In the last twenty innings, the lads have scored one run and committed five errors. That's not a good ratio.

That pic, Rick...post one of those a day between November and April. That will be my happy place. I don't want to think about snow "for now or any other spaceless time."

Bonus points for those who know what movie that line is from.

It's not even mid-August and the StubHub market has no officially started it's official downward decline.

Hopefully I can get a pair in the Champions Club for under $100 by seasons end.

*now officially

Was the Twins bottom of the 6th inning their shortest 1/2 inning of the season? I left the room for 5 minutes when it went into commercial, when I returned it was in commercial for the Top of the 7th.

Everyone get in line for 2012 Season Tickets!! The On-Deck Circle now has over 3,000 people on the waiting list!!

What a joke this organization has become and the sad thing is that many fans will continue to flock to Target Field just like the Wild fans kept flocking to the Xcel Energy Center too many years too late.

Target Field is nice and beautiful but I can't justify renewing my season tickets next year. At this point, I would rather save the $2500 and pay below face value on the secondary market for single games.

Wow, this is what we get after not making our team better for the future? I could careless if it would have been a PR disaster to let Span go or Cuddyer to be on a borrowed contract for the remainder of the season...I am really concerned with how this team will be able to perform in the future if we are relying on our AA guys who are AAA replacements this year, and payroll being slashed because the pockets at the top need to be filled.

TK, the bottom of the 6th lasted exactly 5 pitches. Those are the kind of innings you have when you are 13th in the league in on base percentage.

Information about the Target Field Transit Hub, click name for link

My season tickets are toast.

Down a touchdown in the 8th, about to be swept by the team in front of us in the standings, in front of a bunch of players from the 1991 World Series Championship team.

This might be the worst trainwreck of a weekend that I can remember in Twin's Territory. (At least on the field!)

One run and five errors in the last 26 innings. In only one of their last four games have they scored more runs than they've committed errors. This isn't just a team out of contention, it is a full blown train wreck.

The Home Run Porch View will be looking fairly empty against Detroit. There are about 500 seats still available online for the Saturday game.

I bought four tickets in the Field View section in hopes of going to the 7pm game tomorrow, only to have the game move to 6pm a week or so ago. There is no way I am going to get face value or the several dollars in ticket fees back. I wonder if ESPN will back out of wanting to show this game...

Just got back from the game. The young lad and I haven't left early in 4 years, but today we did. No energy out there at all.

That said, it was a perfect summer day, and 2 years ago I would have given my tickets away or just let them go. It was still fun to be at the ballpark.

I'm not going to say I look forward to being in some premium seats that I could never otherwise afford this September :). We need to make up 5 games in August, and 5 in September. But, we should never get swept by the Sox at home. Ever....

Mike - It's funny - I remember an interview with a Wild exec. shortly after the X opened, and he said that "the glow of the building will wear off, and performance on the ice will get fans in the seats." Well, the Wild haven't given us anything to cheer about in years...but fans still show up. Can't be the arena - everyone in the seven-county metro has probably been there by now for some reason or another. And it can't be the team.

The atmosphere at TF I think, continues to bring the fans there, just because that goddamned Dome robbed us of a true baseball experience for what seemed to be an eternity. But, I think that will soon pass. I don't think fans will continue to flock to TF like they are the Wild and the X.

Well now 1-9 at TF after the game saturday! Only thing left for this year is to see if we can finish dead last. When you can't field or hit or pitch things are not gonna go your way. Will they just cut Nishy after this year? Time to gut and reload for next year.

Can we officially say that the Twins gave up this weekend and the season for that matter as well.

Well the boys are on pace to win 72 games this year. That might be optomistic. Would think we will see 50% turnover next year. I would not break the bank on Cuddy either. 2 years 16 mil is plenty for a soon to be 33 year old outfielder! Pohlads got to be thinking it's time to trim well below the 113 mil payroll for next year.

The sad thing is that this team is not even built to contend in the next several years...

The Twins have not developed an ace pitcher in years...Santana was acquired from Florida via Rule-V draft and Liriano was acquired via trade.

It's time to cut payroll, re-stock the minor league system and re-build the roster.

What you see is what you get with Blackburn, Slowey, Baker, Duensing and Liriano....and that is too much inconsistency. At best, a bunch of #3 starters. The organization also needs to get rid of the "pitch to contact" philosophy and get some pitchers who can strike out some guys.

The defense has taken considerable steps backwards the last couple of years as well.

Perhaps its time for a new front office/coaching staff...

I am as big of a Twins fan as anyone, but reality needs to set in and people need to realize there is not a very bright future for this franchise.

It should be an interesting "Hot Stove League" season this winter. Speaking of which, I have to remind myself how long last winter was and how much I missed going to the ballpark. One tends to forget things like that when the Twins are in a stretch of playing such terrible baseball.

IS there anyway we can just hand the baby jesus over to the yanks? For 23mil we could buy some pitching and some infield help!

I hate to be pessimistic, but I'm not expecting a great showing tonight against the Red Sox, on national television.

I suppose the ESPN broadcast will be "blacked out" in the FS North viewing area? And, I'm correct to assume you don't have FS North??

But Rick --- I have it on good authority that the Twins are providing "expotentially" greater value to their fans than ever before!

Well at least it may be little easier to get tickets to Twins games now, hopefully. Back in the Dome I probably had a 75 to 85% success rate of being able to get tickets. At Target field it's been a little better, probably around a 80 to 90% success rate.

Which is more than I can say for the Vikings. Last 5-6 years I have tried to get tickets to any regular season Vikings game but there's never any accessible seating available. 0% success rate is pretty sad. Keeping my fingers crossed Viking's get a new Stadium soon, don't care where in Minnesota they build it.

Twins vs Boston and I can't get 20 bucks UNDER face value for my Row 11 109 seats on Stubhub......Crazy.

Rick Fox only does Saturday games and playoffs. It's probably good you won't have to watch it. Could be very ugly tonight and the whole series. I heard Reusse say they may have put the whole team on waivers. I would do it for sure on Kubel, Crapper and Nathan. Twins could at least cut some payroll the last couple of months. Boy I would love for somebody to take our $23 mil slap hitting singles hitter the baby jesus off our hands. Mircales can happen?

Steve - It's only going to get worse...I have a Tuesday night game in September (9/6) and a Thursday afternoon game in late September with Seattle that are going to be difficult to sell.

This trend will undoubtedly continue into next year, with the exception of the Milwaukee Brewers series and the Home Opener.

Course who will buy tickets now anyways? You seen the stock market the last 3 days???? MERCY!

ALRIGHT - Just to let you know, when I left my gf's house in Saint Michael tonight at 7:05pm. The Twins were ahead 5-1.
It's now 7:55pm, dammit, and it's 5-5! What the bloody hell is wrong with this picture???
I guess it's true what they say, this Twins team really sucks.

the espn camera angle of home plate tonight was awesome. why can't FSN give us this view? espn was close, looked great. turn it back to FSN and it looks like the camera is 50 ft further back and up. if espn can do it why can't FSN give viewers this optimal view every night?

When you have 25% of future payroll for the next 7 years tied up in a slow, white, soon-to-be arthritic singles hitter who plays 25-75% of the time, I think the writing is on the wall. I made enough money off my tickets last year to pay for my entire invoice next season. But, I won't. I'm projecting the Twins at about 70-92 each of the next 5 seasons. The chaos and computer-freezing that us STHs loved to see with disgruntled fans in mid-March trying to desperately get their tickets for the season is done...and I'm not about to be the bag holder going forward. There are only two players who deserve $23.5 million a year...Gonzales and Cano. Instead, Bill blows it on the local kid. Even at his best, Mauer doesn't come anywhere near Gonzales. I honestly don't think I'll see a catcher signed for that kind of money again in my lifetime...and I'm not that old.

What does Mauer's being white have to do with anything?

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that when the Twins have an early 3 or 4 run lead, the other team has them right where they want them?

No, terry, you're not the only one. I've had that feeling for a long time.

I see the baby jesus must have heard footsteps from Ortiz when he wiffed on the easy putout in the top of the 9th. Huff n puff n stuff aka Nathan has to go. Time for a complete roster shakeup! Here is what I would do.

Put on waivers the whole team see who bites.

Trade for anything you can.

Delmone
Fransisco
Slowey
Nishy
Span

Won't be back next year

Thome
Nathan
Crapper

Sign either Cuddy or Kubel but DO not break the bank! 3 year almost too much.

Need a half ass SS and another starter and bullpen help.

It was an entertaining game at least.

It just never ends with this team...now Scott Baker is going back to the DL. Not that it really matters anymore.

I have never seen so many "injuries" with one team, and while there have been more injuries than usual this year, its been a consistent norm with this team over the last few years.

It's time to question the coaching staff and training staff and the entire approach they take in the offseason and spring training.

Any why do we always hear about these "injuries" later on after the fact??? Just more excuses to use for their poor performances???

Any by the way, the Red Sox sure looked "tired" and "exhausted" after arriving in Minneapolis at 5AM on Monday...

Could the reason the Twins starting pitching has gone in the tank at this point in the season be traced back to allowing them to throw more than the 100 pitch limit? Not because they throw over 100 pitches, but because 100 pitches was the limit for most of these pitchers coming up through Rick Anderson's system. Now they start throwing over that number and their arms have not been conditioned for it, could they now all be suffering arm fatigue? Just a theory.

No Ben...you spelled it wrong.
"Embarrassing" I believe is the word you were attempting to spell.
Easy mistake, both words have the same number of letters.

Maybe the Twins are really a front for a cabal of really sophisticated insurance scammers?

Seats as low as $4 on Stub --- . Twins are going to get a lesson (more to the point "another" lesson) tonight in how to construct and manage a baseball team as well as how to play the game. The "Twins Way" is about as tired as it gets.

That is sad that with one disappointing year, the "fans" will flock away from the team and game. I have tickets to tonight and tomorrow nights game, and still plan on going to both. It is still a baseball game,something fun to watch, whether the Twins are going to the playoffs or not. Minus the Twins pitching sucking last night the game was fun to watch. Did Nathan throw out an excuse for blowing the tied game last night?

Just noticed this article on the Startrib website. I thinks it's going to take at least 3 years to sign Cuddyer, probably 4. They should front load his deal go with 16 million first year, 15m 2nd, 13m 3rd, 10m last. That evens out to roughly 13m a year for 4 years. Don't know if that good enough but no matter what some people think on this board, from a baseball stand point, they need to sign him. He is by far the most consistantly good player on the team. I always contended the year Mauer won the MVP he owed it to Cuddyer and Kubel, since they are the ones that got that team to the playoffs.

A couple of valid points Duff --- but, did you check on Cuddyer's age before you made those proposals? I agree he is a huge asset at present but time is not on our side here.

Yup he's 32 right now, I'm not too worried about him at 36. Hell at 32 he appears to be in the best physical shape he's ever been in.

By the way good job by that guy who just did not throw the ball back. I saw a lot of idiots in his section calling for it, but he, or she I guess, resisted.

Nine walks!! No comment necessary.

Avoid Cuddy. Likeable? Yes. Decent player? Yes. Worth $15-$17 million going forward? Hell no. Bill has already mortgaged Target Field for one player, he has to work on undoing his damage (Mauer, Nish, etc.) The solutions, albeit long-term ones, were to dump a few guys like Cuddy and Young prior to 7/31, but he convinced himself the Twins were in the hunt. So, on to step 2: Let everybody go whose contract is up, including Cuddy. Step 3: Move $23.5 million man to 1B in another year and let Morneau go. Step 4: Abort PR stunt Nish as soon as possible. Step 5: Pray that there are about ten scrappy guys who will emerge in the farm system ready to start a new class of winners that will break free once Mauer's contract is up. This is a 5-8 year rebuilding plan here. That's how badly this was botched in the past few years. Throw in declining attendance/revenue attendance going forward, and it isn't pretty.

It will be interesting to see how they spin Slowey's return. He has been buried so deep in the doghouse that he was never expected to again see the light of day in a Twins uniform. Even DickBert was bad-mouthing the guy, as well as the rest of the usual boobs. Now he's on his way back as a starter. So --- do you suppose someone will feel the need to say something nice and expect us to forget that they've been throwing him under the bus for months?

So Twinschamps your idea is don't spend any money other than on Mauer and sit in the cellar for 10 years. Considering our farm system is in shambles when do you suspect to reover? They can absorb Mauer's contract, they proved that this year. It will not hang over them like KG's did. Especially with Capps and Nathan gone after this year thats 18 million.

It's almost like you want to Twins to suck. If the Twins do anything it needs to start with getting rid of Joe Vavra and Rick Anderson. Mauer is invredibly talented as a hitter, but has not inproved since he made the majors. In fact he seems to have regressed in the last two years. Can you believe he almost hit 30 hrs in 2009, a year he missed the first month of the season? Now he has 1, and 9 last year.

Obviously our pitching is not good, and if you take out Sanatana, who's developement was actually held back by the Twins, and the free-agent pitchers signed, who was the last good farm-grown Ace taught by Anderson? How about we teach a pitcher to strike people out, not to let them hit it?

Sign Cuddyer, Give Morneau one last chance, or try to dump him in a trade, move Mauer first permently, dump Casilla. The only reason not to sign Cuddyer is if they are saving the money go after Reyes, which is a fantasy.

Considering Nishioka has been here less than one full season, don't you think it's a bit early to write the guy off as a bad investment? The guy hasn't even been in the country a year and doesn't know the language. That takes some adjustment time. The guy hasn't stood in the box against Major League pitching before this year. He, like other hitters, needs time to adjust to that as well. Nish also needs some time to adjust to the style of play here in the US. It may also be possible that he, like every single other big leaguer from time to time, is having a down year. Most players bounce back the next year.

Wouldn't it be fair to give the guy another year to make the necessary adjustments before we write him off as a total failure?

Cuddyer's a nice guy who is having a very good year and looks good in a Twins uniform.

Ben-

Cuddyer has been the best player on this team for years.

Twins are 1 and 9 in the last 10 games. Look out, Kansas City!

I don't want the Twins to suck...they just are going to suck for awhile, I think. Mauer's 28 HR was Dome-aided...he can't hit the long ball, doesn't drive in runs...he is a slow 2nd baseman that can hit for average with bad knees. And when you sign someone for that kind of money as a mid-market team, you're stuck...you have taken yourself off the free-agent market. And, Nish had one good year in a league far inferior to the Bigs, and that was a really high-risk signing that most would have avoided. As much as I like Cuddy, he has seen his best years. Signing him to a big multi-year deal will just add fuel to Bill's fire. Usually, teams clean house and rebuild without the noose of a $23.5 million player, but we're stuck with him, so you have to do what you can do. Our only hope is that Morneau and Valencia return to their 2010 form next year...and I'm not holding my breath.

I think the 2 years 16 mil offer more than fair. If he wants 3 years I would say 18 mil! Ya thats a 4mil paycut but hey this guy is gonna be 33! I think you can get Kubel cheaper and I like Kubels power and RBI more. Will be interesting to see what they do.

"Cuddyer has been the best player on this team for years."

Sentiment does not count and statistical analysis indicates otherwise. Nice guy, great team-mate, easy interview (and thus a media favorite), flexible, uncomplaining (except when it comes to trees), talented with some undeniable basic baseball skills, blah, blah, blah. But, he does not play any position particularly well, seldom hits when really needed, and grounds into tons of double plays or strikes out flailing - often after having a terrible at-bat. He is the prototypical journeyman and carries a WAR of less than one currently. On a quality team he is a reliable utility guy with a "maybe" clutch bat and a few tricks for the boys after the game. With the Twins he is a marketing chip. Hardly the best guy on the team for years and due to regress. He's having a good run this season, enjoy while you can.

Two friends just notified me that they are dropping their 40-game season ticket package in 2012 (they have had season tickets since 2005)...how many more will follow and what will happen with the On-Deck Circle waiting list (which apparently has over 3,000 people on the list)?

2012 invoices are scheduled to be mailed out by the end of August so it will be interesting...

I am more than likely going to be dropping my season tickets as well.

Anyone else on here cancelling? Downgrading? Renewing?

I can't imagine it will be very difficult to get tickets on a single game basis next year.

I'd like to investigate joining in with someone on a 40 game deal just to see where I would be at in regard to $$$, seats, etc. The pick and choose option is looking more viable as well, given that the Twins have removed much of the ST benefits. I think the on deck requires a deposit so those folks are stuck, at least to some degree. The Twins do not care one whit about losing current STH so long as they have a closet door to open - the smugness will continue.

I will probably drop my 20 game pack and split a 20 game pack with my brother who is closer to home plate next year also. It was a nice 2 yr run. But you know a 55 inch HDTV makes it pretty nice to stay home and watch when you can also. I'll miss the holiday dogs for sure! LOL!

Indeed. And for the price of one bottle of lemming piss you can get a six pack of Black Butte Porter!!!

Just do like most of the other cheapsters: Buy the least expensive ticket available day of game and move to better location during the game.

It's how the ballpark was designed, buy low move high.

Is it that easy to move about or do ushers interfere, folks look down their noses, etc. I've never been that brazen.

Until someone behind you sees you moving to those seats and tells security. In fact, you can even text security and they will be there within a couple of minutes asking you to see your ticket.

Wow! For seats that are obviously going unused? My wife would absolutely wilt!

I have to drop...I'm not even sure marquee weeknight games next year will fetch face value. Now, if the Twins start off 30-12, yeah, the premium will come back. But, with all the cancellations, I think the confidence of that is nil. I'm assuming someone is aware of the looming low renewal rate in the front office. I'd actually look for more price cuts in the HRP and Grandstand. Possible price cuts in the premium areas as well. I'd say flat pricing in upper levels and 100s and 200s down the line. There is no way they increase any levels with the current product, unless they're clueless. They need to stave off what could become a PNC Park redux over the next 5 years.

RE: 2012 Tickets

To me the ratio of Season Ticket retention will be directly related to the quality or lack thereof of your seats. The cheap/bad seats are the first to be given up. No way people walk away from the 1-2K/seat PSLs they paid in the Legends Club. This means the Twins can basically raise the prices every season without any negative consequences.

I also don't see people giving up any Dugout Box or Home Plate Box in the 1st 15 rows (especially with the carrot of the 2014 All-Star Game hanging out there). Everything else is fair game IMO.

I was in Cincinnati and Detroit a couple weeks ago to see ballgames. Amazing the price differences between them and Target Field. 14th row behind the plate for the Sunday afternoon Verlander/Weaver near No hitter was $39 on the ticket. Friday night in Cincy in the 2nd row behind their version of the Champions Club for $28 (secondary market). Hard to beat those with a stick. I think a market correction may be in order...

Are you stuck with the same seat when you purchase a PSL, or can you upgrade your seat from season to season? Of course, being that the Twins only offered PSL's in the LC, you'd have to upgrade within the LC.

I always thought when you purchased a PSL, you bought the right to buy season tickets for that seat - period.
It sounds strange to pay a couple thousand for the right to pay several thousand for season tickets.

I fortunately have been able to find people to pick up 5-10 games in our lower level seats, and 3 others committing to 20-games in our upper-level seats, so I will be back next year. It does suck not to be able to get money back, and it will be even more interesting to see how the ticket prices work with dynamic pricing.

In the survey to STH, they asked how one would feel if the Twins would lower ticket prices to where STH pay at the discounted price and even lower.

I actually think the first seats to be abandoned will be the more expensive ones that are not corporate. I dished off my Legends Club seats after last season for this very reason...I only got what I paid for my PSL ($1000 per seat), but a LC holder this year very likely will face the dilemma of walking away from their seat with no buyer (thus, no PSL sale and their PSL cost down the drain), or ponying up $4,000 per ticket next year. I got rid of mine just to be safe, but I didn't envision the debacle that happened this year. I think there will be a lot of drops this year. I have cheap seats now...and they're fine, but I'll pay $13/ticket and I know I'll get stuck selling weeknight games for $6/ticket next year. For anyone who cares, I looked up better seats at PNC...upper level just past 3rd base, and they were $4.93 per ticket on a season ticket plan. Similar seats at TF would be around $20/ticket on a ST plan.

When you bought Legends Club PSLs (Section A, B, Q, R were $1000 and Section C-P were $2000 a seat) you therefore "own" the seats provided you continue to pay the Twins each year at their determined price. You are free to sell the PSLs for any price and pay the Twins a $100 transfer fee.

I would argue that the majority of the "good" seats at TF are indeed corporate/company owned. Probably 90%.

I do not quite understand why the people here think there will be a mass exodus of season ticket holders at the end of the year. Do get me wrong, I wouldn't mind one, so I can move to a better location (I want the seats first row by the Ford signs). It's one down year, in which there is still a month left and a half left. It will be a sad statement if all the fan support vanishes.

Went to the games tonight and last night and the stadium was mostly full, even with the Twins 10 back. Yes it was the Red Sox and there were a lot of Red Sox fans there, but we'll see what happens after the Yankee's leave town.

It was a weird feeling in the top of the 9th. It almost felt like the entire ballpark was waiting for Nathan to blow it. There was really no cheering or excitement until 2 outs and 2 strikes.

The weather for tonight's game was the most perfect it could be, and most perfect I have been at, then throw a win on top of it made for a perfect evening of baseball.

Apparently a great many people did not have "fan support" as their motive for purchasing ST in the first place. Their motive was to profit on the resale of those tickets and everyone had one hell of a year --- last year. The fall off in "interest" was always going to happen as the novelty (the so called "honeymoon") of the new park wore off. The team playing as poorly as it has been has only served to accelerate the process. Just as with the team itself, it is the dollar that reigns supreme, not the game.

I'll re-up my 20 game ST package. I waited 29 years while the Twins were entombed in that sepulcher on Chicago Avenue for the return of real baseball. I didn't get season tickets as an investment; I got them so I could enjoy the game the way God and Abner Doubleday intended.

Why are you caring what the motivation is behind the ticket buying? At what point in recent Twins history have they ever not been about "the dollar"? Why is everyone all of the sudden complaining about it? Why because they didn't give out a crappy bobblehead or a media guide to the Season Tickets Holders? I'm one and I don't care, more stuff to sit around the house collecting dust. Hell the media guide probably wouldn't have made it out of the park. And the bobble heads are as stupid and pointless as beanie-babies. I guess it's a great way to lure the kids in to coming. I'd much rather have $2 hot dogs and $5 beers over this crap they give away.

Well --- you are getting, and going to get, neither. Do you ever tire of being dead wrong all the time?

Ok, go play with your bobbleheads, you child.

If you want outdoor baseball with $2 hot dogs and $5 beers, than look no further than the Northwoods League...very good brand of baseball.

Meanwhile, the Twins will quickly realize they will need to offer some benefits to STH's to keep them renewing. If you can go online and get better and cheaper seats on the secondary market on a single-game basis, than what is the purpose of season tickets compared to buying tickets on a single-game basis? A media guide and bobbleheads might not sound like much to one person, but there are people out there who enjoy those types of things and collect them or simply appreciate them. Other nice things in the past include lapel pins and construction countdown timer. They also had better single-game pre-sale opportunities back in the day.

Sooner or later the STH base will decline and the Twins will need to provide some incentives to purchasing season tickets just like they did with the bobbleheads and those things in the early 2000's.

No more bobbleheads, no more media guide, pro shop discount was reduced from 25% to 20% (while the prices increase), single-game presale event is now worthless. I don't use the Metropolitan Club so that is not a big benefit to me.

Why are the Twins gettting flack here for being out to make money? Wasn't that the business model in the first place? Is there a successful business out there that doesn't try to maximize profits and minimize expenses? Are there whole sectors of the business world that don't try to increase the perception of value in order to increase their mark-ups?

I am fine with the Twins making money, and the Twins sure make there fair share, it is just when corners are cut to save additional revenue and not show loyalty to their long time customers.

Many of whom, by the way, are paying for the palace. Anybody notice that these sots of things were not taking place when the team had their hands out?

Do you think Bill Smith is ordering up playoff invoices and Game #163 tickets to be sent to all STH? In terms of tickets, I think the Twins pricing is fair, especially given the new park. It is cheaper than Chicago, on par with St. Louis, and more expensive than all other Midwest teams. If you want dirt cheap baseball, go to Cleveland or Pittsburgh. I looked into mini plans with the Cardinals, and the Twins are on par with them for STH benefits...next to nothing. Most other Midwest teams will guarantee playoff strips for a 20-game package, or give a pair of tickets for Club seats, etc. I picked up 3 bobbleheads last year...Dan Gladden, Rick Aguilera, and Delmon Young, for being a STH. They are collecting dust in my kids' rooms. My media guides from last year were all bent up by the time I got to the light rail and eventually made it to the recycling bin. I'm not big into that stuff. Now, a pair of passes to the Champions Club would motivate me a little bit.

I was forced to be a single game ticket buyer for the Dome years...just waiting until I knew there would be demand and jumped on in 2010. I do rely on the secondary market, but taking that out of the equation, I would renew if I thought the Twins would be a solid team next year, without worry about the cost, etc. I just don't get a good feeling. There are health issues and payroll issues. The only real significant improvement financially is to lose Nathan. I think the Twins will re-sign Cuddy and Kubel and go with basically the same team next year with Mauer playing his last year at catcher, and Revere in for Young. They've got to get Nish out of the lineup. He is a complete non-factor. Casilla has been solid enough since June 1 to get another shot. He's been the brightest spot in our middle infield...and that's sad. Bill ravaged the bullpen and middle infield in the off-season, and it showed.

Next six games against the top two teams in the AL Central, three against Cleveland and three against Detroit.

Any guesses of how many games our guys can win this roadtrip?

Here is a great article by Peter Richmond about the architectural opportunities missed by NY and American sporting venues in general.

Click the link.

Pessimistic side: 0-6
Optimistic side: 2-4

I'm hoping for a 3-3 trip! Really doesn't matter much at this point does it? Twins goal to not finish last. I don't see them getting back to 5 games under the rest of the year. We can be a spoiler though. LOL

This from Shooter:
Entrepreneur: One broker bought a pair of Twins Legends Club tickets on Stubhub late Monday afternoon before the game against the Red Sox for $5 each, then resold them on the street for $50 apiece. The same fellow, also on Monday, bought eight tickets together in Section 302 at Target Field for $5 each on Stubhub, then resold them on the street for $25 apiece.

I find that hard to believe....has anyone ever seen Legends Club seats for $5 on StubHub??? Even if its true, why would anyone buy a "ticket" printed off on a sheet of paper? Obviously, those would have been electronic tickets due to the timing. I would never trust anyone selling a ticket printed on paper....But than again, the secondary ticket market is not exactly a very hot market right now in regards to the Twins.

Just seems like more BS made up from Shooter but its always worth a good laugh...

Mike - why is that a ticket printed on a piece of paper is any more of a risk than the actual ticket? The actually card board ticket could be void because it was either sold on Stub Hub or electronically transfered to another person.

Either way, you are taking a little bit of a chance when you buy on the street. However, with the ball park sold out, do you have any other choice if you choose to run down to the game at the last minute?

Sounds like a typical shooter reach! LOL! He throws enough BS out there thats for sure.

Apparently, according to Shooter, awesomeness returns to Minnesota this October. He said the Gophers are slated to play Nebraska for the homecoming game on Oct. 22.

FINALLY, a homecoming game that deserves some respect. I'm curious to see how the Gophers are going to do against USC first game of the season, and on the Trojans' home turf. That should be interesting.

I find the "entrepreneur" story hard to believe too. I'm wondering if the LC portion of his little thing was a misprint. I wonder if he meant to say that said entrepreneur found them for $50 on StubHub and could only sell them for $50.

I wonder if Shooter's point was that said entrepreneur made zero profit on the LC tickets, but turned around and made a nice profit on the tickets in 302.

Shooter's Legends Club story does not seem believeable.

For two recent games I found myself with an extra single LC ticket. I offered it on StubHub each time for $50-$55 (a price below any other LC offer that I saw) and on both occasions the tickets sold quickly. But then, again on both occasions nobody ever came to sit next to me. What happened? Did someone just want the ticket to get into the Legends Club or did a broker buy them and then find themselves unable to resell them on the street?

I did appreciate Shooter's comments yesterday about the trees:

"Although the Twins removed those gorgeous pine trees in center field to improve the backdrop for batters this season, the Twins are hitting just .250 - 10th among 14 AL teams - compared with last season, when they hit .273 - third-best in the AL - with the trees."

BBtT

Welcome back, Alexi. Hope you enjoyed your stay.

Isn't there a freeway on ramp right behind it?

Pavano's reaction in the dugout tonight said it all. When the starters do have a good outing, they are not getting any support from the hitters or the fielders. That "fielding" (sic) tonight was embarrassing. They must have some better fielding middle infielders at Beloit or Elizabethton.

If the coffin hasn't been closed already, it should by the end of this series, unless they can win 5 straight.

Maybe to avoid Rick's scenario...getting scammed by scalpers at the 2014 ASG, MLB should require folks who purchase tickets to pick them up in person at TF the Saturday before All Star Week begins(should TF get the game).

I think (Max, that's an emphasis on think, I'm not saying it's fact) the NFL requires personal pick up for Super Bowl tickets.

That way, the margin of error for fakes to show up would be incredibly slim, if not nonexistent. I do remember, during Super Bowl XXVI here in the Cities, there were a couple incidents of fakes floating around.

Oh, and Brandon, I'll second Rick's sentiment - that was a great article. Thanks for posting it.

I hope that, when it comes time for a new Vikes stadium, we don't construct a "Lump" to follow the Dump we built in 1982.

Sounds do-able.

I was on here a day or so ago pleading Hishioka's case, but tonight he didn't do me any favors with that terrible 6th-7th inning performance in the field. Yikes! Tolbert was as much of a liability as Nishi.

Do the Twins have there eye on any Junior High prospects to help them up the middle? Maybe the Twins have found some help while scouting the RBI League talent this week?

I'm a big Nishioka fan, but I think he needs to spend some time in the instructional league this winter. His head is just not in the game.

Don't know if it's a language issue, or lack of experience, or what. But this is a guy who won batting titles and gold gloves in Japan!

You've got to wonder if there is something contractural which precludes sending him down or otherwise demoting him. Anyone else would be under some kind of gun you would think. The Twins apparently thought they were buying a player AND a market but have only gotten half a deal so far, if that.

It could be a number of unfamiliarities. Language, culture, style of play, climate, diet, scarcity of houses of worship. The guy might just be homesick. Even so, the breakdown in his game is in fielding more than hitting, and getting your glove on the ball is basic and should be instinctive. He didn't seem focused last night.

Brand new baby as well - maybe he's stuck with the 2AM diaper change? The issue is how much slack they cut him and at what point it's too much. I bet some other players (like Pavano last night!) are wondering where the buck stops.

To me it also seems like each time I see the interpreter on the bench he does not look engaged and looks bored.

There may be some overthinking regarding Nish...he isn't that good and has no business being in The Show. He had one good year in a league the equivalent of AA or AAA ball. Bill must have been sick of having journeymen in the middle hitting .250 to .280, so he tried to do something cute, and it made things worse. I wasn't a huge JJ Hardy or Orlando Hudson fan, but they were reliable veterans who somewhat contributed for the benefit of the team. Nish had a bad break to start the season, but don't hold out for Ichiro-like #s here. With Nish's fielding vulnerability and lack of power, he has got to hit at least .280 to make this worth it to benefit from his speed. Didn't Bill spend like $5 million just for the rights for this guy? He's not getting paid a lot on a salary basis, but the team is clearly worse with him in the lineup. The best we've had up the middle this year is Casilla/Plouffe for a few weeks in early summer. I'd still like to experiement with moving Morneau to 3rd next year, and sliding Valencia to the middle. These parts are easily interchangeable, and, assuming Valenica is the player we saw last year, it could eliminate what has become a really sore spot for the Twins. Of course, to get Mauer over to 1st, we need a real backup catcher.

If taken in pill form, the Twins' hitters this year could be the cure for insomnia.

Or a suicide pill...

Mauer bagged out (again) of today's game due too "general soreness" even thoug he absolutely kills the opposing pitcher. Memo to Minnesota Twins: IS THERE SOMETHING YOU ARE NOT TELLING US IN REGARD TO MAUER?

The potential for something tragic exists?

Which would include MS --- would it not?

Rick, In the game a few weeks ago that was broadcast on fox saturday baseball, the commentators mentioned nearly immediately in mauer's first at bat that even though the team says he is healthy, clearly to them he was not. They said there was obviously something still bothering him that the team wasn't letting on about. I wish they would have shown their hand a bit more and gone into more detail about what they knew, it seemed as if they had plenty of extra that we didn't know.

Also, should I update this for the Twins as well? Linky link.

Rick, I think just a capital A at the end would suffice. Okay, that is a little critical, maybe two AA.

I did not think the Twins did Mauer any favors with their secretive treatment of whatever was wrong with him. "Bilateral leg weakness"? C'mon, that's what I feel when I mow the lawn! And I don't have to go to Fort Meyer for two months to recover.

Why not shut him down until he is back on the block?

I'm sticking to my early onset arthritis due to catching theory. If they suspected something neurological or even serious, I doubt he'd be out there playing. He wasn't playing badly since he's been back either. Not a $23.5 million performance, but not god-awful like most of the rest of the team.

Man, Thome's "run" to #600 is becoming more of a slow crawl to the grave...Gardy is running him out there daily to get to #599, and which point you will only see him play at Target Field.

Interesting Tweets from Span tonight, after it was said and done, he talked about how it was a joke.

thisisdspan: "I'm finding out who my true friends are on this team"

"If u can guess which teammate I'm talking about u will win 2 free tickets to a Yankees game! Lol"

"Im not being serious people. Just a joke. U guys love drama lol"

To be honest, I see a team that hasn't been functioning in weeks. Also, you also have the comment from someone anonymous in the clubhouse saying that Nishi is a AAA player. Not looking positive for team chemistry, which I think adds to why this team in underachieving.

Anyone have a link that shows the Twins' 2012 tentative schedule?

K

The 2012 schedule is not released until mid September.

However, I just saw a note in Sid's column today stating that the Twins are tentatively schedule to open April 5 in Baltimore, with the home opener scheduled for Monday April 9 vs LA Angels.

The 2012 schedule is not released until mid September.

However, I just saw a note in Sid's column today stating that the Twins are tentatively schedule to open April 5 in Baltimore, with the home opener scheduled for Monday April 9 vs LA Angels.

Delmon Young era ends - traded to Detroit: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/127759143.html

That better be one good PTBNL, but probably won't be.

Really surprised that they made the trade for Delmon inside the division. I guess that just shows what the market was for him.

Did the Twins trade him to Detroit since they are already in Detroit and could save that extra money on airfare? --rim shot--

It should give at least an interesting story to tonights game. And what truly shows the market for him was that he was allowed to be claimed off waviers by a first place team.

It will be interesting to see what Jim Leyland does if Delmon tries the "Go Fetch" play in Detroit.

They did not trade him so much as they got rid of him.

Rick --- I almost hate to bring it up because I think he probably deserves some more time, but --- Nishi might be your best option.

It's addition by subtraction. You rid yourself of a very poor fielding corner outfielder whose slugging percentage is practically imperceptible. And as an added bonus, you get rid of those ugly tattoos.

Why make this move now, though? Do the Twins really think this is the best they can do? Nelson supposedly has some good stuff and a decent ceiling, but he's not a very good pitcher right now.

This front office just seems so clumsy. They should have dealt "Mr. RBI" last offseason when he still likely had some value, or else waited until they could talk to more teams this offseason...

Before anybody freaks out looking for their tickets selling on StubHub..The price you list them at is not what is showing..StubHub included the fees now so if you list a ticket for say 129 it will show 141..New feature..

Bill "buy high sell low" Smith strikes again...

Does anybody think we'll have a new GM next year? Damn-near everything this guy has done has misfired. I'm just wondering if the Pohlads are getting restless with one of their own yet.

Just to summarize, we lost 2 decent players in extremely vulnerable areas for a non-impact pitcher and a PTBNL when this is all said and done.

If Mauer and Morneau have these kinds of years next year (assuming they play), these team will make the Royals look like the Phillies.

I have a feeling Bill is gearing up for that 4-year $50 million offer to Cuddy.

The more I think about it...Cuddy may not want to be back next year. Not sure he wants to spend the rest of his decent playing days in rebuilding mode.

And Delmon homers in his first at-bat as a Tiger.

That's just the way the entire season has gone for the Twins.

It's always a pleasure watching Delmon Young and Carlos Gomez hit home runs against the Twins...

One bright spot... #599.

#600!!!!

Congratulations, Jim Thome!!

Now, the Twins really need to win this game.

Congrats Thome!!

Didn't want to include this in the last message, but DANG! what is going to keep my tickets relevant now?

Man, I must've motivated him with my post last night! Too much so, as I was hoping to see it in person vs. the Yanks!

Even in the midst of a terrible season, baseball has the ability to deliver pure magic! What a wonderful night. Delmon's HR started the game, but by the end the story was Thome.

Back to the discussion of a few days ago and the dialogue between Rick and msp. Perhaps the solution is a happy medium between their two sentiments: don't bring back the trees, but do build a tree-themed restaurant behind smoked glass in the batter's eye. In keeping with the ballpark's other displays of respect for the team's glorious past, there could be dramatic wall carvings - maybe even holograms - honoring the 14 trees that were forced to move on to less hostile environs for the benefit of this sub-par team's sluggers. Poignant fan-contributed descriptions of each tree's fate could be presented in high-tech multimedia displays. Of course the food served would also be tree-themed; pancakes with maple syrup comes to mind, along with various fruits and nuts.

BBtT

Didn't realize how fast time went. Charley Walters in today's Saint Paul Shopper's Guide said that next month will be a year since the whole Wally the Beer Man thing at TF.

God, time moves fast.

Here's a question, what happened to the pic of TF at the header of BPM.com? It was ATT Park for a while, now nothing's been there for like two weeks.

Nish, Butera, Tosani...why do I keep seeing names of players that have no business being in the Major Leagues? Why, Bill? Why? How long does a guy have to hit .160 to get sent down? It's like my co-ed softball team when that one girl fails to show up...we take an automatic out at the bottom of the order. That's what this team is with Butera.

Love Delmon or hate him, I think the Tigers got a steal and took advantage of Bill. He can be a .290/25/90 guy for several years with the right team...a team that sticks him in RF. In return, we get two unnknowns who may remain unknown forever. What would we have gotten for him in the off-season?

I can forgive Bill for thinking he can build a team around M&M...it was impossible to see this coming from Morneau, not so much with Mauer and his knee history prior to The Contract From Hell. But, it's these other moves that drive me crazy!

Shut Mauer down for the year, get the surgery out of the way early, have a complete rehab planned for the off-season, Morneau to 3rd, Valencia to 2nd, Casilla/Plouffe at SS, hire a lawyer to find some escape clause with Nish. Revere, Span, and re-sign Cuddy if the price is right and the duraton is 3 years in the OF and Kubel at DH. Get rid of Cisco and Slowey, send Duensing back to the pen, get rid of Crapps, Nathan, and anybody in the bullpen not named Perkins. Spend some $$$ saved from Nathan and Crapps to get 1-2 decent starters to go with Pav, Baker and Blackburn. C'mon, Bill! There is no way a team can win with complete dead-weight comprising 1/3 to 1/2 of the batting order.

Love him or hate him, Walters said the following today "There isn't enough personal income in the Twin Cities to financially support four professional sports teams, according to a new study by Minneapolis-St Paul Business Journal."

Well, we won't need to worry about that for too long, after the Viqueens move to LA and the T-Wolves, as part of NBA restructuring, are contracted.

a real kreskin there aren't you.

"kreskin", as in the bio of the guy linked to my name (clicky)?
Maybe that should be my new nick around here: The Amazing Kreskin

I love that you quoted the Shooter as saying a different paper did a study.

I looked at the methodology of how they did the study(link) and it fails to mention anything about corporations and the money they spend on suites, tickets, and other things surrounding professional sports.

Now I freely admit I'm not a big statistics guy, but something about the whole study seems flawed and seems to have been conducted just to make headlines. All it really says is the teams ticket sales may be volatile.

Nice win tonight. Now lets hope we can take the next 11 at home.

It has been a long day, and I was hoping to figure out the Twins Elimination number, as MLB.com does not have this up yet. They usually have this in the standings, but do not yet.

For the optimists...Twins Magic Number 51

I am guessing the elimination number is 40, but thought I would check?

Okay, maybe 23?

2012 Season Ticket Prices have been announced....

I bet the Twins would have liked to increase the season ticket prices, but they knew they would get backlash considering the on-field product will not be very great in 2012.

Nice to see no increases! I still don't know if that will validate renewing or not, but if pricing is any indication, it will definitely be a buyer's market again in 2012.

Got a buddy going down to TF today who wants to try to get a Jim Thome autograph. Anyone have any tips for getting an auto around the player parking lot and such before the game or maybe a Thome grabber during the game that yields good autograph results?

And by during the game I don't actually mean during the game. I should have said after gates open during BP or before first pitch. Or how about after the game for that matter?

"As a Twins Season Ticket Holder, you know better than anyone else just how entertaining and affordable a game at Target Field can be."

Indeed. A hotdog is only $5.00, a beer is only $8.00, and watching one hoppers bounce off of Nishi's chest - what could be more entertaining?

"That's something you can look forward to continuing next year as we prepare for our 2012 season ticket renewal campaign, starting in the coming weeks."

Wonderful!!!

"We are tremendously thankful for your loyalty and support of Twins baseball and are committed to ensuring Twins season tickets remain a great value."

So much so that we have eliminated free ST bobbleheads for STH as well as media guides and scorecards. We will be diligently searching for other ways to "increase value" --- perhaps discontinuing complimentary Twinsfest tickets?

Speaking of TwinsFest...do you think it'll return to its rightful place at the Dumpty next year, now that Humpty Dumpty is once again inflated? Or will the Twins look for a new location?

No increase in ST prices for 2012. Also no announcement what single game prices will be (RED FLAG: They are going up). Rumors swirling that the Pohlad's want to reduce the payroll in 2012...Hmmmm

Are you renewing for 2012 Ben?

Maybe they will drop the pro-shop discount to 10% while at it...

luke -- it has already been announced (maybe not officially announced) that Twinsfest will return to Mall of America Field in 2012 the weekend of January 27-29.

Thanks, Mike. Hadn't heard that.

Glad Twinsfest will be back at the Dump next January. Blaine was pretty far out of the way for those of us coming from the south. Much easier to park & ride on the light rail. Also the Blaine site was pretty crowded. Tells you how this season has gone that I'm looking forward to an event in the dead of winter.

I'm guessing single-game prices will be increased. That's one way to ensure keeping the season ticket holders. However, with Stubhub, I'm guessing that doesn't work as well as the pre-stubhub days. 10 years ago (heck, two years ago) I bought single-game tickets through the Twins all the time. Not once the past two years.

That bench - or lack thereof - is ridiculous tonight. It reminds me of when I was coaching Little League and you'd sometimes have two or three kids at summer camp. "Let's see, you cover left and left center and you cover right and right center".

Starting in right field and batting third: Joe Mauer.

Think the bat-boy can be considered a 'bench player'?

Can I just say, when the Twins do these pre-game ceremonies (How many of THOSE have we had this year?), can't they start them earlier? Pushes the game way back.

The Twins are going to try and get $19/seat out of the god-awful home run porch? Good luck with that. For the first time in 3 years, the Twins ticket sales staff will be busy.

As a STH, the only way I care about the value of my tickets going up is if the price of standard admission goes up.

What is the differential between your ST cost per seat and what those seats would cost "standard" including fees? Couple of bucks a ticket? What do you lose in interest by fronting for the STs? Do you eat tickets for any reasons? Maybe just a bunch of split hairs. I think a guy who likes to go to several games a year - who isn't real picky about day/time/opponent parameters (in other words a guy who just likes going to see baseball get played at this level) - should be seriously considering the secondary market.

As a "for instance" --- right now from the Twins site you can get a couple of dandy seats for tonight's game for about $250 or standing room for $26 each plus fees. Or, at Stubhub, a couple of seats in 304 for $31.60 total. Lots of other options either way but if I was shopping I'd be doing it on Stubhub (or Craig's or the Bay).

good post rick. You would have to think that the Twins exhaust all other options BEFORE reducing ticket price. Even if that means cleaning out the proverbial closets, or still leftover dome stuff.

I'm wondering if your "advantages" are valid.

1.It's not selected or assigned - it's assigned, period. I can count the number of "pleasant" games I have attended with my STs on one hand and still have a finger left over to pick my nose with. It's been perhaps an odd year climate-wise, and maybe I've been unlucky, but the weather has been absolutely brutal more often than not for my wife and I.

2. Depends on where you acquire them.

3. Maybe, maybe not. We all know that the Twins' "Not a bad seat in the house" mantra is hogwash. In my opinion, at least, if you can't see the plate - or a significant portion of the field - sitting comfortably (if even that is possible), you are not getting what you paid for regardless of how little you paid.

4. What perks would you deem advantageous?

Now, I am generally happy with my STs and may well hang on to them while trying to improve upon them. But, there are definately other ways to accomplish the same goal and those ways are well worth consideration. Flexibility is a wonderful thing and might be easily a great deal less wallet intensive.