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October 20, 2007 12:27 AM

I'm about to give you all of my money
And all I'm askin' in return, honey
Is to give me my profits
When you get home...

The Gospel according to Aretha -- to be disregarded at your own peril.


You are most likely to hear me talk about respect as it applies to how a ballpark interacts with the game. Certain parks have inherent respect for it, others are neutral or indifferent, still others actively disrespect it. (We could argue for days about which parks fit where, but probably all agree that the Metrodome falls squarely in the latter category.)

But two things in the past couple of days compel me to talk about respect for the game from beyond just the architecture:

"Why panic? If we don't do it, we'll come back next year and try again. If it doesn't happen, who cares? There's always next year. It's not the end of the world." -- Manny Ramirez

"I've been there 12 years and I didn't think motivation was needed." -- Joe Torre

Does Manny respect the game? At the plate, I believe he does. On the basepaths and in the outfield? Um, debatable.

But the quote above is simply not about whether or not he respects the game. It's also not about whether or not he wants to win, or whether or not he'll give 100% on the field (whatever Manny's 100% turns out to be).

That quote is about staying loose and remembering that life goes on, win or lose. Believe it or not, a quote like that tells me that Manny is in a place where winning is still a possibility because pressure and fear isn't choking the loose out of him. Can't win with no loose (especially if you're Manny).

My point is, don't mistake Manny's words for disrespect for the game. Actions will always speak louder than words.

So...the Yankees.

Joe Torre seems like just about the classiest guy in the game. Joe Torre is the embodiment of respect for the game.

So what can we say about an organization which tosses him off (make no mistake: they knew he'd turn down that offer) with the vast success he's produced? Where would the YES Network be without 12 consecutive post-season appearances and four world championships? Where would that organization be without a master of ego-management at the helm?

In the Commonwealth of Steinbrenner, there's only one measure of success, and it's binary. Either you won it all or you lost it all. There is no, "we had a great season" unless it ends with "because we won the World Series." Believe it or not, my friends, that is a stance which actively disrespects the game.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not about to tell you that "it's how you played the game" or some BS like that. At any other level you can get away with that -- not in the majors. The majors are about winning. When you win, you make the big money. It's a business, and winning is a key part of the business plan. (For now, we'll set aside the mid-90s Twins philosophy of "lose profitably".)

But there's been a whole helluva lot of winning on Torre's watch, and he gets a whole helluva lot of credit for making it possible. He didn't win the games by himself, nor is he some master in-game wizard (Baseball Prospectus gets on him for unwise use of relief pitching), but he doesn't need to be. Managing the Yankees in the Nosebleed Payroll/Media Fishbowl Era is about something completely different.

And though I don't claim to know exactly what it is about, I think it's fair to say that Joe Torre is the master of it.

So, you just don't shit on somebody who's been one of the faces of your franchise for that long. You just don't shit on somebody who's done everything asked of him and more but fallen inches short of the goal. You just don't shit on somebody who has made it possible for you to make more money than your franchise could have dreamed of when he first stepped in.

Yeah, you wanted to win it all in 2007. Boo-hoo. Did you forget about the amazing run that got you into the play-offs this year? Did that happen by accident? Did you forget about the injuries and the failed experiments and the dumb bad luck (those darn gnats)?

Respecting the game means acknowledging that, while winning is your goal and it can't be compromised, not winning is not necessarily a failure to meet your goal. Assessing the factors that went into not-winning -- and being deadly honest about it -- is what GMs get paid for. Was Joe Torre one of the reasons for not winning?

That's what offends me most about the Yankees management's handling of this disgusting episode: Their offer implies that Torre wasn't really trying to win the World Series. Their incentive-stuffed package said that they openly doubted that he was sufficiently motivated to go for it all. They were saying, in essence, "We need you to step it up a notch."

Perhaps there are some managers about whom these may be fair criticisms, but not Joe Torre.

You respect the game when you go for it all. You respect the game when you compete at the highest level possible. You also respect the game when you upgrade personnel at all levels in order to win.

But you disrespect the game when you are unwilling to acknowledge the vast successes which have been achieved. You disrespect the game when you don't own your mistakes. You disrespect the game when greed and insanely competitive furor trample the people who do -- and do well -- the hard work.

Remember what I said earlier about loose? Here's a suggestion for the Steinbrenners: A little more loose wouldn't hurt your club. Let down your hair. It's just a game. It's just money. Life goes on. Have fun. Stop and admire your own homeruns once in a while (make sure they're really gone first). You know you want to.

Wait. Maybe patterning the New Yankees after Manny isn't such a good idea. But you know what I mean.


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Rick, I just want to say that I have disrespected the Yankees since I was a kid. (I'm 43 now). Even though I rooted against him and his team everytime they took the field, I always admired and liked Joe Torre. Now that he says goodbye to NY, the next time his team takes the field, I may end up rooting for them for the first time in a long time.

Posted on October 20, 2007 at 11:56 AM by John Highlight this comment 1

At least Torre can finally grow out those sideburns.

Posted on October 20, 2007 at 10:45 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 2

Yeah! Finally some progress we can see...looks like there a bunch of pillars starting up in right field...and the bridge is looking like it'll finsih up soon too.

I don't know about you, but I can start to see a ballpark here - I can't wait! All I know is it'll look better than watching this thing get built (see link), hahah.

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 11:07 AM by Excited Highlight this comment 3

Excited - Great link. Why in the f-ing world did we ever build that hiddeous thing and think it was going to be embraced by Minneapolis sports fans?! Metrodome = worst sports facility decision ever. Can't wait for the new balllpark & gopher football stadium (TCF Bank Stadium) to be finished so we can take the wrecking ball to the dome and move the vikings into a new facility as well.

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 3:28 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 4


The Vikings do not need a new facility. The Dome is a good football venue. That Wilf wants to build a $1 billion+ stadium for 8 games a year is ludicrous. It's almost as stupid as building it out in Blaine.

There were good reasons to build stadiums for the Twins (no suitable baseball facility) and the Gophers (no on-campus facility?!? In Big Ten country?!?).

No, the Vikings are doing just fine with the Dome. They've had the luxury box revenue for a long time.

Of course, they'll get one eventually. But while I supported public money for the Twins stadium, I am much less likely to do so for the Vikings unless someone can convince me why it's needed and what good it will do. The design unveiled last spring is hideous. They'll ruin the Metrodome plaza LRT stop by hiding an OUTDOOR sculpture indoors!

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 4:22 PM by David Highlight this comment 5

David – I know this is a Twins ballpark forum, but the Vikings DO need a new facility. Don't be offended, but you are so wrong I can't even begin to tell you the ways. It is probably nice being comfortably oblivious and naïve to the way professional sports works in the 21st century and the absolute need to build a new Vikings stadium in the next couple years. I am sure it is much easier in your mind to say: “the metrodome is perfectly good football facility blah, blah, blah, they have luxury boxes, blah, blah, blah so therefore we don’t need a new stadium at all” and simplistically leaving it at that. Let me explain:

First – I don’t care what you say the metrodome is horrible and has no atmosphere for football. Anyone who says otherwise is absolutely in the minority & possibly insane. Football should be played outdoors OR at the very least in a stadium with a retractable roof so the Vikings can use winter weather to their advantage (i.e. Metropolitan Stadium in the 1960’s/70’s).

Second - Every football stadium has luxury boxes. Big deal! What is your point? The caliber of the facility is what determines how much you can charge corporations to purchase them. The metrodome is one of the least attractive football venues in the league so therefore I am sure they are not able to maximize that existing revenue stream to the team’s full advantage from a free agent perspective or investing in other fan amenities.

Third – The retractable roof design & surrounding residential/commercial infill concept Zygi introduced is not as bad as you try to make it sound. Who cares if the Hiawatha & Central Corridor LRT stop is in an indoor winter garden or fully outdoors? It’s not like the stop would go away. Also, you do not choose to not build facilities because of outdoor scenic sculpture/landscaping less than 4 years old. It is not like they are priceless. While I would much rather see a true open-air football stadium built I have a feeling it will be something with a retractable roof. That way you solve the problem for people like you who can only think of the facility from an 8 games a year NFL perspective. A retractable roof option with environmental controls built in for when it is closed allows the facility to host a multitude of events far beyond your 8 game NFL theory. Within in a couple years of opening I can guarantee Minneapolis would be hosting the following in a 21st century retractable roof facility: Super Bowl, NCAA Men’s/Women’s Final Fours, a new Minneapolis MLS Soccer Team, a new Minneapolis MLL (Major League Lacrosse) outdoor lacrosse team, etc, etc.

That is why the public absolutely should participate with Zygi Wilf in building a new facility on the current Metrodome site. Unless you are content with mediocrity & languishing in a sub-standard facility all so you can save $5-10 bucks a year tops.

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 5:55 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 6

The vikings made their bed (the metrodump)...they can sleep in it until 2011 and move.

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 7:13 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 7

I agree with you Betaband, i also think the vikings should propose a roofless stadium, the cold works to our advantage and it knocks off $200 million.

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 8:07 PM by Jason Highlight this comment 8

Even though this is a baseball ballpark forum for the Twins...the Vikings situation is very intriguing as well.

The Metrodome has served its purpose and its time to move on. It only cost $65 million or so to build and it was paid off long ago. What's the big deal people? It's no different than the basic principal of buying a new car when you want a new one that is more efficient. (Yes we are talking at least a half-billion dollars and I realize that)

If I am correct, the RCA Dome in Indianapolis was built AFTER the Metrodome was built and the brand-new rectractable roof Lucas Oil Stadium is opening up next year. We are talking of the smallest markets in the NFL. Yes it helps when the Colts have been winning in recent years and you are also home of the NCAA.

Also, the Minnesota Vikings are dead last in the NFL in revenues. No way should the 14th largest NFL market be last in revenues, that's just my opinion. Yes, the Vikings own the suites, but it still depends on the quality of them that determines the asking price by corporations just as Betaband mentioned earlier.

My basic point is this...the Metrodome has served its purpose and is no longer a suitable venue for professional sports. It has been paid for and it's time to move on and keep up with the times. Minneapolis continues to get passed over in favor of better venues to host big-time events.

Zygi orginally wanted to build an outdoor venue, but it just makes no sense to build an outdoor venue for only 10 games each year. Which is why the rectractable roof is the way to go. You can add many more events each year.

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 8:13 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 9

Kevin in AZ – I can’t quite tell. So are you insinuating that the Vikings should move out of the Metrodome into a new facility in Minneapolis after 2011? Or are you trying to be the classic forum prick and suggesting they should move the franchise out of Minny altogether when there is so much history here? I ask because I think I may have seen your name on here before (I could be wrong) making some similar types of inflammatory comments regarding the Vikings. For the most part it appears the majority of us on this site are Minny sports fans first, so if you are just all about hating on the Vikings when they come up or just trying to pick fights by making stupid claims about moving the franchise you need to move onto another forum. Especially, coming from someone who lives in the same state (AZ) as the lamest franchise in NFL history - the Cardinals. If I am mistaken never mind and accept my apologies as obviously these comments should be directed at someone else.

Finally, I don't recall the Vikings being the ones specifically demanding that a poorly designed & cheaply built facility like the Metrodome be built, so I don't really think it is their bed to lie in as you stated.

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 10:33 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 10

Your youth and ignorance is showing betaband. The dome was Mike Lynn's child. Know something about a subject before you spout off about it. And for your info, this forum is about a baseball park, not a vikings stadium. You're off topic, not me.

Posted on October 23, 2007 at 11:23 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 11

the twins were very much pressured to go to the dome, it was a vikes effort to get that thing built. it's laughable that the twins get zero revenue from luxury boxes for THEIR games, i mean, please....

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 08:05 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 12

I agree, this is a Twins ballpark forum. Beteband, go to a Vikings forum please. I come here to read thoughts about the TWINS. I couldn't care less about the Vikings.

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 10:26 AM by John Highlight this comment 13

Kevin in AZ - Please son. You have no clue what my age so try to stay on subject. From your past comments it is obvious you are the ignorant one on this board and rather partisan. To pin an entire project the size of the Metrodome in its time that entailed moving 3 separately run teams (Twins, Vikings and Gophers) on Mike Lynn alone shows how naive you are.

Get off your pedestal buddy!

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 10:26 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 14

The story of the Metrodome has been documented over and over. The most recent book I've read on the subject is a truly fascinating study in the politics of it all, written long ago by our current senator, Amy Klobuchar. (Click my name to buy it for $2.64 plus shipping.)

The final chapter of the Dome is about to be written. I, for one, hope it ends in a controlled implosion (for which I would gladly push the plunger).

What's sad is that it's truly a marvel of engineering. Unfortunately, it's a marvel that never worked really well for any of its intended uses (except, perhaps, winter roller-skating).

Renovation plans have come and gone, and nothing I've ever seen would truly satisfy what the Vikings need. The site still remains a great place for a stadium, and I thought the concept drawings they showed earlier this year were imaginative and held great potential.

But let's keep one important thing in mind: The Vikings suck for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with revenue. They're unwatchable right now, and they'd be just as unwatchable in a new stadium of any sort.

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 11:45 AM by Rick 15

sorry john but betaband is right, this is a twins site but most twins fans are minnesota sports fans which includes the vikings, and rick you must not be watching AP because he alone is fun to watch but i agree with you on imploding the dome.

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 12:02 PM by Jason Highlight this comment 16

Yes, Jason, I agree that there are bright spots. Unfortunately, it's not been enough to keep me from snoozing through these Sunday afternoons...

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 12:14 PM by Rick 17

I worked at the State Legislature in the 1970's. I think I know who grandfathered the Metrodome.

Again, this is a Twins Ballpark forum. The Vikings will most likely be blacked out for much of the remainder of the season. Go to Duluth and watch them and allow us to please stay on topic.

Any news on the release of new schematics or are we waiting for the Nov. BPA meeting???

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 2:46 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 18


I'd like to contest one point: Zygi's new football stadium (and football stadiums in general) do very poorly at attracting other events. You bring up an MLS team - which shows you don't really follow MLS. By far the best, most popular, and most profitable teams are those with their own stadiums (excepting DC United). There's a reason for that - 25,000 people in a 25,000 seat stadium is a great atmosphere, but 25,000 in a 75,000 stadium is not - not to mention the usual issues about not controlling revenue that you see now with secondary tenants, which is the Dome's whole problem to begin with (at least from a financial perspective).

If an MLS team were to come to Minnesota, they'd be looking for their own stadium as well.

Do the Vikings need new digs? Probably. Is it worth the cost? Probably not. Such a stadium certainly isn't as attractive for adjacent development as a baseball stadium or an arena is. So, if that's the case, the public benefit seems to drop real fast relative to the quickly rising costs.

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 2:54 PM by Alex B Highlight this comment 19

The MLS wants its teams to have soccer specific stadiums like they've built in Columbus, Ohio and other MLS cities anyway. Soccer isn't going to be happening in a new football stadium.

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 4:11 PM by Tim Highlight this comment 20

Kevin in AZ - One last comment then I am done with you as this is getting really old, really fast. Just wanted to let you know that I am oh so happy to hear that you worked at the capitol 30+ years ago in some capacity and therefore you are an expert on all subjects and know everything about everything sports related that has happened in the state of Minnesota since that time. Because as we can see with some of your breathern over at MnDOT working in state government surely qualifies one to be an expert in whatever subject they choose so long as they have a government appointed title after their name. Please.

And if the Vikings do come up every once in a while in this forum don't worry about pal. Based on some responses there are obviously those who want to discuss the merits of a new Vikes stadium. You can just stay out of the discussion if it really bugs you so much.

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 4:38 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 21

Better yet, we could go to a forum that discusses that. I'm not above discussing it, I'm just trying to uphold the desires of the forum moderator. Rick is an avid Twins and ballpark fan. He created this site to discuss and share info on the construction of a MLB ballpark in Minnesota. We had another blog out there "Greet Machine" which was instrumental in getting the Twins legislation passed, but it became mucked up by Vikings fans slamming the Twins initiative. You're certainly welcome and intitled to your opinion, but if you say something incorrect, don't be so upset when someone corrects you. I would give you a detailed history of the Metrodome and how it all came about, but I don't want to do that on here as it is not topical. Link your name to an email address and I can even send you fun documents from Wendy Andersona and Al Quie regarding the legislation.

I wasn't there as a government employee. Only about half of the bodies at the capitol bldg work for the gov't, the rest of us were lobbyists.

The fact of the matter is Betaband, the Twins had nothing and continue to have nothing to do with the creation and existence of the Metrodome. Mike Lynn whined for years throughout the 70's that Metropolitan Stadium was too small and had horrible sightlines for football. He was correct on both accounts. So we built a football stadium. It was the Vikings' Mike Lynn that schmoozed Howard Fox into going along with the Metrodome. Howard Fox was working for Cal Griffith at the time. Calvin didn't want to move the Twins from Bloomington. Fox persuaded Griffith that the Twins would be more profitable in the dome due to no lost gate receipts. Griffith obliged and went public with his support of the dome, but those of us who knew better, knew this was the end to the Griffith ownership and maybe even the end of the Minnesota Twins altogether. It nearly happened in 1984 until Pohlad came in and saved the team.

Mr Lynn also schmoozed Paul Giel into moving the Gophers off campus into the dome with the stipulation that in 1984, if they didn't like it, they could break out of there and go back to Memorial Stadium. Once 1984 came along for Giel to make a decision, he was more concerned about keeping his job as his boss Ken Keller was about to lose his. So yes, I blame the Vikings and Mike Lynn for creating the mess that Minnesota has had to deal with for decades since the dome come into existence.

The Twins play in the corner of a football stadium...The plastic palace of noise and echos.

And quite the contrary Betaband, I still have Vikings season tickets - I have since 1967 so yes, I feel I have every right to criticize their asses when I see fit. This franchise has been a disgrace for so many years since Max Winter left. I blame Mike Lynn for the Metrodome and killing the Vikings as their identity died when they left the great outdoors. Will Zygi return it to glory? The jury is still out and what he did to Anoka County doesn't bode too well with having good relationships with local gov't officials. His best bet is to build an outdoor football-only facility in the middle of nowhere with ample parking for tailgating...Not the monstrosity he proposed for the East Loop of downtown. Perhaps the

Brookdale Mall property would work?? The old arsenal in Moundsview??

I don't know...but it's a question for an different forum.

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 5:48 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 22

Let me confirm that Kevin's account is accurate according to everything I've read.

In fact, after the Dome was completed and Griffith realized the crappy deal he'd received (despite the fact that some people thought the Twins got a sweet deal), he was quoted as saying that if there had been permanent stands all the way down the left field line at Met Stadium he never would have moved the team. The Gophers, as we know, have regretted their move off campus from the very first game (maybe before).

Let me confirm another thing in Kevin's message: This site was created for discussion of the new Twins ballpark. I don't mind minor diversions now and then, but after a point my eyes start to glaze over (as do those of some of the other visitors, I'm sure).

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 6:36 PM by Rick 23

I am only 25 years old, but was wondering is this Mike Lynn gentleman is still around or whatever happened to him after Minnesota? I never got the luxury of going to any games at the Met. My whole life has been going to the Metrodome for Twins, Vikings, and Gophers games. But I agree with the previous posts that this Mike Lynn gentleman sure seems to be the one main guys that wrecked sports in the Twin Cities. The rich-Vikings tradition seems to have disappeared with the Metrodome and so has the Gophers. It sure seems the Vikings have never been the same since those days in the 1960's and 1970's. They definitely should consider just building an outdoor stadium in the middle of a parking lot and bring back the real-tailgating experiences and outdoor football. There are plenty of places down in Rosemount or Lakeville as well as the northern suburbs I am sure.

The Twins had some glory years in 1987 and 1991, but the real glory years for the Twins were in the 1960's at Met Stadium with the likes of Killebrew, Allison, Oliva, Grant, and Versalles. Not to take anything away from Puckett and Hrbek along with the two world championships, but it will sure be nice to see the Twins outdoors again in 2010.

I realize a lot of things have changed in professional sports over the life of the Metrodome, most notably, the skyrocketing salaries and revenues. Professional sports have never been the same since the salaries began skyrocketing in the early 1990's. It's just not the same anymore...

Posted on October 24, 2007 at 11:18 PM by Jason Highlight this comment 24

kevin in az isn't it ironic though that the twins have won 2 world series championships to the vikings none in the dome? I also like your idea of a great outdoor stadium with tailgating for the vikes, i hope zigi does it.

Im Jason from before, but that Jason above my post i agree with you

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 01:59 AM by kdoko Highlight this comment 25

from Dave St. Peter's blog "The design of the left field Home Run Porch was revised as follows: 1.) Two additional sections of seats were added increasing overall outfield seating capacity; 2.) The seating section was revised into a “split” configuration – very similar to the Terrace Level seating sections found elsewhere in the ballpark." It looks like the left field pavilion upper deck will have one of those dumb "split decks". I personally hate that, it will look very out of place and runes what ever call back to the Met it had.

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 2:00 PM by pf 386 Highlight this comment 26

Based on the latest cross section that I've seen, I don't mind the split upper deck.

When cantileverd, the split deck should push the highest level of seats closer to the field. The split deck also creates an open concourse for the upper deck, similar to the lower level concourse. Less steep stairs could also mean less lines, especially after the game when fans are leaving. And for the Twins, it could create more revenue. The lowest part of the split upper deck essentially becomes the "club level" of the upper deck.

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 2:21 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 27

However I think have split deck in outfield will look very out of place AND take away what remaining ode to the Met there was.

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 2:31 PM by pf 386 Highlight this comment 28

Rick, You mentioned this.... Calvin Griffith was quoted as saying that if there had been permanent stands all the way down the left field line at Met Stadium he never would have moved the team.
Most of us know the Met was built in 1956 for the Millers and to attract a Major League team. The plan was to expand the park if they landed one. The original triple deck sounding the infield was expanded shortly after the Twins arrived with a double deck grandstand extending from first base to the right field corner. Why was it they never got around to doing the same down the left field line? I'm surprised the bleacher section that ran from 3rd base to the left corner never collapsed. It was song rinky dink. Was there much discussion over the years to do extend the grandstand in left? What were the main sticking points for never getting it done?

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 3:51 PM by John Highlight this comment 29

After that extension was built down the first base line, all of the improvements to the Met were made for football, not baseball. Calvin wasn't willing to pay for improvements, and didn't have the persuasive skills necessary to get someone else to pay (unlike the aforementioned Mike Lynn).

Added to that was the notion that if the stadium fell apart, it would be obvious to everyone that a new one was necessary. So maintenance on the Met fell to near nothing (which is why the top deck rusted severely and was eventually closed permanently).

The story of the Met is a sad one on so many levels. With just a little more vision, a little more persuasiveness, and a little more money, it might have become a classic a la Dodger Stadium or at least a serviceable elder like Anahaim Stadium.

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 4:02 PM by Rick 30

It sounds like most of the changes that Dave is talking about in the blog are reflected in the pics that were found/posted earlier from the State Fair.

Any opinions? I'm a little nervous about him mentioning th plaza-style seats in right went to straight seats. Maybe I'll feel better when I see a picture.

Can't wait for the model/pics to be shown on the 30th. Rick you will be there, right??

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 5:07 PM by Excited Highlight this comment 31

Here's an interesting story on Coors Field and LoDo in Denver. Click on my name for link.

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 5:29 PM by John Highlight this comment 32

Does anyone know if there will be any "bleachers" in the left field homerun porch or traditional ballpark seats? Bleachers would definitely add a little more fun that Minnesotan's have not had in the Metrodome.

Also, If the Twins added two additional sections of seats in left field, wouldn't you think that would add to the initial capacity of 40,000? I was thinking those two additional sections would have increased the capacity by at least 1,000 unless the "split-deck" took away from increasing the capacity?

It's just nice to know we will FINALLY be able to see some of the finalized renderings. It's been a long time awaiting! The "stunning model" should be fun to see as well.

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 6:44 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 33

Luke, I've been wondering the same thing for many months. I'm sure we'll know more after the actual model is presented.

Posted on October 25, 2007 at 7:42 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 34

You can actually see the model now. It is located on the 46th floor of the Multi-foods tower (the big pink salmon loaf of a building).

It is in a glass office that you can't gain entry to, but the model is easily viewable through the glass.

Posted on October 26, 2007 at 07:30 AM by Freealonzo Highlight this comment 35

So how's it look? Did you take any pictures of it?

Posted on October 26, 2007 at 11:44 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 36

Did anyone else see the picture of the stadium that was up on Greet Machine the other day, and than went away?

Posted on October 26, 2007 at 2:06 PM by RJBenny Highlight this comment 37

The Nationals Ballpark is coming along very nicely. They now have an updated camera view of the interior of the ballpark. Click the link and check out the progress. That will be very similar (hopefully) of what we will be seeing in Minneapolis in just two years as we approach Opening Day 2010!

Posted on October 29, 2007 at 2:41 PM by Luke Highlight this comment 38

Check it out.

Posted on October 29, 2007 at 5:40 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 39


Are you going to the ballpark deal tomorrow? If so, please take pics and post them. THANKS!!!

Posted on October 29, 2007 at 10:12 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 40


Are you going to the ballpark deal tomorrow? If so, please take pics and post them. THANKS!!!

Posted on October 29, 2007 at 10:12 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 41

wow. that looks really really cool.

Posted on October 29, 2007 at 10:55 PM by mike in northeast Highlight this comment 42

Lafferty - Is this something you put together on your own or is it an actual rendering Hennepin County/Twins/HOK will release on 10/30? Either way it looks great. Thanks for the link.

Posted on October 29, 2007 at 11:12 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 43

Yes, I will be there tomorrow for the unveiling.

If you haven't already, be sure to look at that new image on Greet Machine. Absolutely spectacular!

I will analyze the new design in this space tomorrow night.

Posted on October 30, 2007 at 12:10 AM by Rick 44

oh yea, now that's a nice image, liking it, thanks for linking to that, i needed a fix.

Posted on October 30, 2007 at 08:20 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 45

How are they going to get all those trees to grow on a platform?

Posted on November 1, 2007 at 10:23 PM by pharmon Highlight this comment 46

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"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

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Pesky Reality

The alumni band sounded great.

This is a closer look at the steel work.

Looking through it, you can see the outfield pavilion (upper deck at least).

The walkway under construction in the parking lot just outside the loading dock.

Cross section diagram of the field structure. (Click to enlarge.)

This is where the plaza meets First Avenue

Construction of the stands is moving from left to right in this image.

Working on the main concourse right about directly behind the plate.

(Click to enlarge.)

Still some work to be done on the canopy.

Guerrier had tossed a ball to a fan wearing a Twins jersey, who dropped it. If you're going to wear the uniform, he was saying, you gotta make the play. The ball ultimately went to a fan wearing a Randy Moss jersey, and everybody laughed.

Many people will approace the park from this direction and it's a pretty great first glimpse. It features all the design elements in modestly condensed form, and still manages to look like a ballpark (instead of something else).

Notice that the wooden-backed club seats are now covered by a green tarp for protection from the elements.

They help create a psychological safe area along the plaza edge, and help you forget that cars are zipping by directly beneath you.

In March, we were still only imagining baseball through those windows.

Quote wall

Staircase view

Today's match-up (click to enlarge)

Grid for the ironwood louvres is in place

No griping here.

July 7, 1966 (Click to see the entire scorecard with ads)

Wrigley Field. Paradise? Not from these seats.

A last look on the way out.

The completed promenade

This gate opens onto Seventh Street from the circulation ramps, but it appears to actually be an entrance gate, rather than an exit gate. It has something of a Bat Cave feel about it because it's not a gate proper, but an area of louvers that will swing in, virtually disappearing when closed...

I finally found the corner of TF dedicated to the Senators. What a wonderful sight.

Locations for ticket machines near the Hrbek outdoor plaza


BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis


First Edition (1992)

Second Edition (2006)


Selected Bibliography - Surveys


Second Edition (1987)

Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title

(2000, large coffee table)

Original edition (2000, round)

Revised edition (2006, round)

(2001, medium coffee table)

(2002, small coffee table)

(2003, medium coffee table)

(2004, very large coffee table)

(2006, very large coffee table)

Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia


Book and six ballpark miniatures

Complete Bibliography

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