BallparkMagic.com
Next game at Target Field: White Sox at Twins
Wishful Fields Archive    Target Field History    Theme: Login    Cart (Empty)

Plaza-Walking

November 16, 2008 12:35 PM

Our tour continues with some steps out onto the plaza through the Killebrew gate:

PB040249plaza.jpg

The changes to be seen here are incremental, and won't seem to be much of a surprise if you follow the webcam (since it's almost 100% visible there at all times).

But what you cannot see is that the presence of Target as naming partner has made a very large difference on how the plaza will be progressing from this point.

First, let's go out on a ledge:

PB040260plaza.jpg

That's the view up Sixth Street just off the edge of the existing plaza. What is to come here will make a huge difference in how the ballpark is integrated with downtown.

What I did not realize, but learned on my tour, is that Sixth Street will give up a whole lane of traffic to the plaza extension. So instead of just ending in a staircase, or even just snuggling up to Target Center, the plaza will actually be somewhat expansive as it makes its way up to First Avenue.

What's more, the entrance will apparently feature the old Met Stadium flag pole!

At this point I have not seen any concept drawings of how the plaza will meet the street, but I've heard from all involved that the flagpole deal is in the works. (For the benefit of new visitors, nabbing the Twins' original flagpole from the American Legion in Richfield was my idea.)

Now we'll turn around and look back toward the ballpark:

PB040261plaza.jpg

At first glance this may seem somewhat disconcerting. I mean, what the hell is that skyway doing blocking the incredible view of the ballpark?

I think there are some people involved in the process who might want to see it disappear in the long-term. But right now it actually serves as a rather nifty gateway. Just step beneath it and...

PB040263plaza.jpg

...ahhh. There it is.

You can see enough of the park as you approach on Sixth Street to whet your appetite, then you really get a big payoff as you emerge from beneath the offending skyway.

Just for reference, here's how the skyway and plaza interact, as seen from the roof of Target Center:

P9100064a.jpg

Let me wax nostalgic for a moment about a couple of concept drawings from long, long ago which originally tweaked my hopes about a new ballpark.

sp_northquad2.jpg

An early concept for St. Paul.

These come from the era when St. Paul was in the running, and I collected them from the coverage at that time. Unfortunately, I was never able to find out either who commissioned them or who drew them.

But they show a downtown ballpark with a plaza and spectacular pedestrian gateway. One even shows the sidewalk running along the center field fence with the urban street grid unaltered. I remember thinking at the time, "That's pretty darn cool, but it will never happen in a million years."

I bring them back now because I'm realizing that, even though these weren't an official part of this process, the coolest parts of these drawings have found their way into Target Field. Yep, we're that lucky.

(You can see more of the earlier failed plans and concept drawings, along with my very first coverage of the Target Field location when it was just known as the "Warehouse District Alternative" back in 2001, by clicking here.)

sp_northquad1.jpg

Do you know who did this drawing? If so, please tell me so I can give them proper credit.

Now back to our current reality...

As you pass under the skyway, look to your immediate right for a bit of house-keeping:

PB040255plaza.jpg

There will be an entrance right there to the B ramp from the plaza level, as well as steps up to the skyway. These are essential connections.

As an aside, there is a very large emergency exit tower located right where the plaza terminates at Seventh Street and Second Avenue (the other side of Target Center). There is some hope that this will one day be another entrance to the skyway after games:

P8190200a.jpg

(As a further aside, click the above image to see what that exact same view looked like almost a century earlier. You may be interested to know that for decades the forerunner to today's Farmer's Market, then known as the "City Market", was located on the same block where the plaza now sits. Now, if you're really interested in the history, go up and click on that skyway-gateway picture for an identical comparison. And I've got a few more of these still in my back pocket for another time.)

Walk forward on the plaza toward the ballpark and then turn back to see the city:

PB040265plaza.jpg

A couple of things to note here. First, previous renderings have always shown banners hanging from the B ramp as a sort of pseudo-disguise. Personally, I've always been hoping that the Twins would resurrect the tradition of a gigantic schedule like the one they used to paint on the side of the WCCO building.

But it sounds like beautifying the plaza has been taken to a new level with the introduction of the "Target Field" name. There are currently concepts being considered for a gigantic work of public art which could potentially cover the ramp completely (or at least some portion of it). More details on this are forthcoming since nothing is official just yet.

Additionally, the model and renderings have always shown trees filling these planters. That turns out to have been something of wishful thinking based, in part, on the rather shallow depth of the plaza. Newer concepts actually are still living plants, but not trees exactly. And while I have not seen any drawings, the idea really does sound like an improvement.

Now, here are a few more photos and notes from the plaza tour.

PB040273plaza.jpg


PB040274plaza.jpg


PB040275plaza.jpg

I was surprised at how close those upper deck seats seem. From the plaza, you feel like you can reach out and touch them. It really adds to the impression of overall compactness.


PB040278plaza.jpg


PB040279plaza.jpg

This is where the main ticket office will be.


PB040280plaza.jpg

Apparently, there will be public restrooms accessible directly from the plaza.


PB040281plaza.jpg


PB040253plaza.jpg

That's all I have time for tonight, but there are still pictures coming from the tour of the concourses, the admin building, and the steel work on the outfield stands. Plus, I hope to get down again next week for some fresh looks.

As always, thanks for stopping by!

Comments


To utilized enhanced comment features, please enable cookies in your browser.

thanks rick! great work as always. man, do i hate the multi foods tower. it really is too bad that its location has to somewhat ruin what would be an other wise pristine view of beautiful wells fargo tower. oh well, what can you do.....

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 01:27 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 1

great update!

went to willams arena last night for the game and TCF stadium is a monster!!! its so fricken hugelooks 3 times the size of TF... it looks pretty good and with all of the sports arenas/stadiums all within a block it really will add the the big ten feel!....(except the baseball field)

thanks for the idea Kev, the boy had a blast last night!

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 09:50 AM by mazaratirck Highlight this comment 2

Thanks for the update Rick, you answered a lot of questions. It's nice having some light shed on the 6th street plaza link, but I'm lookin forward to uncovering the rest of that mystery.

I wish they'd blow up the metrodome as soon as the Twins left. It would be neat to use some of the old teflon roof for banners on the side of the garage.... or something.

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM by haasertime Highlight this comment 3

I would like to see that rock airlifted over the metrodome and dropped right on top. The dome pops and the rock is back in its rightful place where it never should have been removed to build that toilet.

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 1:44 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 4

Kevin - nice idea...lol. what would the Vikings do then?
mazaratirick - of course TCF Stadium is three times the size of TF. They had more space to work with, and they're playing football there!

not sure about this comment: "I think there are some people involved in the process who might want to see it disappear in the long-term. But right now it actually serves as a rather nifty gateway. Just step beneath it and..." personally i hope they dont get rid of the skyway. if in fact they do have Twins Fest at Target Center - when its 46 below zero...those skyways will be nice.

and will create a very photogenic shot of the ballpark when it's out of commission for the winter.

so rick, are you planning on doing one of these when the Vikings build their stadium? you've done an awesome job.

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 3:15 PM by luke Highlight this comment 5

luke, after the vikings' effort in the 2nd half today, they should be inside the dome when the boulder is dropped.

after what AP did last weekend, no don't hear his name ONCE during the last 2 offensive series. Childress needs to go, YESTERDAY!

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 3:19 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 6

thanks luke, i was confused i thought tcf stadium was built for curling...

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 3:58 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 7

Another rough football weekend for Minnesota...both the Vikings and Gophers were leading at halftime, to only fall into disappointment in the second half.

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 3:59 PM by Mike Brumley Highlight this comment 8

Luke,

I wasn't aware that TFC Bank Stadium was being built for football, thanks for the clarification!

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 4:03 PM by Justin - Blaine Highlight this comment 9

correction from previous post...TCF Bank Stadium

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 4:04 PM by Justin - Blaine Highlight this comment 10

The one concern I have about the plaza is the massive bottle neck near the Target Center. Depending on the size of the crowds it could take a long time to get all the way to 1st ave.

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 10:43 PM by Andrew Highlight this comment 11

andrew wrote: "The one concern I have about the plaza is the massive bottle neck near the Target Center. Depending on the size of the crowds it could take a long time to get all the way to 1st ave."

oh no! you might have to interact with some fellow human beings for a little while. how horrible!

sorry couldn't resist. just breakin' your balls man, just breakin' your balls......it's late

Posted on November 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 12

Luke,

Those skyways would certainly not go away unless there were an alternate connection created between those buildings.

That could be anything from simple rerouted skyway connections to, um, teleportation.

In other words, it's just futuristic mumbo jumbo at this point.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 01:12 AM by Rick 13

Andrew,

There are models in use which estimate how many patrons might go which direction at the end of a game.

You'll be happy to know that a large percentage will likely either ride the trains or jump back in their cars parked in the A, B or C ramps.

Of those who walk, they will be split between the various directions. Even those which will be going back downtown will be split between the Target Center plaza exit and the Seventh & Second plaza exit.

There may still be crowds, of course, but you probably don't have to worry about 40,000 people all trying to get out that one little exit at the same time!

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 01:16 AM by Rick 14

Thanks Rick. I'm loving the photo tour.

I have to say I'm bummed about the trees. I really liked how they softened the plaza and made a pleasant entry way...and also how they would reflect the seasons. Can you provide any further details as to the new plantings?

Otherwise, I love the plaza. I love how it's wonderfully integrated, open, and connects with down town.

Thanks for your wonderful work.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 08:31 AM by Dale Highlight this comment 15

Without trees, I'd like to see some sort of trellis or other structure that could be green with vines and other plantings, yet still tall enough to visually break up the space and provide some shade. Green is key, as that plaza needs some plants to soften it up a bit.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 08:49 AM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 16

This morning there were tons of welders working on the center field and left field steel structure - seemed like more than usual. I wondered if Mortenson isn't "picking up the pace" before it gets colder and more difficult to work outside. (?)

The Twins have a pretty unique opportunity if they are given carte blanche to cover the parking ramp wall as they see fit. Since Target is kicking in, they'll have the cash to do something cool and "iconic". We've been debating what the "ICON" of this park is that it will be known for...this give the Twinks another opportunity.

Nice pics, Rick.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 09:33 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 17

can you see homeplate from inside the 6th street skyway?

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 11:34 AM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 18

Update from the ballpark authority about the circulation ramp covering:
This Update is the 72nd in a series of informational alerts to let you know about the construction going on related to the Twins Ballpark.

Monday, November 17th and Tuesday, November 18th (7:00 am to 3pm), a Ballpark contractor will close the north lane (the one closest to the Ballpark) of the 7th Street Bridge and the sidewalk by the Ballpark to start building steel framing that will support large wood louvers at the South Pedestrian Ramp.

Wood it is!!

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 12:21 PM by J2K Highlight this comment 19

That skyway could go away if it's OK to make people walk outside. Build some steps from the plaza up to the parking ramp. You wanna go from here to there? Walk down the steps, across the plaza, and back up some more steps.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 1:04 PM by Dave T Highlight this comment 20

The skyway is like HERC. Here to stay...

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 2:44 PM by David_Mpls Highlight this comment 21

I would agree that "here to stay" is the best way to think of these (HERC and skyway).

But I would actually put them both in the same category with the railroad tracks. That is: all are a huge hassle to change, but anything is possible with enough money, creativity and political will.

So far, these are all qualities which can be fairly ascribed to the project. It means that you just never know...

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 3:24 PM by Rick 22

actually TCF Bank stadium could also be used for soccer, should Chicago win the bid for the 2016 Olympics. TCF Bank Stadium is in Chicago's bid book.
I too am concerned about rushour bottle neck around Target Center, especially after those Thursday 12:15 starts. But, as accessible as this park seems to be, with the Light Rail, 394, 94, the new Northstar Line, the Cedar Bike Trail, highway 55 not far away - it might not be too bad. we'll have to wait and see.
And yes, I agree...after yesterday, the Vikes should be in the Dome when the rock is dropped.
Hey, an idea for ramp right next to the park (Ramp B I believe)...I think I big ass video board should be installed across the entire thing.
Or a big flashing Target logo - a la the Citgo sign, visible just beyond the Green Monster at Fenway...lol.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 4:34 PM by luke Highlight this comment 23

Rick, do you have any influence over Hines development like you do the Ballpark Authority? Why not use the back of that giantass scoreboard to put a big video board that broadcasts twins games out to the surrounding Dock Street and North Loop area? People could sit in "Overpass Park" in the summer and watch games.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 5:02 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 24

mplsgreg,

First, I don't know that I have any influence with anybody... I just know that there are decision-makers who follow this site, meaning that we can at least get ideas and issues heard.

Second, you may remember that I spent a little time on the roof of the Minikahda Building with its owner -- and former owner of the ballpark site -- Bruce Lambrecht.

While we were up there, Bruce pointed out with a smile something that I had not noticed: that the scoreboard just happens to be positioned in such a way as to completely block any view of the field from his roof. Hence, no "wildcat bleachers" are possible there.

So...would the team ever put a giant external video board on the back of that scoreboard that would make Bruce's roof a spectacular place to watch a game?

Hard to imagine.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 5:19 PM by Rick 25

Anyone else notice that the webcams have't been updated since 11 am this morning?

Moose

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 6:20 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 26

I noticed that, Moose - I wonder if they're moving them?

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 7:23 PM by Don T Highlight this comment 27

click my name for the webcams. looks pretty flaming dark for 11AM.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 7:26 PM by luke Highlight this comment 28

More likely that they just ran out of storage space for the photos or something. Click link to see the live shots. That would mean they are not currently being moved.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 8:35 PM by Brian Highlight this comment 29

click my link for something really fun...

what's the circulation ramp for?

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 9:48 PM by luke Highlight this comment 30

I'd suggest, as someone else has on this site, that the parking ramp be covered with various plantings, like they do on the entire sides of some new buildings in Europe. Think about it a minute. Different planings, some flowring, some not, would add a lot of color and natural beauty to the Plaza. In the fall, when they turn to various shades of red, orange, and gold, the wall of the ramp would look spectacular, and help to soften the appearance of the concrete plaza. With a southeastern exposure, it would all get plenty of sunlight and would give the ballpark some added, distinctive beauty.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 9:56 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 31

You had to assume we were due for another one...that's right, another Nick Coleman anti-stadium article in the Star Tribune.

He does make some good points, but there is always two sides to a story and he fails to mention how the stadium construction is actually CREATING jobs in this current market.

Posted on November 17, 2008 at 10:30 PM by Luke H. Highlight this comment 32

nick coleman is a small-minded twit....ignore anything written by him or fat pat reusse. usually nothing but recycled mindless drivel. neither has a clue what they are even talking about.

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 12:05 AM by Betaband Highlight this comment 33

im sure they will slap some best buy logos on that ramp.... you know it will be somehting they can make money on

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 08:49 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 34

Nick Coleman is one of the most uneducated writers in this city...how can he simply "shoot from the hip" and make crazy accusations and prejudice assumptions in nearly every article he writes and have a job? 3 years ago I wrote the Strib to cancel my subscription based solely on writers like him being coddled there. I can't stomach that kind of garbage.

While the scoreboard does block the Minikahda Building, mplsgreg's idea about broadcasting the games right outside the park is fabulous. It's much like the Oakland A's plan to construct a double sided video screen.

I hope the Twins feel compelled to team up with Hines (although feelings might be a little strained) as well as the 2010 Partners to try to make the area outside the park welcoming. It will ultimately add value to the club and the park.

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 09:26 AM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 35

how long ago was it that the schedule was painted on the CCO building? i think that was before my time.
or, if they're bringing the flagpole back to pay homage to the Met, maybe they should take the "Blue Monster Hefty Bag" from the dome, and place it across the ramps.

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 09:29 AM by luke Highlight this comment 36

schedule was painted on the CCO building when i was a kid.. im 33 now ..

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 10:41 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 37

The double sided scoreboard is an interesting idea, but only if there's a place to watch the other side of the scoreboard. Minikhada Mini Storage does not count. The other spot that would have a great view of the scoreboard? The 394 on ramps. Thanks, but no thanks.

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 12:21 PM by Alex B. Highlight this comment 38

Here's the image people are referring to:


The plaza would seem a good place for such a board, maybe integrated into whatever is done on the B ramp.

Until more is done to develop the area, it's hard to find another place around the outside that would be desirable and "safe" from commercial exploitation.

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 12:28 PM by Rick 39

I think a board like that would be nice on the plaza.

On another note, does it feel like they are taking a really long time getting the stadia supports installed?

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 2:03 PM by Lafferty Highlight this comment 40

Maybe put an external video board on top of the skyway, facing downtown, since you cant see the park anyways.

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 2:17 PM by Old Guy Highlight this comment 41

I would prefer a second video board somewhere inside the stadium so all fans can view the replays, highlights, etc. Personally, right now, a video board outside the stadium is a big waste of money.

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 3:03 PM by Jeff Highlight this comment 42

how about a dramatic book reading of each half inning on the plaza?

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 3:30 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 43

There's enough room for interpretive dance...

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 3:40 PM by Rick 44

Anything other than decoration on the plaza doesn't make much sense. The plaza is relatively small, and will be a funnel into the stadium. Putting something functional on the plaza itself would be a waste of money as it cannot be seen from anywhere other than the plaza. The back of the scoreboard on the other end might end up being a giant ugly empty canvas just due to its massive size. Do you think the interpretive dancers could hang off of it and twirl around and stuff?

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 4:49 PM by mplsgreg Highlight this comment 45

how about some food vendors on the plaza? only problem though, most stadiums don't allow outside food to be brought into the place.
and hey, where's the picnic area going to go? come on, it can't be Twins baseball without a picnic area!

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 6:32 PM by luke Highlight this comment 46

luke - That may be one of the biggest misconceptions out there. I don't know how many MLB parks you've been to (I've been to about 2/3 of the current MLB parks), and only a couple I can think of do not let you bring in outside food. Sure, there are limits, but you can bring in, say, soft-sided coolers up to 16"x16"x8" filled to the brim with whatever you want at PNC; A clear plastic bag full of, say fried chicken, at Yankee Stadium (no word on New Yankee Stadium - but I'll bet New Yorkers will be quite upset if the policy changes); peanuts sold right outside the ballpark at Jacobs, er, Progressive Field; similar policies to Yankee Stadium at PetCo, Tropicana, AT&T, SafeCo and Kauffman, and on and on...

Click on my name for the Metrodome/Twins A-Z page, where you can find this policy:

PROHIBITED ITEMS
Bottles, cans, and other beverage containers are not allowed into the stadium, except for non-alcoholic beverages purchased on the Plaza. No bags larger than 16"x16"x8" will be allowed into the park. All bags meeting this criteria, including purses, are subject to search. Fans may bring food items into the dome, provided they are in small paper or plastic bags.

The Vikings - and for that matter, the NFL - are a different animal. While food is not directly addressed on Vikings.com, there is this note:

Cans & Bottles: A stadium ordinance prohibits all beverage containers from being brought into the stadium.

Moose

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 7:14 PM by Moose97 Highlight this comment 47

how about nothing on the plaza. keep the traffic flowing. i don't need to keep running into morons that are looking off to the right or left, standing in front of me when I want to walk forward.

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 9:00 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 48

God bless ya kev in az! God bless ya! love the classic one-liners.....

Posted on November 18, 2008 at 11:05 PM by Betaband Highlight this comment 49

yea you can bring just about any food into the dome.. just no drinks... i had a hard time getting baby bottles in once when my son was a baby... but its easy to have a pint of capt morgan in ur pocket... makes those 5 bucls sodas all the more worth it !

of course thats when the kids are @ home......

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 07:38 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 50

since we're on the topic of the plaza, i would like to know how the plaza at tf compares to the plaza at the dome. since most will arrive at tf via the plaza, is it just me or does the plaza seem too small? (it's smaller than the dome's, isn't it rick?)

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 08:29 AM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 51

I think it might be a little smaller but also EVERYBODY starts the pregame @ the plaza at the dome, the LRT loads and unloads there also... Rick said before that Tf will have many other points of entry and exits than the plaza... of you take the LRT you will exit thru the LF or CF gate not the plaza,,,

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 10:38 AM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 52

this plaza won't be as crowded because people will be entering target field from multiple points. people emptying out of lrt trains will enter the park itself first and take the wrap-around concourse if they want to get to the plaza. there will enough activity all around the facility that the plaza won't be the epicenter like the dome's plaza is. everyone who goes to an event at the metrodome basically bunches up on it's west side before going to their respective gates.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 11:17 AM by Tim Highlight this comment 53

is there a echo in here?

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 11:29 AM by echo man Highlight this comment 54

I think the popularity of the Domes plaza has alot to do with the fact that fans simply don't want to enter the dome until it almost game time. They'd much rather sit outside under the sun than the roof of the dome.
Alot more fans will enter the ballpark earlier at Target Field.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 11:39 AM by JohnF Highlight this comment 55

when i went to both safeco and petco, everyone went inside right away to watch BP, get food, wander around, etc. right now at the dome, we avoid all of these because no one wants to go inside, especially on a beautiful summer day.

it will be really nice to be able to walk all around the park on a nice day before the game.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 11:47 AM by annoying customer Highlight this comment 56

Also, I can't recall ever going into the Metrodome early enough to watch batting practice. I feel I've timed my entrance just right when my ticket gets checked and I can hear the national anthem being sung. Now with Target Field I will go early to many games to take in the atmosphere of pregame activities like batting practice etc. Even a simple thing like the sound of the bat hitting the ball (without an echo) will be thrilling.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 11:54 AM by JohnF Highlight this comment 57

The plaza is too small....There won't be any trees....not enough art, there aren't enough doors on the pro shop, the shitstack is ugly, the wrong type of evergreens are used in the batters eye, the 2nd webcam sucks, since the hot stove season started, the only contracts Billy Smith has signed is an extension for their manager and horrible radio play-by-play announcer.....aw hell, let's just blow the place up and start over again!!!

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 12:04 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 58

I agree, the plaza is too small. Make it bigger, Target!

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 12:47 PM by Dave T Highlight this comment 59

Here's a link I found today discussing the expansion of the plaza!

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 2:06 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 60

Gotta wholeheartedly agree John Gordon sucks. But then I got spoiled with five years of Marty Brennaman and Joe Nuxhall before I moved back to MN.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 2:17 PM by Badjuggler Highlight this comment 61

I did a real quick and dirty comparison at one point using Google Earth, and came away thinking that the TF plaza is smaller than the Metrodome's.

Of course, as we all know, size doesn't matter.

The official word I got when I asked the question was that pure size comparisons are a bit deceiving because, unlike the Dome, there will be actual fun to be had inside Target Field before a game.

In addition, the promenade must be considered in the equation, which may pull the two about even in actual square footage.

But no matter how you slice it, it's an apples to oranges comparison:

At the Dome, the plaza serves as a sort of patio on which to hang out before going back inside a house with no windows.

At Target Field, the plaza serves more like the front stoop of the house -- one which beckons you to come on in.

Of greater concern, since it was first mentioned earlier in this thread, is the lack of a picnic area at TF. I haven't had the opportunity to talk to anyone about this yet, but I intend to.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 2:25 PM by Rick 62

While the plaza will be important for "hang out" time, food, vendors (?) before games, many fans may be arriving near the transit center by train, bus or LRT. Could the pregame festivities possibly take place in a couple different areas?

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 2:50 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 63

OG Jeff,

I think my main point is to say that you might be surprised by how little "hanging out" actually happens on the Target Field plaza(s).

While there will certainly be some life (vendors, music) out there, the emphasis will definitely be shifting to what happens inside the ballpark because it will actually still be outside -- unlike the current setup.

It's one of those changes that we find hard to imagine now because of what we're used to.

Damn Dome.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 3:01 PM by Rick 64

Agreed, Rick. Especially for the first season or two, people are going to be anxious to get into the park.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 3:20 PM by OG Jeff Highlight this comment 65

This "spending time at the plaza" discussion reminds me of the first time I went to Miller Park. We parked in the lots where you have to walk across the bridge over Miller Park Way.

If there were food concessions, or even festivities, going on in their plaza area, I have no recollection because I wanted to see the inside of the stadium so badly.

Looking at the google map of Miller Park... I know that Selig used to own the team, but do they really have to name a street "Selig Drive"? Have they no shame?

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 3:48 PM by Orlando Joe Highlight this comment 66

maybe mazaratirick can bring a match-box car to pretend he's tailgaiting on the plaza...

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 3:49 PM by yeahklye Highlight this comment 67

OG:
Thankfully, I never do this:
BS
2.) The manner of talking nonsense and doing things to piss people off.
For the record: I'm not a Delmon hater. I just think the Twins coaches can't stand the guy and have convinced Billy to trade him away for anything from anyone, especially after Span's year.

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 4:17 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 68

kev,
I can't believe you left out the beautiful exterior of the Target Center on your rant. The shame...

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 4:21 PM by Locker Highlight this comment 69

that would be so swell locker... i could bring a go cart.. and a tiny weber and go to town!... then the twins Security guards would kill me... im serious, i have been nearly beaten by a few of them.. they really love the white police shirts they wear with the twins logo... they are real tuff guys!! at the dome.

I have heard also for the last few months about delmon and his basic unwilling to learn anything from the twins... and they want to trade him.. i hope they dont cuz i think when they do he will be a slugger like the rest of them that leave... we are begging casy blake to come back for godsake!... maybe the "twins way" is just starting to mean to a young player that "keep bunting and moving runners to 2nd and you wont ever get a good contract"

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 4:45 PM by mazaratirick Highlight this comment 70

John Gordon is awful. He's getting on in years. believe me, he's no Harry Carry thats for sure. man, I miss Harry. It's been like ten years already hasn't it? I think he died in 1997.
I think the press box at TF should be named in honour of Herb Carneal now that I think of it.

and for all you Harry fans out there..."and a one, and a two and a Take Me Out to the Ballgame..."

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 6:54 PM by luke Highlight this comment 71

Good heavens, Mazaratirick, what did you do to incur the wrath of the Twin's security guys?

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 8:13 PM by Winona Mike Highlight this comment 72

luke,
Harry Caray was certainly entertaining, especially the last 10-15 years he was working, however, it's been much longer when he was a good announcer. I've had the pleasure of listening to Vin Scully in LA for the 7 years I lived there. Herb Carneal was good, Halsey Hall was an absolute riot on the radio. John Gordon just plain sucks. I'm so sick of listening to bats cracking and fans cheering and not knowing what the hell just happened because Gordon won't get off his stupid rant about some minor leaguer...SHUT UP AND CALL THE GAME! You can get away with being a babbling idiot on TV, just ask Ken Harrelson in Chicago. Viewers can still see what's going on during one of Hawk's rants, but on the radio, no way!

Posted on November 19, 2008 at 8:58 PM by kevin in az Highlight this comment 73



"You talk about the magic, the aura, but what really makes a stadium is the fans. Concrete doesn't talk back to you. Chairs don't talk back to you. It's the people who are there, day in, day out, that makes the place magic."

– Bernie Williams

Explore the Site

Here are 50 images chosen randomly from the 3042 found on this site. Click the image to be taken to the original post. A new list is created every 10 minutes.


"I've never seen them do that before," said a Metropolitan Club waiter as I snapped this picture.






One of those funny little sections above the entrance stairs



Best view available from the "B" ramp.






This appears to be the floor to the home dugout!



The Puckett atrium fireplace is just barely visible at the far left.



Complicated pedestrian crossing



Viewed from up Sixth Street, the tip of the canopy looks like the claw of some gigantic crustacean!



TCF Bank Stadium. Not for baseball, but still pretty cool to watch being built.



Let's be honest and say that this promenade, which will face the HERC plant, won't be the most exciting part of the streetscape. It has to be provided for circulation reasons, but there won't be much to see unless vendors and other attractions take root here.



In the top of the 9th, the sun hit our backs and summer took one last long look.



Note that, even though the scoreboard appears strategically placed, it's the outfield stands which block any potential view of the field from this roof.



Gate 29 "Carew" is at right.



Looking back toward the doorway into the club



TC caps everywhere! (Is that you?)






That's my mom. She scored the whole game on her Gameday program (bought for just $1 on the opening night special -- thanks guys!)



Stairs and escalator down to the platform



Looking from First Avenue toward the ballpark (over the top of a construction barricade)












Seventh Street circulation



The Guthrie Theater's Wurtele Thrust Stage seating



Photo by Tyler Wycoff






Work going on under the steel.



View Level



Dugout Dog



Ticket window at Gate 29/Carew



Items promoting the Twins 2014 All-Star Game bid. I got to bring one of these buckets home, and Noah got his first-ever taste of Cracker Jacks.



The Seventh Street facade












Stairs down to Seventh Street now have the start of railings



This was actually taken from the top floor of the International Market Square.









Concept drawing for the fan/player appreciation wall. (Click to enlarge.)



I noticed this detail while taking the previous picture. I figure that it must be the VIP entrance from the surface parking lot. I don't think there is any parking inside the ballpark, so this entrance will likely be for suite-dwellers and other VIPs, though I can't say for sure whether players will enter here.



Did I mention that the cheerleaders looked pretty sharp?



Griffith Stadium (notch visible in lower photo at far left)



Indications that club seating (the wider spaced areas above each dugout) will be a major presence in the lower deck



Note that the sign in the background will NOT be changed because "Twins Way" doesn't extend this far north.



Love the red flowers -- just like the original concept drawings. That NEVER happens.











Glossary

BPM - Ballpark Magic

BRT - Bus Rapid Transit

DSP - Dave St. Peter

FSE - Full Season Equivalent

FYS - Fake Yankee Stadium (see also: NYS)

HERC - Hennepin Energy Resource Company (aka the Garbage Burner)

HPB - Home Plate Box

HRP - Home Run Porch

LC - Legends Club

LRT - Light Rail Transit

MBA - Minnesota Ballpark Authority (will own Target Field)

MOA - Mall of America

MSFC - Minnesota Sports Facilities Commission (owns the Metrodome)

NYS - New Yankee Stadium

SRO - Standing Room Only

STH - Season Ticket Holder

TCFBS - TCF Bank Stadium

TF - Target Field

Selected Bibliography - Analysis
 


(1993)
 


First Edition (1992)
 


Second Edition (2006)
 


(2008)
 

Selected Bibliography - Surveys
 


(1975)
 


Second Edition (1987)
 


Not a "Third Edition" exactly,
but it replaced the above title
(2000)
 


(2000, large coffee table)
 


Original edition (2000, round)
 


Revised edition (2006, round)
 


(2001, medium coffee table)
 


(2002, small coffee table)
 


(2003, medium coffee table)
 


(2004, very large coffee table)
 


(2006, very large coffee table)
 


Combines the previous two titles
(2007, medium coffee table)
 

Selected Bibliography - Nostalgia
 


(1992)
 


Book and six ballpark miniatures
(2004)
 

Complete Bibliography

BallparkMagic™  •  3300 Bloomington Avenue  •  Minneapolis, MN 55407  •  (612) 392-3104
This is a fan site and in no way affiliated with the Minnesota Twins, Minnesota Ballpark Authority, or Major League Baseball.
Unless otherwise noted, this page and all of its contents are Copyright © 2001-2010 BallparkMagic/Lowell (Rick) Prescott.
All Rights Reserved. Used by permission. Privacy Notice