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Accidental Preview

August 16, 2007 8:52 PM

These shots aren't very glamorous, and they didn't last long on the site, but they did come from the official Twins new ballpark page. This was probably intended as a test of the gallery before it goes live sometime in the future.

Clearly, these are photos of an incomplete model, so don't get too worked up about anything you see. But I bet the model seen under construction here is the same one which will be unveiled at the ground-breaking on August 30. And I bet that it features some design elements which have changed -- in some cases quite dramatically -- since the first round of drawings were released last spring.

You'll note, for example, that a very unique pavilion has been developed for right-center, looking not unlike something you might see at Fenway. The left field pavilion has also changed shape, although I bet the model isn't quite done in that area.

(Let's all say a quiet 'thank you' to whoever invented the browser cache...)

New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 1
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 2
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 3
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 4
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 5
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 6
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 7
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 8
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 9
New Twins Ballpark - Model Preview 10

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No wonder they took these shots off their website, these incomplete models looks awful. The cantilevered left field that we saw in the initial renderings were some of the best section of seats in the ballpark. Having the small section of seats hanging over the bullpen feels gaudy. Why can't they just add more seats above the second level in left field instead of placing them out to center? This is worse than Citi Field's disjointed left field.

There isn't enough seating down the firstbase line, there's a gap in the second level down the thirdbase line. (Not a good idea to copy anything from GABP)

I know it's not finished but the Twins and HoK need to get their acts together.

Posted on August 16, 2007 at 9:23 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 1

Here is a link to the finished model of PNC Park.

Posted on August 16, 2007 at 10:01 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 2

I wouldn't overreact, it's an incomplete model afterall, no color, no detail. Maybe that third base side gap is an extension of the promenade. But I agree that great american is probably the most disappointing of the new parks. You're going to lose some good seat locations in order to cram as many suites and premium seating as you can. The average fan loses out, although we'll be a lot closer to the field level. The left-field upperdeck still appears to have an overhang or at least isn't set back, which is good. And that right-center seating reminds me of coors field. I don't think it's a cookie-cutter design, though. It's unique because of it's compact site.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 08:38 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 3

The 'gap' is hardly like Great American's gap. If you look at the floor plans on the Twins' website, that section of seats in the club level down the left field line aren't actually club seats. The concourse will go through the 'office' building and attach to the second level seating concourse.

Plus, I'm pretty sure there's going to be more seats out in left field.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 09:55 AM by Alex B Highlight this comment 4

I have heard the gap down the 3rd base line mentioned a few times and it is simply a seperation of the Club seats and the party suites. There is also a minor seperation on the first base side. I also think the model is incomplete and there will be more added to the upper deck in left field.

The part that I really don't like is how the seats in right field hang over the right field fence. I wonder how that's going to work.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 10:16 AM by MOJO Highlight this comment 5

This is a link to Japan's Osaka Dome. Notice that they put the luxury boxes above the upper deck seats. A concept foreign to American ballparks.

Tim, just because a ballpark site is small doesn't make it unique. The new ballpark exterior facade is unique, but HoK's seating behind homeplate and down the lines is nothing new. This seating arrangement has been done in almost every HoK ballpark since 1990.

Sorry, but I have high expectations.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 10:28 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 6

Here is a shot of Citi Field. Look familiar?

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 10:41 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 7

Dude you sound like a nagging Wife its only a rough look at the stadium just relax man take a mydol

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 12:42 PM by Jonny Highlight this comment 8

I'm sure this isn't a finished model, but it's great to see so much interest in the changes that are being made, and it's also good to know that the Twins are exhausting different ideas. The center field area is totally a takeoff of Coors or Wrigley.

I agree that the seats above the bullpens are cheezy and that left field should look similar to the original drawings, representing the Met. But the overhang in right could become a unique feature. Having a power hitting lefthander like Morneau could lead to a lot of Twins homeruns " being robbed" by the fans...Reminds me of Tiger Stadium.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 12:54 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 9

O.K. Calm down everyone. Let's wait for the finished model. Personally, I can't think of any stadium with so many outfield seats so close to the field. Let's just wait for the 30th. Outdoor baseball is just around the corner.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 4:29 PM by Andrew Highlight this comment 10

granted these are rough, but i agree with what has been said about left field. the homage to the met was beautiful. it looks like that part wasn't done yet in the modeling phase, so i'm not ready to get whacked out about it.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 4:52 PM by cj Highlight this comment 11

I noticed they do not even have the diamond displayed on that model, so it's definitely in the works. I am not a big fan of the new LF grandstand (liked the one in the previous renderings in April better)

On a side note...does anyone know which dugout will be the Twins? Rumor has it, they are switching to the first base side, but I don't know if that is confirmed or not. Supposedly some floor plans had the Twins clubhouse on the first base side of the stadium.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 5:04 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 12

I have been told by many that the Twins are returning to the First base side like it was at Metropolitan Stadium.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 6:58 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 13

"The part that I really don't like is how the seats in right field hang over the right field fence. I wonder how that's going to work."

Yeah I know what you mean. Thats the part the stood out to me too. From the model it looks like a pretty substantial overhang but you can't really tell from the angle. If its a significant overhang at all it'll steal alot of warning track flyballs and probably come across as gimmicky and annoying just like everything about the metrodome is. If it's small enough not to affect the game it could be a pretty unique feature though.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 10:14 PM by Dan Highlight this comment 14

I think that the seats need to be navy blue like the PNC model, I will be very disappointed if they are not.

Posted on August 17, 2007 at 10:40 PM by Tom Highlight this comment 15

What I would like to know is what is the advantage of the split upper deck? I notice the new St. Louis ballpark has this as well. You would think having a solid upper tier would increase the number of seats. Is the split just so that the upper concourse is open? If so, who cares??? I really only thought the lower concourse was to be open.

The split upper deck looks odd to me but I'm trying to like it. TRYING.

Posted on August 18, 2007 at 12:28 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 16

like the green seats personally - blue reminds me of the metrodome... dirty dirty metrodome

Posted on August 18, 2007 at 02:15 AM by Dan Highlight this comment 17

green seats are too camden yards. I would like dark blue or red...one of the team colors.

Posted on August 18, 2007 at 1:02 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 18

Fear not, as you can see in page 8 of the linked PDF from Greet Machine, there are clearly more seats to come in the LF bleachers.

Posted on August 18, 2007 at 5:49 PM by Alex B Highlight this comment 19

I agree, I don't mind an overhang but it must be done in a way as to not give up cheap homeruns or be a gimmic. I want a timeless design, not something that will get old after a couple years. As far as green seats, anything that isn't metrodome blue is fine.

Posted on August 18, 2007 at 10:42 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 20

I think that the pine tree should be switched to a waterfall like minnehaha falls like the picture I have linked.

Posted on August 19, 2007 at 08:46 AM by Tom Highlight this comment 21

I think this picture is more appropriate

Posted on August 20, 2007 at 10:17 AM by DD Highlight this comment 22

$23.8 mil. land value. Sanity rules, thankfully.

Posted on August 20, 2007 at 10:35 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 23

its a good day for minnesota twins but its not over yet

Posted on August 20, 2007 at 11:49 AM by tomeko Highlight this comment 24

These model photos are still on The Twins website. The just moved them. If you click on renderings, you'll see "view other galleries". IT's in there.

Posted on August 20, 2007 at 9:49 PM by John Highlight this comment 25

Rick....What do you think of the seats that hang over the field in right?

Posted on August 20, 2007 at 10:48 PM by MOJO Highlight this comment 26

The Greet Machine has reported that the condemnation price is ruled 23.8, million, which way more in the County and the Twins' favor. On the subject at hand, I like how it's looking like Fenway.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 1:23 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 27

Fenway? Please, the only similarity to Fenway is the new Twins park left field corner seats could be worse than Fenway's right field corner. Let's hope the Twins angle those seats so fans won't have to strain their necks to see the infield.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 1:57 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 28

Any word on the "halo" of lights vs. twin light towers in the outfield??

From the model pics it looks like the halo is still there, but what about the towers in the outfield to bridge the building/sky?

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 2:37 PM by ?? Highlight this comment 29

of course seats will be angled. this isn't a football stadium.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 3:35 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 30

Laferty, Pls give Tim the link of Petco's angled seats.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 4:39 PM by John Highlight this comment 31

I don't like the park at all. I could draw a better park on a coctail napkin after 12 shots. Why is HOK so against cantilevered decks. The upper deck is farther away than the domes and the seat angles still aren't that great.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 4:48 PM by John Highlight this comment 32

MOJO -- I'm not against the idea of the overhang. We'll have to see how far it is and if it ventures into "gimmick" territory.

Lafferty -- I'm told that the angle of the aisles is NOT indicative of the angle of the seats. It's hard to imagine that they'd point those seats in the direction of the aisles.

John -- Send me your cocktail napkin drawing. Sometimes I feel the same way about the configuration of this park, what with its emphasis on luxury boxes and the presence of some potentially terrible cheap seats. I'm studying the blueprints now (thanks to Shane over at Greet Machine) and trying to determine the actual distances from home plate for some of the worst seats.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 5:04 PM by Rick 33

John, attached is a wideshot of Petco. As you can barely see, these corner seats are angled toward the infield. There's still hope for the same thing to happen at the new Twins park, but it looks to be difficult due to the small size of our site and the bell shaped outfield with limited foul territory.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 5:17 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 34

John, check out the attached profile comparison of the proposed Cisco Field in the Bay Area, versus AT&T Park. Cisco is in yellow, AT&T in grey. Guess which one wasn't designed by HoK?

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 5:24 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 35

Here is another profile of Cisco compared to AT&T.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 5:25 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 36

HoK does use cantilevered decks, in fact the Twins park will have them throughout the park, however we obviously won't have as much of an overhang like RFK's cantilevered decks. An overhang like Yankee Stadium can be a negative for people sitting in the upper decks down the foul lines. Check out this pic of Yankee Stadium and notice that many seats don't have views of the outfield corners below the deck. Kind of like in the Metrodome seats above the baggy where you can't see the righfielder below.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 5:34 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 37

I wish they would use catilevered decks too. I assume there is a simple reason why they don't. They would obscure the sky view of the luxury boxes between decks. It's all about the bottom dollar, and those boxes bring in plenty. In a nutshell, a small number of luxery boxes create a large amount of seats that are pushed back and high up from field level. An example, although the old Comiskey Park was beam supported, the last row in old Comsiskey was closer than the new ballparks first row. I sat in those, and they're terrible seats.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 6:07 PM by John Highlight this comment 38

I got an image from Dan Kenney at the Ballpark Authority which shows how the seat angles at Petco do not match the aisle directions. This has become quite common, and it's how the Twins will install their seating.

I have been reassured by many people on multiple occasions that EVERY seat in the park will face the infield.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 7:15 PM by Rick 39

Another example with a different problem is Wrigley Field. The luxury boxes that were put in hang at the end of the beam supported deck. If you've ever sat in the upper portion of the lower level of Wrigley, you can't see the sky nor the big scoreboard in center field. The luxury boxes above and in front of you block the view. They've installed very small auxiliary digital scoreboards with score, count and inning only for reference (small tv's too). Not being able to see that huge green scoreboard during the game is a real shame.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 7:20 PM by John Highlight this comment 40

Cantilevered upper decks are great in principle, but look at the linked photo. That's the view from the seats at the back of the lower deck at Wrigley Field.

They are not bad, I suppose, if you don't mind losing view of essentially every fly ball...

(We got out of these seats pretty quickly after the game started...)

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 7:22 PM by Rick 41

All these problems and adjustments to design because of.........luxury boxes. That is the real shame for the majority of the fans who take in a game at the park.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 7:38 PM by John Highlight this comment 42

I love the cantilevered decks at Dodger Stadium. Not a bad seat in that ballpark, even though it is much larger than most parks. Another link for y'all.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 8:14 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 43

Here's an example of Metropolitan Stadiums catilevered main grandstand. As Archie and Edith would sing..."those were the days".

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 8:53 PM by John Highlight this comment 44

coca-cola jacket day with my dad...thanks for the memories! i'd like to have some nod to the met in the new park. the met always seemed like it was made from an erector set. the sounds bounced off everything. bat day was a riot.

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 9:56 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 45

Great job with all the picture links guys...cool to be able to see what youre describing.

Rick...any word on the seat color? I really like that dark blue that Petco has...works for the Twins colors. Are we thinking that green is the choice given the model??

Posted on August 21, 2007 at 11:07 PM by J Highlight this comment 46

I was at Sunday's game and talked to a lady with the Twins new ballpark exhibit and asked her about the seat color. She said that "Fenway Green" was decided for the color of the seats. I don't know if that is "official" or not, but as from the models and floor plans (with green colors as well), it sure seems that the seats will be green. I think the green seats are too common in new parks such as Camden Yards, Jacobs Field, Safeco Field, Ballpark in Arlington, Miller Park, Citi Field, US Cellular Field, and even the historic Wrigley Field has green seats.

I still think to this day that the dark blue seats such as PNC Park, Citizens Bank Park, Petco Park, Nationals Ballpark, and Kauffmann Stadium are the way to go! Dark blue has always been a Twins/Senators color and it should have been displayed in the new ballpark!

On another note...that Metrodome roof sure came in handy for the 1987 reunion weekend series! Hopefully we won't regret the roof in 2011 when we celebrate the 1991 20-year anniversary!

Lets just be thankful for the new ballpark that we will have in 2010! We will go from one of the worst ballparks(if not, the worst) to hopefully one of the best!

Posted on August 22, 2007 at 1:31 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 47

how long does it take?

Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM by panocha Highlight this comment 48

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Uh oh. A code of conduct. Clearly posted. I'm not gonna mention any names, but you know who you are... (Click to enlarge.)






This terrible picture shows the netting in place through a knothole on Fifth



Work in progress.






Emergency access viewed in context



A view into the Legend's Club






Work has begun on the plaza, and the activity has started to impact I-394 traffic.












A peek through a tiny gate.



Some baseball legends (and Ron Coomer)



The Hrbek gate is directly below. It's a lively place after a game.



No admittance -- yet! Note that you can see the seating bolts which are in place already.






Shibe Park



Looking up toward Sixth Street.



This is the plaza as viewed from the A ramp.












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Steps going up at Gate 29/Carew



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New Concept Drawing - No Roof






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Rich Pogin (left) and Bruce Lambrecht (Source: Skyway News)



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