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From the Plaza

July 19, 2008 12:33 AM

In case you missed it, here is the WCCO video report of the limestone installation. Sue Turner crams in a whole bunch of little details into a very succinct report. Despite the presence of four TV cameras, I think hers was the only actual video report.


Here are some of those details:

- Limestone installation will stretch into the summer of 2009

- 100,000 square feet of limestone (100 truck loads)

- Designed to emulate bluffs visible along the Mississippi (I'll have a photo soon for comparison purposes)

- The tone of the stone will be darkest at the bottom, lightest at the top (apparently makes the building look taller, though I don't know why they would need this)

- The stone formed between 435 and 480 million years ago

- There are about 300 panels in total

- The stone is quarried by Vetter Stone Company

If I can ever get it uploaded (I hate YouTube since Google took over and the lawsuits began), I'll link to the complete press conference with Dan Mehls, of Mortenson Construction. But not right now...

Now, here are a few more things I saw from the plaza the other day. Looking through my photos, I've probably got a few more days of juicy images for you. MOJO has the walk-around tour covered beautifully. Thanks, Chris!

There's really no way to describe the atmosphere of the plaza, even in its currently unfinished form. The steel which will be the restaurant dominates the view, but in a very good way. Its angles have a drama and excitement which draw you toward the field.



The large planters which are visible in the animation and the model are well underway. I was imagining small, portable planter boxes, but these are anything but small, and certainly not portable. They are huge! It will take a lot of dirt to fill them, and there will be lots of room for flowers or bushes or trees or whatever. Here are a couple of images.


Looking up toward Seventh Street.


Looking up toward Sixth Street.


A mysterious smile from within a very deep planter!

The view up Sixth Street was surprisingly muted, not what I expected at all. The skyway just overwhelms everything, forming something of a wall between the plaza and the city. This may be a good thing, but my first impression was a little bit of disappointment given how spectacular the reverse view is from inside the skyway.

(This is a little conundrum I seem to face all the time. Often, while driving on I-94 through Wisconsin, I'll spy a beautiful house on a beautiful hill and think, "I bet that's a great place to live." Then I realize that, no, it can't be because it's right next to a freakin' freeway!)


Like the restaurant, the Pro Shop is a stunner when viewed up close. Again, it draws you in, and, with the restaurant, defines the area where Gate 3 "Killebrew" will be located. It's a most welcoming place already.


The Pro Shop


Gate 3 "Killebrew"

I asked Kevin Smith if anything was settled yet about vendors on the plaza. He said they haven't even started working on that yet, but, with all that space, there would definitely be some.

"All that space" is right. Overall, the plaza reminded me immediately of a market I visited during a high school trip to Toledo, Spain. There the plazas are central to the towns or neighborhoods, and they are ringed on all sides with multi-story buildings while tiny streets snake off and disappear in various directions.

Plazas in Spain

Two plazas in Spain. (Brad and I were pretending to steal coins from the fountain. We were all just so darn funny back in high school, eh?)

The plaza on the left above is actually in Madrid and contains a very large fountain (which is quite common). But you can see how the buildings form a solid barrier along the edge. They go all the way around, though the plaza area is quite large.

On the right is a cathedral plaza in Toledo which features tree plantings much like those which will be on the ballpark plaza.

In our setting, the parking ramps and Target Center (well, the skyway, actually) create the formal perimeter, and Sixth and Seventh streets do appear to slink off and disappear. It was a powerful effect -- I was transported back almost 30 years in a heartbeat.

I think it was also made more powerful by the knowledge that a year ago it was just open freeway there! This is a genuinely new and stunning public space for the city of Minneapolis. And it was created out of thin air!

This brings up a quick subject I wrote about long ago: traffic noise. There simply was none. Even with traffic moving at a normal clip below and around us, it was an utter non-factor. Construction noise may have covered some of it, but I made a point of trying to listen just for traffic, and had to strain to hear it.

Our tour of the plaza went all the way to the edge where the right field stands (the part with the overhang) will be. It's not there yet, but the view is spectacular.


Game Notes


New section labels, but some curious choices.

The Twins got the second half started tonight with a 6-0 win over Texas. I was there and had some brief game notes.

The first is something I've been meaning to mention all season. The Metrodome concourses got some new section indicators this year. They are lighted, highly visible, attractive, but lack the one very important piece of information which would have made them more useful than what was already there: Which end of the row am I entering at?

Ushers are forever looking at tickets and telling people to go out into the concourse and enter at the other end of the section. How many times have you tried to enter a section only to be greeted by a large group, tickets in hand, coming out to simply enter at the other end? Even tonight I advised a man holding seat 30 in my row that I was in seat 1, and he'd have to crawl over 29 people to get to his seat unless he exited and then reentered at the next door down.

There should be signs to indicate this: "Section 215 - Seat 1" or "Section 215 - Seat 30."

I know how the numbering works (seat 30 of section 201 is next to seat 1 of section 202, etc) but most people just don't get it. Signs are a simple solution.


We were sitting down the right field line -- the part of the dome where you can't see anything that happens in right field. It made me wonder if there will be a similar problem at the equivalent spot in the new ballpark. I don't have an answer for that yet.


We were also in row 11 of the upper deck. I did not buy these tickets, and probably would not have because I have learned that rows 10, 11 and 12 in the upper deck are the absolute worst for the sound system. Some sections fare better than others, but if there is a speaker directly in front of you and you are in one of these rows, forget about having any conversation between innings or before the game starts. It is just too loud. And blaring. And mind-bogglingly obnoxious.


LRT throngs after the game

I know that I shouldn't hate that between-innings announcer -- he's just doing his job -- but I do. His voice goes through me like a skewer when I'm in that Blaring Zone.

Can this be fixed? At the Dome, no. Thankfully, it will be a completely different scene in the new park. I have yet to ask any questions about the sound system, but I'm certainly curious.

Train Crowds

I rode the LRT to the ballpark. I do this when I'm not in a hurry. Getting to the game is no problem. But after the game, oh boy! I waited for 45 minutes to get on a train. Even then, they were packed in like sardines. The lines stretched a long distance onto the plaza from the station.

It raised some serious concerns about the size of the platform at the new ballpark. This definitely merits further investigation.

Finally, one game-related thought.

Instant Replay

I'm a purist at heart, but technology is good at solving some problems and should be incorporated in as unobtrusive a manner as possible. So, while I'm a fan of adding instant replay capabilities to the umpire staff, I am not a fan of the "fortress of solitude" strategy which has been proposed and could be making its debut any day now.

In case you are unfamiliar with it, a lone ump will sit in a windowless room with a million TV monitors and access to every TV camera in every ballpark for every game in progress. Then, when a call needs to be reviewed, the crew chief in the ballpark will call the super-ump by cell phone and ask for a review.

This is pretty stupid, if you ask me. MLB is convinced that it won't happen all that often, and that one ump should be able to handle whatever volume of work comes along. That's total BS. Once it's available there will be three questionable calls per game. And he'll get calls from five crew chiefs simultaneously. And he'll have to look at three angles on each play.

Stop the madness!

My first preference would be to simply show the replay on the scoreboard and let the umps look at it that way. No mystery. No delay. No fortress of solitude. The official scorer could oversee which replay or replays get shown. No game slowdown and the crowd is entertained by being essentially in on the process.

Barring that, it would be better to have an extra ump on every crew who sits in the booth watching replays. He would be available for an appeal just like when a catcher asks for an appeal on a check swing. He'd be watching replays all the time, and probably know the answer to any question which may be posed before he's ever called on.

If an appeal is called for, the crew chief just points to the booth and a hand pops out of the window with either an "out" fist or a "safe" hand or a home run "twirl" or whatever. Again, it's fast and consistent with the way the game has always been played.

I'm no expert on these things, but I know a kludgy solution when I see one, and the fortress of solitude approach is a big-time kludge. It will fail. Spectacularly.

All for Now

Enough of my rambling. Next up, I will have some concourse and escalator shots! I'll leave you with a sight that took our construction tour group a little by surprise.



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I think they want the facade to appear taller because this exterior is very horizontal.

That second pic is awesome. Just shows how interesting these glass & steel cantilevered sections will be.

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 09:29 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 1

I know at some of the newer ballparks, they number the seats starting on the homeplate side of the section so that seat 1 is closer to homeplate and seat 20 is further down the LF/RF line.

It will be much easier to navigate in the new stadium with the open (and much wider) concourses, along with the fact that sections will not be as wide as they are in the Metrodome.

As for the LRT concerns, so many fans currently walk downtown from the Metrodome to hop on the train to avoid having to stand in line at the Metrodome Station. As a result, the trains are much more filled by the time they actually get to the Metrodome Station.

At the new ballpark, that will be the end of the Hiawatha Line, so it will be impossible for people to walk further down the line and hop on the trains. This means all trains will be (or at least should be) empty by the time they load at the new ballpark. I am hoping this will help alleviate those problems. Also, I think they will need to have two, three, or even four trains on standby for when the game does end so that those trains can fill up as soon as the game is over. That should help control that "initial" big crowd following the game.

I am still concerned that the new LRT platform at the new ballpark is going to be much smaller than the current platform at the Metrodome Station. All we can do is wait and see come 2010, but hopefully they have enough empty trains sitting at the new ballpark to get the people loaded quickly following the games.

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 11:26 AM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 2

It also looks like the LRT extension to the ballpark goes past the stop and curls down around HERC and along 6th Ave N - across the street from the large Metro Transit facility.

I imagine they are planning to store trains there (it's not a stop), so following ballgames "empty" trains will come in to take fans home or for the evening rush hour as well.

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 11:59 AM by barryS Highlight this comment 3

Rick - while you may have not been able to hear the traffic under the plaza, we'll have to wait for Nick Coleman's report on this issue to know for sure.

As for the blind spots, this has been a concern of mine since the plans were first released for the stadium (I've commented on it a few times on this site). I think the areas behind home plate will have blind spots in the opposite corners of the outfield and the right field section will not be able to see all of right field due to the overhang of the stands.

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 3:11 PM by IowaWigman Highlight this comment 4

As far as the light rail, Metro Transit is hoping to have 3-car trains trains operating by 2010. This means a 50% increase in the number of people getting in each train.

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 7:23 PM by Andrew Highlight this comment 5

has anyone heard whether or not the northstar will operate after twins games? the same old line has been used for years: "possible special events trains."

before i go: i see a parallel between this stadiumm's construction and this year's team. while the building is going up nicely, so is the team. starting pitching is stronger than anyone thought; gomez, casilla, and buscher came out of nowhere; and mauer and morneau are having mvp years. i concede that the moves in the off season were spot on (i haven't heard anyone whining about losing hunter and trading santana in awhile...).

well, done, rick. your blog is a part of my breakfast.

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 10:41 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 6

interesting thoughts on LRT & capacity at the new ballpark.

however, let's hope we don't need to worry about trains getting filled up at all at once immediately after each game is over. i understand some people just have to start heading home after games for various reasons, but my belief is - especially now being in the west end of downtown/warehouse district where there is much more nightlife - that many more people will instead "hoof it" over to the warehouse district & various parts of downtown minneapolis to patronize local public houses, clubs, etc.

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 10:50 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 7

I didn't even care about Hunter because I saw an interview where Hunter said the only way to keep him was to "pay me", and like it was said before, he will be a burden on the payroll in a corner by the time his contract was up. I thought us fans meant someting to him and his love of the game was not about money...I was wrong. As for Santana, how do you justify spending the kind of money he wanted when he only pitched every 5 games, or about 32 of the 162 games? With all that money left over and we got players that can play all 162 games to help us win...Not a bad choice by the twins. Silva wasn't my favorite either. As for the new uniforms will go in 2010, let's hope they are nothing like these , haha(click link).

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 11:42 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 8

The two players I was sad to see go were Bartlett and Garza (no, not Lew Ford or Jason Tyner). I thought Delmon Young would be good though, but until recently, that wasn't the case. Now, back to the ballpark, I think that the limestone looks awesome! With the different colors it kinda reminds me of the ouside of the Met with all of the multiple colors in a pattern(and the double deck outfield stands also help to make it look like a modern day Metropolitan Stadium...I love it!

Posted on July 19, 2008 at 11:50 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 9

I know that some folks here aren't big fans of the pictures provided by the Ballpark Authority, however, here is the link for the latest updates for those that might be interested.

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 09:23 AM by Mo Highlight this comment 10

from the renderings/videos, I thought that the planter boxes on the plaza looked like they were going to be made out of, or at least have the outside of limestone. Guess not...

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 1:24 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 11


I forgot to mention that the panels going up on the facade are only one form in which limestone is being installed.

There will be other limestone accents throughout the park (including on the plaza) which will be installed in a more traditional fashion and much later in the process.

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 1:39 PM by Rick 12

Rick - Do you know when those big yellow things supporting the restaraunt are going to be taken down?

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 3:59 PM by Brandon Highlight this comment 13

i just saw a flyover of anaheim stadium and it looks like an oasis in the parking lot. i'm really happy that the new twins ballpark will show off the city that it calls home.

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 5:07 PM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 14

They can only fit 3 stones per truck load?

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 5:10 PM by Confused Highlight this comment 15

I think the Twins should incorporate some of the lighting system that Target uses on its headquarters building into the ballpark. Either on the glass sections of the exterior, the canopy , or even the skyway across the plaza. After a game the park could glow different colors depending on whether the team won or lost.

I also think the target center is going to put up some time square esque advertising along the corner that faces the plaza. Downtown advertising space that is also visible in the ballpark and on TV just seems too prime to pass up.

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 5:20 PM by Evan A. Highlight this comment 16

The canopy will be lighted with differant colors with LED, GO NORTHERN LIGHTS YARD!!!

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 6:43 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 17

I like northern lights yard sounds good.

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 6:53 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 18

In regards to the different lighting schemes that the ballpark will have. Does anyone know if they will be accenting the trees and planters with spot lights or anything. It would be really cool to have the trees in the plaza up lit.

Posted on July 20, 2008 at 9:07 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 19

I'd prefer Land O' Lakes Park, or Field, but please no "Yard".

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 08:24 AM by luckylager Highlight this comment 20

Evan, do you know for sure that Target Center is moving forward with the mentioned advertising?

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 09:28 AM by JohnK Highlight this comment 21

No, no. Simply pure speculation on my part.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 10:25 AM by Evan A. Highlight this comment 22

I'm with you luckylager. I hate "yard" this isn't London. I prefer "field" but "park" would be fine also.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 10:49 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 23

what about oriole park at camden yards? baltimore isn't london....

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 10:56 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 24

One thing our park has in common with Baltimore (and several other recent parks) is that it's being built on former rail yards.

In the case of Baltimore, the neighborhood has always been known as Camden, and the ballpark sits squarely in what was known for over a century as "Camden Yards" (meaning "the rail yards in Camden"). The naming process for that project is described in some detail in "Ballpark" by Peter Richmond (click my name).

Alas, the area the Twins are building in never seems to have had such a catchy name. Even if it had, I suspect that modern stadium economics would have won out anyway.

In Minneapolis, one of the only neighborhoods to develop a catchy name from its nearby rail yard is "Dinkytown" -- named for the smaller engines called "Dinkies" used to move cars around in the yard.

A former portion of that yard (which was and still is VERY large) is where you'll find the new Gopher Stadium. But it will carry a most modern name which, in this case, is probably preferable...

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:19 AM by Rick 25

annoying - the ballpark - as you note, is Oriole Park. It's location is Camden Yards - I.E. a rail yard (click on my name). Hence the name, Oriole Park AT Camden Yards. The media, for some reason, has picked Camden Yards as the common vernacular for the ballpark, rather than the actual name, Oriole Park.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:21 AM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 26

I've been concerned about the Hiawatha platform ever since I first saw the proposal. I hope that the Northstar waiting area will be a little more spacious and some people can head down there to wait if the LRT platform is jammed. I can imagine vendors in the Northstar area that folks could take advantage of.

Remember that Central Corridor trains will also pull into the ballpark station. And SW LRT (when it's up and running in 2016) will be through-routed to St. Paul. So we potentially have riders from four geographic areas (SW suburbs, NW suburbs / St. Cloud, S suburbs, St. Paul) waiting at the two platforms. This is a good thing, but people traffic will need to be managed very well.

barryS, where do you see the extension going over near the Heywood garage? I've not heard that before.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:36 AM by David Highlight this comment 27

We've talked park names and uniforms a lot on this site, and that leads me to believe people have strong interest in both subject. I would love to see the Twins either gather opinions or even hold a vote (or contest?) to help decide the name of the new stadium. I'm sure naming rights will go to a corporation, but at least fans could have a say to name it "park", "stadium", "grounds", "field", etc.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:37 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 28

I know that it's Oriole Park AT Camden Yards. Based on luckylager's and kevin in az's comments about how they do not want "yard" in some instances, yard is appropriate.

I am not saying that the new Twins park should be a yard or even a grounds but rather a park or field. They need to name it already so we can stop jumping on each other about what it should be named.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:38 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 29

About the LRT station at the ballpark. I agree that there is not enough space for fans to wait to aboard the train after the game. It appears to be less than half the size of tha plaza at the Dome, and that is a disaster after games as it is. Perhaps they can have a waiting line run from the platform down the HERC side of the park... The waiting line could go all the way down to 7th street if need be. This could work...

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 12:06 PM by J2K Highlight this comment 30

Rick--Question on transit--has there been any discussion about busing to the stadium--for instance, I live near the 61 route, which has its last pickup downtown (near the new stadium) at about 10pm, which wouldn't always work. I would hope that the bus schedules will change on game days. I also think that it would be a great idea to run shuttles from Rosedale, Southdale, etc.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 12:16 PM by ew Highlight this comment 31

It was in disagreement with anything said on here. I just have heard the term "yard" used by some on here and I don't think they understand how Oriole Park and Camden Yards got its name. There will be a railroad and light rail interstection at this ballpark, but it's still not a rail yard. The term "yard" used in Great Britain is used for park. It would be nice to keep this place as local as possible. Are there any parks in the Twin Cities area called "________ Yard?"

I equate the term "yard" in this instance with HOK creating bogus history with all of their throwback ballparks which are anything but throwback.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 12:26 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 32

My above comment should read it WASN'T in disagreement with anything said by one particular person, I've just heard the term Yard thrown out there.

Some of these sound okay, but I worry about the names getting too wordy.

Great River Park at North Loop Station
Land o Lakes Field at Northstar Crossing
Waste Management Ballpark at The Incinerator??????

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 12:39 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 33

My biggest fear is that someone in the Twins brass would find it neat to partner with Met Life and call it the Met. Those of us who grew up with the Met believes there's only one Met and it cannot be replaced.

If there's anyone at the Twins currently thinking of this, STOP and get the 2nd webcam up and running instead.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 12:48 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 34

So the Twins own the domain to Northern Lights Park/Field/Yards. I like the sound of any of those names, but what company is Norhtern Lights?

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 12:49 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 35

Kevin, I agree with what you're saying about naming this park a 'yard.' However, this site has just as much of a claim to be a current and former 'yard' as Camden does (see pic in link).

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 1:19 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 36

That's good Alex, so let's stick with the now. This is no longer a rail yard so let's not call it something that it's not. This ballpark is about the future, not the past. I just want the Twins to continue with that theme.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 1:26 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 37

Annoying Customer: Sorry if I made you thing I was "jumping all over you". That was not my intent. I was just opining. I hate when corporations think they need to add a european element to lend sophistication to a project. Like the annoying British voice on the airport trams. This is Minnesota damnit!!

I'd like to know where the "Northern Lights" name comes from too.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 1:26 PM by luckylager Highlight this comment 38

Agreed. Camden Yards works because it harmonizes with the old warehouse and can legitimately lay claim to that kind of a name - part of the reason it sticks with fans and media, IMO.

This park, despite a similar location, doesn't have that same connection, and shouldn't try to emulate it.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 1:32 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 39

Yes Alex, you definitely get my point. Camden Yards was a very appropriate name at the time. HOK began its streak of building throwback ballparks when it designed Oriole Park. A throwback ballpark should carry a name of historical meaning of the area. The Twins ballpark is not a throwback ballpark at all. To the Twins credit, they have designed a very modern, futuristic ballpark and for that type of modern buiding to have an old railyard name attached to it seems silly.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 1:36 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 40

luckylager, are you sure you're not my twin?? I just busted out laughing at your airport tram comment. Last time I was up there I took the tram and I blurted out, "What the hell is this, London?"

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 1:38 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 41

Great River Park at North Loop Station

I like it!!!

lets get that 2nd web cam for kevs sake!

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 2:13 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 42

I definitely know how Oriole Park at Camden Yards got its name, as I have been there on several ocasions and walked from the downtown harbor to Oriole Park and know that the district is known as Camden Yards, and yes, we have a rail yard as well. I just think that park, field are done at all the new ballparks and isn't that what we are trying to get away from, doing what everyone else does? I just thought that it would sound different that everyone else, that's all...

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 2:18 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 43

Indeed. To take it further, the rail yard the Twins park sits on never had the kind of name recognition that Camden Yards had or has. Camden Yard is still a station for Maryland's Commuter Rail system.

Really, the site probably has more name-recognition as the Rapid Park site, and while there's value in attaching your name to the sentimentality associated with old railroads, there's not a whole lot of value in doing so with surface parking lots.

It's all moot anyway. Personally, when we saw some of the web domains the Twins had registered preemptively, I liked Allianz Park - they've got a history with cool and modern sporting venues (see link)

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 2:19 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 44

Rapid Park on Basset's Creek?

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 3:06 PM by David Highlight this comment 45

no worries lager and i totally agree with you and kevin on the light rail voice. maybe they do it because the british accent tends to be "soothing" which will help you forget that the trains are running late....

i brought this up in a much earlier post about the trains and how an extra track to allow for an extra train to be waiting. my main example was pge park in portland, or. for the westbound trains there is a staging track (see link for the google map) and the eastbound and westbound stations are a block apart. this allows many more people to maneuver for the trains.

i also hope they have it so your game day ticket counts as your fare on the bus/train. imagine how much easier that would be after the game! no waiting five bajillion minutes (i have a metropass so i'm set) to buy a ticket and then fight your way onto the train!

time to get back to work...

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 3:08 PM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 46

Not really a fan of the name Allianz. Feels too corporate and I don't really like when two stadiums have the same name, corporate or otherwise.

I'm kinda surprised Travelers Field/Park isn't getting any love. It sounds more natural than a Best Buy or Allianz, and it really fits the transportation thing goin on.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 3:39 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 47

I'll probably just call it the loop. Or the station. or whatever name that grows organicly. Whatever informal name it gets will be coined, adopted, and used by the fans without us having to ponder over it before it happens. Fun to guess, but my thoughts is that we are way off from what it will be in the end.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 4:04 PM by moda253 Highlight this comment 48

Great River Park at North Loop Station. Isn't THAT the truth. The ballpark is located at a transportation hub, and the planners need to accomodate large numbers of people wanting to board the LRT.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 4:39 PM by Dave T Highlight this comment 49

I just hope the name is simple. No offense guys, Land O Lakes Park at Northstar Crossing makes me want to puke. Keep it ________ Park or Field. no pretentious "at" need be involved. just my opinion

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 4:55 PM by Don T Highlight this comment 50

Lafferty - i am with you on the Travelers Field/Park name. i like it. seems to roll off the tounge pretty well and sounds kind of "old fashioned" in a way. almost not corporate even though it is.

travelers official world/corporate headquarters is in downtown st. paul correct?

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 5:18 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 51

guys, i'm pretty confident that the twins won't get too grotesquely busy with the name of this ballpark. the name deserves to be small, conpact like the site it sits on & i'll bet they know that.

before I go: scott baker, don't be so mean! nice outing yesterday.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 5:45 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 52

Just out for a bike ride and was shooting by the plaza on 3rd avenue, and was suddenly distracted -- as my eyes teared up, I panicked -- there WAS a terrible smell. It was like baby diapers, yep, the distinct smell of hot humid trash. This could not be, I thought. Nick can't be right I kept repeating in my head. The smell suddenly got stronger as though it was right under my nose -- and I realized it WAS under my nose. The Target center dumpsters are under the plaza walkover on 3rd, and wow do they stink really really bad. Seriously, go check them out next time you're there. Oh yeah, and then I biked all the way around the HERC and didn't smell a thing, so suck it Coleman.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 7:36 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 53

I meant 2nd avenue, not 3rd.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 7:37 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 54

I, for one, am quite familiar with the Target Center dumpsters, and actually mentioned them in my comment on Coleman's column over at the Strib site. They simply have to go!

There are also a few choice sewer drains in the area that are To Be Avoided.

But the HERC? Fresh as a daisy.

The Twins are now saying that they might be able to harness steam to create electricity for the ballpark (as opposed to earlier plans for heating and/or cooling).

It's still in the investigative phase.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 8:05 PM by Rick 55

Reusse at the Star Trib with an article about the Vikes stadium. I agree 100% to save as much money as possible by not having a roof so we can lock up the Vikes for 30 years.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 9:45 PM by bmd Highlight this comment 56

bmd - if you can read fat pat reusse's filth and agree with any of it then i am sorry to say that you probably need your head examined.

he does nothing but take pot-shots at our pro sports team just to generate hits on his articles so his fat-arse can keep his job. pretty classless individual with not much writing talent if you ask me.


Posted on July 21, 2008 at 10:51 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 57

bmd - just to be clear. i wasn't commenting above^ on the merits of a new vikes stadium in downtown minneapolis one way or the other. for the sake of disclosure i am all for building a new retractable roof facility in downtown minneapolis.

i was purely sharing my well studied opinion on the waste of space & air that is pat reusse.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 10:57 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 58

rick (and really anyone else who wants to respond to this one),

those of us who have actually visited the site of the new twins ballpark fully understand that there is no smell emitted or harmful debris released by the HERC facility.

it is just steam and that is it.

that being said i would like to know your honest opinion on the following two questions considering you have followed this area pretty closely and also seem to know some people (twins org & otherwise) who would have a solid perspective on it.

1.) assuming they don't go and try to hook it up all over downtown more than it currently is will the HERC facility be moved to a new location somewhere else in downtown to open up that valuable space for more worthwhile development?

2.) if so, what do you see as a realistic timeline of this happening? 2 to 3 years? 5 years? More than 5 years?

thanks in advance to all who share their thoughts on this one!


Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:05 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 59

What the state should really do is buy a bunch of land in either the south metro such as Rosemount, Apple Valley, Burnsville (or even partner with Shakopee) or north metro such as Blaine and put a state-run casino in there with some hotels surrounded by a big parking lot. Put the stadium in the middle of that lot and let the proceeds of the casino pay for it.

Yes, this is easier said than done. But over the course of a few years, the casino revenues would raise so much money for the state. The land would be an investment and would appreciate in value. You might have some infrastructure issues to deal with as well, but the general idea behind such a plan would be a nice idea for the state.

It would also bring back tailgating. They could always expand the casino/hotel as well as add an amusement park or race track type of thing for the spring/summer months. Design the stadium so it can eventually add a roof when the economy (hopefully) turns around in a few years. This way you can get your Super Bowl and Final Four.

I realize this all sounds too good to be true right now and its much easier said than done, but the basic idea of building a state-run casino in the middle of a big lot with a stadium makes good sense to me. I would much rather have my casino money go towards the state than to the private Tribes. If you want to have big dividends pay off in the long term, you must be willing to invest initially and take some risks. I don't know why the state was so opposed to the Canterbury slots for the Twins stadium back in the 90's.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:22 PM by Mike Tlougan Highlight this comment 60

Betaband I agree with you reusse is bad I had to read it cuz the title was about the vikes stadium, if you have ever seen the sports show on sunday nights he is quit annoying but then again they all are.

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:25 PM by bmd Highlight this comment 61

bmd - yes, i have seen "the sports show" on the CW-Twin Cites on sunday nights. i do agree that it is usually quite annoying to listen to most of them, but primarily reusse.

sometimes the other hosts have some decent points they are making then reusse chims in like the retard he is and just ruins the show with his negative venom.

if i was on that show i would seriously tell pat to STFU just about every episode. i don't know how i wouldn't.

it is weird. it is almost like his fat-ass intimidates some of the other hosts. not sure why. he probably can't move too quick. reusse is like a sea manatee that somehow managed to learn how to walk upright and live on land!

Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:41 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 62


Posted on July 21, 2008 at 11:49 PM by bmd Highlight this comment 63

"a sea manatee" -- I'm laughing, too.

Before answering, Betaband, I should state that I have absolutely no inside knowledge on anything about the HERC plant. But I have eyes and ears and the ability to add up two and two.

First, I can't help but notice that the Twins decided to put expensive limestone on the western facade -- the side which is only visible from the HERC. In some ways it's a nicer facade than the one on Fifth Street, which will be seen by every rail rider and a lot of drivers. It's hard to imagine them doing this if they thought that side would remain unseen forever.

Further, at one Hennepin County Board meeting I attended, there was an interesting exchange in which Mike Opat all but came right out and said that the HERC would be gone in 10 years.

So I think everyone is making plans under the assumption that the HERC will eventually be moved or scrapped.

That could be affected by a lot of things. One of those is that many people consider the HERC experiment to have been a rousing success. They burn garbage (thus keeping it out of landfills) and generate some electricity as a result. All that is good.

But economics will always have the final say. By siting the stadium where they did, the county stands to reap quite a windfall someday from the sale of that land, even if they sell to the Twins.

Gee, I wonder if anybody realized that during the whole process...

As far as I'm concerned, that's THE perfect spot for the next ballpark. So whatever gets built there after the HERC is gone has to be something with a lifespan of 20-30 years. Certainly not housing, maybe retail (restaurants, souvenirs, etc.).

I think that a casino is a real longshot. Minnesotans love to gamble but they hate casinos. Go figure.

Plus, if the MLB won't put a franchise in Vegas because of the risk of betting on games, the Twins sure as hell won't want something like that in their back yard. (I also think there's some sort of a deal in place with the tribes about who can build casinos and where.)

My crystal ball isn't crystal clear on the subject. But I'd guess that after the new park has been open for two or three years, Hennepin County will decide to make some sort of major change to the HERC. This will trigger a bunch of deal-making. The Twins will buy the land and put something low-rise or maybe another plaza on it.

Just my guess.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 01:32 AM by Rick 64

Rick, if the Twins are now saying that they might be able to harness steam to create electricity for the ballpark or the plans for heating and/or cooling, what will happen when the HERC is gone? Will they have to rewire the place for regular electricity or heating/cooling units or just have a new power source when the HERC is gone and use all of the original pipes/wire?

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 04:15 AM by Tom Highlight this comment 65

I think the evolution of how they talk about the ballpark interacting with the HERC also supports the idea that they think it will one day be gone.

If they were getting steam to heat the seats, losing the HERC would be a big deal. But that notion was essentially DOA.

If all they're getting is electricity, well you can just turn up the juice somewhere else (so to speak) if that source goes away.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 10:17 AM by Rick 66

You know, if there is no 2nd webcam going in, can we at least get a single webcam with decent resolution? There is a lot of detail going on right now but you try to zoom in and you can't tell if you're playing an Atari game or watching ballpark construction.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 10:59 AM by Webcam Whiner Highlight this comment 67

Man we need a web cam!!! DSP is a fraud!!!

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 11:05 AM by Cal in Tempe Highlight this comment 68

Interesting article from the Downtown Journal, which adds some more food for thought in terms of what the area around the ballpark should be called.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 11:26 AM by Mo Highlight this comment 69

no kidding. he said way back in May that the 2nd webcam will be up "in the coming weeks" or something similar. he shoulda just said "eh, maybe this year"

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 11:44 AM by Don T Highlight this comment 70

I think that maybe we should take action, I am going to the target center 2marrow night for a concert and will scope out the area and wouldent it be funny if i got a web cam going and linked it to this site b4 Dave could get Telly to go hook one up

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 12:57 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 71

what's at the target center tomorrow night mazaratirick?

can an architect tell me why the entire steel structure is built cantilevered? On the model and renderings, it appears as though limestone-facade structure is underneath 80% of the restaurant and only the walkout balcony is truly cantilevered? if the whole thing is not going to look like it's floating, what's the use in building it that way?

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 1:46 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 72

Tom Petty

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 2:03 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 73

As I say, "The Waiting is the Hardest Part" for this new ballpark to open in 2010!

Also, my hope is that the HERC plant will indeed be "Free Fallin" within 10 years!

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 2:08 PM by The Heartbreaker Highlight this comment 74

And we can tell the yankees "dont come arond here no more"... ok that was just bad.. sorry

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 2:10 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 75

The Twins have been "Runnin' Down a Dream" for a long time now...

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 2:22 PM by Rick 76

I think that when the HERC is gone, they sould make some huge grand staircase stretching the whole length of the HERC side promenade. Maybe put some bars and shops down there or parking and people could congregate there on the staircase and promenade while waiting for the LRT. I think that a new stadium there in the future would have to also face the skyline, but why think about that now when we are so excited for this puppy to open up. We could keep it for more than 30 years, it's not like it's the Metrodome, it's outside and Yankee and Wrigley and Fenway are all gems. We could keep it for 60 or more. On another note, maybe they could remodel the top of the Multifoods building so that the top could taper off like the Wells Fargo Center and use cool lighting on it to accent the thing so it isn't so ugly. We are gonna be showing the ass-end of the skyline to the whole world, so I'll take whatever remodeling we can get of the shitstack.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 3:44 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 77

Woah, give the so-eloquently-titled "shitshack" a break. By the way, its given names are Multifoods Tower and 33 South Sixth if you haters ever feel so educationally inclined. Every skyline needs -and has- one of these. Denver's is even taller, and the color even more brown. Atlanta has two stumpy ones right next to each other. Without it's humble simplicity and grace-absent shell, we'd all have fatigue from cutsy glass and steel structures hovering over us. I guess in my opinion, tt really helps strike a balance.

At least we won't have the great wall of Thrivent staring back at the park...who approved that building anyway?

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 4:46 PM by JohnK Highlight this comment 78

The shitstack looks fine from other angles of the skyline when its behind other buildings but from the new ballpark angle it is the dominant building and that really sucks.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 4:53 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 79

Rick, I like the new photo for the website intro. I was looking at the web cam today, and it occurred to me that at some point construction will have to stop somewhere in left center field, so trucks and materials can enter the site. Does anybody know what the plan is exactly for this.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 4:54 PM by John Highlight this comment 80

Good job Rick with the new photo for the page heading! That is a nice perspective (that we haven't seen much of yet)looking to the north and east from outside the stadium behind homeplate.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 5:04 PM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 81

As I have said before, I would like the new Viking stadium where the HERC plant is. But it looks like the Vikes are going to want one before then, so in that case, I think a parking lot (WITH TAILGATING!) and a nice open plaza. Maybe some stadium souvineer shops?

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 6:30 PM by Brandon Highlight this comment 82

as much as i know some of you would like a vast parking lot for tailgating i just don't see the HERC space being used/sold for such a purpose. especially not outside a baseball stadium. if it was a football stadium then maybe that's a different story. there will be some kind of structure or structures built on it if and hopefully when the HERC facility is moved elsewhere in minneapolis.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 6:48 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 83

mplsgreg-I was wondering why the cantilever is so long as well, but I think because they could not support a big concrete form from below because there is a road there. Probably too much pressure in the middle of the plaza.

John-It is funny you mention the path for the trucks in center field. I was wondering why they were stalling so long out there with no progress. I noticed that on the original construction video, this part was done BEFORE some of the things that being done right now. I wonder if they forgot they needed a place to deliver materials? Surely they don't want trucks driving on the ground where they laid new concrete.... oh and coincidentally the link for the construction video doesn't work anymore on the Twins site.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 7:03 PM by Brian Highlight this comment 84

The Twins have updated the ballpark timeline (more details) my name to see.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 10:28 PM by MOJO Highlight this comment 85

JohnK, did you design the "multifoods" tower? Jeeez, if you're an architect why don't you take a break defending the ugliest building in MPLS and answer Brian and my question about the cantilever. Just kidding, but seriously, are you an architect?

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 10:31 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 86

thanks mojo. are you sure this is the most "up to date" version of the timeline?

the tearing down of the multifoods tower since it ruins a good portion of the view of the vastly superior wells fargo tower is not included anywhere in it!


Posted on July 22, 2008 at 10:56 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 87

Maybe when they blow up the Metrodome, they can also blow up the shitstack.

Posted on July 22, 2008 at 11:08 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 88

I must compliment you on the new banner, Rick. Thanks again for all the hard work you do to keep this site moving forward.

It makes the process much more exciting for us ballpark nerds.

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 07:36 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 89

Rick, Love the new banner as well, I have never really seen that angle yet.

Lets see, no 2nd web cam and now the vido stream is down...make you wonder whats going on over there on Puckett place

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 08:00 AM by Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 90

if i dont have to see the word shitstack in this forum again i'll be happy. it's a brown building, deal with it. how are the buildings beyond the outfields at wrigley? yankee stadium? real architectural wonders there? chicago has a ton of mundane, boring towers within their canyon of downtown skyscrapers. All cities do.

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 10:08 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 91


Posted on July 23, 2008 at 10:35 AM by John Highlight this comment 92

Stack of Shit

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 10:49 AM by Shitstack Highlight this comment 93

Let's just be thankful we will be in the great outdoors and will have buildings to look at rather than a white teflon roof surrounded by by blue seats in a very sterile environment.

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 11:32 AM by Mike Thompson Highlight this comment 94

Webcams are like fireworks you only need one.... and they are spendy!! come on down to the dome next week and the 1st 36 kids under 13 but over 12 get a mike lamb bat....offer ends 3 hours prior to gametime!

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 12:47 PM by Carl Pohlad Highlight this comment 95

Found a good site overview of the Northstar Ballpark Station on Flickr courtesy of Northstar Commuter Rail.

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 1:41 PM by Mo Highlight this comment 96

i need to find myself an "american 'league' girl"....

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 2:17 PM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 97

It looks like they put a flag up where the pitchers mound will be.

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 3:56 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 98

I'll I can say is, Francisco better be on the next bus headed for Cleveland!!

I think they should be able to find a spot now.

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 4:43 PM by Jon Highlight this comment 99

If they can't win on the road, this will be a long second half.

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 4:53 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 100

That is why I REALLY think we need to get a trade done for a veteran, power hitting 3B. I that, and maybe the addition of a set-up man like Arthur Rhodes, would put us over the top, and make winning on the road in places like BOS, CHI, NY, LA more likely...

I wouldn't mind parting with some youngsters because the team we currently have is VERY young. So we shouldn't need as much help from our minor leaguers...

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 6:26 PM by Brandon Highlight this comment 101

You know things are not going good when you get beat by SIDNEY PONSON of all guys...

Posted on July 23, 2008 at 11:10 PM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 102

Brandon, Arthur Rhodes? I've seen way too many games where that guy couldn't buy an out. Forget about it. After watching the Twins get swept by both Boston and New York within the last couple of weeks, it reminded me of every playoff series the Twins have been involved in this decade. Hang close for 5 or 6 innings, then collapse and lose. The team is just too young and too many mental mistakes. None of these young starters are ready to take the pressure that Jack Morris did in Game 7 in the 1991 World Series. Now 2010 could be a different story.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 01:42 AM by John Highlight this comment 103

Just to add, I do know that the only series this decade that the Twins won was against Oakland. Then they lost to the Angels, who went on to win the World Series.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 01:50 AM by John Highlight this comment 104

Im not sure what your favorite team is but mine is the twins, and the twins are never buyers in the trade market only sellers... so everybody can get it out of thier head that a trade is going to happen. The twins have needed a power hitting righty for atleast 7 years now and they always stand pat... why go trade and up the payroll when these cheap kids are doing much better than expected? that is the Twins way...
there is a better chance of brett farve quarterbacking the vikes in lambu on monday night football this year than the twins making a move for any thing other than a "jeff cirillo" type...honestly I dont even think they will do that.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 07:47 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 105

Can Brett Favre hit home runs from the right side of the plate? Maybe the Twins should sign him.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 08:56 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 106

Quick update from the ballpark authority:
Closures: Ballpark construction requires closing two lanes at the east end of the 7th Street Bridge by the intersection with 3rd Avenue North to allow for slab construction of the Team Store. There’ll be numerous trucks pulling up to off-load materials.

The closures are Friday-July 25th at 5 am until 3pm and Monday-July 28th from 5am to 3pm. One lane of through traffic will remain open but the 7th Street Bridge sidewalk will close to pedestrians.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 09:05 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 107

They just got done pouring the cement for the first level of the administrative building in left field.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 10:26 AM by Tom Highlight this comment 108

J2K-- Do you know when the 5th street bridge is supposed to re-open to pedestrians?

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 1:13 PM by N. Looper Highlight this comment 109

I did not know that the back wall of the Twins' dugout will be covered with limestone...That will definitely be a unique attribute to this ballpark.

I heard that on the FSN Qwest Twins Live pre-game show yesterday when Anthony Lapanta and Kevin Smith toured the new Twins ballpark.

Smith also mentioned that the next big milestone for the ballpark construction would be the topping off when the canopy begins to go up. Wasn't able hear when that would be but I would assume later this year.

It was also interesting to note why the Twins' dugout will now be on the first base side rather than third base side due to the fact that there is much more depth on the first base side of the ballpark to allow for a bigger and better clubhouse unlike the third base side of the ballpark.

I am excited about the limestone wall in the dugout though! That will be very unique.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 3:04 PM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 110


Posted on July 24, 2008 at 3:28 PM by 2ND WEBCAM GUY Highlight this comment 111

Yeah definitely like the limestone walls in the dugouts.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 3:43 PM by bmd Highlight this comment 112

i like the limestone in the dugout...but where will they put the ever important advertising?

I'd like to reiterate the concern for some night time renderings. I think it would be cool to have some exterior mood/accent lighting,shone onto the limestone. Maybe orange, ala Stone Arch bridge and Wells Fargo center...

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 4:50 PM by haasertime Highlight this comment 113

has anyone ever listened to the little audio clips "build up to the ballpark" on the new ballpark website? WOW are they ever useless... it takes many words to say nothing. It would probably take the same time and cost to run to best buy to purchase and install a 2nd webcam. i'm just sayin'...

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 7:04 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 114

night time renderings and more recent renderings...the ones on their site are old. this is the public's ballpark, let's get on with the promised 2nd webcam and some updated renderings twins.

Posted on July 24, 2008 at 7:04 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 115

mmmm.....limestone donuts...yummmm

oh wait you said limestone dugouts didn't you.

my bad! please proceed.


Posted on July 24, 2008 at 10:50 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 116

luke h., i thought most teams had their dugout on the 1st base side, but it's split 50/50 in the american league. guess the twins just liked being further away from the garbage burner...

Posted on July 25, 2008 at 11:15 AM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 117

more limestone pics? Anyone?

Posted on July 25, 2008 at 11:18 AM by Limestone Highlight this comment 118

Any word whether they are planning on extending the ped bridge up to 1st ave?
I really hope they aren't planning on adding stairs where it currently ends... C'mon guys, one more block!!

Posted on July 25, 2008 at 11:25 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 119

I could be mistaken per i had a few in me when i was looking at the ped bridge wend night when i was there but it looks like at the angle that its sloping down that it would cut off the garage door @ target center if it contiuned any more twords 1st ave... I could have been mistaken and it was dark out but that is what stuck out to me when i was standing next to it.

Posted on July 25, 2008 at 12:26 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 120

Yes, more limestone pics please! I'm dying w/o MOJO's weekly pics! On the webcam, it looks like the limestone is all the way up on the far side of the walking ramps, but I can't tell because of the angle! This is why we NEED more webcams!!! One on each side of the stadium please!!!

Posted on July 25, 2008 at 3:42 PM by Brandon Highlight this comment 121

We need daily upgrades of every possible angle inside and out of the whole place. C'mon photographers! Step up to the plate and deliver in the clutch...just like our 2008 Twins. :-)

Posted on July 25, 2008 at 5:05 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 122

I suggest having a special padding along the outfield walls so guys like Denard Span and myself do not get hurt since we are such crazy and energetic players who like to run into the walls...

Posted on July 26, 2008 at 12:37 AM by Carlos Gomez Highlight this comment 123

Your English was to good to be Carlos Gomez.

Posted on July 26, 2008 at 11:35 AM by Limestone Highlight this comment 124

Hey Carlos, go go to Rochester and send Liriano back this direction when you get there.

Posted on July 26, 2008 at 12:06 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 125

Another new article and video about the ridiculous skyway-camera debacle.

Posted on July 26, 2008 at 2:57 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 126

DSP said in his July 5, 2008 blog update that "Fans will enjoy views of the ballpark construction site when a second Ballpark Webcam is installed on the Ford Centre in the near future". Well I'm gonna see how long the "near future" is for him. Today is day 21 and still no webcam!

Posted on July 26, 2008 at 3:10 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 127

What these security morons don't realize is that the Twins and Mortensen have blueprints online. Anyone can access them and blow the place up if they want. This is all about control freaks, not security.

Posted on July 26, 2008 at 4:03 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 128

Limestone said "Your English was....TO...good to be Carlos Gomez." I think we found our real Carlose Gomez. :)

Posted on July 26, 2008 at 11:57 PM by JohnK Highlight this comment 129

Looking at the webcam; is that a giant flag pole I see planted on the pitcher's mound, or what?

Posted on July 27, 2008 at 12:55 PM by Joe S. Highlight this comment 130

Here's my take on the whole ramp security crack down:
This has nothing to do with a possible terrorist attack on the new stadium. This is all about keeping vagrants and panhandlers out of the skyway system. If they allow people to loiter, take photos and sightsee from the ramps, then they also lose the justification to tell the street people to "move along". I don't like it, but I guess I understand it. They really do need to make an attempt to clean up the aggressive panhandling down there. The last time I was at a Wolves game with my kid, he got pretty freaked out with the people begging us for money. If they want to make "Twinsville" a go-to place for fans with families, something's got to change.

Posted on July 27, 2008 at 3:04 PM by luckylager Highlight this comment 131


I think there is a big difference between panhandlers and people just wanting to see the progress of the new stadium.

Why should the city stop at just banning people using cameras. Heck they might as well just say no to cellphones, PDAs, IPods, and all other electronic devices being used in the skyways. I find it funny that a couple innocent people taking pictures of the new stadium has caused this big security concern when panhandling and other things have been around for quite some time.

Posted on July 27, 2008 at 5:51 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 132

I can't wait. Gorgeous Minnesota July night 2010. Minneapolis skyline shining bright as everyone is focused on the stunning park in the city. Twins finish up a close one in the 9th. Fireworks go off as the cameras switch to a blimp floating above with a beautiful shot of the park and downtown.

Posted on July 27, 2008 at 7:28 PM by Evan Highlight this comment 133

^^cant wait!

Posted on July 27, 2008 at 10:21 PM by Jared Highlight this comment 134

Still no updated limestone pics?!

Posted on July 27, 2008 at 10:31 PM by Brandon Highlight this comment 135

No limestone pics, but a few new ones of the skyline from the ballpark site over at minnescraper.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 01:26 AM by Tom Highlight this comment 136

Link Link Link

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 01:56 AM by Link Highlight this comment 137

Click name for link to minnescraper...

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 04:15 AM by Tom Highlight this comment 138


That all sounds nice except for .... are you bringing your own fireworks?... i dont know if they will spring for fireworks

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 07:51 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 139

Went to the site Sat. The limestone is almost to the top of the bldg now. It goes up to about the base of the grey elevator tower. No change horizontally yet... Sorry no pics as I destroyed my camera. I'll start taking pics when I get a new camera that actually works! Hopefully that will be soon. Any suggestions for a reasonably priced camera...?

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 09:34 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 140

I also noticed that the pro shop had a lot of sand put on the floor. There was a street sweeper there cleaning all the sand off the street. It looked like it was several loads. Must be a base for a new floor as it appears that the floor will be about a foot or two higher than the plaza is.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 09:40 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 141

So Thursday night I was at Wrigley for a game. I was in Chicago for a wedding and the rehearsal dinner was at a restaraunt and then a game at wrigley.

Now this was my first trip there. And I have to say that it waspretty awesome.... kind of. You could tell that it had so much rich history and that teh people there loved it. But at the same time it was a pain in the ass for the most part. Dont' get me wrong I hope they never leave there and it never goes away. The winding concrete ramps and the railings the supports all of it was really cool. But the thing I liked best was being outside. it was fantastic. That said..... there are a few things that I didn't like... none of which have to do with the ballpark itself.

First of all Cubs fans are a bunch of D-bags. I thought I was at an oakland raiders football game for a while. I've never heard such foul language in front of kids. I'm not talking about a few effenheimers. I'm talking make a sailor blush kind of stuff. And not even be aware.... and then when someone says something they half heartedly say "Oh sorry" and then jump right back into it. I guess I just expected more out of them. I thought they were the better crowd of teh two teams down there. Apparently not. I don't expect anyone to act like an angel but sheesh....

Secondly somethign I noticed would probably put Nick Coleman in tears. Not so much in the ballpark but around it and basically on any street corner in the city is the most god awful stench rising up out of the sewers. Who were the people that decided to build a city around a sewer system anyway????

Anyway I really did have a good time at Wrigley I know all fans have their wackos but it was pretty crazy what people were willing to spout off about down there. I did absolutely have a fantastic time gazing out over the city sitting in my seat outside watching baseball.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 10:59 AM by moda253 Highlight this comment 142

I am heading to the site tomorrow ... I will post my usual 50-60 pics when I get back.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 11:45 AM by MOJO Highlight this comment 143


Last year, I went to a game at Wrigley vs. the Giants. The game Bonds went yard twice. That was the most fun I've had at a "meaningless" ballgame, and really didn't have ANY problems. The worst I got out of the fans were these two sitting in front of me were BIG Ryan Theriot fans, and everytime he did anything, they would stand, hold up his jersey yelling "RRRYYYYAAAAANNNNN" obnoxiously (they were drunk). It wasn't bad, just got annoying. And there were the fans with the "*" signs for Bonds, but no fowl language or obnoxious remarks were made around me. I think some fans got pissed at me when I stood a clapped for him after hitting both HR's (I believe someone is innocent until proven guilty) because I was witnessing part of baseball history! As for the smell, I noticed it REALLY bad when we were downtown by Sears Tower, but never at the stadium. We actually had that nice, after-rain shower smell.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 11:56 AM by Brandon Highlight this comment 144

Rick, the american flag pole on the pitcher's mound looks like the one from the old Met...Could it be? I can't tell from the shitty webcam resolution.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 1:49 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 145

Well Brandon all I can say is that I'm happy that you didn't have the same experience we did.

It was pretty pathetic and I was suprised by it too because I had heard that Chicago fans were some of the classiest fans in the game. Guess not at this game. It was pretty bad. So bad an older gentlman sitting next to me kept shaking his head and left in the 6th.

I know every team has their fans but this was ridiculous. Would not bring a kid there again until I saw a different behavior from the fans on a somewhat consistant basis.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 2:06 PM by moda253 Highlight this comment 146

Thanks Tom they look good! Thats the best view of the skyline left field seats.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 2:21 PM by Link Highlight this comment 147

Not to turn this into a Cubs or Wrigley thread, but moda - it's nice to know you'll write off a whole fan base based on one game. I've been to countless Cubs games at Wrigley (even had season tickets back in the early to mid '80's), and only seen that behavior a few times (and usually only at Cubs/Cards games). As noted (by you even!), all teams have their fans (heck, I've been to Vikings games where the fans are out of control). Don't write off an entire fan base on one game (or even a couple of fans at one game). That's just ignorant.

As to the sewers - they're SEWERS (and in Chicago, likely century old sewers)! What are they supposed to smell like? Man, talk about hard to please!


Posted on July 28, 2008 at 2:22 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 148

Wrigley is something of a lovable armpit.

I've never really had any totally bad experiences there, but I'll never forget the one and only game when I sat in the bleachers. "Drunk and disorderly" does not even BEGIN to describe the scene.

It was fun, but that's not really my thing. I was scoring the game (as I always do) and got asked over and over just what the heck I was writing down. These people were clearly there to PARTY. The baseball game was barely on anybody's radar.

Things are different in the main grandstand -- especially the upper deck. That's where the real baseball fans are. The lower deck -- especially down the lines -- is for people entertaining guests or clients.

I've had a mixed collection of experiences in the main grandstand. I have:

- Sat next to a life-long Cubs fan who couldn't stop talking about Ron Santo

- Been kicked out of the good seats by an eagle-eyed usher

- Waited out a rain delay with just a few thousand other folks who were all chattering about the Cubs' pitching

- Seen a Cubs walk-off win in extra innings long after dark

- Been crammed elbow-to-elbow with business people who didn't give a rip about the game

Watching a game there can be tough if you're in the wrong spot (such as at the back of the lower deck where the retro-fitted suites completely block your view of the sky). But I always get there early, stay late, and spend a lot of time soaking up the neighborhood atmosphere. I'm convinced that the neighborhood is what makes that such a special place (along with all the genuine baseball history, of course).

Never noticed the stench, but it certainly doesn't surprise me. The sewers elsewhere in downtown Chicago are frighteningly fragrant.

Overall, most of the folks I've encountered there have been good-natured, but there have been times when it felt like a powder keg about to explode.

The south side was a completely different thing, but that's another story...

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 2:26 PM by Rick 149


The old Met Stadium flagpole is still standing in front of the American Legion in Richfield. I'm sure there will be some press when it finally gets moved.

Last I heard, the team had talked to the Legion members and got their OK to take it in exchange for a new flagpole. That was almost a year ago now. I'm sure it will be one of the last things in the project.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 2:29 PM by Rick 150

I'm going down tonight to get some sunset photos of the limestone. Should have those posted tomorrow, along with a few stragglers from my inside tour.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 2:32 PM by Rick 151

I lived in Evanston, IL for a period of time and have been to dozens of baseball games, both at Wrigley and Old and New Comiskey.

First of all, this is Chicago. Chicago is a huge city with many people living on top of and right next to eachother. Chicago smells. It always has. Chicago was once a cestpool. For years the Chicago river flowed into lake Michigan making it a large toilet of sewage. The city then reversed the flow of the river and all the waste flows downstate. When you have a nice hot, humid day and the wind is blowing out of the south/southwest you have the very distinct stench of the old stockyards. Again, this is all Chicago and is part of its charm. Downtown what you typically smell is the air flowing up through the vents from the subway along State St. Subways smell in all cities, especially Chicago in the summertime.

My main point, do go visiting one of the country's largest cities in July and expect it to smell like roses. Chicago never has and never will.

As for Cubs fans, they have a great core fanbase. But half of the delegation at Wrigley on any given day is from somewhere else. Many are casual baseball fans in town to see Wrigley as a tourist attraction. Mix their lack of knowledge of the hometown team with lots of beer and you get what you encountered moda. A lot of it depends on where you sit. Upper level at wrigley is 50/50. Lower level people are a bit more civil, but the bleachers? Well, Rick said it best. They are nuts in the bleachers - always have been and always will be so beware.

That being said, Wrigley is still a better experience than Fenway or Yankee Stadium in my opinion. I've experienced all 3 and I'll take a day at Wrigley followed by a walk to Lou Malnati's anyday over overrated, cramped, uncomfortable Fenway with lousy food and even more obnoxious fans.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 3:27 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 152

Moose yeah I'm ripping an entire fanbase based on one game there. It's the only game I've been to. I admitted that I would definately go to more games there and see if it was a one time incident. I'm telling you what I experienced in Chicago. Having drunken idiots screaming obsceneities into a kids ear all game long doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies that I was told I would experience there.

So yeah for now I'm writing off the majority of the Cub fanbase. Because for teh most part..... that's what I saw. They can thank their fellow fans for that.

Other than that part of the game everythign else about the experience was great. However I'm happy that we will be getting an outdoor ballpark with full ammeneties and an updated facility. Albeit without the history that Wrigley has. Hopefully we don't have the experience there that I had in Chicago either.

Sorry if you think I'm wrong for coming away with that impression but that is what I came away with. Apologies for offending you by my being offended by offensive behavior.

Booo chicago.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 3:27 PM by moda253 Highlight this comment 153

Oh and also I totally understand about teh smell in Chicago. It was more tongue in cheek about being able to find an unpleasant odor in a city is not hard to do contrary to Nick Coleman's beliefs.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 3:30 PM by moda253 Highlight this comment 154

I just hope the Brew Crew sweeps the Cubs out of Miller Park...starting tonight with C.C. on the mound...

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 3:36 PM by John Brumley Highlight this comment 155

I was wondering if anyone knew the color of glass they were planning on using for the stadium. I'm just curious if anyone has seen anything.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 3:46 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 156

Can't wait for the pics from Rick and MOJO tomorrow. Wiil they be linked by 7:00 am?
I'll be at Coors Field next Wednesday night. That will be my sampler platter before LOL Field opens in 2010. I'll post my report when I get back. I'm sure you all will be anxious to hear what I thought.

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 4:05 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 157

Green.. im just guessing though ...

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 4:09 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 158

moda - there's nothing wrong with being offended by offensive behavior. As noted, I've been offended by Vikings fans (plus I'll throw in Gopher fans, SCSU fans, UMD fans and the like), but I'm not small mided like others here that believe ALL fans of said team are the same. That's just IGNORANT. Look it up in Websters (nevermind - I did it for you (click on my link)).

And as to you Brumley - nice to see a good Brewer fan like you that got CC's memo on the (lack of) periods.


Posted on July 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 159

Maybe the other webcam will be up and running by the next blog entry by DSP, otherwise he should have waited until the next one to get all of our hopes up...We can only hope. But he needs something to write about in his next blog entry that we will probably already know about for about a week before he announces it on the site, what better than him finally announcing the webcam is up and running. But it will probably have to do with the anniversary of the I-35W collapse or maybe he will wait all the way until the end of August and say something about the anniversary of the groundbreaking and how far the park has come...

Posted on July 28, 2008 at 5:00 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 160

I really love this site! On rail transportation concerns, just returned from a trip that included games in NYC. Took the train back after a Phils-Mets game at Shea & saw the mass of people going towards the subway station & thought that we'd be stuck here for an hour or more (we came out at 1B side, station at 3B-OF side). Pleasantly surprised that we kept moving (albeit not a brisk pace) but didn't have to stop once. We were on the train in about 10-15 minutes. Granted the trains are much bigger than our LRT & I think they do send backup cars to the area to handle the crowd. Maybe Twins park will have a staging area/platforms on the other side of the 5th Street bridge to handle the crowds.

Posted on July 29, 2008 at 3:09 PM by Jeff 'n StPaul Highlight this comment 161

Hi Rick - Congrats!!! -I am sure you are busy with the birth of the young fella - I just saw this time lapse footage posted this morning.



Posted on August 13, 2008 at 11:03 AM by Charlie Quirk Highlight this comment 162

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"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3037 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.

The view from section 210

Another B ramp glimpse (don't loiter here!)

This is what I was working on while my photo was taken (click to see a VERY BIG version).

(Click to enlarge.)

Photo by Jeff Ewer (Click to enlarge.)

Nine spots for hops bats.

Two plazas in Spain. (Brad and I were pretending to steal coins from the fountain. We were all just so darn funny back in high school, eh?)

What can you see from up there? Some say not much.

Wayfinding within the B ramp is still a work in progress.

In addition to the Pro Shop facade, you can see more gravel being laid before the final plaza surface is poured.

Hardware in the window! (But why are there three trophies? 1924?)

The littlest Twins fan: Truman

The proposed wooden screen covering the circulation ramp on Fifth Street (at left is the equivalent screen on Seventh Street).

The former Ford manufacturing plant (now Ford Centre).

A little higher angle shows how the two stations are close to one another but distinctly separate. The oval, glass-enclosed area is the entrance from the Northstar platform below into the ballpark. The LRT platform is comparable to the other stations along that route.

Here's the current overview from the south side of the B ramp (from which the banner at the top of this page was culled).

The season was perfectly bookended by Mick Sterling on the plaza

The dessert carts came out earlier, and looked even better than last year.

The Polo Grounds (left) and Shibe Park (Connie Mack Stadium)

One thing that the design disguises nicely is that the Pro Shop (and other key components) are actually built over lanes of freeway. That can clearly be seen here.

This is a slightly blurry view of the pavilion in center. It has a quirky shape, but one which is completely consistent with the overall ballpark design. Nice work there. You can also get a glimpse of the greenery which will rise above the fences.

Section A, Row WC

Gate 6 is quite large

A few weeks ago there were sand volleyball courts here. When the park opens, this will be surface parking. Maybe one day there will be something more interesting built on top of that parking...

Detail of the train tunnels (click to view the entire drawing)

Good seats, but no scoreboard or sky.

The main ticketing area beneath the restaurant.

No griping here.

Love the lighted, translucent panel

The plaza as viewed from across the park. The right field overhang section will be built just in from where the plaza supports are.


BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis


First Edition (1992)

Second Edition (2006)


Selected Bibliography - Surveys


Second Edition (1987)

Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title

(2000, large coffee table)

Original edition (2000, round)

Revised edition (2006, round)

(2001, medium coffee table)

(2002, small coffee table)

(2003, medium coffee table)

(2004, very large coffee table)

(2006, very large coffee table)

Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia


Book and six ballpark miniatures

Complete Bibliography

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