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July Poking Around #2

July 10, 2009 11:50 PM

My walking tour, which took a total of about 90 minutes, continued around the HERC property and up Fifth Street. This is where the project suddenly seems like it's all about trains.


End of the line.

As you probably already know, the LRT tracks wrap around the HERC, coming to the end of the line seen above. It's pretty easy to imagine these tracks extended again along Olson Memorial Highway (Highway 55), maybe all the way out to Plymouth. That would be simply grand.


Storage tracks in the foreground.


Overview of the storage tracks.


These are storage tracks only, stretching roughly 900 feet past the end of the ballpark station, and Metro Transit will be pre-staging trains here during games. This will allow very fast response at the end of games, something which is much more difficult at the Metrodome. I'll cover this in more detail tomorrow.


Future station?

The maintenance building seen in the foreground of this photo is being considered for removal so that a separate platform can be built for the Central Corridor LRT. (This is the line which will run from the ballpark to Union Station in downtown St. Paul beginning in 2014.)

Central will use the same tracks as Hiawatha and then branch off after passing the Metrodome. The potential for confusion and loading problems makes it desirable to have a separate spot for loading Central trains, and that's just about the only place it could go.


Crosswalk taking shape.

The crosswalk at the northwest corner of the ballpark will be a pretty busy place, and it's getting a lot of signs and markings which are starting to appear.

I forgot to mention, from an earlier tour, that there is actually a sidewalk on the opposite side of the LRT tracks. It begins at a HERC parking lot and continues all the way to the ballpark station. Here's an image from May 20:


A sidewalk has sprouted between the HERC and the LRT tracks!

Up at the station, signage has started to appear.




The LRT station, sitting in a brand new urban canyon, takes shape.

The design of this station is actually pretty disappointing. It's by far the least imaginative along the line. This may have been intentional, either to save money or just not to upstage the ballpark. But here's hoping they upgrade this someday.

Northstar Platform

The other major rail project is also moving along rapidly. The station now has signage and kiosks.



Where you are, and where you can go.



The storage tunnel is barely visible at left behind that guy.



I find it curious that, in all the train-related signage, these stations are always referred to as the "Ballpark" stations, rather than the "Target Field" stations (which is found on the ballpark itself). That seems like something Target might have wanted as part of their naming deal, though I suppose it's not really something the Twins can give.

All-Star Guesswork

Let's take a quick detour and dig into the discussion which started in the comments yesterday about future locations for the All-Star game. It's an interesting subject, and since it's that time of year again, I thought it would be appropriate to do a little forecasting.


Items promoting the Twins 2014 All-Star Game bid. I got to bring one of these buckets home, and Noah got his first-ever taste of Cracker Jacks.

Looking back, since 1961 (when there were two All-Star games), the game has alternated between National and American League parks religiously except for 2006/2007, which were both in NL parks. (This article provides a lot of useful information on the subject.)

Technically, this means that the AL is down one. But I think you can make an good argument that, since there are two more teams in the NL, they get one extra ASG every 15 years. This is what I'll assume.

Closest to all of our hearts, of course, is the question of how likely the Twins are to get the nod in 2014. Well, the competition falls into a couple of categories.

Classic Ballparks
Dodger Stadium, waiting since 1980
Wrigley Field, waiting since 1990

Of these two, keep in mind that Los Angeles will have just hosted one across town in 2010.

New Ballparks
Washington Nationals, waiting since 1969 (or 2005, if you prefer)
Minnesota Twins, waiting since 1985
Cincinnati Reds, waiting since 1988
San Diego Padres, waiting since 1992
Philadelphia Phillies, waiting since 1996
New York Yankees, waiting since 2008

The Nationals are sort of a special case because there was an ASG in Montreal in 1982. But this is more about the hosting city than it is about the hosting ballclub. The 1969 game was at RFK, with the Senators (Rangers) as host. Still, Washington has to be near the top of any list.

But if you assume that 2014 has to be an AL team, the Twins are easily at the top of the list.

A final category is those teams who will probably need a new ballpark before they see another ASG:

Ballparks Needed
Oakland Athletics, waiting since 1987
Toronto Blue Jays, waiting since 1991
Florida Marlins, waiting since 1993 (have never hosted)
Tampa Bay Rays, waiting since 1998 (have never hosted)

The Marlins have the edge here because their park will open in 2012. The Blue Jays may have to settle for (and may even prefer) renovation. The A's and Rays are probably looking at 2014 for ballpark openings at the earliest.


2014 Twins ASG promo bat.

So, putting this all together, I come up with a schedule through 2026 that looks like this:

2009 (NL) St. Louis
2010 (AL) Los Angeles (Angel Stadium)
2011 (NL) Arizona
2012 (AL) Kansas City
2013 (NL) New York (Citi Field)
2014 (AL) Minnesota
2015 (NL) Washington
2016 (AL) Toronto (assumes renovation circa 2012)
2017 (NL) Los Angeles (Dodger Stadium)
2018 (AL) Tampa Bay (assumes new ballpark circa 2014)
2019 (NL) Cincinnati
2020 (AL) Oakland (assumes new ballpark circa 2014)
2021 (NL) Chicago (Wrigley Field, post-renovation or rebuild)
2022 (NL) San Diego
2023 (AL) Baltimore
2024 (NL) Miami
2025 (AL) Texas
2026 (NL) Philadelphia

There is a bit of a glut of new ballparks which need to be accommodated. 2014 rightfully belongs to the Twins, but some other clubs will have to wait a decade or more before their new ballparks are seen in the mid-summer classic. We can be glad that it looks like we won't have to wait that long.

Some Stragglers

After this batch, I'm roughly one third of the way through the pictures I took yesterday. There's much more to come, with relevant discussion along the way.


Two signs visible from beyond the confines of the ballpark.


Still some work to be done on the canopy.


That's some scary-ass scaffolding, if you ask me.


The view from the corner of Ford Centre. (Feel free to tie up your boats here.)


Not much facade left to be finished at this point.


This is one complicated streetscape.


Ahh. Lunch in the admin building...

See you tomorrow for a break in the tour for some serious train talk.


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the no photo policy is pretty obvious to me. The we want to save the 'a ha' moments is kind of just a cover to not make mortensen seem like a bunch of jerks. No construction company wants you walking around their worksite taking pictures, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen. With rules and regs on worksites, construction companies are continually worried about getting fines from the gov't/OSHA, flak from unions for unsafe work environments, and also their image to potential prospective customers, and much more. Having an open photo policy means when someone gets a photo of something being done wrong, they are caught red handed, they would need to be worried at all times about everything being perfect and honest, having been in the construction business, for even the best companies, this is rarely the case. I'm sure they aren't even thrilled about the webcam, but they can't do anything that. It's a bummer, but it's a reality. The are just covering their ass.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 01:57 AM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 1

thanks rick! top notch as usual. do you (or anyone for that matter) know if they will be covering the back of the scoreboard with the same material they are using to build the canopy?


Posted on July 11, 2009 at 02:47 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 2

Looking back, since 1961 (when there were two All-Star games), the game has alternated between National and American League parks religiously except for 2006/2007, which were both in NL parks. (This article provides a lot of useful information on the subject.)

Why would you just look back to '61 (because that's when the Twins moved to Minnesota)? They started hosting the thing in 1933. I'll give you that the NL hosted an unusually high number of AS Games in the '30's and '40's, but the real rotation started in 1953 (after the '50-'51 back-to-back AL dates, the NL hosted back-to-back - Philly and Cincy). Even the two a year for four years ends up with four games for each league.

Technically, this means that the AL is down one.

Well, technically the AL is down seven (the NL hosted 10 early games between 1934 and '49 while the AL only hosted 4 (don't forget - no AS game in 1945) - then add on your extra game for '06 or '07...)

Now - all that out of the way, my problems with your list. NY just had the AS game. No way I want to see the Mets get it as soon as 2015. They can surely wait until 2017 (and that's even 9 years between AS games for New York - too soon IMHO.

You bang on how the AL's been shafted, yet don't ever give them back-to-back AS games in your list? Why not bump the Twins to 2013 and give the Cubs 2014 for Wrigley's 100th? That preserves KC, gives the AL back-to-back, gives Wrigley a nice birthday present and shifts NY out of the spotlight. Seems like a good idea to me (but then again, I'm a Cubs fan, what do I know? ;) )

And, baring any of that, I'd rather see Washington get a game before NY for sure. Not sure how or why you put the Mets ahead (attendance?) of the Nat's, but like I said before, the Yankees just had the game last year. NY doesn't need the game again for a while...


Posted on July 11, 2009 at 07:25 AM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 3

If the All Star Game continues to matter for home field in the World Series, they'd better keep rotating them evenly between AL and NL parks (and hence AL and NL rules).

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 07:56 AM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 4

Dirwin, I think you're exactly right about that. If I remember correctly somone got video during the Shea stadium demolition of a worker doing somethign highly dangerous. Work stopped at the site for a few days, though nothing that I'm aware of made the news.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 08:22 AM by Camden Highlight this comment 5


When the all-star game was held at parks that had two tenants, MLB has made it clear what league would be designated the host:

When it was in St. Louis at Sportsman's Park in 1940, the National League was the host league, the American League "hosted" in 1948. Shibe Park in Philadelphia hosted in 1943 and 1952. The AL was the home league for the 1st one, the NL the home league for the 2nd.

Thus, according to the 2007 ESPN Sports Almanac, and taking into account recent games in San Francisco, New York and this year's games in St. Louis, it's 40-40 in terms of host sites by leagues.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 08:39 AM by Pikachu Highlight this comment 6

chu - Interesting. I looked at a website that gave the opposite info. No reason to doubt ESPN though, as the site I was looking at was a bit more suspect.

Anyway, Rick and I ended up both wrong (Rick having the NL ahead one, I having them ahead 7). Either way, there is precedent for having back-to-back AS games hosted by one league. The Chicago/Detroit ('50-'51) thing was done to celebrate the sesquatenial of the city of Detroit. Unfortunatly, San Fran hosted in celebration of Barry Bonds (I'd bet they wish they had that choice back). Since that precedent has been set, I see no reason that celebrations (100th aniversary's of ballparks) can't be used as a reason to host an AS game.

Also, on this topic, I keep hearing that the Twins "deserve" the 2014 game, and that, "they are the only ones to have asked for it." Really, how often do you hear about the team that is petitioning for an AS game, especially outside your own city? I know that I may be walking into a firestorm here (a Cubs fan on a "Twins" board, but be objective. The Twins will get an AS game. Soon. Much sooner than they would have staying in the Dome. What difference does it really make if it's a year earlier, or a year or two later?


Posted on July 11, 2009 at 09:00 AM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 7


The games through 2013 are already set (Citi Field is already on the "official unofficial" schedule).

I used 1962 because 1961 and before was a different format for several years (there were two games, one in an AL park, and one in an NL park) and I doubt that anyone is trying to make up anything from before that (especially because the rules weren't different between leagues in that era).

I don't consider the AL "down one" for the reason given: the NL has two more teams and is thus entitled to 16 out of every 30 years (or 8 out of every 15, an extra game every 15 years).

My (unstated) premise is that the commissioner's office, in awarding these, has to follow some pretty strict seniority rules. Maybe I should have stated what I think those are. Don't have time right this minute to do it.

So, while we can say what we'd like to "see" or "not see", I think the decisions are not arbitrary and can therefore be anticipated out about as far as I went.

And, of course, I could be full of sh!t.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 09:03 AM by Rick 8

2013 is set? Might want to tell Cincinnati (click name - the most recent news article I could find. Everything Mets/Citi is dated 2008)...


Posted on July 11, 2009 at 09:10 AM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 9

In my opinion Cincy or Washington should have had it in 2013. New York can wait a bit until having another Mid-Summer Classic. Five years is far too close together for a single city. I have similar reservations about Kauffman. That would be two in MO in a span of three years. Once again they should space that out a bit and get more newer stadiums some dates.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 09:25 AM by Camden Highlight this comment 10

the assertion that the no-photo policy is employed to limit potential lawsuits sounds like a load of perquackey to me.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 09:32 AM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 11

Photos of trees on the plaza linked here...

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 09:59 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 12

great, as always Rick.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 10:14 AM by luke Highlight this comment 13

My question yesterday was buried under some massive posts -

Is there going to be a ticket-exchange program for season ticket holders next year?

Also, regarding the light rail - if they build a separate station at the ballpark for the Central Corridor LRT, does that mean they'll have to duplicate all the existing downtown LRT stations, before the Central Corridor line splits off?

Great pictures, BTW

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 10:26 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 14

expec - no just at the ballpark where large crowds will demand it.

near as i can tell, they will piggyback until the dome, and then go off on a separate route.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM by CJ Highlight this comment 15

If I were running the Twins, I'd actually prefer to host the All Star Game more around 2019 or so. The club will likely hit its peak season ticket level during the first season of Target Field and then see the totals drop off unless there is a World Series related spike. Some folks find that they don't want the expense or that it's too many games. The novelty of the park being brand new will also wear off. Whatever the case, after a decade or so in the park, the Twins will need something to boost season ticket sales and retain existing customers, especially if the team declines and is not competitive. The promise of guaranteed All Star Game tickets would be a natural hook. Having the event in 2014 or 2015 would be nice, but the season ticket base won't have declined enough that the team would absolutely need it. 2019 or 2020 would make much more sense to the bottom line.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 10:58 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 16


I haven't heard this theory before, but it makes some good sense. Some of the photos I've been asked to take down contained no a-ha spoilers, but still rubbed somebody the wrong way. Looking back at them, it's clear that working conditions were visible, and it could be that there was something pictured which means nothing to us, but does to some lawyer somewhere. I think that's quite plausible.


I'm not a STH, so I don't know what's in place now. But I suspect that whatever they have now will carry over. Maybe some STH on here has more info.

As for the Central LRT, it will use the same tracks/stations from Target Field to the Metrodome and then split off. What they are considering at the Target Field end would be an exception to make it easier to handle the large crowds.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 11:06 AM by Rick 17

I haven't really heard much about what the twins and gophers moving out of the dome will mean for the vikings. Will the team get to customize it a little more since they are the only tenant?

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 11:26 AM by Deenels Highlight this comment 18

dirwin7 - I don't think I would have phrased it quite like you did, but your post is closer to the truth than most. Look at the larger picture and take it to the extreme level and you have the correct answer.

As for the question on STH ticket exchange program - yes, there will be one. As of a couple weeks ago, the details hadn't been worked out from what I've been told. If the Twins continue to limit the exchange for games to a few specific dates, this may not work well, given the significant reduction in inventory from the Dome and what little is left in Target Field on the lower level. An an STH, I would love to see the Twins adopt a plan like the Rockies have, which is one of the most flexible (if not the most) in the majors. The primary component of the plan allows you to swap an unplayed game for the STH value of the ticket for any seating area in the park for a future game (so you could trade a $50 seat straight up for another $50 seat or for 2 $25 seats), except for opening day and premium games. (Think of using your unused tickets as Flex tickets).

Perhaps complicating things is the Flex plans themselves, which will be grandfathered in to existing Flex plan owners (one for Field Box and one for Home Plate View). Given what little is left in Field Box, I don't think I would take that plan, unless the Twins blocked off some rows that I missed, but the HPV still looks like a nice option for those on the Flex plan. My opinion is that the value will be reversed from the Dome - the HPV plan will be better than the Upper Club plan and the existing Lower Reserved plan is better than the Field Box plan.

I'm curious to see what the playoff ticket picture will be with the 40 and 20 game plans. It doesn't seem that there is enough seating in Diamond and Field Box levels to allow each partial STH to buy a full strip for the postseason. I don't know how far along seat selection is for the 20 game plans, but it still looks like they might be able to do it for the 3xx level, especially since 310/311 and the rightfield sections are reserved from being sold in season ticket plans.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 11:51 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 19

One thing I forgot to mention about my visit the other day: I asked about how much like "Levine's Moat" in NYS the separation between the Home Plate Box and Dugout Box areas was going to be and mentioned that I hoped the Twins would allow fans down into the DB area for some portion of pre-game autograph seeking, pictures, etc. and avoid the bad press that the Yankees got. This seemed like it sounded to be a new issue (reading between the lines, I got the impression the current plans were no access unless you had a DB ticket).

I hope the Twins find a way to balance the exclusive nature of the DB seats with the desire of the fans to get close to the field and the players. I suspect they will, given that the very next comment was how the Twins strive to be fan and family friendly, which led to the family section discussion.

(BTW Rick - great pictures. I wasn't up to a walking tour and had to settle for some from a taxi and the roof of the parking ramp. If my daughter ever gives me the camera, I'll get them up this weekend.)

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 12:05 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 20

Interesting post jfh. Just outta curiosity, how many seats do you have for next year at TF?

I will be interested to see if all these new STHs the last few years continue to operate as amateur ticket brokers/scalpers with their copious amounts of extra tickets. Let's face it 81 games is way too many for about 95% of people. Look at what has happened this year with tickets. There are boatloads being held by the scalpers as you approach the Dome. There used to be a premium to be paid if you walked up on gameday and wanted to buy a Red Sox or Yankees ticket. Not this year, in fact, they are getting pennies on the dollar because there are so many seats/tickets available (even in the best seat locations). I mean you would have to be bat shit crazy to walk up to the box office and buy your tickets from the Twins (for full price and more than that if you get them online with all the bullshit "convenience" fees they tack on) when you can get better seats for much less cash from the 40+ scalpers hanging around the LRT station or the Triangle in front of Huberts.

I am know the demand for tickets will greatly increase next season and rightfully so. But what about the questionable weather in April or September games? Will all the new STHs have a bunch of new friends come April 12th, 2010 or will those extra ducats find there way to the street on the secondary market? All those folks will still have their extra tickets...

Just a few musings on this gorgeous July afternoon.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 12:12 PM by Max Highlight this comment 21

At what point does the Met Council rename the LTR lines after colors? Hiawatha, Central, the commuter rails (plus the future Southwest and Northwest) will start to get confusing to those unfamiliar with the system.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 12:45 PM by downfall Highlight this comment 22

I haven't really heard much about what the twins and gophers moving out of the dome will mean for the vikings. Will the team get to customize it a little more since they are the only tenant?

The Vikes want out of the Dome in the worst way. The stadium has no long term future. Either they'll get a new one here (please, I hope and pray!!!) or they'll move to another city (something that would be like a knife through my heart). So while they might do something minor like grabbing the Twins' former offices for some gameday operations and hospitality, there aren't likely to be many significant improvements.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 1:04 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 23

downfall - i agree. they need to be naming these lines by either color or number/letter. naming them after obscure geographical or cultural references is going to confuse a lot of people (both locals and those visiting). this is why i agree with changing the names of the minneapolis international airport terminals to terminal 1 and terminal 2, rather than humphrey and lindbergh. while those are nice historical references it is easier when something goes by a number/letter or color.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 1:53 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 24

"Not this year, in fact, they are getting pennies on the dollar because there are so many seats/tickets available (even in the best seat locations). I mean you would have to be bat shit crazy to walk up to the box office and buy your tickets from the Twins (for full price and more than that if you get them online with all the bullshit "convenience" fees they tack on) when you can get better seats for much less cash from the 40+ scalpers hanging around the LRT station or the Triangle in front of Huberts."

Very interesting perspective. One that I haven't noticed or even tried to pay any attention to (I always already have tickets as I approach the Dome and just ignore the scalpers). But, I have noticed that there are always a great many open seats in lower club that either fill in very late or not at all - often at games for which there is no "good" tickets available on-line or via phone, box office, etc. So --- the above comments make sense, I guess. Has anyone else noticed this?

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 1:54 PM by B.W. McEvers Highlight this comment 25

Yes i have noticed it every game this year i have been too, 50 scalpers atleast working ad ready to dump them as fast as poss, anything from cheap seats to the rich seats and below face,, closer to first pich you can sit anywhere for cheap.. wait one inning and you can sit next to polads bones for 10 bucks

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 2:33 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 26

One of the options for the the next light rail line (Southwest Transitway) is to have it come around HERC from the south (where the staging tracks are today), and continue on downtown along the same tracks as Hiawatha does and Central Corridor will.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 3:11 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 27

That's the way it's always been. What I wonder is if the scalpers are getting significantly less than premium or face an hour before first pitch (when people like me show up) or if they are doing business as usual even though the competition has heated up. At first pitch the other night there were vast stretches of open seats behind the plate. Are the scalpers holding all of those? And, if so, why wouldn't they be dumping inventory earlier? Can someone offer a primer on what scalpers are up to for those of who are not wise to their ways?

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 3:21 PM by B.W. McEvers Highlight this comment 28

Max - I have 5 (2+3) seats next year, full season (before anyone asks, my ticket group is full).

You are correct - 81 games is near impossible to get to, but most peopleI know do what I do - set up a ticket group and split them at cost, not become amateur ticket brokers. Besides, if you a good group of people, it's a lot less work from year to year.

I suspect there are more tickets on the secondary market this year primarily because of the priority process for Target Field seating. Some doubled up this year so they could increase ADV to improve priority and/or double up again on seats for 2010. I know one STH who got extra seats he doesn't need this year to do just that and saw numerous "selling full/half season" posts on CL earlier this year.

I moved from a partial plan to full season, just because I wanted to be aligned for Dugout Box and/or Home Plate Box (and since those were full season plans anyway). Turned out to be a good move, as the partial plan ticket locations turned out to be far worse in TF than I would have expected, but required the work to set up a ticket group since I can't go to all 81 games and I didn't want to lose money selling to a broker (not that I would any way).

I didn't like the Twins policy to allow STHs to double up next year and suspect this may contribute to the glut this year (and maybe next). I've already seen one person/group that seems to control 30+ seats in all areas of TF looking to sell ticket packages of 5-20 games at 50%-300% markups (e.g. $10 seats for $45, $55 seats for $175 and $50 seats for $80 and up). This is just wrong. It's one thing to sell occasional games as an STH to recoup costs; it's something entirely different to scalp 75-80 games.

And the doubling up effecively screwed some STHs with 2-8 years seniority because some with higher priority them them took 4 seats rather than 2 or 8 rather than 4, relegating other STHs to worse seats than they might have otherwise reasonably expected. I've met some 8-10 year STHs that are very disappointed with what they had available at seat selection time.

The MLB/StubHub deal killed the legit secondary market for STHs. This used to be great - the STH could sell unwanted tickets and recoup cost, the team could resell them at a slight markup and a fan could get great seats and still pay less than box office. Now, with an STH using SH, if the STH prices the tickets just to break even, the buyer ends up paying cost + 15% sellers premium + 10% buyers premium + $17 for shipping. Only StubHub wins.

I can't imagine ever buying tickets off the street, primarily because I want to know where I'm sitting before I go to a game. Brokers/scalpters seem to pay 30%-60% of season ticket cost and get closer to 100% only if the seats are REALLY good. I just don't see why STHs go that route rather than forming ticket groups with real fans.

Going back to another conversation, I suspect if the Twins had a more flexible ticket exchange program, there would be less reselling. But then again, they don't really have any incentive to do so - once a season ticket package is sold and the revenue booked, they don't really care if the ticket is used (except for loss concession revenue), since attendance is usually tickets sold, not tickets issued or bodies through the gate (not sure how the Twins count attendance).

I like to see fans in seats, so I don't like those that have tickets just to resell or scalp. I was stunned to see so many empty seats at the Yankees game last Tuesday and have seen the same thing at other games this year where seats you wouldn't expect to be open are.

If we are lucky, most of those that bought extra seats for 2010 will drop those in subsequent years to the natural STH upgrade process can occur and more good seats can be available for true fans that want partial or full season packages or to upgrade what they already have. Although I doubt it will happen, I hope those that bought extra seats to get rich in 2010 get stuck holding the bag.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 4:47 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 29

(By the way Rick - great update!)

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 5:04 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 30

I went down to the park today and just gawked at it. I love the view from 4th st coming into downtown. I thought the limestone on the press-box looked real impressive. I can't wait to get inside this park!

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 5:16 PM by MATT Highlight this comment 31

The question about the Dome after the Twins and Golphers made me also think... What will it mean to Mike Lynns cut of profits from the private boxes? (I had read in the past, somewere in the neighborhood of 400,000.00 a year) And also on the airport signs, Why can't they just put a terminal one designation on the exsisting lindberg sign and vise versa on the Humphrey terminal 2 sign?

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 5:17 PM by hans Highlight this comment 32

I see that the coils for field warming are starting to be installed in right field. (On the web cam it looks like a white field)

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 5:20 PM by hans Highlight this comment 33

Oops, forgot to ask, Does any one know if the coils will be electric or hot water/steam heat from the Herc for the field?
( Dido on jfh's post, Great Pic's Rick!!)

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 5:26 PM by hans Highlight this comment 34

What I wonder about (and please bear with me) ---

Tonight's game is a perfect example. We wanted to go but were just flat unable to acquire the sort of tickets we prefer through the normal process (I have flex vouchers I like to use). Now, I would be willing to bet that there will be many, many open seats between the bases (lower club / diamond view) at game time (at the Yankees games it WAS stunning indeed) and there will be plenty of blue in those areas well into the game. So, where are/were those tickets? Would I have gotten a "good" deal from a scalper at 4:30?

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 5:34 PM by B.W. McEvers Highlight this comment 35

On the picture with the caption "The LRT station, sitting in a brand new urban canyon, takes shape", it looks like the wood louvers are on the circulation ramp next to the admin. building...

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 6:10 PM by Tom OG Highlight this comment 36

Nope. No louvers yet on either side. The boat must be lost at sea somewhere. It just looks like they're there because of the extreme angle of the photo.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 6:42 PM by Rick 37

Yes, I think we should use numbers for the rail lines as well. There's only 1 currently and will be at most 3 in the coming few years. It's way to confusing for us morons. Just like it's way too confusing for the thousands of morons who can't tell the difference between the Lindbergh and Humphrey terminals of the airport. In fact, I'm even confused by Minneapolis and St. Paul. Let's just call it city A and city B to make it easier.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 7:10 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 38

There are some new pics of the interior of target field in the TWINS chat section of KFAN.COM, if anyone is interested.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 7:52 PM by PA's EYEBROW Highlight this comment 39

PA's EYEBROW- Is it really that difficult to post a link? (click my name for the page he refers to).

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 8:22 PM by ace Highlight this comment 40

thanks for picking up the slack posting the link ace.
good photos, but I think Rick has an upper hand when it comes to photos of TF.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 9:25 PM by luke Highlight this comment 41

Nothing "interior" about those photos either. Not that they are bad, but they show only things that are visible from skyways, streets, and parking ramps.

Right now, of course, that's all that anybody can get. But for a minute there I got my hopes up...

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 10:06 PM by Rick 42

man, i wanted to jump through the tv set tonight and ring that home plate umpire's (hahn) neck! he completly f-ed over the twins in the top of the 6th when he gave dye ball ball on what was definitely strike three and out number three. his idea of balls and strikes was insane. i have seen him get destroyed by other team's managers because the guy's game calling is atrocious. wish gardy would have went out there just to blow off some steam. then thome gets a messed up, broken bat blooper double that cleared the bases on the very next pitch. that was the difference. let's get them tomorrow.

also, punto better be gone soon or after the season. what a liability for a team who is getting zero production from the bottom of their line-up. wonder why we can't make up any ground in the standings. if he is back with this team next year then i am returning my season tickets! well, maybe. :-)

any punto apologists out there need to take a look in the mirror because the guy is not worth it regardless of defense.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 11:05 PM by Chicago Blows Goats Highlight this comment 43

Enjoyed the KFAN photos - always good to get updates. The stone accents throughout the seating bowl look great now - I think they'll look spectacular set against all the dark green seats.

Speaking of the seats - on the "seat by section" link of the Twins official TF site (link attached), you see the various seat styles/colors. Are the Lay-z-boys in the Champion's Club and Suites really going to be that almost-Turquoise color? I do like the 'bare wood' look of the Legend's Club seatbacks.

Also - I wonder if press box occupants will be able to track fly balls better than at the Metrodome. I know Bremer has said it will be an improvement, but it looks as if they're still sort of tucked under an overhang.

Keep up the great work, Rick. Between this site and the construction webcams, and contemplating what it will feel like watching a game in this new park on a night like tonight, I'm having a bitch of a time getting stuff done at work.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 11:05 PM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 44


I live in chicago where all the lines are named by color. The fact that I live next to the brown line/red line doesn't tell me where it goes or gives me any information, if you are new to the transit system you need to look at the map, whatever they are named, personally I think it's good mpls is naming them something that might mean something.


You have great posts, I am just wondering why you're here, the cubs have blogs just like this, are you a twinks fan too?

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 45

dirwin7 - moose is from chicago originally, but now lives in northern minnesota. in bemidji i think. he appears to be a cub fan first and a casual twin fan second. i could be wrong about any allegiance to the twins, but like i said "it appears that way". i will stop speaking for moose now! ;-)

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 11:29 PM by Betaband (aka Chicago Blows Goats) Highlight this comment 46

The Champions Club seats are definately dark green. Very nice looking.

Posted on July 11, 2009 at 11:58 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 47


I knew that was you,

and the game was pretty full 2night....for a change...

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 02:00 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 48

My girlfriend showed me this spot on Ridgeway parkway today that has a great view of town from the north, and off to the right i could see the scoreboard, adding to the already amazing skyline

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 03:06 AM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 49

kevin in az,

The trains do have route numbers, just like the buses. The current line is Route 55.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 07:37 AM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 50

David, I think his point is that they should have some sort of designation that makes it easier for out of towners and those locals unfamiliar with the system.
New York, DC and those places that have massive transit systems refer to them as "Red" line or "Blue" line...stuff like that.
Of course, Minneapolis/St Paul only has the one, but come 2011...we'll have the Northstar and the Hiawatha and Central running, with Southwest on the way. It'll get confusing before too long.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 07:46 AM by luke Highlight this comment 51

BW - yup - you could buy from a scalper at the locations mentioned before the game. Or just plan ahead. White Sox series is gonna be popular. I called in my Flex weeks two weeks ago for today's game to get something decent. They better win today. :)

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 08:30 AM by Jax Highlight this comment 52

p.s. Rick, great pictures and commentary as always - thank you for all you do!

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 08:31 AM by Jax Highlight this comment 53

Dirwin - Beta is *mostly* correct. I am from Chicago (born and raised in the western suburbs, Downers Grove to be specific), but have lived in Bemidji for the last 10 years (plus have lived in International Falls and Grand Forks, ND - close enough to MN). We had Cubs season tickets as a kid, and I have a Cubs tattoo on my left leg, so I'm not giving that up any time soon (my grandma had two things on her coffin when she was burried - a photo of her, and her floppy Cubs hat - that give you an idea of what the team means to my family?)

As to why I'm here - the primary reason is that I'm a ballpark junkie. As I've noted, I've been to 21 MLB ballparks, and by the end of this month, that number will be 25 (adding new Yankee Stadium, Nationals Park, Citizens Bank Park and Citi Field on a ballpark tour I leave on a week from Tuesday - click my name for the tour itinerary - one opening left, BTW!). The other reason is that I work at the Twins affiliate here in Bemidji, KBUN-AM 1450 (actually, I'm the Sports Director of the station). My interest in the Twins is passing at best, but folks expect me to know how they're doing (and have an opinion), but I don't usually turn them on unless there's nothing else on.

As to the Dome, I hate it. My ballpark tour actually ends there, and I'm skipping the game (7/31 vs. the Angels - I'll actually be outside the Dome that day, lugging my suitcase to the LRT to go back to my hotel near the MOA to pick up my car) because I see no reason to go to "one last game" there. Been there, done that. Now, if this were next year, I would certainly go to the game at Target Field. The other thing is that I can get free tickets (Twins, Gophers, Wild, Vikings, college sports around the state - Bemidji State, St. Cloud State, etc.) when ever I want, so if I change my mind later, I can go.

Any other questions?


Posted on July 12, 2009 at 10:53 AM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 54

Jax ---

I do plan ahead --- but that doesn't always work out well and last night was the perfect example (I needed an odd number of seats - 3 - which didn't help). I know I could have gone down there and negotiated with a scalper but was not sure how that would turn out so did not go. I hate to sound like a complete rube in this area but I guess that's what I am. So, my question remains --- how would I have fared with a scalper on "good" seats an hour or so before game time? Or, put another way, what were my chances of finding a decent deal (close to face) on good seats without waiting until first pitch or later? I'm just looking for a general sense from those who have a better one than I.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 11:18 AM by B.W. McEvers Highlight this comment 55

David it is true they have route numbers, but usually it isn't labeled as so.
The signs still say just Hiawatha,the stations should say something like "55 Hiawatha" Instead of just on the trains, cuz as Luke pointed out by 2011 or 2014 (which is the year i heard the yeah Central Corridor is to be completed by). We will have many lines then add in Red Rock Line, Southwest Corridor, and all the others it will get confusing, even for locals. The talk of all this public transportation makes me giddy. I really hate driving and cars (although i do love my car) but anyway this is getting off topic sorry heh

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 11:21 AM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 56

With the expanding rail lines there is only one way to organize the system. Have colored lines. Hiawatha line = blue line, Central = red line, Southwest = green line and so on.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 11:28 AM by PJ Highlight this comment 57

Any word when the wood louvers are going up?

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 12:59 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 58


DG?!? Really? My wife (Pastor Vic) was born and raised in Downers Grove. It's always our base of operations when we get to Wrigley (not nearly as often now that we have kids).

LRT Commenters,

I strongly suspect that there will be additional visual cues as to which train belongs to which line. But giving the lines color designations instead of names wouldn't really solve the problem. It's going to take a number of different cues, which I believe they have already planned.

In that regard, it's completely absurd to think that changing the airport terminals from names to numbers is going to solve anything. In fact, if you look at the stats, it's something like less than half a percent of people have gone to the wrong terminal. It's essentially a solution in search of a problem. But making the proposed change essentially guarantees that the number of mistakes will jump dramatically -- ergo, problem found.

The real problem (if there is one) is with the airlines not showing the pertinent info on all boarding passes. It's NOT the signage. I don't know much about the MAC, but the change they are pondering now is the definition of dumb.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM by Rick 59


The louvers are still apparently on a boat somewhere.

If I had to guess, because it's wood, they'll wait till next spring to install these if they can. It will save one winter's worth of wear and tear.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 1:08 PM by Rick 60

I think the terminal name change thing is absurd as well. I'm a local, and I don't even know one terminal from the I can't remember which is the big one and which is the small one. So, in a few years, the MAC is gonna spend a couple million again on signs trying to make it easier still.
You're probably right about the LRT/Commuter train cues too. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. But, as you said, the Metro Council probably has it all planned out...

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 1:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 61

Rick - DG all the way 'til I went to college. Did your wife go to North or South? My Dad taught (and I attended) Industrial Tech (wood shop, auto, drafting, photography) at North from the early '70's until 2001. I graduated back in '93. Small world, 'eh?


Posted on July 12, 2009 at 1:47 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 62

can someone tell me, what is the difference between the canopy, and the "sun shade"? aren't they one in the same?

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 3:17 PM by luke Highlight this comment 63


Posted on July 12, 2009 at 3:54 PM by I AM LUKES FATHER Highlight this comment 64

Luke - yes, they are the same.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 4:08 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 65

I have to admit that when things TF related are going slow i just wait on a Luke post , then look right below and see yall attack.. it gets me thru my boring days! thanks Luke and family!

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 4:37 PM by Mazarairic i just k Highlight this comment 66

that was mine, sorry i messed up my name

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 4:38 PM by mazaratirick (aka Mazarairic i just k) Highlight this comment 67

You think it's clever like that, do you? Talking about Downers Grove and airport terminals and using words like louvre and Hiawatha? Ooohh what's next? A romp around the room while the music goes oomph-oomph-oomph-oomph-oomph-oomph-oomph-oomph-oomph?

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 5:02 PM by Stewie Griffin Highlight this comment 68 honest question vs. a misspelled username.

wonder who wins that one, ay?

anyway, thanks jfh for the answer...i know i had heard both terms before, just wasn't sure if they were two different elements.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 5:33 PM by luke Highlight this comment 69

Does anyone have any updated pictures of the model.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 6:19 PM by firedog Highlight this comment 70

yay! the twins have new pics! hopefully this link works, its my first time

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 7:09 PM by Deenels Highlight this comment 71

they're actually not ALL that spectacular...

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 7:12 PM by Deenels Highlight this comment 72

i'm not sure why, but chicago's light rail lines being named after colors is just annoying cuz being from mpls, how the heck am i supposed to know which lines from the west go north and which go to the cell? it would make just as much sense to me to name them after vegetables for pete's sake.

as for our's, it would suck if the northstar became "the blue line" or something like that. commuter rail lines have to stay as they are (northstar, red rock, rush line, etc). those are sweet names. i think it would be ok to name the light rail lines after letters, though; the hiawatha line would be "the h"; the central line would be "the c" and so on.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 7:18 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 73

klye - you could look at a map.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 74

firedog - I'll have model pictures posted later tonight

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 8:09 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 75

it looks like the twins just recycled old pics for their update...lame

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 8:21 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 76

yeah, the pix were OK. nothing really spectacular as deenels said.

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 9:51 PM by luke Highlight this comment 77

Ever since Mauer started practicing for the HR derby, he's been horrible at the plate. TIME TO STOP!!!!

Posted on July 12, 2009 at 10:08 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 78

sure would make sense, though alex b., to have the "near north side line" or the "midway line" in chicago. seems to make sense to me. likewise people could look at a map here of where the hiawatha line is or the humphrey terminal is. i just think it's dumb to change the names to something innoccuous for both the terminals and light rail lines. (ok you hit a nerve...)

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 12:04 AM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 79

I visited the Twins new ballpark project office last week. Click on the link for a Flickr album of some of the pictures from the visit, primarily of the updated Target Field model. (Pictures taken July 8, 2009).

There are a few of the sales center and of exterior of the ballpark itself.

(Rick, if you want to use any of the larger originals of the model for a post, let me know)


Also - a follow up on a previous comment regarding premium seating.

As of the date of my visit, there are only 62 seats available in the Champions Club (all in the top 3 rows). I think there are 400 seats, but too lazy to count them all.

Legends Club sections F, G, H, J are sold out.
In K, L, M there look to be 13 seats total + a few WC seats, with most of what's left in M, P, Q, R, with most of the availability in R (about 2/3 of the section unsold. Best seats left are a pair in Row 3 of R). For some reason, I didn't take a picture of sections A through E, though I would guess most of the availability on that side is in B and A.

Since I don't have all of the LC seats, I can't calculate the actual percentage of seats sold, but it certainly seems higher than the percentages that were listed in the season ticket holder seat selection tool.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 12:07 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 80

Fantastic pictures jfh, good to see the updated look.

However, what happened to the wind veil? Was that taken out?

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 12:42 AM by Reckoner Highlight this comment 81

thanks jfh! appreciate it. love that they have the animatronic planned for center field. it is planned to be animatronic in nature correct? hope so, rather than just lighting up.

should look great.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 01:01 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 82

I didn't ask about the wind veil and forgot to follow up on the animatronic question. Sorry.

I presume that the model hasn't been updated to show the wind veil (or I just don't understand where it's supposed to be - I thought is was on one of the ramp B walls.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 01:09 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 83

So jfh, how exactly did you get this opportunity to have to get such an amazing first hand view at the plans for target field? Is the new model something that will be open to the public at any time to get a better understanding for the new ballpark and a chance to ask questions? Can you go into any greater detail on what you liked/didn't like from your tour. Was there anything that really surprised you to find out? I know there are supposed to be knotholes for people watch the game from outside, where is that exactly? I really, really like the new old school Twins logo they have placed in center field. Obviously everyone here would relish every detail you can share.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 01:42 AM by Hebrew Hammer Highlight this comment 84

When are they going to have light rail in the western part of the metro? Such as Minnetonka? It would be so nice to have trains come out to the west.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 07:00 AM by Vikeologist Highlight this comment 85

That is such great news about the Old Twins Logo in center field! I literally smiled and laughed with joy when I saw that...what a great touch.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 07:21 AM by Andrew Highlight this comment 86

Thanks for the picture post jfh!

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 07:22 AM by firedog Highlight this comment 87

Are they still going to build in that "tower" on the plaza where the step up to the left field bleachers are? It's still shown on the model, but I would have thought it would go in before the finishing touches to the plaza. Any thoughts?

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 07:27 AM by Andrew Highlight this comment 88

One question I have about the large retro logo neon sign (hopefully animatronic)in center field is? With them already removing the cranes from the playing surface, how exactly are they going to erect the steel needed to support the structure according to jfh's pictures? Are they going to temporarily close off the 394 entrance ramp that goes under the trapezoid seat section, and set up a mobile crane there?

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 08:20 AM by Brad Highlight this comment 89

i thought they had installed the supports for that signage? maybe i'm wrong but I thought Rick had posted a pic from a couple months ago showing this. thanks for the pics of the model and your updates, jfh.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 08:23 AM by tim Highlight this comment 90

That is one impressive model.

jfh, I am a silent 50% partner for a pair of Legends Club seats - do I have the opportunity to check out the project office as well? Just curious.

Thanks for the great pictures

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 09:00 AM by Expectorate Highlight this comment 91

I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend going to see one of the River Valley League amateur baseball games. We went and saw the Chaska Cubs at their beautiful outdoor park and had a BLAST. Steeks posted about this a while ago, and some friends and I finally got around to going.

For those of you jonesing for outdoor baseball, and looking for a more pure baseball doesn't get any more pure than this. Wooden bats, beautiful setting, very few promotional gimmicks. Admission is 3 bucks, beers are 2 dollars.

The baseball itself is pretty solid. Some of the plays aren't as automatic as in MLB, but there were defensive gems all over the place: diving stops deep in the whole at short to get the runner by half a step, a throw out from deep right on a guy trying to take an extra base. The straightaway ceterfield home run is 390, and down the lines it was 325 or so.

Looks like the Cubs have a couple of regular season games left this year, and there will probably some playoffs. I loved the Cubs stadium, but I hear Jordan has a great stadium as well.

Click my name for a link to the River Valley League Schedule. I can't recommend it enough!

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 09:14 AM by Dale Highlight this comment 92

They are going to have to do some reconstruction of centerfield if that model is accurate -- it shows more cinderblock structure than is currently in place. In fact, if you look straight at the freeway entrance, there is already final fencing in place where the animatronic sign structure is supposed to be.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 09:45 AM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 93

Dale - glad to hear you enjoyed yourself. Amateur baseball is great in this state, and Chaska's ballpark is a near perfect setting.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 10:13 AM by Steeks Highlight this comment 94

Hammer and Expectorate - I suspect I got the opportunity to meet at the project office for any/all of the following reasons: (a) I asked (b) I'm currently from out of town (c) I am a Legend's Club member and existing full season ticket holder (d) I'll have a pretty decent ADV for 2010 (e) I'd had previous correspondance with Twins officials.

Part of the function of the project office is to act as a sales office for premium seating (suites, Champions Club, Legends Club), so I suspect those candidates may be afforded the same oportunity. I meant to ask about the plans for the model once Target Field opens, but didn't. Most likely, it will end up either at the park or in the admin offices since it doesn't make sense (to me anyway) that the Twins will continue to maintain the existing office.

What I liked on the tour? First, I wouldn't call it a tour. The closest we got to the ballpark itself was looking out the window past the Target Center.

I had asked for a park tour (primarily because I was told by the sales staff last year that one could be arranged), but that was not an option, so our goal was to see the model.

(side note: the Twins are looking into having season ticket holder tours of the park prior to opening, but nothing has been set. I presume these won't happen prior to COO)

I was pleasantly surprised that my host was as generous with his time as he was - I really didn't expect the time for all the Q/A. I liked that I could see my seat locations on the model as it was hard to do when the model was at TwinsFest this year and looking out the window at the park itself was breathtaking - it was a picture perfect day.

The surprises - the plans for the family sections (great location/choice) and some of the marketing considerations involved, the amount of the premium seating that had been sold, especially given the economy, the naming partner that dropped out well into the process (which is also why the original suite Target had is now available), the suite naming convention (which will be obvious to anyone who has ever been in the state), that the Twins may do something with the Ford building and have discussed an HOF, and the fact that the NBA busses players from the Graves Hotel across the street to the Target Center (literally across the street!). There were a couple others, but not directly related to the Twins or the ballpark.

I was not surprised by the level of passion demonstrated for the project or that many of the issues that have been discussed here have obviously considered. I still don't agree with the official position toward sites like these (and didn't venture there), but I don't think there's any grand plan to withhold information.

There were a lot of questions I DIDN'T have to ask - because of the FANTASTIC work that Rick and others have done here, I already knew the answers. We shouldn't lose site of the fact that regular readers here will know far more about Target Field than Joe Fan on Opening Day and that we'll already know about many of the "a ha" moments (like the throwback logo sign in center field).

I was also interested in individual suite rentals - I would like to rent a suite for at least one game next year - so it was good to get a better understanding of the event suites down the right field line (they will be available for individual rental, starting at 24 people).

As to the silent partner question - no clue, but I suspect the Twins are no different than any other MLB club - they deal with the account holder of record.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 95

OK, so what happened to all the spacing in my last post? :) Sorry it's so hard to read ...

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 10:31 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 96

Like Dale, my wife and I went to watch some amateur baseball in Miesville a couple of weeks ago thanks to a recommendation on this site. What a park! It's beautifully maintained with rolling fields of corn behind the fence. It faces northwest, so night games (like the one we went to) are a little blinding for the first few innings.

My only complaint was that the hometown fans were sparse and it was very clearly more of a social event than anything else. There were times I was clapping alone after a strike out or nice play made by the Mudhens. Then again, Miesville is VERY small, so there isn't a big pool to draw from.

Still, it was magnificent to sit outside on a perfect summer evening and watch outdoor baseball three rows behind the plate (something I will NEVER be able to do at Target Field, minus winning the lottery).

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 10:37 AM by ajndsu Highlight this comment 97

It looks like seats are going in on "the trapezoid" in right field

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 10:43 AM by Deenels Highlight this comment 98

I'll add that the Cubs had a great turn out. There were free brats last night and it was bat night for the kids, so I'm sure that helped. But there were several hundred folks there.

Aside from the obligatory kids running around and not paying attention, it seemed like most people were there to kick back and watch the game, although not too seriously. Only a couple of fans hassled the ump about questionable calls. It probably helped that Chaska had a six run lead all night. The crowd was into the great plays (several were made) and they even cheered the Victoria 3rd baseman when he made a diving stop on a ball hit down the line.

Seems like small town amateur baseball is little bit like going to your local Sunday church service: some go for the religion, some for the socializing, some for both.

Great fun!

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 11:04 AM by Dale Highlight this comment 99

Andrew - I had wondered the same thing, and asked DSP. He made it sound like there would be no tower, but just a sun screen roof thingy, similar to the ones on the plaza.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 11:14 AM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 100

I don't get why calling something route1 or red line or hiawatha line makes a bit of difference at all. In fact I would say that it would be much easier to remember whether you needed the hiawatha or central line as opposed to 1, 2, or 3... In fact Hiawatha is the street that it runs a long... can't really get more descriptive than that. Central runs down the central corridor between the two cities... the southwest line... it will run guess what... to the southwest!!!!

BUT if they were magically numbers 1, 2, or 3 we would magically all know what they mean? I doubt it. You would still have to look them up to see where you are going.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 12:30 PM by moda253 Highlight this comment 101

besides that, naming them solely numbers copies new york, naming them colors copies chicago, and the cubs are filing for bankruptcy

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 12:39 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 102

Naming them colors also copies Boston's "T" subway system. I wholeheartedly agree that descriptive names are much more intuitive than the colors or numbers.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 1:01 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 103

It would seem to make sense to just vary the color of the signage and other placarding for each line (i.e. all Hiawatha line content is blue, Central is red, Southwest is green, etc.).

Best of both worlds?

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 1:17 PM by ajndsu Highlight this comment 104

I agree...keep the names!!! Keep the Humphrey and Lindbergh terminals of the airport...STOP DUMMING DOWN THE PUBLIC!!! If people don't know ahead of time how and where to catch their flight, they shouldn't be flying. If people can't tell where the Hiawatha line runs, where the Central line runs, SW, Northstar, etc...Then they're too dumb to ride public transit...Anybody ever heard of a MAP?????? Every station has a route map, it's not rocket science.

Even if we colored the train routes, you still need to use your brain somewhat...You need to know the destination of each direction so you know you're traveling the correct way. Let's say we color or number all of the future train routed, we would still need names on the trains themselves so you could tell the direction/destination of the train. Take the red in chicago...Is it a Howard-bound or 95th-bound train??? Take the brown line, is it a loop-bound or Ravenswood-bound??? I think the only people who find it so hard to understand are the same idiots who drive with a compass on their dashboard.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 1:25 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 105

Thumbs up to Kevin in AZ!

Don't spend $$$ just so some bozo doesn't have to read a map.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 1:30 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 106

Speak the gospel, Kev!

I guarantee that 99.99% percent know what terminal is which, but the MAC had to change it to appease the 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of those who are confused. Unfortunately, everything else is being dumbed down for the appeasement of the 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of America.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 1:59 PM by Pikachu Highlight this comment 107

See, what the airlines should be doing is posting the correct terminal to passengers' Facebook page and Twitter them as well because if it's not on those two social networking websites, it doesn't really exist :).

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 2:19 PM by Faber College Alum Highlight this comment 108

The seats next to ramp B in RC are now installed...

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM by Tom OG Highlight this comment 109

Those rails beyond HERC will extend to the Southwest line when it begins construction and quite possibly the Bottineau line as well (looking to open one year after Southwest).

Rick, this is the first time I've ever heard about a second ballpark stations for Central Corridor and I've been intimately involved with that project for a number of years. Where did you get that information? How official is it and where is the money coming from? The Central Corridor project has exhausted its budget, or so I and lots of others have been told.

One big question I have is why the hell they went to single track just west of the ballpark station. They will almost certainly have to redo that portion when Southwest comes on-line. Is it a space issue? It seems like there's enough space there for double track.

Looking forward to the rails post tomorrow!

And for the record, the MAC's signage plan is utterly ridiculous. That and naming our rail lines after colors, letters or numbers make no sense. No matter what you do, people still have to look at a map. I'd rather inject a bit of our history and uniqueness into our everyday lives.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 2:54 PM by David Highlight this comment 110

I find it curious that the ballpark station is signed "Hiawatha Line." That lends credence to Rick's speculation on a separate Central Corridor station, which would be signed "University Line" (my guess as to the official name of the service).

So what happens when Southwest and Bottineau come on-line. They'll probably have to re-do the signage. It actually might work quite well since both lines will run in the opposite direction of Hiawatha/Central. So perhaps "University/Southwest" signage for one station and "Hiawatha/Bottineau" for the other?

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 2:57 PM by David (aka David) Highlight this comment 111

Looking at the new model pictures, it appears that the old-school logo is NOT animatronic, but simply neon-lit. It's hard to tell if the lighting exists to do animation with the neon.

I'm disappointed it's not animatronic. That's real authentic old-school. But neon is better than no logo at all, I suppose.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 3:05 PM by David (aka David) Highlight this comment 112

how can you tell it's not animatronic?

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 3:17 PM by Elston Gunn Highlight this comment 113

Basically because it looks transparent. I don't see any mechanism there to make anything physically move. I would have expected some solid pieces with hinges, etc. to allow motion.

I agree it's hard to tell. Maybe someone with expensive season tickets can get more information.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 3:21 PM by David (aka David) Highlight this comment 114

ok i sucked it up and picked the lf-center blechers... last 2 seats in the 11 row look down to my left and look into the stacked bullpens

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 3:28 PM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 115

Just because the model isn't animated doesn't mean the final product won't be.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM by some guy Highlight this comment 116

David - I certainly didn't draw any conclusion that it's not animated in some way from the fact that the piece of plastic on the model didn't show any mechanism.

The model doesn't show any actual seats either ... :)

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 117

Animated neon signs don't move. The lights just turn on or off to imply movement. It's the magic of stop motion animation!

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM by Dale Highlight this comment 118

When one considers operational Southwest and Bottineau lines, there will be no space to stack up trains unless they triple-track around HERC, which I suppose is a possibility. Even then, the routing and timing get complicated. Because Southwest will likely through-route to Central Corridor and Bottineau through-route to Hiawatha, it looks much more like the current situation at the Metrodome where trains are constantly heading in both directions.

I think that makes Hiawatha/Bottineau and Central/Southwest stations even more likely. I though maybe they'd combine Hiawatha/Central and Southwest/Bottineau so they could load from both platforms for the same direction but that doesn't work with through-routing.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 3:52 PM by David (aka David) Highlight this comment 119

The fact that they will be storing steet cars next to the ballpark takes me back to Nicollet Park. A large storage facility for street cars took up the whole block between 31st and 32nd streets next door to the park. Street cars were right there when you came out the exit after a game.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 4:57 PM by John in Naples Highlight this comment 120

Kudos on the snaps of the TF model jfh. Very nicely done.
Personally I cant wait until they start installing the seats on the Club level, I'm curious to see how the different color will complement the green seats in the rest of TF.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 5:14 PM by luke Highlight this comment 121

It has not been decided if Bottineau will be Bus Rapid Transit, or Light Rail. Preliminary study is supposed to be done this fall. If they ultimately choose LRT, they have to be 8 - 10 years away from opening.

Also, Southwest may or may not connect at Target Field. One of the alternative routes is a tunnel under Nicollet Mall.

Click my name for a map of the different transit corridors.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 6:41 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 122

Dale, some do and some don't. the one at Citizen's Bank actually moves back and fourth. I think it's cheaper to make the ones that have all the neon in place and just changes which one is on but those look cheap. I'd rather have something that actually moves.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 6:51 PM by Eric in TX Highlight this comment 123

What just happened with Mauer I thoughtthat last out cleared the bullpen. As did others here.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 8:31 PM by Camden Highlight this comment 124

Camden - I'm at work, so watching on TV and listening to ESPN radio, and while it looked like it cleared the fence, radio said that it was caught on the warning track...


Posted on July 13, 2009 at 8:34 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 125

i wonder if that old-school logo signage was planned from the beginning or if it was the whining from us ballpark rubes that brought it about. it wasn't part of the original concept, that's for sure.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 9:33 PM by tim Highlight this comment 126

watching the HR derby tonight and I really can't wait til it's at TF. Should be fun, whenever it comes back here.

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 9:41 PM by luke Highlight this comment 127

at the home run derby in target field you are going to have balls bouncing off the concrete in the right field plaza all the way down to 1st Ave and perhaps jacking a few cars heading off of/onto I-394!!

Posted on July 13, 2009 at 10:29 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 128

In 2012 they have to give the All
Star game to Fenwey because 2012 will be Fenwey's 100 year aniversery and in 2014 it has to go to Wrigley for the same reason so the Twins should have to wait a few more years.So I think that in 2012 they give it to Boston, in 2013 they give it to Kansas City because Kansas City was promised it between 2011 and 2014 plus this would make up for the back to back NLs and in 2014 give it to the Cubs

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 04:21 AM by Ryan Rapp Highlight this comment 129

Then in 2015 you give it to the Twins for their new ballpark and in 2016 you give it to the Mets for their new ballpark.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 04:30 AM by Ryan Rapp Highlight this comment 130

click my name for an article from the KC Star, that seems to all but nail down Kansas City for the ASG in 2012...not Fenway.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 06:54 AM by luke Highlight this comment 131

Thanks for the pictures jfh!! I have a couple questions about your pictures. There is lettering on the pressbox limestone, were you able to make out what it says? To me it looks like Target Field, but not positive.

Also, the interior design idea board that you took a picture of, was that for the Legends Club area? Thanks.

There are some interior renderings on the design board...It would be nice for the Twins to finally start releasing some of renderings. We are less than a year away!!

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 10:36 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 132

Three years apart in one state, just seems too close to me. I honestly think the Twins deserve it in 2012. These games should be hosted as the stadium is very new. I thought St. Louis' 3 years of waiting was ridiculously long. I say forget the alternating leagues, there are so many national league teams right now that have opened ballparks recently, but will be waiting some nearly ten years just to get a game.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 10:41 AM by Camden Highlight this comment 133

Jeff - I think it says "Welcome to Target Field" on the press box limestone.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 10:57 AM by MATT Highlight this comment 134

I don't think Kansas City hosting three years after St. Louis is that big of a deal. They are two separate metro areas with their own teams and their own fans. The distance between them of about 250 miles is actually greater than the distance between New York and Boston as well as the distance between New York and Philadelphia. The Royals haven't hosted since 1973 and this is a team that has been horrible for ages and has had a lot of attendance problems. They could use the All Star Game to boost season ticket sales and overall fan interest.

Before the wave of new stadiums, MLB very often doled the All Star Game to cities where the home team was struggling and needed a lift. That is just as much the reason why the Twins had the game in 1985 as the Metrodome being new. The Twins would be fine to wait until 2014 or 2016 or even 2018. Then they can get the benefit of the game when the park isn't so new and it'll be time for a new gimmick to get fans in the door.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 11:29 AM by Jorge Highlight this comment 135

i was just in chicago and i was staying right off the brown line @ armitage. i agree it would have been nice to have the name of lines in addition to the colors but it wasn't hard to figure out; plus having google maps on my iphone which can figure out transit for your makes it easy.

i still haven't heard when i get to pick my bleacher seats. because i signed up after the season started, i'm at the end of the pack. it also doesn't help that my twins rep is horrible at responding to e-mail/voicemails.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 11:31 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 136

I assume that the Southwest LRT trains arrive at the ballpark and just keep on going, becoming Hiawatha trains. It would be silly to have them stop at the ballpark and go back the way they came.

I really do not understand why you would have separate stations just because the trains go to different places. Hasn't anyone else been to Grand Central Station in New York? What, you think they have a separate building for each commuter train??

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 12:17 PM by Dave T Highlight this comment 137

Yeah Grand Central is pretty crazy. I took Septa and NJ Trasit to New York from Phili, and that's where it dropped us, but in all the craziness it's pretty organized

So is April 12th opening day or exhibition?

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 12:47 PM by The Sooj Highlight this comment 138

Sooj-April 12th is opening day. The Twins will probably play 2 exibition games on April 2nd and April 3rd against an unknown opponent-probably the Gophers baseball team or a National League team. I'm not 100 percent sure on these facts but I'm close. Does anyone know if the Twins are going to use DD Grassmaster-I have not heard a thing on the subject.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 1:10 PM by Tom D. Highlight this comment 139

Jeff - Matt is correct. It says "WELCOME TO TARGET FIELD" with the Target logo between TARGET and FIELD.

The interior design board you reference was a shadow box and yes, the pics I posted were of the Legends Club. It showed the type of flooring (stained concrete, patterned stained concrete, custom rug, area rug) as well as other materials used (counters, rails, etc.) There were also boxes for the Carew/Puckett atriums and one that showed the relative locations of the CC and LC areas (and the Metropolitan Club). That pic was pretty much out of focus though. There was also a larger rendering of the CC area that is in the premium seating marketing material. I think there was one other shadow box, but I don't recall what it was and didn't take a shot of it.

I didn't see any interior renderings of the suite areas or concourses though - the focus of the wall (and really the sales center) were the premium seating options. The actual sales room was mock up of a suite (approximately full size, given the constraints of the building) that had some Champions Club seating and a full wall depicting a seating diagram for the CC and LC areas, with a sticker on each seat sold. As I mentioned in another post, very much like walking into a real estate development and seeing SOLD stickers on the model houses.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 1:15 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 140

Just found out that the Twins have changed seat numbering slightly for seats in the 3xx level - where there are seats in rows 6 and 7 ocer the entrances (the areas with two rows of 4) there will be a "missing seat number.

For example, what was 318, row 6, seat 16 in the seat selection tool will actually be seat 17 and there will be no seat 16 in those rows.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 1:20 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 141

jfh does long posts

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 3:17 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 142

this is a test posting

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 4:03 PM by Robin Highlight this comment 143

You have passed the test.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM by Rick 144


Posted on July 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM by ho Highlight this comment 145


Posted on July 14, 2009 at 5:08 PM by Deenels Highlight this comment 146

didn't realize tests themselves could post here, robin. i thought it was just humanoid robots like myself that could post...

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 5:29 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 147

wow! some disrespectful folks in st. louis tonight. what reason is there to boo pres. barack obama at an all-star game while throwing out the first pitch? most were cheering, but using the platform of an all-star game of all things to boo the president of the united states is low class if you ask me. pretty weak display on st. louis' part......

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 148

I agree Beta - I'm not a fan of Obama's politics, but I will always respect the office and booing a President at the All Star game shows a lack of class.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 8:06 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 149

Being that Missouri is just north of the Mason-Dixon line, I'm not surprised to hear them booing a black president. Sure, Missouri may be north of the line, but if you travel the state and listen to many of the people, you would swear you were in Mississippi. I would like to think that in an urban metropolis like St. Louis, people would be a little more educated and enlightened but I guess not.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 8:10 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 150

Kevin -

I don't care where you are from, or who the President is. Bush, Clinton, Carter, Obama, whoever. Boo them at political rallies and speeches or picket the White House. But I just think it's bad forum to boo the Pres at the All Star Game. Can't we all just leave politics aside for events like this?

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 8:32 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 151

Another think Kevin - I just re-read my post and it sounds like I'm calling you out...I'm not. I was just trying to say that it shouldn't matter where the game is played. People should respect the office and the moment....and just so you know, I am a hard core Republican who did not vote for Obama, but I would never think of booing the President tonight had I been in the crowd.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 8:34 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 152

As a former Republican I must say that you're a very noble Republican and you should be congratulated on your respectful demeanor. I had no idea there were any like you left in the party.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 9:54 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 153

Yeah, I was pretty surprised to hear it. As a former Republican but now libertarian I can't stand Bush, McCain, and especially Obama's policies. But to boo the President like that shows such incredible disrespect for the office that he holds. How is one to gain credibility if all they do is tearing down the other. Unfortunately that seems to be the approach that each party uses along with fear tactics to limit the competition and promote their own (similar) agenda's.

Anyways another win by the AL saweeet!

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 10:35 PM by Camden Highlight this comment 154

"Posting" was a noun there, and "test" was an adjective.
Anyway, I've enjoyed reading this forum, and have never been on one before; hence my cautious approach.

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 11:00 PM by Robin Highlight this comment 155

I wonder if Mccain would've thrown the first pitch his arm would have fell off?

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 11:02 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 156

Has it seriously been TWO MONTHS since DSP last updated the ballpark blog?

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 11:44 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 157


Excellent point. I noticed this recently and, to be quite honest, wasn't surprised. The Twins have done a horrendous job providing regular/consistent updates on the progress at Target Field. Many thanks to our propietor Rick who has filled this void incredibly well. Rick your legwork and thorough research don't go unnoticed!!!

Posted on July 14, 2009 at 11:49 PM by Max Highlight this comment 158

Kevin, are you implying that anywhere south of the mason dixon line is racist? That is a stereotype that is just plain wrong. Maybe 30 years ago you would be right but in this day and age especially in major metropolitan citys racism isn't as prevalent as you think. Even in rural areas like mississippi there is not as much racism as there used to be. I have no idea why St. Louis would boo Obama(red state?) but it's not because he's black, especially when you consider that St. Louis's black population is 32.4%.

Posted on July 15, 2009 at 12:09 AM by Eric in TX Highlight this comment 159


Posted on August 5, 2010 at 01:21 AM by theloniousjoe Highlight this comment 160


Posted on April 14, 2014 at 9:31 PM by bulldog Highlight this comment 161

This page was last modified on January 16, 2010.

"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3046 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.

Click to enlarge.

This is what it looked like during the first open house in March.

Just some of the lumiaries who turned out for the unveiling (Terry is clearly thinking about Sidney Ponson).

You have to wonder just what happened here. Will it remain forever embedded in cement?

Despite what those signs say, every one of these places was selling either snacks or Yankee memorabilia out of its front door. Do you suppose anything like this will spring up anywhere near the new Twins ballpark?

Storage tracks in the foreground.

Snow-blowing the field

A seating bowl comes into focus. Note that the netting has been installed on the foul pole. (Field Box)

The 1963 team won 91 games! (Click to enlarge and see the names)

Click to see the full-size image.

The view out Gate 6 "Oliva".

Home plate mount from Met Stadium (Source: LP, courtesy Clyde Doepner)

Just to the right, more ticket machines. These things are everywhere.

This is the revised version of the center field pavilion (without the restaurant). It looks like there are no seats, just some ledges for people to sit on. It reminds me of the seating on the "bridge" which sticks out of the new Guthrie Theater. Anything which lands in the trees will presumably be a home run, so the "411" sign is apparently just for fun.

And another angle looking at the overhang area of the right field pavilion. This looks to me like a great area to watch a game.

Supports for the little sections in the outfield.

Ice cream!

Condiments! (complete with faux limestone on the cart -- nice touch)

Break time

Opening day, 2010

The Guthrie Theater's Wurtele Thrust Stage seating

On this day, George was handling fruits and veggies right inside gate 34.

The process of building the canopy is really amazing to watch.

The transit corner entrance (Photo by Tom Sweeney, Star Tribune)

Our conductor in Big Lake

The Metrodome is converted to its football configuration after the Twins game on August 29, 2002

Champion's Club details (click to enlarge)

Concourse ceilings (from the Ballpark Authority's May update)

The brown grass was left over from the first attempt at groundbreaking (canceled after the 35W bridge collapse)

The former Ford manufacturing plant (now Ford Centre).

Champion's Club details (click to enlarge)

Secret entrance exposed!

I meant to include this shot the other day. It's the new LRT bridge being built next to the remaining half of the Fifth Street bridge. The new half is almost TWICE the width of the portion torn down. And the other end runs right into a HERC administration building! (Click to see the view from nearly the same spot about 85 years ago.)

Spring of 1982 (click to enlarge greatly -- can you pick out Kent Hrbek?)

Steps, skyway, and plaza intersect.


BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis


First Edition (1992)

Second Edition (2006)


Selected Bibliography - Surveys


Second Edition (1987)

Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title

(2000, large coffee table)

Original edition (2000, round)

Revised edition (2006, round)

(2001, medium coffee table)

(2002, small coffee table)

(2003, medium coffee table)

(2004, very large coffee table)

(2006, very large coffee table)

Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia


Book and six ballpark miniatures

Complete Bibliography

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