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Intermission

July 14, 2009 10:54 PM

Time for a quick break from my strolling tour of last week (and from trying to put the finishing touches on my train article -- I promise that it's coming as soon as I get a few facts checked) to take a new look at the Target Field model.

The model, which has made the rounds over the last couple of years, is currently housed at the Twins sales office in the Multifoods tower. A good friend of this site took some photos during a ticket consultation, and there are lots of details to be extracted. First and foremost, there's this:

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Yep, I think we can consider it confirmed that Target Field will feature as its signature image the original Twins logo! This neon sign is likely to be animated, though there's no way to tell yet just how. Shaking hands would be simply amazing. I'm sure the team is being creative on this.

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Click to enlarge.

For the younger crowd, this logo (seen at right on the cover of the original Twins 1961 program) depicts the "twins" of Minneapolis and St. Paul baseball teams shaking hands over the Mississippi River.

You read that right: The original Twins logo, which will be depicted in a very large manner at Target Field, contains a Minneapolis Millers player and a St. Paul Saints player -- complete with their original team logos on their uniforms -- shaking hands over the river. It's a depiction of the two formerly adversarial fan bases coming together to support one team.

If you ever wondered why they aren't the Minneapolis Twins, there is your reason.

For those of us who remember those early years, this is an amazing and iconic image which captures much of the spirit of the original team. The Washington Senators, from which the Twins sprang in 1961, were primarily known as perennial losers (though not as lovable as the Cubs). Baseball fans in the Twin Cities were certainly excited for the arrival of Major League baseball, but they were also accustomed to winning.

Thus it made sense for the Twins to immediately align themselves with the two beloved -- and largely successful -- franchises which they would be displacing (both teams disappeared with the arrival of the Twins). With their stadium having been built (sort of by luck) in neutral territory, it was completely plausible to become "Minnesota's team" rather than selecting an identity aligned with one city or the other. Thus was Twins Territory born.

The logo pays respect to the very long history of baseball in this region, tying the Twins directly to their ancestors, acknowledging and celebrating in one image the deep love for the game found in these parts.

Nothing could be more appropriate to have as a signature piece at Target Field.

Other Details

Here are a few more details which can be teased out of the pictures. First, let's look at the Budweiser party deck.

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The bar is underneath the party deck roof, and that square just outside the roof is the fire pit. On the front you can clearly see steps where people can sit/stand to watch the game.

Next up, a good look at the press box. I do wish that those letters said "Herb Carneal Press Box" but I realize that sentiment only goes so far. For the record, it reads "Welcome to Target (logo) Field."

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Just below the press box, you can see the moat -- actually two moats. The inner one protects the Champion's Club, while the outer one isolates the Dugout Box sections. Interestingly, if you look at the Dugout Box area, you can clearly see how a subtle level of asymmetry has been designed into the grandstand.

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Champion's Club moat (windows are found at the base of the limestone behind the seats -- not visible in this image)


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Dugout Box and Champion's Club sections are sequestered by separate moats

We also get a look at the layout of the Champion's Club itself, which lies directly behind those seats beneath the grandstand.

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Champion's Club details (click to enlarge)

Here's a quick look at the Puckett Atrium and some of the details on how it will be finished.

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Our host points to the Puckett Atrium on the diagram.


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Detail of the Puckett wall hanging


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A view into the Legend's Club

Next, a quick look at the Suite and Club Levels, including a peek at the suite mock-up in the sales office.

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Close-up on the diagram of the Club Level with finishing materials (click to enlarge)


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The suite mock-up

Now for an updated look at a couple of the gates.

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Gate 29 Carew (note the walkway above open to the street where you can shout down at your lost friends to tell them where to meet you)


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Gate 6 Oliva, with the 573 Club looming large over it (I wonder how Tony feels about that)

And, finally, a few great shots of the revised plaza model.

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Target Plaza in model form


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Target Plaza looking toward the grandstand


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The sculpture on which millions of kids will one day pose.


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Detail on the main gate, with Target Field sign

Special thanks to our good friend, jfh, for providing the snaps.

But I'll leave you where I began -- with one of those finishing touches which can turn a good baseball place into a great one.

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Signature elements. (And they wonder why we think the real trees look so small...)

Comments


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Awesome detail, I'm gonna love that sign. This ballpark is unreal and it's great how they have included so much cool stuff. Hopefully we can create a new park that will be around for 100 years like Wrigley.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 01:24 AM by Eric in TX Highlight this comment 1

On the party deck, I believe the fire pit is along the east side, and not under the canopy.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 06:38 AM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 2

The fireplace on the party deck is the smaller rectangle on the outside of the roof, underneath is the bar area.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 06:46 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 3

very cool pics. great job as always Rick.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 07:01 AM by luke Highlight this comment 4

and I know there's been lots of speculation around here about the 2012 ASG.
Here it is from the horses mouth, Bud Selig at the press conference yesterday.

Vince Micucci: And 2012 will mark the 100 year anniversary of Fenway Park and Wrigley Field in Chicago. Would the Players Association and Major League Baseball be willing to have two All-Star Games in the centennial ballparks?

Commissioner Selig: We have not made a decision on the 2012 All-Star Game, and Boston just had an All-Star Game in 1999. We have a lot of new stadiums where All-Star Games have been promised. But that is a great moment. I believe the Cubs are up in 2014 if memory serves me correctly.

Click my name for Selig's annual ASG "State of the Union" address and Q & A session.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 07:08 AM by luke Highlight this comment 5

Did you count the flagpoles? Was there not four originally?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 08:46 AM by B.W. McEvers Highlight this comment 6

Yep, Ben, good catch. There were four poles on the original model, the fourth being essentially flush with the edge of the outfield pavilion.

But they only put up three in the actual ballpark -- which happened long ago. It may be that the model was changed to reflect reality.

Ah, flag poles. What next?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 08:56 AM by Rick 7

Oh, and thanks David_Mpls for correcting the location of the fire pit. Duh. Don't know what I was thinking. I corrected the article.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 09:09 AM by Rick 8

never knew the original logo was a tribute to the millers & saints. that is awesome. thx for the elucidation, rick.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 09:09 AM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 9

Awesome analysis, Rick. I love that sign in center field!

Wow - an interior suite rendering!?! What is this demonry!?

I've walked through the "shell" of the Champions Club. It will be a very cool experience for those who get the opportunity to attend a game there. I propose that 2 tickets be held out and given to random Hennepin County citizen fans for each game. :)

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 09:21 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 10

The logo in center, and this ballpark altogether, are going to be amazing. The Twins really did it right, as did the Gophers with TCF. I can't wait to see the grass go in next month.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 09:32 AM by crfire163 Highlight this comment 11

Did they connect the seats in center where the gap was before?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 09:55 AM by Twinlves Highlight this comment 12

Anyone think they'll light up the "TARGET FIELD" sign that sits on top of the Metro Club?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 09:57 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 13

ok rick you schooled me also, i didn't know the "twins" represented the millers and saints, i thought it was just the two cities traditional rivalry being depicted. that just makes the logo display even more awesome as there is a lot of baseball history represented.

I noticed this week some twins ads on bus shelters i havn't seen before, having fun with the real grass vs. turf differences.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 10:06 AM by tim Highlight this comment 14

After watching the All Star Game last night at Busch Stadium III, I have to say I am very underwhelmed by the place. Sure the brick exterior is gorgeous, but other than the St. Louis skyline, which disappears quickly after the sun goes down, there is nothing that makes it more that meh stadium. Nothing iconic in the outfield, no weird quirks, just a field. It helped me make up my mind that I do like the right field overhang at Target Field, and having all those left field seats makes the ballpark feel more intimate. And of course that sign in center field is the cherry on top.

So yes there is a line between fun and Disney like, but in my opinion, both are a whole lot better than Busch's meh feel.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 10:48 AM by Andrew Highlight this comment 15

After being in in the new Busch stadium, I have to say that while it's nice, it's not anything terribly great.
The skyline is great but you can see white pvc pipe below the suites and the steel structure looks a little generic.
I would say that the New Busch reminds me a lot of US Cellular field in Chicago. It's not horrible but for a new ballpark, it certainly doesn't overwhelm anyone.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 10:54 AM by Boof Highlight this comment 16

Busch III seems like the definition of "meh" to me. Maybe it's an optical illusion, but the main grandstand looks substantially taller than Target Field. There is no sense of intimacy at all.

I like the little touches (castings) on the wall behind home plate. But when that's the most interesting thing you can find about a ballpark, it has to be called underwhelming.

Maybe people who have been there can shed some light on what it's like in person.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 10:56 AM by Rick 17

I've been there a couple times, and for better or worse, it's HUGE. Mostly worse. It somehow manages to be less intimate than it's cookie cutter predecessor.

But it's in a good location. Getting from your seat to the street is easy too.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 18

Betaband, I bet you want the MSP Twin to push the STP Twin into the river, don't ya? haha

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:17 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 19

MLPS I meant, sorry it's early here.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:18 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 20

The wood art of Puckett is a wonderful addition. Modern & classy, just like the rest of T.F.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:19 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 21

Rick - great article. Like others, I did not understand the history behind the original logo. I think its' inclusion in the park is a fantastic tribute to Minnesota baseball fans and the Twins deserve much credit for incorporating the historical reference into the new park and resisting the obvious temptation to place more advertising space in it's place. Quite frankly, this "one-ups" NYS and the facade, because of it's prominent position in the park. I wish I had thought to ask more about it during my visit.

OG Jeff - if all of the Champions Club seats are not sold on a full season basis, it's quite possible that the Twins may sell what remains either day of game or for the upcoming homestand, since, unlike Legends Club seats, these are not "owned" by the season ticket holder. (Someone please correct me if this is not true).

Now, if like other clubs with such areas, I'm sure the Twins will use some of the unsold seats for promotional purposes, either internal or external (and I suspect the club has held back some seats in that area anyway. I know they have held back tickets in Home Plate Box for MLB use (golden tickets, etc.).

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 22

I have to wholeheartedly agree with the Busch analysis. Several friends that have been there have said it's a nice place to watch a game but not a "great" park.

I've never been, but other than the Arch is seems very underwhelming. There is no character whatsoever in the outfield seating. Their canopy is a nice throwback, but seems more like a contrived retro.

Although one could say that Nationals Park is the first "modern" ballpark (it, also, is very underwhelming(, I think Target Field will be the first successful modern field...

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:22 AM by ajndsu Highlight this comment 23

So - given Selig's comments that the Cubs may be lined up for the All Star game in 2014 (which, if true, would imply that we will have back/back games again for one league), any thoughts on a revised schedule for the Twins? Do the Twins take 2013 instead of the Mets, since NYC had the game last year? Do they bump the Royals? Slide back a few years? Or do we all hope that Bud mispoke and that they are the most likely candidate for 2014?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:38 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 24

I'm sure that the Twins are asking some questions today. My impression was that the Twins can't really come out and say they are going after the 2014 game unless they have a reasonable degree of certainty that they'll get it.

It sounds like these things are kind of like the classic smoke-filled room types of deals.

The Cubs last hosted in 1990. The Twins in 1985. 2014 is an AL year. I think Selig misspoke.

Won't he be gone by the time that decision has to be made?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:44 AM by Rick 25

Great post Rick. As for the logo in center-field, it is on par with the minor tweaks as the ball has the correct stitching.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 12:06 PM by MATT Highlight this comment 26

This is an awesome website! I came up to the Sox-Twins series last weekend. I stayed at the Univ. of Minnesota and took the # 16 bus to the games. That worked out great! I've heard that there will be a "bus hub" at Target Field. Do you know where that will be located yet??

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 12:30 PM by shill Highlight this comment 27

Welcome, shill!

The big bus transfer area is already in operation on the ground floor of the B ramp (that's the parking ramp which cuts a notch into Target Field).

With all the talk about rail, it's easy to forget that TF will also be a bus-rider's dream.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM by Rick 28

Good catch, Matt, on the stitching. I know that has been a source of annoyance for some throughout the years.

For those who don't know about it, take a close look at the program cover up there and compare the baseball stitching to the Target Field sign. It has been corrected on the sign.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 12:46 PM by Rick 29

Thanks for the bus info! As for those taking the 16 from the U, I must say this! Bring on 2014! Target Field is going to simply keep improving as Metro Transit keeps improving. Imagine the day when you can hope a light rail or commuter rail from all corners of the metro and deposit yourself within a short walk of the ballgame. At the moment, we have a taste of it, but Target Field is going to be simply so much greater in that department as time progresses.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 12:51 PM by James Berka Highlight this comment 30

Thanks for the bus info Rick! I can also chime in on the St Louis ballpark. I'm from Iowa (don't hold that against me!) I've been to the new Cards park twice. I agree with the "it's nice, but nothing spectacular" comments already made. My biggest problem with it is the fact that the main concourse is not open to the playing field. That's what I'm really looking forward to at Target Field. After a few innings I like to roam, stand, and "explore" a ballpark. That's what I like best about US Cellular Field in Chicago, and that's going to be a super aspect of Target Field!!

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM by shill Highlight this comment 31

I have a question, and I apologize if it has been asked and answered previously. I see that the gates are numbered and named after Carew, Hrbek, Oliva, and Killebrew. I thought there was also a gate for Puckett, or some other prominent part of the park. What exactly will be the recognition of Puckett in the ballpark, and where is it in the ballpark? If you want to direct me to a previous link or two about this, that is perfectly fine with me.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:01 PM by Dan Highlight this comment 32

The main gate, which enters the park from the plaza, is Gate 34 Puckett. In addition, the Puckett Atrium is a part of the Legend's Club, images of which can be seen above.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM by Rick 33

Click my name for an interesting article about radio ratings.

It's interesting here because the Twins are definitely in need of a new radio partner, preferably to include a local FM station.

I'm not sure how others feel, but I hate KSTP.

The test of a baseball radio station is when you get in the car the next day, after listening to a game the night before. Whenever I do that with KSTP it's some obnoxious (and logic-challenged) talk radio loser (yeah, I'm looking at you, Soucheray). It has literally made me think twice about turning on the game while I'm in the car.

That's just not right!

So, are the Twins bringing down KSTP's ratings, or is KSTP bringing down the Twins' ratings? I think it's the latter, and I bet you could prove it within the numbers.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:14 PM by Rick 34

New Bush Stadium does not have open concourse, that's kinda shocking. I wonder if there is a reason for that. I would have figured all the newer parks would have open concourse, interesting.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:15 PM by MATT Highlight this comment 35

I'm really excited about the old school logo. I'm sure they'll make it work if it's just lit up or has moving parts. I like how Calvin originally wanted to call the Twins the Twin Cities Twins as opposed to the Minneapolis or St Paul Twins. They ended up keeping the TC hat logo in the end. Sounds like they went out of their way to avoid offending either city, which was a smart move. That Miller-Saints rivalry was pretty nasty from what I've read. Also will be nice if the Saints are able to build a new stadium in Lowertown. A ballpark at either end of Central Corridor would be incredible.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:15 PM by John C Highlight this comment 36

I should add that the Twins broadcast itself, especially the post-game show, has improved a lot since they left WCCO. It's not the Twins' fault that I hate KSTP.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:17 PM by Rick 37

Rick...I feel your pain. I'm not sure if I hate KSTP or if I just hate the Twins announcers. We used to have awesome radio announcers with Hall, Carneal and Scott. Gordon is god awful and Gladden has a terrible radio voice.

That said, the content of the pre and post game has improved. But I don't know about the production quality. Being that I live in AZ and I much prefer to listen to baseball than watch it (it's a generational thing that young people just don't understand) I subscribe to MLB.com gameday audio (only $15 for the entire year). I listen to dozens of games and by far the Twins Radio Network broadcast as the WORST sound quality. My 1966 GE transistor radio has better sound quality than their production. Does it really sound that bad on the air in MN??? When I listen to the Dodgers online, it's crystal clear, the Twins sounds like John Gordon is speaking through a tunnel.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:26 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 38

My biggest issue with KSTP is the horrible signal inside the house, and I had a ton of interference while driving AROUND TARGET FIELD! I don't think it's signal weakness, but it seems extremely prone to interference from the downtown "noise" where WCCO, and of course all FM stations are clear as a bell...everywhere.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:43 PM by JCTwins Highlight this comment 39

Rick:

Carl and his boys have been buying up radio stations in the Twin Cities (B96 among others) the last few years. I believe the KSTP1500 contract is up soon (end of 2010 I think). Look for the Pohlads to take the Twins "in-house" and to begin swimming in more Benjamins as this is where they will control all the revenue!!!

For me while the reception on KSTP sucks, especially after dark, the main beef is with the broadcasting crew (John Gordon, Dan Gladden,etc.). Gordo gets easily confused, loses track of the outs, balls & strikes, goes off-topic way too much and for too long (we are listening for the GAME not your thoughts on Harley Davidsons or the fishing report on Lake Mille Lacs), and last but not least calls plays wrong or says one thing when an entirely different thing actually happened. Ultra annoying especially when you are watching on TV and notice this.

I am a realist however. Gordo is in the Twins back pockets. He pretty much has a lifetime contract. I don't expect any changes in the near future.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:44 PM by Max Highlight this comment 40

What was corrected on the stitching? I guess I don't know what to look for.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:45 PM by James Highlight this comment 41

The signal strength of the KSTP broadcast to "Twins Territory" ends after dark when you get just a mile from Hudson, WI. The broadcast literally cannot be heard. Not everyone in WI is a fan of the NL team from the other side of the state.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM by TJF in Wisc Highlight this comment 42

As far as broadcasters, I can't stand it when Gladden refers to the player between 2nd and 3rd as the "shirtstop". Drives me nuts!

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM by James Highlight this comment 43

i agree the team needs to find a new radio home. the signal is just not strong, even in the city, i don't care what the team and kstp claims. people have been complaining about this ever since the team switched, it's not a new issue and has never been addressed. i wish the team had agreed to a contract with KFAN when the rights were up for negotiation a couple years ago, but whatever. every time i hear the constant soucheray ads during twins games, i just lower the volume.

ive never liked john gordon either. we used to make fun of his hyper homerun calls when he first started with the team. even to this day he'll make it seem like a ball is gone by the inflection of his voice, only to have our hopes dashed when the ball is caught at the fence. and the cardinal rule of radio play-by-play is to constantly give the number of outs, which is so badly lacking by gordon and dan gladden, they seem to forget at times they're speaking to a radio audience. ok enough bitching....

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 1:59 PM by tim Highlight this comment 44

James - It's a minor tweak from the current one. Click name.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:00 PM by MATT Highlight this comment 45

god rest his soul but herb carneal didn't do it for me. he was the pat summeral of baseball radio ("robert smith...[7 seconds of dead air]...outta bounds...").

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:03 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 46

On July 3rd (the night of the marathon game vs. the Tigers) I was shocked to pick up the Twins game while sitting in the Sky Sox stadium parking lot in Colorado Springs. I'm absolutely sure it was KSTP, and reading these comments makes it all the more shocking that the signal won't make it to Hudson but will make the 730-mile flight to Colorado.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:13 PM by Nick in CO Highlight this comment 47

I completely agree w/ all KSTP talk...thing that really has made me mad is how Gordo will do a few innings and then Gladden takes over for 3 innings and then Gordo comes back and does a few, etc...why can't they just work together throughout the game? I understand Gordo is getting up there in age but 3 innings to take a piss?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:19 PM by MMels Highlight this comment 48

Also, does anyone know if the TF model is open to the public? If so, where is it located?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:25 PM by MMels Highlight this comment 49

The thing about Kstp is the signal is not as strong as Wcco so you barely get out of the metro area and you lose the broadcast and what broadcast you do get sounds terrible. Wcco had A much better signal that had better range and sound.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:26 PM by Leroy Highlight this comment 50

They have finally completed the area in the right field corner it seems. It looks like they have boxes lined along the first base line, so that area between the completed section and right field may be next.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:26 PM by Twins Territory Highlight this comment 51

I didn't get so much a feeling of height from the main grandstand at Busch Stadium as opposed to it feeling too spread out. Perhaps its an optical illusion, but the park seems much wider from the front of the stands to the rear and then to the exterior than most of the new parks. The outer brick facade also seems to not link up well with the interior seating deck. It's as if the two elements were designed separately and then linked up later without much thought about how they'd connect.

One odd quirk of sorts is the break in the roof along the top deck of the third base/left field line. In the open space are two brick towers, 4 lighting towers, and a Hardee's. It looks a bit odd in the overall scheme of things, but seems as if it could be a fun hangout/party area. The choice of restaurant, sponsorship money or not, leaves much to be desired, however.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:28 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 52

Rick, you hit the nail on the head with the desire for an FM signal. When I'm driving up north, listening to the FM stations out of Alexandria and Little Falls on the Twins radio network really show how terrible the AM quality is for KSTP. It was pretty depressing last weekend making the switch to 1500 coming down I-94.

I really hope a local FM station gets the next contract (for the Vikings as well).

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:32 PM by ajndsu Highlight this comment 53

was at busch and the K a few weeks ago.. great location for busch...but other than that it was basiclly just a nice ballpark...the new K i think blows it away...and the food at busch sucked except for the bratzel...beer was 8.25 i think... luckly we sunck in a bottle

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:36 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 54

ajndsu,

The Vikings have been on FM 100.3 KTLK for about the last 3 years.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:49 PM by Steve in FL Highlight this comment 55

RE: Radio Ratings

KSTPs ratings aren't down, they are being measured differently. You can't compare the previous measuring system (diaries) and the new one (electronic meters). It's not intellectually honest.

If you measured your speed in MPH and then Kilometers per hour, you wouldn't be going faster with the KPH, you'd be measuring it differently. The new electronic meters are likely more accurate, but should only be compared to other electronic metering data.

(Does being forced to listen to Steve Miller at Subway count as radio "listening"? Technically it does, I guess, even if you're trying to ignore it. But that seems to be a different behavior than driving in your car trying to listen to a program/ballgame.)

I second the obeservation that Twins Radio Network has TERRIBLE quality on MLB gameday audio. By far the WORST in MLB.

Also, totally agree about KSTP. Tired of the talk show blowhards.

And finally, for what its worth, I like Gordo. I'd rather here him and his honest mistakes than Bert and his cranky SOB "Why-doesn't-everyone-always-pitch-complete-games?!! shtick.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 2:59 PM by Dale Highlight this comment 56

For all you kids, my link has a couple of clips of vintage Halsey Hall. I only wish someone had a clip of him during bat day - those were hysterical! On the second clip, you can hear the wonderful Met organ in the background playing Win Twins.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:00 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 57

Sadly it doesn't surprise me that many of you claim to be huge Twins fans but know very little about the history of the team, how Minnesota came about to having a team, its original home or logo. Many of you probably never knew the Millers existed until Rick brought it up. Perhaps if you invested one-tenth of the amount of time you spend watching people getting punched in the nads on YouTube on "book learnin'" you might gain a better, deeper appreciation for things like Twins baseball.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:02 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 58

Here's a neat clip of Herb Carneal, including the last out at the Met.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:06 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 59

Truth Hurts,

I'm old enough to remember those days. I remember the double-headers when the first game was in St. Paul and the 2nd game was at Nicollet. I remember the fans getting into fist fights on the streetcar going between the 2 stadiums....those were the days.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:08 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 60

Everyone welcome Sid Hartman to the board!

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:18 PM by ajndsu Highlight this comment 61

And that Willie Mays and Ted Williams played for the Millers.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:22 PM by MATT Highlight this comment 62

Did somebody say Sid Hartman??? I have him remembering Halsey Hall thanks to the Pavek Museum.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:24 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 63

If you measured your speed in MPH and then Kilometers per hour, you wouldn't be going faster with the KPH, you'd be measuring it differently. The new electronic meters are likely more accurate, but should only be compared to other electronic metering data.

I don't think so. Sounds to me - and I have no dog in this fight - that it's more akin to measuring your speed with a stopwatch vs. a radar gun. You're saying the units are different, but that's not true.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:30 PM by strategery Highlight this comment 64

strategery,

You're analogy is better. The units are the same.

BUT...to use your analogy: If we're clocking the same pitcher, one with the watch, one with the radar gun...the guy's fastball didn't change, just how we measured it. He's not suddenly a better pitcher since the gun reads his fastball faster.

With this new radio measuring technique, the whole landscape has changed, so comparing old data with new data doesn't work.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:47 PM by Dale Highlight this comment 65

man, do I ever miss Herb Carneal

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 3:48 PM by Boof Highlight this comment 66

Wow truth hurts aren't you quick to draw generalizations about the people who post on this blog. This is especially surprising considering that the people who post on here are obviously interested and passionate about the Twins and the new ballpark and their postings reflect that. No one is writing any juvenile or confrontational posts on here that should even conjure such a reaction from you. Heaven forbid some people appreciate finding out about a piece of Twins history that perhaps is new to them since it was before their time. They may not know about the history between the two ballplayers shaking hands depicted in the old logo, but you obviously don't understand the meaning behind it since instead of extending a hand to new and younger Twins fans you instead give a slap to all those you feel are less knowledgeable then you. They are not the embarrassment to this blog, you are.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:06 PM by Hebrew Hammer Highlight this comment 67

Anyone not familiar with what my response is in regards to need only look about 10 posts up from this one. Absolutely insulting!

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:17 PM by Hebrew Hammer Highlight this comment 68

I think the point, re: electronic metering of radio, is that it measures everything that is being listened to - i.e. ambient radio (as mentioned in the article) that someone who used to keep a diary might neglect to record. And since that would be mostly music as ambient radio (in stores, at work, etc.), talk radio suffers (assuming that the previous diary holder wasn't recording that listening).

In summary, it is a different way to measure listening. A more acurate way. I don't know if the MLH/KPH is an acurate comparison, but there is definatly a diference between the old way and the new way, and I agree that you can't compare the old numbers to the new. At all. And in the end, that's the point.

Moose

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:24 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 69

Sounds like Truth must be having a bad day. We all succumb to a "you kids get off of my yard" post once in a while. (If you've never done it, get ready. It's coming. And, as suggested, Sid is the absolute master.)

I'm satisfied with the level of knowledge and discourse here. We all have things to learn and things to teach.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:28 PM by Rick 70

As for KSTP, my beef is they won't go HD. I had a long conversation a year or so ago with the station manager about this. He acts like its a fad and that nobody cares. Well, by the sound of it, you folks care. Those listening online would benefit by the better quality of sound. A good HD signal would do wonders locally, but it won't solve the station power issue, unless switching to a HD signal gives them a better all around range, which would take help of the FCC.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:34 PM by James Berka Highlight this comment 71

I'm not sure it's more accurate. These pagers record everything a listener is exposed to, while a diary records what the listener remembers.

In truth, neither method completely captures what advertisers really need to know, but I'm not sure what would. Advertisers just want their ads heard, and ratings theoretically help in making such decisions. But I spent a few years in radio and, let me tell you, sometimes the advertisers are just buying snake oil.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:34 PM by Rick 72

You'd think that DSP would take the All Star break to update his blog and advertise what the Twins are doing to lure the ASG to TF. Rick's photos show that they have at least thought of creating some marketing products.

Oh wait, I forgot, this is DSP we're talking about.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM by Eric Highlight this comment 73

It's not just KSTP Berka, this weeks British Open is broadcast by the BBC and the American stations that are covering it (TNT ABC) have to use their SD signal. The refuse to change to HD. ABC will at least be up converting the SD signal so we don't have those annoying black stripes on the side of the picture.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM by Eric Highlight this comment 74

KSTP not going to HD is unsurprising. The Hubbards have never seemed like ones to spend money on production. Compare the way channel 5 has long lagged behind 4 and 11 in terms of sets, graphics, and overall production on its newscasts.

I tend to listen to the Twins on XM rather than 1500. The only problem is XM uses the home team's broadcast only. That means going to the AM dial for the road games and the poor audio quality seems even more apparent for the away games.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 75

Here is Brauer's follow-up to the morning article on radio ratings.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:42 PM by Rick 76

And a final note.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:44 PM by Rick 77

Regarding Busch III's upper deck gap, I think that has something to do with the way it was built. The outer part of the 3rd Base grandstand was built last - because Old Busch was still on the site. (See pick at link)

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:48 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 78

Oh, and here's a cool time lapse film of Busch II's demolition and Busch III's construction.

Sure, they could have filled that gap in, but it's kinda part of both the design and the history of the site.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 4:53 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 79

Could we all just stop posting and please let 'butt hurts' I mean, 'truth hurts' post. PLEASE PLEASE bestow upon us your wealth geniusness! I em such an idiet i kant even spelt rite

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 80

I thought the "gap", also seen in parks like Cincinatti, Detroit and our own TF, was to separate "high priced" from "low priced" seats in the upper reaches.

I know we don't talk NHL here, but we do talk ballparks, click my name for the article proclaiming Fenway as the host for Winter Classic 2010. I'm beginning to think that TF is a more viable candidate for a Winter Classic here, than TCF Bank Stadium.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 5:14 PM by luke Highlight this comment 81

haha well put everyone toward truth hurts. does someone need a hug?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 5:31 PM by BB Highlight this comment 82

Luke, you're thinking of the moat. A gap(which TF does not have) is a literal break in the grand stand.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 6:17 PM by Eric in TX Highlight this comment 83

or this...

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 6:17 PM by Eric in TX Highlight this comment 84

Eric - I was thinking back to an old thread here (Finally found it, Click my name to go to it, called "One Topped off...") and the following comment:

"Going back to what David_Mpls was talking about WAY back at the beginning of this thread...

I was looking for the "hole" he was talking about and it made me take a closer look at the seating chart for TF. I always thought that the gap between sections R and S (Legends Club to Skyline Deck) was space that would be filled in. Now I see that it is essentially another moat seperating the "high end" seats from the other sections.

Am I the only one that thinks they are loosing some PRIME seats???

Also it seems there is no info about the Skyline Deck pricing. Are these going to be single game tickets only?

Thanks for the info.

Posted on June 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM by CSG Mike 102 "

That's where I was thinking "High end" from "low end"...

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 6:30 PM by luke Highlight this comment 85

That gap at GABP is rediculous, it serves no purpose whatsoever, and is ugly as hell.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 6:37 PM by dave mustaine Highlight this comment 86

Hey everybody, it's the frontman of "Megadeth" !
how did Mr. Mustaine find us here? lol.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 6:45 PM by luke Highlight this comment 87

Rick, Thank you for shedding your baseball insight upon the masses of imbeciles. Kids, here's something for you: Bruno was the Twins' right fielder during the 1987 championship season, not an Austrian in love with the donger. ("Automobile!?")

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 6:57 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 88

Rick,

Has "ignore" functionality been enabled for posts. I have a fresh candidate for my list.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:09 PM by Third Webcam Highlight this comment 89

The Truth Hurts, wow. You're cool. Thanks for joining us! Any particular reason for the harsh words? I can't wait to learn everything you know and someday be just like you! Cause ya know I have been a twins fan for all my life and gee, sorry guys, who is the Twins first baseman? I always forget. Silly me! :)

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:13 PM by BB Highlight this comment 90

wtf?

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:18 PM by I AM LUKE'S FATHER Highlight this comment 91

Welcome, Megadeth and fans!

If at any point you are asked to "turn down all that infernal racket", please be aware that this does not necessarily represent the views of management.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:26 PM by Rick 92

Third Webcam. It's called a question mark. It's down and to the right of the "L" key. Use your right pinky to reach it.

Now that that is out of the way.... We all know the Twins' front office has a reluctance for looking outside of AAA for help, but it's kind of frustrating that they--apparently--weren't interested in signing a guy like Pedro for $1 million, considering our starting five is a bit shaky right now. Call him a washed-up future hall of famer, but so is Favre, and Minnesota sports fans seem to be keen on him coming here. One million dollars just seems reasonable, especially if Pedro is healthy like he claims to be.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:28 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 93

who is Pedro? Enlighten us, please.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:35 PM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 94

Truthbag:

It's called a typo. Does it really detract from my sentiment??

Perhaps I was so taken aback that someone would actually troll in a ballpark blog that I had a momentary loss of motor function.

Oh, by the way, your mom just called. She wants you to get up to the kitchen. Your ramen is ready.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:40 PM by Third Webcam Highlight this comment 95

Mom jokes are old and worked over. Like your mom.

Let's try keeping this blog classy, huh guys? I think the Rickmeister would agree.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:47 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 96

/endcomedygold

Pot, meet kettle.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 7:59 PM by Third Webcam Highlight this comment 97

C'mon guys. Let's not turn anybody into a Tommy Herr, okay?

Back to the old school logo, I think I miss the days of the Minneapolis-St. Paul rivalry. I wasn't around for it, obviously, but I've read enough to know there was some serious hate between the two cities. In the early days, a lot of it was fueled by James J. Hill, who along with John Ireland ran St. Paul and didn't want anything to do with Minneapolis. After that, the real manifestation of the rivalry existed between the two baseball teams. Even Joe Mauer, when he first bought a town home, said that his dad wouldn't let him move to Minneapolis. Just think if both cities had been granted major league teams when the Western League broke up to become the AL? If only...

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 8:03 PM by The Legacy Highlight this comment 98

how apropos: angst and vitriol infect the blog when the ghosts of millers & saints are conjured... mwah-ha-ha!

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 8:22 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 99

hahaha well put Elston Gunn! haha oh truth hurts, arent you just a card?!?!?! bleh k i'm done :)

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 8:24 PM by BB Highlight this comment 100

@The Legacy,

I sure would love to see the dramatic, and they would be dramatic, differences between St. Paul and Minneapolis's ballparks. One can only imagine.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 8:25 PM by Andrew Highlight this comment 101

Luke - the Skyline seats on the Club level will have a seperate entrance from the Legends Club. There is no pricing on them because they are not sold as season tickets and the plans are not to sell them for individual games other than for group sales.

I suspect they are also the seats "reserved" for additional sales to Legends Club and Champions Club season ticket holders, but I don't know that for a fact.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 8:29 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 102

No, the Skyline seats are general public seats that do not have access to the Legends club, I thought they are single game only. I also am of the opinion that it isn't big enough to constitute being called a "gap." The gaps at other ballparks are way bigger and are generally in the entire facade.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 8:49 PM by Eric in TX Highlight this comment 103

I smell haves and have not seatting causing issues.....I also see food being different and possibly even bathrooms. Next thing will be third class for the steerage

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 9:29 PM by bw Highlight this comment 104

Truth Hurts - Comparing Favre to Pedro Martinez is laughable. For one, Pedro isn't better then all 5 of our starting pitchers. Favre, I would say IS better then our quarterbacks. Also the revenue generated by Favre (sellouts and jersey sales) would far exceed that of Pedro.

I for one am glad we did not bring in Pedro Martinez, the Twins bringing in washed up vets gets old after awhile.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM by MATT Highlight this comment 105

Eric in Tx - the Skyline seats may be "general public" in that they are not going to be sold as season tickets, but they are going to be sold to groups, not individuals. (Whether there will be day of game sales is unknown).

I also agree with you that this shouldn't be considered be a "gap" - it was clearly thought out and by design.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 10:27 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 106

I'm glad that both didn't get a team, well unless one was NL and one was AL but the cities are way too close

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 10:30 PM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 107

There's no way the metro could support two MLB teams, but 'tis interesting to think about a Mpls.-St. Paul rivalry. Though if Burnsville gets the Millers (crickets chirping) ...

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 11:22 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 108

BUTT HURTS,

THANK YOU THANK YOU FOR YOUR POSTS! PLEASE DISREGARD THESE IMBICILS WHO CLAIM TO BE TWINS FANS! LETS BOTH GO TOGETHER TO THE SPECIAL PLACE IN THE SEWER WHERE WE CAN BE ALONE AND REVEL IN OUR PUTRID UNBRUSHED TEETH AND FLABBY MAN BOOBS, TO A PLACE WHERE WE WILL NOT BE MADE FUN OF FOR OUR DECAYING AND IMPOTENT UNDERCARRIAGE, AND WHERE BEST OF ALL...WE WILL PLOT TO KILL BATMAN!

Posted on July 16, 2009 at 12:20 AM by THE PENGUIN (aka dirwin7) Highlight this comment 109

Is it just me, or does our great state seem a little... mis-shapen on that sign?

Posted on July 16, 2009 at 12:53 AM by Entensify Highlight this comment 110

The Saints played at Lexington Park in Saint Paul until they moved on to become another team then another Saints team moved in if you want a little history. And that Met stadium was built paid for and owned by the city of Minneapolis for a time even though it sat in Bloomington. And it was suggested to Calvin Griffith if he wanted to widen the fan base he might consider changing the name to the Minnesota Twins to attract fans outside of the metro area. I suppose I could go on with more trivia but is there a point. I doubt it. There are tons of people here who know plenty they just dont mention it. I would guess there are more Twins fans here than most anywhere else but its just a guess.

Posted on July 16, 2009 at 02:34 AM by Leroy Highlight this comment 111

enten, the misshapen outline of mn is by design.

all, responding to dinks on this blog only encourages them to post more.

Posted on July 16, 2009 at 2:10 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 112

huh?

Posted on July 28, 2009 at 6:52 PM by BULLDOG Highlight this comment 113

WTF?

Posted on December 12, 2009 at 4:59 PM by LUKE, I AM YOUR DAD (aka LUKE, I AM YOUR FATH) Highlight this comment 114

seriously WTF?

Posted on May 12, 2011 at 8:52 PM by bulldog Highlight this comment 115

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"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3042 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.





His body language might as well be the box score.






From the revised site plan, this is the configuration of Gate 34 Puckett.












Larry DiVito takes a last check of everything before the game starts



Love the LC!



Loading docks to the right, VIP entrances to the left.



Missing: imagination.



This is the plaza as viewed from the A ramp.



Integrating the administration building was really a great idea. Actually, there will be more things inside than just offices, but that will probably be some sweet space.



This is the staircase (ramp?) leading up to the trapezoid. Nice flagpole too. You'll be able to find me and Ben McEvers at the base of that flagpole on opening day in 2010!



Saturday afternoon, KMSP-HD 720P









The New as viewed from The Old.



This is where chain link is being replaced with fencing which matches the plaza









Limestone will cover this pretty soon, but for now you can see where the escalator is.



Impractical, expensive, undeniably cool (Angel Stadium, source LP)



Let's be honest and say that this promenade, which will face the HERC plant, won't be the most exciting part of the streetscape. It has to be provided for circulation reasons, but there won't be much to see unless vendors and other attractions take root here.



Even today, throw a fastball to that guy at your own risk.



Photo by Jared Wieseler






Seventh Street circulation



The moat walkway viewed from across the park.



A place to sit (does it look like a pitcher's mound to you?)






The old flour Gold Medal Flour Mill, located next to the new Guthrie theater (Source: RP)






Here you can see the real beauty of the Seventh Street side, and get a solid sense of why the overall design really works. The building's purpose is clearly visible, there are numerous connections from inside to outside, scale is nicely mitigated, the stone is attractively used, materials are pleasantly mixed and truly complementary. It's just a winner in so many ways.






A Hrbek tribute wall marks the end of the Carew side of the club






The proposed wooden screen covering the circulation ramp on Fifth Street (at left is the equivalent screen on Seventh Street).



Fabulous Fantasy









Frost on the pumpkins, snow on the plaza



Photo by Jeff Ewer (Click to enlarge.)









Glass!



Fifth Street louvers way up close



Now looking north, the tracks emerge from beneath Seventh Street as freight tracks only. The Northstar line ends at the northwest corner of the ballpark. One day, however, you can bet that other passenger trains will approach from the southwest metro on these tracks -- if our legislators are smart and persistent, that is.



Workers against green





Glossary

BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis
 


(1993)
 


First Edition (1992)
 


Second Edition (2006)
 


(2008)
 

Selected Bibliography - Surveys
 


(1975)
 


Second Edition (1987)
 


Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title
(2000)
 


(2000, large coffee table)
 


Original edition (2000, round)
 


Revised edition (2006, round)
 


(2001, medium coffee table)
 


(2002, small coffee table)
 


(2003, medium coffee table)
 


(2004, very large coffee table)
 


(2006, very large coffee table)
 


Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)
 

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia
 


(1992)
 


Book and six ballpark miniatures
(2004)
 

Complete Bibliography

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