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January 30, 2008 3:04 PM

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We've all known this day was coming for a long time. At least they waited until after Twinsfest.

I've read a lot of commentary on this trade. Between the lines (and sometimes more explicitly stated) is the general consensus that Santana forced the Twins to make this move -- a move they might not have wanted to make. Behind that is the implication that he felt like the team would not be competitive, either now or in the long term.

That's certainly not the type of aroma you want around your club when a new ballpark opens.

So let's take heart that this departure happened now and not, say, 10 months from now. The stink has a little more time to dissipate.


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Know as that we now get four prospects where as if we kept him and he walked at the end of year, we would only get two draft picks.

Posted on January 30, 2008 at 3:55 PM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 1

As much as I love Johan, the truth is there's no guarantee he would be the same pitcher in two years. And even if he were, he wouldn't be around for a whole heck of a lot longer after the park opens. Even if he remained in good health, keeping that Cy Young form would have caused his salary to skyrocket even more than it already has.

The truth is that the Twins will never compete with the likes of the New York teams in terms of ability to buy talent. Even with a new ballpark, there simply isn't the same magnitude of revenue there. Thus, the Twins have concentrated on building the best farm system in the game.

The consequence is that we regularly trade away our developed talent. It's no fun and I can make the argument that it may not be a sustainable strategy, but it does produce short-term benefits as we've seen over the last several seasons, benefits the Twins can't easily obtain through trades and free agency.

So while losing Torii and Johan makes me sad, I also realize that it's part of the game and is something we're going to have to get used to. It's the price of success.

Posted on January 30, 2008 at 3:59 PM by David Highlight this comment 2

I've sort of become numb to this trade. It has happened so many times over the years, but I'm typically pleased with the result after a year or two.

Posted on January 30, 2008 at 5:04 PM by Joe Highlight this comment 3

love the site, but we need some pictures of the new model to get our minds off "the trade"

Posted on January 30, 2008 at 6:16 PM by needs a distraction Highlight this comment 4

That's too bad about the Santana situation. I hope this youtube video that I made for the 2008 Twinsfest cheer up Rick and everyone else (click on my name).

Posted on January 30, 2008 at 7:26 PM by Andy Highlight this comment 5

Great video, Andy. I'm officially cheered up!

Posted on January 30, 2008 at 9:32 PM by Rick 6

Thanks for sharing that video Andy. It was nice to see the new ballpark model at the end.

Posted on January 30, 2008 at 10:35 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 7

Thanks Lafferty, you could mention about it on if you want.

Posted on January 30, 2008 at 11:35 PM by Andy Highlight this comment 8

All I have to say is that Nick Coleman's article about the Santana trade is pure crap. Obviously this guy knows nothing about baseball.

(see link for the article)

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 08:32 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 9

Are you fucking kidding me with these comments?

We don't have the money to compete with big-market teams? Then why did we give he old bastard in Wayzata $300M? Why does the wealthiest owner in the league not retain talent?

It's the same reason he got rich off the dismantling of the Minneapolis rail car system-- he fucks the public everytime.

I am done as a Twins fan.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 10:52 AM by Jason Matthews Highlight this comment 10

That's fine Jason. It's times like these that weed out the bandwagon fans. Buh-bye

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 12:22 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 11

You can blame the Pohlads all you want, but Johan, himself, put the Twins in this position with the power of his no trade clause. He previously rejected a very good offer of 4 years and $80 million and now set a deadline for the Twins to trade him or else he would invoke his no trade clause and walk away at seasons end with only two draft picks as compensation in return.

Yes, the Twins may have waited one offseason too long to trade him or sign him to an extension, but in all fairness, the Twins gave Johan a fair deal at 4 years and $80 million. (In my mind, the Twins also gave Torii Hunter a very fair offer last fall with 3 years, $45 million in which he rejected) The Twins are not stupid and are very smart to not overpay players. They might be a little cheap at times, but at least they won't overpay players unlike most other teams do in today's sports world. That is why the Twins franchise is so respected, they are very smart with their money and they know talent. As I said before, the Twins made fair offers to both Johan and Torii, but they wanted much more money and essentially both ended up getting overpaid by the Mets and Angels respectively.

Now the Mets are reportedly going to offer him 6 years and $150 million, that is simply way too much for a pitcher and I am glad the Twins didn't give him that.

Salaries in baseball are going way out of control and something needs to be done about it. There is no pitcher in baseball worth $150 million, not one. Until teams quit overpaying players, its going to be a problem. Maybe the fans ought to start boycotting professional sports...

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 12:39 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 12

it's too much money for one pitcher, i don't care if he's won two cy young awards. the twins played it the wrong way, but i still don't think signing one guy for the money he'll eat and the years of the contract is prudent. they should have signed him before last season or traded him last year.

carl pohlad and his sons are wealthy but not stupid businessmen. its been proven in recent years that over spending doesn't always equal success. what was colorado's payroll last season?

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 1:09 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 13

First off...we got fleeced!!! Any other way of wording it is crap!!! The four guys we got from the Mets are all terrible...the center fielder CANT hit and the two pitchers are projected 4/5 starters at BEST! and the other guys are 12 years old!!! rather have Hughes or Lester straight up! Hell, I'd rather keep Santana for the year we had him under contract and let him go...basically we gave him away without making him pitch this year for us...if you see it any other way you are dillusional!!! Period!!!

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 2:27 PM by luke Highlight this comment 14

did colorado win the world series? did they even compete? are they in the American League? NO NO NO I'm ok with trading santana...just not like that...everyone in the league is laughing at b. smith and the twins...what a way to start off a career as a general manager...this just set us back 5 years!!!

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 2:30 PM by luke f. not the other luke Highlight this comment 15

we gave santana to the mets without getting their number one prospect!!! Are you kidding me...this is how they repay us for building a new stadium...2010 record 75-87! Cleveland, Detroit and the White Sox and EVEN the Royals are adding people and we are getting 4 guys named "a player to be named later!"

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 2:40 PM by luke f Highlight this comment 16


How closely do you follow baseball? If you followed it and understood how prospects worked, you would see that getting four now instead of two later was the wiser choice.

Santana forced this situation and it showed he had no desire to stat in Minnesota. I don't fault Bill Smith. It's much easier being a Couch GM and talking crap about the guy even though you would have absolutely no ability yourself to do the job.

Put faith in the front office; I can guaranty they know more about baseball and prospects than any of us in the general population.


Someone who understands baseball is a business but does not know everything about the game

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 2:57 PM by Luke Knows Nothing Highlight this comment 17

Does anyone of the negative nancies know anything about this trade? The only downfall that occured was they didn't pull the trigger earlier in their chessmatch with the Yankees. All reports by scouts and people who get paid to analyze players say that Gomez could be the next Alex Rios and is destined to be our lead off hitter. Even Hunter couldn't believe how fast he was when they played each other in interleague. Also the "12 Year Old" kid could be a bust, but based on reports, he could be the next Liriano too - I guarantee you all are the same people who wrote off that trade as well.

Give me a break on this 5-year toilet brush that you think the twins will become. Losing one player in a batting line-up of 9 and a pitching rotation of 5 is not going to set us back more than maybe this year.

If Santana were here this season (or Hughes for that matter), they would have been the best pitcher in the central not to get to the playoffs -
The reason isn't how the front office has mismanaged this team, its how we didn't acquire Willis, Cabrera, Sheffield, etc etc like the Tigers did - completely wiping out their farm system along the way. Since all the Lukes are playing Nostradomus here, I'll make my prediction too: In five years, we will have a better record than the tigers. And a better stadium.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 3:00 PM by johnk Highlight this comment 18

Don't forget that last year with Hunter and Santana we were 79-83. If we are around there this year I would not consider it a disappointing season, that was last year.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 4:01 PM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 19

Carlos Gomez could be the next Alex Rios with more stolen bases and less average/OBP. Fernando Martinez (the guy we should've gotten) has a higher ceiling, but a future top of the order consisting of Mauer, Morneau, Delmon, Cuddyer, Kubel, and Gomez could do some serious damage in the AL.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 5:43 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 20

Apparently anyone who has the audacity to bash the Twins management doesn't understand the business. This team can't operate at a loss like teams in bigger markets. This is why there was contraction talk a few years ago. The only teams that have enough valuation to safely operate at a loss are large market teams like New York, which had the biggest loss in 2005. Notice how the top three team valuations also operated with the biggest loss in 2005. Baseball may need a salary cap, but more importantly better revenue sharing. Look at the system the NFL uses. The Twins ownership has made great strides in the past 2 years in signing alot of their talent to big deals. There aren't many small market teams that have been as competitive as the Twins. If Santana wants to be a sell out and go to NY or Boston them good riddence!! No loyalty, nothing wrong with 4 years 80mil!! The Twins management are not the bad guys here. I agree that Nick Coleman's article was pure bullshit. I am embarrassed to have something like that published in our own paper.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 6:09 PM by Andy Highlight this comment 21

The Twins have a better line-up going into this year than they have had the last 2 years, they will be fine. Smith made some really good moves so far. Delmon is a stud, Mike Lamb can hit, Everett great glove, Monroe's numbers in the dome make him look like Willie Mays, Morneau is here for a long time and so is Cuddyer. Thanks, Bill!

The rotation will also be fine. Baker will be solid, Boof has lost 20 lbs, and Liriano will be stronger than ever, Humber will have a break out year and we still have a great bullpen and the best closer in baseball!

Santana will fold under the New York Media spotlight. In 6 years the Mets and Angels will be wondering why they are paying these 2 guys $25 mill a year. While the Twins are counting their rings.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 8:20 PM by Jon Highlight this comment 22

Stay the course. The timing for santana was perfect for the once in a lifetime contract and he took it. The Twins refused to pay it and now he's gone. That's it. Let's get ready to play baseball.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 8:36 PM by Paul Highlight this comment 23

Bill Smith was put into a bad predicament with the timing of this deal. While we should have gotten more out of this trade, waiting may have hurt the Twins more in the long run. Some experts have suggested that the signing of Cuddyer and Morneau was calculated before the Santana deal to keep the fans hopes up, and I tend to agree.

This isn't a fire-sale though, and the team is building with young talent that will be ready to win in what promises to be a gorgeous ballpark.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 10:27 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 24

I really wish 2010 were here right now. This sick feeling I have about Santana reminds me of the nausea I have after watching the Vikings for the past 5 years.

Posted on January 31, 2008 at 11:43 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 25

Can we just call him Johan $antana now?

Posted on February 1, 2008 at 10:34 AM by The Rational Actor Highlight this comment 26

Rick...can we please see the new pictures now? I really want to see what the new lightrail station looks like. You're teasing us!

Posted on February 1, 2008 at 11:23 AM by MOJO Highlight this comment 27
How about some ballpark talk or pictures? This Johan @#$% is getting out of hand. The fact that people are angry about what was inevitable for years is ridiculous. The Twins have always done this. This is how they have always operated... Get over it!

Posted on February 1, 2008 at 11:42 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 28


Weren't there some updated model pictures you were going to post of the outfield section? (anything to get our minds off Santana)

Posted on February 1, 2008 at 8:07 PM by ace Highlight this comment 29

What do you fans think of the new Twins commercial unveiled during the Super Bowl?

For those who have not seen it, it is available on the Twins' website.

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 01:06 AM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 30

Great commercial, I just wish they had shot/broadcast it in HD.

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 08:12 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 31

I loved the surprise cameo at the end (won't be a spoiler by saying wo). Beautifully done, and a nice piece of positive pie for the 2008 season...

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 11:08 AM by johnk Highlight this comment 32

The ad was fun and got me thinking how far it is from homeplate to the interstate. In any event that 7th st. plaza is going to be a great place to catch moon shot homerun balls.

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 11:58 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 33

waiting in line for the obama thing gave me a chance to see the progress. am i the only one who things that this park will not be (nor is it trying to be) the next cute neighborhood stadium, but rather will be THE model on how to correctly do an urban ballpark?
the thing just sings, baby...

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 1:08 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 34 you have any close-ups of the layout for the Twins Clubhouse in the new ballpark? I was looking at the floor plans and it is hard to zoom in on what the clubhouse will look like. It would be interesting to see what the amenities are in their new clubhouse.


Posted on February 4, 2008 at 2:56 PM by MOJO Highlight this comment 35


No, you're not the only one. The day the design was unveiled and it was NOT a false-retro ballpark was the day I knew somebody was making sure this was done right.

The more I learn about this park, the more I think it will set the standard for the parks to come.

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 3:25 PM by David Highlight this comment 36

The commercial was great! It takes our minds off of Torii Hunter and Johan Santana and puts an emphasis on the future of Twins baseball outdoors with guys like Mauer, Morneau, and Cuddyer.

It was an excellent idea to implement the ballpark construction site into the commercial.

As for the cameo appearance (won't say the name for those who haven't seen the commercial yet) in the end...that is one of the last people I would have imagined to play that role! Overall, great commercial as always by the Twins marketing department!

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 3:40 PM by Robert Highlight this comment 37

ok boys...what info are you america and everyone on espn says this kid CANT hit!! you can be michael johnson and it doesnt matter if you cant hit...and none of these pitchers are liriano! they have fastballs from 88-92 thats no lirano!! and yes I follow baseball...but the question is...have you ever played? its always a bunch of non-athletes that run their mouths...this isnt jv boys its the big leagues!!! bottom line we got taken...its nice to see you guys are are looking at things in a possitvie way...ill give you that but so are a lot of tampa bay rays fans!!!

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 3:44 PM by luke who knows everything Highlight this comment 38

I loved the ad! This tidbit was in the press release:

"Another upcoming spot in the Twins' 2008 This is Twins Territory television campaign includes Minnesota's own Pat Neshek featured with students from his high school, Park Center High School."

We can certainly look forward to this.

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 3:50 PM by Rick 39

I too was in line for the Obama rally, and I too stood in awe of what a transcending project we are building behind the Target Center.

On a slightly different note, one thing we haven't talked about much (other than twinsville and the 6th street ped bridge) is the surrounding neighborhood. Some great news came via the Downtown Journal today stating that Catholic Charities is planning to move outside of Downtown to make way for a monster development that also includes the Ramada Inn and an empty lot on Hennepin. Though not immediately adjacent to the ballpark site, this is no doubt going to pick up the spirits and help polish up the south east neighborhood - the area I was most concerned would negatively impact this stadium. Click on my name for the link!

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 4:01 PM by JohnK Highlight this comment 40

Rick -- I'm dying to see the pictures from Twinsfest. Please feed my obsession so my girl can get mad at me for looking at your site all night... again.

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 4:19 PM by J2K Highlight this comment 41

A correction from my post above: The development I referred to will not actually include the existing Ramada Inn, but the lot the Ramada Inn currently sits on. That building is as good as gone. Finally.

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 4:46 PM by JohnK Highlight this comment 42

Here is a link to Pat Neshek's personal webpage. He actually talks a little bit about his upcoming commercial in one of his blog entries.

It's a great site to look at as Pat is always blogging about his life as a MLB player.

Posted on February 4, 2008 at 6:53 PM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 43

I must say after looking at the yankees, nationals and other various teams (past and present) webcams, new stadium construction pages, I really hope the twins start to spiff it up a little bit.

While I love the camera they have, lets admit you can't really see much, and if you try to zoom in well forget about it. One thing about other various teams sites is they usually have monthly photo galleries showing progress. Photos from directly on-site.

Now i know right now the progress appears slow but down the line, i hope we get a little more

Posted on February 6, 2008 at 03:42 AM by derek Highlight this comment 44

Sorry to threadjack this, but KQ was playing a story this morning about the stadium opponent who sent threatening letters to those Commisioners who supported the sales tax. I have posted a link to the story in today's Star Tribune.

Posted on February 6, 2008 at 07:38 AM by Pikachu732001 Highlight this comment 45

This page was last modified on January 21, 2010.

"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3046 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.

Today's match-up (click to enlarge)

Door to the visitor's clubhouse.

The Overlook

7:52 PM It's nearing peak, and covering the stands behind third base.

An early concept drawing for the site

The media had some beautiful foliage to use as a background.

I love these upper neighborhoods.

Sure would be nice to cover that metal grid with more wooden louvers, eh?

Click to see the full-size image.

Looking north (toward Fifth Street and the LRT station).

Today's match-up (click to enlarge)

This is the staircase (ramp?) leading up to the trapezoid. Nice flagpole too. You'll be able to find me and Ben McEvers at the base of that flagpole on opening day in 2010!

From last week, you can see the piers taking shape. I believe that the front row, visible here as just forms and reinforcing rods, is the front edge of the plaza.

Wind veil framing (from the inside)

Looking for some detail

Dugout Box and Champion's Club sections are sequestered by separate moats

Window area sketched by the limestone

There must be millions of details needing tending

Gate 29 Carew

Fissure dude

This view, from the Minnekahda building (or possibly a predecessor), looks toward the right field corner. The City Market, at left, occupied the land where the B ramp and Target Plaza now stand (over I-394). And the Overlook now juts out just a little beyond where that driveway enters the railyard.

Ullger warms up.

Stairs down to the sidewalk from the skywalk over Seventh

The images on that wall appear to be of great Twins moments in history.

Here's a quick look into the layout of the Metropolitan Club.

Our engineer.


BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

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First Edition (1992)

Second Edition (2006)


Selected Bibliography - Surveys


Second Edition (1987)

Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title

(2000, large coffee table)

Original edition (2000, round)

Revised edition (2006, round)

(2001, medium coffee table)

(2002, small coffee table)

(2003, medium coffee table)

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Combines the previous two titles
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Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia


Book and six ballpark miniatures

Complete Bibliography

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