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So Long, Yankee Stadium (Updated, Again)

October 18, 2008 2:43 AM

Let's move from the lamented loss of one old ballpark to the seemingly unlamented loss of another.


Nothing said here can add to or take away from the legacy and mystique of Yankee Stadium. In fact, until a couple of weeks ago my only experience of The Stadium had been through TV and books.

That has now changed.


You see, as the summer ticked by, I realized that I didn't want to miss the chance to see first-hand a legendary baseball place. That turned out to be a great decision (see sidebar for some MasterCard-style trip details). Now I can at least offer some informed observations at the most significant ballpark closure in recent memory.

My expectations weren't unusually high. I've visited many ballparks and, even though I read up on the history of each one before going, I'm always a little surprised by what I find. Most reviewers tend to miss the things that interest me, and getting a feel for a place is a personal experience anyway -- unique to each fan. That fact has led me to almost totally disregard other reviews, other than for logistical details which can come in handy.

So even though people always talk about Yankee Stadium as a "baseball cathedral" that is "full of ghosts," I didn't go there expecting to find any. I was intrigued that many players have spoken about being intimidated by the structure itself at first, then by the history, then by the fans. I was also keenly aware that the place's reputation is intertwined with that incessant song: "If I can make it there..."

Here are some quick observations, then we'll dig in a little bit deeper.

Observation #1: It's Just a Ballpark

What struck me first was how unremarkable it all was (reputation and invisible history aside). Far from a cathedral, it felt like a working ballpark -- a place where baseball is played and enjoyed. Nobody was speaking in hushed tones or bowing down to the baseball gods before entering their assigned seat. These may be hallowed grounds, but most of the people I saw were just out for a good time.

People left their empties under their seats. Some got a little bit drunk -- most did not. The food was routine (Centerplate is the vendor, same as the Metrodome). Every now and then the faint smell of piss wafted over our section.

Observation #2: It's Tired

I don't know why, but I sort of expected everything to be a little more updated and a little bit better maintained.


The famous blue of the seats is pretty faded when viewed up close. There is plenty of rust (though not nearly as much as I saw over at Shea), and it can be almost impossible to read the section, row, and seat signs.

A season ticket holder sitting behind me was telling his group about how he's been helping people find their seats for years. The numbering is confusing, the doorways don't line up exactly with the sections they claim to, and the seat numbers in the boxes use an antiquated numbering system which could easily lead a first-time visitor astray.

The concourses were tiny (photos later in this article), and not especially posh. There is lots of cement, and a feeling even more cramped than the Metrodome.

The scoreboards are clearly old technology, maybe not quite as old as the Metrodome, but close. There was, for example, a slightly updated clapping hands graphic, but it was still monochrome and "animated" only in the technical sense.

Observation #3: It's Big

Getting off the subway, the ballpark is almost invisible because of its sheer size. There is no buffer zone around it, so sidewalks rub right up against the gigantic walls. My first impression was this:


That is the gun-metal gray wall of The Stadium just beyond the elevated tracks.

I quickly realized that if I was going to get any interesting pictures at all, I'd have to walk away from the park and look back at it. So I did just that, getting as far as two blocks away at several points before I could get anything interesting. A lot of New York is like that, right?


From about two blocks away you can finally get an idea of what it looks like. Just to my left (but out of view) was a valet parking stand where a limo was idling.

I've noticed a homogenization in the game as marketing strategies and techniques which succeed in one place get copied to all the rest. This was on full display.

The activity in and around the park felt a lot like the activity in and around any ballpark before a game. There were vendors, scalpers, throngs of well-behaved fans, even announcements coming from loudspeakers that were essentially interchangeable with those you hear outside the Metrodome (though the voice, as you might expect, was significantly more dignified).

Knowing that security wouldn't let me in with my duffel bag, I checked it at Ball Park Lanes for $5 before heading out into the crowd. Actually, I officially joined the stadium crowd when I got onto the jam-packed #4 subway -- another surprising similarity with the Metrodome.


Bag checking at Ball Park Lanes was incredibly simple, as was the pick up later. The line was short and fast-moving.

A Bustling Scene, A Powerful Identity

As I emerged from the subway a full two hours before game time, I was a little bit shocked to see how large the crowd was already around the stadium. There was lots of commerce on display, but also a fair amount of just plain sight-seeing and soaking up the atmosphere. This is one of the great benefits of having your stadium in the same place for so long: the neighborhood has adapted to support it.

Though the crowd would be seeing one of the very last games ever at The Stadium, there was no sense of impending doom or even a whiff of melancholy. There was also only the tiniest visible interest in the new ballpark, which already looms large next door.


Mussina's first pitch. (Playing 3rd: Not A-Rod)

I walked all the way around the new park, snapping a ton of pictures, but I was literally the only person doing so. On the south edge a few people had wandered across the street to peer through the construction fence, but I have to admit that I expected to see many more curious fans.

The new stadium -- and by implication the disappearance of the old stadium -- seemed to be a complete non-issue. Even after I'd been sitting among the fans in the upper deck for three hours, I got no sense of excitement about it, and barely even any interest. How could this be?

Do They Care? Oh, I Get It Now

Though Tiger Stadium may have been older, there has arguably never been another stadium so closely linked to a team's identity than Yankee Stadium. Yet there have been only muted objections to its demise and replacement.

In fact, until just a few days before the final game, there wasn't even an organization in existence called "Save Yankee Stadium." Given its storied history, you'd think there would be at least somebody who cared enough to want it saved.

At least that's what I thought before I went there. Gaining the first-hand experience was an eye-opener. I can't say that I was disappointed, but I was a little underwhelmed.

Ever since returning I've been sort of obsessed with Yankee Stadium, mostly in an attempt to understand what it has that has made it such an icon, and what it lacks that makes people content to see it go. The answers weren't what I expected.


The New as viewed from The Old.

Why An Icon?

Well, reason number one seems a little obvious:


There's no question that so much winning cannot help but fill a place with a sense of Destiny. It wallpapers over the fact that, during plenty of periods in their history when the economics were not so overwhelmingly in their favor, the Yankees have stunk up that place. They sure did the day I was there!

Reason number two has to be that the place is just plain beautiful. Not the outside -- which is pretty ugly in many ways (more about that in the next section).

But the inside, just like a beautiful face, is close enough to symmetrical that it seems perfect at first glance, and far enough from symmetrical to remain interesting upon closer inspection (see: Angelina Jolie). This owes a lot to the original configuration, which is still visible in plain sight, though the field no longer follows its contours.


Given that the original plans were to eventually enclose the entire outfield, it's sure odd that the area of the playing field should be so lopsided toward left. Perhaps that was to accommodate football or some other anticipated activity. But it brings the overall configuration very close to the golden ratio -- that magical formula which allows humans to perceive something as perfectly balanced (not unlike a 3-2 count -- which is also very close).


A detailed crowd shot. Click to enlarge greatly.

Reason number three definitely has to do with knowledgeable and passionate fans. They sit and watch the game. They know the players. They talk baseball. They have an attitude. They do not do the wave.

The people who have inhabited Yankee Stadium -- both on the field and in the stands -- have made it something of the ultimate Great Baseball Place.

You can also make a case for the ghosts, and the many other memorable events (beside the sheer winning), but those seem somewhat peripheral to a first-hand observer.

Why Let It Go?

First and foremost, though it occupies the same patch of land, it is not your grandfather's Yankee Stadium.


Those little oval additions are positively laughable!

The Big Renovation managed to turn a steel-and-concrete classic (which was in pretty bad shape) into a nondescript 1970s monstrosity. My biggest surprise was that it never felt like a ballpark from a bygone era (unlike Wrigley and Fenway). It felt a lot like Kauffman and some of the concrete donuts.

In other words, it felt much more like a 30-year-old utilitarian concrete stadium, not an 85-year-old steel-and-concrete classic.

This is immediately noticeable when you walk around the outside. Despite its very familiar appearance, I was struck by how terrible the painted brick and "windows" appeared. A simple round of sandblasting could have restored much of the original appearance at much less cost than building a replacement!


Row indicators are spray-painted with stencils over rust and peeling paint.

The rounded additions just scream shag carpeting (which probably runs up the walls and onto the ceilings). You have to imagine that everything inside is avocado green and burnt orange! They really break the sense that this is a ballpark from the classic era.

In addition, the seats are all faded and rusty -- and not in a good way like at Fenway (where they at least get a coat of paint every now and then). Here the paint was peeling.

My second biggest surprise was that the whole park felt so tired. It felt kind of like well-worn shoes with just enough scuff marks that you wonder if they're really worth polishing again.

I came away not so surprised that the team might want to replace it, and not so surprised that the fans might be willing to let it go. It has served its purpose, and it's time to move on. New Yorkers do that type of thing better than anybody. Sentiment, OK to a degree. But practicality (and finance) will always win out.

That may actually explain why only the smallest fringe element ever cared enough to want to save it.

But Replace It?

So the new pad will be a step up from what they've known for a while, right?

Not so fast.

The facade is an homage to (not a reproduction of) the original. It's close enough to give a feel for the old, but makes some key additions in the name of grandeur. It's forgivable, but I bristle at such hyperbole in the publicity. The facade is in no way a copy or faithful reproduction of the original. It's just kind of a riff on it. The notes are pretty close, but the tune isn't quite the same.


Actually, I think the facade for New Yankee Stadium has a soulless quality which immediately brings to mind the New Comiskey. I would love to figure out why, but new construction just cannot match the appearance of those old window openings. They always come off as looking fake. Here's a quick comparison:


The seating bowl will lose a fair amount of its height, something that many opposing players cite as the most intimidating part of the old stadium; many have said they felt like the fans were right on top of them.

The loss of the highest rows would be OK, but for the fact that the upper deck is actually moved back from the field to accommodate -- you guessed it -- luxury suites (see diagram). Again, this is a modern amenity and common to every park. But the upper deck fans will likely have a much different experience.


Red is old Yankee Stadium. This diagram comes from

The shape of the playing field in fair territory is identical to the old, but the foul territory changes dramatically. The following diagrams are from

Just eye-balling it, I'd say the new park will be a bit more friendly to pitchers. There will be less put-outs right behind the plate, but that loss will be more than made up by additional catches down the lines.


These two sections are within a few feet of one another.

And I was shocked to see in the 3D seat selector that the bleacher seats have no backs!

I know this may be traditional, but if you're going to make upgrades everywhere else, why not there? A bunch of seats in the main grandstand lower deck will actually be getting cushions, for goodness sake! But the cheap seats remain numbingly uncomfortable?

The concourses will bear no relation to the original stadium, which is understandable. In the original, they were decidedly cramped and dingy. But some of that will be missed, because it gave the place a warmth (unlike, say, the cramped concourses of the Metrodome, which I would hazard to guess are actually much larger than those at the old Yankee Stadium).

Here are typical views from the four levels in the original Yankee Stadium (from lowest to highest):


Directly above the ceiling here is the hidden concourse which served the upper deck prior to the renovation. That concourse was closed off to the public, but became a service level for ballpark employees. It's one of the many quirks which will be lost when the wrecking ball takes the place away.


This concourse, the uppermost, was built on top of the now-hidden old concourse during the 70s renovation.

Though it is tempting, it isn't really fair to compare the new Yankee Stadium to the old -- just as it isn't really fair to compare the original to the renovated version. These must be considered three different stadiums.


Our cantilever friends will be happy to learn that there will be sections with views like this in the new stadium.


The new version going up across the street could turn out to be a great ballpark, but I'm not optimistic. Even setting aside my bias as a Twins fan, there are some obvious things that it will have working against it:

1. It's huge. The old stadium was tall but not wide. The upper decks were essentially stacked on top of the lower deck. This made it feel bigger -- like it was looming over the playing field ( a source of much intimidation of visiting teams). The new one is expansive and much wider, and there is no stacking of decks whatsoever. It is thus not nearly as imposing. While the old one leans forward like a vulture hovering over its prey, the new one leans back on its elbow -- a little over-confident, if you ask me.


2. It's a mall. Despite what is said about the concourses, the place is set up like the ultimate baseball mall. I suspect that its interior will feel much more like Miller Park or even the Mall of America -- spacious but heavily merchandised and movement-controlled. You will likely find yourself shopping much more, and maybe wonder why.

3. All vestiges of the old days are gone.
Like most newer parks, there is a clear delineation between the moneyed and the rabble. From a revenue standpoint, it makes some sense. You don't want some half-drunk to sneak into the good seats and disturb all the baseball-themed entertainment being witnessed. But that approach can have a very detrimental effect on the fans. I think the Twins could face something similar, though their ballpark doesn't quite take it to New Yankee Stadium extremes.

4. It's not where it should be.
I know it's only across the street, but there's something just wrong about abandoning such a storied patch of land. Even the least sentimental fan will probably feel a small twinge when they see the vacant lot (and eventually softball fields) where The Stadium used to be.


Maybe the question should be: Which of the three things I listed above as iconic will transfer to the new ballpark?

1. The winning? They can take all their banners, but they haven't won anything in their new park yet.

2. The beauty? I'm sorry to say that the new park, with a much more symmetrical layout, does not retain the quirky golden ratio. It is simply not as beautiful.

3. The fans? Tough call. Some will certainly transfer, but I heard much in the conversations around me to suggest that not all will. Prices will continue to shoot upward, and there were people around me in the upper deck who clearly felt they were going to be priced out.


For some inexplicable reason, a lot of the new parks being built these days feature grand staircases like this one.

Weighing all I have learned, despite the newness, they Yankees are trading a fair amount of mystique for new revenues. The net may look good on the balance sheet, but at the expense of some purity. Much like the 1970's-era renovation of the original, I think there will be a long debate over whether this change actually constitutes an upgrade.

Does that matter in the long term? Time will tell.


Despite what those signs say, every one of these places was selling either snacks or Yankee memorabilia out of its front door. Do you suppose anything like this will spring up anywhere near the new Twins ballpark?


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It is disappointing that the 2nd webcam doesn't show the outfield better. However, it is much closer to the action, and you get much better resolution that the 1st webcam. If only they could move webcam 1 to the roof of Target Center.

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 07:46 AM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 1

Old Yankee Stadium doesn't compare at all with Fenway or Wrigley. The Red Sox and Cubs have done awesome jobs updating and adding on to their venues without destroying the charm and history of the parks. There's not much else to expect from the Yankees - it will be an homage to the almighty dollar, not a charming tribute to baseball history.

Also, I'm interested to see how the new Yankee Stadium will be attended once the inaugural season is over...will the prices affect attendance?

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 09:50 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 2

Thanks Rick. I'd always heard the the 70's remodel of Yankee Stadium just ruined I can see why folks aren't getting too weepy. It just makes me cringe that the new stadium is going to look like some Donald Trump monstrosity....or, appropriately, a gargantuan bank building.

It makes me feel lucky for what the Twins are getting...which is a ballpark that has all of the best features of past parks but is forward looking. Its going to be an amazing place to see a game.

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 10:01 AM by Dale Highlight this comment 3

Rick - a great summary of why OYS (Old Yankee Stadium) isn't as revered as Wrigley/Fenway. While it may have been crumbling in the early '70's, the renovation, if done today, could have saved the building (like what is happening to Wrigley/Fenway), rather than destroyed it...

As to NYS (New Yankee Stadium), attendance may be an issue, but I've discovered an amazing statistic: those $2500 seats you may have heard about? There are 250 of them. If the Yanks sell them out, they will generate $50 million in revenue every year! Not only that, but there are 2,000 additional seats that cost $500-$1500 a game, and those can be counted on to add approximately $150 million in revenue every year! Now, remember that the new park will have about 52,300 seats, and you note that there will still be 50,000 seats available (not including those I just mentioned generating $200 mil a year) that, for the most part, will be less than $100 a game!

The economey will be interesting, but if it stabalizes, NYS could be a license to print money. You thought a $200 mil payroll was tough to compete against? Try getting free-agents now...


Posted on October 14, 2008 at 10:11 AM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 4

$2500.00 dollars for a seat behind home plate at a baseball game is simply insane. I've sat at games behind home plate at many stadiums (sneaking into them) IMO there are much better seats to see a ballgame than behind home plate. In Wrigley Field, I prefer to sit in the terrance level (the first 7 rows of the upper deck) than in the seats below. A much better view. Of course this may not be other peoples choice. Bu catering to the rich is sad. That's an awful lot of paper route money. Where is it gonna stop? Disgusting.

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 11:25 AM by JohnF Highlight this comment 5

Man, it sucks to compete against an owner willing to spend any amount to win...when your owner is the richest in professional sports and runs a talent farm. But hey - our stadium will be unique and WAY more cool!

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 11:26 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 6

Moose brings up some good points. The Evil Empire could become very scary with that kind of revenue.

At least the Twins will finally make some profits in 2010 with concessions, and suites/club level tickets.

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 11:51 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 7

It will all backfire in the long run and pro sports will crumble, as with our economy the way it is the sports teams have made no secret about the fact they will bleed the fan for all we have. Eventually the corps. That the suites will not be able to renew them, the fans with season tickets will not be able to renew them either... then comes the sports market crash... 1/3 full stadiums in the playoffs and then they will be begging for the regular fan to come back with his dollar...

In the mean time the regular fan invested 1500.oo in a 5o inch plasma and watches the games quite nicely....

I had the opportunity to go the the vikes lions game for free this Sunday but turned it down, I went to my bar and grill who has two for ones during the game and free chili cheese dog guy there had his tickets in his hand showing them off saying anyone could have them if they wanted too...I spent 13.86 on 4 hours of drinking beers watching hd football and stuffing my face with food all this with others like me.. not stiff corp types who don’t care about the game going on.
Point being that game would have been free for me to go to... 50 for parking, 7 for a beer (times 5) and then I wand a hot dog or whatever... It’s just not worth it.

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 12:59 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 8

I think Vikings football at home in HD is actually a whole lot better than being at the Metrodome. I get to see a lot more of the action (what there is of it at any recent Vikings game) than I would see from my nosebleed seats at the dome. Plus no obnoxious drunks (other than myself).

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 1:28 PM by luckylager Highlight this comment 9

In case anyone missed it...the Twins issued a Press Release today (click link) regarding the "new Target Field Webcam"...

While its nothing new to most of us on this site, its interesting that they do plan on moving the camera around in different locations as the stadium construction progresses and the views change from atop the Ford Centre.

Posted on October 14, 2008 at 9:52 PM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 10

La Velle E Neal III gave a little construction update of Target Field today on his blog. (click link)

Installation of the seats will begin around the first of the year and the playing field must be installed by August to allow rooting of the grass before the fall.

It should be very exciting to watch over the next few months!

Posted on October 15, 2008 at 2:22 PM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 11

from the blog:

"There’s a terrace that’s a stone’s throw from the incinerator - and we didn’t smell a thing."

i am glad he threw that in there. hopefully some of the skeptics (if they even read anything about the ballpark) will see that and be quieted.

Posted on October 15, 2008 at 3:15 PM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 12

Man, La Velle E Neal told us more in his blog today than DSP has in the past 3 months on his. Thanks for writing on the park!!! We love the updates!

Posted on October 15, 2008 at 3:16 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 13

I'm surprised I'm the first to write this. I see stadia in right field, my $10 seats.

Posted on October 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 14

Looks like the risers for the "view" level are underway along the right field. Webcam 2 has a better view of the one riser already up, and the posts for the next few.

Posted on October 15, 2008 at 4:22 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 15


Posted on October 15, 2008 at 4:32 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 16

I hope you guys aren't surprised by the Delmon trade talks already. The Giants will give us a couple more Liriano/Nathan-type prospects for him. Good trade...see ya Delmon. You don't play Twins-style baseball. We actually like guys who talk to their teammates in the lockerroom and hustle to firstbase. Nothing personal...adios.
"C'mon Locker...sheesh...let's keep this blog ballpark related."
Sorry Fellas, my inner (butthole) something was taking to me.

Posted on October 15, 2008 at 5:01 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 17

I am wondering how the clubhouse will look like for the Twins since i read the Strib article saying that it will be four times larger than the Dome clubhouse. Hopefully they will release some renderings as mentioned before of the clubhouse and interiors of the ballpark.

Posted on October 15, 2008 at 9:27 PM by NewGuy Highlight this comment 18

StarTribune has a short video tour of the ballpark construction site led by DSP.

Posted on October 15, 2008 at 10:57 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 19

Great updates guys, the seating bowl is what I've been waiting for!!

I'm also excited to read Sid's column regarding the possibility of the Vikes sharing TCF Bank Stadium with the Gophers. I'll be the Vikings would fork over the dough to fund the expansion to 80,000 seats. I love the idea because this puts the Vikings outside WHERE THEY BELONG! I know some of you youngsters disagree with me. Sorry but just like baseball, football was meant to be played in the elements whether they are beautiful ones or trecherous ones.

My only worry is if the Vikings continue with this direction of BORING us fans into a sleep, they'll have trouble selling out 80,000 seats.

So, get Wilf, Bruiniks, Dean Johnson together to draft the agreement, Vikings sign a check for the expansion which they can start on immediately, get the Vikings out from under that dump with an umbrella by 2010 and we can all meet at the Metrodome to celebrate it's implosion. Fire Childress, offer the kitchen sink to Bill Cowher to be the coach and hopefully blackouts will be avoided.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 01:50 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 20

The entrance that is behind home plate is being built out now as well. Last night I noticed the steel frame had been put into place and they were beginning to build up around it - The construction looked very similar to the steel buildout of the glass enclosed area that will be overlooking the plaza...

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 09:49 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 21

Kevin I definitely hope that happens, would love to see the Vikes outdoors again (since I have never seen it) but would the vikes generate enough revenue to stay there and not leave town? That's my only concern.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 11:23 AM by Matt Highlight this comment 22

While I like the idea of playing NFL football outdoors again in Minnesota, I just don't know if this plan would be feasible for the corporate giant in which the NFL has become.

It would work for a year or two while a new stadium is built, but I just don't think TCF Bank Stadium would be able to provide the revenue streams that a new NFL stadium would provide.

No naming rights revenue, no parking revenue, ticket revenues would decrease.

As sad as it is, everything is now about money rather than the simple enjoyment of the game. As long as fans continue to pay and the owners continue to get wealthier, nothing will change in my opinion.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 1:08 PM by Craig - Plymouth Highlight this comment 23

I forgot to add that in today's Tampa Tribune, it was announced that Super Bowl tickets have reached a face value of $1000.00 for the first time ever.

It really makes you wonder how high is too high? Several teams are already struggling to sell tickets and blackouts have been discussed in several NFL cities. Eventually the NFL (and other leagues) will need to look at the market and do something about it.

I heard something about Bud Selig telling MLB owners to watch the prices for the next few years? Not sure if its true or not, but it makes you wonder what is next for the sports industry and when/if prices/revenues will ever top out?

Twins fans should be very grateful that they have kept tickets very affordable, and most importantly, will continue to keep tickets affordable when moving into Target Field in 2010.

Yes, MLB is not the NFL or NBA, but it really makes you wonder what is next for these leagues as far as economics are concerned. The NBA is the most ridiculous as far as ticket prices are concerned.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 3:05 PM by Craig - Plymouth Highlight this comment 24

Vikings - please stay far, far away from TCF Bank Stadium.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM by B Highlight this comment 25

From a purist standpoint, an NFL team in a Big Ten Football stadium ruins everything. They bring in the skyboxes, the obnoxious advertising, gimicky contests, and soon instead of a marching band on sunny fall Saturdays you're hearing Pump Up The Jam by technotronic as Goldy runs out with the team.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 3:15 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 26

Stadia has started in the view section along the first base line. First one went up today.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 4:22 PM by MOJO Highlight this comment 27

Why would the Vikings need 80,000 seats? Didn't they have trouble selling the 60k seats they have in the Dome last year? I am a U alumnus and am buying season tickets for the Gophers at TCF next year and it would be a shame if the Vikings moved in there and ruined the place. I want a full stadium and the atmosphere that comes with it during the Gopher games, not another Metrodome where there are too many empty seats (80k is way too many, at least for now). I wouldn't mind the Vikings being there for a couple seasons while their new dig gets built but I do NOT want them there permanently.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 5:16 PM by Robert Highlight this comment 28

Getting back to the ballpark. I am wondering if there going to be pictures of the structure going up by the homeplate entrance since it is being blocked in the webcam shot partially. I am also wonder if DSP will update his blog soon, since the one currently is getting old. The 2nd webcam will be worthless when they complete the structure in front of it, and it a shame that there is no way to pan to the centerfield with 2nd webcam.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 9:54 PM by NewGuy Highlight this comment 29

The Vikings moving into the Gophers stadium? Why not move the Twins in too, and throw a roof over it. It'd be a lot cheaper. Multi-purpose stadiums, the wave of the future!

But seriously, this shouldn't happen. And it won't.

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 10:22 PM by haasertime Highlight this comment 30

Agreed. The U will never drink that Kool-Aid. They would regret it immediately and for a very long time...

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 10:26 PM by Rick 31

MOJO, you're a little late. It went up yesterday. But still exciting no less! And I agree Robert, the Queens in TCF Stadium only for a couple of years max. But it would be nice to NOT see them back indoors in a new place (or refurbished one).

Posted on October 16, 2008 at 10:27 PM by chuck in ak Highlight this comment 32

New yankees stadium will never be like the old. 460 feet heheheh who makes A distance like that in A stadium anymore. Naw people are more worried about home run count than the art of A well placed hit. Ahh since it was mentioned I have to comment. Yeppers I have seen a vikings game outdoors at the old met I know what its like still have the game program for the last game I went to as well. I will say but this people now days are to used to sitting inside a nice warm place too used to it to sit outdoors. Remeber lots of people who buy tickets these days are alot younger. If the vikes have to use the gophers stadium for A time till they get things built thats ok. But the vikes need there own place just like the twins and the gophers. Sharing things just creates to many problems you all know what I mean. It would be nice to have things the way it used to be like big areas for tailgaiting and such but I guess thats not the way it is today. There are days when I hate time moving forward but I guess we have to live with it like it or not. Yess I hate progress by the way. Well lets see how much fun you can have with this.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 01:24 AM by Leroy Highlight this comment 33

did someone say tailgatign???? lol

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 07:45 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 34


Has anyone in the Twins organization said anything about including the the history of the franchise from 1901-1960 in the museum or the ballpark? The Twins in reality are a 107 year old franchise and not an expansion team that was plunked into the Met in 1961. Baseball Almanac does a good job of detailing the complete history of the franchise (see link) and not just the Minnesota portion as detailed on the Twins website. I think it would be good for the fans to know the entire history of the Twins. 2014 is the 90th anniversary of the first World Series title and the Washington/Minnesota franchise does own six American League Pennats. The franchise has a total of seven players whose primary team was Washington/Minnesota in the Hall of Fame. I think it would be a great way for the Twins to honor their proud history to include the complete history of the franchise and not just the last 50 years or so.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 08:34 AM by Mo Highlight this comment 35

it seems like the nationals claimed that as they have the retired numbers of players like walter johnson. i find it disturbing how many twins fans no nothing of the origins of the team. this franchise was one of the first when it was in washington.

"first in war, first in peace, and last in the american league"

good thing they have a national league team now...oh wait...

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 09:06 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 36

The Nats have indeed tried to lay claim to Washington's baseball history (despite the fact that it's owned by two other franchises - another reason they went with the Nationals moniker was because the Rangers still own 'Senators'), and they've so far ignored the Expos history. Which is too bad. You do see a lot of caps from other teams at Nats Park, almost by default (lots of people in DC are not from DC), but I do love seeing a few random Expos caps.

Anyway, there's more than enough history for the Twins to cover since 1961. They should acknowledge the rest, but no need to put it front and center. That's not who this team is.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 11:08 AM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 37

Let Washington claim their history, I wish the Wild could claim our North Stars history and the T-Wolves claim our Lakers history but its just not going to happen, which sucks.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 12:36 PM by Matt Highlight this comment 38

There has obviously been significant progress over the last few weeks. It would be nice if the Twins or ballpark authority would provide some updated pictures of the interior concourses, concession areas, dugout/clubhouse area, etc. Even the stadia on the view level is going up quickly.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 12:53 PM by Mike B. - Burnsville Highlight this comment 39


I did ask that question early on and got a somewhat muted response from the team (no commitment one way or the other). To my mind, it's the franchise history that is relevant, and the franchise goes back all the way to the founding of the American League in 1901.

But history seems to stick to the geography more than it does the business entity. That's why the fans in Washington get a little bit indignant at the thought of a Minnesota team laying claim to a guy like Walter Johnson, who never played even a single game in Minnesota.

Those fans also feel like they were abandoned -- twice -- by franchises that they loved. You may recall that the move from Washington was somewhat acrimonious. The issue does kind of open some old wounds.

It has always seemed just plain wrong that Walter Johnson and the other players who became Hall-of-Famers with the Senators/Twins franchise aren't honored in a ballpark somewhere. I guess some of that may have been resolved in the new Nats park (though I admit that I don't know much about what they've done on that subject).

Still, the franchise as it exists now was shaped by those Washington years (like it or not). On balance, it seems like the Washington years need to be acknowledged, but without trying to take too much ownership. That's a tough line to walk.

I'm sure we'll hear more from the team on this subject before our new park opens.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 1:02 PM by Rick 40

Mike and all,

I've had an insanely busy week, and car troubles to boot. I'll try and get some pix over the weekend...

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 1:04 PM by Rick 41

Just thought I'd take a look to see what kind of memorials are built into the Nats' park. Didn't realize it, but they have a 3D seat view feature just like the one on the Twins site. (Click my name.)

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 1:10 PM by Rick 42

Well, I've verified that no uniform numbers have been retired by the Nationals, and no statues to former Washington greats have been erected, though three are planned: Walter Johnson, Frank Howard (expansion Senators/Rangers), and Josh Gibson (Homestead Grays).

The presence of a Homestead Grays-themed restaurant in Nationals Park highlights the rationale behind such decisions. The goal is to recognize and honor the history of baseball in the region. With that as the goal, it's easy to understand why you won't find any mentions of the Expos in that ballpark.

Despite the passage of time, the same sort of reasoning goes into how the Twins probably think of their former home.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 1:28 PM by Rick 43

Rick, living in DC, you couldn't tell the difference between an expansion Nats and the former Expos Nats. Montreal has been completely erased.

Nothing wrong with the Nats embracing DC baseball, but they go too far. No need to go too far the other way, either. I don't really care that the franchise was the same as the old Senators. Walter Johnson's physical memorial is exactly where it should be - Cooperstown. Not Minneapolis.

In some way, putting up an homage to the Senators in the new Twins park would be like beating up a guy and then taking his wife.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 3:13 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 44

And another thing we need in Minnesota - a classic 'victory song' to be played on the PA system after a win. The Yankees have New York New York, Boston has Dirty Water, what song about Minneapolis/Minnesota could the Twins use? Personally, I love Boston's Dirty Water - catchy tune that seals a win nicely.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 3:30 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 45

A song is not a bad idea. I'd have to suggest "You Gotta Have Heart" from the musical Damn Yankees (which, for the uninitiated, is about a fictional pennant race won by the old Washington Senators over the Bombers).

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 4:09 PM by Rick 46

Ooh, music, one of my favorite topics.

The Twins could play "Minneapolis," but the song is a bit of a downer ("Let my blood flow red and thin...Into the melting snow of Minneapolis," and all that).

My choice would have to be the Hamms theme, complete with Bear-on-rolling-log cartoon in HD!

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 4:20 PM by David Highlight this comment 47

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 4:32 PM by Rick 48

On the webcam it looks like they started installing the supports for the canopy along with the upper deck stadia supports.

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 5:18 PM by NewGuy Highlight this comment 49

Someone should get a picture of this angle at night! (Click Link)

Posted on October 17, 2008 at 6:01 PM by Tomtj_01 Highlight this comment 50


Interesting angle, but I can't quite figure out where that's from...

For everyone: The article has now been updated with additional photos and diagrams.

Posted on October 18, 2008 at 02:46 AM by Rick 51

Rick, great article on YS/NYS.

I agree that NYS feels too wide, and the "Great Hall" that they're building feels like the entrance to a large mall. It's kind of sad, and kind of scary at the same time that the Yankees will be able to generate even more revenue at their new park.

I like the NYS facade, even if it is a modern knockoff of the pre-renovated Stadium, but I don't like how they tied it together with the seating bowl/concourse exterior directly above the facade. The clash between "retro" and modern is a bit jarring.

Obviously I'm biased, but I really feel that Twins Field (still not comfortable calling it Target,) will be much cooler than NYS, and about 95% of the other parks in the Majors. What an exciting time for us Twins fans.

Posted on October 18, 2008 at 12:53 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 52

Apparently Yankee Stadium memorabilia isn't worth all that much these days... (link) Probably a sign of the times.

Posted on October 18, 2008 at 9:32 PM by Brian Highlight this comment 53

The photo looks like it was taken at the corner of 6th Ave. N and N 7th St.

Posted on October 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM by Tomtj_01 Highlight this comment 54

You mentioned Hamm's Beer. That old Hamm's bear has a striking resemblance to TC Bear. Maybe you're on to something. I think the TC Bear is cheesy but nothing will ever be worse than Twinkie the Loon - that bird brain still freaks me out.

Posted on October 19, 2008 at 7:19 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 55

There are a few new images on that include the stadia and canopy supports. Also the Twins have added some September construction pictures on their website.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 06:37 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 56

There are a few new images on that include the stadia and canopy supports. Also the Twins have added some September construction pictures on their website.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 06:37 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 57

I went to the dome sat. for the tour with my gf and kids... its was pretty cool for only 3 bucks, afterwards we went to the new ballpark site... it looks great and i was able to get on the site and take some pictures (the boys were eating lunch all together around left field)the lime stone looks way better in real life.. almost soon as i figure out how to link the photos i will add them here...

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 07:37 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 58

Does anyone know where I can access the photo gallery of the floor plans? I know at one time, the Twins had them posted but now I am not able to access that specific gallery.

It would just be interesting to take a look at the floor plans again as we can see the progress take shape on the terrace level and service/field levels.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 10:43 AM by Mike - Burnsville Highlight this comment 59

I think Billy Smith should get a playoff share from the Rays for the trade he made giving them Matt Garza (ALCS MVP) and Jason Bartlett.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 11:03 AM by badjuggler Highlight this comment 60

Regarding a victory song - how about Lamont Cranston "Upper Mississippi Shakedown"?

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 2:59 PM by B Highlight this comment 61

Yeah, so how did that trade with Gara turn out for us? You're welcomed Tampa Bay.

Given the results of this season does anyone think we would have been far better off without the trade?

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 3:04 PM by chuck in ak Highlight this comment 62

I still like Delmon's future more than Garza's.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 63


There are floor plans available in the stadium renderings at, but they are out of date. There were updated ones at Twins Fest this past year, and I assume they will be there again for '09. I was able to take pictures of the plans, unfortunately I haven't had the film developed yet,

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 4:50 PM by Pikachu732001 Highlight this comment 64

You have to get me going again don't you? Delmon is history...NL bound for a couple prospects. The Twins coaching staff hates the guy. They also hated Garza. Those two just ruffle to many feathers. Cuddyer, Morneau, Span, and Mauer are the future of the Twins. At least until 2011 that is.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 7:21 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 65

Thanks Pikachu! I will check out that bizofbaseball site.

I know the Twins put the updated floor/section plans on their website, but there is just something wrong with the Twins website and I am not able to access them (it comes up as page not available when I click on that specific photo gallery).

Hopefully they will get it corrected soon because it would be very interesting to see what is what as the service and terrace levels take shape and compare them to the floor/section plans.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 7:47 PM by Mike - Burnsville Highlight this comment 66


I don't know about Lamont Cranston's song. The Upper Mississippi Shakedown will forever be etched in my memory at North Stars games in the mid-late 80's. But it's a great song!

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 8:27 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 67

Burnsville Mike,

Click my name for the diagrams you seek.


Fellow lamenters,

You certainly can't argue with a system that produced the results it did this year (and the past eight, for that matter).


- It chafes to see Matt Garza getting handed the ALCS MVP.

- It chafes to see the national announcers heaping praise on Jason Bartlett (being called the "go to guy" on the Rays).

- It chafes to see Grant Balfour show a passion on the mound that we never saw (even considering the mixed results).

- It chafes to see Torii Hunter as the face of the Angels.

- It chafes to see Johann Santana as the face of the Mets.

- It chafes to see David Ortiz as the heart of the Red Sox.

- It chafes to see Casey Blake hailed for bringing professionalism and leadership to the Dodgers clubhouse.

I know, I know. There is a flip side to each of these stories: Bartlett, Garza, and Balfour wouldn't toe the line. Hunter and Santana were market-based departures. Blake was stuck behind Koskie. And Ortiz simply needed a bigger stage (and the freedom to swing for its fences).

But it sure seems like any system -- good as it may be -- has room for improvement when so many other teams benefit so greatly from its cast-offs.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 9:44 PM by Rick 68

The section plans don't work, but I found a workaround. Click my name for the link to the sections.

The floor plans are still available on the twins website. The following address brings up the Design Archives section.

Posted on October 20, 2008 at 10:30 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 69

those floor plans are the original floor plans and are really out dated. it would be nice to see the new floor plans.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 08:17 AM by MOJO Highlight this comment 70

I'm not 100% certain but I think the canopy first section of canopy may be going up now.... !!!! ?? !!!!

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 10:49 AM by Chippy Highlight this comment 71

Yeah Chippy looks like they are assembling part of the canopy on the ground first?

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 10:59 AM by Brian Highlight this comment 72

i wish the webcams for the twins were a live feed like the ones for the tcf bank stadium

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 11:06 AM by Erik Highlight this comment 73

Lafferty - I agree with you...I don't think Delmon is a lost cause. He wants to develop power, and the Twins want to coach him into hitting their way - so there's gonna be some bumps along the way. But he's an amazing hitter at 22 years old... I think at least one more year is needed before casting off such a young talent. On the other hand, I'd love to see Gomez head down to Rochester for a year and learn the fundamentals. Things like TAKING THE FIRST STEP FORWARD ON FLY BALLS, GETTING CAUGHT LEADING OFF TWICE A WEEK, MAKING TERRIBLE BASERUNNING DECISIONS, ETC could be improved a lot.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 12:42 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 74

Rick - Great take. I couldn't have said it better myself. Truer words have never been spoken. I think the front office - and perhaps to a lesser extent gardy & his coaching crew need to look in the mirror a little bit more sometimes rather than claiming - at leaset thru the media - that a guy "wasn't willing to do it the twins way".

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 1:11 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 75


Yes, those are the original floor plans -- they are also the most recent available!

At TwinsFest '08 there were updated versions on the walls of the ballpark booth, but those were not made available. I tried to get them.

If somebody took pictures of them, that would be better than nothing...

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 1:12 PM by Rick 76

Grass installed at New Yankee Stadium. It's exciting to think that in a year the Twins' park will be this far along...

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 2:58 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 77

Thanks everyone for the links to the floor/section plans!

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 3:11 PM by Mike - Burnsville Highlight this comment 78

The first Roof truss was put in place today...So one could say the park has reached or is very near its highest point! Exciting Stuff!

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 3:53 PM by Andrew Highlight this comment 79

The Ballpark Authority has a slideshow with new construction photos. Just follow the link.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 5:37 PM by Mo Highlight this comment 80

It looks like the Ballpark Authority hired a new photographer. Good for them.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 6:05 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 81

I hope Delmon Young comes back, since he has the ability to become a power bat. However, the team favors small ball hitters (because they have lower stats and cheaper price tags) and he doesn't always do things the Twins way, so he could be traded away for whatever pitching prospects the team can get in return.

Just once, I would like to see the team let the power bats swing away, rather then trying to turn them all into small ball (no extra base hits or home runs) hitters. Maybe once we have a couple more Home run threats, we can get more offensive consistency and get deep into the playoffs. Right now other teams view Morneau as the only home run threat on the roster. (no Kubel doesn't scare them)

The Rays and Phillies have multiple home run threats in their lineup, while we have only Morneau and Cuddyer when he is healthy. We've gone so far towards the small ball philosophy that we are devoid of home run hitters beyond Morneau. All small ball or all long ball will lead to disaster and a first round playoff exit, but a combination of the two works great, which is what the Rays are doing.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 8:43 PM by Alex D. Highlight this comment 82

I'm not aware of anybody else posting this link. Here is a replica of what the seats will be like. Click on my email for link.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 9:20 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 83

What is the design above the TC logo on the side? I can't make it out.

Thanks, JohnF.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 9:54 PM by Barry Highlight this comment 84


It is a commemorative tag that says "The First Pitch - April 2010"....Apparently the Twins had 150 of these "replica" Target Field Seats made.

Never heard a whisper about any seats being available, so it must be a pretty exclusive deal.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 10:52 PM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 85

Sorry, should have been more specific.

I meant the design that is directly incorporated into the seat assembly itself. Above where the seat pivots, above the TC logo plate.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 11:32 PM by Barry Highlight this comment 86

Its a batter swinging a bat in a baseball diamond.

Posted on October 21, 2008 at 11:45 PM by Matt Highlight this comment 87

Nice seat. Looks like we're saying "bye bye" today to one of our longtime construction cranes behind home plate. Making way for stadia I suppose. Bye bye...

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 09:32 AM by Chippy Highlight this comment 88

Someone in my office actually received one of those 150 "replica" Target Field Seats. I found out about it when I was wandering the halls the other evening. I tested the seat out and it was quite comfortable. I was going to take some pictures of it and post them, but I kept forgetting to bring a camera and now it looks like someone already put up some pictures. Needless to say, when I discovered the seat the other night I was even more excited about Target Field than before. If anyone wants, I can still take some pictures from a number of different angles to get a better feel for the seats.

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 10:14 AM by The Rational Actor Highlight this comment 89

Interesting that the seats will be mounted to the "floor." Usually they are mounted to the back.

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 1:04 PM by J2K Highlight this comment 90

I noticed at Miller Park how their field level "lower level" sections all have seats mounted to the ground while the loge and terrace levels have "back-mounted" seats.

Maybe its due to the fact that the field level sections are not as steep and have a much smaller slope than the club level and upper level sections, which are more steep.

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 4:01 PM by Tom Brumley Highlight this comment 91

If you zip around in the seat selector, you will notice that there are a variety of mounts in different sections (assuming it is accurate). I was able to find some mounted to the floor and some mounted to the step immediately behind.

I'm disappointed that the edge of the seat is so generic, and that the TC logo appears to be a little applique.

I will have to verify this, but I believe that all other recent parks mold the logo right into the side. That approach has a much more permanent quality to it.

The applique approach would allow the logos to be easily removed and replaced should one team leave and another team arrive. I'm not saying that's what they have in mind, but it's curious.

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 4:12 PM by Rick 92

Good call Tom, that makes perfect sense! I didn't think of that.

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 4:19 PM by J2K Highlight this comment 93

Somewhat Target Field related...For everyone that thinks the Target Center is a huge eyesore and is in need of an update...head over to the sports section at There is a very interesting article to check out.

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 6:23 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 94

here are a few pics i took last weekend of Target field... i will go get somemore this weekend

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 9:14 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 95

nice work, dude. I love seeing stuff from the "corner of mystery" that you can't see on the webcams.

Posted on October 22, 2008 at 10:11 PM by Dan M Highlight this comment 96

New scoreboard details apparently being released today. 102' x 57', that'd be a nice high def screen for my living room wall...

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 08:56 AM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 97

Mpls Greg,
I wish my whole house was that big - forget about the TV!

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 10:39 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 98

Is that glass being installed in the RF bldg?!?!

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 11:19 AM by J2K Highlight this comment 99

well, there will be 523 feet of ribbon boards so that whole debate is now dead...

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 12:01 PM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 100

i love in the comments on the strib article that people are complaining that the one at the met was bigger....

met - mostly metal with some flashing light bulbs, no video, old
target - brand new all hd scoreboard that can be one giant screen or several smaller ones

plus the out of town scoreboard will be like milwaukee/philadelphia which i am happy about.

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 12:04 PM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 101

Annoying Customer, make that 1,230 ft of ribbon board. the longest one is 523 ft - and that's just behind home plate. This will be the ultimate playground for as long as it stands.

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 12:35 PM by johnk Highlight this comment 102

Here is the Fact Sheet for the scoreboard from the Twins website.

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 1:01 PM by Mo Highlight this comment 103

yea it will be real nice, the one @ Kaufman is a monster

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 2:58 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 104

Some artist renderings from the Twins website showing the new scoreboard.

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 3:45 PM by Mo Highlight this comment 105

I'm not sure that those renderings show anything new about the scoreboard, but they are the first I've seen which show "Target Field" signage in straight-away center.

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 3:49 PM by Rick 106

The last photo in that series has a vertical beam in the middle of the view...Why on Earth would you put up an image like that?

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 3:50 PM by Andrew Highlight this comment 107

That's what I noticed too. In the 3d seat viewer it says "Minnesota Twins Ballpark". In the new scoreboard pics it has definately been changed to "Target Field"

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 3:55 PM by Mo Highlight this comment 108

I believe that is the view through a restaurant window.

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 3:55 PM by Rick 109

Now that we all know the official details of the new scoreboard, it only makes sense that the scoreboard becomes the topic of DSP's next monthly blog entry...

In all honesty though, hopefully he will give us a construction update soon or update us with some other information regarding Target Field.

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 4:39 PM by Andrew Thiel Highlight this comment 110

I remember watching the inaugural game at Nationals Park and how the announcers were gushing over the huge scoreboard. At over 1000 sq. feet larger and higher resolution than Nat's scoreboard, she's gonna be a beaut.

Posted on October 23, 2008 at 7:46 PM by ace Highlight this comment 111

the target field signage reminds me of the signage in left-center at new yankee stadium. the series moves to citizens bank, which i personally think looks fantastic on tv. the materials of the interior, the red brick, just the whole color scheme of the park. i really like the scoreboard at citizens bank also and what they do with the liberty bell signage animation for every phillies homerun. target field will be even more photogenic, imo. i know the twins brass took a lot of cues from citizens bank when designing target field.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 08:33 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 112

There was mention on here about the "Out of Town" scoreboard will be similar to the ones at Milwaukee and Philadelphia. Does anyone have any pictures of these for comparison? Also, what features do the scoreboards at Milwaukee and Philadelphia have?

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 09:08 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 113

There is a good comparison between the Twins replica seat and the seats used at Progressive Field at if anyone is interested.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 09:10 AM by Jeff Highlight this comment 114

Here is a view of the out of town scoreboard at Citizens Bank Park.

As for Milwaukee, they installed new out of town scoreboards prior to the 2007 season and they are now different than those at Citizens Bank Park.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 10:14 AM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 115

A mock-up of the scoreboard courtesy of the Ballpark Authority.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 10:51 AM by Mo Highlight this comment 116

Good find Mo. I wonder what logo they'll actually use on top of the videoboard.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 11:18 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 117

I understand that having a video board built in to the outfield wall is a lot more versatile, but I still wish they had classic out of town scoreboard.

The one in left field in Milwaukee looks tacky as hell - it's super bright. In fact, the whole left-center part of Miller park looks tacky as hell.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 12:20 PM by Haasertime Highlight this comment 118


All of Miller Park looks tacky as hell. Watching a game there is like watching a game inside your local Costco or Sam's Club.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 12:50 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 119

Personally, I hope the Twins would take some design cues from the Washington Nationals main scoreboard. I like how they used the team name on the top center, and how they incorporated and used the team's logo as a clock. I do hope though that the Twins extend the lights across the entire scoreboard top.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 1:10 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 120

Completely agree with you Jeff. I love the Nationals scoreboard. It might be the only thing I like about that ballpark.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 1:16 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 121

I also like how the Reds installed a modern Longines clock on their scoreboard. The clock on Great American Ballpark is probably the only thing I like about their park. Something like that would look cool on our scoreboard and it would pay homage to Met Stadium's scoreboard. I think it would blend in well with the theme the Twins are using in left field. The 2 deck pavillion, the flags atop the 2nd deck. A modern Longines clock would be a nice touch. Click my name to see the one in Cincinnati to the left of the Bud Light sign.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 2:10 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 122

I LOVE the Giants Scoreboard. They have a huge HD screen along with a lot of good retro design - and a cool clock. check it out...

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 2:34 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 123

Here is a link to, which has a bunch of great pictures of Nationals Ballpark including the scoreboard. Just click on my name. The ninth picture down on the page is a great shot of the scoreboard.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 3:32 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 124

Lafferty, "It might be the only thing I like about that ballpark."

I got to say their blue stone backstop is pretty sweet, hate to say it but it looks way better then our limestone which is also on PNC ballpark.

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 5:34 PM by Matt Highlight this comment 125

Jeff, yes that blue stone backstop does look really nice. Unfortunately that's the only place the stone is used. It's been mentioned before, but the exterior of Nat's park looks more like a hockey/basketball arena than a ballpark (click my name).

Posted on October 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM by ace Highlight this comment 126

I'm going to be honest, nothing other than the scoreboard and Ben's Chili Bowl concession stand impresses me about the National's stadium. The seating bowl seems disconnected and pieceed together like 10 different architects were given 10 different parts of the ballpark to design. Nowhere is this more evident than the outfield. The light placement also seems scattered.

Though I speak in unison with few on this topic, I'm glad we are NOT including blue seats in Target Field. The photos of Nat's Park proves that ontinuity is destroyed when the blue seat and green grass they are trying to fight for your attention. Doesn't work for me. Ace, couldn't agree more...the outside of the building looks like the X but with less transparency, and a colder sidewalk appeal. Plus the banners used to cover up the parking ramps are oversized tarps with logos on them. Really?

I just get no sense of that connectivity and community that is necessary to make a ballpark or any gathering place special.

Posted on October 25, 2008 at 10:48 AM by John K Highlight this comment 127

Nats Park is a disaster on many levels (not even including the quality of the team). It is what happens when HOK is left to its own devices.

The Twins have a strong ballpark team (along with a site requiring much more discipline) in place to push HOK and the results are in a different league altogether.

Posted on October 25, 2008 at 11:07 AM by Rick 128

Ace, I made no mention about the blue stone backstop. My comment was towards how nice the Nationals scoreboard is. OG Jeff, the Giants scoreboard is nice, but retro just wouldn't fit. I believe the Twins should be as simple as possible with their design with modern touches.

Posted on October 25, 2008 at 3:40 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 129

I mentioned that nationals blue stone back stop is pretty cool but other than that the ballpark is terrible for being brand new. I would have preffered that blue stone over our limestone if they didnt already have it.
But yes our ballpark is in a totally different league.

Posted on October 25, 2008 at 9:21 PM by Matt Highlight this comment 130

Here are some photo's from Target Field today, a few from inside the structure

......Click my name.

Posted on October 25, 2008 at 11:27 PM by Image hosted by
by mazaratirick07">Mazaratirick Highlight this comment 131

Great pics mazarati! I see a couple of pics were taken of the blueprints. Have they elevated the terror alert yet?

Posted on October 26, 2008 at 07:16 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 132

i doubt it...i think the rentals where sleeping.... did not see a sole

Posted on October 26, 2008 at 12:49 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 133

I think Maz just got some folks fired yesterday. Nice pics though.

Posted on October 26, 2008 at 5:27 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 134

i just want to make it clear the person that took those pics( not saying it was me :)) did not touch/remove or distrurb anything on the site....i would hope they will step up the security when things like the scoreboard and seats are installed...

Posted on October 26, 2008 at 6:32 PM by mazaratick Highlight this comment 135


My bad. Meant to type Matt.

Posted on October 26, 2008 at 6:56 PM by ace Highlight this comment 136

I'm sure Mortenson or whoever's trailer you broke into really appreciates it.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 12:13 AM by You're a bad ass Highlight this comment 137

Love the board, never post, but i have to chime in and say how (dumb/idiotic) do you have to be to 'wether you took pictures" or not to post them on here, there-by implicating yourself in this matter. If not already this will be investigated by the authorities for among other things .. ding, ding.. trespassing...

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 05:27 AM by Not to Brilliant ... Highlight this comment 138

messg to "not so brilliant.."

you sound like someone who should keep up the whole "never posting" M.O.

Thanks for the photos.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 06:35 AM by not as unthankful... Highlight this comment 139

Dont worry wont post anymore, but being indirectly related to the construction of this park, i will pass this along....

love the site

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 07:47 AM by Not to brilliant Highlight this comment 140

Very amusing!! I'm indirectly related to the construction of the park because I pay the Hennepin county sales tax!

How are you "indirectly" related to the construction of the park? Sounds like a friend's uncle's neighbor's postman type thing?

By the way, I love the moniker Not 'to' brilliant... very ironical!

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 08:57 AM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 141

I have been down to the site a few times in the last few weeks when im downtown... and have seen some things that you may want to "pass along" there indirect boy,

there are many people roaming around that area taking pictures and some have entered it... I guess i dont mind aslong as they dont set construction back... im thinking he (not to briliant) is a guard or friends with one that was not doing his or her job... that is why he is taking this so personal...

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 09:19 AM by Patrick Highlight this comment 142

I have richly enjoyed the trolls that navigate this site every now and then...

"I will pass this along".

Keep up the great work, douchebag!

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 09:42 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 143

Limestone going in behind home plate!? It's hard to tell, but it looks like it.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 10:31 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 144

Hello! Friendly moderator here!

Encouraged: Reading, viewing, posting, reasonableness, calm.

Discouraged: Snippiness, trespassing.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 11:34 AM by Rick 145

This is being blown way out of proportion, its called exploring… yes technically it’s a misdomeder but it happens everyday and you don’t even know it, and also on Ricks other page regarding the Met there are wonderful photos of the broken down stadium… if this was a old stadium like the met, Tiger stadium or say one day Fenway left un attended it would be praised …those places were still private property and in that case the “Explorer” would probably try to take home a souvenir (stealing)

Maz stated that whoever took these photos did not “disturb” the site…so I will believe him, but I for one like to see new images from other locations of the ballpark that I can’t see due to being outstate. Just as I was never able to see photos of Met stadium in the condition it was in until I found Ricks other page a few years back.

Either way I enjoy all the new photos from everybody who contributes to this site… I hope it continues

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 11:57 AM by OutstateAaron Highlight this comment 146

click my name to see the Tresspassers/Explorers I was refering too on the "Remember the Met" page.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 12:09 PM by OutstateAaron Highlight this comment 147

Click link to see a couple of cool aerial shots.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 12:27 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 148

Awsome shot Lafferty!

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 12:31 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 149

While I too enjoy the interior pics, sometimes the end doesn't justify the means...

Also it would be great if people who aren't willing to stamp their name would not post at all. There's a fine line between clever and annoying.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 12:32 PM by Brian Highlight this comment 150

Alright, enough all of you pollyannas. I for one applaud your work Mazarati, or whoever it was that did it. It just goes to show what a farce security or homeland security is for that matter. As all the attention has been put on terrorizing innocent people like Rick who wants to take pics from the skyway or Ford Centre, they totally leave the actual site vulnerable for a breach....PRICELESS!!!! Good work morons!

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 2:00 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 151

Nice pics Lafferty.

Mazaratirick, did you pull your pics - I can't see them...

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 3:15 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 152

yea im gonna change them to flicker... i will re post tonight when i get home

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 153

agreed with kevin. If someone wants to get arrested so that i can see some pics of the interior of the stadium, great. We don't mind thinkin outside the box, doesn't bother us at all.

See this article (click name) about the possibility of summer concerts at Target Park? It says some Twins reps are going to PETCO to watch a Madonna concert. They love Madonna.

Between concerts and a skating rink in the winter, the grounds crew will be pretty busy.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 4:28 PM by haasertime Highlight this comment 154


Posted on October 27, 2008 at 4:30 PM by haasertime Highlight this comment 155

Well, apparently our friend Lafferty was not the only one doing a flyover of the Target Field site. The Minnesota National Guard flew members of the Twins staff over the site. See the link for pictures of the flyover courtesy of the Twins website.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 5:49 PM by Mo Highlight this comment 156

DSP has updated his blog.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 5:53 PM by Mo Highlight this comment 157

Concerts are good. I remember the Pablo Cruise/Eagles/Steve Miller concert in '78 at the Met...Good times!

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 6:46 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 158

here u go og jeff click me

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 8:08 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 159

As a follow-up to what DSP says about weather, re: open air ballparks; note that it it is currently 43 with a 15 mph wind (and rain on the way) in Philly for game 5 of the World Series, while it's 37 and barely any wind in Minny tonight. Which place has the worse weather right now?


Posted on October 27, 2008 at 8:12 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 160

Thanks mazarati - good pics.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 8:51 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 161

This weather issue is getting ridiculous...there is going to be NO roof people, so accept that fact and move on.

I cannot believe the outrage that continues to pour in over the lack of roof and the fact the Twins are moving baseball back to the outdoors. BASEBALL = OUTDOORS!

Most of the dedicated bloggers/readers on this site (as well as every other true baseball fan) can all agree that the Twins made the right choice with an outdoor ballpark. It makes no sense for me to post this message on this site, but it angers me the amount of people that continue to cry about a lack of roof. I SHOULD really be posting on the Star Tribune, but there are simply just too many idiots on there that do not understand baseball and post what they feel like posting. I know all people on this site at least have passion for the game of baseball and know baseball belongs outdoors.

If its so uncomfortable being outdoors in October, STAY HOME! Most of us would be very fortunate to be watching our team play in October.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 10:47 PM by Mike Brumley Highlight this comment 162

I want the grounds keeper job.

Posted on October 27, 2008 at 10:51 PM by Matt Highlight this comment 163

Come on start a new thread. The whole roof thing is a dead issue, but someone always seems to bring it up damn them. It is nice that DSP has updated his blog.

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 11:26 AM by NewGuy Highlight this comment 164

who the heack was talking about a roof? i see mike b talking about someone bringing it up but i dont see where it came from???

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 12:23 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 165

Maz, He was referring to all the morons the post on the star trib blogs about wanting a roof on TF.

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 12:37 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 166

What sounds better Target Field or Target Park?

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 12:40 PM by TF Highlight this comment 167

I was actually wondering if the footings were poured to accommodate a roof in the future, if the Twins decided to add one say in a couple years. Another thing I was thinking about was if anyone had thought it would be cool if the city would let folks tailgate of top of the B or C parking ramps. Could you imagine playing some catch with your son before a game up there and having the ball fly over the edge onto Target Field? Cool Uh!
kevin in az, How about the 3rd web cam? I'd like to see the CF steel work uh.
Is anyone else going bunkers thinking about how cool it is going to be in April 2010 at the new ballpark? Do you think the Twins will have tours before opening day that spring?
Last thing...Who is sick and tired of looking at the beginning of this thread? Thus the purpose of this insanely stupid post!! Sorry Rick, I do love the site. Keep up the good work.

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 12:48 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 168

oh yea they are a bunch of broken records... thanks locker..that was funny too by the way...

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 1:28 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 169

I was referring to a lot of the media and general public who continue to cry for a roof, in particular, over the last couple of days with the weather issue in Philadelphia. Due to the events in Philly, it sure seems talks have revived in the media about the need for a roof in Minnesota. I am sure this is the stuff DSP was referring to in his blog as well.

As I mentioned, most of us on this site are happy with the open air ballpark, its the media and general public who continue to claim their desires for a roof on the new ballpark.

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 2:24 PM by Mike Brumley Highlight this comment 170

You never fail to make me chuckle. I don't need anymore web cams so long as Maz is intent on strolling through the site to get great shots like those last ones. The next person to bitch about the roof needs to be shot. I'm sorry, I know that's harsh and extreme, but for god's sake, shut the hell up already about the roof.

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 8:19 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 171

Kevin, I'll bring the ammo.

Has anyone wondered if the people complaining about there not being a roof are the same people that opposed the whole thing at the start? Idiots.

Posted on October 28, 2008 at 9:14 PM by chuck in ak Highlight this comment 172

1. "'s sure odd that the area of the playing field should be so lopsided toward left."

Two Words:

Andrew. Clem.

Study his diagrams. Go to baseball fever under the 1923-1973 Yankee Stadium Forum. There are pre-WWII Bronx street maps of the YS area. From Clem's works and those maps you will see how the lopsided shape of the 10.x acre property dictated the shape of the structure, which in turn dictated the shape of the outfield. No "golden ratios" here - just the facts of life, and real estate, deep down in the Boogie Down!

2.(Caption to Gate 2 photo) "Those little oval additions are positively laughable!"

What on EARTH were you referencing?? The escalator pod shoehorned in to the left of Gate Two? Unlike Gates 6 and 4, Gate 2 was the closest to a thoroughfare, making it necessary to place its pod not on the sidewalk but right where one of the bullpens used to be(pre-1970s remodel). So I guess, yeah, from the side it could look like "oval additions".

Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:47 PM by Yanx4EVR Highlight this comment 173


Posted on September 17, 2011 at 8:48 PM by bulldog Highlight this comment 174

This page was last modified on January 21, 2010.

"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3046 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.

Lots of speakers, but in some places, no sound.

The closed concession stand.

Integrating the administration building was really a great idea. Actually, there will be more things inside than just offices, but that will probably be some sweet space.

The model still shows the Batters Eye Club, which is no longer part of the design.

I finally found the corner of TF dedicated to the Senators. What a wonderful sight.

Griffith Stadium (notch visible in lower photo at far left)

This was on BPM night. Nice neon, but I'm still waiting to see the homer show.

This little pathway snakes between the LRT tracks and the Environmental Services Building, emptying into the parking area surrounding the HERC. It could be for maintenance, but it looks more like it's for convenience.

B ramp glimpse

Section 331, Row 9

Giant screened images! (573 Club, my back to Seventh Ave windows)

One of the many supports being built over the tracks.

From an earlier visit: Don't bother with those escalators either. They were also roped off. And how about a bench? Or a planter? Or even a trash can? That woman is doing the only thing she can: leaning up against a post to do her texting.

The big glove will go on that circle. Note the gap between the plaza and the ramp. That's 394 you can see through there.

The lone light standard and one of those "entry beacons."

Approach in the A ramp to the skywalk over Seventh

They help create a psychological safe area along the plaza edge, and help you forget that cars are zipping by directly beneath you.

Special guests in the trees!

Twins president Dave St. Peter presents his list of fan suggestions to the Ballpark Authority

Since pictures of the ballpark are forbidden, perhaps you'll enjoy this shot of the lovely apple tree in my front yard.

5:45 PM, section 327, row 9, sitting: shade.

Legend's Club, Section E (Click to enlarge greatly.)

In addition to the Pro Shop facade, you can see more gravel being laid before the final plaza surface is poured.

The green is a composite of the topmost seating areas in the new ballpark. The gray is a scale diagram of the Metrodome.

From the B ramp, 6th level elevator lobby window

Plaza signage

Kirby Jr. set to take down the last number

This is the back of the Cisco Field scoreboard, showing video to folks out on the plaza.

You can't get there from here.

The dish!

Up there is where I plan to buy a lot of hot dogs. You can see the vending areas developing rather quickly around the completed portion of the upper concourse.


BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis


First Edition (1992)

Second Edition (2006)


Selected Bibliography - Surveys


Second Edition (1987)

Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title

(2000, large coffee table)

Original edition (2000, round)

Revised edition (2006, round)

(2001, medium coffee table)

(2002, small coffee table)

(2003, medium coffee table)

(2004, very large coffee table)

(2006, very large coffee table)

Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia


Book and six ballpark miniatures

Complete Bibliography

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