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Take the Survey

July 19, 2009 12:18 AM

A new survey is up on the Twins web site which gives a sneak peak at their current thinking on single game ticket prices. It's pretty interesting stuff, and I encourage you to take the time (it's pretty long) to give your opinions. I think it took me about 20 minutes.

Of course, I took notes along the way, and I've updated my section chart with price info. The first price is for season tickets, the second for single game.

seating chart with prices.jpg

These prices are pretty much what I think anyone watching this process might have expected. There are no real surprises. I'm going to assume that this survey is just to draw out areas where there may be additional opportunities, and that if they don't find any, these will be the prices. Any changes from here will likely be only tweaks.

I must say that overall the prices are really quite reasonable.

They seem a little bit high in the outfield to me, especially considering that many of these seats will have obstructed views of the warning tracks and walls. And they seem very high in the lower deck of the main grandstand. I can't imagine paying $36 to $61 more than maybe once a year (first year of a new ballpark may be the only exception). But that's my budget, and I'm probably in the minority there.

Having said that, when I go to other cities to visit ballparks, that's usually about what I have to pay. In those cases, it's a special occasion for me and I want to have good seats. Here in town, I consider going to games just a part of the rhythm of summer. Most of the time I can't justify spending that kind of money (and my spouse, who is certainly a baseball fan and indulges me regularly on such things, would probably look askance at me if I made that a habit).

So I'm looking at the Skyline View ($17) and Field View ($15) as the sweet spots for our family -- which means they will probably be impossible to come by. From there I'd move to the family section (see below) or the Home Plate View ($25).

The family section is proposed as sections 310 and 311, which is otherwise part of the Home Plate View section. They floated me three prices ($24, $22, and $20) before moving on. They then said that there might be a $2 drink coupon available to go with these tickets.

The interesting thing to note about that is that it's nowhere near as generous as the free hot dog and soda coupon which you get with family section tickets at the Dome. Of course, the free hot dog really sucks, so it may not be that big of a loss in reality, but in perception it's huge.

twinsroofdeck4a.jpg

Party deck

Several other concepts caught my eye:

1. Mini season ticket packages with as little as 6 games. I would seriously jump on that if it became available.

2. $2 discount on games before Memorial Day. Not sure what difference that would make, but it's a polite and welcome nod to the weather and the lower demand while school is still in session.

3. $5 premium for NYY/BOS/CWS (and more?) games. I hate this. My question is this: Why not a $5 discount then when the worst team in the division is in town? Why not price all tickets according to payroll or win-loss record? Why not price based on hot or cold streaks? Why not price weekend games more than weekday games?

I've long predicted that pro sports teams will eventually move to an airline-style pricing model. Your price will be determined by how early you order, who the opponent is, the day of the week, how many tickets you buy at once, overall demand for a game, what your zip code is (Boston zip codes buying tickets to a Red Sox game in Minnesota pay more), time of day/year, standings, and 100 other possible variables. Just like on a plane, you could be sitting next to someone who paid a lot more, or a lot less, for his ticket.

I'm not saying I want this. I'm saying I fully expect it. It's just a matter of imagination and programming.

twinsroofdeckcloseupa.jpg

Party deck

By the way, I think that $5-$10 premium on front row seats (which appears not to apply to single game tickets -- at least it wasn't mentioned in the survey) may die a quick death depending on how people react to the railing heights. I got a message from one STH who visited his actual seats on a recent tour and was seriously pissed about the railing blocking his view of the plate. He said that it was only a factor in the first couple of rows, but it was a factor.

The survey asked about preferred start times for Saturday and weekday games. I had no idea they had so many options, but I tried to pick the sunniest hours in each case.

There were several questions (and a couple of great images, reproduced here) about the rooftop party deck. This is just a spectacular amenity, and I'm glad they took their time in designing it properly (you may remember that it wasn't in any of the original renderings).

The survey included proposed prices for single game tickets (only available for about 30 games) and standing room tickets (which apparently also would require a separate ticket to the game elsewhere in the park). If you are going to the game primarily to party, this is probably the area to select. I'm guessing that my scorecard would be pretty quickly neglected if I went up there. But after a game is a whole different thing.

Level Of Concern

There were a couple of odd questions. First, they wanted to know whether I felt like I was getting enough information on the new ballpark. What could I say? I answered NO!

But then they wanted to know how I felt about the team's future, considering its roster and current management. I admitted that I felt "concerned".

If you'll remember, Johan Santana left because he wanted to win, and he felt like the Twins management wasn't capable of providing him a good enough shot. (So he picked the Mets. Oops.) He probably wouldn't have taken much of a discount to stay with the team even if he thought they would eventually win. But I believed then (and still believe) that his potential value to the franchise was up around his asking price -- insane as it was.

Now we're starting to hear that Mauer and Morneau, who played a helluva lot of games with Johan (and Torii), just want the chance to win, and they have concerns which echo Santana's (I think Hunter wanted the payday more than the ring). Again, each is worth somewhere around his market value to the franchise (in a combination of on-field skill, goodwill to the fans, and overall franchise credibility), and is integral to its chances of winning something anytime soon.

If I'm them, I want the Twins to be my permanent home. But if I don't feel confident that I'll be surrounded by playoff-caliber teammates (Brian Buscher? Brendan Harris? Casilla? Tolbert? Delmon Young?), I'm gonna start looking around a little more seriously.

In other words, making a deal with either of the M's is as much about raising the overall talent level around them as it is about adding zeroes or years. Considering the moves the front office has made (or not made) in recent memory, I'm a little twitchy about the team that will run out onto that new grass in 2010 and beyond.

And one thing is for sure: Losing either of those boys would seriously take the wind out of a new ballpark's sails.

Pricing Proposal

Here is the full chart of proposed single game prices mentioned in the survey. Note that surveys apparently vary on some pricing, so this chart will be updated as I hear what people are actually being asked about.

Main Grandstand, Lower
Home Plate Box: $57-61 (surveys vary)
Diamond Box: $43-47 (surveys vary)
Field Box: $32-36 (surveys vary)

Main Grandstand, Upper
Home Plate Terrace: $32-36 (surveys vary)
Home Plate View: $22-25 (surveys vary)
Family Section (310 & 311): $20 or $22 or $24, with either $2 drink or $2 discount on drink
Field Terrace: $22-25 (surveys vary)
Skyline View: $14-17 (surveys vary)
Field View: $12-15 (surveys vary)

Outfield
Left Field Bleachers: $23
Home Run Porch Terrace: $27
Home Run Porch View: $25
Batter's Eye: $23
Pavilion: $22-25 (surveys vary)
Grandstand: $25
Overlook: $23-26 (surveys vary)
Right Field Bleachers: $17-20 (surveys vary)

Party Deck
Full-game: $24 or $26 or $28
Standing-room: $5 or $10 (essentially a cover charge, this requires a ticket elsewhere in the park)

fireworks.jpg

Finally, a night game image -- complete with fireworks! (OK, it's either a construction photo which has been Photoshopped, or some lucky photographer spent the Fourth of July in the upper deck watching the fireworks over the river. Cool either way.)

Comments


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The survey made it sound like the standing room Party Deck tickets would REQUIRE an additional regular seat ticket. Why would you pay extra to stand when you have an empty seat waiting for you? To be honest, tickets are more than I thought they would be.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 08:32 AM by James Highlight this comment 1

Hey James, if you are at the game, scoring every pitch, you definitely want to be sitting in your seat. On the other hand, if you are part of the younger crowd out with your buddies (both guys and gals)you will die for the opportunity to hang out at one of the coolest spots in all of Major League Basebaull. (Budweiser Party Deck)

I am surprized that the Bud prices are as low as they are. As for the other prices, they are right on what would be expected based on the Twins pricing strategy at the Dome.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 09:17 AM by clublevelfan Highlight this comment 2

with prices like this... they'd better keep M&M and start dabbling with LEGIT free agents. I know they can't quite go Yankees/Sox but they CAN certainly compete with other first division teams. I've said it before, I've been a lifelong fan, but if they lose Mauer or Morneau... I'm done as a fan. and I will officially regret the work I did to get this ballpark built, because it will have proved our opponents right about the Twins intentions. I don't want to believe it to be true, but...

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 09:49 AM by CJ Highlight this comment 3

Very good post as usual and I answered "NO" to the same question regarding ballpark information.

I also selected "very concerned" with the current team management. Fans with knowledge of the current situation have to be concerned where this team is and where this team is heading.

These are just a few of the names that the Twins have brought in as free agents in recent years.

Tony Batista
Jeff Cirillo
Sidney Ponson
Rondell White
Ramon Ortiz
Mike Lamb
Adam Everett
Livan Hernandez
Luis Ayala
Sean Henn
Joe Crede

On top of those FA signings, this team has made ZERO moves DURING THE SEASON (in July/August) to improve their lineup.

The bottom of the order is a disaster with the 2nd base and shortstop by committee approach comprised of Casiilla, Tolbert, Punto and Harris.

I think Denard Span has overachieved in the eyes of the Twins and they are very fortunate to be getting the production/leadership from him. I hope he continues because I am becoming a bigger Denard Span fan each day.

I am still undecided on the Young-Garza deal but its not looking good at this point. I need to give Young another year before I really judge that trade. It sure doesn't help seeing Bartlett hit the way he has and the Rays run to the World Series last year under the pitching of Garza.

The Twins also over-value guys such as Lew Ford, Juan Rincon and Nicky Punto and don't offer them up in trades until their value is too low and no-one wants them for what our asking price is.

Our minor leagues seem to be getting depleted too with talent. It's not like the late 90's where AA and AAA were stacked with talen. You could call up a Cuddyer, Hunter, Kubel, Koskie, etc. Is there any "big-time" prospects in AA or AAA right now that we could call up who would have an instant impact on our team? I don't think so.

These are just some of the things and its impossible to explain everything, but if you are a true Twins fan and follow the team's management direction, you have to be concerned with the direction this team is heading in.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 10:34 AM by Mike Highlight this comment 4

I'm very unhappy to hear about the railing problem--there was NO mention of this by the Twins during the season ticket seat selection process--we are paying a premium for the front row and it would have been nice if this was better explained. I assumed that paying a premium meant they were better seats, not worse. It certainly was never incorporated into the computerized view from your prospective seats. Hopefully this turns out to be a small annoyance rather than a big problem, but I'm getting more worried with each post I see.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 10:50 AM by sv Highlight this comment 5

Rick - regarding your comment 3, more teams are going to variable pricing (the Giants have really expanded it), so I expect that we will eventually see discounts for the KC, Baltimore, A's games for example and probably for less than ideal weather.

I don't like the across the board $5 premium, especially since it hits the lower priced tickets significantly more.

I also echo CJ's thoughts above - I don't mind the prices so much IF the Twins demonstrate that they are serious about putting a contending team on the field and not just a profitable one.

Smith and company need to get serious NOW or attendance in 2012 (and maybe even 2011) will take a far bigger hit than they think. A new ballpark buys you ONE year (see Washington) and sometimes not even that (see the new Yankee Stadium). After that, it's the team.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 11:50 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 6

This is weird. My survey listed all of the same prices as those listed above, except is said $14 for Skyline View and $12 for Field View.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM by Entensify Highlight this comment 7

Clearly, some parts of the survey are variable based on your answers. It may also be that certain portions are random, in order to test various options.

My chart is of the prices I got when I took it. I'm very curious to hear if others get different prices.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 12:00 PM by Rick 8

I also think that the front row premium is a raw deal except for home plate and diamond box in the infield (and I think HPB is questionable, since the first row is really like row 14 or so, even though they are elevated).

However, I don't expect the front row premiums to go away this year (since seat selection was done with this in place) and it won't go away unless there is a significant outcry from those season ticket holders (and no demand to take over those seats if vacated in subsequent years).

I've never been in an upper deck where the front row seats were better than those in row 2 and I never get row 1 seats if it can be avoided. Now that the Twins have raised the railings, I suspect Target Field will be the same.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 12:01 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 9

It makes sense that there are versions of the survey with different price points - the earlier one on single game pricing sent to existing season ticket holders had questions for each of three pricing levels by seat location.

The Twins want to find the levels where the majority of answers are "Definately Purchase" rather than "Possibly Purchase".

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 12:05 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 10

James - I wondered the same thing. Why stand, when you have a seat somewhere else? However, depending on where your seat is, you might have a dad in front of you with a screaming child, or a guy next to you who stuffs his face all game long and makes you get up so he can go get more beer and food. Or two business guys in three-piece suits behind you wondering what a DH is...you might want to move up to the SRO area...lol. But the Bud Party Deck might be a good spot for post-game fireworks.

I thought the price points suggested were a bit higher than I was thinking they might be. What I don't understand is why the bleachers out in left are somehow cheaper than the seats right above it. and why at the high end ($23) they're somehow more expensive than the same type of seats over on the right field side ($20).

For me, $23 seemed way too high for the Batter's Eye seats. $15 might be alright, but $23 seemed a bit steep, for seats way out in CF. Home Plate View and Skyline View seemed reasonable...and if they do in fact offer 6-game (or even 8-game) packages, I would seriously consider jumping on board - but with those, I wonder if the same STH amenities would apply, or even if holders of such packages would be considered STH's...

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 12:10 PM by luke Highlight this comment 11

luke - I like the idea of a price break for mini-packages, but I don't think those should convey STH rights.

STHs that have 20, 40, 81 games are taking a risk (assuming they don't use all the tickets personally) and they deserve benefits that aren't available to everyone over and above the pricing discount. (though I would argue that the STH ticket pricing is the "real" price of a seat)

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 12:27 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 12

So, is there is a significant difference in rail heights depending on upper or lower level?
Re front row premium, I didn't think it was applicable to home plate box or diamond box (except 104 and 124, where front row is on the field).
I suspect the prices from the survey are on the higher end of market research possibilities. They risk not selling out the first year, unless I am mistaken about season ticket sales so far, and continued high unemployment in the near future.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM by robin Highlight this comment 13

The Dugout Box, Home Plate Box, and Legends Club are actually a pretty good value compared to larger markets. I just wish the cheap seats were less expensive. I would like to see the following:

Field View - $7 - $12

Skyline View - $10 - $15

Home Plate View - $17 - $20

Home Plate Terrace - $22 - $30

The prices listed for all the outfield sections and Field Terrace are a big rip off in my opinion.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 1:14 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 14

One of my season ticket partners took the survey and sent the following prices, some of which were different than what I saw when I took the survey:

HPB - $57
DB - $43
FB - $32

HPT - $32
HPV - $22
Field Terrace - $22
Skyline - $14
Field View - $12

Pavillion - $22
Overlook - $23
RF Bleachers - $17

Bud deck - $28 or $26 or $24 (30 dates)
Deck SRO - $10 or $5 (with other tickets)
Family Zone 310/311 - $24 or $22 or $20 maybe to include $2 discount on pop

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 1:17 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 15

I took the survey before this was posted, and I don't remember how the prices compared. I also didn't get the questions about the party deck on my survey. Of course, I answered "No" to the question about information on the ballpark. As a STH, I was kind of hoping that there would be concession questions in the survey since I already have my seats picked (section 306 in the Field View area). I'm concerned about the concession prices becoming even more unbelievable in the new stadium. I'm also really hoping that they let you bring in a soft sided cooler with water bottles like KC did (at least a few years ago when I was there). Oh well. Maybe a survey like that is still coming at some point...

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM by AnnaM Highlight this comment 16

The Twins I think are trading on the popularity of the outfield seating at the dome - the home run porch is very, very popular, and I think they believe that will continue at TF - and to an extent it will, but not for seats out of reach by home run balls, not at the prices the survey indicated.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM by CJ Highlight this comment 17

Note on the Bud deck SRO seats - those would be seperate admission tickets for pre game or post game access, when there was some entertainment there and/or just to have a drink, snack, whatever.

Once you leave, you have to pay again to return.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 1:23 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 18

I was just thinking - why don't the Twins consider single game pricing based on the Twins Won-Lost record? Most teams raise prices after a post-season appearance, why not do the same during the regular season if the club is winning? And, if they stink, give an incentive to come out to the park in the form of lower prices (to drive concession sales)

That would give management some incentive to field a winning team

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 1:32 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 19

Twins signed Grudzielanek to a minor league deal.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 2:05 PM by AJ Highlight this comment 20

AJ
That's just great....they sign someone who hasn't played all fucking year...GREAT JOB BILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 2:12 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 21

Oh yay! Another minor league player! Thank you Billy for being the best in baseball! Bleh...come on Twins. I am definitely seeing a future much like Pittsburgh, "rebuilding, rebuilding, rebuilding". Ugh!

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 2:17 PM by BB Highlight this comment 22

I know this has been posted before, but I thought it would be interesting to poast again, MinnPost did a "Fans Eye Perspective" blog about TF (click my name, I have no idea how old this blog post is. It's at least a couple years). The second slide, is their predictions on what the prices might be. They seem to be spot on...except for leaving out the Club Level entirely (probably figuring those seats wouldn't be available for purchase. But I also think they were way off with the Champions Club seats at $275 a ticket.

What is missing in the MinnPost blog is the pricing for the outfield seats...

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM by luke Highlight this comment 23

Forgive my errant spelling in "...interesting to poast again." The word "post" doesn't have an "a" in it...lol.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 2:35 PM by luke Highlight this comment 24

luke - I think that blog/post was showing proposed season ticket prices., which would explain the areas left off.

Also, they weren't off with the Champions Club at all - row 1 tickets are $275, rows 2 through 5 are $225 and the rest are $175.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 2:54 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 25

I think the prices listed above (jfh 1:17) are more likely, and more reasonable.
Does anyone know if the barrier that separates home plate box and diamond box sections from the dugout box and champion club boxes below them, is going to include rails, and if those rails are going to be high enough to interfere?

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 3:07 PM by robin Highlight this comment 26

Granted signing Grudzielanek doesn't cost the Twins much but if this is the only move Billy Smith makes this year, then he deserves to get canned. But we are the Twins, the small market, happy to be there, and the "well we did talk to a lot of teams but we weren't able to get anything done that would improve our team."

He's been a very below average GM in his two years.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 3:46 PM by IowaWigman Highlight this comment 27

I'm not going to give BS a complete pass but one must consider the possibility that his hands are tied by ownership,the marketing people, and even Gardenhire (to some extent). In my view it is very clear that the Twins are far more interested in profit than they are in fielding a competitive team. And, we only have ourselves to blame, at least in part. We are drooling over the new park and preparing to flock like sheep (to an even greater degree that at present)to it's gates (and let's not forget who is really paying for those gates). Why buy a dog when the sheep tend themselves? Unfortunately, the few premier players we do have are viewed much more as marketing pieces than as the foundation of what could easily become a VERY dangerous baseball team. The crime is that they are in the process of wasting the talents of two (or three) of the finest players to ever pass this way. A crime for which, in my opinion, they should rot in hell for all eternity. Sorry to be so cranky.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 6:01 PM by B.W. McEvers Highlight this comment 28

BW,
I couldn't have said it any better myself...no need to apologize. I'm probably the oldest fart on here. And this team has been doing this shit to its fans since the 1960's. I remember myself saying I would never watch the Twins again after Billy Martin was fired. I said it again after Calvin let Killebrew go to KC - seeing him in a Royals uniform was like sticking a knife in the back of Twins fans. I said never again after he was too cheap to keep Carew and again Blyleven. The tradition has been carried on by the Pohlads. What's amazing is that Kirby Puckett stayed a Twin his entire (yet shortened) career. I am completely expecting to see the M&M boys gone after their respective contracts are up. And it will be as free agents. No point in actually trading them for something when you're content on not bringing them back, right Billy???!?!?!?!?!?!!?

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 29

Not to get too far off topic, but having a competitive team and a profitable one don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 6:14 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 30

Jim Souhan's excellent profile on Mauer should be required reading for all Twins fans --- ESPECIALLY the parts where M & M are commenting on the future. The part about waiting for the perfect storm to happen (again) should be taken VERY seriously. This IS NOT some whiny bloggers or commenters talking, it is the principals themselves! Now, I like Punto and all that but the fan has to come to a decision at some point. Do you want to chant Lewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww and watch some scrappy little utility infielder dive headfirst into the bag and call that baseball (in which case the Twins suffice) - or do you want to see championship caliber ball being played on a more regular basis (in which case you apparently need to switch teams). And again, I'm normally not nearly this cranky.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 7:03 PM by B.W. McEvers Highlight this comment 31

And it must be said that profitability follows winning, not the other way around.

Since the dark ages of the mid-90s, the Twins seem to have accepted the assumption that winning in the postseason is largely a function of things beyond their control. Thus, they have been building teams with an eye toward just getting to the postseason and hoping for the best when it happens.

But an argument can be made that, in order to then win in the postseason, a team needs a few players with afterburners (people who can say "climb on my back" and actually come through) on the roster. The '87 and '91 teams each had such characters. The recent teams have not.

But I am mindful that the trade market is insane, and GMs have to be careful not to screw their franchises for five years by making a couple of hopeful deals that do not work out as hoped. For example, grab Halladay in exchange for five top prospects and you could have big, unfillable holes two years from now.

All I can say is I'm glad I'm not an MLB GM.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 7:17 PM by Rick 32

The Twins I think are trading on the popularity of the outfield seating at the dome - the home run porch is very, very popular, and I think they believe that will continue at TF - and to an extent it will, but not for seats out of reach by home run balls, not at the prices the survey indicated.

By and large, Minnesotans are lower deck snobs. By that I mean that regardless of the event, people in this state tend to prefer lower deck seating to the extent that they'll sit in the lower deck regardless of whether a superior view of the game can could be had from upstairs. For instance, section 134 at the Dome offers views for baseball that are unwatchably horrendous, yet people still choose to sit there even when tickets in sections 220-229 offer superior views at lower prices. So I think the Twins have tapped into this phenomenon by planning to price the outfield seats comparable to or perhaps higher than the Terrace View, Skyline View, and Field View seats. Those Terrace View, Skyline View, and Field View seats, especially those closest to the plate, look like they'll offer pretty good sightlines. However history shows that people will still likely shoot for the outfield seats or even the field boxes which offer what appear to be direct views of the outfield thus requiring fans to turn their heads at pretty uncomfortable angles in order to see the infield action.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 8:39 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 33

Very well put Jorge. I've sat in Sec. 134 before, and then called for a couple recommendations on a good chiropractor.

At least at the Dome, I'm plenty happy to sit in the upper deck. And, at least for a while, I'll be happy to get into the View seats at TF...

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 8:47 PM by luke Highlight this comment 34

Jorge - I don't think this is unique to the Twins. I've never understood why most people would prefer to see a game from the edges of the outfield on the first level, rather than from seats in the infield from an upper deck when 98% percent of the action takes place on the infield.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 9:37 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 35

the 'new k' has a bud light party deck, and it is available to everyone regardless of where they sit for free, granted it does not provide the view of the bud deck at TF, it seems completely bazaar to me that they would charge for before, during(2 tickets), and after the game to hang out there, just sell the damn ticket by themselves or let everyone hang out up there

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 10:22 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 36

I don't know if this has been addressed. Twins to play Red Sox in opener on April 12th. Twins Season opener April 5th @ LAA. Click name for link.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 10:23 PM by jincr Highlight this comment 37

dirwin7 - the deck SRO tickets are for admission to see pre and/or post game entertainment, not just to "hang out". If you want to see the game there, I believe it's just the one admission (though that isn't clear).

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 10:37 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 38

Disappointing loss tonight...I am sure I was not the only one who could sense a Rangers' walk-off win tonight as soon as they tied it 3-3.

Posted on July 19, 2009 at 10:59 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 39

Anyone in Duluth go see the Target Field roadshow Friday? (see link)

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 01:25 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 40

the bud party deck isn't that big, so I don't know what kind of live entertainment they plan on charging for, it is the equivalent of an bar charging people to go onto their patio and listen to a no name cover band, I don't think this can last very long after the initial novelty has worn off

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 08:29 AM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 41

does anyone know where the survey is on their website, i cannot seem to find it

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 08:35 AM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 42

The party decks at Wrigley still seem to be going strong. And there are about a dozen of them compared to one at TF. Oh - and they are 200 to 400 feet further from the action. Dirwin - what is very long? I predict Party Deck tickets will be one of the toughest tickets to come by for at least 3 years - regardless of who is catching or playing first base for the Twins.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 08:37 AM by clublevelfan Highlight this comment 43

clublevelfan,

I think no matter what the during the game deck tickets will be a hot commodity, I don't think there's any doubt about that. but I have doubts about them charging admission for pre and post game entertainment up there, in my opinion you shouldn't have to leave and then buy another ticket for after the game, if anything once the game is over it should be free and they should leave the bar open, people would probably stay there and drink all night,

and also if you go to regular season cub games like I do atleast once a month, the rooftop decks are rarely full, in fact unless it's a big game, they are usually basically deserted except for a couple of them

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 08:43 AM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 44

what i think the twins should do is build a few rooftops on top of ramp b and charge ten bucks to hang out there all game, the views of the game would be pretty bad, but that's fine b/c the people that hang out on the rooftops are typically there to drink and socialize, the fact that there's a game going on in the background is a convenient reason to get together, this is seen at some of the wrigley decks, a couple are actually in such poor locations that I don't think you can see the batter

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 08:54 AM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 45

I have updated the pricing chart at the end of the article with the ranges people have seen in their surveys. The chart at the top of the article has not changed, and it appears that those are the highest prices anyone has seen.

If you take the survey (which is linked at the top of the article), please take notes on the prices you see and let us know. Thanks!

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 09:50 AM by Rick 46

Moose -

Can you ask if they plan on opening the Plaza before opening day? Might it even be open by this fall?

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 10:25 AM by ajndsu Highlight this comment 47

Seems like the Twins and Populous really dropped the ball on the viewing obstructions that the railings will/are causing.

During the seat selection process for TCF Bank Stadium, we were sent an email stating that there were a few rows in certin sections that had some minor viewing obstructions from the railings. They even sent a picture of the seating location and the railing obstruction from the virtual computer model.

Its too bad that it is only now coming to light.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 11:05 AM by Dust Highlight this comment 48

From the email from the U about the TCF Bank Stadium railing obstructions. In the email they sent actual pictures of the blocked view (Maybe Rick can post them for me)

TCF Bank Email:
Partially Obstructed View Seats
We do have a very limited number of seats that have partially obstructed views of the field due to railings. These seats are generally located in the upper level in rows 2 and 9. These seats are not available through the regular seat selection process. If you would like to discuss buying these partially obstructed view seats, please call the Gopher Points office at 1-800-UGOPHER. Due to continuing stadium construction, you will not be able to sit in these seats prior to selecting them.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 11:11 AM by Dust Highlight this comment 49

Very interesting about the railings. What a boner. You pay a $5/per seat PREMIUM to sit in the 1st row and the Twins don't even fully disclose that you may have a metal railing in your viewing angle depending on how tall you are. Buyer beware!!!!!

Rick,

I am curious if you can find out what land around TF that the United Companies (the Pohlads) controls versus what land that Hines Development (the Houston company that had their land taken via eminent domain) owns. I had heard that Hines still owns a lot of prime land surrounding the ballpark that would be juicy for further development (bars, restaurants, condos, hotels, retail, etc). A graphic would be excellent. I think this is an aspect of the ballpark that we have heard little about and has the potential to greatly impact the game experience (hopefully creating/developing a cool neighborhood vibe).

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 11:40 AM by Max Highlight this comment 50

Max,

I'm pretty sure that United Properties just owns the Ford Centre, and Hines still owns the rest of the immediate area surrounding T.F.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 51

Click my name for a map published by the Ballpark Authority early in the project. Beyond the ballpark land and Ford Centre, I don't think much has changed since then.

Then again, such transactions can be mysterious. So I'm making no promises that this is still the way things are.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 11:51 AM by Rick 52

Jorge, et. al. I agree 134 and the next couple sections down in the Dome are bad. I wonder if some of it is the Dome configuration though. Have you tried comparable sections on first base side? 116, 115, even 114 and 113 have much more favorable baseball angle views, making it more comfortable and the perception of being closer to the infield. Hopefully Target Field is set up so comparable sections are much better than 134 thru 137 in Dome. There is also a preference issue. Most people like midfield at football games, which makes sense, but I like end zone view. At the Dome for baseball I like variety. Upper infield, lower home or way down the line, as long as the angle is good. For example, sections 138 or 139 might be better in some ways than 135, if memory serves me right.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 12:33 PM by robin Highlight this comment 53

You are right robin, sections 116-113 are some of the best seats in the Metrodome. I always sit in those sections with my flex-40 plan.

I also like sections 138-139 in the left field corner as they are much better than sections 134-137.

I personally like being at field level in the outfield rather than upper deck behind home plate. Unless I can get seats in the first 10-12 rows of the upper deck, I will always get best available in lower reserve or home run porch. Anything above row 10 is just too high up for me.

I am sticking with first-base side seats in Target Field as I will be in section 102, row 14.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 1:04 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 54

Second on Max's request for a colored map showing who owns what properties that will be ripe for development near the new park.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 1:14 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 55

Hoping you saw my link to such a map above...

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 1:16 PM by Rick 56

I took the survey and took a lot of time under the section what i like best and least about TF, i def told them my thoughts that it is essential the neon has motion of sorts, i hope someone reads them seriously here are the q's I got as far as prices

Home Plate Box 50
Diamond Box 38
Field Box 29
Home Plate Terr 29
Home Plate View 20
Home Plate View 25
Field Terrace 20
Skyline view 25
Field view 10
skyline view 17
field view 15
home run porch 22
home run porch view 20
grandstand 20
LF bleachers 18
batters eye 23
overlook 26
pavillion 27
RF bleachers 20

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 1:28 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 57

didn't get to page 2 of the comments before that post, thanks Rick. i did a little research on the hennepin county interactive tax map and it looks like yours is still fairly accurate. So I'm assuming "Land Partners II" is Hines, but who is Duddy Limited Partnership? They own all the "Dock Street" land.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 1:50 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 58

dirwin7 - are you sure about those prices? The first 5 are the season ticket prices for the groups listed.

If the Twins price single game seats at season ticket prices, there will be an uproar.

You also listed 2 prices for Skyline View - 17 and 25 - did you get both?

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 1:51 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 59

Regarding land development - when I asked about that a few weeks ago, the answer from the Twins was that they understood that the development was going to be done by the land owners from the out in, meaning furthest away from the park in and that there were a number of projects in the planning stages, though we didn't get into any detail.

If I understood correctly, the only land the Pohlads owned that was going to be involved was the old Ford building. (As I previously mentioned, the Twins would like to see a floor in their devoted to a Hall of Fame)

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 1:54 PM by jfh Highlight this comment 60

jfh,
yeah the first 5 or so of the questions said basically 'these are the season ticket prices, single game prices are going to be a little more, at these prices(season ticket prices) how do you feel about purchasing different sections?" So you're right those would be the season ticket prices and not the single game prices. And yeah I did get both questions for the skyline view section, I thought that was interesting. I forgot

roof deck 28, 26, 24

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 2:06 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 61

From a February, 2007 article in City Pages:

"More than 20 years ago, Rich Pogin and Bruce Lambrecht, along with some 100 investors, began buying up vacant lots and other properties northwest of the Warehouse District. The idea then, Pogin says, was that there would be a huge explosion in residential housing downtown, and the duo eventually bought eight parcels of land, assessed by 2006 county tax records at $20.25 million, through their three companies—Land Partners II, Minikahda Mini Storage LTD, and Duddy Limited Partnership, which fall under the umbrella of Investment Management Inc."

Click my name for the whole article.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 62

Bellenotte is officially closed now, adding another vacancy to Block E, will be very interesting to see this area after Target Field opens.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 2:35 PM by Camden Highlight this comment 63

Thanks for the article link David, and Camden -- I was not a frequent visitor to Bellanotte but the disappointment is that for a while it was quite a success in the turd otherwise known as Block E. Unfortunately Block E is an urban planning disaster that I know has been discussed to the ends on other sites, and will probably continue to be a monumental disaster after the park opens and until it is torn down or entirely redesigned.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 3:15 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 64

I have dined only once at Bellanotte and was not impressed to say the least. The service was horrible and food was pathetic. And don't get me started on the early twenty somethings rolling in with their Mercedes, Escalades, and what not.

Hopefully now with Bellanotte out of there they will seriously start thinking of overhauling that area. With Target Center and now Target Field in that area, what a great location for a one of a kind Minnesota Sports Bar and Grill. Does anyone really go to NBA City?

Click my name for a story in Minnesota Monthly about Reinventing Block E. The article was published back in 2007.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 4:24 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 65

Robin - much agreed. I've been to plenty of my share of games at the Dome (haven't we all), and many of the first base side sections I have sat in. I think the best seat I had on that side was Section 114 Row 10 (which, because of the tunnel there is actually the front row).

Section 113 has been there since they "renovated" the Dome back in 1994, and I still have never sat there. 113 seems to me to also be a pretty good seat in an otherwise terrible ballpark.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 4:51 PM by luke Highlight this comment 66

I remember going to games at old Comsikey Park. Left field had those picnic tables that were at field level under the stands. There was nothing but a chain link fence between you and the left fieder. You could just plop yourself down at one of those tables and watch the game, no charge & concession stands right behind you. It was a pretty cool way to watch the game. I know that the CELL has the same kinda set up in right field. Does anybody know if you need to pay extra to sit at those tables? It would be nice if the Twins could do that with the left field wall, athough that may not be a possiblity. If they do, it would be nice if they didn't charge extra. Wait.....this is the year 2009, nothing like that will ever be free of charge again. Damn !

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 5:22 PM by JohnF Highlight this comment 67

The link does not work on the Twins website for me.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 5:39 PM by michael Highlight this comment 68

Jeff, the LAST thing this metro area needs is another sports bar! IMHO, Block E needs to be imploded right after the Dome. It's just not designed to be parceled up into boutiques or other unique places people would actually want to go to.

It would be a nice place to do a movie theater (with balcony and organ!) and maybe a cafeteria-like restaurant and/or greasy spoon. Downtown doesn't really have any of those (maybe Peter's but they market themselves as somewhat upscale).

Another thing this metro area needs is a QUALITY Indian restaurant. God, I miss Mysore Woodlands in Ann Arbor. Love the Cities, mind you, I grew up here. But for all the fantastic Vietnamese food we have (and it IS fantastic!) we really don't have a good, fresh, Indian food place.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 5:58 PM by David Highlight this comment 69

block E already has a nice 10-12 screen movie theater(cheap too). gahndi mahal (lake and minnehaha) has pretty good indian food.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 6:14 PM by nick Highlight this comment 70

Yes, I know about the Block E theater. But it needs to be something unique. A theater with an organ (showing classic silent films with accompaniment on a regular basis) has the potential to draw. I've seen it happen before.

I'll try Gahndi Mahal. So far everything I've tried tastes like it's been cooked ahead of time and warmed over for serving.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 6:22 PM by David (aka David) Highlight this comment 71

Please not to publish my cooking secrets.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 6:38 PM by Gahndi Mahal Highlight this comment 72

Ghandi Mahal is far and away the best indian food in town. It's always fresh and the service is impecable. Not too far from the light rail so catching a bite there before the game is certainly doable. Even though it is not a rush and eat type place whatsoever.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 9:00 PM by DeePee Highlight this comment 73

What Block E really needs is an interior hallway on the first floor, that runs between Hennepin and First Ave. It was built as a akyway trap to capture the people from City Center to Target Center.

The theater in Block E is not doing well. It is hidden up on the third floor. Only the ticket counter is on the skyway level. They need to blow out the cookie stand, and make a big lobby/concessions area on the Skyway level for the theater.

The pipe organ/classic movies theatre needs to be the Shubert.

Posted on July 20, 2009 at 9:03 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 74

considering how tonight's game went i just want send a giant F_U_C_K Y_O_U over to that tool billy smith. the twins don't need any legit bullpen help do they billy?! you stupid S.O.B.! what a wonderful GM you are.....

so pissed off right now!

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:05 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 75

ugh.......bullpen......i'm gonna stop here before i go too crazy

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:10 AM by BB Highlight this comment 76

the shubert??? sheesh i remember all the good theatres dt......10 at the world animal house at the academy/shubert and the blues brothers at the mann/pantages....elvis costello at the orpheum.....hmmm the skyway theatre sucked

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:11 AM by bw Highlight this comment 77

I want to know why the hell Blackburn was not pulled earlier? It wasn't just the bullpen, Blackburn had a terrible outing.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:18 AM by MATT Highlight this comment 78

hopefully many of you are sound asleep in Minnesota....What a total disaster in Oakland tonight....Complete collapse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:18 AM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 79

Unreal 7th inning. I left Coors Field thinking the Twins had the game well in hand. Got home just in time to watch the implosion.
These are the A's for goodness sake. Maybe Billy will finally realize we need some bullpen help.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:24 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 80

WOW, what a ridiculous ending!

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:40 AM by MATT Highlight this comment 81

Punto swings at ball 4. Cuddy gives hope with two outs, Kubel gets a free pass. Young is up. Really wild pitch. Cuddy safe at the plate, but called out. Disaster over. Twins lost. Sigh.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:41 AM by jfh Highlight this comment 82

Urrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........my stomach hurts.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:42 AM by Rick 83

a monkey could have made the correct call at the plate on cuddy. he was safe by a country F-ING MILE! the umpire is a jerk for not getting himself into the correct position to make a pivotal call at the plate and cost the twins a chance to tie and then possibly go on and win that steaming pile of dung game. if ever there should be a place in baseball for instant replay on "called out" plays it was tonight's final play of the game. the ump needs to be reprimanded for that major blown call and failing to get into position.

it is going to take me a couple hours to get to sleep tonight after this P.O.S.

here is the deal. i think i am done with the twins for a while until bill smith actually does the job he is paid to do and makes necessary trade moves. no more t.v. selling my tickets for a while. right now he is mocking a proud twins franchise, the twins players, gardenhire, rick anderson, and most importantly the twins fans with his stand-pat, stubborn attitude that we see at this time of season year-after-year from the twins front office. if you think otherwise you are insane. that point is not up for debate.

bill smith you say to the press that you don't want to make any necessary trades because you don't want to give up any of what you call the twins "top prospects"?! top prospects? where? your supposed top triple A prospects that you call up have almost never panned out. duensing? kepple(sp)? mijares? all blew the game tonight with a 7 run lead. dickey? he blew last night's game against texas. a knuckle ball relief pitcher?! mark grudzielanek?! nice pick ups there billy smith.

i will say it again billy smith.......F.U.C.K. Y.O.U. from a giant twins fan. you and your front office cronies are mocking all of us who support the twins with your blatant inactivity in the trade market and failing to "make the team" better as you like to say when giving your lame ass comments to the press. piss off.

rant over. i am hitting the pillow.

F.U.C.K.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 01:28 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 84

btw - sorry for cussing on your site rick. just "that pissed off" right now.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 01:48 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 85

I had a bad feeling when I went to bed last night, that I would wake up to this kind of news.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 05:19 AM by robin Highlight this comment 86

Wow - finally saw the replay, and that wasn't even close. On the up-side, 10 hours until my Target Field tour...

Moose

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 06:04 AM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 87

i want to thank kevin in az for being spot-on from the beginning regarding twins mgmt. i don't even need to check espn, i just get the twins results here on my favorite site. billy mcbutterpants needs to make a trade, that's clear, standing pat is not an option. i recall the twins having a similar meltdown game earlier this season in oakland. please don't be like the pirates and do nothing while thinking playing in a great ballpark is enough to appease your fanbase.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 08:19 AM by tim Highlight this comment 88

I went to bed last night thinking the game was over, but being a Twins fan and knowing things happen, I checked the score first thing after I woke up. Disappointing.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 08:25 AM by Andrew Highlight this comment 89

Going back to the discussion of names for transportation infrastructure, take a look at the link below for an estimation of how many people go to the wrong terminal at the airport.

It's not because they're named for people, it's because the signage stinks.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 08:39 AM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 90

I am like you,Andrew, I went to bed (apparantly before the disastrous 7-run inning by the A's) thinking the Twins had won the game, only waking this morning, hoping to see confirmation of a win, but shocked to see a loss. Ugh....

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 08:56 AM by Dan Highlight this comment 91

I don't care that Cuddy was safe at the plate and the ump missed the call, what the hell is he doing trying to score with only 1 out in the inning! 2nd and 3rd with one out and lets take our chances. Don't know if Cuddy went on his own or if Ulger sent him but damn...we learned that in little league folks!

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 09:03 AM by Eric Highlight this comment 92

i'm with betaband, i'm done with this team awhile, i need a nice healthy break to relax and get away from it. this team seems to have no energy and killer instinct at all to close out games, the pitching is awful, and i just can't do it right now.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 09:07 AM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 93

Sorry, there were 2 out during Cuddys play but still when was the last time you saw a player go from 2nd to home on a passed ball?!?

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 09:10 AM by Eric Highlight this comment 94

From the Twins website in reference to the Cuddy play at home: As for A's manager Bob Geren, he said that he didn't get a good look at the play.

"I saw that it was going to be close," Geren said. "Everyone was jumping up and down. I don't know. I didn't see it."

When a manager is quoted as saying he "didn't see it," we all know that that's baseball speak for "I know they made the wrong call but it worked in our benefit."

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 09:31 AM by DeePee Highlight this comment 95

Thanks for the link on the terminal names, Alex. That's actually a press release article that has been picked up by all the news services. Bad journalism, to say the least.

It does give me the opportunity to rant a bit (while trying to forget last night's indignity).

I reject every piece of the MAC's argument about the need for renaming the airport terminals. I've become convinced that there's something fishy going on here.

First, it is the traveler's responsibility to figure out which terminal to go to before hitting the road. Second, it's the airline's responsibility to make sure such information is available to the traveler. Third, numbers are no better than names if the signage doesn't include airline names. Fourth, the number who make a mistake may be "in the thousands" but it's still a very, very tiny fraction of the number of people flying in and out of these terminals.

And finally, it may be true that "no road directly connects the two terminals", but they are fully integrated with light rail. In the event that a traveler makes a mistake, the two terminals are essentially connected by a two-minute LRT ride (which certainly could be made free between terminals without much fuss) and a short (in airport terms) walk on each end.

Then there's this twisted piece of logic:

But spending $2.2 million to fix the sign problem has also caused some heartburn for locals, who wonder why the commission can't just add the airline names to the existing signs.

The commission says that would run afoul of state and federal guidelines for how much information can safely be packed onto a single sign that drivers are reading at highway speeds.

The commission's proposal to fix the problem would install new signs that list the airlines that depart from each terminal. The signs would drop the Lindbergh and Humphrey names entirely in favor of "Terminal 1" and "Terminal 2," although commission officials say the terminals would still retain their historic names.

The nine airlines flying into Lindbergh would be split over two signs, a measure that allays concerns about overcrowding the signs.

Here's the argument, extracted for your reasoning pleasure:

- Travelers do not know which terminal serves which airlines

- Signs on the road could direct travelers to the correct terminal

- Too much information on a sign is not allowed

- Splitting information across multiple signs is allowed

Therefore...

- We need to change the terminal names to numbers

Then there's this weird tidbit:

Many of the signs will be large, requiring strong supports to withstand wind loads and driving up the cost of the project. But Hogan pointed out that existing parking and concession fees will cover the cost.

Just what is different about these signs than you average freeway sign? I'm sure we have the technology to secure even very large signs.

It is true that other cities have multiple terminals which are more integrated than ours. The Humphrey seems like an afterthought because, well, it was an afterthought. Is the MAC making a play for some sort of expansion or integration?

What else could be going on here? Is this a stimulus project for 3M (or whoever makes the signs)? Is this just busy work for the MAC? Is this some sort of move to get Lindbergh's name off the terminal (for reasons that students of history know all too well)? Is this groundwork for a request to create a road or tram link between the terminals? Maybe even a monorail? Or is it perhaps setting the stage for expansion over at Humphrey?

This whole story borders on absurd comedy. But it smells like rats.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 09:46 AM by Rick 96

I'm confused by your conspiracy theory Rick -- the two terminals are already connected by the light rail, so I can't see a desire to put in a road or monorail (sorry Marge, the mob has spoken!)

All I know is that Minneapolis is a pretty big midwestern international hub (ie: lots of income for the county). And if you've flown to other countries where you may not speak the language, it's pretty nice to have some extremely clear signage. I don't think they're doing this sign proposal for the locals.

With that being said, I have a hard time believing there's not a simple, clever solution for this that doesn't cost over $2 Million. Word limit on signs? Beaurocracy and red tape. Hell, I'll make some kicka$$ signs in my basement for $1 M! But we want govt to run our healthcare too... hmmm....

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 09:58 AM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 97

I think the LRT trip between the two terminals is free.

I can see how erecting a couple of extra sign-holder-thingies like in that picture in the article would cost a good amount of money.

I do find it odd how worked up people are about this whole issue.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 09:58 AM by strategery Highlight this comment 98

Real fans don't "temporarily quit" on their teams because of front office futility. If that were true, the Cubs would have no fans.

You demand a trade but tell me, who is out there right now that can make the Twins better other than Toronto Roy and his fat wallet? And what team (other than Pittsburgh) out there is willing to take any of our leaky bullpen pitchers off of our hands?

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:10 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 99

The LRT is free between the terminals. I agree with both Rick and mplsgreg...I honestly don't think the signage needs to change. I think people should be responsible enough to research where they are to go. Along with that, if someone is international and cannot read the signage- they should not be driving. It is a law that you are not to drive if you cannot properly see or adhere to the conditions- including signage. Most int'l travelers are shuttled to/from the airport therefore are not driving.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:11 AM by Matt Highlight this comment 100

Ps- get Casilla off this team...same w/ half the bullpen. Pittsburgh has shown that they are looking to wheel and deal half their team so lets try to tap into Sanchez or Wilson.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM by Matt Highlight this comment 101

It bothers me because we, the public, are being spun on this. You can tell because the arguments don't make any sense (though they might seem to at first glance). $2 million seems a little steep to correct signage, but, whatever.

Just don't say it's about the terminal names when it's about something else. Or, don't say it's about something else when it's about getting Lindbergh's name off the terminal.

According to the minutes of the meeting, the issue was raised by Dennis Probst, a deputy executive directer (whatever that is), and objected to by some of the commissioners and Sun Country Airlines.

In a moment of sanity, someone at the meeting suggested having both the terminal name and a number on the signs. After reading these minutes, I'm more willing to accept that this is just busy work and nothing more.

Back to baseball...

I'm reading up on who is available out there, and not seeing any obvious moves for Smith to make which would improve the team. That's scary, but it may not be Smith's fault.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:23 AM by Rick 102

unlike the twins, the cubs have spent on top tier free agents, like soriano or traded for top tier talent, rich harden, it's not a valid comparison. our offseasons are so pathetic and useless we then spend every summer in desperation mode and weak temporary fixes are made.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:25 AM by tim Highlight this comment 103

I'm afraid THE TRUTH HURTS said it best. Until one of you clowns has a good suggestion, making a move for the sake of it is flat out wrong. Move to KC, Cleveland, Pitt, Cincy, Oakland, Seattle, etc, but I'll take my perinneal contending Twins. '87 and '91 will happen again!
As far as Cuddy, (Should't have gotten me started!) he is the worst baserunner in baseball. I got into a big argument with a clown at a Twins game after Cuddy tried to tag up and got thrown out by a mile in another Twins game earlier this year. How can a guy be such a horrible baserunner!! IDIOTIC!!!
Don't fault the bullpen or Billy for this one boys, It was Cuddy! AND don't tell me about how many hits he got or what a nice arm he has, he cost the Twins a chance to win the game, just like he regularily does with horrible baserunning decisions! DONE!
Go back to the dome boys and use your tix, just boo the H.E.L.L. out of Cuddy!

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:27 AM by Locker Highlight this comment 104

butt hurts,

me herd we used to have this wun guy namd joehand santa-ana, do u thinke we coud get him bak? he help out our dogpen no? u so smart!

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:28 AM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 105

Rick agrees: the pickings are slim. Our boys need to step up. That's all there is to it. Otherwise it's going to be a long August and September.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:29 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 106

johnF, as of 2 years ago, the cell did not charge for entrance to the r field patio, but you did have to get a number. imo, it's a horrible spot to watch the game. we went down there thinking it would be so sweet to be that close. after one inning, we went up to our ticketed upper deck seats.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:43 AM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 107

They blow a 10 run lead and we're suppose to blame the loss on Cuddy rather than pitching?

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:47 AM by Andy Highlight this comment 108

spoken like true gosh shucks twins fans, the team can do no wrong in your eyes and golly gee there isn't a decent trade out there and we're just so darn happy to have a team. why even have a general manager making six figures? at this point i'd like to see mauer leave for a big market team just to change the mindset. our great players want to win championships not just compete for the division every now and then when the division is down.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:48 AM by tim Highlight this comment 109

Woah, Rick.

They're talking about changing the signage. Now it just says Lindberg Terminal or Humphrey Terminal. It doesn't tell you what airlines serve those terminals. They're talking about adding that information.

Just about every other airport in the world (if they have multiple terminals like this) have signage telling you which one to go to in advance.

There's a reason they dropped the colored concourses, too. This is an international airport. "Humphrey" and "Lindbergh" don't translate well to international travelers. 1 and 2 are far more universal indicators. And using those designators doesn't mean getting rid of the names - they can and will coexist.

The other issue is one of design. I struggle to think of another airport where the two terminals are separated as much as MSP's terminals are. The reason it's a problem is that it's hard to get between the terminals, even with the LRT connection. If you go to the wrong one, you might very well miss your flight.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:50 AM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 110

Yes, it must be said that last night's embarrassing loss can't be blamed on either Cuddyer, Ullger, the umpire, or Bill Smith.

The bullpen needs to step up. No reinforcements are coming. Deal with it.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:58 AM by Rick 111

Read on, Alex. Fixing the signage is what I think they MUST do. Renaming the terminals is a straw man.

Add terminal numbers if that helps ("Terminal 1 - Lindbergh"), but adding the names of the airlines is the real solution. Changing terminal names doesn't solve anything.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 11:01 AM by Rick 112

Oh, I forgot to mention that the middle infield needs to step up at the plate. And the starting pitching needs to work on stamina. And Ullger needs some seasoning.

What am I missing? Oh, yeah, the playoffs.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 11:02 AM by Rick 113

it's a complete waste of 2 million dollars, this was never even an issue til someone decided they'd make it an issue, rick is right, it smells really fishy, i would think that some co. is going to be getting a huge windfall from this, and it just seems ridiculous

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 11:02 AM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 114

Gotta agree with Locker. Lots of people on this site and other Twins blogs offering no suggestions for potential trades.

Here are some players that could be available if the Twins give up a few prospects not named Aaron Hicks.

Relievers: George Sherrill, David Weathers, Francisco Cordero, John Grabow, Chad Qualls, or Arthur Rhodes. Plus a few more that I can't think of right now.

I'd love to see the Twins snag Sherrill from Baltimore. He's been very effective as a closer the past two seasons, and he could really shine as a lefty set up man for Nathan. Good control and he strikes out a batter per inning. Problem is, Sherrill's value is probably at an all-time high so we'd have to give up a lot.

Orlando Cabrera hasn't been mentioned much in trade rumors, but I think he would be a good fit for the Twins. Harris would start at 2B, with Grudzeldalonick, Casilla, and Punto coming off the bench where they belong.

There's no chance we get Roy Halladay, Matt Holliday, or Cliff Lee. Although I would love to see the Twins buy low on Matt Holliday. It's too bad Delmon Young has little to no value. I doubt Billy Beane would accept Delmon plus Casilla and a couple of prospects for Holliday.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 11:19 AM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 115

I have a trip next week in which I am flying AirTran. Any information referring to the Humphrey Terminal is nowhere to be found on the confirmation. I had to dig deep on their website to find any reference to the Humphrey Terminal.

I agree that people need to take responsibility, but Minneapolis is one of very few (if any) top 10 airports in the country that do not have lists of airlines and their terminal assignments. I agree with Rick that the whole "1,2" issue is a straw man and not a root cause of the real problem.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 11:34 AM by ajndsu Highlight this comment 116

I've got a solution that the Twins and many fans won't go for. Gardenhire needs to go. The team is 47-46, but should be at least 49-44 according to baseball-reference.

moreover, he's got the managerial yips everytime the team plays the sox/yankees or gets to the playoffs. this team should have been able to win the whole thing at least once this decade, but gardy can't get it done. his unbending loyalty to players like him (decent fielding, no stick infielders who "hustle")... think Punto, Harris, Buscher, Tolbert, Luis Rodriguez, Chris Gomez, Juan Castro, Terry Tiffee...

I've been watching Ken Burns Baseball lately... and a quote from Connie Mack stuck with me "I'd rather be competitive but come up short every year... that way you keep the crowds in the stands, but don't have to pay the champions, it's great for business"

I get the feeling... that's the Twins mentality.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 11:40 AM by CJ Highlight this comment 117

I guess to me $2MM doesn't seem all that outrageous - the signs need to list a lot of information and you're probably going to need them going each way on 494 and each way on 5. $2MM ain't what it used to be.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 11:47 AM by strategery Highlight this comment 118

Connie Mack is absolutely right when it comes to the business of baseball. That and branding/marketing play a huge role. Again I go back to the Cubs. Haven't won in a century. Still the place sells out. Why? They're loosely competitive each year, and they've created a strong brand. Cubs baseball: fun, laid-back, "loveable" ... that sells as well as the product on the field. "Loveable Losers." Boston did a similar thing with "Red Sox Nation." The branding compelled New Englanders to be a part of something despite the fact the team hadn't won the Series in almost a century. Can "Twins Territory" + competitiveness do the same thing??

Winning isn't everything. It's not even the only thing. Not anymore. Not that it ever has been.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 11:56 AM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 119

2M doesn't buy you much anymore, and there's probably at least a few dozen signs that need to be changed or added. For the sake of tying this detoured conversation back to the ballpark, strategery does have a point. I can't recall, what is the cost again for the 5th street "You can't learn how to make beautiful frescos, they just come naturally to people like me with divine talent" guy to slap up some concrete casts?

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:01 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 120

Moose: Are you going to try to get a look at the railings? Besides upper deck I'm interested if there is obstruction on lower level, specifically first row where diamond box and home plate box is separated from dugout box sections on third base side, e.g., 120, 121 etc., on 3rd base side or 107, 108 on the first base side.
I don't know anything about construction. Are those wooden-looking "rails" a temporary construction thing, placeholder or something, which disappear when the metal rails are installed? Wow, i didn't realize the lead was 10 runs last night.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:36 PM by robin Highlight this comment 121

22 signs=$100,000/sign, it just seems like a lot of dough

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 12:56 PM by dirwin7 Highlight this comment 122

There are a lot of problems with the Twins, but I do not believe by any means is it Gardenhire. My only issue with Gardy is that they give him these b.s. 2 year contracts instead of the long term contract he deserves. I have been hearing a lot of griping about him lately on the local radio call in shows and I think it's ridiculous. Do you have any idea how quickly another team would love to grab him in an instant if we fired him. Even if we did get a new manager do you honestly believe they would get better from this team then he does. It's not like the roster just miraculously changes when you hire a new manager. Year after year we either win the AL North or contend right to the very last day, and this is in spite of poor ownership, not because of it. Ownership that's willing to spend $ or a new general manager sure, but a new manager is ridiculous. Ever since Terry Ryan stepped down Bill Smith took his place I've been wary, and I've yet to see him make a move that has really impressed me. I think a trade for Freddy Sanchez would be a huge step in the right direction for this team going into the postseason solidifying the infield and giving a huge boost to the offense rather than Casilla and his bi-polar playing. To sum it up, Gardenhire is NOT the problem and deserves a lot more appreciation.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:05 PM by Hebrew Hammer Highlight this comment 123

Plenty of ideas on potential trades at battleyoutailoff.com. As for last night BOTH teams were horrible and it was literally minor leauge ump that blew the call. Your just stupid to blame cuddy when he was clearly safe. Twins were screwed out of a tie and full opportunities to win that the A's got. I'm dreaming but it would be nice to see the ump demoted and told to finish the game as a double header.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:07 PM by Camden Highlight this comment 124

Alright this is comical, on the Twins ballpark page they have moved their sights and sounds from the main box on the upper right side and now have a facebook page that you can, "Add your own photos to out galleries by uploading them to our official page on Facebook!". Hm...so we're supposed to upload the pictures that we weren't supposed to take of your ballpark?

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:09 PM by Eric Highlight this comment 125

I'm not thrilled with the way Billy Smith is running the team, but he's just following the model that Terry Ryan set and that the Pohlad kids force him to honor.

- Build from within. The core of the team should be home grown.

- All outside signings are guys who either are a couple of years past their prime or are younger guys that hopefully will improve. Signing marginal guys at rock bottom prices and Rule 5 players is also acceptable and encouraged.

- Spend big only to retain our own players, never to bring in an outside star, but be prepared to let of our own few guys slip away if the circumstances warrant.

- All trades of any significance are made during the off season, never during the season. It's okay to ship out a minor leaguer or a utility guy for a marginal pitcher or so-so power hitter, but not to ship out minor league assets for a superstar in his prime as a rent-a-player before he hit the free agency market. Sacrificing the future for the present is always a no-no.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:44 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 126

Trading for Shannon Stewart midseason was a huge success so I don't know why we can't do something like that again. What did we even give up in that trade? I still really think we should have signed Adam Dunn in the offseason as our DH, and why the F**K did we not sign Orlando Hudson? He was on the market forever and we really need a true 2nd baseman. As a Mets fan I knew signing Luis Ayala was a huge mistake the second it happened. He was in our bullpen last year and sucked, just like he did for the Nationals. I can't believe he thought he was set up man material.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:49 PM by Hebrew Hammer Highlight this comment 127

I forgot about Shannon. That was a smart deal, but it's hard to think of many other major mid-season trades during this run that started in 2001.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:53 PM by Jorge Highlight this comment 128

CJ, I just read your comment. Is Gardenhire perfect? Heck no, he puts gets too feelgood about some of our worse players. You put it on Billy Smith to even give Gardy that option though. The biggest thing is what do you do if he's gone? Who do you replace him with? It's not exactly easy to replace a top-10 manager. I guarantee if Gardy get fired someone else will too just so they can hire Ron.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:53 PM by Camden Highlight this comment 129

I'd say we're pretty much nailing the Twins' front office philosophy. Perhaps Rick could combine these into a formal document we could send to DSP, along with a Twins Fans Bill of Rights. Any thoughts on what we could include on that?

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:57 PM by The Truth Hurts Highlight this comment 130

Hebrew Hammer:

The Twins traded switch hitting Bobby Kielty to Toronto for Stewart.

Dunn wasn't gonna happen because you have an outstanding option already in the organization (and who I might add has proven his worth and started to show that his minor league dominance was no fluke) in Jason Kubel.

Hindsight is 20/20 on the O-Dawg. He is obviously a tremendous player both in the field (multiple gold glove winner) and at the dish. I personally couldn't believe how long he sat on the FA market last winter before finally settling with the Dodgers. Teams were obviously scared away by him coming off wrist surgery. In retrospect (and many would have said this at THE time excluding those in the Twins Front Office) giving Little Nicky Punto a 2 yr/8.5M deal was not very smart. Look how the free agent market cooled and all the guys who had to settle for way less money as Spring Training approached.

10 days til the deadline. The Twins are in the hunt no matter how depressing the last 2 nights have been. I know the Twins are gonna be flush with cash next season. Absolutely no reason they can't take on some salary here at the deadline while also extending Baby Jesus in the offseason. I wouldn't bet the farm on an IMPACT trade deadline deal. History says it won't happen.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 1:59 PM by Max Highlight this comment 131

Hebrew Hammer,

I'm glad they didn't get Dunn in the offseason because we have Jason Kubel and his .953 OPS for a fraction of Dunn's price.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 2:09 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 132

Have the Twins released any schematics/drawings of the Light Rail platform and pedestrian crossings on 5th Street? I'm sure this concern has been raised many times, but will the perceived difficulty of crossing 5th Street to the ballpark hamper any development of restaurants/bars on the east side of Target Field?

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 2:32 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 133

I think Dunn's combination of walks and home runs would have been a boon for this Twins lineup. I would rather have Kubel as a regular outfielder than Delmon Young, and then have Dunn as the DH, or by signing Dunn it gives you trade possibilities to strengthen other areas. Either way I still think it would have been a great signing but that's just me. Like I said before though Freddy Sanchez is the name I want in the Twins lineup by the trade deadline. Our middle infield has been in a state of flux all season, I think an all star second baseman like him would provide some great stability for the lineup. Personally I love having Punto on the team, but he's being used wrong. He is a PERFECT late inning defense utility player who you can't help but admire for his all out scrappy play. What he should not be is a starting infielder. A team with a better lineup would absolutely love to have a guy like Punto that gives his all every time he's out there.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 2:36 PM by Hebrew Hammer Highlight this comment 134

Fred, this is a poorly designed cluster in an otherwise gem of a ballpark. I don't know if they didn't communicate with MNDOT or what. A simple elevated crossing would have been brilliant to avoid people getting smashed by train cars. I don't know why the platform is in the middle, there's only one direction it can go. Wouldn't it have made sense (at least for now) to make the platform right off the sidewalk so you don't have to cross the tracks? Defintely. Instead they dealt with the problem by putting in all sorts of signs and flashing lights that no one will notice when 5000 people come pouring out of that exit to try and get on the LRT. They may have well put up a giant barbed wire fence.

You know, now that I think about it this would have been the ideal side of the park for that dumb skywalk, not out near the plaza on 7th.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 2:43 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 135

Fred,

The LRT platform is already there for everyone to see. Its design is curious in many ways, partly because of what happened with the bridge on which it sits.

It is hard to understand why only HALF of the Fifth Street bridge was flattened when it would have been cheaper to do the whole thing now, understanding that whatever is built (if anything) on the other side will probably require that.

But it comes down to the city of Minneapolis being unwilling to support the ballpark project with the funding it would have required to flatten the other half at the same time. This was due to political considerations and little else. They will now have to pay the more expensive cost of flattening the other half at some point in the next few years.

It only makes a difference because a bunch of LRT platform options would have been opened up if the entire bridge had been flattened. In fact, the long-term plan for that station is to eventually move it to the other side of the bridge! (That may help explain why the current design is so, if you'll pardon the expression, pedestrian.)

My prediction is that within Target Field's first decade, the entire Fifth Street configuration will be changed radically. That is unless the economy (or other forces) conspire to keep that land a surface parking lot.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 3:01 PM by Rick 136

Rick-

Thanks. I've seen the pictures and have driven past the station (although, it's been a little while). I guess my main concern is that if and when someone DOES decide to develop that surface lot on the other side of 5th Street into Condos or Bars or something like that....what would be the best route for the fans to cross 5th Street. Do you think fans would be able to access the ballpark underneath 5th Street and into Ballpark Station? Would there have to be a major redesign of 5th Street as a whole?

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 3:18 PM by Fred Highlight this comment 137

Underneath Fifth Street is a whole bunch of ballpark infrastructure, plus access to the storage tunnel for Northstar trains (which is actually within the ballpark footprint). Underneath Fifth is not really an option for anything without major configuration changes.

Crossing Fifth on opening day will only be possible at either corner, and there will likely be Metro Transit folks there (like at the Metrodome) to make sure people cross only when and where they are allowed.

What happens down the road will be highly dependent on what is built. The talk for a long time has been about a tall condo development, but there are also schemes out there for a multi-modal transportation hub.

The concern is valid. That will be a highly-congested area after games (assuming current assumptions about how people will get there and where they'll park are accurate).

No good answers on the horizon right now.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 3:26 PM by Rick 138

I thought I read that the sidewalk along the ballpark is configured to allow LRT cars to load/unload directly onto the ballpark sidewalk, instead of just the center island.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 3:53 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 139

Speaking of underneath 5th street - Is that where vehicles such as fire trucks, ambulances, and construction equipment will access the playing field via the hydraulic lift bleacher section?

I have always wondered where the access is to that "garage door" under the bleachers.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 4:01 PM by Mike Highlight this comment 140

BTW: If anyone wants a good laugh, go to the Twins site and on the front page check out the mug shot for Oakland's starter Dallas Braden. Classic. West Side Gangster!!!

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 4:19 PM by Max Highlight this comment 141

David_Mpls,

You read someone's wishful thinking on that. The platform only loads and unloads from the middle.

Mike,

If you approach the ballpark from Washington on Third Avenue, you will see signs about two blocks north of the park which direct construction vehicles to ballpark access via the surface parking lots. This access is then through the opening you mentioned in the left field bleachers. I believe this will be the access for the groundskeepers as well.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM by Rick 142

Does anybody know whether the Flex 40 ticket plans will return for next season?
I emailed PJ Williams at the Twins today about season tickets for next year. I certainly can't afford a full plan, but I might consider a Flex 40 if it's available.
He informed me (this was before the thought dawned on me about Flex 40) that there will be 20-game plans as low as $200. 20 games is alot of baseball (1/4 of a season)...but I can always eBay some tickets too...

Or, all of us on this blog could form a season ticket group and distribute amongst each other...lol.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 5:11 PM by luke Highlight this comment 143

I believe they decided to do Flex 40 even though their literature originally said they wouldn't.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 5:22 PM by robin Highlight this comment 144

Actually, I just got an email back from Williams.
Apparently, any Flex 40 holders prior to April 6 of this year will be "grandfathered" in, and will be eligible for the same package at TF. Any new STH's that come on board, which I'll probably be in that category, Flex 40 will not be available to them at TF :(.

He also informed me that most of their current STH's are settled in at TF, and the new campaign should start soon.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 5:29 PM by luke Highlight this comment 145

Yeah, I wonder if they're concerned about orders so far.
Anyone who doesn't mind full season and three seats could pick some real nice ones without even having had season tickets in the Dome.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 8:06 PM by robin Highlight this comment 146

Rick - check your e-mail

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 9:50 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 147

So how was it Moose? For either you or jfh, or anyone that knows. What's the total number of seats sold to season ticket holders this year, not Full-Season Equivalents, but actual number of seats sold. I'm curious as to opening day, when they will have to cram us all into the park.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:07 PM by Camden Highlight this comment 148

oooh... moose, that's a very exciting 4 word post... hope the tour went well.

Posted on July 21, 2009 at 10:29 PM by CJ Highlight this comment 149


This page was last modified on July 20, 2009.



"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3045 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.


Click to enlarge. (Photo by Tyler Wycoff)



Yankee Stadium






Looking through it, you can see the outfield pavilion (upper deck at least).



"I've never seen them do that before," said a Metropolitan Club waiter as I snapped this picture.









Awesome seat. Awesome sun. Awesome hitter. (Photo by Tony Voda, courtesy Jared Wieseler)



They can put a camera just about anywhere. (Photo by Jeff Ewer)












Seville's certainly will benefit from 81 games a year played about a block away! (When I walked by on this day, the place looked deserted, but I stand corrected!)



A seating bowl comes into focus. Note that the netting has been installed on the foul pole. (Field Box)



10 years ago, Bruce Lambrecht looked at this land and thought, "Why NOT a ballpark here?" It took a long time before anybody else saw the same potential.



The LRT station, sitting in a brand new urban canyon, takes shape.



Noah is checking out the ample leg room and truly exemplary sight lines.



A little higher angle shows how the two stations are close to one another but distinctly separate. The oval, glass-enclosed area is the entrance from the Northstar platform below into the ballpark. The LRT platform is comparable to the other stations along that route.



Concept drawing for the fan/player appreciation wall. (Click to enlarge.)



As mentioned earlier, one of the best climate-controlled views of construction is from the 7th floor elevator lobby in the A ramp. (That's Noah getting his first glimpse of the new ballpark.)






Many people will approace the park from this direction and it's a pretty great first glimpse. It features all the design elements in modestly condensed form, and still manages to look like a ballpark (instead of something else).



Beams connecting the plaza to the Target Center walkway






Target Headquarters



Look familiar? Unfortunately, just adding little balconies with cool angles will not offset the pervading ugliness.



Harmon is visible (barely) at the very center of the crowd.






The gate has grown a row of sponsorship



Click to enlarge. (Photo by Jared Wieseler)






The Puckett Atrium



Photo by Tyler Wycoff






Staircase entrance. You cannot miss them.



How many times did we water down our field as kids? More times than we played games, that's for sure!



Home Plate Terrace -- really great seats; maybe my personal, budget-based favorite



Looking up toward Seventh Street.



A cross section of the field construction. (Click to enlarge.)



Such promise. (Click to enlarge.)



Killebrew's mammoth shot on June 3, 1967 is currently memorialized on a wall at the Mall of America



This maze of scaffolding is something you'll probably never see again.









Here's one big problem with a retractable roof: completely terrible seating in left. These scant few seats would have been tucked under the track. No sunshine, no open concourse, it was a terribly kludgy idea. With some hindsight, it's very clear that adding a retractable roof on this small site would have required compromises which would have just been too extensive to tolerate. Without it, the design was free to grow into something much more memorable.



Walkway overview



Dome, what have you taken from us?



From the roof of the B ramp, you can see just how futile it will be to get a glimpse of the action.








Glossary

BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis
 


(1993)
 


First Edition (1992)
 


Second Edition (2006)
 


(2008)
 

Selected Bibliography - Surveys
 


(1975)
 


Second Edition (1987)
 


Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title
(2000)
 


(2000, large coffee table)
 


Original edition (2000, round)
 


Revised edition (2006, round)
 


(2001, medium coffee table)
 


(2002, small coffee table)
 


(2003, medium coffee table)
 


(2004, very large coffee table)
 


(2006, very large coffee table)
 


Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)
 

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia
 


(1992)
 


Book and six ballpark miniatures
(2004)
 

Complete Bibliography

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