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Ballpark Odds and Ends

November 22, 2007 1:25 AM

Ramp A lobby view

As mentioned earlier, one of the best climate-controlled views of construction is from the 7th floor elevator lobby in the A ramp. (That's Noah getting his first glimpse of the new ballpark.)

As I write this, I'm reading first word that Torii has reached a deal with the LA Angels. He'll be playing in our new ballpark only as a visitor. *Sigh*

The other day I mentioned that the Downtown Journal ran a two-page spread (View as PDF) on some ballpark details. Regular readers here already know most of what was printed, but there were a few interesting new details.

- Windows on Seventh Street and the HERC side look into (or out of) the concession stand areas. This has great potential to brighten the interior and humanize the exterior (assuming you won't be looking at some hot dog vendor's ass).

- The mysterious triangle-shaped grassy knoll will be surrounded by wooden benches, and the frosted glass panel will "likely tell the story of Twins baseball." Do we agree that we're interested in a complete history of the franchise, and not just the Minnesota portion? I mean, Walter Johnson? Goose Goslin? Sam Rice? Heinie Manush? 1924 -- one of the greatest World Series wins ever? OK, there were some, ahem, lean decades. But, really...

- The plaza is slated to contain locust trees -- that is if they don't get cut out of the budget.

- Tinted windows will help reduce solar heat gain. This probably works toward LEED certification, but I have no idea how this is coming. Building "green" isn't just a good idea. It's an essential social responsibility. Let's hope this has remained a priority.

LRT bridge

I meant to include this shot the other day. It's the new LRT bridge being built next to the remaining half of the Fifth Street bridge. The new half is almost TWICE the width of the portion torn down. And the other end runs right into a HERC administration building! (Click to see the view from nearly the same spot about 85 years ago.)

- Steam from HERC will play a role in heating some areas.

- The street lamp designs seen on the model and animation are just placeholders. Nothing has been decided there.

- A cistern is part of the design. It will capture rain water which will be later used to irrigate the field.

- Heating the seats again gets a mention. This continues to be on the radar, but I've heard nothing optimistic about this from people in the know. They may just be blowing smoke on this one.

- The canopy may have solar panels on top. Really great idea.

- Wood for the circulation ramp enclosures will be "reclaimed from local sources." In other words, don't throw away that old fence wood! The Twins may need it!

Then there's this gem:

"Scores will be posted on a champagne-colored scoreboard." You mean, like, baseball scores? Really?? Wow.

The Ballpark Authority web site has added a section dedicated to construction photos. Natalie Hunter, the photographer, got to walk around in the mud and get some close-ups of dirt and trucks and footings and such.

Yeah, I'm jealous.


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It's to bad pohlad cant open his checkbook up he's the 5th richest owner in U.S. sports.

Posted on November 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM by kdoko Highlight this comment 1

Are you kidding? The Angels paid Torii twice what he's worth. Cherish the memories, it was a nice ride Torii, but you're not worth that kind of money, NO WAY! Thank you Billy Smith for not being an idiot!

So many fans think it was vital for Pohlad to sign Torii, just as it was for him to sign Kirby Puckett. Torii's stature with this franchise and community isn't even close to what Kirby's was. Torii is a great center-fielder and a streaky hitter at best. When he's on, he's great, when he's off, he sucks.

5 years, $90 million for Torii, more power to ya pal, I'm just glad the Twins didn't mortgage their future on your inconsistency.


Posted on November 22, 2007 at 09:01 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 2

As sad as it may sound, I think the Twins made the right decision to let Torii walk via free agency. No way was he worth that much money, especially considering his age and his career offensive stats. Yes, he was a gold-glove caliber centerfielder, but his offensive output was not worth the kind of salary he was demanding.

This will probably be another example of former Twins that have struggled in the major leagues once leaving Minnesota. Others include Eric Milton, Chuck Knoblauch, Joe Mays (who the Twins made a BIG mistake by signing a huge contract), Christian Guzman, Corey Koskie and so on. Those are just a few examples, but it goes to show the Twins were smart by not offering that kind of cash to keep Torii around for 5 plus seasons.

It will prove right when he "underachieves" in the eyes of the LA fans due to the expectations that come along with a 5 year, 90 million contract, especially in a major market such as Los Angeles.

Posted on November 22, 2007 at 2:16 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 3

Anaheim is not Los Angeles. Huge difference. :)

Posted on November 22, 2007 at 2:58 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 4

Yeah -- because there's no pressure at all getting the largest contract in franchise history (I think I read that about his deal). I agree with the sentiments here. It would have been nice to keep him, but a 32-year-old 5/6 hitter is not worth $18 million a year. Especially for a team that needs money for its younger stars. 3 years and $45 million was reasonable. But an additional two years and $3 million a year was too much. I hope the Angels are happy with their deal when Torii is 36, playing in only 100 games and hitting .250 with 70 runs and 70 RBI.

Posted on November 22, 2007 at 8:35 PM by The Tube Highlight this comment 5

I hate to say it but come 2010 the twins are not going to be fun to watch.

Posted on November 23, 2007 at 12:36 AM by Kyle Highlight this comment 6

i am and always will be a die-hard Twins fan, but why oh why do the pohlad's, terry ryan & billy smith (dr. no) have to make it so hard sometimes?!

for me it is not that torri ended up in anaheim. it is the fact that even though Minneapolis will have one of the best ballparks in the majors come 2010 and the Twins will have significant new revenue streams they didn’t have in the dome i still have this unfortunate sick feeling in my gut that pohlad and jimmy boy will remain the richest tight wads in professional sports history. something says they will continue to willingly ignore reality and not play the free agent game that teams must if they actually want to compete year after year. that and I fear that billy smith may be in over his head as an mlb gm.

i certainly hope i am wrong.

once the patriarch passes in the next couple years i hope either jim starts running the twins payroll like the top notch mlb team they claim they want to be or sells the franchise to a new owner who will spend what it takes for the Twins to win world series titles again.

Posted on November 23, 2007 at 02:33 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 7

so I'm 24... and I just started watching baseball... crazy huh? Last season was the first season I've ever watched. When I was a kid, I grew up with kirby, and I remember the excitement he brought, but never really saw it. Torii brought a lot of excitement to my first season watching the twins... and a few letdowns. Its not his callibur I'll miss... it's his quality. Good man... Good luck in LA... :-( oh yeah, but wait... I spend my winters in LA. So he's still kinda mine ;-)

Posted on November 23, 2007 at 03:35 AM by travis s Highlight this comment 8

the twins did the right thing long-term. they have other younger players that will probably demand more than that in a year or two. if(when?) we have this situation with santana, this will be a LOT harder. we can only hope that the twins didn't sacrifice santana at the expense of torii.

Posted on November 23, 2007 at 09:12 AM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 9

Torii is one of todays greatest outfielders, no doubt. But I never saw him as a great team leader like some say. I've never seen a player in my life make more mistakes on the base paths then Torri. A team leader leads by example. He ran the bases like a rookie. I would have liked to see him stay, but I'm not heartbroken over it. He isn't worth that amount of money IMO.

Posted on November 23, 2007 at 11:00 AM by John Highlight this comment 10

If Torii isn't worth 18M/yr? and Santana's not worth 25M/yr? and Silva's not worth 10M/yr? and Nathan isn't worth 15M/yr? who's left that's worth anything?

Players are worth what they get. Trying to build a contender on the cheap just makes winning a championship doubly tough and spits in the face of loyal fans.

Posted on November 23, 2007 at 11:35 AM by Duke Highlight this comment 11

Duke - Well said buddy! You hit the nail on the head. People/fans who are just cheap, frugal SOB's at heart themselves can't seem to grasp this concept of professional sports in the 21st century. Most of the time in life you get what you pay for and that includes pro athletes.

There is no free lunch and championships on the cheap in any sport especially with supposed “fan favorites” - read below average baseball players - like Lew Ford, Matthew LeCroy, Jason Tyner & Nick Punto (his only saving grace is that he can play defense) come along about as often as Haley's Comet.

Posted on November 23, 2007 at 2:18 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 12

What you see is what you get people!

Hartman on KFAN yesterday said that this is Jim Pohlads team and has been since at least mid season. Papa Pohlad is basically blissfully ignorant (no disrespect as I won't make it close to 90)but this is just God's way of making sure the final years aren't overly burdensome.

The point is; those of you holding out for some sort of managerial change in SOP (standard operating proceedure) upon "Papa's passing" are not going to get it. In fact, I think the clubs recent generosity could be linked to an attempt to keep the Twins relevant while Carl was lucid. Now that he isn't, it's back to the old recipe. I expect the Twins payroll to decline significantly over the next couple of years.

Posted on November 24, 2007 at 11:29 AM by Duke Highlight this comment 13

I consider baseball owners as stewards of the game. If it was not for the Pohlad family we would not even have a team or a stadium to discuss. Yes they are filthy rich, but that has only caused stability in the franchise and assured, with Carl's loyalty, that the Twins are still here and we are now building a new stadium. I want to thank Carl for his tenure as steward of the Twins. He has a class organization and he has given us two world championships to gloat about. His teams are competative and fun to watch. Because we do not retain our high-priced free agents does not make the Twins cheap, just practical. Lets face it, Hunter never wanted to sign with us. It was his turn in the spotlight, and he went with the one who would pay the most. Our mistake was not trading him last season and getting something for him. I always thought with the immergence of Justin M and Joe M, Tori lost his limelight, and he did not like it. It is now time for our younger stars to step up and make it their team. As for Santana, as great as he is, a trade can really fill some holes in our club. Throwing money around does not always win championships, just ask the Yankees.

Posted on November 24, 2007 at 5:32 PM by Paul Highlight this comment 14

I was reading Sid Hartman's article in today's (Sunday) Star Tribune and in it, Torii Hunter mentions that free agents will not be attracted to Minnesota in the future because there will be no roof on the stadium? I just thought this was a ridiculous statement for someone who just signed a 5 year $90 million contract with the Angels.

My point is, if the Twins are competitive in 2010 and offer a contract to a free agent which would be too good to turn down, he would not come here because there is no roof?

Excuse me, but we hear people complain about the hard field at the Metrodome and that tough environment to play in with the lights and the roof. If New York, Baltimore, Boston, Detroit, Chicago, and other northern cities can attract players, I don't see why Minnesota cannot (assuming they are competitive).

What do other people think about those comments Torii made to Sid? Just curious what others think of it.

Posted on November 25, 2007 at 12:33 AM by Luke Highlight this comment 15

Paul - Please! LMAO!

While you make a nice sounding speech the last thing anyone wants or needs is another apologist for a billionaire who refuses to wake up to the reality of the game and step up far enough ahead of time to sign our star players to contract extensions they deserve so we can remain legitimately competitive. They made that mistake with Hunter and now with Santana. Inexcusable!

And you are wrong. Not retaining our legit free agents in the shadow of a new 21st century baseball exclusive stadium not only makes Pohlad cheap, it makes the entire organization appear ill-prepared, stubborn and unwilling to strive for real greatness. Just winning a few division championships and maintaining the status quo is not enough. Real fans should demand a product that can realistically compete for World Series titles.

Just look at the winter of 2006. Most would say all we needed was a power hitting DH or 3rd baseman and a quality pitcher to replace Radke in the rotation and the Twins had as good a shot as anyone in the AL to make it to the World Series. No, what do we get as loyal fans - Sidney Ponson, Ramon Ortiz and Jeff Cirillo. Cheap players at the end of their careers.

"Throwing" money around at legit free agents as you stated does not always guarantee success in the end, but it sure doesn't hurt your chances either.

Let me know when you finish building that bronze bust of Carl Pohlad in your basement. I would love to see it.

Posted on November 24, 2007 at 6:25 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 16

The Twins lost with Hunter and they'll lose without him.

I know this hurts for some of the 30-something Twins fans. But this doesn't hurt nearly as much as watching Carew go to the Angels and Killer going to the Royals. In fact, I was more pissed when Jack Morris went to the Blue Jays.

Now with runners in scoring position and 2 out, Hunter can strike out for some other team while SMILIN' ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BENCH.

Posted on November 25, 2007 at 10:21 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 17

Luke - I saw Sid's column as well. The problem I had with it is while Sid said that Torii said that, the quote following that statement had nothing to do with playing in a roofless stadium. It is probably just another case of Sid having no clue what he is talking about.

Posted on November 25, 2007 at 10:52 AM by IowaWigman Highlight this comment 18

A lot can be interpreted from a teams actions and inaction. Like its commitment to winning. Is crappy baseball more entertaining outdoors? we'll find out.

Posted on November 25, 2007 at 3:59 PM by Duke Highlight this comment 19

Where's Betaband ?? Must be working on another speech. A speech, I'm sure, which will educate us all.

Posted on November 25, 2007 at 5:59 PM by John Highlight this comment 20

Carl has pumped millions into multiple stadium campaigns, and he's finally got one. Truth is, I'm psyched the Twins will have a new park - but no one is more pleased with the future rise in revenue and team equity than Carl's family. Word is that the Pohlad's feel like they've "earned" the revenue coming to them with this stadium. I'm not expecting to see a huge rise in payroll the first year or two, as the Twins will draw extremely well with the new park.

I wonder what rooting for the Pirates is like - they have a really nice new park.

Posted on November 25, 2007 at 6:10 PM by Jeff B. Highlight this comment 21

John - Don't be a tool buddy. It would be great if you actually "added" something meaningful & interesting to these discussions. So far based on the stuff you post it doesn't seem like you have much to say at all except rehashing tired comments others have already made and I have alreay read by Jim Souhan in the Strib.

Your recycled drivel is weak and most of us have heard it all before. Your turn shooter.

Posted on November 25, 2007 at 6:48 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 22

Luke, I don't think Torii's comments mean anything because the twins don't sign any good free agents in the first place, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Posted on November 25, 2007 at 10:48 PM by Kyle Highlight this comment 23

Kyle - you have obviously forgotten about Tony Batista, Brett Boone, Sidney Ponson, etc ;-)

Posted on November 26, 2007 at 09:42 AM by IowaWigman Highlight this comment 24

Torii Hunter was a Great Fielder, But probably the worst clutch hitter in team history and probably has the Twins record for grounding into double plays. "Hit it to Right Torii!!" Your average will go up 50 points.

Have fun Angel Fans. But, if you do need a homer when you have a 10 run lead, you got your man, for the bargin price of $18 mil per year.

Posted on November 26, 2007 at 10:28 AM by Jon Highlight this comment 25

Most players want to play on natural turf, which requires a roof-less stadium. Also, I don't take Torii too seriously -- he has been a lifelong Twin, and now he's leaving. Kind of like a divorce. People say stupid things when they are breaking up.

Posted on November 26, 2007 at 10:56 AM by Dave T Highlight this comment 26

I'm going to miss hunter and the twins bungled this by doing nothing before last season. I hope they learn from their mistakes and lock up cuddyer and morneau. Hunter's fielding will be difficult to replace and their lineup was weak even with him around. I'm disappointed the inactivity on the part of the part of the team is contuining in spite of the prospect of a great new ballpark where they'll reap all the revenue just a couple of short years away. I understand not paying 90 mil. but they could've gotten him for much less last offseason. It's the job of the Twins GM to make the case to the executives controlling the budgets why we need certain players. The loss of Hunter is also a marketing/PR problem for the team. Bad performance all around with this one.

Posted on November 26, 2007 at 3:53 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 27

Building this stadium to increase revenue to spend on free agents is like MNDOT adding a lane to 494 to help ease traffic, albeit 20 years too late. After the imminent Santana trade, the Twins payroll will have shrunk by almost 30% for next season. While they may add some "interesting" free agents, it won't impact the overall number much. This assures they'll be in lower 3rd of the league when measuring payroll.

By most accounts the new stadium will add about 40 million in revenue to the Twins who've committed about 52% of revenues to payroll and have stated that this ratio will continue, so that means about 21 million can be added to the payroll in 2010 which would bring the total up to what the Twins spent last season!

The stadium will add to the overall experience of attending a game, but those who think it'll contribute to on field success will be disappointed.

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 08:02 AM by Duke Highlight this comment 28

The Hunter/Santana issue seems worse in my eyes because of the obvious PR issue. The public kicks in millions of dollars (which I'm in favor of), but then what do the Twins do, they immediately cuts ties with two of their star players. Not that anyone should be surprised, since this is what they do, new stadium or no new stadium, but this now paints them in an extremely poor light, and makes the public feel like they got bamboozled. Kind of a head scratcher since their position has always been that they need a new stadium to keep these players. Unfortunately it's just business as usual.

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 09:50 AM by B Highlight this comment 29

They better not give Johan to the evil emire, I was always for the stadium, only for them to do this?

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 12:12 PM by CTM Highlight this comment 30

This is all a result of a major problem within major league baseball and that is overspending by teams. Yes, some teams are able to spend that much money such as the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Red Sox, and Angels. But we have to ask ourselves, when is enough enough? A salary cap would be nice, but that would not be good for baseball as you would not be able to retain key players for more than a few years at a time. I Think MLB needs to look at an alternative such as the NBA and have the different "levels" of pay that coincides with the experience of the players. Aside from that, MLB needs to have a better system in place for a luxury tax. That way the teams that want to spend big, are able to do so, only on a limited basis however. I realize they have a luxury tax in place already, but they need to lower the threshold a little bit.

All of this overspending by teams is making me sick and you have to wonder when something will be done about it. As long as MLB continues to thrive and bring in billions of dollars in revenues each year, the salaries will continue to rise with it. Tickets are also going to be very expensive in the coming years, you just have to hope that something will be worked out in the next collective bargaining agreement.

The "average" fan and his family will not even be able to afford to go to a baseball game in the coming years the way the ticket prices continue to rise.

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 12:26 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 31

The Twins could've had him for less coming off last season, this is why the Twins, specifically the sainted Terry Ryan screwed up. Tori Hunter isn't just any member of the team....stupid move. They want to keep stringing these players out, (unless their last name is Mauer). They'll be lucky to be 500 next season.

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 12:41 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 32

this is a little off topic, but does anyone else think the twins are going to update their jerseys when they move into the new park? I would love to see them reintroduce baby blue into their color scheme, and focus on the "TC" logo more than the "M" logo. click on my name for an example

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 4:37 PM by evan Highlight this comment 33

Sorry to interrupt this discussion about Torii leaving for the O.C., but the first bits of limestone for the park were cut today down in Mankato.

Click on my name for more.

"and now, back to the story."
"Are you gonna be in there all day?"
"It's just a bulletin."

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 6:11 PM by Pikachu732001 Highlight this comment 34

what have we heard from the twins for years? "we don't trade our prospects."

ah, so we groom them and squeeze them to get better and better and just hope they get good in time to squeak out a division title.

then the time comes to keep those groomed players who are solid contributors, they let 1 walk and are close to trading another.

the twins' front office players are smart and business-like and admittedly know more about mlb than any of us, but how can they not see what a huge buzzkill this is? isn't this opposite of what should happen w/ the future of the stadium guaranteed? they should be spending money and keeping their success stories AND adding to it. i feel like i just got a promotion, but then realized that my taxes went up more than the added income.

the more i process this, the angrier i get.

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 7:21 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 35

I totally agree!! I was SO looking forward to this ballpark and everything it brought (or was supposed to bring!), but now I'm not so sure.

I don't consider myself a bandwagon fan as I have been a Twins fan for a while now through thick and thin, but if Santana is sent off (and as the Star Trib is reporting in tomorrow's edition: possibly Nathan after him), I will seriously consider hanging up my fan-ship and moving on to a team whose ownership actually cares about winning. I seriously cannot see much to look forward to with this bunch. Yeah we will be moving into a legit, open air ballpark and "rebuilding." Great, so we can just trade those players once they become stars too?? Sweet. And I totally agree with whoever said it before that Jim Pohlad driving the team now even though Carl takes the heat. we won't even see any change in the near future - just mediocrity, an "almost-there" mentality, and cheap spending. Can't wait! No. As much as it may pain me to do (and yes I know I have to be patient to see what actually happens this offseason...everyone warned it would be rough for MN fans to hear all the trade rumors), if it actually does happen, I may have to give up my hometown team and the team I have loved so much for so long. A fan can only take so much, right? (No I'm not going to be a Yankees fan or something crazy like that just cause they spend tons of money, but an owner that cared and who would recognize valuable talent when he had it would be nice).

Don't get me wrong...I have been following this stadium issue for years now and LOVE this blog...(Rick you are awesome!), but what fun will it be to have a beautiful new ballpark with a lackluster AAA team on the field?? I will still follow it, but it won't be as special or the same.

I don't envy Bill Smith at all for what he has to work with now, but I hope he does the right thing and saves this team and this franchise. Please Mr Jim Pohlad...let us have a team we can be proud of!!!

Thanks, Frustrated

Posted on November 27, 2007 at 10:35 PM by Frustrated Highlight this comment 36

I never understood the 'home town team' argument. That by some law of nature I'm required/expected to give my support to a franchise that, by coincidence, plays its home games in the city where I live. In this day, with the internet and satellite? I don't have to default to the home team because they're followed in the local paper. I at least want to support a team (management and ownership) that proves to me BY ITS ACTIONS that its accepting of the current economy and will do what it takes to try and win. I work too hard for my money and no less is expected from me, everyday, but to give my very best. I will vote with my pocket book by NOT financially supporting, in any way, this sorry excuse for a franchise. Good riddance!

Posted on November 28, 2007 at 07:51 AM by D Highlight this comment 37

Amen Luke. They need to quit paying "Averave players" Superstar contracts. That just makes the superstars more expensive. It is a very bad precedent to set, and salaries will just keep rising. i.e. Torii Hunter, Jon Garland, most of the yankees and mets...this list could go on..and on.

I really like watching these guys play, but look at their numbers, they are NOT superstars. If I'm going to pay a guy 18 million a year he better have a bust in Cooperstown 5 years after he's done.

Posted on November 28, 2007 at 09:33 AM by Jon Highlight this comment 38

here goes another of our prospects...

Posted on November 28, 2007 at 2:30 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 39

this is getting interesting...

i'm actually warming up to the idea of this front end of the batting order:

1. R ellsbury
2. L mauer
3. R cuddyer
4. L morneau
5. R young

(why gardy keeps mauer at the 3 is beyond me...)

Posted on November 28, 2007 at 3:34 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 40

Well the Twins desperately need bats in the lineup as it has showed over the years. They have the young pitching talent to give up. You gotta be willing to give up talent if you want talent in return. Its about time the Twins trade some of those pitching prospects for some bats. I hate to see Garza go, but you need to be willing to give up some talent if you want to get talent in return.

Posted on November 28, 2007 at 5:43 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 41

Delmon will out perform Morneau in 2008. This is very exciting news and I for one am excited to watch him and morneau dropping home runs onto light rail tracks at the new stadium.

After reading the past days quotes, I am also going to sign this post Frustrated. The reason though isn't because of the business decision this team is making - it's because of how scared everyone is here of change. Small market teams aren't supposed to afford be able to afford a player like Santana at his prime. Blame Selig, not the Twins front office though. Plus, did we win anything with him or Torii? Would you prefer they make the same mistake Mchale did by waiting waaaaaaaaay too long to provide a solution to mediocrity? I hate rooting for a team just good enough to keep our hopes up, only to be surpassed by a team that built with youth and didn't make the big mistake (i.e. Oakland, Florida). Everyone seems to forget a couple of guys named Morneau, Cuddyer, and Mauer - all of whom I would be more heartbroken to see leave. These guys aren't whining about money and exposure. They are the kind of people I can't wait to root for in 2010.

Posted on November 28, 2007 at 11:19 PM by John K Highlight this comment 42

i have to admit that i kind of like today's young-garza deal with the devil rays and honestly think the twins will end up getting the far better end of this deal in the long run.

now we can only hope the pohlads will actually let billy smith go out and make some additional "legit" deals that will help us right away (i.e. next year, rather than 2010) at the winter meetings next week.

Posted on November 29, 2007 at 12:03 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 43

How does Young add a bat minus Torii? His stats are virtually the same with 10 fewer home runs? plus the baggage?

This lineup is no different. And if Young pans out, he's only under contract through next year. I don't get it.

Posted on November 29, 2007 at 06:44 AM by Duke Highlight this comment 44

yea, ok i calmed down. billy smith made a good move. keep 'em coming. as much as i like santana, no pitcher who appears every 5th day is worth 120 million. might as well follow the colorado/florida model now that we've let hunter go.

Posted on November 29, 2007 at 09:30 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 45

Good move, Mr. Smith. Torii is 11 years older, and Delmon has got HUGE upside as well as the minor league prospect. Let's hope we can that much more for Santana as we got for Garza!

Posted on November 29, 2007 at 11:10 AM by Jeff B. Highlight this comment 46

There is NO chance on Ellsbury. What's our rotation with Santana gone? No Garza and no Nathan? is Baker our #1? Boof? That's ugly

Posted on November 29, 2007 at 4:34 PM by Duke Highlight this comment 47

Check out the Tampa Bay Rays new ballpark. Looks like a modern Royals Stadium. Very cool.

And for the record, I'd take Delmon over Garza any day of the week. The Twins gave up value to get more talented value. This trade fits both teams needs.

Posted on November 29, 2007 at 4:58 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 48

starting rotation next year?

#1 L liriano
#2 R slowey (good control pitcher to go after "the franchise")
#3 L perkins (hoping he comes back)
#4 R baker (will he ever go thru puberty?)
#5 R silva (haven't lost faith in the chief quite yet...)

your thoughts?

Posted on November 30, 2007 at 1:23 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 49

Silva won't be here next season, and I wouldn't pay him what the market says he's worth. They'll be a pitcher in that rotation next year that we'll be getting in the upcoming Santana trade.

Posted on November 30, 2007 at 2:20 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 50

Caple at ESPN wrote an interesting article targeting Pohland for not paying to keep Santana. Most of his argument is leveraged on the fact that fans are paying for a new stadium. Check out my link if you're interested.

Posted on November 30, 2007 at 2:30 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 51

I didn't know the Devil Rays were planning a new stadium. Is it a reality, or is it something like ours that took forever to get approved? I think it looks kinda funky.

Posted on November 30, 2007 at 3:23 PM by J. Highlight this comment 52

Young will not be a free agent for another five years.

It's amazing how many people here in the cities hate this deal but on the flipside people who know baseball think it's a great one.

I'm all for moving Santana and Nathan. Sell them while their value is high. Look at the AJ deal for a small example

Posted on November 30, 2007 at 10:31 PM by Matt Highlight this comment 53

I love the line in the ESPN article mentioned by Jeff above...

"Carl Pohlad is a billionaire banker who pinches his coins so often he could be sued for sexual harassment by Susan B. Anthony."

That's great.

Posted on December 1, 2007 at 10:18 AM by Jon Highlight this comment 54

I agree with Matt. At this point, build the team for the opening of the ballpark. The Garza trade makes sense, and the Santana trade proposals all make sese as well.

If the Yanks offer Melky Cabera AND Phil Hughes PLUS two minor leaguers for a guy that doesn't want to play here, how do the Twins turn that down? Then trade Nathan, and this team will struggle for a couple years, yes, but that young core is there (as it was in the early '90's) to make a nice run once the ballpark opens in 2010. I'd rather see that than throwing money away on a few players, and letting the rest of the team struggle along with the likes of Lew Ford and Jayson Tyner...

Posted on December 1, 2007 at 10:48 AM by Moose Highlight this comment 55

Moose - FYI. Don't worry about Lew Ford. The Twins sent him to the minors and then released him a couple months ago. So, thankfully no more listening to the few morons who still yelled "Leeewwww" all game long (thank God!) when he did play.

Posted on December 1, 2007 at 3:17 PM by Jim Souhan's Brother - Stevie Souhan Highlight this comment 56

I'd liked Lew, and I hope he has a good season in Japan next year.

Posted on December 2, 2007 at 08:41 AM by James Highlight this comment 57

Major league ball in the Tampa Bay area is a tough sell. Having lived there for a time, you have legions of Yankees and Red Sox fans. the "Rays" get the leftovers. And you also have the fact that any team in that division not from New York or Boston will almost always be second division to them. Summers in Florida are insanely hot and humid and it rains late afternoon, early evenings. A retractable roof, as in Miami, is a must.

Posted on December 3, 2007 at 08:13 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 58

Temporary scaffolding is going up in the right field corner. This has to be for the deck pour.

Posted on December 3, 2007 at 3:45 PM by The K Man Highlight this comment 59

how anyone ever like lew ford is beyond me. the guy was easily the worst hitter i have ever seen. i mean the guy couldnt even take a big cut without falling over (fell to his knees at least 60%) of his swings. what a clown, siyanra.

Posted on December 3, 2007 at 9:41 PM by karl Highlight this comment 60

Lew Ford = Good Riddance...I do not know why so many fans liked him...there is a reason he was "forced" to play in Japan and that was because he was not good enough to play on a major league team.

Posted on December 6, 2007 at 2:42 PM by Jason Highlight this comment 61

I love this site i visit it everyday, never post though... I now must admit some of you are making this an unbearable place to visit... If you wanna bitch about the Lew's and Tori's of the world, go somewhere else.. It's a stadium website in case ya didnt realize

Posted on December 6, 2007 at 6:14 PM by LaRose Highlight this comment 62

Its 8:15 at night and its nice to look at the webcam and see the workers still out there working hard. I cant wait to see Delmon hit home runs over the light rail!

Posted on December 6, 2007 at 8:19 PM by MOJO Highlight this comment 63

Both of them?

Posted on December 7, 2007 at 07:04 AM by D Highlight this comment 64

It's a site devoted to the ballpark we the taxpayers are predominantly footing the bill for. Discussion about the club's future and it's fortunes as it moves to the park are fair game. The Twins will be practically printing their own money in a couple years with all the revenue streams going directly to them. The product on the field should reflect that and the realities of the business of baseball.

Posted on December 7, 2007 at 09:07 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 65

Just walked down to the site and there definitely is a ballpark coming to life. It is an awesome sight to see!!!

Posted on December 7, 2007 at 1:38 PM by MOJO Highlight this comment 66

Does anyone know if the garbage burner will get relocated?

Posted on December 7, 2007 at 3:19 PM by Kyle Highlight this comment 67


Taxpayers in Hennepin County are helping pay for a majority of this ballpark so we have a right to talk about the team and the future. You can't have a ballpark unless you have a team to play in it. You can't have a team to play in the ballpark unless you have the players. The point being, players and the team are a major part of the ballpark in which they will play in and the future of the team. As long as I am helping fund the ballpark, I will talk about anything related to the ballpark which includes players.

Posted on December 7, 2007 at 6:39 PM by Jason M. Highlight this comment 68


Taxpayers in Hennepin County are helping pay for a majority of this ballpark so we have a right to talk about the team and the future. You can't have a ballpark unless you have a team to play in it. You can't have a team to play in the ballpark unless you have the players. The point being, players and the team are a major part of the ballpark in which they will play in and the future of the team. As long as I am helping fund the ballpark, I will talk about anything related to the ballpark which includes players.

Posted on December 7, 2007 at 6:39 PM by Jason M. Highlight this comment 69

I agree with the previous posts - as long as the fans and taxpayers are footing a majority of the bill to build the ballpark, they have a right to talk about the team and the future. You are crazy LaRose if you think it's not acceptable to talk about players and the future of the franchise. Yes, this is a ballpark site, but it also has a lot to deal with the Twins and the future of the franchise as well. That includes the players.

Posted on December 8, 2007 at 6:37 PM by Randy Highlight this comment 70

hello? it's been almost two months....

Posted on January 3, 2008 at 09:03 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 71

This page was last modified on January 21, 2010.

"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3046 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.

This gate opens onto Seventh Street from the circulation ramps, but it appears to actually be an entrance gate, rather than an exit gate. It has something of a Bat Cave feel about it because it's not a gate proper, but an area of louvers that will swing in, virtually disappearing when closed...

This is one complicated streetscape.

Looking up toward Sixth Street.

Plaza extension reaches toward First Avenue

Concept drawing of Coomer gate (click to enlarge)

(Click to enlarge)

Beams connecting the plaza to the Target Center walkway

Detail at Gate 6

8:02 PM It's at peak, affecting mostly the upper deck.

Here's the view from the main concourse out through Gate 3 "Killebrew".

Here's the field of posts which will support the third base side of the grandstand. Some walls have started to appear about where the Northstar riders will enter the park.

The view from my seats in Section 237 (The Trap), Row 1 (can't see much of center field without standing up...)

Now looking north, the tracks emerge from beneath Seventh Street as freight tracks only. The Northstar line ends at the northwest corner of the ballpark. One day, however, you can bet that other passenger trains will approach from the southwest metro on these tracks -- if our legislators are smart and persistent, that is.

World Series trophies on display at left

Work has begun on the plaza, and the activity has started to impact I-394 traffic.

Detail of view to the northeast (Source: LP)

Nathan greeting the other pitchers on the all-Metrodome team (October 4, 2009)

The sign reads, "Mortenson Radio Channels".

Back of scoreboard; facade in context.

TC gets ready to release the hounds. (Kids get to run the bases after Sunday games.)

The Overlook

Dancing for the cameras

That's Bert back at the Met on Photo Day, September 15, 1974.

And another angle looking at the overhang area of the right field pavilion. This looks to me like a great area to watch a game.

Did you notice the flowers?

The overhang as seen through the unnumbered gate

Once again, Noah is holding his ears because of the traffic noise.

Carew atrium menu part 1

"I've never seen them do that before," said a Metropolitan Club waiter as I snapped this picture.

A closer look at the louvers


BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis


First Edition (1992)

Second Edition (2006)


Selected Bibliography - Surveys


Second Edition (1987)

Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title

(2000, large coffee table)

Original edition (2000, round)

Revised edition (2006, round)

(2001, medium coffee table)

(2002, small coffee table)

(2003, medium coffee table)

(2004, very large coffee table)

(2006, very large coffee table)

Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia


Book and six ballpark miniatures

Complete Bibliography

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