed opportunity maybe. Yea if the Twins would give Harris a chance to prove himself thats not such a bad thing. If they have someone within why keep saying were looking for outside options at third. Pick one guy stick with him give them a chance see if it can work out that would be cool.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 04:59 AM by Leroy Highlight this comment 129

TTH - I second, all in favor "I" that motion, motion carries.
Very good point...

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 06:52 AM by luke Highlight this comment 130

fyi:
the last year hunter and santana were on the twins (2007) the team finished four games under .500

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 08:13 AM by annoyingcustomer Highlight this comment 131

I don't think Wolf was leaving the NL. GM's are weary of acquiring pitchers from the Old Man's League.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 08:28 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 132

Edit to add "AL GM's"

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 08:29 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 133

Boof traded to Bo-Sox for minor league player to-be-named.

Linc - that Tigers-Twins game #163 was rated as the #7 best baseball game of this decade by Sports Illustrated. (click link for other top 10 games of the decade)

Pretty incredible if you ask me. I was also lucky to be at that game in October.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 10:18 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 134

Yeah it was a great game. Just think how much more meaningful it would have been had the Twins actually done something after that game. All we have to look back on is "that game"

Being as old as I am, I still cherish the WS victories more than "that game"

Consistently winning but not winning it all is okay. I know some of you said you'd prefer to just be competitive and take your chances instead of winning it all then rebuilding over a number of years. I'd rather win it all and rebuild. Just ask any Viking fan how much fun it is to consistently compete but never win it all.

I'm for winning it all - at all cost, then rebuild. If you have smart people in your scouting/farm system like the Twins supposedly do, I don't think they'll end up like the Pirates/Reds/Royals, etc.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 12:54 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 135

rip Boof.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 1:32 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 136

I agree Kevin and we have all discussed this before. Yes, its nice to be competitive on a yearly basis, but it ultimately comes down to World Championships.

What's the #1 thing people say about the Vikings??? How many Super Bowl rings do they have or how many Super Bowls have they won???

What do most Twins fans know about the Twins??? They were WORLD CHAMPIONS in 1987 and 1991 and were the AL Champions in 1965. What does an AL Central Division Championship get you besides a divisional playoff sweep and some division championship merchandise??? Yes, its a playoff appearance, but sooner or later you need to win in the playoffs. Five division championships in eight years is nice, but in the end, the Twins have been dominated in the playoffs.

What if Detroit, Chicago and/or Cleveland were big spenders like Boston, New York and Anaheim? The Twins would not be competitive each year. The main reason they are competitive each year is the division.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 2:05 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 137

Here's an article about the award the MBA got for its efforts on making Target Field accessible.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 2:18 PM by Michael Highlight this comment 138

"If you have smart people in your scouting/farm system like the Twins supposedly do --- "

Has this become little more than a moth-eaten myth, along with "doing the little things", "playing the game right", etc.? It's exciting to witness these playoff runs but one could make a case for the notion that the Twins, playing in an incredibly weak division, have more or less stumbled into the playoffs with a lot of help from other teams. Perfect storms like '87 and '91 only gather once in a while. I'd like to see the team recognize that they have the core of a great team (when they do) and go balls to the wall. Playing barely well enough to sell tickets seems to be the goal, however.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 139

But Ben, the Twins are "the little engine that could" full of "gamers" who "do the little things" and "manufacture wins" by "doing things the Twins way". Why would we ever sign one of those crazy ego-driven slugger-majiggs who crushes for size?! A dominant veteran pitcher? Yall must be one of those big-city folk to think that! Plus, with all the cash those players cost, how would we pocket the extra 40 million this park is going to make us?

I need to go take a dump now.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 140

tmi

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 5:39 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 141

Here's a link to 2009 team salaries. Just to give an argument that there is "a Twins way". Take a look at the teams ahead of us in salary. I'd say the Twins were a better team than 11 of the 23 that spent more.
Now what could they do if they increased that from 65 million to say 100 million? Much better, and could win it all in the near future.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 3:51 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 142

Interesting list of the 10 best games. Saw #8 and #7 in person and watched all the rest on TV. Cool.

I'd put both of those games a bit higher on the list though.

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 8:18 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 143

welp Harden signs with Texas. click link for article

Posted on December 10, 2009 at 10:32 PM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 144

OG Jeff,

When you get into the restroom, would you tell Billy Smith to put down the damn newspaper, pull up his pants and GET TO WORK!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 12:09 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 145

i should be excited as heck about using my season tickets next year (new ballpark, al central champs and all), but for some reason i am just not that pumped about it. i guess the mlb winter meetings and billy smith/the twins front office's all to predictable inactivity and their we'll-wait-and-see-then-sign-a-past-his-prime-injury-prone-veteran-approach during the off-season can do that to a guy.

sigh.......

talk me back from the ledge.......

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 12:12 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 146

lol Beta. Come on now, I know you're a bigger Twins fan than that. Maybe it's just the cold.

I drove by TF yesterday on my way home from work, via 3rd St. downtown. It looked so nice, lights were on, nice big Budweiser ad welcoming me to the north side of Minneapolis...I reckon 3rd St. is going to be a little difficult when those 12:10 games start letting out.

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 07:01 AM by luke Highlight this comment 147

Well, I can appreciate fans like Kevin and Mike wanting the championship. I do too! In my basement are the framed Strib front pages from '87 for the ACLS and world series win, and I was one of those 50,000 that was in the dome when the Twins came back from Detroit that year. Wonderful fun!

That said, for me personally, I'd rather have some fun more often, that lots of fun only occasionally. And in baseball, it is so important to be in the race to have those last 60 games be meaningful in August in September. That's all I'm saying -- to each their own.

Thanks for the top 10 games Mike. Those were fun to scroll through. I had forgotten how dramatic the 2001 WS was.

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 07:26 AM by Linc Highlight this comment 148

Looks like the fire alarms at Target Field are going off this morning. I work in the warehouse district and commute in on 394 passing under the ballpark. I noticed it from the car and now from the office window that there are strobe lights throughout the structure that are going off. I can see what appears to be many strobes in different locations blinking a blindingly-white light.

Hopefully they're just testing or something as I can see no evidence of an actual fire from where I'm looking out the window. Interesting, nonetheless.

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 07:40 AM by Jeepboy Highlight this comment 149

I hate to break it to everyone, but payroll is already about $90MM for 2010 just from already contracted raises, bringing back Pavano, and swapping Gomez for Hardy. I think all of the impact bats are already on the roster...

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 07:52 AM by strategery Highlight this comment 150

All I can say is that I'm VERY happy Maz and Kev are not the GM of the Twins. Can you say Seattle and New York Mets?

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 08:13 AM by Locker Highlight this comment 151

I think the Twins should push the inaugural season at Target Field back to 2011. It's obvious at this point that our team is so bad that we would probably lose all of our games in 2010 anyway.

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 09:11 AM by Margaret Thatcher Highlight this comment 152

"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference."

~Tommy Lasorda

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 09:20 AM by Rick 153

aaaah, just finished with that deuce.

Kevin, Billy says he'll finish up and be out to get to work just as soon as spring training roles around and he can join Sid at the buffet line.

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 09:22 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 154

Ask Cubs fans how much fun it is to get into the playoffs and then watch their team lose. I don't think many of them would trade a WS ring for multiple postseason letdowns.

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 10:05 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 155

really Locker...

I dont recall being in the convo but i will add my 2 cents...first of all if i was the GM i would not have been ass raped the way jolly ol billy did by the mets .. I also would not have pretended i was the shit with 4 teams and holding out until all of them drop out but the mets... i also would have gotten the mets #1 prospect not there #6 or #8 or whatever that hump gomez was at the time... no i would not have givin johan 180 mill or whatever neither would i have bought c.c. a steak... but i would have got somthing for hunter...

i dont see anything out there that the twins will get this off season... works out for them cuz unless they wanna go balls deep for roy holiday i dont see anything.. figgins is gone... i would just make sure the beer at TF is 2 for 1s after twins home runs ... and even that is more than billy smith has done in 3 years..

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 1:14 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 156

I see the White Sox paid JJ Putz 3 mil to be their setup man.

How much are we paying Crane?

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 1:40 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 157

Just a quick question (I know it's a little off topic):

Isn't it possible that the discomfort in Johan's pitching elbow showed up before the trade and hurt his trade value? Not to mention the knee...

I read a lot of comments here about the Johan trade, but I don't think it's ever mentioned that the Mets have dropped $36 million over two years on one player - a guy that has had both elbow and knee surgery in two years.

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 1:50 PM by Margaret Thatcher Highlight this comment 158

Maz,
Like I said, thank goodness you or Kev are not the GM of the Twins. God help us! Worrying about 2 for 1's. YIKES!
Johan for JJ Hardy...I like it!
Torii is a clubhouse destroyer...we got two #1s for him...I like that as well.
You guys are clueless. Thank you for supporting the Twins though!

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 2:04 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 159

Man, what's with all the trolls?

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 2:08 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 160

A lot of the "smart people" think Crain (Crane?) will be non-tendered.

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 2:29 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 161

However you spell the bum's name...

Posted on December 11, 2009 at 3:04 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 162

Interesting article in the Star Tribune regarding Twins 2010 ticket sales.

Any season ticket holders get that letter that says their tickets would be released if full payment not received by 5pm on December 11?

I did not get any letter, but I also selected the 5-month payment plan for my tickets.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 10:37 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 163

How do we get the colours by our names?
Not everyone has them, but lots of you do...

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 1:29 PM by luke Highlight this comment 164

Click my name on how to make colors.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 3:06 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 165

Yes goofball, very funny.
I meant how do you get the colors by the names here ON THE SITE??
God, it's like I have to spell everything out for you...
Mike's is blue, yours was baby poop green a few comments back, maz's is brown.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 4:01 PM by luke Highlight this comment 166

I MEAN IT. STOP PICKING ON MY KID.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 5:08 PM by LUKE, I AM YOUR FATH Highlight this comment 167

the twins have tended the contracts to all 30 players.

Got it from mlbtraderumors.com

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 6:19 PM by dickey Highlight this comment 168

Luke, if nearly everybody else has figured out how to make their name in color, why can't you? You can't be the dumbest person on the Internet, can you?

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 6:26 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 169

Well mofo, do YOU see any place for it on here? do YOU see any place to select colors on here? do YOU see kev in az and Locker and others on here with colors by their name, and do you rip on their asses too?

Christ TTH, sometimes...

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 8:09 PM by luke Highlight this comment 170

[c]color[/c] nope, that doesn't work.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 8:15 PM by luke Highlight this comment 171

Atkins is available now for 3B. Might be a good fit for the Twins, assuming last year was an anomoly, though I suspect he'll have to consider a significant salary cut.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 8:39 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 172

let's see if that works

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 8:39 PM by [red]luke (aka luke) Highlight this comment 173

or that...

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 8:40 PM by /red luke (aka luke) Highlight this comment 174

or that perhaps

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 8:42 PM by luke [/red] (aka luke) Highlight this comment 175

I hope I'm not being redundant, as this topic has probably been discussed already, but now that all the seats are installed, do we have the numbers for the official seating capacity?

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 8:55 PM by theCrippler Highlight this comment 176

Well, I've stopped trying to figure it out. I sent an email to Rick. At least he'll be nice about it. Take the hint TTH.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 9:05 PM by luke Highlight this comment 177

To the Crippler- I believe about a month ago the Twins announced the final ballpark seating capacity will be aproximately 39,800.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 9:16 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 178

Tom, isn't that about the same seating capacity as PNC and Wrigley? That's a nice round number.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 10:14 PM by Still Colorless (aka luke) Highlight this comment 179

Mike - my understanding after talking to my rep this week is that the Twins are indeed going to make the cut as of account status yesterday. Unless an account is paid in full or on the installment plan (with the first two payments made), the tickets will be released.

Not really sure why the Twins would take a hard line on this (since they aren't going to do the normal upgrade process this year), especially since many are still upset that the payment deadline was moved up so much earlier this year.

I can't imagine that we are talking a lot of accounts that will forfeit their tickets though.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 10:17 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 180

jfh - how many total single-game seats do you think will be available next season? Yeah, I know they're setting aside like the RF bleachers and some other sections specifically for single-game, walkup sales that sort of thing, but how about other seats?

I'm pretty sure the Twins won't pull a Wild, and have 93% of capacity as STH's. And, apparently, with every TwinsFest ticket purchase, you get a coupon for a free ticket to a Twins game next year. Restrictions apply, I'm sure.

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 10:42 PM by Still Colorless (aka luke) Highlight this comment 181

I want colors cuz we're all gay right?

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 12:04 AM by bruno Highlight this comment 182

I can't believe I just wasted the last 30 seconds of my life reading the exchange between Luke and TTH about colors.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 08:26 AM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 183

lol Faber.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 08:35 AM by luke Highlight this comment 184

113 days till twins season opener, just saying!

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 09:48 AM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 185

Here's a little color for you, luke.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 10:11 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 186

Do we know if STH are going to get first shot at additional single game tickets, or with Twinsfest be the first time single game tickets are on sale?

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 10:38 AM by Linc Highlight this comment 187

I don't think single game tickets will go on sale until later (March?). The Twins quit doing the Fest deal last year to bring them "in line" with how other MLB teams operate.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 11:32 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 188

Linc, Single game tickets no longer go on sale at Twinsfest. As of 2009, Twins single game tickets now go on sale in mid-March. I think 2010 single game tickets are scheduled to go on sale March 13.

As for STH's, usually there is a pre-sale for single game tickets for STH's who may want to purchase other tickets before they go on sale to the general public.

This year may be different though with the high demand and very high STH base (expected to be between 18-22K full season ticket equivalants) I have not yet heard about any pre-sales for STH's.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 11:33 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 189

Last year Season tickets holders were able to get "extra" tickets for single games the 3rd week in January..I can't remember if we could get 6 or 8 per game..That was the limit..I was told by Steve Smith back in October that this year the limit would be reduced to 2-4,or possibly none at all depending how sales go ending the year.With ticket sales now at 20,000 and Target Field holds 40,000 I would suspect that us Full season ticket holders would be lucky to get 2 extras per game...

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 2:29 PM by Steve Highlight this comment 190

let it go Luke...please

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 3:59 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 191

Yeah Maz, I've given it up.

Yep, Mike and Ben, I think you're both right, we have to wait til March. I think the Twins did that to coincide with the MLB on-sale? Not sure, but I thought that's why they did it.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 4:11 PM by luke Highlight this comment 192

There was a big push for season ticket sales before the 2009 season and it continues into next season. Might that be a reason for waiting till March to sell single game tickets?
I thought that article in the Strib about Twins "hard line" was strange. They mentioned at the end that there was an installment plan, but complained that it required a significant sum. I assume it only required 20%. I guess some people may have missed the info about the installment plan or didn't get around to setting it up online. December is a tough time to make full payment, but the five month plan is convenient with no extra cost.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 6:53 PM by robin Highlight this comment 193

Couple of things - I think it was pointed out here, but one of the people interviewed for the article got it wrong - if you signed up for the 5 payment plan by the end of October, you paid 1/5 when you signed up and 1/5 December, January, February, and March, I presume the middle of each month. The "big money upfront" was simply the first payment. Originally, the payment plan was only available to regular STH, but then expanded to include LC seats.

This leads me to believe that the Twins won't release the tickets until mid-March (which seems late).

With regard to STHs buying extra tickets, here is my understanding:

- extra tickets will be available sometime in February
- extra tickets for Opening Day will not be available
- there will be a per transaction (maybe per account?) limit for premium games

General public onsale will be sometime early March.

I suspect that initially any available Opening Day tickets will only be sold as part of a mini-package (e.g. buy 3, 6, or whatever games during the season and get opportunity to buy Opening Day) and that any remaining OD seats won't be sold on a single game basis until early April.

The preceeding is just my speculation based on what other teams have done and what is the most logical from the standpoint of leveraging ticket sales.

Luke - If the Twins think they will hit 20K STE, then that leaves about 18 to 19,000 seats that will be available for walk-up and group sales. (The Pavilion, Overlook, Right Field bleachers, Skyline seats (on the Club level), the Family section (310-311). I'm not sure on the number, because I don't know what the capacity for events suites is.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 9:31 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 194

and of course any seats not sold as season tickets (Home Plate Box, Field Box etc.) that aren't held back for the Twins and MLB (golden ticket or whatever they are called) will also be available for single game sales.

Posted on December 13, 2009 at 9:35 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 195

It makes me wonder if the guy interviewed for the article ($40,000 account!) even talked with his sales rep before talking to the reporter. That's a lot of money to plunk down at once.

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 05:23 AM by robin Highlight this comment 196

JNakamura posted some fun tour pictures (taken by A. Garletz if they arent the same person) of TF in the snow over at baseball fever. I didn't see the link here and thought i would share. Click my name. There are 3 stadium pictures and a couple down on the northstar platform. Enjoy!

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 08:26 AM by Jared Highlight this comment 197

"It makes me wonder if the guy interviewed for the article (in the Strib)" --- Another very possible element in the equation is that reporters seem to no longer necessarily put much effort into obtaining the facts, or be required to do so. In the case of the removal of the "old Met" flagpole from the Richfield Legion, for example, the reporter spoke to the post commander who, I do not believe, had not even been born yet when the pole was obtained and didn't have the foggiest idea of it's history. The resulting piece in the Strip was either OK reading or excellent dead fish wrapping, depending on your perspective and how you view the use of factual information.

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 08:27 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 198

New Topic:

Anybody (UofM, independent scientists) plan on doing a wind study before the season starts?

Now that all of the seats are in and the main structures are all in place, it would be nice to see if, for instance, right field is a major jet stream (either in or out).

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 11:52 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 199

Wow...

Detroit to drop Tigers moniker

In the wake of corporations dropping athlete Tiger Woods from sponsorship deals for his confessed infidelity, the Detroit Tigers announced Monday that they, too, would separate themselves from any association with the four-time Masters golf champion.

"While the city of Detroit has a long and rich heritage with Tigers baseball, owner Michael Ilitch and the baseball operations team, including myself, feel it is best for the Detroit baseball club and its fans to do away with its association with Mr. Woods," said Detroit General Manager Dave Dombrowski. "Mr. Woods has soiled the good moniker of several teams, including our own, and we feel it is time to move forward."

Woods, a 10-time PGA player of the year, announced this weekend that he would be taking an indefinite leave of absence from the sport of golf following disclosures of multiple affairs. Consequently, Accenture dropped its sponsorship with the winner of 71 PGA events. Woods is married to model Elin Nordegren and has two children.

Dombrowski did not elaborate on what the Detroit team would now be called other than to say that the marketing department would work on finding a suitable nickname. Online discussion boards have been abuzz with suggestions, including the Detroit Cheetahs, Pumas, Jaguars and Leopards. The Lions nickname is already affiliated with the city's NFL team.

Clemson, Auburn, LSU, Pacific, Colorado College, Memphis and 47 other post-secondary schools bearing the Tigers nickname refused to comment.

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 12:02 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 200

Wow! I can't believe they'd just throw out all that tradition just because of some golfer!

/s

TTH, you should write for the Onion.

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 12:08 PM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 201

It is fun to bash the media, Ben, isn't it. Not that I think it was warranted in this case. All that reporter did back in October was a short piece talking about the flag moving. I really don't see the point in her going in-depth to find someone who was around 30 years ago when the flag made the trip to the post. That might be interesting to stadium nerds like us, but for what the Strib was doing, just talking to the commander was more than enough.

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 12:10 PM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 202

In other news, I see the roof supports going up on camera 1!

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 12:13 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 203

" --- but for what the Strib was doing, just talking to the commander was more than enough." Except for those who, like myself, prefer factual information. Maybe a nit-pick, but the piece delivered "news" which was just flat not so. She could easily have located someone who knew what they were talking about but, in her defense, was instructed otherwise.

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 12:37 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 204

TTH, how fast do you think Luke scurried to the webcam to see the roof supports going up?

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 2:50 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 205

TTH, funny

FCA, I bet he was there in a hot second...

Ben, you quite possably are more crusty and pissed off than kevin.. and i say that with love.

better yet im sure luke has not seen the webcam yet or the post or he would ave already posted his mandatory 40 comments on the subject then posted a link to the last convo about the roof... then he would of course kneel down and pray to the Rick god! lol

all in fun, all in fun...

hey lafferty,

im going to LA in feb and want to tour Dodger stadium what should I look for?

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 4:59 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 206

LMAOSFHMHWE TTH.
"Made you look" jokes have to be a little bit more legitimate and believeable than putting retractable roof supports up - FOR AN OUTDOOR BALLPARK!

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 5:19 PM by luke Highlight this comment 207

"im going to LA in feb and want to tour Dodger stadium what should I look for?"

Tommy Lasorda playing poker with the Philly Phanatic.

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 5:50 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 208

Nice one TTH. Reminds me of my desire that they change the pistons name to the Bears. Lions, Tigers and Bears all in one city.

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM by Camden Highlight this comment 209

Oh my!

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 7:30 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 210

New (YAWN) ballpark blog post by DSP - (click on name)

Posted on December 14, 2009 at 9:39 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 211

hey maz - i liked you better when you were primarily a "drunk" poster. you've changed man.......you've changed

whaaa happened?! ;-)

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 01:04 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 212

Why name the street Twins Way? I like this ballpark but this cutesy crap needs to stop. For some reason Twins Way sounds stupid to me, am I the only one who feels this way? Maybe it's because I'm old. Maybe it's because it's 2:30am and I can't sleep. I understand not naming the street after any players because no players have played there yet. So if it has to be Twins______, why not Twins Terrace or Twins Trail or Twins Place?

Whenever I hear Twins Way all I'm going to think about is "doing things the Twins way"....or doing nothing at all.

Back to bed.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 03:31 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 213

I agree. But only because I'm crusty and pissed off.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 07:28 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 214

Careful luke don't get sucked in...

*Courtesy eddieshore at baseballfever

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 08:07 AM by Jared Highlight this comment 215

Well 7th street near Target Field has the potential to be named after a certain player who currently wears #7...

Any fellow season ticket holders participating in the guaranteed "giveaway"? I got my form yesterday (Dec 14) and the letter was dated December 4. The Twins are requiring a response no later than Friday, December 18 so that does not leave much time for people like me who just received the letter this week.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 08:46 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 216

Does anybody else get the feeling that Joe Mauer = Kevin Garnett? A great player who will ultimately bring us zero championships, will move on and give us nothing in return? I realize this will bring out pitchforks because he's "one of us" (which is a load of crap in itself), but it wouldn't be a bad idea for the Twins' front office to dangle him as trade bait and see what it might get us in return. That is, if we had a competent front office.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 09:09 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 217

The "guaranteed giveaway" deadline has been extended. One very odd particular = them saying they need to know what quantities to order while also saying they don't know what (or even how many) items a package will contain - typical Twins BS. It is looking more and more like no bobbleheads this year - which, in my opinion, is what made the deal borderline palatable. For $50, crap like DQ caps and ticket lanyards does not cut it. The team is also still hustling the "limited quantity available" all Metrodome Team medallion set - good humor.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 09:16 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 218

Mike ---

Notice that I did not ask how long it takes you to write your name and lick a stamp. It's the new, uncrusty Ben!

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 09:20 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 219

Ben, When did they extend the "deadline" to? I figured it might be worth it next year considering they would give out some very nice giveaways as its both the 50th season of Twins baseball and the Inaugural Season at Target Field.

On the other hand, the Twins KNOW they will draw 3 million fans next year, so promotions won't be necessary. Afterall, the idea of promotions is to draw fans to the ballpark. When you know you are going to sell out essentially every game, do you think the Twins will really have many promotions?

I completely agree with the lanyards, DQ caps, and that stuff.

Even some of the bobbleheads have lost their popularity in recent years in my opinion. Maybe a Mauer MVP Bobblehead or Gold Glove bobblehad or some special Twins Hall of Fame bobbleheads or 50th Season bobbleheads of Twins greats from the 50 years. I would like to see a Herb Carneal and/or Bob Casey bobblehead as well.

I hope the Twins give out panoramic pictures to season ticket holders of "The First Pitch"/"Inaugural Game" just like the Gophers did for TCF Bank Stadium.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 09:42 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 220

I've been reduced to lurking by, cough, real work (yuk). But I've been following the discussion of course. Some thoughts:

STHs get first crack at all the non-STH seats? I understand the reasoning but sheesh, can't the lesser-financially-endowed catch a break now and then?

Not sure why the Twins are going all Guido on the STHs. It may be just a case of realizing they have a stick and needing to wave it. (It's easy to have less patience with deadbeats when you know your product will be in hot demand.)

"Twins Way" = Meh. Pretty much anything would have been better, but the days of naming streets after players may be behind us (you may remember that "Kirby Puckett Place" didn't sound too good there for a while). Unlike, say, a gate at your ballpark, changing the name of a street requires an Act Of Government, which can take a while. And the only safe people options, "Tom Kelly Path" or "Gene Mauch Road" just don't have quite the same ring to them. ("Billy Martin Alley" anyone?)

Drunk posting is welcomed and encouraged.

Crusty and pissed off posting is welcomed and encouraged.

If Seventh Street gets renamed after Mauer, doesn't Fifth Street automatically get renamed after Cuddyer? Stop the madness!

What's this about a "guaranteed give-away"? What do you get?

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 10:23 AM by Rick 221

TTH,

I'll take the bait... I think the KG/Mauer analogy breaks down when you consider the team each player was/is on.

In 04-05 the Wolves were a quickly aging team (Casell, Sprewell, etc.) making a final push for a championship. Plus, their roster had numerous free agents to-be that looked unlikely to be brought back. Then from 05-07 KG was pretty much the only guy on his team who knew how to play basketball. Wally could shoot and Ricky Davis was decent, but the talent drop from there was drastic. My point is that the KG "situation" develped as the Wolves were either on the brink of or in the early stages of a drastic roster/team/organizational transition.

Joe, on the other hand, is the anchor of a young and talented team that appears to be still trending up. He is surrounded by some quality players, has an MVP teammate, and the talented nucleus of the Twins is a good mix of veteran guys and/or players that are locked up or under the Twins' control for several years to come (Morneau, Kubel, Cuddy, Span, Pavano, Baker, etc).

The transition the Twins need to make is from contender to championship-caliber, which is very different from the transition the Wolves were trying to make when they dealt KG.

As far as dangling Joe for trade bait... I think that's probably the worst decision the Twins could make. Consider that Joe wants to know that the Twins will (a) take care of him financially, and (b) compete for a championship. How does entertaining offers for him accomplish either of those aims? It signals that they don't think they can meet his demands.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 10:25 AM by Margaret Thatcher Highlight this comment 222

The "guaranteed give-away" is an option offered to STHs - for an additional fee, you get a box full of all the items that the Twins dole out over the course of the season to "the 1st 10,000 fans to today's game." It usually contains a few bobbleheads, a few pennants, a very small bat with some sponser's stamp on it, and other baseball-related accoutrements.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 11:27 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 223

This current Twins squad is a contender? For what? The AL Central crown and nothing more. It takes career-type years for us to barely win divisions.

The Twins hold on to players too long, then get little in return. (See Santana, Hunter ...) Joe is a great hitter but so is Ichiro.

Maybe it's time to think outside of the box and stop being the Midwest Mariners.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 11:30 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 224

Course, the way the Mariners are dealing these days, that's a compliment TTH. First they got Figgins and now it looks like they're getting Cliff Lee. The Twins could only hope to do so well in the offseason.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 11:57 AM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 225

Rick, are you sold out of calendars? I don't see your store link on the site anymore.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 12:02 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 226

TTH,

We just need to accept the fact that the Twins are doing it the Twins way on Twins Way. *pukes*

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 227

Perhaps comparing them to the Mariners isn't the best. The Mariners do spend big bucks from time to time. The problem is, they usually end up being busts, al a Richmond Lockwood Sexon. (Yes, that's his real name.) We like to spend sparse amounts of money on busts.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 228

As I said, Truth, the Twins need to transition from being contenders to being a championship-caliber team (the obvious implication being that we currently are not a championship-caliber team).

As far as holding onto players for too long and then getting little in return... can you give an example other than Santana and Hunter? And what would you have done differently with Johan and Torii? I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, dude, I'm legitimately interested in what you would have done differently.

Would you have traded Torii in 2007 when at the deadline the Twins were 4 games over .500 and still in the thick of the division race? Would you have traded Johan at the same time and been accused of waiving the white flag or holding a "fire sale"? I think our negotiating strategy with Johan was severely flawed, but do you really think we held onto him too long?

It's easy for us to claim that we're ahead of the curve by aligning ourselves with the "winning side" of past events whose outcomes have been determined. But I'm wondering how a lot of the highly critical posters here would do things differently, beyond complaining more loudly than the next guy.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bashing anyone or being a hater. I actually think there are a lot of valid points to be made about how our front office handles some things. I would just like to hear some substantive ideas along with the harsh critique because I think then we could really have a good debate.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:11 PM by Margaret Thatcher Highlight this comment 229

Faber (and all),

Here's the short version of the calendar/scrapbook story:

They were deemed by the Twins' lawyers to be "infringing".

When the president of a large corporation uses the words "cease and desist", what's a simple fan supposed to do?

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:13 PM by Rick 230

What a joke, that is NOT the Twins' ballpark. Its run by the Ballpark Authority, a state-run organization.

This entire project is a public project and fans should have the right to document it's progress as they so choose.

How many times have we heard, this is "Minnesota's ballpark".

There were no problems with the construction calendar last year, were there?? The Twins (or whoever ordered the cease and desist)definitely failed on this one.

I am disappointed because I was about to order a calendar and scrapbook.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:42 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 231

So, no more calenders or scrapbooks?

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:42 PM by Michael Highlight this comment 232

I will attempt to handle a few recent things in my usual disjointed fashion - maybe you should fill your coffee cup.

The deadline on the "guaranteed giveaway" offer (is it an offer if you don't what you are going to get?), as per the "Season Ticket Territory" area of the Twins site has been extended to 1/8/2010. Maybe, like Mike, people groused about the short time factor (the letters were going to be going out in "November"). Or, maybe, the Twins have already detected a decidedly tepid level of interest and are giving it more time. The chance that they want to allow more time in order to decide what the package will contain and actually let interested parties know is the same as the chance that the astronauts will discover water on Jupitor next Thursday.

As to the "guaranteed giveaway" program/offer itself, Expectorate made a pretty good stab but please allow me to tidy things up. The " --- program allows season ticket holders the opportunity to purchase preselected giveaway items planned for the --- season and have them delivered right to your door!" A package consists of "approximately seven" of "the most coveted promotional giveaways." This would be the third go-around and, in the past, they would include a line about likely contents of the package, obviously aimed at catching the eye of bobblehead geeks like myself. In 2008 the package consisted of all four SGA (Stadium Give Away) bobbleheads, both "bronze" statues, and a cheapo bat from one of the kiddie bat days. Last year it was the statues and bobbleheads again - although the SGA bobblehead offerings were down to two - both DQ caps and a cheapo ticket holder/lanyard. This year there is no mention of bobbleheads (not even a maybe), fueling speculation that the Twins are discontinuing that promo. The key to the deal value-wise, in my view, has been the bobbleheads. The Twins (as personified by Patrick Klinger) claim that they are unable to secure sponsorship for further bobblehead offerings (last year's were unsponsored and we all know too well how much the Twins like to open their own wallet --- I could express my view on the bit about the team being unable to find a sponsor for their, by far, most popular promo but that would require me to be crusty and VERY pissed off). So, value down and price up. The 2008 package was obviously a great deal for both collectors and speculators but what about 2010? Two statues, two crummy caps, and three pieces of trash? Anyway, the "package" comes in two parts, one mid-season and one post.

As far as what fans will, or would like, to see (aren't you glad you got me going)this year, I subscribe to the theory that the team, now that they have their new palace and are likely to be too busy counting their extra revenue, will have little regard when it comes to returning anything (at least promo-wise) to their loyal fans.
Big smiles, lots of spin, but basically an unspoken "Thanks for the new stadium --- suckers"! Why would they be good to people who, like the sheep that we are, are flocking of their own accord? When the tent is full the circus quits giving away balloons. I think (i)some(i) promos will continue, and look forward to the team continuing the "tradition" of issuing Twins HOF pins and lures (note that these are well sponsored and handed out to fewer fans). And, it is hard for me to envision a future without another Mauer bobblehead. I have also lobbied hard for a Casey bobbblehead which, I think, would be an incredibly classy thing for the Twins to do (Klinger said one was one the list for when emotioins subside a bit - many of the Twins organization were VERY fond of Bob Casey, a sentiment which any Twins fan possessed of a pulse shares). No question Carneal would also be a nice touch for all the same reasons. The Twins are talkig about an "inagural season" item (wouldn't a TF mini replica be nice!) but try to remember that the "final season" commemorative item they were talking about at this point last year turned into a cheapo pennant.

I have more but your cup needs refilling now.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:43 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 233

Marge,

If I were the Twins' front office (other than sic my attorneys on Rick) I would trade players like Torii at that time if I knew the realistic odds of signing him to an extension were longshot. I'm assuming Torii would have brought one good player and some higher-end prospects. Smart fans would understand why you pulled the trigger if you came out and explained why. (Of course, one of the front office's flaws is that it does a TERRIBLE job of communicating to its fans.)It's also scenarios like these that make me wonder how the front office treats its relationships with player agents... If you REALLY wanted Torii to stick around, then as a front office guy you'd REALLY want to make sure that the agent respects you and your efforts.

The Twins' Way is to curl up into a ball, and that's what is so frustrating to me.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:45 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 234

"They were deemed by the Twins' lawyers to be "infringing".

Whoa!!!! Is it possible to go lower than that? Can you (Rick) obtain another opinion? What would it cost to get someone (legal type) to comment. If it is worth a fight I say F**k the A**holes and get a legal fund going. I can't afford much but, say the word and my check for $100.00 is on it's way.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:55 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 235

Michael,

I was forced to cancel all the orders which had been placed to that point and refund all the money. Luckily, I was able to stop the printing presses in time. So neither item exists. (Nor do the additional items I was about to introduce.)

I continue to believe that I was on pretty solid "fair use" grounds. But I have no interest in playing the game of Lawyers with a big company -- especially for a project on which I did not expect to make a profit. The items were put together and offered as souvenirs for ballpark fans, basically so people could have something more tangible than a web site to remember the construction by.

Yes, I'm a little bitter about the whole thing.

No, I won't let it influence my enjoyment of TF next season.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:56 PM by Rick 236

Fair enough, Truth.

I'm not sure I agree with you on Torii's trade value because at the time almost no one thought he would produce even close to the kind numbers he's put up since 2007 (I guess the Angels thought so and got us on that one), but I can see where you're coming from.

I still think letting Torii go was the right move, but I can see why some fans would be frustrated by that type of decision. It's going to be interesting to see what impact the new stadium has on the way the Twins approach certain things.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 1:58 PM by Margaret Thatcher Highlight this comment 237

I think the thing that hurts the most about the Torii trade was that the Twins never replaced his bat.

Span and Hunter are two totally different offensive players.

We are still looking for a right-handed bat with Power/RBI ability.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 2:07 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 238

Truth, and other Twins fans wondering where this ballpark money is going:

Click my name for a link to a very good article concerning the Twins payroll. As Minnesotans, we're conditioned to always think, "gosh, they should spend more." Here's some evidence that they're doing exactly that.

I feel like payroll figures are more indicative of age of the team than performance of the team.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 2:08 PM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 239

Crap! With Rick's calendar boom going bust, he's going to have to find other ways to make coin -- like charging blog posters for colored names!! Say it ain't so, Rick!

Easy, Luke. Easy.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 2:11 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 240

Colored names? Sure! Let the bidding begin!

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 2:31 PM by Rick 241

Sorry, I meant the Torii non-signing. (not trade)

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 4:00 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 242

Funny, the Target Dome. To the untrained eye, might even be legitimate.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 4:27 PM by luke Highlight this comment 243

Rick, here's hoping that the Twins find a way to make it up to you. (For the lack of access/pictures thing too.)

C'mon Twins, give the man and his son some free signed souveniers or let them throw out a first pitch sometime in April. They deserve it!

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 4:57 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 244

Ben

I'm with you - if bobbleheads are absent, guaranteed giveaway is not worth it. I also agree that an updated Mauer bobblehead is needed. The likenesses are not exactly uncanny for any of them, I know (though I think Gardy's and Aguilera's were decent), but with Joe's bobblehead from '07, the similarities to the real man end at the sideburns and the lefty batting helmet.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 5:24 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 245

Bobbleheads are lame.

What the Twins name their little street will have no impact on my life.

Twins lawyers suck.

Margaret, I think you need to explain your invasion of the Falklands before you start demanding opinions on Twins' personnel matters.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 7:00 PM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 246

Nobody messes with the Iron Lady. Just ask the trade unions... or Argentina.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 7:46 PM by Margaret Thatcher Highlight this comment 247

TTH,

I am not sure whether or not you follow the Twins' farm system but we drafted Shooter Hunt and Carlos Gutierrez with our compensatory draft picks acquired from Torii's departure.

Both of these talented young pitchers are in Seth Stoh's top 50 Twins prosects.

Posted on December 15, 2009 at 11:04 PM by Wanda Phillips Highlight this comment 248

"Twins lawyers suck."

The lawyers are only doing what they were told to do. My guess is that it was a (successful) bluff to back Rick off. Would they really follow through with a suit? Would it be an efficacious move PR-wise? It strikes me as incredibly small and petty.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 07:11 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 249

Beta,

I do most of my drunk post during the season when i am forced to slam beer after beer when i see jesse crain warming up, or when i am posting on location(miller park, the cell, bush, ect) I will be back to for your enjoyment prob in feb when i take my next road trip im gonna crash torri hunters spring training grounds in AZ.. the complex it about 5 mins from my brothers house... i just hope they report buy mid feb...

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 10:05 AM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 250

Here is the Florida Marlins new homerun celebration sign. Click my name.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 10:35 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 251

don't ya mean the Miami Marlins!

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 10:50 AM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 252

I couldn't think of anything more dumb as a celebration sign.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 10:55 AM by Steeks Highlight this comment 253

Wow. That celebration sign is very Cirque du Soleil. Is that really the look you want for a baseball stadium? (Also, the celebration sign in general is already bordering on cliche. What will the Yankees' sign look like? A pinstriped guy flipping off 29 other-colored guys?)

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 11:13 AM by Nick in CO Highlight this comment 254

Dont want to sound like a hater... but that is a freak show... ick...fugly as hell

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 11:43 AM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 255

Well, the fog is lifting a little as to why the Twins organization has treated Rick like a potential terrorist. (No, you can't take pictures INSIDE THE BUILDING.) I fully expect them to sell their own construction calendar.

This has all been about money.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 11:46 AM by Dave T Highlight this comment 256

I would call that Marlins celebration more Monty Python-esque than anything else. Are they sure Terry Gilliam was not the artist behind that? I kind of like it but it really has no business being in a baseball stadium.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 11:48 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 257

meh, from what I know about Miami (which isn't much) that seems to fit in with the surroundings.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 12:15 PM by some guy Highlight this comment 258

That Marlins celebration sign looks like some sort of cheap mardi gras leftovers.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 12:48 PM by ace Highlight this comment 259

Anyone see that Mike Cameron signed with the Boston Red Sox?

This is the same Mike Cameron who blasted the Twins for opening a new OUTDOOR BALLPARK when he played in Milwaukee last year.

Last I knew, Boston has an open-air ballpark as well, but now that the Red Sox threw some big money at him, its OK to play outdoors in weather that is very similar to Minneapolis in the early season.

Just goes to show you half these players know nothing and they will go wherever the money is regardless.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 1:04 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 260

And Mike you forgot to mention where the season opener will be for Mr. Cameron for his new team: Minneapolis! IRONY!!!

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 1:16 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 261

Give props to the Marlins organization though for doing something more than just using LED light trickery to mimick hand shaking.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 1:20 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 262

Wow, that Marlins thing is, well, weird -- and not in a good way.

Clearly, the concept of a "celebration sign" was hatched by somebody at Populous, and it's part of the new cookie cutter approach: "Every park must have one." It cheapens our (otherwise very cool) version of the idea.

Maybe those signs are cheaper than fireworks in the long run.

But even so, that Miami thing is some kind of serious weirdness.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 1:29 PM by Rick 263

Poor Senior Olivia. Must have been horrific stuck in that Metrodome bathroom.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 1:43 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 264

I meant Oliva. My bad.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 1:45 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 265

Rick, seriously...

I think you should try to go to the media with this one. Seriously, talk about "Twins Territory". It would be great to see a story run about how they continue to mistreat fans of the new park. What a bunch of trolls.

You continue to make money for the Twins...and they continue to step all over you.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 1:46 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 266

Mike,

Be careful...Cameron will be signing here when he's 42 and needs a place to play mediocre outfield.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 1:48 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 267

OG Jeff,

I know there are media folks who follow this blog, but I'd be very surprised if anyone picks it up. They have too much to lose. (The mass media here is pretty cozy with their meal tickets...)

You may have noticed that the only media outlet to run a picture of potentially obstructed views at TF was the one that makes zero dollars from the Twins: MPR. They were also the only ones to pick up my later analysis...

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 2:41 PM by Rick 268

Someone left a critical post on DSP's blog about the Twins being rude to bloggers and this site... I went to re-read it this afternoon after these posts and it has been deleted by the Twins...

I do understand why they'd delete criticism like that on their own site. What totally sucks that even a beat writer won't step up to the plate to call out the kind of bullying the Twins do to enthusiasts and fans like you.

You do great work, Rick. Keep up the wonderful posts.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 2:57 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 269

It makes my blood boil that the suits would put the kibosh on the stadium scrapbook and calendar. I mean do the big wigs hire consultants to find ever more clever ways at TF buzz killing? I would not be surprised one bit if they are in midst of putting together their own calendar and scrapbook with their corporate stamp on it. The amount of greed surrounding TF continues to astound me. They should really be ashamed about the way that they treat your (Rick) invaluable publicity for the team's new facility.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 3:08 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 270

You guys are going to tire of me saying this, but --- if the Twins would channel all this energy (and resources) into actually putting a competitive team on the field we would all have a damn sight less to take them to task for. Play ball!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 3:22 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 271

More on that Marlins celebration sign tabbed as art...

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 3:28 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 272

If the Twins were more serious about limiting outside parties (i.e. this site) from posting pictures and discussing the ballpark, then they should be doing a better job of updating their site and DSP updating his joke of a blog more than once every couple of months.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 3:29 PM by pawelk12 Highlight this comment 273

BWAHAHAHA! That Marlins idea is horrible. I think the Twins sign is both historic and appropriately understated for nice mid-westerners. We're not in your face...just congatulating each other on a job well done. Whoever said the Marlins idea looks Gilliam-esque is right on the money.

Our celebration sign is no Bernie Brewer sliding down into a frosty mug, but I really like it.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 5:31 PM by Linc Highlight this comment 274

Tony O's predicament reminds me of the time Jim Murray of the LA Times got stuck in the mens' room in the football press box at the Old met after an NFC title game. He nearly was left in there all winter because they were locking things up for the season. Fortunately for Ol' Jim, a security guard made one last round of checks and found him trapped. The guy would have been a popcicle in a matter of hours.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 6:18 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 275

I'm sure you will all get a chance to own a construction scrapbook. It will be part of the top promotions and give-a-away included this coming season. They will get Cub or Rainbow to front all of the costs to produce the item and then charge everyone that receives it $50 to get there hands on one. Pretty nice deal for the Twins. No cost to them, other than some legal fees to stop Rick and another income stream from all of the STH's that don't want to be one of the first 10,000 fans to enter the park for that game.

A nice gesture would be to use some of Rick's photos and pay him a royalty. I wouldn't hold my breath. The Twin's at their core, really aren't any different than the Yankee's or Red Sox's. Make as much money as you can, where ever you can. Why do the Vikings now play at MOA field?

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 6:38 PM by minn55441 Highlight this comment 276

Did anybody see John Kruk on Sportscenter this morning. He was talking about what's he's been doing this offseason to keep busy, or something like that, and at the end of his little skit, carl ravich asks him what he's doing. well krucky is sitting on a pickup tailgate in a parka with a twins hat on and says to carl "I'm just trying to get used to the cold weather for when I have to cover the Twins in April" carl goes on to say "don't they play inside?" Kruk than says "not any more" while shivering. Well something along those lines anyway.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 7:34 PM by Nikc Highlight this comment 277

I caught the skit as well featuring Kruky. He played with a baseball glove at the local sporting goods store and then meandered about how the Washington Nationals need to improve their defense. Then he closed-grip bench pressed a ten pound weight with Ravech spotting him and blabs about how the New York Mets need more power. Finally Ravech spots Kruky outside on the back of a truck. The Krukster then reasons ineloquently for why he is wearing a bumblebee parka with a Twins cap on his head. It appears to me to simply be a "we don't have any baseball news to share since most of our staff has gone to the MLB Network so we'll put together some baseball highlights with a few of our remaining staff in the hopes that people still remember us come baseball season" move.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 8:38 PM by NotMendoza Highlight this comment 278

I am a little surprised that Kruk realizes that Minnesota is getting a new ballpark before the home opener against Boston even if a thinks that a Minnesota april is comparable to december in Boston. Good effort though.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 9:39 PM by ManBearPig Highlight this comment 279

The C&D letter sucks.

If you want to, should be reasonably easy to defend against, since I don't think the Twins ballclub have any standing to block pictures of Target Field, with the possible exception of any involving the Twins logo or uniforms. They apparently got exactly the reaction they wanted - they expected that you wouldn't call their bluff.

Too bad Twins management doesn't understand the value of sites like these.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 10:49 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 280

I just finished catching up on the posts over the last couple of days and am quite perturbed over this calender/scrapbook deal, Rick. I am sitting here and want to comment more but feel it would turn into a novel. To sum it all up, it is COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT!

With that, I would like to thank you again for all the work you put forth for us ballpark/twins fans. It is greatly appreciated.

Posted on December 16, 2009 at 11:25 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 281

The only reason the Twins are doing this c+d stuff is too make them look better in my opinion. It would look bad if someone covered the whole Twins stadium thing better than them which this website clearly does. And of course the Twins want to make more money off of the public by putting out their own stuff. I myself would rather get stadium information from here since it is sooo much better than the B.S. The Twins put out. I suppose the Twins will say next that they dont consider A brick wall with railings an obstructed view hahahahahah.

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 12:26 AM by Leroy Highlight this comment 282

My reaction to the Twins cease and desist letter? *Yawn*

Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't do it earlier and I can't share the outrage that many people around here have. Sorry.

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 09:24 AM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 283

Maybe it's because the stadium is mostly done and there's not much going on in free agency for the Twins, but I hate the angle the comments on this site have taken recently.

It's gone from celebrating the team and the new ballpark, to nitpicking problems about Target Field and complaining about the front office. Frankly, it's beginning to resemble KFAN's Rube Chat a bit too much for my liking.

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 09:26 AM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 284

The Minnesota always-being-cold-bit is silly but we all know it will never go away. It's our state's stereotype and the first thing that pops into anyone from outside the MN world about us. It's fine by me though. Keep the uninformed away and let us enjoy our spring/summer/fall (and for some winter (if that's what you're in to)) paradise all to our own!

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 10:51 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 285

Joe Mauer apparently to be on cover of MLB 10: The Show

A couple of screenshots of the game which includes Target Field and Joe Mauer. Target Field looks pretty good in that game!

Can't wait to buy this game on March 2!

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 11:36 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 286

Thanks Mike. The Show 09 was amazing - it looks like this year is going to be awesome. I wrote SCEA a while back with my reasons why Mauer should be on the cover... let's cross our fingers!

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 12:17 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 287

I'm excited for the game as well. I don't think I've played a franchise with the Twins and still used the Dome as my home field. I always chose an outdoor stadium. It will be nice not having to do that this year!

The pic in the gallery that shows right field and the over-hang is pretty damn sweet!

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 12:23 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 288

You're right, DreDogg: That shot of RF is so realistic that when I zoom in I can see the disappointment on the faces of the fans sitting to the right of the overhang as they can't see where Joe hit the ball!

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 1:02 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 289

I was hoping the Twins would pick up G. Atkins from the Rox, but it sounds like the O's picked him up for 4 million, with an option for a 2nd year...

Sounds like a low-risk, high-reward commitment to me. Why wouldn't we have gone after him? IMHO, he's a solid r.h. hitting, average to above average glove, HEALTHY 3B. What do you guys think?

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 3:47 PM by N.D. "Rube" Highlight this comment 290

I was thinking the same thing, TTH!

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 3:54 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 291

It's official. We should get to see lots of cool Target Field screens in the coming weeks...

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 292

I'll second that TTH. That RF shot looked really good.
I'm hoping, maybe at some point, if there isn't already, there's a bootleg 'walkthrough' video of the game posted on YouTube that might show TF in action.

Thankfully, they're still making them for PS2. For financial reasons, I haven't upgraded to PS3.

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM by luke Highlight this comment 293

On the topic of streets named after Twins players, is there anything more pathetic than Carew Drive on what was otherwise 9th Avenue South between 6th Street South and 7th Street South? The street has nothing particularly remarkable on it and the Metrodome can be seen, but not accessed from it. It's so out of the way that it would be unsurprising to learn that many Twins fans are unaware that it exists.

I also hope the Twins resist the temptation to start filling the Target Field plaza with statues of former players. Most of the statues, usually crafted from bronze, that I've seen in front of stadiums and arenas are so awful looking that they hardly seem to honor the player in question.

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 294

Why no Atkins? It could be because he's known traditionally to be a horrible batter away from Coors Field. Heck, last year he couldn't even hit at Coors Field either. The Twins would be better off resigning Crede or going after DeRosa.

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 5:06 PM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 295

Hey Rick -
It's funny you guys were talking about the local media not doing the story, because I planned to bring it up at our Friday morning editorial meeting. But how do I get ahold of you during the day if we want to do the story?

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 8:33 PM by TC 34 Highlight this comment 296

Jorge -

They'll definitely be putting statues up around the place. And they'll definitely be awful. Click my name for the artist website (it was posted here a while back)

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 9:26 PM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 297

Yeah I guess I've never really understood all the hype created with Bill Mack's work. For a ballpark I would rather prefer traditional 3D sculptures that you can walk around. But I did have my doubts with the other public art around TF and have been pleasently surprised. I also give the twins props with sticking with a local artist.

Posted on December 17, 2009 at 10:35 PM by ManBearPig Highlight this comment 298

Looking at that overhang....if the ball hits off the facing of the overhang, is it in play or a home run? It always looked to me like they have the fans pushed back from the edge of the overhang, so presumably a fan could not reach over, into the field of play, and grab a fly ball that would otherwise be fair...right?

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 06:00 AM by Linc Highlight this comment 299

Linc - I imagine that it would be a homer, akin to hitting the ball off the Baggie or the foul poles. I'm guessing we won't have too many ground rules at TF, but that could be one of them.

What interests me a little (I think we mentioned it here at some point) is that, the facade of the overhang is made with limestone. Some parts are smooth, some are jagged. If hitting the ball off the overhang facade is still declared in play, it could take an awful bounce and might (I emphasize might, depending on who's batting) make for some interesting extra-base hits.

In the original design for a Twins ballpark (the retractable roof one that was going to be on the site where the Guthrie is now), there were going to be two section overhangs in left field, with a five or six foot gap between them. There was a big thing about, if it's a little to the right or a little to the left, it's a home run. But if it goes between that gap and hits the wall, it's still in play.

At least the ground rules at TF will not include hitting the roof, the speakers or hiting the ball through a drainage hole, a la Dave Kingman 1984.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 06:59 AM by luke Highlight this comment 300

Uh, the ball needs to go OVER the fence to be a HR.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 07:51 AM by strategery Highlight this comment 301

I don't know if I should laugh or shake my head at some of the haters comments on that MLB 2010 The Show page. "I never heard of him" "Twins Suck" "Mauer is over rated" "Go Yankees" Bunch of d-bags.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 08:51 AM by JohnC Highlight this comment 302

Just looked at Bill Mack's online gallery. I didn't think his work was bad. He's got the naked chick sculptures down pretty good, and maybe the Twins should add a few of those around TF. Kent Hrbek or a naked chick -- whose bust would you rather stare at?

Luke's theory of what constitutes a home run makes me wonder if he's actually ever seen a baseball game.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 09:18 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 303

Noooo!!! Naked bronze Kent Hrbek statue!!!

Wrong. Just wrong.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 09:41 AM by Dale Highlight this comment 304

Luke, C'mon man, don't feed misinformation. A ball hitting the baggie at the dump was in play, not a homerun.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 09:54 AM by JohnF Highlight this comment 305

Adding to the overhang convo in regards to the comment of the first row being "pushed back"...there is a flower bed at the front of the overhang. I'm guessing the first row of seats are pushed back about 3 or 4 feet from the edge.

Rick or anyone else that has taken the tour, can you estimate the distance?

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 10:21 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 306

Seriously, what makes you think a ball hitting the baggie was a homerun?? That is complete misinformation.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 307

If a ball hits the facade of the overhang in right field, it is in play. This was mentioned in an article I read. I will try to find it and post.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 308

Here it is. It is the same MPR video that we got to see the horrible obstructed view in right. He states that a ball hit of the facade is in play.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 309

Two words: Jeffrey Maier. No dinger unless you're an ump in Yankee stadium and are paid to make pro-Yankee calls.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 310

That a'boy, TC 34!

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 12:10 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 311

This from the Twins:

A Holiday Gift from the Twins and FOX Sports North

The Twins and FOX Sports North are proud to present fans with a holiday gift - an exclusive encore presentation of game 163, the classic 2009 AL Central Tiebreaker. 163 Presented by Best Buy premieres on FSN in high definition on Christmas Day, Dec. 25, 2009 at 7 p.m. Join us in reliving the magic!

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 12:46 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 312

Yeah I went to set my DVR for the speical presentation of game 163 on the 25th and it only runs from 7pm-8pm.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 12:54 PM by jincr Highlight this comment 313

Rick,

I remember you mentioning a publication that gives an ultra-thorough analysis of either the Twins' season or the enitire organization. I even remember you saying that you'd buy the paperback edition but were holding out for the hardback.

My question: what was the name of the publication and where can I get one?

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 12:56 PM by Vince Highlight this comment 314

Vince,

The publication is called TwinsCentric Offseason GM Handbook. They still don't have a hardcover version, but people who have seen the digital version really rave.

And everybody should also set their DVRs for the channel 5 news tonight (not sure which edition just yet -- I'll post if I hear). That's all I'm saying...

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 1:18 PM by Rick 315

Was 163 a FSN production?

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 316

Yes Twins fans, join us in reliving the magic that ended abruptly because we never do anything to improve our team. Relive the magic of coming back and winning the worst division in baseball. WIN TWINS!

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 2:01 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 317

Go gettem Rick!!!

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 2:21 PM by Eric Highlight this comment 318

Luke? what are we going to do with you? slow down next time you get uber excited about a post you are going to type and THINK!

sometimes i wonder if your mom lets you watch the Twins night games anyway, they can go until 10 pm thats late on a school night

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 2:39 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 319

lol. Luke's derailing, train-wreck posts remind me of Howard Dean's infamous speech...

"First we're going to sweep the series in Detroit, then we're going to Cleveland, then we're going to Chicago, then we're going Kansas City, then Oakland, then Anaheim, then Seattle, then Arlington, then Tampa, then Baltimore, then Toronto, then Boston --- and then we're going all the way to New Yankee Stadium! BWWWWAAAAAAAhh!!!"

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 3:02 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 320

Target Field in MLB "The Show" 2010:

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 3:11 PM by Tim12 Highlight this comment 321

OK naysayers. Metrodome Ground Rules:
this is from Ballparks of Baseball - click my name for the link if you want it. you might have to scroll down on the page a bit.

Metrodome

OUTFIELD AREA

Batted ball in flight striking right field wall and goes out of play in foul territory: Two bases.
Batted ball in flight striking right field wall and goes out of play in fair territory: Home Run. "

The difference as I see it, is where the ball lands after hitting the right field wall, AKA the Baggie. And what did they say it was if it was in fair territory? *GASP a Home Run!

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 4:35 PM by luke Highlight this comment 322

The baggie is not the wall. The "wall" is the folded up seats above the baggie.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 5:01 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 323

You can catch Rick on the 6pm News on KSTP - Channel 5

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 5:10 PM by TC34 Highlight this comment 324

"You can catch Rick on the 6pm News on KSTP - Channel 5"
Cool....

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 5:24 PM by Steve Highlight this comment 325

Luke, Well of course if a ball happens to hit the top edge of the baggie and then continued over it would be a homer. Goes without saying.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 5:45 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 326

Same if a ball hits Jose Canseco in the heard and then goes over the wall. Homerun.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 5:46 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 327

Not heard, meant to type head.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 5:47 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 328

Honestly Luke...

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 5:47 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 329

i can't defend him any longer. putting him up for adoption. any takers?

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 5:56 PM by LUKE, I AM YOUR FATH Highlight this comment 330

Can someone grab/post the video of Rick on channel 5? Not sure I can get the remote Tivo to record quickly enough.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 6:05 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 331

Wow. Looks like the recording started just in time for the story. Unless someone beats me to it, I'll get the recording uploaded and cleaned up.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 6:20 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 332

Thanks Ben for straightening me out. I guess I considered the accordian seats as an eyesore disruption to the game. I never thought that the seats were considered "the wall."

Won't need to worry about it next year regardless.

Whilst we're discussing eyesores, what does everyone think of the new Vikings stadium plans released yesterday by the MSFC?

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 6:32 PM by luke Highlight this comment 333

The piece (and Rick) make it sound like it was the lawyers who put the ki-bosh on the calendar. Is that so? How would "the lawyers" even know there was a calendar on the horizon?

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 6:32 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 334

I assumed hitting off the face of the overhang is in play, as it hasn't gone "over" a wall, but who knows what they dream up. I assume there is a bright yellow line that actually defines the top of the outfield wall (imaginary or not), and they could draw that line along the bottom of the facade. I hope they don't.

I actually love that the uneven limestone will cause some weird things, both off the right field facing but also behind the plate after a wild pitch.

Why are these ok in my mind while odd bounces in the Metrodome were not?

a) It should be relatively rare for the limestone to come in play.
b) The stone is a natural surface, and isn't some dumb speaker hanging in the air or the bouncy-ist surface imaginable making choppers into doubles

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 6:50 PM by Linc Highlight this comment 335

That photo above from "The Show" is hilarious. The shadows could only be correct if TF were in the southern hemisphere. (It's not.)

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 7:42 PM by Rick 336

I'll post Rick's story as soon as it is posted on our website, if jfh doesn't beat me to it. As for the new Vikings stadium, our reporter told me yesterday that there are much more detailed computer images of what the stadium would look like, but the MSFC won't release those until they sort out their differences with the Vikings. But from what he said, they make the new design look worlds better than those lame water color sketches

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 7:44 PM by TC 34 Highlight this comment 337

TC34,

Way to go. Be sure to say thanks to Joe for me.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 7:50 PM by Rick 338

Good story by KSTP. It's too bad the Twins don't understand viral marketing and Rick's value to the online fanbase.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 339

Rick - I commend you for taking the high road in your interview. I just hope that there is a reward for you in doing so.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 8:26 PM by clublevelfan Highlight this comment 340

No problem Rick. Thanks for letting us do the story. I hope we did you justice. I thought Joe did a nice job telling the story. I'll let everyone else weigh in: click on my name for a link to the story

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 8:44 PM by TC 34 Highlight this comment 341

as usual rick finds a way to stay above the fray......even when it directly involves him!

anyways, nice interview rick. very professional and very well stated.

either way, i still think the twins lawyers are barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Beta

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 8:56 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 342

Rick, what I'm dying to find out is if you got any explanation about why it was ok to sell the calendars last year, but this year is different. As you mentioned, last year you sent a calendar to DSP and never heard a word.

On a different note, I love Luke's attempt to change the subject. "Hey, anyone see the Vikings plans?...Anyone...anyone???"

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 9:47 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 343

The plans unveiled are from the MSFC not the Vikings directly. Anyway, it think the structure is ugly and looks like the airplane hangar they built in Indy for the Colts. We've already built a stadium that looked like one in Indy and that one sucks too. Screw the NCAA, screw the superbowl, build a nice looking football stadium for $150 million less and keep the Vikings in town. They can still do tractor pulls in the summer like every other city in the country.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 9:52 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 344

I just noticed this from the MSFC website. It's funny the pic of the met with the caption nearby which reads "What was wrong with Metropolitan Stadium?" lol...I see a lot wrong with that photo!

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 10:13 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 345

It must have confused visiting ballplayers when they had to run the bases clock-wise.
As far as the Vikings are concerned, unless they build an open-air stadium themselves, it won't get built. The legislature, or whatever municipality or county that takes on the financing will insist on year-round use. If Zygi decides to build it himself as a developmental anchor, he'll need year-round use capabilities. Please don't hold your breath for an open-air stadium. I just don't think it's in the cards.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 10:23 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 346

Nice interview although Tom Petty also said "I Won't Back Down"..Not making any suggestions cause you came off as just a FAN of the Twins & Target Field which was nice...

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 10:26 PM by Steve Highlight this comment 347

Screw that Kevin. If we're footing the majority of the bill for this stadium, I want something that can be used more than a handful of days out of the year.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 10:36 PM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 348

Last year's calendar was never even mentioned.

As the channel 5 story says, I sent a copy of it to DSP (as well as Kevin Smith, Jerry Bell, Gardy, and Carl Pohlad -- though he died the day after I mailed it) along with a letter of thanks for how kind they had been to me and this web site.

When I mentioned this act of gratitude in another thread a few months ago, someone suggested that maybe that's the reason they cooled off toward the site. In fact, the chill in the relationship can be traced to almost that exact moment.

I think I may be my own worst enemy...

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 10:39 PM by Rick 349

Not exactly why the story was billed as a "controversy" and it didn't really address the underlying issue, but I hope it will generate traffic for the site.

I'm curious about the Twins Community Fund offer, but I don't buy the "the lawyers had a problem" argument. If they did, the C&D letter should've gone out the minute DSP received a calendar last year.

I still don't understand the "hostility" (for lack of a better word) regarding these types of sites and why they wouldn't be interested in using this site - clearly the creme of the crop when it comes to Target Field coverage - as an "unofficial" conduit for information.

Enough beating the dead horse.

Posted on December 18, 2009 at 11:33 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 350

The "controversy" aspect was pretty downplayed in the story (but played up in the promos). We talked about it in the interview, but there's only so much that will fit into a two-minute piece. (The interview lasted nearly an hour and covered a lot of ground, including me reading aloud from your comments!)

But the controversy is very real, and it revolves around the fact that Target Field was largely publicly-financed, is publicly-owned, and the calendar photos were mostly taken from public sidewalks and parking ramps (or from non-public locations with explicit permission).

The question is, therefore: What types of rights do members of the public have with this public facility? Do they have the right to take and publish photographs of it?

Complicated question. I certainly don't want to be the test case on that...

But when you look at it that way, it becomes obvious why they had to cut me off from their media tours: because including me would imply permission to actually use/publish any photos that I took. Why else would you have a "media" tour? It was never really about "a-ha moments" at all (but we knew that already).

Late this afternoon, it was suggested to me that the whole thing comes down to a "new media" issue. With entities like the Strib and the TV stations, the Twins probably have complicated and detailed agreements already in place to establish permissions and limits and settle any money issues up front. But since anybody can throw up a blog (sort of like too much beer and pretzels), no such agreements are ever in place, and there's no good way to figure out how or when to do it.

I'd be willing to talk to the Twins about such things, but until now, it never occurred to me that it would be necessary. So it looks like both sides were caught in the "new media" aspect.

As to the Twins Community Fund option that I was offered, it would have required:

1. Full disclosure of all my cost and sales information (including, potentially, all of the customer info);

2. 100% of the net revenues surrendered (not technically a problem because I didn't expect to have any -- I said as much); and

3. An agreement from me to never do anything like this again without explicit permission in advance, which I was told plainly would not be granted.

There's lots to be concerned about there, and I was also immediately concerned about the potential requirement of turning over copyrights for the photos. (They may not be worth anything, but they're mine!)

It was a poison pill that I chose not to swallow for those reasons and the obvious need to hire representation (which I can't afford) to protect myself through such a negotiation.

(If you're interested, you can get a look at the complete collection of calendar images, in PDF form, by clicking here.)

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 12:33 AM by Rick 351

oh goodie...more morons will be coming to this sight. get ready, i hear another roof discussion brewing!!!!

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 01:08 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 352

relax buffalo, it's just an opinion....i prefer the vikes outdoors, you don't. remember opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 01:08 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 353

I understand the idea behind using the Twins logo and Target logo, but is there even any legitimate legal action they can take if you snap some photos from public places of a public venue??

I would be interested in hearing from some legal minds on this issue, but you would think that TARGET would WANT the exposure??? Afterall, that is why they are paying all of that money for naming rights to have their name/logo plastered on this ballpark. And speaking of naming rights, its ironic that the Twins have been very quiet regarding the financial terms with Target relating to naming rights. It's been speculated to be in the $4-8 million/range annually, but we will never know exactly.

When you are driving west on 7th Street and approach the ballpark, you can clearly see the "TARGET FIELD" sign (above the Metropolitan Club) right there in front of you, same thing with the sign on back of the scoreboard. Easily visible from many public areas.

WHY are the signs illuminated at night?? If Target did not want their name/logo visible, they would NOT have acquired the naming rights in the first place.

The whole concept of naming rights is to have your name/logo "corporate identity" attached to a venue.

I have taken photos outside the Xcel Energy Center but the Wild and Xcel Energy don't seem to care about the many photos you see posted on the internet. At least I have not heard of any such cases, and that building is ten years old now.

In fact, the glass facade, and the red "Xcel Energy Center" sign has become a very well-known staple in the Twin Cities as you see many pictures of that. I am sure Xcel Energy is happy because its free advertising for them when people post pictures on the web.

I think the Twins are full of more BS on this issue, because I bet Target would be more than happy for the free advertising, especially in this economy.

In my opinion, it all comes down to greed and money and the Twins wanted to take Rick's independent and hard work and turn them into corporate profits. They than tried doing the Twins Community Fund "charity" cover up, essentially making themselves look like good corporate citizens when in fact, they gave Rick the shaft all along, hence the "poison pill" as Rick referred to.

Rick was in a no-win situation either way and definitely did the right thing in taking the high-road and avoiding the legal mess.

I feel as if the Twins are just embarrassed about their lack of creativity/effort for following the ballpark construction. The only thing the Twins cared about was in May 2006, when Tim Pawlenty signed the ballpark bill. Once the ballpark bill was signed, the #1 Twins priority was than getting season ticket deposits and "establishing new ballpark priority".

This whole issue makes me sick and its just another example of the small business/family guy in Rick losing out to the corporate giant in today's world. I could rant on even more about this but want to thank you Rick for all of your hard work and contributions to this site over the last 4+ years. I was about to order a scrapbook and calendar and was very disappointed to hear your news, but thank you anyway for your hard work and contributions! It's still very much appreciated.

And WHAT are the Twins going to do in April when those ballpark gates open to the public for the first time? Is DSP going to call each and every fan who posts pictures or wants to create a calendar?

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 02:17 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 354

Perhps it's not just the idea of Rick posting pictures on this site. Rick isn't doing it for profit. However, when he decided to publish the pictures featuring Twins and Target logos, then it became a situation where Rick stood to make a profit off the Twins and Target logos. That's when things went south between the twins and Rick.
During every baseball game, a disclaimer is read, prohibiting people from copying or showing the broadcast in a manner that would garner them profit. I think it might just be a similar situation.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 09:26 AM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 355

I see your point Winona and I think it's petty, either way from the Twins angle and from ours. I really don't find the calendar deal nearly as outrageous as the Twins bitching about people taking personal pictures from the public sidewalks, public skyways, etc. That's totally uncalled for. That's the story KSTP should have done. How is it that the Twins can control the construction site like it's area 51 when the structure that is being built is owned by the MN Ballpark Authority?

As Rick mentioned in the interview...Hey Twins, no more bullying bloggers...worry more about your gaping holes in the infield!

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 10:06 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 356

Rick - thanks for the additional detail. Makes a lot more sense now.

"But the controversy is very real, and it revolves around the fact that Target Field was largely publicly-financed, is publicly-owned, and the calendar photos were mostly taken from public sidewalks and parking ramps (or from non-public locations with explicit permission)."

Agreed. But that wasn't mentioned as the underlying issue.

Regarding the potential Twins Community Fund agreement, conditions #1 and #2 are reasonable (except potentially the details of customer info, especially if the agreement is with Ballpark Magic, since the "customers" aren't making a direct donation to TCF). #3 shows the real issue - the Twins just simply aren't prepared for (or have no interest in) dealing with "new media".

As for potentially signing over rights to the photos, BS. A poison pill indeed. The interview (or the editing) painted the Twins in a much more favorable light than these facts would otherwise justify.

Mike - your post is dead on. I think Rick did the right thing given the circumstances, but after looking at the images and vantage points of the photos, I'm 99% convinced the Twins would have lost had this ever gone to court, assuming it was in fact Twins legal that was behind this. The C&D letter and the "offer" were nothing more than scare tactics. I ran an organization a while back that received a C&D letter on something similar involving pictures taken outside property lines, but we called the bluff and won.

Part of the issue is indeed related to the logos (and that's the only potential issue here) - you can't use logos and registered trademarks of others beyond fair use. Selling a product for profit using said logos is a no-no (like knock-off jerseys). But these are pictures of a public venue and ADVERTISING - no different than taking a picture of a downtown skyscraper or a billboard.

I too would love to hear a legal opinion on this.

Would also love to see Target make a more reasonable deal with you to print and distribute the calendar for charity. :) ("Get the calendar the Twins don't want you to have!")

The sad thing is, as much as stuff like this annoys some of us, the Twins know that, although we may lose some respect for the organization, we'll still buy tickets, come to the park and buy food.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 10:06 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 357

Winona Mike - actually, you can't use the video of a game even if it isn't for profit without written consent of MLB.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 10:11 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 358

"Get the calendar the Twins don't want you to have!"

What an excellent idea!

And, my offer to contribute $100 to a legal opinion and/or defense fund still is on the table.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 359

Some people are touching on the reason why the C&D letter was issued. Yes you can take pictures of TF. Yes you can post them online. But, the Twins logo is their property and so is the Target Field logo (i imagine amongst others). The actual twins/tf signs and structures may be built with publicly paid for materials but the likenesses and such of the logos is their property. Therefore you can take and post images of them but once you start to sell them when the logos do not belong to you then you are violating their rights to solely publicly sell those logos.

The Twins are not money grubbing wh**es or trying to stomp the little guy in this situation. They are protecting their property. You would do the same if someone took a picture of you and tried to sell it without your permission, especially if they were making money from it and you weren't seeing a dime. But as Rick said, he wouldn't have been making any money really and he could have been helping the Community Fund but in the end that option would have cost him more than it was worth so he stopped selling. You may not like it but too bad, that's how it works.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 12:54 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 360

Oh, not to mention Rick understand where they are coming from and we only know certain details. No doubt there is more to it than just the logos but there have been bigger lawsuits (or C&D letters) over less.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 12:58 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 361

Leave it to the lawyers to not understand marketing and fan support.
It's the society we live in. Litigate to avoid litigation.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 1:18 PM by Lawyers are dumb Highlight this comment 362

Joe Mazan talked with a lawyer in his 4:30 story, saying the Twins had a legal right to block the sale of pictures with the team logo or the Target Field logo. However, he said it was a gray area when it comes to pictures of the ballpark itself. Rick, it's my fault that did not get mentioned in the 6pm version. I didn't realize he had left that out until I watched the story. But Rick does bring up a challenge of covering this story. There is enough material that this could have easily been a 5 or 6 minute investigation piece. But reporters are restricted to just 1:10 for a day of story. With his live intro and tag, that's just 1:30 for the story. As for the public ownership angle, we ended up shying away from it because the ballpark authority did not return our calls.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 1:50 PM by TC 34 Highlight this comment 363

Well, if you've ever read the FBI warnings on DVDs, you know that there doesn't have to be monetary gain for something to be considered infringement.

What still concerns me is that, by putting the Twins logo in gigantic letters on the scoreboard, the Twins have positioned themselves to shut down ANY pictures of the ballpark that might be used in a commercial publication without their permission.

For example, let's say that somebody wants to sell large framed prints of the skyline of Minneapolis at sunset. Since the skyline as viewed from the west now contains the Twins logo, would the Twins be within their rights to shut down such a project? By their reasoning with me, they would. But that's not what trademark laws are designed for.

In fact, there are valid ways to use other companies' trademarks written right into trademark law. That's called "fair use", and it is what I thought -- and still think -- I was doing. (There is also a clause which makes it illegal for a big corporation to intimidate a smaller entity with threats of a lawsuit over trademark issues. That's not what happened here. Nobody explicitly threatened me. And for clarity, no "cease and desist" letter was sent. It was merely mentioned prominently a few times in conversation.)

I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that by putting up gigantic signs with your logo, you have actually given tacit permission for photos of that sign to be used in any way that a photographer might choose. You have not given away the right to stamp merchandise with that logo, of course, but that's a very different thing from taking photographs -- from a distance especially.

I suppose I could revise a few of the photos:


Posted on December 19, 2009 at 2:15 PM by Rick 364

Would you also be infringing on the citizens of this nation by publishing a photo which contains the US flag?

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 2:46 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 365

Ben - only if it is flying on the flag pole from the old Met Stadium

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 2:54 PM by clublevelfan Highlight this comment 366

That would be half of the flagpole from ----------

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 367

Rick ---

Maybe you should irritate DSP a bit more often - that way he at least talks to you and him not forgetting who you are may well increase the chances of being invited to whatever ceremony the Twins will hold in regard to dedicating the Met pole. My guess is that neither you nor I will get any credit however - not that we necessarily care - but will it surprise you if it is spun totally as something we (the Twins) did for "Twins Territory"?

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 3:34 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 368

Ben,

I think it's safe to say that irritation is the first thing that comes to mind when DSP thinks of this web site... (I do genuinely regret that. It was not intended.)

And as for the pole, I'm quite certain that the names attached to its story will fade into the sands of baseball history.

All flesh is grass.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 4:48 PM by Rick 369

Rick-
You're right, I should have said not so much for money, but for "gain" in general. The tough part about "fair use" and your mention of the clause is that its law and there always seems to be specifics and grey areas that make it confusing. You almost have to be nose deep in trademark law on a daily basis just to have an understanding. I know I am one of those that are not. For the most part there some "rules of thumb" per se and there are some good websites out there to help us on the john q. public side of the trademark laws. I see all your reasoning and as a "more than amateur but not quite professional photographer" I agree.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 4:50 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 370

As far as I see it, the Twins were perfectly within their rights to stop someone from selling a publication in which they could potentially make money off images including their trademarked logos. Period.

And the issue is not just related to Rick. If they let it slide with Rick, who's to say more people don't decide to do the same. As Xerox, Thermos, Kleenex and other brands will tell you, if you let your brand out there for everybody to use, you can eventually lose that brand to public use.

Obviously that's a stretch in this case, and I doubt that would ever happen with the Twins, but if you're a business you need to be vigilant about EVER going down a path that would let that happen.

So, again, I saw *YAWN* to all the controversy rubes around here are trying to stir up about it. Just can't share in the outrage.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 6:37 PM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 371

Interesting that there was no C&D letter, just a threat. That tells me that either the Twins weren't convinced that it was a legally clear as it might appear, they weren't going to press the issue in court or didn't want the related publicity.

By not having the C&D, there is nothing that could have been taken to a legal team who might believe a challenge would be successful.

The Twins just wanted this to go away quietly. They got want they wanted. If it's really as black and white as some in this thread seem to think, we should all just wait for the memo to prohibit pictures of and around Target Field.

If DSP is indeed irritated when he thinks of this site, that is truly sad.

Too bad the Twins offseason hasn't been as interesting as this thread.

Maybe we can start a new discussion?

Anyone have any new information on TF staffing? Concessions? Team promotions? Fireworks dates and logistics? (e.g. where will the fireworks be shot from? Will certain sections be relocated to the field before the show?) Details on the new ticketing system / vendor? (new benefits, full integration with StubHub?)

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 8:14 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 372

Rick: I bet you would have had the attorneys lined up to take this case on PRO BONO had you so desired. This would have been a PR disaster for the Twins (win or lose in court). I sort of wish you had played Hardball with them on this issue. I think there is no way on God's green earth this would have been pushed to the courts. The Twins had way too much to lose (ticket sales, bad mojo, irritated tax payers feeling taken advantage of, etc.) and not enough to gain.

BTW: The Pohlads do love to try to flex their muscle with "legal" action. There is a case going on right now between BMW North America and Twin Cities BMW in Minnetonka owned by the Pohlads...

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 9:41 PM by Max Highlight this comment 373

Rick - I am a first time visitor to this website after seeing the "Calendargate" story last evening on the Ch 5 news. Thanks for these great photos. It is fun to follow the progress of this place being built. I also have to thank you for your other site with all those fantastic photos of Met Stadium. I am guessing Lowell Prescott is your father? I am about your age and grew up walking distance from the Met. My dad's company had season tix and I got to go often. Those pictures of the Met bring back many great memories.

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 10:10 PM by Joe W. Highlight this comment 374

I mean no disrespect, but despite all of the suggestions about what Rick 'could have' or 'should have' done, my suspicion is that most of us 'would have' done exactly the same thing he did. I know I would have.

There's no chance the Twins censorship could extend to the ticket trading service, is there? Wouldn't think an internet forum exchanging tickets already purchased from the Twins would pose a 'threat,' but I'm an ignorant non-attorney, and Rick seems to have been put on DSPs "naughty list."

Posted on December 19, 2009 at 11:34 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 375

Expectorate -

I suspect most would have done what Rick did. Personally, I would have waited to review the C&D letter and obtained a legal opinion from my attorney before making any agreement but that's me. Maybe I'm a bit cocky, because I beat a similar threat before, but certainly I don't think anyone here faults Rick's decision.

Could the Twins shutdown any ticket exchange program? Unless they are changing the licsense agreement this year, absolutely they can. I would hope they wouldn't be foolish enough to pursue that, but that one they would win (essentially by revoking the license from the season ticket holders involved). I'd have to go back and read the docs to see if that would also apply to the Legends Club seats (since a PSL is involved), but I suspect it would apply to those as well.

Any secondary market is difficult for the club and MLB to deal with, and restrictions got tighter (or at least better documented) when MLBAM entered into the agreement with StubHub a couple years ago. Every club understands that fans skirt the letter of the license (by forming a season ticket group, selling tickets on Craigslist, to brokers or on eBay or even donating them) all of which violate the ticket license under certain conditions.

I hope they leave Rick's trading club alone. But if they are in fact "irratated" by him, they may not, even though it would be the individual season ticket holders in violation (assuning Rick didn't run afoul of requirements for ticket brokers).

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 2:19 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 376

According to Rick there never was a C & D letter. He essentially caved when DSP suggested that an issue may exist. I guess I do not blame him either but I think the contents of a C & D letter might have made for interesting reading. I, perhaps in my ignorance, still think it was a bluff. What if such a letter had made it to the media? Is there any way the Twins would have come out looking like anything other than a bunch of petty jerks in that event? What would happen if Rick announced that he was going to go through with the project - with proceeds being donated to, say, local food banks or toys for tots - benefiting folks who most likely will be unable to afford a visit to the Twins' new palace? DSP is slick - but is he slick enough to handle one like that?

As to the ticket exchange --- if the Twins got excited about an item likely to do them zero harm, I would not hold out too much hope for the ticket deal. We, collectively, need to get one thing through our heads: The Twins do not care about "us", only about our $$$$$.

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 2:50 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 377

Someone send Luke a C&D letter please

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 4:06 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 378

Ben - if Rick couldn't use the images (and I'm not convinced I buy into that), it wouldn't matter if the proceeds went to a charity or not, though it would have make things interesting from a PR standpoint.

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 6:28 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 379

:P maz, there goes your Christmas present. :).
or how about a C&D letter to kev in az and maz for picking on me all the time? lol.

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 7:10 PM by luke Highlight this comment 380

" --- though it would have make (sic) things interesting from a PR standpoint."

My point exactly.

Where do you (or anyone) think Target would be on this deal? Do the Twins have a say in whether or not the name of the facility, the Target logo, etc. can be used?

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 7:32 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 381

So.....how's that wind veil coming along?

Posted on December 20, 2009 at 11:24 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 382

My name includes a link to a similar calendar controversy that a Ford Mustang fan group had with Ford. Of course, in that situation they were taking pictures of their own vehicles (where as Rick is taking pictures of a publicly financed facility). I bet if you did a little digging, you can find other similar situations and perhaps even a court case that ruled on this issue.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 12:10 AM by The Rational Actor Highlight this comment 383

"Do the Twins have a say in whether or not the name of the facility, the Target logo, etc. can be used?"

I would love to know the details on the actual contracts / rights of the parties involved.

We have:
- The Twins organization (ie. "The Minnesota Twins")
- The Minnesota Ball Authority (the entity that owns/operates Target Field, ie. the landlord)
- Target Corporation (primary naming rights partner)
- Twins Ballpark LLC (the ballpark tenant and licensor of the tickets issued to MLB ballgames at Target Field)
- Major League Baseball
- Major League Baseball Advanced Media and StubHub (Twins lead secondary market ticket partners)

And I'm sure the MLBPA is in there somewhere. Did I miss anyone?

In Rick's scenario, I doubt MLBPA is involved (no players in the pics) nor MLBAM nor StubHub. Don't think MLB has a say. All the others should.

Perhaps it would be cleared up if the MBA had returned the reporters' phone calls. Then again, perhaps that's why they didn't.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 12:45 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 384

To finish my thought - obviously the Target logo was involved here (as part of the Target Field logo).

Who owns the rights to the Target Field logo? Twins Ballpark LLC? The Twins? Target? I suspect it's Target (isn't that one of the things they "bought" with naming rights?)

How can the Twins tell someone they can't use a logo they don't own the rights to?

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 12:51 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 385

" --- ay, there's the rub --- "

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 01:28 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 386

Target owns the rights to the logo. According to the US trademark office. But im sure Target and the Twins have some type of agreement to help protect each others investments. But a question kind of remains when is a public place really public hmmm.
Word Mark TARGET FIELD
Goods and Services IC 043. US 100 101. G & S: Providing stadium facilities for the presentation of sports, entertainment, cultural and civic events
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 21.03.12 - Dart boards; Targets without crosshairs or alignment guides
Serial Number 77857397
Filing Date October 26, 2009
Current Filing Basis 1B
Original Filing Basis 1B
Owner (APPLICANT) Target Brands, Inc. CORPORATION MINNESOTA TPS-3165 1000 Nicollet Mall Minneapolis MINNESOTA 55403
Prior Registrations 0845193;0972082;2645450
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "FIELD" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Description of Mark The mark consists of concentric circles representing a target or bullseye design between the words TARGET and FIELD, all in horizontal placement.
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 04:13 AM by Leroy Highlight this comment 387

A cool new 1000 sq foot store is going in at Target Field down in the left field corner... It will be an "on-field" store, consisting of New Era caps and Majestic jerseys... Should be a nice addition to the main store and the 6 other smaller shops in Target Field.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 09:08 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 388

OG Jeff is this the all glass enclosed store that was talked about previously or is this somethine else?

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 09:22 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 389

I think that a good question was brought up about logos in the skyline and how are those protected. Take the saint paul Skyline. Growing up I've seen hundreds of calendars and posters showing the downtown skyline with 1st nat bank lit up in the sky. There is no way that anyone can say that 1st nat bank owns the skyline simply because they decided to use the space for advertising. THat is a ridiculous stance.

The Twins came to the public to ask for money to build a ballpark in which they decided to expose their logo to the public. In doing that I would say that they made the decision to expose their branding to the public.

Now I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay in a holiday inn but if the feature of the item (the calendar) is the ballpark itself (a public works project) but the logo happens to be included in the photos because of their decision to publicly display their logo then I don't see how Rick or anyone else for that matter could be at fault.

What really makes this interesting is that someone else said that the Twins could do this even if someone wasn't doing it for money but for any type of *gain*... That is a slippery slope that needs to be cleaned up because if that's the case then I guess the Twins should just not allow cameras at all in Target field.

Honestly I don't think there is any way the Twins could have won a case on this if they could have don't you think every paparazzi in the country would be shut down for selling pictures to enquirer and other tabloids? I mean that right there is selling and profiting off of someones image directly. The Twins decided to put their image in the skyline of Minneapolis. If they didn't want it photographed then they shouldn't have put it in public view. If they didn't want someone to make a calendar of their ballpark then they shouldn't have asked for public dollars. And even then I don't know that you could geta way with saying that you can't make a calendar featuring buildings in our skyline. That's pretty ridiculous.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 09:35 AM by moda253 Highlight this comment 390

This episode shows some mind-boggling stupidity on the part of Twins management. Why would they go out of their way to antagonize some of the team's biggest fans? This is what happens when you let lawyers make business decions for you. A businessman would have seen an opportunity here a long time ago. The obvious opportunity was, the Twins construction website had no blog. Well duh, move this blog over to the Twins website. Let Rick push some ticket deals once in a while.
Having missed that opportunity, the Twins could figure out some way to co-sponsor a construction calendar. Why fight this thing when you can make money on it? The Twins should have underwritted this blog a long time ago with ads. Words fail me when I think of the promotional opportunities that have been missed out on. Let the promotions department figure this out, not the lawyers.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 11:47 AM by Dave T Highlight this comment 391

Think of the number of logos you see blurred out in TV shows or in videos (if any channel still showed them). Those logos aren't even directly related to the product most of the time. Now the Twins logo is directly related to the calendar of the stadium and it's a trademarked logo owned by the Twins. Why exactly would they let that out there? Again, it's not so much what Rick would do with it, as the precedent it would set for others who want to do something similar. Business entities like the Twins need to be careful not to let the floodgates open. It's a slippery slope.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 11:52 AM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 392

Dave, I'm sure they're sad about the literally dozens of tickets sales they lost out on by not embracing this blog. I'm pretty sure the team is pretty capable of turning out their own calendar as well if they want.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 11:54 AM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 393

The team did give away a ballpark calendar on the closing weekend of the season. It's very nice.

Then they sent out a second version to some season ticket holders. I haven't seen it, but I heard it's pretty similar to the free promo one, but with some added content.

And though it may not have been in ticket sales, the Twins have indeed missed promotional opportunities along the way on the web. This site alone, over the past 3 1/2 years, has averaged at least 2000 unique visitors every day -- some days many more -- all of them among the core of Twins fans. Clearly, there are people out there very interested in the project, and not getting everything they want directly from the Twins or other sources.

If there's an audience, and you're not tapping into it, an opportunity of some sort has indeed been missed.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 12:15 PM by Rick 394

Buffalo - Do you not understand how many people visit this site? Dave's post reads like he's talking about the site as a whole, not just a calendar.

Not that Ballpark Magic is ESPN.com, but I think Dave's point is that synergy in marketing is a valuable tool that can drive profit. I get why the Twins tried to bully around Rick about calendars...BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MAKE THEIR OWN TO MAKE $$$. Had they teamed up a long time ago, they'd have been ahead of the game and also be driving more revenue back to their brand.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 12:29 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 395

A friend of mine hung up his Twins-issued ballpark calendar and it kept ripping through the nail because it was too bottom heavy when turned to "January". Dammit Twins, if you're going to monopolize the Twins calendar market, at least make a calendar that stays on the frickin' wall!

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 396

Rick,

Without connecting the dots for us, the dots are nonetheless in place for this community to get a calendar and you, your just rewards.

The Dots
------------
- Pics can be shared
- Snapfish, etc make calendars
- Donations can be made

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 2:25 PM by Jesse Highlight this comment 397

I was going to suggest you just use Calvin pissing on an outline of DSP's face as the pictures for your calendar. You could decorate Calvin and DSP differently for each corresponding month!

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 398

It is a slippery slope with a lot of gray area but sadly "gain" is "gain". What excatly "gain" constitutes is upto the laws written and their interpretation and the Twins lawyers interpreted the Calendar project as something for "gain". I have no doubts that if taken to court the Twins would have the upper hand and any outcome would be made in favor of the Twins, not because they are "big bullies" but because within that gray area the majority of the law is on their side.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 4:00 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 399

In the dome the Twins allowed fans to bring in their own food. Does anyone know if this will continue at TF. If the Twins want to continue to consider themselves "Family Friendly" I think they should.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 4:26 PM by Sec117 Highlight this comment 400

"In the dome the Twins allowed fans to bring in their own food. Does anyone know if this will continue at TF. If the Twins want to continue to consider themselves "Family Friendly" I think they should."

Not even the slightest glimmer of a chance. The Twins now control the food program. If they could figure out how to charge for the air people will be breathing (and I would not be surprised the hear that they are looking into it) they would be extracting a fee for that as well. Come to think of it - given the proximity of the garbage burner - maybe we will be seeing whiffs of "Fresh Twins Territory Air" being marketed.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 5:29 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 401

yea i have a fewof those calenders they gave away and they fall off all the time they suck like that.

i decided not to pay the 50 bucks this year for giveaway since i know they wont be giving away shit this year due to the new stadium.. maybe one cool inaugural TF thing thats it

Last year i got the mauer bronze statue, kaat bronze statue, puckett and hrbek legends of the dome bobbles , TF sunglasses and 2 stupid hats from dairy queen... i consder this a score.. i would assume as many of you spoke about already this year will be heavy on the DQ hats screw that

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 5:32 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 402

bahhh humbug Ben! tis the season.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 5:34 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 403

I'm pretty sure they'll still let you bring in food. Even the Yankees let fans do that, and we're nowhere near as evil as them.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 5:44 PM by Sean Highlight this comment 404

I am not sure about food, but I would think you will be allowed to bring in peanuts and that stuff as you can in most other ballparks.

As for drinks, I hope they allow you to carry in bottled water on those very hot and humid days. I know they allow bottled water carry-ins at other ballparks. Maybe they are required to let you carry in bottled water too due to legal reasons?

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 5:57 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 405

every stadium allows food. I doubt that will change.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 8:10 PM by TimInDuluth Highlight this comment 406

BTW, I used to be DuluthTim, but for some reason I can't use that name anymore. Anyone else have that problem?

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 8:11 PM by TimInDuluth Highlight this comment 407

Ditto on the food comments. NO WAY Twins will ban outside food.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 9:19 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 408

Are you guys nuts? Someone is going to let you bring food into a facility that sells food? Maybe special diet types will get a pass but please let me know when any of you is going to enter the stadium while munching on a dog - I want to watch.

I was at Yankee Stadium for a series a couple of years ago. One of the first things I noticed was big piles of various bottled products (water, ice tea, soda, etc.)outside the gates - the stuff was not being allowed to enter. I heard the gate guys explaining that the bottles could become "missiles" etc. One of the days was bat day (and not just the first 5,000 either - all kids). So it was "Leave the juice box on the pile kid - and here's your bat". Bizarre.

Posted on December 21, 2009 at 11:30 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 409

Click my name for the official Coors Field park regulations - more evidence for the allowance of food.

Sadly, I probably won't be able to tote the hip flask of single malt for the brisk days.

Stay thirsty my friends.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 12:49 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 410

we'll see what happens on opening day, Ben. But I would put money on it. Maybe no coolers, definitely no beverages, but they'll let you bring peanuts or a sandwich in. I've been to a lot of ballparks and I always bring my own peanuts. I've never had a problem with it. You just have to have the nuts to do it. get it? nuts?

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 12:51 AM by TimInDuluth Highlight this comment 411

expectorate,
I always stow the flask in my sock. they never check there ;)

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 12:52 AM by TimInDuluth Highlight this comment 412

In my experience with the Dome you were allowed to bring in Coke products because that was what the Dome sold, despite the fact that the Twins were sponsored by Pepsi. I feel that it will be a similar situation at TF but Pepsi only. Of course they take the caps from you but I would always stick the cap in my pocket and then put it back in once my ears popped.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 12:54 AM by MattW Highlight this comment 413

I've been bringing in peanuts for years. I always figured they didn't care because they really weren't losing a sale due to the fact that they had no control over concessions. I thought that would come to a screeching halt with the new park and control parameters. If they really do allow food I'm damn sure going to quit paying the better part of $5 for a stale dog and start bringing in corned beef on pumpernickel!
Sorry, this "news" really surprises me - most places don't allow that sort of thing.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 01:39 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 414

Ben was wrong.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 01:59 AM by Wanda Phillips Highlight this comment 415

"I always stow the flask in my sock. they never check there ;):

From the desk of DSP ---

1. Well, we managed to scare off that blogger with the calendar idea - didn't know it was going to be that easy.
2. We will henceforth have security prepared to check suspicious bulges in the socks of incoming fans for flasks of non-permitted substances.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 02:04 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 416

"Ben was wrong."

Remains to be seen.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 02:06 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 417

i am going to agree with wanda. ben, you are proven wrong about food being brought into ballparks.

i guess every website needs one negative-nancy.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 07:08 AM by annoyingcustomer Highlight this comment 418

Ben - I'm with Wanda - I've been to 25 current and former MLB ballparks, and I'd say that every one will let you go in with food. Heck, some will allow coolers to be brought in! Check the regulations of each MLB park (like those in Expectorate's link), and you'll find that food (usually it must be in a clear plastic bag to facilitate an easy search) is allowed in.

I do understnad your concern, however. I know a group of Yankee fans that were absolutly convinced that they wouldn't be allowed to bring food into NYS, as they used to buy either KFC or Subway before every game, and they did it every game again all 2009. I also know folks that bring Jimmy Johns into Wrigley every game...

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 08:02 AM by Goober Highlight this comment 419

As an example, I find it interesting how the ballpark regulations are different between, say, the Padrees:

The San Diego Padres allow guests to bring food into PETCO Park as long as the items are consumed in the general seating or designated picnic areas. Outside food cannot be brought into any restaurant, club lounge, or suite. Guests must also adhere to the following:

•All food items should be wrapped, bagged, or left inside a container to avoid spillage.

•Food that could be thrown as a projectile should be sliced or sectioned (i.e., oranges, apples and other fruits).

•Food containers must be soft-sided and small enough to fit under the guest's seat. Bottles, cans, thermoses, jugs and containers larger than 16 inches by 16 inches by 8 inches are prohibited.

•Sealed, bottled water under one-half liter (20 oz.) and soft-sided single juice or milk containers are the only outside beverages permitted into PETCO Park. Guests with disabilities may bring factory-sealed plastic or paper containers that contain liquids required for medical reasons into the ballpark.

And, say, the Yankees:

The following items are prohibited and may not be brought onto the premises:

* Bags larger than 16 x 16 x 8 inches, including backpacks, purses and small backpack purses

* Briefcases, large backpacks, large purses and bags, coolers and hard-sided bags and containers

* Glass, cans and unsealed plastic bottles

* Laser pens

* Video cameras

* Laptop computers

* Firearms or knives

* Beach balls, blow horns and all other distracting noisemakers

* Any other devices that may interfere with and/or distract any sports participant, other patron, audio or audio/visual telecast or recording of the game or any technology-related service provided in the Stadium

Note how the Yankees never mention that you can bring food in, just that if you read between the lines, food is not a prohibited item (and, again, I know folks that brought food this past season - so it is okay), while the Pads actually encourage you to bring in food with a picnic area and specific rules as to what food is okay and which isn't...

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 08:26 AM by Goober Highlight this comment 420

I wonder if it's a MLB / traditions of the game sort of thing that owners have to live with. Logically, it makes no sense - like bringing your own booze into a bar. I'm trying to picture Cal Griffith letting people into the Met carrying dogs in a sack and I just can't get there. Where else are you allowed to do so - Valeyfair, the Vikes? A huge issue with the new park was controlling, expanding, and improving revenue streams. The Twins get excited about the prospect of a guy peddling a handful of calendars but are willing to allow fans to bring in their own food?

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 08:39 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 421

I took a tour of Coors Field a few years back, and one of the things they touted was that you could bring food into their ballpark. I was shocked by this, and it seemed counterintuitive to me, so I asked why that was. The tour guide said something to the effect of "we're so confident that the food choices we offer here are good, that we know very few of our fans will bother to bring food from home; they'll want to come and eat the ballpark food." At the Metrodome, that idea didn't really make sense with the poor quality of the food there, but I would certainly hope that Target Field tour guides will be able to make the same statement in the future, and truly believe it. I'd be surprised if the Twins don't let outside food in, though they likely will not allow large coolers for security reasons like every other ballpark these days.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 08:58 AM by FPM2K Highlight this comment 422

As with any decision I make, I have to go with the side with the bigger dong. Sorry, Ben.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 09:29 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 423

I seem to remember a time when you weren't supposed to bring food into the Metrodome (though it wasn't exactly enforced because nobody got searched back in those quaint old days).

But I know that by the time the plaza went in, those rules (whatever they had been) got relaxed pretty substantially. That kettle corn place always made a big deal about how it was OK to bring their popcorn into the Dome.

And, other than giving up the caps to sodas that I bought on the plaza, nobody ever seemed to care that I was bringing cheese curds or a corn dog in. My wife always brought a sandwich in her purse because she's not really the hot dog type (though she sometimes gave in to the personal pan pizzas, then immediately regretted it because they were so terrible).

Without seeing explicit rules for Target Field, we can only make assumptions. But looking at the rules elsewhere is a good start. And there seems to be a theme:

1. No food or other item that might be thrown at someone
2. No bottles that might contain harmful substances
3. No outside food is allowed in the private restaurants/clubs

I can't imagine that anyone will care about my wife's sandwich or Ben's peanuts. They might care about Tim's flask, but they probably won't detect it if he's careful.

The last time I went to Wrigley, it was with a family friend who insisted that we stop at Nuts on Clark (a few blocks north of the ballpark) first. There he bought a few large bags of various kinds of nuts -- big enough to share. The ticket-takers didn't seem to care at all, and once we got inside, I understood why he did that. Everybody in the bleachers had brought in outside stuff and was sharing it all around (including all kinds of booze).

It's a little hard to imagine the Twins encouraging that, but it's equally hard to imagine a way to prevent all outside food. The smart rule will be the enforcable one, and I suspect it will follow pretty closely on what the other ballparks are currently doing.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 09:30 AM by Rick 424

I've seen pictures of people carrying cases of beer into County Stadium back in the day. Couldn't do that today, but it looked like good times (that was a fun stadium).

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 10:30 AM by strategery Highlight this comment 425

Strategery - Sconnies carry cases of beer wherever they're going, day or night, indoors or out.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 10:49 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 426

Well, I'm still surprised to learn all this. As far as TF policy, I guess we will just have to wait and see if one is published. My guess is that they will not be openly inviting fans to bring in outside items at least. And, getting stuff in is not the same as being officially allowed to do so.

On a related note --- if you have ever been hit in the back of the head by a peanut at the "Dome" --- it was probably my wife and you probably should have sat down quicker.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 10:52 AM by Ben Highlight this comment 427

Has Target Plaza opened yet?

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 11:19 AM by Michael Highlight this comment 428

I don't know what Miller Park's policy is regarding bringing in beer...but I know for a fact that there were 2 coolers of beer brought into the park in front of us this year.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 11:50 AM by Jim Highlight this comment 429

I was listening to a radio show, on 1500 I believe, from about 3 months ago and DSP was on discussing Target Field. There were a few callers that called in regarding the food issue. He stated that certain items would be allowed to be brought into the stadium. One lady also brought up bringing bottled water into the stadium being that we now have an outdoor ballpark and there will be sweltering hot days. He did say that they were looking at allowing people to bring in their own bottled water as long as it was sealed and the same brand of bottled water they would be selling at the park.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 11:55 AM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 430

Apologies if this has been discussed, but does anyone know if the powers-that-be will be offering tours (paid or unpaid)on a regular basis to fans once TF opens?

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 12:08 PM by joeybeaks Highlight this comment 431

I guess coals ARE carried to Newcastle.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 12:21 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 432

Ben, thank you for making me go look something up and, as a result, become wiser.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 12:49 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 433

when i was at the new busch this summer it was about 100 and humid, they let you go to the stands and ask for a "courtesy water" so u can stay hydraded...

you cant bring in liquid but i have brought in happy meals for my kids b4...

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 2:36 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 434

Trosy - Let's think for a moment about how stingy that sounds on the part of the Twins.

You said, and I quote "as long as it was sealed and the same brand of bottled water they would be selling at the park." And people are just supposed to know what brand they sell? That, to me makes it sound like, "if you bring in Dasani, and we sell Aquafina, away with the Dasani!" And you'll be forced to spend about $5 for a bottle sold within TF.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 3:27 PM by luke Highlight this comment 435

This sounds like what they did at the PGA Championship this summer where you could bring your water if it was sealed, and if it was Aquafina (their sponsor) there was no issue at all. You could bring other water too, but if it was a different brand, they just made you remove the label. Seemed silly, but fairly reasonable I guess.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 3:44 PM by B Highlight this comment 436

TTH ---

How about “This is the type of errant pedantry up with which I will not put.”

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 4:06 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 437

Wan't that was Ben Afflick immitating Keith Olbermann on SNL?

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 4:33 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 438

Don't think I have seen mention of this. Here's a blurb about Stadium Pizza opening as a new ballpark neighbor.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 4:39 PM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 439

The other food exception that is common in most of the parks I've been to is that you can't bring in food of ANY kind if you have a suite with a catering package.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 9:28 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 440

Not too many people are commenting about the new vikings Stadium drawings-but I would like to. That design with a small retractable hole in the west side of the roof to let in sunshine is a complete and total piece of crap. I would hope that if the Vikings do end up staying in the Twin cities area that we would at least end up with a stadium that resembles Reliant Stadium in Houston or the design the Vikings and Anoka county had developed. The Vikings would be out of their minds if they thought that stadium could be a winner!

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 9:29 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 441

Tom,

I heard that there are better drawings of the new Vikings design out there, but I have to agree that this round of drawings was so poor that it sort of drained away more enthusiasm than it created.

Add to that the waning of their abilities on the field and tight economic times, and you have a recipe for a whole lot of Nothing in the legislative session ahead.

It should be noted that the Twins' original drawings of what would become Target Field looked almost nothing like the finished product (beyond the template used for the main grandstand, of course).

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 10:05 PM by Rick 442

Luke, please don't quote me because I am going off memory, which sometimes isn't that good. Maybe I combined it with what B said, because I do remember that as I went to the PGA this year. I could be combining the two. I will try to find it on 1500 archives.

That being said, luke, if that is the case at TF it is not that big of deal. It will be posted at gates and on the website under stadium information. You need to think like a marketing manager of a corporation. Would you want other bottles of water being drank at a stadium that you spend millions of dollar at for advertising? No. Think about the big picture.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 10:12 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 443

...and I gotta believe that the "remove the label" thing is about TV cameras and other press. Can't be advertising the competition, you know!

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 10:19 PM by Rick 444

The Vikings new stadium could be shaped like a big turd and they would have to be satisfied at this point. Beggers can't be choosers.

Posted on December 22, 2009 at 10:57 PM by Jim Highlight this comment 445

I think that the new Vikings stadium needs to be out of downtown and next to MOA. They should complete phase 2 on the North side of the mall and put the new stadium on the East side. MOA already has light rail, it is close to major highways and the airport.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 07:08 AM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 446

With all due respect Rick if legislators are using on field performance as justification as to whether or not they whould commit 750 million dollars to a project then we have much bigger fish to fry my friend. If sports excellence is on the list of requirements to secure funding then the Twins wouldn't have a new home.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 08:41 AM by moda253 Highlight this comment 447

...Or the Gophers

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 08:55 AM by john c Highlight this comment 448

I hate to say it, but the only way the Vikings stadium makes sense (publicly supported, that is) is to build the retractable roof. For me, public money in the Twins stadium made sense because you are getting a minimum of 81 events a year and 2M people. I would argue that never happened at the Dome because of all the land tied up by the Star Tribune that never got developed (up until light rail the Guthrie it was just a sea of parking lots), and that ballparks enhance but don't in of themselves create business.

Eight home games a year isn't enough to justify public investment for the Vikes. However, if you have a roof you can get to 80 events/2M people. If it is on the dome site, then you need a development plan to go with the site, which is what Ziggy has proposed on occasion. I think it is a tougher go because your mix of events includes the Prep Bowl, conventions, Final 4, monster trucks, and so on, but I guess I'd rather spend $700M for something like that than $400M for something that is used 8 times a year.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 08:57 AM by Linc Highlight this comment 449

moda,

I didn't say it was the right way to make decisions, but legislators are people (allegedly), and people are often affected by things that shouldn't really affect them. Do you think that having Brett Favre in purple could hurt the Vikes' chances at the Capitol?

Actually, a couple of years ago I wrote an article arguing that without the 2001 Twins exciting brand of play, there would be no Target Field -- and maybe no Twins.

I stick by that.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 10:27 AM by Rick 450

merry christmas, everyone. I think 2001 was indeed a turning point.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 10:57 AM by robin Highlight this comment 451

Has Target Plaza opened yet? If it hasn't, when does it?

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 11:44 AM by Michael Highlight this comment 452

Michael-

It doesn't look like they're going to open the plaza until spring. They haven't cleared off any snow yet, and I doubt they'll clear it off after this impending doomsday storm.

I could be wrong, though.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 11:59 AM by Chad Highlight this comment 453

regarding the Twins TF calendar - I gripped the top with one of those black clips and hung the clip from the wall so mine did not rip. :) I also folded a post-it note around the top of the calendar over the hole so the clip wouldn't mar the surface. ok, that part is a tad anal retentive.

as far is bringing food/drink into the park, at the dome, I put those cute little 12 oz bottles of Diet Pepsi in each of my front pockets on my Levis before going in the gate. I also could stash one in a back zippered compartment of my bag that they'd never notice/search. Sounds like I'm in luck with the switch to Pepsi but to save money I"ll probably always smuggle it in.

I'll probably be excited about the food for a few series' then I'll go back to eating before I show up and bringing sunflower seeds.

on another note - I wonder what the Twins can do for you if you end up not liking your seats/vantage point. It's the release of the screen shots of The Show 2010 that made me think - holy crap - my sightline of the batter might be frequently compromised by the 1st base ump and/or coach plus a baserunner from my seat. that would suck.

That made me also wonder what they do with the open seats that became available when people didn't setup a payment plan or pay for their tickets in time. In this economy, I can imagine there could be some dreamers that in the end couldn't pull it out when it came time to pay. Someone right NOW might have a chance at better seats than I did with my mid-June selection. Is this possible?

anywho, i suppose i should be doing work! :)

Jacquie

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 12:20 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 454

I see the Twins are offering "Free Tours of Target Field" as part of being a member of the 2010 Twins Territory Team.

Of course, there is a disclaimer that says terms and conditions may apply.

I wonder if season ticket holders will get free tours of Target Field at any point in 2010? Specifically, before the home opener on April 12. I am thinking there will be some dates available in March exclusively for STH's, but who knows at this point.

All in all, the $19.99 for the TTT membership is not a bad deal considering you get MLB radio subscription and can hear the games online if you are working and don't have access to TV.

Also, today officially marks the end of the HHH Metrodome era in Twins baseball as the club moves to Target Field.

Merry Christmas everyone and safe travels!

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 12:54 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 455

Finally - the Twins move to the new digs. Merry Christmas indeed.
Merry Christmas to everyone here.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 2:05 PM by luke Highlight this comment 456

Winning helps get new stadiums built because people realize what they would be missing if the team left. Nobody would miss a losing team. If the wolves wanted a new arena right now they would have no chance.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 457

Just went over to the skyway during lunch. The wind veil is probably 75% done. Probably almost 4 complete sections, and 4 more in various stages of finishing. Nothing else to really report. The lack of new photos/blog updates from the Twins themselves is getting ridiculous. They should be posting photos weekly, as far as I'm concerned.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 3:20 PM by DVS2008 Highlight this comment 458

Jacquie said:
"That made me also wonder what they do with the open seats that became available when people didn't setup a payment plan or pay for their tickets in time. In this economy, I can imagine there could be some dreamers that in the end couldn't pull it out when it came time to pay. Someone right NOW might have a chance at better seats than I did with my mid-June selection. Is this possible?"

It's not supposed to be possible. According to what I was told, the Twins are using the selected but not paid for seats first to satisfy any upgrade demand from existing STHs (e.g. move to better seats and/or add more) working from requests made during the relocation process last spring. The "defaults" weren't expected to be many at all and as of mid-last week when they had an initial idea, it seemed to be tracking to expectations, especially in the Home Plate Box area (where my interest was).

I suspect the Twins would have some upset STHs if a new STH could come in and get better seats now than during the relocation, so I suspect any remaining "defaulted" seats will be kept as single game inventory and then the normal upgrade process would take place starting with 2011.

Regarding STH and free tours? - I've been told multiple times by execs that there will be STH only tours prior to Opening Day. Never asked about cost, as I assumed they would be free. But I'll second the comment on the TTT MLB offer - good deal for $19.95 and you get a tour anyway. I signed up this morning.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 3:40 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 459

If anyone's interested, Twins posted a "moving gallery", click my name.

Refresh my memory, what is the new address for TF? I know the admin building is like 343 Fifth Street - but I thought there was a "Twins Way" one too, and I can't remember where that was posted on here...

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 3:51 PM by luke Highlight this comment 460

Anyone know what will occupy the former Twins' offices at what is now known as Mall of America Field at Hubert H Humphrey Metrodome?

Is the MSFC going to take over this now vacant space? I know they already have offices on the south side of the stadium.

Will the Vikings take over and turn them into pre-game VIP and luxury areas to increase revenue streams? Something such as the Loffler Lounge?

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 4:30 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 461

I could be wrong but isnt there some type of law barring another stadium or arena from being built on the old met site.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 5:00 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 462

The city of Bloomington has actively discouraged it, to the point of saying they would oppose such a project if it were ever proposed.

They have their own long-term plans for that land.

(Long-time readers will know that the old Met Center site was my first choice for the Twins back in the days we were discussing such things.)

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM by Rick 463

Rick -

spoke with a member of the legislature this week about Vikings stadium for about 15 minutes - the take aways:

Ann Lenczewski (the rep from bloomington) is a big NO on the MOA idea. so it's dead at the cap.

there is far more juice for state funding for an open air facility (saving the state 250 million) - outstate legislators are pissed.

the gop caucus is nearly unanimous in their opposition - the dfl is divided between the left liberals and the labor/moderate liberals.

the odds of it getting done this session are VERY long - with a 1.2 billion dollar deficit - and an indifferent governor who won't shepherd it through... we're waiting til next session it seems, and a new governor. (however dfl guv candidates want to get after it to prove their leadership - well a few of them)

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 5:59 PM by CJ Highlight this comment 464

why not build the vikings stadium with a permanent roof, it'd be cheaper than a retractable roof, and for Vikings games, it would likely be closed much of the time anyhow

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 6:10 PM by deenels Highlight this comment 465

cj wrote: "there is far more juice for state funding for an open air facility (saving the state 250 million) - outstate legislators are pissed."

--nice! i wouldn't mind either way if we end up with a football exclusive stadium. fine by me.

cj wrote: "the gop caucus is nearly unanimous in their opposition"

--well, what else is new with the gop? the party of "no". "no" ideas. "no" leadership. "no" vision. "no" balls.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 6:54 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 466

New address info, from DSP's blog:

"1 Twins Way
Minneapolis, MN 55403

Twins Way, which replaces a small portion of 3rd Avenue North adjacent Target Field, will serve as the primary entrance for all ballpark deliveries, game day employees, players and staff. This change requires City Council approval and is scheduled to officially go into effect in mid-January.

Meanwhile, fans visiting the Twins ticket office or the team's administrative offices will want to keep two additional physical addresses in mind. The Twins Ticket Office and Ticket Sales and Service staff will be located at 290 7th Street North while the Twins Executive Office entrance can be found at 353 5th Street North."

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 7:52 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 467

..... a generic placeholder for 7 Joe Mauer Lane!

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 8:04 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 468

thanks jfh.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 9:20 PM by luke Highlight this comment 469

I jsut wanted to say Marry Christmas, and happy new year! Drive safe in his snow! Meanwhile i will be going to India to visit family! Hopefully i will be able to read the blog every so often, but we'll see!

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 10:11 PM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 470

I hadn't seen this picture linked to before....

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 10:55 PM by TwinsTerritory Highlight this comment 471

Where in India Sooj?

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 11:12 PM by luke Highlight this comment 472

Did you take that picture TwinsTerrritory? It's been my background for a couple weeks now... If you did, nice work.

It's nearly Christmas so I'll be expecting a Mauer extension in the next couple days as promised.

Posted on December 23, 2009 at 11:34 PM by ManBearPig Highlight this comment 473

First my parents' hometown of hydrabad in south central India and then up to the coastal state of Kerala for new years and such. The day i come back will be tough, land at 10:35am, work at 2! yay

anyway, if i do not get to check everything often, heres to billy smith making some noise-although not likely!

Posted on December 24, 2009 at 12:16 AM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 474

I love that pictue TT. Is anyone else looking at that surprised by how much foul territory it looks like there is in that pic? Maybe once all the lines and such get painted in it won't look as big. I don't care...it is just interesting given the small footprint.

Posted on December 24, 2009 at 12:38 AM by Linc Highlight this comment 475

That is a good picture, and will replace my current desktop wallpaper.
Merry Christmas and safe travels everybody. It is not looking nice out there. Makes me wish for spring training all the more. But, I'll still enjoy the holiday.

Posted on December 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM by luke Highlight this comment 476

"im going to LA in feb and want to tour Dodger stadium what should I look for?"

Maz, sorry I didn't answer your question sooner. I've been traveling and finally had a chance to catch up here.

I've heard the Dodger Stadium tours are pretty cool. Send me a PM on Baseball Fever and I'll send some ideas for your trip.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Posted on December 24, 2009 at 12:07 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 477

Happy Holidays Sports fans!

Posted on December 25, 2009 at 6:47 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 478

Forgive me if this was already discussed, but it looks like the Twins and USBank are teaming up to provide a cashless payment system for some areas of the park. Click on the link for the full story.

"Together, the Twins and U.S. Bank plan to launch the system using radio-frequency-identification (RFID) technology on a limited basis starting Opening Day. They will distribute key fobs containing a computer chip with $10 in credit to fans sitting in the home run porch and select season-ticket holders and VIPs.

Those patrons will tap the key fob on a reader to pay for food and retail items at stands exclusively set up for the technology in the U.S. Bank-branded space."

Posted on December 26, 2009 at 12:12 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 479

hey all, the sooj reporting live from india! How is everyone?!

Posted on December 26, 2009 at 08:12 AM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 480

Well, it pretty much hasn't stopped snowing since you left. It's whiter than the bingo hall at Mystic Lake.

Posted on December 26, 2009 at 09:35 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 481

That picture was actually posted on the team's Facebook page. I just saw it this week and didn't know if it had been linked here before. Linked is the one that went with it.

Posted on December 26, 2009 at 12:52 PM by TwinsTerritory Highlight this comment 482

I'm just sitting around bored so I thought I would check out what target field looked like a year ago. It's just crazy to see how much work has been done in the one year since Dec 26, 2008. I just can't believe how much hard work had to have gone into it since then. Props go out to all those construction workers. Damn nice work they did!!

Posted on December 26, 2009 at 2:19 PM by Nikc Highlight this comment 483

Absolutely amazing what you can get done with a few hundred million dollars!

Posted on December 26, 2009 at 2:39 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 484

Watched a good chunk of Ken Burns' "Baseball" documentary on MLB Network last night for the first time. If you haven't seen it, catch it before the season starts. We can get excited about the bells and whistles of Target Field, but their glitter will soon fade. Appreciating baseball for what it is, the long journey it has taken and its influence not just on sport but on American life is overwhelming in itself. We are damn fortunate to have part of that tapestry here in Minneapolis.

I hate dem Yanks, but after watching that can't help but love Casey Stengel.

Posted on December 26, 2009 at 2:47 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 485

tth, wasn't Casey a poet? lol I love those clips of him.

Posted on December 26, 2009 at 9:14 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 486

Rick,

I think someone hijacked TTH's name... he has been making more and more sense of late...please look into it!

Posted on December 27, 2009 at 1:40 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 487

Hope everyone had a great Christmas, and recovered from shovelling piles of snow (except perhaps for Sooj and Kev in AZ)...

TwinsFest is just about a month away, that will get us out of the winter blues.

Posted on December 27, 2009 at 6:12 PM by luke Highlight this comment 488

snow? did someone say snow? no snow here. just got home from holiday weekend in manhattan beach...wonderful christmas dinner in chinatown with all the other hungry jews of los angeles...thankfully chinatown stays open!!

hope everyone had a nice christmas, kwanza, festivus, or whatever you celebrate.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 03:19 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 489

Don't think I had heard this nugget from Sid's column today:

Weather permitting, the Gophers baseball team will play the first game at Target Field against Louisiana Tech on March 27.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 08:20 AM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 490

Mazaratirick,

Maybe you're just starting to embrace the truth!? :)

BTW - I'm on the brink of winning my fantasy football league. Need some points from A.P., Sidney and Percy tonight...Childress, stay out of Favre's way!!

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 10:15 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 491

Personally I think The Truth Hurts is a breath of fresh air. He doesn't drink the Kool-Aid and I've always thought his posts were spot on. Some of the "homers and yahoos" (I'm looking at your Luke)who frequent Rick's blog need to be called to the carpet when they say ridiculous things (ie: Oh Joe Mauer would never leave MN and he'll sign with the Pohlads for 16 million a year)...

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 10:48 AM by Max Highlight this comment 492

Buster Olney just wrote a blog entry about Target Field. The opening sentence doesn't surprise me, but I am interested in what he has to say. Does someone have ESPN insider that would be kind enough to recap his main points on here?

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:01 AM by Oaks Highlight this comment 493

Does anybody have an ESPN.com Insider subscription? Buster Olney wrote a column on his eagerness to see baseball played at Target Field. (Not that you'd know that from his intro...)

"Let's dispense with the obvious, so we can move on: There are going to be baseball games in the Twins' new outdoor ballpark that will be played in abominable conditions. As in, conditions best suited for an abominable snowman."

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:02 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 494

Holy crap, Oaks.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:03 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 495

Let's dispense with the obvious, so we can move on: There are going to be baseball games in the Twins' new outdoor ballpark that will be played in abominable conditions. As in, conditions best suited for an abominable snowman.

The players will be dressed like Mount Everest climbers, with everything but their eyes covered. Fans will carry large blankets and sink underneath them like buffalo in snow drifts. Under the blankets, they will talk about watching games in similar conditions in the old Metropolitan Stadium -- Vikings games, actually, when Bud Grant stoically walked the sidelines and breathed clouds.

But yes, baseball will be played in Minnesota -- outdoors, for the first time since 1981. And for most of the year, it should be glorious.

These pictures of the Twins' new ballpark were apparently posted about six weeks ago, but I saw them for the first time this morning. Courtesy of the St. Paul Pioneer Press, here's a panoramic shot of Target Field from behind home plate, from right field and from left field.

Can't wait; as I mentioned the other day, I can't remember looking forward to seeing a new park this much since the day Camden Yards opened. And I'd bet I'm not alone in that sentiment.

That is all.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:11 AM by DVS2008 Highlight this comment 496

I like Olney. It's too bad he started out with the cold weather bit, but I am glad to hear someone of his stature in the baseball media world is that excited about TF.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:41 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 497

can we please put a ban on the use of the term " kool-aid" its getting pretty played out like "ah-ha" moments"

yes luke im ready for twinsfest, wonder when the twins will send my tickets.. cheap asses prob wont....

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:45 AM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 498

i like steve phillips, he was banging some intern!!! thats cool......aid...

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:46 AM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 499

I second Max's opinion that TTH is a breath of fresh air...KEEP IT UP TTH!!

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:54 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 500

In the words of the man who said it best: "I'm not a role model... Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids."

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 12:05 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 501

New LaVelle blog has some stuff in it I never heard. The Town Ball Tavern thing sounds awesome. Where do you think the old Lakers floor had been before?

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 12:23 PM by DVS2008 Highlight this comment 502

I think anyone who presumes he knows "The Truth" and when it "Hurts" is pretentious as hell. I don't know what's worse, knee-jerk kool-aid drinking rubes or knee-jerk cynics. I find both extremely tiresome.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 12:41 PM by some guy Highlight this comment 503

If we are going to ban terms/phrases/words/etc. let's also consider "can't wait", "sweet", and "awesome" --- by the time the car dealers/salesmen get around to using the lingo it is tired "for sure".

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 12:47 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 504

Let's just ban all adjectives, since invariably someone will be offended/pissed off by one they don't like.

That would be sweet.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 1:12 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 505

If you look on the webcam 1, those seats in the Champion's Club and Dugout Box - they sure do take on the snow dont they, as opposed to the other seats in the park. Unless they're covered with some white cloth to protect the upholstery...

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 1:27 PM by luke Highlight this comment 506

Luke, I did some investigating and found this:

(Oct. 13, 2009) MINNEAPOLIS -- The Minnesota Twins announced Monday they have contracted with Linen Company, Inc., a wholesale linen distributor, to create commemorative 2010 Target Field seat covers in anticipation of the inaugural season of outdoor baseball.

The Richmond, Va., company specializes in hotel and restaurant linens, including conference cloths, banquet table skirting, stage skirting, table runners, chair covers, tray jack covers, trash can covers, valances and wedding lace.

According to Twins President Dave St. Peter, the stadium seat coverings will serve a dual purpose. "These wonderfully crafted covers will keep the harsh winter elements from our new seats, especially those with wooden backs that are especially susceptible to winter conditions. Additionally, once the season begins, the covers will be auctioned off for charity."

Each cover will bear an embroidered emblem of the inaugural season Target Field logo and should fit over any standard sized chair.

For more information, contact the Linen Company at 1-866-995-4636 or the Minnesota Twins at 612-375-1366.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 2:10 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 507

The old Laker floor and new Twins ballpark? Fitting, considering they are the only two franchises to win anything in this town...sans Gopher football (YEARS ago) and Gopher Hockey (starting to feel like YEARS ago).

Any word on where in the ballpark this will be located? It would be nice to have one signature place in the outfield.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 2:35 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 508

The old Lakers floor has been part of the plan since day one. Here's an article from earlier this year which links to a feature about the company doing the restoration. Just scroll down to "Nice, New, Old Floor."

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 2:40 PM by Rick 509

Rick, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Town Ball Tavern also the same place where they have that cool tin roof with all the various Twins logos through the years stamped into the ceiling tiles. I remember some photos you posted (or maybe it was in one of the galleries on the Twins site) of the ceiling a while back.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 2:52 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 510

The cool tin roof is in Hrbek's. The Townball Tavern is the area behind the balcony which is visible above the LRT station near the Northstar circulation building (northwest corner of the building). (The balcony is part of the restaurant.)

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 2:59 PM by Rick 511

Oops: It's "Town Ball Tavern" not "Townball Tavern".

Details are everything...

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 3:00 PM by Rick 512

Right, sorry, got by bars mixed up. But that does get me thinking that its going to be a blast doing a pub crawl through Target Field. Can't wait, should be awesome AND sweet!

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 3:06 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 513

Looks like Mark DeRosa will soon sign with the SF Giants. Beltre doesn't seem like an option, so it's either trade for Kouzmanoff or bring back Crede.

I'd like to see the team just put Punto at third and go get Orlando Hudson or Felipe Lopez.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 3:22 PM by TwinsTerritory Highlight this comment 514

From Charley Walters. Click my name for the link.

"Kent Hrbek has been heavily involved in designing the pub named after him that will be directly behind home plate at the Twins' Target Field. Among memorabilia displayed will be the No. 26 jersey Hrbek wore when he was promoted to the major leagues and before he switched to the No. 14 jersey the Twins retired."

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 3:25 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 515

Thanks TTH. Good to know.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 3:41 PM by luke Highlight this comment 516

" --- should be awesome AND sweet!"

Not to mention cool and groovy.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 3:44 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 517

TTH can be insightful at times, but it is his constant attempts at lazy, sophmoric d-bag dan barreiro type KFAN schtick that annoys most.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 3:53 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 518

excuse me.........

that would be: sophOmoric

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 3:55 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 519

Anyone know what restaurant is going in on the corner of 2nd and 5th? The photo of it is shown in the previous story that Rick linked above. I suppose I could always go walk down there and look. Place with a roof top deck that close to the stadium sounds pretty cool though.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 4:43 PM by DVS2008 Highlight this comment 520

DVS-

Not entirely sure what they're putting in on 2nd and 5th St, but it hasn't been making much progess. Still has the same dirt floors it had when I moved down that way in August. The rooftop is nice and big, but you're staring at nothing but parking garage and skyway. Weee!

Epic is also putting an alleyway bar on the right side of their building, like(but not as big as) the one at Champp's. At least I think it's for Epic, though they haven't put a door into the building yet, nor did I notice where they actually could do that.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 4:56 PM by Chad Highlight this comment 521

New photo gallery on Twins website. Jerry Bell and Laura Day sure have some nice views from their offices at Target Field.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 8:42 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 522

I think I found a more detailed explanation of my earlier question.
Based on the new Twins gallery (which is a great gallery) Mike posted, if you look at the second-to-last photo with Jerry Bell, you can see there is a green tarp covering the Dugout and Champions Club seats...so, what I saw, it's a combination of both, a tarp and snow sitting on top.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 9:04 PM by luke Highlight this comment 523

Looks like the Gophers are playing the first game at Target Field - March 27th at 1pm - anyone know how tickets will be sold/distributed? I know U students get admitted free, but don't know how seating works.

Legends Club seat holders are supposed to be able to purchase their seats for non-Twins events, but I don't know if that applies for something like this.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 10:05 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 524

Frustrating loss to the Bears. This doesn't bode well.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:13 PM by luke Highlight this comment 525

luke - has nothing to do with the vikings players. childress just needs to let the vikings offense play their game. we saw that once again in the second half when favre said "fuck it" in regards to childress and daryl bevell's piece of shit game plan. not worried about the playoffs in the least as long as favre takes control of the offensive game plan at the line of scrimmage.

peterson needs to learn to just go down with control of the ball when he already has the first down locked up. special teams was the other main culprit tonight. piss poor kick coverage.

Posted on December 28, 2009 at 11:57 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 526

Beta's right about the Vikes, IMHO, but how does he know I annoy most people on this site? Was there some poll, Beta?? I'd like to think I add something to this board, like Kev's posts add cantankerosity (don't ban this made-up word!) and luke's posts add eye-rolling, and your posts add.... umm...

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 07:51 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 527

TTH - i would say that most of my posts add a degree of levity and “balance”. i am not on one end of the spectrum or the other end. said another way, i am not trying hard to be a special little character on rick's board unlike some here. btw - i am not looking at just you when i say that.

as far as whether or not you annoy most on this board......take a good look in the mirror and see if you can keep a straight face while saying that you don't aim to do just that.

don't get me wrong, as i actually like you on this board most of the time. but what you probably like to call "objectivity" most would call "strategiclly planned annoyance/digs". this is exactly the bit that d-bag dan barreiro (along with his piece of crap little ioweee hogeye grad side kick justin gaard) uses every day on kfan. i am just saying it gets old and stale after a while to most.

cheers.....

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 1:49 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 528

Click my name for a link to Blyleven making his own case on why he should be in the hall.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 2:41 PM by JinCR Highlight this comment 529

Heck, Bert should have been in years ago.

I certainly hope the writers read his article. I think the 300 wins thing is way overblown.

Wouldn't it be nice to have an HOF day for him at Target Field this year?

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 2:55 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 530

I like Bert, and agree he should be in the HOF, but I have to wonder if this annual campaign by him has been counterproductive. It seems self serving and really is unprecedented as far as I know. Anyone that is in the HOF is there because the voters think they should be, not because they ran a successful campaign.

Why is this so important to Bert? Is his self esteem that low? It sure doesn't seem like it when he's on air.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 3:24 PM by JCTwins Highlight this comment 531

If it is any consolation to Bert, most of the Chicago Tribune writers appear to be voting for him (along with Andre Dawson and Roberto Alomar). Maybe that will be a harbinger of good things to come for Bert. Click my name for a link to the page showing the ballots for their writers.

Oh, another thing, my brother-in-law ordered my wife and I tickets to the April 17 game at TF as a Christmas gift. Skyline View seats. I don't recall the section but I know we will be in the first row.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 3:29 PM by Dan Highlight this comment 532

TTH - I enjoy most of your posts as well. But what I enjoy your toned muscles and the faint smell of musk every time you log onto this site. As a "balanced" contributor (and occasional ballpark trespasser) I long for your acceptance and pine for your refined sense of humor.

That is all.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 4:05 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 533

Beta,

just reminding you the badgers' bowl game is tonight against miami at 7 on espn

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 4:21 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 534

Some levity doesn't translate well into the printed word. You can desribe someone slipping on a banana peel, but it's only funny when you see it. What might appear in one's mind as levity often comes across as Wisconsin or Iowa bashing childishness, and mean-spirited digs at the "D-bags" that seem to torment the poster's mind.
As far as the Vikings are concerned, their goose is cooked. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it here for those who haven't yet learned or accepted the truth: The Vikings are the Cubs of football. They have enought talent to get just so far, and then they will always find a way to shoot themselves in the foot. The only chance the Vikes have of getting to the Super Bowl is if they can find enough available tickets.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 6:05 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 535

Maybe I should go through the TTH School of Posting - not sure if too many like MY posts around here...

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 8:10 PM by luke Highlight this comment 536

JCTwins: The reason is simple...Money. Bert wants into Cooperstown because it means hundreds of thousands of dollars in income over the rest of his life (signings, speaking engagements, sponsors, marketability). Once you can say you are a HOFer, you demand the big bucks....

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 8:41 PM by Max Highlight this comment 537

One more question, what is the record for the most number of comments from all of us in one post? The one I'm leaving right now is 538...

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 8:45 PM by luke Highlight this comment 538

I like when you wax poetic, Luke. :D

About the Gopher game - I don't want any other ass in my seat. That isn't to say I am an ass... I mean, I want my big ass to be the first and only ass in my seat. I am feeling very protective and selfish about my seat. So how can I get these tickets dammit.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 8:49 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 539

The Chicago Tribune link is very interesting. Lots of love for Bert. I'm a big proponent of Andre Dawson as well. Grew up an Expos fan (don't ask shy) and he was a phenomenal all-around talent. And maybe the best outfield arm I have seen. Like Tony O, his career was unfortunately short due to knee injuries.

Nice to see some (though not loads) of support for Barry Larkin. He was as good as any shortstop I have seen in my lifetime. I lived in Cincinnati for five years in his prime, and every single game I went to (probably 15-20 a year) Larkin made a phenomenal fielding play. Also hit for average, power, and could run. Probably a long shot, but I think he absolutely deserves inclusion in the HoF.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 8:56 PM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 540

Oh, if only there was a Ballpark Magic HoF.... I've got two words for you: levity and "balance."

lev⋅i⋅ty  [lev-i-tee]
–noun, plural -ties.
1. lightness of mind, character, or behavior; lack of appropriate seriousness or earnestness.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 9:36 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 541

It looks like there is going to be an "online general public lottery" for home opener tickets...

From Charley Walters column today:

The Twins figure, had they the room, they could sell at least 300,000 tickets for their 2010 regular-season home opener against the Boston Red Sox at 3:10 p.m. April 12 at the new outdoors Target Field. The ballpark, though, will hold just 40,000 spectators.

"For us, it's the equivalent of a Super Bowl," Twins president Dave St. Peter said. "For a Minnesota sports fan, that clearly will be one of the hottest tickets in the history of the state, and that's how we're treating it."

Look for an announcement that the Twins will conduct an online general public lottery for single-game seats for Opening Day.

Meanwhile, the Twins' move from the Metrodome to Target Field is 99-percent complete, and they expect to receive an official certificate of occupancy any day. Business operations at the new site will begin Jan. 4.

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 9:43 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 542

Thanks Jax :) .

BTW - you must have some killer season tickets to be that protective of the seats with which you are entitled, huh?

Posted on December 29, 2009 at 10:13 PM by luke Highlight this comment 543

Jax - I'm not as worked up about others possibly being in my seats for the Gophers game at TF, but the Legend's Club agreement calls for
"The right to purchase tickets in the Ballpark to other baseball-related events, including playoff games, World Series games and All-Star games" so I would suspect that any LC member could push the issue and get their seats for the Gopher baseball game. There is a clause for non-baseball events that has some restrictions, but there are none for "baseball-related events" (and no requirement that the baseball events be MLB sanctioned.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 01:47 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 544

Wow i had a lot to read since sat. Looks like nothign new with trades, im glad i dont have to deal with snow for now! Too mcuh to cover in this one posting, plus the comp im on is super slow! bye all

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 02:40 AM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 545

Okay, not sure if I should be annoyed or not after reading that "general public lottery" for home opener tickets. I bought a 20 game ST package and have asked, multiple times (including my own rep), to be put on a list or something.

I bought season tickets during this season, a few weeks before the season ended and was told I'd have priority in the new ballpark because I made the deadline (if that matters). There was nothing on my invoice when I paid for it. I know some mentioned here that it would be on the invoice, though some also said they found that it wasn't on there's either. I was told that I could not get tickets to the home opener or even be put on a list because there won't even be tickets for the general public. I assumed, though questioned it..especially now, that it was correct if multiple reps were saying it. Though I have a hard time trusting Charley Walters, I now assume he is correct about this "general public lottery."

My next assumption is to believe that season ticket holders would get first shot at these, no matter how many games they chose for their package. I'd sit anywhere, I don't have to be in the seats I chose because I know that wouldn't be possible. Anyway, anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do or who I should talk to (know someone who will put me on a list if there is one?). If there is a list, I could have been on it months ago and now I probably really don't have a shot at it and that kind of ticks me off.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 07:06 AM by AJ Highlight this comment 546

Any sort of lottery for remaining Opening Day tickets is standard practice when opening up a new facility. The Yankees and Mets both did it in 2009. There really should be no bitching and moaning. Either you buy season tickets (thereby guaranteeing your seats for 81 days a year) or you take your chances in the lottery/on the secondary market.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 10:45 AM by Max Highlight this comment 547

Sorry to say it AJ, but I think your only shot is to join the general public for the lottery. When I made my selection, my rep really stressed that the only way to guarantee opening day tickets was to select the full season package. Up until that point I was on the fence if I went the 40 game route or the full, but that was the deciding factor for me.

If you take a look at stubhub, you can really see what has happened. I would say a large number of season ticket holders not only bought the tickets that they will be sitting in, but also purchased a full season in the cheap seats ($10 and $12 per game sections) to resell for a profit. For virtually every game next season there are already 600 to 700 tickets available, with a majority of those being in those sections. Again, this is just my observation, I maybe interpreting this all wrong, but it appears that a lot of people simply bought seats to resell. The only way to even make seats available to the general public is to go the lottery route.

If they were to make opening day tickets available to existing season ticket holders, they would all be gone and no one would have a chance at getting them. At least this way they forced everyone to purchase the complete season package, only time will tell if it was worth their time, effort and money. There are already select games where people are trying to unload tickets at below face value. Granted these are upperdeck against KC and other less desirable teams, but you see what has happened.

It would be a PR nightmare for the twins to not have any opening day tickets available for the general public. Can you see the headlines, "publicly funded stadium accessible only to season ticket holders and scalpers"?

Too bad there isn't a way to reward the true Twins fans (with tickets), and somehow exclude those in it just to make a buck.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 11:33 AM by minn55441 Highlight this comment 548

What is wrong with attempting to make a profit off of baseball? The Pohlands do it, why shouldn't fans have the same opportunity?

I say if you have the money to purchase an extra set of season tickets and then hope to make some money off of them by selling them to other fans who are willing to pay your price, then so be it. You also risk losing money. (See the KC example above.)

Don't get mad that your Opening Day options are limited because you bought a plan that told you up-front that you wouldn't be eligible for an Opening Day ticket. It's not the fault of full season ticket holders -- it's your own.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 11:59 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 549

Just think of all of those HR's Baker will give up that you could miss by not being there opening day!!

Oh, the humanity!

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 12:31 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 550

But, seriously, I wish I could be there :(

Too expensive to fly back AND pay for the ticket(s).

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 12:32 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 551

I wouldn't say I have great seats but it took alot of financial sacrifice to manage it so... u know :)

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 12:33 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 552

I haven't read (or heard) anything that says partial season ticket package holders won't get Opening Day tickets.

The Twins were actively marketing this as a benefit for 20 and 40 game packages up through early last year, so I would hope that those at least those folks are going to be offered guaranteed seats and not just a chance in the lottery.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 12:47 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 553

Don't the forty and twenty game people have a shot at OD? My understanding was that the quicker you paid your invoice the greater your chances.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 12:53 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 554

Sorry if this has been asked before, but have there been any talks about allowing surface lots around TF to have tailgating? I'm having a group of friends come to town, and that's what they want to do.

Man, if only Rapid Lot was still there...

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 1:04 PM by Chad Highlight this comment 555

Never really checked it out before but the number of seating opportunities on Stubhub (and I imagine elsewhere) is breathtaking. What do folks here think the ratio is between seats purchased by fans intending to sit in them and the other kinds? In other words --- at any particular game, how many seats, %-wise, will be occupied by original buyers. Any guesses?

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 1:34 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 556

The problem was, I wasn't told that I wouldn't get opening day. I specifically asked and my rep said that it would go to full first (of course, than it would go to 40 and than it would go to the ones who had 20 if there were any left. He said that there wouldn't be any at all for the general public because it would go to all season ticket holders regardless of package type.

If I was told right away than I wouldn't have had a problem. Two people told me it was this way, my rep and another rep. A third told me that wasn't the case. I was getting mixed information. If I'm not going to get it than I'm not going to get it but I'd like to be told that. I'd like the Twins to know what the heck is going on rather than telling me two different things at three different times.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:09 PM by AJ Highlight this comment 557

blah, italics fail.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:10 PM by AJ Highlight this comment 558

Lean! (Italics fixed.)

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM by Rick 559

I just read some of the rest of the comments. It sounds like there are mixed thoughts about it on here as well.

But what I was told twice was that season ticket holders would get opening day first, regardless of package type. I was told that by my rep and by a second rep. The third rep said that the 20 game package holders might have to have a lottery if there only few seats left because the full and 40 would get the first shots at it. I was also told that there likely would not be any tickets left for the general public.

I understand the person who said that not letting any out to the general public would be a PR nightmare. I would have been fine if that's what I was told right off the bat, but it wasn't..and it wasn't the time after that either.

If I'm not going to get it then I'm not going to get it, but that's not what I was told at first. I just don't like being jerked around or dealing with people who don't know what they're talking about. I can't afford a full package, otherwise I would have easily bought one. Maybe if I win the lottery!

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:26 PM by AJ Highlight this comment 560

Thanks Rick! Sometimes I type too fast.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:26 PM by AJ Highlight this comment 561

And when I get distracted, I end up typing the basically the same post and don't realize it. Sorry about that too!

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM by AJ Highlight this comment 562

In the case of, say, 20 game packages, there would be four people entitled to a chance at each seat (assuming that seat sold out). The decision on who gets first crack at that seat would, presumably, be based on some formula taking into account original priority first and invoice payment promptness next. I was told that the quicker I paid my invoice the better my chances would be at OD tickets (not necessarily "my" seats, however). You gotta figure that the pickings for "lottery" tickets are going to be slim and limited to seats reserved for single game sales - i.e. bleacher obstructed view, etc.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:40 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 563

I don't mind if the Twins give each and every season ticket account holder the chance at home opener tickets because that is an incentive to buying season tickets. All we have heard since 2006 was "get your Target Field seating priority" and "guarantee your place in the sun" today by ordering Twins Season tickets.

If there are approximately 20,000 full season ticket equivalants, that will leave approximately 50% of the capacity to partial plans and single game-exclusive tickets.

If you are one of those people in a "group" that shares a season ticket package, than you might be out of luck as that is the drawback to joining a "group" rather than having your own account.

If 10 people share one 81-game package, only the account holder should get that chance at opening day tickets since he is the account holder.

I just think each and every season ticket account holder should have the chance at home opener tickets before the general public. Even if that means a limit of two tickets.

The Twins will hold a public lottery regardless, even if the ballpark is 80% full of STH's because that will alleviate any PR concerns. Just how many tickets will actually be available to the public in the "lottery"? Now that is the question.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:44 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 564

The Truth Hurts nails one again. Capitalism is a beautiful thing (Cue Betaband and the liberals screaming and hollering for equality). The same scalpers who will be killing it on April 12th will be the same guys who are out there on a Wednesday in May versus the Royals in a driving rain getting pennies on the dollar for good seats. The market works in both directions. This is explicitly why I chose NOT to get season tickets (along with being able to sit in several locations all season long to determine the BEST spot to take in a game as opposed to being locked into 1 location for the whole season). While I know I'll pay a pretty penny for Opening Day tickets, I'll also sit in great seats many times during the season because the supply of tickets will outstrip the demand. Patience is a virtue. It looks to me like those who bought extra tickets are already getting a little antsy and nervous they may have bought too many...

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:45 PM by Max Highlight this comment 565

I was also told that no "extra" OD tickets would be offered to anybody, regardless of package originally purchased. So, at the risk of redundancy --- full season types get their seats, forty game types have a 50% chance at theirs, 20 game = 25% shot --- with speed of payment factoring in. The seat I will be sitting in for 20 games will be occupied by someone else for 60 games and empty (as of today) on OD. Am I missing anything here?

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 566

TTH, That is precisely why ticket prices to the New Yankee Stadium are ridiculous high. Season Ticket holders at the old ballpark were unloading their prime seats for thousands of dollars to Wall Street brokers and the like. Yanks brass said, "why don't we just do that then". Capitalism is ok, pure greed can ruin.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 2:57 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 567

We purchased a 20 game package and were told something similar to AJ. Obviously full season ticket holders would have OD but that also 40 and 20 (potentially) game package holders would have dibs on OD tickets as well. And that since we were getting the 20 game plan we would have a very slim, if any, chance at all because all the other plans would have their shot before us and get them all. Sorry if that last bit was confusing. Then if there were any left the public had their shot. We were told this on two separate occasions by two different reps. This isn't verbatim from the reps though and they were pretty vague describing parts of this process. But in all this is what my buddy and I got out of the conversation.

For us, the OD tix weren't a make or break for the purchase of the 20 gm plan. We have been planning a season ticket purchase for a while and finally could make the move. It was an added bonus when the reps said we'd get a better shot at OD. We would love to get OD but for us going to the STL and gopher game before the season starts and then going to another right after OD was good enough. Of course, that doesn't mean we won't try to get OD tix. ;)

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 3:04 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 568

I'll second that Max. I was willing to pay a pretty decent penny to go to the last reg-season game on Oct. 4. I'll be willing to pay again on eBay or some other place to try to get me into OD 2010.

Every new place has its honeymoon period. Eventually the honeymoon ends (except for the X, which still sells out), and tickets will be plentiful.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 3:08 PM by luke Highlight this comment 569

Yes, JohnF, and the Yankees found out the hard way: empty seats and bad PR. But I don't think that's a big enough reason to socialize the ticketing system. For the Yankees it was an experiment that failed. The system corrects itself, though, as the Yankees will lower prices and more seats will be filled.

No doubt other teams watched this unfold and have taken it into account when setting their prices. But in the end, a ballclub has the right to set whatever price it wants, just as Joe Fan has the right to purchase or not purchase a ticket.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 3:08 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 570

Glad to know that I wasn't alone, Jared. And that's what I thought too, Ben, the percentages that is.

I don't mind if I don't get it and I won't extremely overpay just to go that day because I can't afford it. It's just not what I was told, so the general public getting tickets and not season ticket holders is kind of off to me.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 3:28 PM by AJ Highlight this comment 571

"And that since we were getting the 20 game plan we would have a very slim, if any, chance at all because all the other plans would have their shot before us and get them all."

Again --- it is my belief, based on conversations with reps, that the only people who have a shot at "my" seat are me and whoever bought the other three packages. That seat was only available for 20 game purchase. The way I understand it I can do no worse that 25% chance of being offered that seat for OD AND my chances are enhanced by original priority as well as date (speed) of invoice payment. Further, my original priority and invoice payment promptness also put me "in line" for other (unclaimed) ST seats should I fail to get my own. Of course, this all comes from all the same reps who seem to be unclear on the process themselves.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 3:42 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 572

In all seriousness - What happens when opening day is snowed out and the game is rescheduled for August?

Are they going to use "Policy X" for the entire opening series vs the Red Sox? Not just game 1?

There is a chance that those people holding onto game 2 tickets actually get to witness "opening day".

I know the weather thing is tiring, but it IS plausible.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 573

" --- so the general public getting tickets and not season ticket holders is kind of off to me."

I think it is clear that ST holders will have first shot at ST seats. Whether or not their status will benefit them in regard to seats not held for ST sales is less clear but my guess is that ST holders of any stripe will get priority before general or lottery sales. My guess is that the Twins just assume that there will be seats "left over" when all ST holders have been offered a shot at something - and that those seats will be the dregs.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 3:51 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 574

I understand there is an off day on the 13th, but the rain/snow could make the field unplayable for those 2 days...leaving the 14th as the first game to be played.

Obviously those trying to acquire tickets for the 12th would be disappointed if (by their own fault) they didn't acquire tickets for the 14th as well...and end up unable to attend opening day.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 3:57 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 575

The Twins should have made these decisions a long time ago and let people know upfront what is going to happen for OD tickets.

I know that it is not popular, but I think that people with a 81 game package should be able to have the same chance at extra tickets to OD as people with 20-40 game packs. Almost all 81 game holders are groups. They are 20-40 packs that people pay through one person.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 4:35 PM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 576

Will the Twins be charging for entries into the general public lottery? I wouldn't put it past them.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 4:44 PM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 577

max - why are you such an idiot when it comes to discussing season tickets and the decision of whether or not one should buy them? i am a full-season season ticket holder, you loud-mouthed fool. i have opening day locked up and any game i want after that. that has been stated on here before, so it shouldn't be news to you.

with that being said why then would i be screaming for "equality" with all the other "liberals" as you so stupidly put it?! first, that makes no sense. second, i can't stand liberals. i have never pushed a "liberal" or "conservative" agenda on here. i am a moderate democrat. talk about being way off-base!

get a clue next time, bud!

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 6:47 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 578

Yeah Ben, I also forgot to mention that I was also told that no ST holder would be able to get more OD tix than the amount of seats they hold, or in short no "extra" tickets. That is, other than when the seats open to the general public, then they potentially could end up with more.

However, Ben, depending on your situation you could do worse than the 25 percent shot at your seats. Myself as an example would fall into this category because we got our seats so late that likely the majority of the ST plans get their chance before we would. You forget that there are two 40 game plans and if everyone who bought a ST tries for an OD ticket, half of those 40 gm people wont have rights to their seats and must choose elsewhere. Since they have priority over the 20 game plans they would potentially take any of the 20 game plan holders seats. Both reps we talked to about OD tix explained this part of the process to us in this way. As i mentioned previously, any of us could have misunderstood because of their relative vagueness. If this was the case then you would now have to split it with another group of people as well as your 20 gm companions and that would then decrease your probability of getting your seats to below 25%. This depends on where your are in order. In my case that would be somewhere near the end, so i don't have a good chance, potentially you as well.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 6:55 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 579

MLB.com: The holidays are always the time for gift giving. As we've talked about before, you always like to give back -- whether it's helping out the community in various ways throughout the season or just to give fans an autograph during Spring Training. Does that carry true to the holiday season as well?

Morneau: Yeah, I like giving gifts. As for myself, I don't make wish lists. I don't really like getting presents at all. I would much rather give to others.

MLB.com: Well since you are in a giving spirit, now would be the perfect time for our annual Secret Santa as part of the Twins' Holiday Q&A. So I'm going to ask you what you would give a few different people on the team. First up will be one of your best friends on the team, Joe Mauer.

Morneau: That's easy. I would get him a contract extension with the Twins.

MLB.com: That sounds like something all Twins fans would like to get for Christmas for this year. Next up on the list is manager Ron Gardenhire.

Morneau: I'd get Gardy a Joe Mauer contract extension.

MLB.com: I think I see a theme to this one. How about hitting coach Joe Vavra?

Morneau: A Joe Mauer contract extension.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 7:08 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 580

wow i just read all these posts... man you guys are crazy! lets talk tailgating huh kevin? beta???? please

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 7:27 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 581

re: approx 20,000 full season equivs leaving half capacity for partial plans and single games. I think all partial plans are already included in the full season equivalent figure. Future sales of partial plans will be added to the full season equivalent figure.
So currently there should be more than half capacity available for single and group purchase. Last I heard there are about 18,500 FSEs.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 7:31 PM by robin Highlight this comment 582

My prior post is irrelevant for games like the opener though, due to the cascading effect Jared mentions. Few 40-game plan holders would just want a single seat, for example, and even the full seasons have partners who would love their account holder to have a chance at extras.
Let's hope for bad weather and buy outside the gates.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 7:38 PM by robin Highlight this comment 583

Robin-
You have the idea. I just want to stress the point that, as i was told, as a ST holder with 2 seats (should ST holders get the opportunity at OD tickets before the public) we would be allowed to purchase 1 OD ticket for every seat we have, in this case 2. But no more. So someone with 4 ST seats could get up to 4 etc, etc. I would assume that everyone with more than one ST seat would get that just as many OD tickets even if they dont use them. They would then sell the unused for lots of money. If we could get more than our two seats that would be great but as i was told we can only get up to two. This is what i based my assumptions from in the earlier post. So i am not saying you are wrong, just wanted to clarify and add to what i said and what you said.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 7:56 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 584

Agreed.
I assume from what people have been posting about their discussions that the Twins policy on OD purchases has been evolving, as have other policies, and not surprisingly. I understand that multitudes have been calling Twins and Pro Shops to ask when they can buy individual game seats, assuming it will be at Twins Fest or shortly thereafter.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 8:04 PM by robin Highlight this comment 585

I'm with maz. Enough boring Opening Day ticket speculation. I imagine it will be on the telly. I'm not obsessed with being there for the opener. I'll get there enough.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 8:16 PM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 586

I was driving home tonight and caught DSP on 1500 KTSP. He stressed that there will be ample opportunities to get into the ballpark prior to April 2. The words "open house" came out of his mouth more than once, and he said the opportunities wouldn't be for just premium STHs but even mentioned an opportunity for the general public -- all happening in March.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 8:44 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 587

Jared -

I have talked to multiple people multiple times and I have NEVER had any of them tell me that STHs will be allowed to be extra OD tickets - in fact, I have been told exactly the opposite - that there will be NO presale for extra OD tickets for STHs.

If what you were told is indeed true, I certainly hope that partial plan STHs get the opportunity to buy OD seats before full plan holders get extras.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 9:59 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 588

If what you were told is indeed true, I certainly hope that partial plan STHs get the opportunity to buy OD seats before full plan holders get extras.

That's funny.....

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 10:06 PM by Steve Highlight this comment 589

TTH,

The news of a possible open house prior to the first game is most welcome! Based on my current status in the Twins' dog house, I've been assuming that I won't get in again without a ticket...

I talked to a long-time reader who took a tour the other day. When he asked if he could take pictures, his guide said, "Sure, just as long as they don't end up on a web site somewhere."

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 10:26 PM by Rick 590

I am sorry if you didn't understand or if I made it unclear. I will say again. I was told that during any "potential presale" of OD tickets that STH's cannot get extra tickets. If you have 1 seat, you can get 1 OD ticket during the presale. If you have two season seats, then you can get 2 OD seats, same for 3 or 4, etc etc. But you cannot get more. That all is based on speculation of a "presale" with emphasis on "potential". Disclaimer: the word "presale" was never used in my convo with reps but i used it for lack of a better word.

I will say however, that the reps did mention that the possibility for "extras" was there if you, as a STH, decided to try to also get OD tickets during any potential sale to the general public.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 10:29 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 591

Actually, in re-reading my earlier posts I see where you were confused. I used "STH" not in reference to "Full Season" but instead as partial plans and you thought it was in reference to "Full Season Ticket Holders". Take this with my post and the fact that it goes with some corresponding posts from Robin, reread them as such and you will see we stand on the same side of the line. Sorry about the confusion.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 10:35 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 592

I would say if you can afford season tickets of any kind you shouldn't really be worrying about those of us who can't afford any such package, full-season or otherwise, getting a shot at some tickets to opening day.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 10:50 PM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 593

I don't like how 20=40 game people keep saying that 81 gamers should not get "extra" tickets to OD. 20-40 gamers paid for 20-40 games. 81 games paid for 81 games. Everyone should have the same chance at OD tickets. 20-40 games knew that OD was not going to be part of their package. If 20-40 gamers get OD tickets before 81 gamers game "extra" they are getting more than what was in their plan.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 11:04 PM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 594

"In all seriousness - What happens when opening day is snowed out and the game is rescheduled for August?"

While I seriously hope for glorious spring weather on April 12, the fall back is an off day on April 13.

Of course, if we have a snowstorm on 4/11, and it takes all the way to Wednesday to clear it, then my lousy 20 game package is golden! I'm in! As a 20 game ticket holder, I hope I get a chance to buy opening day tix, but if not, I'll be there on on 4/14. I'll actually be interested to see that game, since usually game 2 of the season is one of the worst attended games of the season in the dome (week night, usually about 10-13K in attendance). An afternoon game in the new park will be very interesting. I do not expect a full sellout, but would be thrilled if that was the case.

Posted on December 30, 2009 at 11:24 PM by Linc Highlight this comment 595

Yea I think it would be funny if the first game was canceled. Imagine how pissed off those people would be that jumped through hoops and paid an arm and a leg for opening day tickets.

All the while, those that quietly snatched up game two tickets would be grinning ear to ear.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 08:32 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 596

That would be the epitome of irony. BUT, even though it would be a double-header, those who paid and arm and a leg would still see all the fanfare of the opening of TF festivities. Those at the second game, probably would not.

Speaking of OD fanfare, I do hope the Twins marketing dept. makes a little bit more hoopla about it than just giving people a certificate saying "I was there".

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 08:44 AM by luke Highlight this comment 597

That is, if they were able to schedule it as a double-header. The true irony would exist if game 1 had to be rescheduled for later in the season.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 09:00 AM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 598

Rick, so you are able to take pictures of Target Field and are able to show them to anyone you want to, but can not post them on a website. Doesn't make much sense to me

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 10:58 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 599

With Boston only in for one trip this year, I have to assume the backup plan is (1) play on Tuesday, 4/12, which is exactly why they have that open date, and then (2) day-night doubleheader on Wednesday, with those holding game 2 tickets being moved to the evening game.

That is just a guess, but I would assume they would want to preserve the Thursday getaway game as a noon start, but they have to try to get all three games in to avoid Boston having to fly back for a makeup game.

I also think that with the heated field it will have to be a very unusual April snowstorm to cancel games because of snow. Rain can happen whenever, but we don't get many huge April snows like they got in Cleveland a year or two ago.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 11:11 AM by Linc Highlight this comment 600

Last I knew, "Opening Day" was scheduled for April 5 in Los Angeles. There is only one Opening Day in my mind.

Yes, you can have a home opener on Opening Day such as the Twins did last season against the Mariners, but Opening Day 2010 is on the road in LA on April 5. So technically, the April 12 game should be referred to as the Home Opener.

Just my opinion.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 601

Joe117 - that's not correct. People who signed up for 20/40 game plans prior to a particular date were told they would be able to buy tickets for OD. That part of the sales pitch was dropped sometime last year, so anyone buying those plans is not guaranteed OD seats.

Those with partial accounts prior to that date clearly deserve OD seats since that's what they were promised.

I don't have a problem with a public lottery - used all the time for high demand tickets like playoffs, etc - BUT before the lottery starts. This is what I hope happens:

1) All partial game plan holders who committed before the cutoff date should get a chance to buy at least a pair of OD seats, assuming account was paid by December deadline.

2) Anyone who got a partial plan after that date paid in full should be given an opportunity to buy at least a pair after those in #1 have been taken care of.

3) Release anything left to the lottery pool.

I do *not* believe it is fair to allow full season plan holders to be allowed to buy extra (e.g. other than their full season seats) tickets (other than what they may be entitled to through the lottery).

One set of OD seats, per plan. Period. I don't want to see brokers who bought plans for the sole purpose of paying for the entire season on OD/Yankees/Brewers resales get rewarded.

As someone who has a season ticket group, I am sensitive to the fact that many would like to offer their partners OD seats, which is the only reasonable reason for an STH to want more tickets for OD.

I hope if the Twins have a lottery for OD, there are additional restrictions on the tickets sold, like requiring the person using the tickets present ID and/or credit card that matches the order on entry. This will ensure that any avaialble OD tickets go to fans that want to see the game, rather than speculators that want to treat the lottery as a lottery ticket.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 12:08 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 602

Regarding the first baseball game at Target Field. I sent a note to a Twins exec and received the following response:

"There has yet to be an announcement by the U of M and us on this game. Once we finalize details we will share them with you.

However you are correct in regards to having access to all ticketed events in the Club Seats.

I anticipate information soon."

Note that my question was limited to LC seats and whether I could expect to get my LC seats for the game, if desired. I have no idea on tickets for other areas. Tickets for Gophers baseball are usually available free to any U of M students; not sure if that applies to this game. Still waiting a response from the U.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 12:12 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 603

JFH - from your knowledge, what does that mean for 20 and 40 game holders who signed up for the extended payment plan (thus not paying in full by December 11) as it relates to their chances at tickets for the inaugural game?

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 12:53 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 604

"As someone who has a season ticket group, I am sensitive to the fact that many would like to offer their partners OD seats, which is the only reasonable reason for an STH to want more tickets for OD."

--- I don't necessarily like to see it in regard to scalpers, but making a profit legally IS NOT unreasonable.

I suppose in some sense it is unfortunate that "group" folks do not have any straight shot at OD tickets - but that is life and I doubt they were ever promised anything in that regard. It is clear that they had other options which would have either guaranteed them tickets or at least enhanced their chances. I, for one, am glad to see that the Twins are not allowing full STH to essentially buy up everything.

As to the "trickle down" deal with partial STH - I believe I was told that 40 game types will have a shot at left over 40 game seating, etc. - i.e. not have a shot at 20 game seats until 20 game STH are done. Put another way, partial STH will be allowed to move up into unclaimed OD seats but will not be allowed to infringe on lower levels until the dust settles. I could be all wet but that is what I heard.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 12:55 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 605

Mike -

My understanding is that use of the payment plan has no impact on whether you get seats or not, as long as payments are not missed and are completed as scheduled.

The only thing I ever heard was that for those not guaranteed OD seats is that they would be eligible to buy OD seats, one per seat (e.g. partial plan with 2 seats could buy 2 tickets), if they were available. My rep said this would be done in a some sort of account priority number, with preference given by date of first payment. I specifically asked if it made a difference if it was payment in full or the 50/50 split - response was that it didn't matter.

I didn't realize (or didn't remember) that partial plan holders were eligible for the 5 month plan - I just thought they had 50/50 or pay in full.

Also note that my rep has been wrong in the past - I'm not as confident when I get answers from him as from others with the Twins - but I was told the same thing by two other reps.

When I asked whether I would have a chance to buy tickets (e.g. lottery) or be guaranteed the ability to buy tickets, I was told I WILL get the ability to purchase OD seats for my partial plan (because my plan was before the cutoff date). My opportunity to get tickets is guaranteed; seat location is not. Should be same pricing area, 1 in 4 shot of being same seats.

Ben -

I don't have problem with people making a profit. I do have a problem with people who have no intention of going to opening day taking tickets away from fans that really want to go. Of course it will happen. I just hope the Twins do something special to minimize it.

As for group participants and OD, everyone that expressed interest in my group was told up front that I was using OD for myself. Some groups will draft. I would think most joining a group would understand how things will work before they commit.

I did look into buying group seats just so partners and friends could attend, but was told that my chances of getting group seats were zero (I've only bought 2 group games in the past). The OD seats attached to my partial plan are going to one of my partners at cost; I just wish I could have gotten seats for the others.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 1:30 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 606

Of course, this whole OD tickets question could just be put to rest if the Twins would just come out and publish the actual policy.

It does bother me that not everyone who asks hears the same story.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 607

I don't have much to say about tickets for the home opener (I hope to be there, of course, but I will probably be swimming in the lottery pool -- and watching on TV), but this much is clear:

Like a lot of things related to this new ballpark, the Twins are probably making this up as they go along.

We would all like to think that, with four years (some would say 10) to plan for it, this would have been all figured out long ago. But the reality is that there are thousands of variables and decisions to be made, each with unpredictable consequences affecting many thousands of fans. Each of those fans cares primarily about their own personal interest, and has very little patience for vagueness. (Frankly, it would make a good chaos theory modeling problem.)

Knowing that they're going to fill the place that day makes things a little easier, but it's still about keeping the customers happy. It becomes a balancing act between the customers with big wallets and those with only big passion. I see what the Twins want to do (the right thing) and the great difficulties in pleasing everybody.

I guess I would counsel patience.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 2:21 PM by Rick 608

I guess as someone who hopes to score a couple of home opener tickets in the public lottery, I don't think it's anyone's business if I decide to resell them for profit. It's perfectly legal if I were to choose to do so.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 2:30 PM by Buffalo Highlight this comment 609

"Like a lot of things related to this new ballpark, the Twins are probably making this up as they go along." = THE bottom line.

I would not be surprised to hear that they are just spinning a big wheel. They have a lot of balls to keep in the air.

And Rick --- we both know where you (and I) SHOULD be on opening day.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 2:56 PM by B.W. McEvers (aka Ben) Highlight this comment 610

It's the beauty of a Supply/Demand economy! As long as someone wants to buy it, and it's a legal substance/service, you can sell it.

Now, how you acquire those substances/services is a whole nother story...

(yes, I know that's not proper English)

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 3:05 PM by DreDogg Highlight this comment 611

"I guess as someone who hopes to score a couple of home opener tickets in the public lottery, I don't think it's anyone's business if I decide to resell them for profit. It's perfectly legal if I were to choose to do so."

Legal is not the issue. I agree wholeheartedly with those who feel it would be nice if fans who really want to attend the game somehow got precedence over the predatory/greedy types - they deserve a break. If the Twins had some way of rewarding long-standing, thick and thin, died-in-the-wool fans, there would be several thrones right behind the plate --- and I would be sitting in one of them.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 3:06 PM by Ben Highlight this comment 612

See my link for when people should have started worrying about Home Opener tickets at the new ballpark.

I have big passion and a small wallet but with years of careful planning, I'll get to be there.

Rick, I'm sure someone here who gets an opportunity for more tickets for the Home Opener will hook you up :)

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 7:07 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 613

The NHL's Winter Classic is tomorrow at Fenway. Last year, I think it was at Wrigley. Any chance we could see this someday at TF? Since it's at Fenway this year, I'm sure the Yankees are lobbying heavily for it to take place at their palace ASAP. I think 'the State of Hockey' would be a perfect host for such an event.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 10:29 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 614

Expectorate - click my name. Charley Walters a couple weeks ago wrote that the Wild have contacted the Gophers about using TCFBS.
There are some other blogs around that suggest TCFBS as well. One was a bit misleading, saying that TCFBS seats 80,000 for football - which of course it doesn't.

Yahoo Sports had a list of "ballparks we'd like to see Winter Classics in" located here: 2011 Winter Classic
Target Field was Yahoo's first choice.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 11:23 PM by luke Highlight this comment 615

luke - the gophers stadium is capable of expansion to 80K. so that blog you are referring to was 1/2 right, if you want to look at it that way.

Posted on December 31, 2009 at 11:50 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 616

Happy 2010 everybody. It's finally the year of Target Field.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 08:03 AM by johnc Highlight this comment 617

I must say I was surprised to read in that blog that Yankee Stadium will be holding a college football bowl game each of the next three years. Between the winter weather and the damage football will do to the baseball field I find that rather shocking. Has this been known for long?

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 09:21 AM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 618

The blog report I read, from bleacherreport.com (click my name for it) said the following: "The home for the Golden Gophers football team, TCF Bank Stadium would be a tremendous venue to view an outdoor hockey game. There are 80,000 seats in total in the stadium, and that’s not including any seats that may be added closer to the rink for such an event. In fact, it’s completely feasible that the NHL could even pack 100,000 rear ends in the stadium—something that would be a financial boon for the NHL."

Financial boon, certainly, but 100,000 for an NHL game? Man, it's bad enough Mark Cuban was boasting that number for the NBA All Star Game at the Jerry Jones Palace next month.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 10:14 AM by luke Highlight this comment 619

In regards to the Winter Classic at TCF Bank, since there's no alcohol allowed there, I'd be surprised if they landed it. NHL would lose alot of revenue. I'd think they'd either need to get it at Target Field or wait until they figure out the alcohol situation at TCF. What do you guys think?

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 11:20 AM by Jeremy Highlight this comment 620

Jeremy, I think you are right. I think the gophers will do their own thing at TCF. unless they would allow alcohol, I do not see them getting a wild game.

The only reason they might compromise would be for the additional seating.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 11:52 AM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 621

so TCF is alcohol free for all events not just U-related events? U2 will be alcohol free? I guess I didn't think about that -- that other groups that 'rent' the facility for non-college type events would have to remain alcohol-free. I just figured the Gopher events were. I guess I wasn't paying attention! :d

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 12:23 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 622

Hockey at Fenway on NBC right now. I'll have clips later.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 12:30 PM by Rick 623

Having the winter classic at The Bank makes more sense. Better sight lines and bigger attendance. I don't even follow hockey, but I'd go to the game here and having or not having booze didn't even cross my mind.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 12:43 PM by Kramer Highlight this comment 624

Back to the Twins though....

Status of radio rights? I think KSTP just finished up the last year of a three-year deal.

And what color jersey will the vendors be wearing?

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 12:44 PM by Kramer Highlight this comment 625

TCF is the better place to have a hockey game. It would give more people a chance to go.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 1:18 PM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 626

Kramer,

I don't know what the status of the radio contract is. I would like to see KFAN get the rights and play the games on KFAN/KTLK. But I don't think it would ever happen.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 1:22 PM by Joe117 Highlight this comment 627

I think that playing outdoor hockey in a baseball park is pretty cool. No offense to TCFBS, but the sightlines at TF would be way better -- and you can get a beer.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 1:25 PM by Rick 628

As for radio, the Twins desperately need to find a place on the FM dial for their broadcasts.

And they really need to be done with 1500. I've truly come to hate that station during this three-year contract. I think that almost anything (other than, say, "The Patriot") would be better.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 1:29 PM by Rick 629

"As for radio, the Twins desperately need to find a place on the FM dial for their broadcasts."

Yes,that would be GREAT along with dumping John Gordon...

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 3:08 PM by Steve Highlight this comment 630

"--- and you can get a beer"

YEP! TF is the way to go with this one...

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 4:32 PM by trosy29 Highlight this comment 631

I received four tickets to the home opener for Christmas (left field, upper deck), I will probably only use two of them.

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 9:19 PM by Kaine Highlight this comment 632

Kaine, were these the actual Target Field Opener tickets? Or were they hand-crafted out of construction paper, perhaps like a hug coupon? Or were they whipped up in PowerPoint and printed off on card stock? :D

I didn't think anyone had their tickets yet but what do I know, I'm not done paying for mine lol

Posted on January 1, 2010 at 10:23 PM by Jax Highlight this comment 633

Ha yes, allow me to clarify. I received four meta-tickets for Christmas. I will receive the actual tickets sometime after season ticket holders receive them.

Btw, does anyone here know when exactly that is or is that info still beyond us?

Posted on January 2, 2010 at 12:32 AM by Kaine Highlight this comment 634


This page was last modified on December 5, 2009.



"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3045 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.


TC gets ready to release the hounds. (Kids get to run the bases after Sunday games.)






Break time









Ye Olde Tyme Vegetable Cart (and its modern cousin)



Yankee Stadium



Bike parking available along Second Avenue



Emergency access as viewed from outside the ballpark



B ramp at left, ballpark at right (and visible far away through the tiny crack)



Quote wall



Such promise. (Click to enlarge.)






Photo by Jared Wieseler












A cold afternoon in 323, but we had our trusty Twins blanket -- made by my mom when Noah was born.



The entrance from the service level corridor. (You have to pass the Twins clubhouse door to get there.)









Complicated pedestrian crossing















Kirby Jr. set to take down the last number






This is the staircase (ramp?) leading up to the trapezoid. Nice flagpole too. You'll be able to find me and Ben McEvers at the base of that flagpole on opening day in 2010!












Harmon is visible (barely) at the very center of the crowd.






This is the Carew gate covered in plastic.



The entry from the platform to the ballpark.



Lots of pix waiting to be seen from Bert's memorable night.



Work has begun on the plaza, and the activity has started to impact I-394 traffic.



Special guests in the trees!



A sign that your mall is all but dead: roped off escalators. (This is at about 4:00 PM on a weekday.)



From an earlier visit: Don't bother with those escalators either. They were also roped off. And how about a bench? Or a planter? Or even a trash can? That woman is doing the only thing she can: leaning up against a post to do her texting.









Looking from the doorway to the south, across Seventh Street



Gate 34 Puckett



Click on this photo to see what it looked like on this spot 101 years ago (I'm not kidding)



The wooden louvers are in on Fifth Street



Freight trains run in very close proximity (Jerry Bell was standing at my left elbow when I took this picture)



Dugout Dog





Glossary

BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

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(2008)
 

Selected Bibliography - Surveys
 


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Second Edition (1987)
 


Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
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(2000, large coffee table)
 


Original edition (2000, round)
 


Revised edition (2006, round)
 


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Combines the previous two titles
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Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia
 


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Book and six ballpark miniatures
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Complete Bibliography

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