Great synopsis, Rick! Good that they have it. Good that they raised some of the money for it--though it took a LONG time. And, as a native Midwesterner, good that it's efficient, I guess. But, yes, lacking a larger vision. And hopefully there are more niceties to it, maybe even before the season's over.

Nice pics as usual Rick! First time I had seen any decent pics of the new Seibert.

This is a bit of shameless self promotion and even though this is a baseball website, being a hockey state I figured most of you would enjoy this. Clicky linky.

My first video production. A compilation of Minnesota Special Hockey's trip to Philadelphia for the National Disabled Hockey Festival.

Sorry for the hijack.

If it's a "hijack", it's a very nice and very meaningful one.

Twins/Mets game today postponed to August.

I often come to this website and post questions that seemed to get answered so heres another question...i know this has been brought up before but i cant remember the answer...here goes..
I know the broadcast of FSN the camera view is really high above the pitcher almost looking down at the pitcher catcher....but i was watching MLB network game highlights and they had the camera view much lower like it is in most stadiums...is there any reason for this? im not sure what peoples opinions are about this but me personally i prefer the lower camera angle...is there more then one camera for different networks they use?? thanks
rolland

I don't know about the positioning of the cameras, but typically a national network will have more cameras at a game than will a regional network or local station. I personally like the shot from above and behind home plate rather than always using the center field shot.

I'm surprised the game is postponed today. Is it raining that hard in Minneapolis? Mostly just a nuisance drizzle here.

"I'm surprised the game is postponed today."
Could have something to do with being outscored 20-7 in the first two.

Watching the Twins on TV yesterday and happened to catch something odd during the Kent Hrbek Carrier commercial. About 2/3 of the way through the commercial, a full-screen graphic appears with the details of the Carrier deal. The text is superimposed over a faded graphic of a ballpark. It appears to be one of the conceptual drawings of TF from years ago when the drawings included a retractable roof. I just couldn't believe it.

Rick- didnt someone take issue with the "Ballpark Magic" name of this blog? I remember a while back there was an intellectual property thing with BPM but couldnt quite remember what the issue was.

Having only been to old Seibert field for a high school game some years ago, I recall the stands being bad, but not the field. Was the field in that rough of condition that it needed to be replaced? Or was it that it was going be torn up by construction equipment they decided to replace it? It would have seemed more economical to keep the field it already had, as opposed to replacing it with fieldturf, which isn't exactly cheap.

Also if you were planning on seeing Wrigley in it's current form, as I would like to, you better get down there soon, before they drop $500m into it.

Rick, is the field alignment also why they couldn't just use the existing light standards?

Even with the grandstands in declining condition, the Gophers used to say that Siebert had "the best playing field in the Big 10." Oh well, this, too, will pass.

I think I recall hearing that the reason they put in an artificial turf field is so that the field can be ready easier and earlier in the season than a grass field without a heating system. (Obviously a field heating system like Target Field was more than they could afford so they wanted to have the field ready to practice and play games on as early in the baseball season as possible. The decision was mostly taken because of our weather in this area, more than any other factor.

I like the roof on the new grandstand. Should keep the rain off right? LOL! Perhaps coach Anderson can have some cookies sales to fund raise for the new lights? Bet they wish they were in the Humpty Dump instead of outside this spring or winter! Looks like we will go from Winter to Summer? When is the State Fair? LOL!

I remember the big splash when they added them in the early '90s. Not that old! I figured that the razing of the whole site would preclude keeping them. I noticed some concrete pillar-like structures in the outfield. Placeholders of a sort?

I believe the old light standards went to the Mini Met in Jordan, MN

The field is not in the same location so using existing field or light was not possible. Also the field was starting to have problems as right field was sinking and was approximately 4 inches or so lower than home plate. The field was built over an old neighborhood and the house foundations were still under the field.

Turf was needed in order to play earlier in the season and practice late in the fall. No way would Gophers be playing outdoors in this weather without turf. Also apparently the field turf plays very well, don't be surprised if you see other northern college and high school teams go to this type of surface.

Also remember starting next year no dome or indoor football stadium will be available for baseball for at least 2 seasons. A new field was needed or the Gophers would essentially have no home until the 2017 season.

Finally new Seibert was built in accordance with the $$$ fundraised. Hopefully the team can get the dollars needed to build the canopy and lights, etc. The open concourse is awesome and you can watch the game from anywhere. If it does ever get nice this "Spring" those berms will be a fine place to catch a college game too.

Anybody see the catch and subsequent double play Revere made last night (click my name)? I'm going to miss watching him make these plays at Target Field. Hopefully the pitching TR got in return pans out.

Hey twinsfan, lookey at that grass pattern. And the trees? Oh, the trees! Linky.

I went and saw "42" last night, it seemed fitting to watch it on "Jackie Robinson Day".

Excellent movie, but some of the scenes are pretty disturbing. Hard to see the reminders that our country was once so much more intolerant than it is today.

The computer generated recreations of some of the old parks were pretty breathtaking, kudos to the folks who made them happen.

If you want to see a picture that captures the racial hatred which at that time was not something that needed to be hidden, google the photo of Ben Chapman and Robinson. Commissioner Chandler ordered Chapman to pose, but Chapman said he would not shake hands. So they posed holding a bat. The expression on Chapman's face says it all.

Anybody besides me say "here we go again" after the leadoff homer last night?

Yep Jared you should send that to Larry Boy! Tell him that's how a field should look like! Now we got crappy grass patterns and goat ropping concerts to make it look like it does. Why not just send the goat roppers over to TCF bank?

+1 for the picture Jared

-2 for stirring up twinfan

twinfan, what's a ropper?

I'm glad the Gopher program has their own new on campus stadium, BUT, lets be real, the stadium is a very large letdown. The whole thing is very underwhelming. Seriously, if the powers that be, and this includes Coach Anderson, are elated with such a stadium, we need to think about getting some other people involved with the program that have far higher aspirations for it and can actually dream a little bit. The baseball program has won 3 national titles. It regularly makes the NCAA tournament. This stadium is home to one of the premier baseball programs in the Big Ten, if not the top dog historically. It doesn't even come close to Purdue or Indiana's new stadium and those are programs with far less pedigree. Purdue and Indiana have "dreamed" and basically "gone for it" regarding their baseball stadiums. Hope the additional fund raising arrives sooner rather than later and that the future improvements dramatically change the aura of this new stadium. The program deserves better than what they got. Finally, what is up with the huge white bubble dome beyond the center field fence? That is an eyesore. Is that thing permanent? I was really excited about the new stadium the Gopher program was having built. Glad they have one but it needs to be dramatically improved during phase 2.

Haha, sorry Stevie B.

SK-

That's the "UMN Dome". It's seasonal, so it'll come down when, err...if the weather warms up.

Does anyone know when the new Vikings stadium schematic designs will be unveiled? Originally it was set for February than they pushed it back to March following the baseball configuration fiasco and eventually delayed again to April.

Well there are only two weeks left of April, has anyone heard of any scheduled unveilings?

I wonder if the delay has anything to do with the recent developments of the revenue shortfalls from the e-pull tabs?

Stevie B a goat roper definition?

noun
* A Western type person who may or may not be an actual cowboy

* A low-class Faux cowboy

I hate to be mr. blunt today on that last post of yours rick, but wow, that article sure states the obvious. Did we really need someone to pull actual stats on that? I have a hard time believing it was only obvious to me that retractable roofs were primarily going dormant and unopened. Frankly, as far as I am concerned it baffles my mind how any american stadium has gotten away with them included in financing after the first ones showed they were nearly rendered useless. Sorry if that is harsh but dang, really?

It may be obvious to you and many others, Jared (including me), but obviously there are still people clamoring for the inclusion of a retractable roof here in MN.

I get it - we don't want to go indoors if the weather is nice (and some don't care what the elements bring). But either build it open air or put a roof on it. Don't spend all that extra $ to build a (mostly) unused feature.

A retractable dome would allow the new stadium to host international soccer. The World Cup requires real grass and open air stadia.

I'm certainly not a soccer fan; I'm just suggesting a possible reason for the interest by some in a retractable roof.

Rick, would that be the new Farmers Market site plan for a soccer stadium.

I hear ya Stevie B. Just venting a bit I guess.

Winona- Interesting. Real grass makes sense. Why would they require open air stadia?

Not sure Jared. In fact, after some thought, I'm not completely certain about the roof thing. I do know that the Olympics have such requirements.

I am also not sure about open air for international soccer (FIFA), however tge natural grass is true.
In 1994 when the World Cup was in the US, first round games were held at the Silverdome. They grew natural grass on octagonal trays then installed them inside the Dome.

What song do the twins play after hitting a homerun? Also, where can find an mp3 of the We're gonna Win Twins song that is played at the games?

Indeed they did, Luke. After doing a little digging, I find that I'm all wet.

Not to turn this to a soccer discussion, but does anyone here plan on seeing Minnesota United FC in action? I guess they are playing games at the Dome. I might go just to pay my last respects to the old place.

A little something added to the Ben Revere DP story. *clicky* Man, I miss that guy.

Has anyone tried the new "Upgrade Seats" feature on the MLB At The Ballpark app? Last night I tried it out and found it VERY confusing.

Upgrade options are not available until 1 hour before game time. Then the areas are shown as "Home Plate" "1st Base" etc, not as individual sections. Then you're given a price, however they never ask where your current seats are. I was in LC last night and thought if I could free exchange down to the Home Plate Box or pay a little to be in the Dugout Box, I would do it. It was asking for ~$10 for HPB and ~$6-7 for Diamond Box. No way, not from LC.

BUT if I had a $8 cheap seat, I would definitely pay those upgrade prices.

Anyone know why FS-North switched over to the LA Angels feed last night?

"Anyone know why FS-North switched over to the LA Angels feed last night?"

DickBert contract timewise?

Rick ---

Long about inning 8.5, about 3.5 hours into the game, the audio on the tube was no longer DickBert. No mention of issues or anything, just switched over.

Well the 5-6-3 putout to end the game was certainly a nice play by Florimon, but he booted two big plays earlier in the game that stretched out innings - bobbled a double play relay, then failed to throw to second on a deep hit to get a runner. But he makes the fantastic play to end the game and all is silent about the earlier innings. Search florimon on twitter if you want to see a man go from goat to hero in the span of several dozen tweets.

BUT what I really wanted to mention, speaking of goats, is that a companion and I sampled the famous lamb/goat burger at the park last night and it's very good. Nice flavor, with a bit of grilled onion and red pepper on top and some tasty chips. Mmmmmm.

The MLS provision with the new Vikings stadium was absurd. MLS' model is to put teams into soccer specific stadiums that hold around 20,000. Those smaller stadiums mean greater ticket scarcity and better atmosphere. Of the four teams left in large football stadiums, DC and New England desperately want new parks, Vancouver has a unique system of creating an inner roof of sorts to create a better setting, and Seattle was a compromise to get Paul Allen of Microsoft as an owner with the team then drawing beyond anyone's expectations.

I just don't see this area as prime MLS country. None of the various minor league teams have drawn at all and it's that missing groundswell of support that helped launch the successful Seattle, Portland, and Montreal teams. I'd even hesitate to build something for the new minor league team given the abject level of support that team receives, regardless of incarnation.

Whatever the Vikings stadium design looks like, people will be disappointed. If it's a fixed roof many will be letdown. Others will complain a retractable roof is unnecessary. Depending on what we get, many will either complain the design is not innovative enough or it may be too avant garde for others. Will it tie well enough into the neighborhood? My sincere hope is they build a stadium for 2030 instead of 2015, so we get something that doesn't feel dated from day one. Generic as the schematics may have seemed, HKS did good work in Dallas and Indy with two very different stadiums.

Did the Angels crew ever acknowledge that they were calling the game for a Twins audience? Was it only the audio or video too?

Something similar happened with a broadcast last year in St. Louis of a game between the Cardinals and the Padres. The Fox Sports Midwest feed got cut off somehow, so the St. Louis audience got switched over to the Fox Sports San Diego feed, both audio and video. Padres announcer Dick Enberg made a point to welcome the unexpected audience in the Midwest. After a few innings, the problem was solved and the Fox Sports Midwest broadcast resumed.

I agree with you about Ben Revere Rick. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been thinking "Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio" ever since the trade was announced.

I didn't recall the Angels crew making any announcement. It looked like the Angels' video feed (I think the scoreboard supers said "Angels Baseball"), but the FSN TWINS icon was still in the top right corner of the screen. I'll leave it to others to speculate on the meaning of that pattern....

The stadiums in Dallas and Indianapolis are islands, but looking at the sites, it's difficult to say what could have otherwise happened.

Cowboys Stadium is set in a suburban area with chain stores and chain restaurants as neighbors. The team ultimately wants the fans on its property and in its stadium spending money with little regard for the neighbors. For its part, Arlington is playing along figuring what the area lacks in cohesiveness, it makes up for in development (chain stores, chain restaurants, chain hotels) and generates tax dollars. Not everyone is a fan of the stadium's Death Star look, but I like the fact that it looks like nothing else. When you see it, you know where you are. Plus it's a stadium that will age well from a fan comfort/amenities standpoint.

With Lucas Oil Stadium, it was important for Indianapolis that the stadium end up adjacent to the convention center and in proximity to the substantial number of hotels servicing that facility. The site of the RCA Dome would have linked the new stadium nicely into downtown, but that land was coveted for expanding the convention center and even if available, would have required the Colts to spend at least a season at Purdue. So the stadium wound up behind the convention center in a spot near the minor league ballpark, but generally lacking development potential and isolated from the rest of downtown.

Ben Revere is an exciting ball player, with some clearly plus skills (paricularly on defense). But the Twins werfe dealing from an organizational strength (OFs, particularly CFs) to shore up an organizational weakness (SPs, particularly hard throwing SPs). Make a ton of sense to me.

And before we start comparing revere to HoFers, it's probably wise to note that he's still just a .318/.318, sub-.650 OBP guy in the majors to date. Lots of speed, but no power, and likely never will have any. Brock hit 20+ HRs one year. That could end up besting Ben's career total.

Dang typos. "Sub-.650" OPS guy. I'd probably take a guy with a .500 OBP and GG caliber defense. ;)

I'm not saying Revere will have a HOF career. Only that whenever you trade a young guy with "a tremendous upside", to use one of those obnoxiously over-used Mel Kiper-isms, it is a possibility. When Brock was traded he had "a tremendous upside", but he had not yet developed into the player he would become. He was only about a .250 career hitter at the time of the trade.

Not happy about paying the lot attendant to park, only to find out they took our money and ran in the 8 minutes it took us to walk from the lot to the ford building and back. It was only $5 but what a travashamockery.

Sprang for the A ramp...after the postponement they let us out without turning in the card. We can now hold onto that card and use it for the rescheduled game without having to pay again....

Re the earlier global warming discussion and Rick's admonishment to confine the ignorant comments to baseball, if anyone is interested in some intelligent commentary on baseball and climate change, as well as election and weather forecasting, markets, gambling, chess and computers, terror risk assessment, basketball, and much more, check out Nate Silver's "The signal and the noise: why so many predictions fail - but some don't".
While I agree that the "where is global warming" jokes when weather is cold, are either ignorant or lame; if we take him at his word, Luke read the articles linked by Rick (I didn't). I don't think many people deliberately take the time and effort to read something they are predisposed to disagree with.

Robin, the idea of global "warming" has me a bit distressed.
Now, climate "change" is a bit more accurate.
BTW, I am very much an Evolutionist-Master Darwin is my hero. BUT being a man of science, I can find merit on BOTH sides of MOST issues :) In other words, I am not "predisposed" to disagree necessarily, but I suppose you could say I am "predisposed" to question .

Fair enough. I probably didn't use the term quite right. For example, when government declares war on certain concepts or substances, such as poverty, drugs, terrorism (non-governmental), bullying (non-governmental), etc., I may be predisposed to disagree, but hopefully due to skepticism based on prior observations, pattern recognitions, etc. But it would not be wise to refuse to listen to their argument, or assume I must be right in disagreeing with a future "war."
You might be interested in this item from the Silver book: "Decades of historical data show that when the [National] Weather Service says there is a 1 in 10 chance of rain, it really does rain about 10% of the time over the long run.{I haven't read enough to know what the 'long run' means.} This property is true of National Weather Service forecasts--but not of your local TV meteorologist. Their incentive may be to exaggerate the probability of rain for the sake of better ratings."
Silver, incidentally, is a co-creator of PECOTA, the baseball statistical system used by Baseball Prospectus.

Funny how the Twins are complaining about lack of home games in July but yet they are the ones that want the summer concert at Target Field in July.

If you want more home games from Memorial Day thru Labor Day, than don't have those summer ballpark concerts.

Can't have it both ways, in order to accommodate that summer concert you so desire, you need to sacrifice some of those summer home games.

Same thing with the HS baseball championships, they don't need to be played at TF. That is one summer weekend you could be playing at home.

Mike you are correct the goat roping or any concerts at TF are just plain stupid. Maybe the Twinks will finally get it right. Have those silly concerts over at the Bank. Can't wreck that already pathetic looking field anymore anyways. Although you can bet the Queens will pay to get new turf and heaters installed soon over there.

If Luke and Twinkfan joined forces and had a daily podcast, I would listen to it every day.

I bet old Larry Boy wishes there were no more concerts! Course maybe old Larry will rip the entire field up after the concert this July and replace it with some half azz Minnesota turf?? Larry has to be crying looking out his window at the way the field looks now.

I am going to be a little blunt (not personal against Robin and not directed at Robin, "you" being a general term) again for a second on the 10% weather stat: that's pretty much a duh statement but people forget it. And people say they will never need to remember that math? That's why those percentages are given. Out of 10 days with similar conditions, it will rain 1 in 10 of those days, 10%. All 'long run' means is a decent sample size of conditions similar to the conditions of that day. Its basic statistics class. 10 days isnt a representative sample. 20? meh. 30, okay. 40 or 50 should be a good starting sample. more than that would be best. Decades is plenty. We not only have decades worth of historical data, we have over 100 years worth of usable data. Of course observations have been taken for thousands of years to some degree though. And the extent and detail of observations 100+ years ago was far less.

TV is a different animal than NWS. It's entertainment and verification isn't as high of a priority. I am not saying their standards are more loose, per se, the NWS just has more reasons to have a higher verification rate. The TV stations I have experience with gave no incentive for a meteorologist to dramatize their forecasts for ratings. Matter of fact primary during sweeps weeks, they highly produce weather packages to generate ratings but that is part of the whole aura of sweeps. These packages however are not exaggerated forecasts but stories about local weather to increase awareness, historical weather, significant events, etc...if that makes sense. Think ESPN 30 for 30 type stuff, just not as highly produced. They will spice up those stories by throwing in factual data but it isn't made up information. So to that extent the drama is added.

On any other week though, I am hard pressed to find any TV meteorologist that I am connected to that will try to add anything to their forecast to create drama. Well, other than wacky inflatable tube man antics, similar to those of that coked out weather guy from South Carolina or wherever that was just to get people to watch their boring weekly 'sunny and 75' 7-day forecasts. There is a difference between dramatizing your forecasted numbers and dramatizing the weather segment to keep ratings up, not sure if that explains it well.

There are the exceptions like Paul Douglas but were I still in the industry today I would have a similar albeit slightly less stance as Paul. That makes perfect sense in my head if the writing isn't exactly translating in all of yours.

The idea is to create awareness for a situation not incite fear and panic. As a forecaster I would rather say "there is a potential for up to 10 inches of snow and only have 3-4 inches verify" or "widespread lightning, hail, downbursts, frequent tornadoes" and have you be prepared for potential danger than say "just a sprinkle of rain" and then actually have widespread tornadoes without anyone being aware. Its just stupid to go that route. It is our job to prepare you by informing you of what could be.

At the end of the day, does a few degrees short of a forecasted high on a day when clouds linger a little longer and hold down the temp really make a difference to you? Does 6 instead of 10 inches of snow really make a difference to you? Other than having to wear your jacket a little longer or a little smaller snow drift in your driveway, it doesn't. It just doesn't. Chaos (butterfly effect) in such a complex system can produce 10 inches and we are letting you know that is a possibility. The snow is still coming, its more than a dusting, it will make for a crappy commute and you will have to shovel and your back will still hurt from shoveling. But at least you were prepared for the situation and what can happen. The people that extra 4 inches really matters to, pay a private firm to keep them in the loop (it seems) every second of the day. A missed forecast on a severe storm can be a matter of life and death and while they are almost always well forecasted, i don't know anyone that would want to make it seem worse than it really is, just for ratings.

It annoys the hell out of me and most mets i know when people get nit picky about forecast verification but I don't mind it. I generally have little sympathy for "most" people who say they were unaware of a particular weather situation. For instance the many, many people I saw who showed up to the two games I have attended this year in low 30 degree, windy or rainy weather with nothing more than a pair of jeans and a zip up hoodie/lightish jacket. Weather affects our everyday lives in nearly every way. It's watercooler talk everyday at the office. Technology now not only gives you access to conditions nearly anywhere, anytime but also alerts you in event you need to take action (weather radios and mobile apps) AND it can also offer support when you are stranded by weather (there is a great app called Winter Survival Kit, download it now). So in most circumstances there is no excuse for unpreparedness.

Whoa, big tangent. long post. sorry.

Note: don't read this as a nasty retort. Honestly, its from a lighthearted, informative mindset of my experience.

Great day for outdoor baseball!

My baseball team is now o for 6 on scheduled games being played. My team has been practicing for a month now and we have yet to be on an actual baseball field. Worst spring ever!

Now the Tornado sirens are wailing??? Ajax White Tornado??? LOL! How bout those poor High School teams playing a schedule this year?? Will be no practice all games!

Does it matter to me if we get 6 inches of snow vs. 10 inches? Yes it does, especially at this time of year. Let me be clear I HATE winter. I hate it in the way the most devoted Vikings fan hates the Packers. However, work and family ties keep me rooted to this area. I'm stuck.

We're having one of the worst springs not only in my memory, but I believe in recorded history. We're getting a legitimately heavy snowfall event on April 18-19 that will likely still be on the ground when May arrives. The potential 70 degree plus days that were projected for the weekend following this upcoming one have already been downgraded to the upper 50s in part by the likelihood of snow still being on the ground and cooling the air. I believe we're on track to have the latest "first recorded 60 degree day" ever in the Twin Cities. Projections also say we'll have, if we're lucky, a single day above 60 this entire month which would be no better than a tie for the fewest, if not the fewest outright. It was 63 degrees a year ago today. This weather is eating away at my soul and sanity.

I don't blame the forecasters. They don't create the weather. However, Ian Leonard of KMSP is so smug he's literally unwatchable and Belinda Jensen has worn me out with the "aw shucks" routine she's been working this month. I realize it's all showbiz, but it's to the point now that it's impossible to watch these routines until at least the news being provided gets worse.

Gets better! I'm so depresed over the weather I can neither type or proofread correctly.

TTH- Something to shoot for! Lol.
Hlwever, I am starting to think about doing an online satirical cartoon...:)

Does it matter to you Jorge, especially because you hate winter? Of course. But my point was does it [i]make a difference[\i]? Do you really truly notice the extra 4 inches of snow, 1/4 inch of rain, 10 mph wind, 3 degrees warmer/colder? To the vast majority, it doesn't and they don't. But I get your point. If you hate winter, any snow amount is awful.

I stand with you on your analysis of some of the TV personalities. Hard to watch. I rarely watch the news in general and barely watch a weather segment unless its a cut in during severe weather in the summer. That's when its fun for me, mostly because they have access to radars/data that I can't get without an obnoxiously high (last I checked) monthly subscription. So it's my moment to geek out for a bit.

I must be as tired and depressed with winter as you because I actually read your initial post as you meant and not what you wrote. Sigh. Spring can come anytime now.

The H*ll with Spring! Who needs it? Bring on summer!!!!!! Hope Larry boy can get that snow covered mess ready by Monday! Gonna be a lot of lost revenue for the boys this year! Do we hit 2 million this year?

Jared, no offense taken, none meant.

Did I hear that tonights game in Chicago is postponed??

None taken here either.

It appears you heard right Luke.

I have a cousin that lives near Chicago, said it rained 9 inches there.

Here's my final comment on weather misery. Then I'm done in order to keep what's left of my mind. Next weekend, originally forecasted with temps in the 70s and then downgraded to the upper 50s, has been downgraded further to temps in the low 50s. It might even snow a bit on Saturday April 27. Monday April 29 is the only day this month projected to be above 60, the latest "first 60" ever in these parts. If the temp fails to break 60 that day, we'll leave April without a 60 degree day for the time in Twin Cities weather history.

Irrationals as this may seem, I consider this type of weather not just inconvenient or disappointing, but infuriating and insulting. I've learned in life to let go of ill feelings towards things beyond my control, but this awful spring is breaking that rule. The worst part is that we don't get extra nice days in September and October, or even November, to make up for this. Fall will kill Summer on schedule just like always.

Jorge, you ready for some May snowfall? Maybe we will set a record for that month: Historic May Snowstorms

"Did I hear that tonights game in Chicago is postponed??"
I keep telling folks that there ought to be a retractable roof on U.S. Cellular Field. Do they listen. No!

Jorge, I think the weather is getting to all of us. Between all of my friends, social media sites, forums, etc... EVERYONE seems to be hitting the breaking point. Can we put M-SP on wheels and head south to warmer weather??? Let's go!

Keep your dobber up Jorge. The snow will melt in a week or so. This is looking very much like 1965. Massive flooding followed by maybe tornadoes??? Hey we went to the world series in 65 also!

Strasburg v. Harvey tonight Rick. Even without the Twins baseball season never disappoints.

Schweady-that very issue was the topic of todays installment of Neighboring States my new online satirical cartoon.

It's been a very difficult week. We need sun and green grass and not just on fields with underground heating and we need baseball. We all need a respite from the ugliness of this week.

Doesn't look like that's coming next week either.

NHL Hockey Winter Classic at Target Field in 2015.

Classy.

I thought it was a nice, impromptu speech. The crowd loved it.

Well, Hicks is now batting Jackie Robinson's number. Aside from a hot Joe Mauer and (gasp!) Florimon, the rest of this team isn't hitting well. What's the over/under on number of games this season the Twins score 10 or more runs?

Apparently, over/under should be set at however many times they play the Astros.

Fourteen games and three snow-outs do not a season make, but it is good to see them win some games even when they are getting no hitting. Could you imagine that happening last year?

Really? Mauer isn't catching today? 4th game of the week, and he can't catch today? Not even day game after night game.

OK, dont scare it away...but two sources now (Weather Channel and Star Trib) are pointing at upper 60s maybe low 70s for Saturday.
Looks like this demon of winter bullshit might finally be exorcised from Minnesota.

Not quite. Another 1 to 3 inches of snow tomorrow night/early Tuesday according to most forecasts although WCCO says it could be 3 to 7. If we get enough and the snow pack cools the air, next weekend will be more like upper 50s to low 60s. Some folks will be partying like it's an 80 degree day in July if we make it to 60, but I just can't. I just can't do it. The average high temp for this time of year is about 63. Until we're meeting that with regularity and occasionally topping it, or whatever the average rises to as we go along, I'm not going to even pretend to be happy.

Jorge raises a good point.

Well at least there is a good chance it is another round of thunder-snow, which is exciting (probably mostly for just me and my weather geek friends) but will no doubt confuse more Minnesotan's about the weather.

Linky

Well its a no brainer they cancel todays game! If we get 5 inches might be tough to get the game in tomorrow also! I see both teams are off on wed. Maybe a day night doubleheader?

Saturday... sunny and 66 degrees? Jorge and luke may remain hunkered down together somewhere, but I will be happy. We have a taproom tour on the calendar with up to 10 options mapped out to explore. I may dance.

DSP says Wednesday is not an option due to the Marlins' schedule. I think they move tonight's game to tomorrow for a day/night doubleheader. If we get too much snow they could end up delaying the 1st and make it a true DH with 3-4pm start. Allowing all fans to come to both games. That would be fun... maybe?

I just bought myself a ticket for Friday's game against Texas, if the weather is in the 60s I will definitely be happy.

I might still wear my winter coat to the game, though....

Not sure why the marlins would have a problem with playing wed. They host the cubs at home the next day but big deal! So they got to fly all night whats so tough about that? And it's not like they are playing an afternoon game on Thursday!

from DSP (@TwinsPrez): "Wed not an option as Miami would be playing 27 straight days RT@TwinsGeek: Is Wed also an option? Seems like both teams have that day free?"

I show the Marlins had the 2nd and the 11th off this month! Plus they will get today and tomorrow off to boot! St Peter must not be too good with math. Big deal! Make em play! I mean they are 4-15 with old Redman at the helm! LOL!

yeah, I hadn't looked at their schedule. I took DSP's word. The math doesn't make sense. Especially since they have another off day May 9. Who knows... I still think we end up with 2 games on Tuesday.

June 24th makes sense as a reschedule date. Both teams have the day off, and the Twins are playing Miami the 25th and 26th in Mia, so neither team will have a travel disadvantage.

Summer will get her revenge. And when she does I will laugh my head off. I hope MN burns to a crisp.

Well they called the game today and have a split doubleheader starting @ 1:10PM tomorrow. The game for tonight will be played tomorrow night @ 7pm . Be interesting depending on how much snow they get if they can get the place ready by tomorrow afternoons game. What a mess! Load up on some Holiday brats to keep your hands warm!

Tonight's game postponed - planning a split DH for Tuesday at 1:00 & 7:00. Clicky

If we truly get 4-6" of white stuff tonight it will take an incredible effort by the grounds crew to get ready for an afternoon game.

They should have a sled giveaway day this year.

Sadly luke, that is the way Mother Nature works. It's all about balancing the heat/moisture budget. We didn't have the coldest of winters but the delay of spring/summer will have it's effect. The Climate Prediction Center 90 day outlook verifies that sentiment. Looks like it could be extra rough in the Desert Southwest this summer, particularly in New Mexico.

Hey, I'll take mid 60s and low 70s on Friday and Saturday but can't see how that's possible if we get 4 to 8 inches of snow tonight. If that comes to pass, figure on the meteorologists to suddenly take the forecasts to the upper 50s. I'll gladly be wrong and will plead guilty to all charges of pessimism. Understand though, there's little reason for anything else on the weather front this spring.

If anyone wants a faint, silver lining, after the debacle of so many postponements so far this season, I highly doubt MLB loads up the Twins with so many April games next season.

Well get rid of the goat roping concerts in July then! Send em over to the Bank. That would make poor old Larry Boy happy anyways!

Best drainage system of all ballparks, yet they can't play in a little rain? Seems like they wasted their money on that drainage system if it doesn't allow them to play in the rain. Even if it snows, field is heated and snow will melt. I would think that only weather that makes it hard seeing the ball, like a downpour or heavy snow, would keep them from playing.

Maybe they just wanted that great drainage system so they could power wash the snow off the seats.

Was a no brainer to cancel tonight. Just look at the current radar. Man next 2 days don't look to good either.

The drainage system was never intended to facilitate play in the rain. Its purpose is to allow play even if a heavy rain occurred earlier in the day - a highly valuable function.

Haha, greek tragedy, this is not. but when highs are high, they are usually followed very closely by some low lows.

Ah, but Jorge trust me, those temps are very possible after getting snow today. And it goes back to what I said above. Balance the "heat budget" as my professor would always say. There is no better example than in the leeward side of the Rockies. Frequently they will start off on one side of a Low pressure system get snow-dumped on, followed by bitter cold only to end up on the other side of the Low with sunny skies and 70 degree temps and vice versa with the next passing Low. Now we obviously aren't butted up against some tall mountains but the "heat return" (as it's called) is similarly dramatic here, especially this time of year. It can be tough to forecast the true high for saturday. As conditions change elsewhere around the globe, the low may stall out and stop or even move westward (back towards us), the heat return may slow, quicker than expected or the next system may sweep in faster. This is why you see the temp jump say from 74 to 63 (as it did this week). But in any case the heat return will happen.

Dave, this won't be "a little rain" at game time. As fast as the snow is forecasted to come down as early as first pitch, there isn't a turf heating system on earth that could melt that heavy wet amount of snow fast enough. 1-2 inches per hour is a pretty awesome clip of snow. It would be extremely difficult to pickup the baseball in that kind of snow in the majority of locations on the field. Now if we stay on the warm side of the front, long enough, the precip will stay as rain longer. But should we end up on the cold, snow side sooner? As Jorge would probably say "harrumph" or "bah-humbug", but not in such nice terms.

PS, i linked the Wiki article on thundersnow in the previous post. It's funny that it says a "rare event" (which it generally is compared to the overall number of snow events) but with the alignment and conditions of passing systems this season alone we have had like 2 or 3 at least that I am aware of.

Jared, I truly hope you're right about the heat balance this coming weekend. My earlier statement goes back to the last time or two this spring when temps in the 60s and even low 70s got severely downgraded to low 50s by big snowfalls. Of course past performance isn't always indicative of future results, so hopefully this is winter's last gasp. That we're having this discussion April 22 is bad enough. The sunshine and low 40s this morning would have been great had it been March 22. When all this weather madness ends, I'll quietly and gladly return to discussing stadiums.

jared - in case you haven't noticed, we are NOT New Mexico, nor are we the desert southwest.
Rick - loved, LOVED the mythology reference. Next to Darwin' teachings on Evolution, Greek mythology is one of my favorite subjects.

I am with ya Jorge, I am with ya.

Wait, Luke, you mean to tell me New Mexico isn't on the other side of South Dakota? Ya know, next to Iowa, north of kansas, east of Colorado? That's not the desert southwest? There is land past that? Is this one of those Christopher Colombo discoveries? Are you Christopher Colombo? Is this real life? Are you serious?

Dude, this is Minnesota - why should we be concerned about how "rough" it is in New Mexico or the desert southwest?

Oh, you know, you're right. Outside of Luke's existence there is nothing and shall be nothing, so goes the word of Luke.

So, the desert has a dry summer. Dont they usually? I mean, it IS a desert you speak of, right? :/ its a very simple concept really...MN is not a desert...lol.

So, who is going to have more snow-outs this season? The Tiwins or the Rockies?
I wonder if a visiting team (hello Mets) has ever had two snow outs in two different cities before?

MLB really needs to shorten the season on both ends, but I suspect that will never happen.

Good questions jfh. And on shortening the season...I am torn. What we have seen in the last week is the exception, not the rule...but, for those instances, it is nice to have a bit more wiggle room to reschedule.
DOUBLEHEADER today!

The weather this spring in Minnesota is an aberration, but nevertheless JFH is right. The season starts too early and ends too late. The powers that be want the extra revenue so they are willing to start the season in March and play the World Series in November. It may be good for the owners and TV networks, but it is not good for the game.

Do the boys hit 5 digits for attendance at todays noon game? Gonna be a ghost town in there. What do you think the number of no shows is this year for people that actually have tickets to games??? Gotta be up there. Bring you snowmobile suit man! Hope its 60 by May 31st my first game of the year! LOL!

I will let you know, going to both games.

Baseball should go back to the 155 game schedule to knock off two weeks. Start the 2nd week of April and finish the 3rd week of September. World Series could be completed by October 21. Either schedule more doubleheaders or cut back on some of the divisional games. Do we really need to play CHW/CLE/DET/KC 19 times each? With expanded playoffs and expanded interleague, it's safe to say divisional games no longer are as significant as they once were.

The only reason MLB pushed for expanded playoffs and keeps pushing the unbalanced schedule is for those Red Sox-Yankees games. Sad but true. Any way to get both teams into the postseason and any way to get those Red Sox-Yankees games on FOX and ESPN.

Just sold 4 tix in sec 214 for $10 total to a scalper. That was by far the best offer i got. I got 5 "dont want to buy them" and one $1 a piece, this was right about noon and there is no crowd around Target Field right now

As far as schedule goes, here is what i have been saying it should be for the last 10 years...

15 teams each League (finally accomplished)

one 3 game series against everyone in the other League ( 15 teams minus your rival) = 42 games

6 games vs rival

two 3 game series against everyone in your league, not in your division
= 60 games

that makes 108 total games so far, to play your 4 division opponents equally, you could make it 13 games vs each division opponent and that would be 52 games, making it a 160 game season.. and a near balanced schedule for everyone.

Thoughts?

I like. Submit it to MLB. Of course now with MLB Network, they wouldn't do that...they want the TV money.

Why not just let the fans in free if they want today? Maybe they can get it up to 20,000?

Anybody watching the game? How is the crowd? We get at least 10,000 today? Boys are up 4-2 top of 8th!

Man somebody check Perkins for the juice! What is that 6 straight strikeouts in 2 saves?? Sure don't miss Nathan struggling out there! LOL! Boys are 9-7. Redmond on the hot seat with the 4-16 Marlins?

According to the box score the attendance was near 25,000. Of course that is tickets sold not butts in seats. I bet there were half that. I did see some tweets saying that there were lots of school groups.

It will be interesting to see how empty it is tonight. I have my LC seats but plan to venture down to the lowest possible. Or if a scalper will trade me straight up for Dugout Box, I'll do it.

Did you see new Vikings jerseys? clicky

Was at the day game. Half the stadium was school groups. If that hadn't been the case, there would have been 7,000 there tops.

I was also at the game. There WERE lots of school groups, but not half. Actually, I came dressed ready for the cold and was too warm by mid-game! Sitting in the sun, I didn't need my hat or gloves. Didn't even buy the soup or chili I was planning to get.

Oh, and I saw him. I saw the Miami Marlins fan. Or at least a guy willing to wear a Marlins jersey. Wish I'd had my cell phone ready. Rarer than a Bigfoot sighting...

Twinfan, you think the cheap-o Marlins would fire someone with a 3 yr contract after only a month? After they gutted that team it is probably amazing they HAVE won 5 games this year. Give him a raise!

Jeff Loria should be banned from baseball.

The Vikings and Dolphins were supposed to have grand unveiling's of their new uniforms at their respective draft parties on Thursday. Then the Jags put out a photo on Tuesday that showed their new uniforms and those of the other two teams as well. The Vikes are still going to do the big presentation on Thursday, but there are a lot of upset personnel at Winter Park over this.

As for the uniforms themselves, I'd have preferred a return to the mid 1960s/mid 1990s version that's been a throwback in recent years, but the new uniforms look good and improve tremendously over the outgoing set.

To put this on a stadium path, is there any time table for the release of Vikings stadium designs?

The new Vikings uniforms look mostly purple and a lot of white with some gold. Is this new?

Jorge- I believe I read a couple of days ago on the MPR website that said the Vikings designs will probably be unveiled sometime in early May or so.

Last night's game reminded me too much of the 2012 season. Give up a crooked number in the first, play catch up the rest of the night and whenever the score gets close the opponent puts up more runs. As the famed philosopher L.P. Berra once said, it was deja vu all over again.

schweady, the entire design is new. The colors are the same. Everything else has been turned upside down.

Why unveil new uniforms for the LAST year at the Metrodome? Why not wait til 2016 when the new stadium opens? Thus seems odd to me.

Because from 2013-2015 they will make $$$ selling these and then they can do it again in 2016 and sell even more. And probably sell the "old" versions as retro.

Now that Nike runs the NFL uniforms they will be making change after change and put all kinds of combinations into place. Maybe they will even come up with a pregame warmup jersey that is different, just like mlb teams have the BP jerseys/hats that are different than game unis.

Postponements are rather rare, as the stats show, but probably a bad measure of how weather impacts fan satisfaction.

Weather and team performance are the two biggest factors that drive the satisfaction level of attending a game. Which one has the biggest impact? In my opinion, when your talking about just one single game, weather has the bigger impact. If it's a nice beautiful day, it's a pleasure to be at the ballpark win or lose. If it's a miserable day, even a win may not make it enjoyable. Probably would of been more fun saving the money on the ticket and watching the game at a local pub.

Satisfaction drives future sales.

Ooh... I see... Funny, those first couple of years, the purple looked sort of grey. clicky.

Well we finally get some baseball weather! Winter to summer! Who needs spring anyways? Larry boy needs some nice weather to shore up that field that's for sure. What is that big gob in center and in right field! You know a nice checkerboard grass pattern would hide some of those faults Larry!!!!

I was just looking at the Target Field seating view webpage (linky), it displays the field with a checkerboard pattern.

First game of the year for me tonight. To say I'm excited is a bit of an understatement. We might see 70 degrees by game time!

Opening Day for my 8th grade baseball team. After 6 weeks and 28 practices, the boys of summer are back! IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!

State High School baseball playoffs start in 2-3 weeks and no games played yet? LOL!

Who wants to go sit inside the Metrodome tonight to watch the Twins? How about Saturday and Sunday afternoon?

Where are all of those Dome and Roof fans this weekend???

Is there a tractor pull in the humpty dump this weekend? LOL!

We insist on an open-air stadium for baseball, and then we insist on building a domed football stadium designed to accommodate baseball? Is the rest of the country laughing at us?

What a beautiful day in MN. Days like this are the exact reason TF was built

Question of the year Winona. Question of the year.

Mike, if it had been a well designed retractable roof, we still would of been able to enjoy the nice weather. And be comfortable during the bad. Imagine that!

Rick I recall you posted a picture of one of the ballpark models that had the roof, and pointed out the particular design placed the track directly over the LF bleachers...which essentially would have hung over the bleachers thus putting everyone who sat therein would be left in primordial darkness.
It was that revelation that converted me to the "roofless" side of the ballpark issue. It was a terrible design and I thank God every day that the Twins got what they got.

MLB Guidelines for Movement of Retractable Roofs. The roof part is toward the bottom of that page.

We've chatted about this before, just the mere fact of having a roof along with thousands of fans, will impact the temperature inside the ballpark. Add to that any additional radiant heat sources or industrial sized cooling fans. So although it may not be climate controlled there's is much more control then completely open.

For the current location they for sure would of had to increase the footprint to hold the track footings and secure the aerial rights for holding the opened canopy. But between those tracks and under the open canopy they could still have been something. Be it parking, roads, rail, or shorter buildings of some sort.

I have been to Safeco Field, it's a nice ballpark. It has railroad tracks under it's open canopy. But it's open roof is not invisible. Part of it still hangs over the outfield seats. So most of the anti-roofer's wouldn't like it. It does however slide toward the east, minimizing the shadow effect of afternoon and evening games.

Well deigned roofs being a detriment or advantage to the enjoyment of a game is purely a personal preference. The same thing was said of artificial lights and night games. The opinions on that sure have changed over the years. A well played ballgame is a well played ballgame no matter where or when it's played. How enjoyable that game may have been is subjective.

I would disagree with the notion that a roof is nothing more than an insurance policy on walk-up sales. There's a much bigger financial impact than that. For fans that bought tickets but are no shows due to weather, there's lost concession, parking and merchandise revenues. You lose all revenue for any fan or groups not willing to risk a trip and having the game played in miserable weather or worse yet postponed. For example, I decided not to plan any games for April. If anything, no roof would increase walk-up sales rather than hinder them due to less people making advanced plans.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting that. That AZ roof must open FAST. Rules say "two pairs of 2'15" intervals."

May 13. Mark it on your calendars. Design for US Bank Stadium to be revealed according to the MSFA

Vikings stadium design to be revealed on May 13 at the Guthrie Theatre.

A limited number of tickets will be available to the public.

Click link for info

Those general public tickets better be free of charge or else they are asking for another PR nightmare in my opinion.

To paraphrase Peter Pan, all you need is faith, trust and pixie dust ... and starting pitching!

I went to Friday night's ballgame (nice to see you there, too, Rick!). I found it fascinating how a different PA announcer (Adam Abrams must've been doing the Wild game at the same time) gave the park a different feel. The sub did fine, but at times I felt like I was in a different park although all the visuals were the same.

I noticed in Denver last year that their PA announcer tried a little too hard to have the stentorian "voice of God" like Bob Shepherd did...and came across sounding more like a minor league guy. Abrams, I feel, fits the Twins park well. Approachable Midwestern works for me.

Adam abrams wasnt there? Hallelujah. The guy is a dud and should go back to KOOL 108

Some possible clues to the new Vikings' stadium design. Clicky.

I noticed the different PA guy immediately as well Fiesta. My wife, on the other hand, thought it was the same guy (Mars, Venus I guess). I didn't like him.

I think they should try to digitally reproduce Bob Casey's voice and play it on the loudspeakers. AA? Screw him. As far as I am concerned, Bob Casey IS the ONLY PA voice of the Twins. Period.

Well, things change, people die, we move on. Most of us do, anyway.

For all you scorekeepers out there, Bethany Heck--a young graphic designer out of Auburn--has designed another winner of a scorebook. Join the kickstarter movement to help it get to the printer. Baseball deserves great design!

Lets hope Larry is head down elbows up fixing that field! Cmon Larry you got almost 2 weeks to get this field looking good. And how bout a different grass pattern?? You can do it Larry Boy!

I posted my OD 2013 panorama below. For many reasons I believe it is my best one to date. To get a better look, click the link in my name and view Large by hitting L on your keyboard once the page loads. Enjoy!

Jared - you should sell that picture. In fact, if you do, let me know. That is awesome!

Outstanding Jared. Did you have a photog pass to get that close?

Nice pic Jared, well done.

Has anyone seen the field in Detroit? Larry would be disappointed. Actually probably happy because it makes TF look immaculate.

I agree Tigers grass looked horrible also. I can't imagine what TF will look like after that goat roping concert again! I still see large areas in CF and RF that look terrrrrrrrrrible on my 52 inch HD set. Yes I want a different cut pattern! I think it's maybe beyond Larry Boys scope however. FCOL!

Rick is it possible to remove certain posters from the feed so I dont have to read the same shit over and over again?

I was at the game Sat and the only large spot I noticed was in CF where the pattern couldn't even get cut into it, but I didn't think it looked terrible. It was still nice and green, it just couldn't hold the cut pattern.

The field had endured a couple major snowfalls within a week, removal of said snow, and then a doubleheader played on it when it was probably still fairly wet, at least under the turf. The playability of the field for that doubleheader alone speaks highly of Larry and his crew and their competence at field maintenance.

Inane commentery also tends to reveal (in)competence...

Ok I'll lay off the grass and Larry boy! How do you think the Mild do tonight in Chitown?

Wow...I was going to agree with Luke on the PA guy, Adams sucks, so does the dopey Carsoup guy. Then he goes and proposes trying to reproduce Bob Casey's voice, who himself was a hack. Gross.

JoJo, the little guy with the green shirt and the red X is your friend.

Thanks DreDogg, Twinfan isnt so bad, It would be nice to use the green guy with X for Luke, but his comments are like a car wreck sometimes, you cant NOT look, I would miss it I think!

As a percussionist(e.g., not much of a musician), I wonder what you hear in Sue's "Take me out" that is so grating, Rick. Nothing is standing out for me as I think back to past games. I, for one, am not a fan of "Take me out" being the "Lexus 7th Inning Stretch."

How do you compare Sue, in general, with Ronnie Newman?

Bob Casey, the Angry PA Announcer. Ronnie Newman. Those are some nostalgic names from the past. Anyone old enough to remember Willie Peterson, the first Met stadium organist? I don't expect Rick to respond; today is May Day so I'm sure he must have some "Commie" rally to attend - either that or lead a protest of the lawn mowing at Target Field.

My first game at the Met was summer of 1966. Not sure if Willie was on the pipes or not. I do remember Ronnie and of course the living legend Casey. A few years latter I can remember somebody spelling out F*ck You with beer cups on the fencing below the LF bleachers in the picnic section! What a hoot. Would always buy the cheap 3rd base bleacher seat and by the 2nd inning was sitting in the box seats behind home plate!

My first game at the old Met was in 1969 or 1970 and Jimmy Holt hit an homerun in extra innings and we won 2-1. Went to a lot more games of all types in the 70's and always enjoyed the games and the experiences.

Interesting ATL local news story showing some of the concept art for the new Falcons stadium. Hope the Vikings are as forward thinking as the dirty birds appear to be.

Today, I'm happy the Twins are on the road. 37 degrees, rain & snow here, fans in Detroit in shirtsleeves.

I am so sick of this winter!

Neil Diamond - horrible. Scott Diamond - on his game today!

May 1'st and ground/trees have fresh layer of white stuff, fun!

YAY! The Cubs are gonna leave the NorthSide Urinal that is Wrigley!

...Well, okay, it is just a threat...for now.

Beautiful renderings. If the Wrig is on the Natl Historical Register, it might not be after said renovations (Soldier Field suffered the same fate).
Ricketty Split isnt going to move the Cubbies. Chicago would riot. And it would cost alot less to renovate than to build new.

Leaving Wrigley Field might be the best thing for the Cubs. As it currently stands, they sell out almost every game simply due to the (dubious) virtues of their ballpark and its neighborhood. They don’t have to make strides toward championships when they’ve created a mystique about their ballpark and Cubs fans as being “real” baseball fans. It’s all hogwash, or course, but enough people have bought into it that the Cubs are nearly maxing out on their revenue potential without having to worry about fielding a competitive team. All they need to do is look like they’re trying, and they’ve accomplished that by running up a huge payroll with nothing to show for it. The curse theory has proven to be insidious, and all too often we still hear about how the franchise is cursed. Why bother to improve when you have a beloved ballpark that’s still a place to be seen and a built-in explanation as to why the team constantly comes up short?

The Cubs have no incentive to become winners. What they need is to play in a crappy venue like the Metrodome, then they’d have to put a competitive product on the field in order to draw the kinds of crowds they’re used to failing in front of now.

Why not sell the Metrodome to the Cubs and ship it piece by piece to Chicago for the Cubs to call home? Put it in a rough neighborhood and the Cubs will then find out who the real baseball fans are.

+1 Winona, I think you hit it right on the head. Not to mention, if we sold them the dome, that could cover the extra cost (or maybe a pane of glass and some framing) of a worthless retractable feature everyone is asking for!

I'm not sure I can wholly agree with the characterization of a sliding window feature as "worthless." Several years ago, I went to a Twins game in Milwaukee and they played with the roof closed due to the threat of rain. The rain came, but having the windows in the outfield open kept plenty of fresh air moving through the building, which I greatly appreciated.

Im with you winona, I was just being a little over-facetious.

On another note, how about that Metro snowstorm (or lack thereof)? It's so awesome seeing how much 50-100 miles in driving distance can completely change a forecast. With such a narrow band of intense snow even a small shift in the system is just enough. That my friends is the challenge of forecasting.

Winona - sellouts are mostly a thing of the past at Wrigley. 6 yrs ago tickets were scarce. Since 2008 their capacity has been:

2008 99.1%
2009 96.3
2010 92.0
2011 90.5
2012 86.5
2013 77.0 (I imagine April has always been a tougher sell there)

I was there 2 summers ago for a weeknight game in June and bought tickets on the street for face value and there were plenty available.

Even with those numbers dropping they are still top 10 in baseball for average attendance and % filled, but they are sliding. My guess is that some of the locals are tired of the losing and are staying away. The "tourism" aspect of Wrigley remains fairly strong.

Agree re the sloppiness of the recent Neil Diamond performance but in fairness, it was not a planned event. He just showed up, called the front office, said he was there and asked if he could sing his song. The tech staff can probably be forgiven for not having an in-ear monitor ready to go...

14 inches of snow where I live and still snowing. Supposed to coach my baseball team in a doubleheader tomorrow - don't think that will be happening!! All of you in the Cities dodged the bullet this time, I guess.

Where you at Ole??? Wrong call Dahl just a tad off on the dry line for the cities! LOL!

Kasson, MN. About 15 miles west of Rochester.

I want to go beat up that groundhog in Pennsylvania or do something to vent my frustration! This has been the spring-from-hell.

Terry I have my sawed off shotgun all ready. I am gonna go shoot the stupid thing.

Sun is out here in Bloomington and no snow on the ground!

Still snowing here. About a foot on the ground.

Terry what town are you in? I spoke with a guy in Southern Minnesota today who stunned me by saying they got about 14 inches of snow from this storm. There's literally not a new flake on the ground in Minneapolis. The only snow is from the diminishing parking lot glaciers.

The Cubs have no intention of leaving Wrigley Field. This is all part of the dance to get what they want for renovations. That park is the difference between the team having a national following along with being the second team for many fans and being the White Sox who have a nice fanbase, but mean essentially nothing nationally. I'll only grant this. The threat of moving to the burbs may be a way of softening the landing for the idea of knocking down Wrigley to put a replacement on the site.

Regarding attendance, the Cubs' attendance peaked in 2008 due to the team winning the NL Central for the second straight season. Subsequent declines, have coincided with the recession and the team failing to finish above .500 since the 2009 season, culminating in a 61-101 fiasco last season. That run has contributed to poor attendance this season in combination with Chicago having nearly as bad a spring as us. Bad as the decline looks, 2012 was the first time the Cubs failed to draw 3,000,000 plus fans since 2003 and the 2012 mark was bigger than any season in Cubs history prior to 2003.

Luke with a shotgun, sawed-off or otherwise, is a thought that keeps me up at night.

Guns and I get along real well Winona. I am insured by Smith and Wesson ;). Love the NRA (now that Moses doesnt run it).

You must be a congressman.

They wouldnt want me to do that. I would be the first borderline Anarchist to hold a Congressional seat :).

Joel - how many games has your 8th grade team played so far?

Not to stir the pot but holy cow, Wrigley turf...woof. And Twinkfan thought TF was bad. And it was either Detroit's or Chicago White Sox' (maybe both) that was looking pretty rough and cut up the other day too. So can we stop with the knocks on the grounds crew? They are clearly no worse than anyone else.

Any idea on when that Wrigley pic is from Jared? Based on the highlights I saw this weekend from Wrigley, the ivy has not greened up yet. It is very green in that pic you have linked.

Stevie- Its from mid-last season.

So while it isn't from this season (and my point not well articulated initially) my thoughts were:it is still representative of other grounds crew's struggles managing turf. Twinfan has been picking that scab almost since day 1 at TF so I thought it relevant to bring up to hush the whining a bit.

The argument that "all other teams GC are better" is holds far less weight with that image. Especially because its a place like Wrigley. It's not covered. Plenty of sunglight. No real shade issues to deal with. They have events (which could have been the cause of the replacement in the image) but you can see what old, versus new is like and how dry their grass can look like too. TF has a few more things to worry about and comes out looking no worse than anywhere else.

A quick search reveals other stadiums having issues as well. Marlins park being the big news lately that they, "shockingly", are having a hard time keeping grass green in a covered stadium. I found an interesting article about replacing the infield at Safeco. The guy there said they could play on it forever but they target a 10 year replacement cycle and that it is hard to donate because the sand base basically makes the grass crumble when it comes up. Thought that was interesting since artificial turf has like a 7 year replacement cycle or something. Not that they would use turf in the majors anymore but for other sports, its an interesting tidbit.

Wow, probably way more of a response than you wanted Stevie but I just thought all that would be interesting to note.

Jared I watched some games from Wrigley this year on TV and the field looks great. And yes the ivy was the give away. I gave Larry a pass the first year or until he changed from the traditional check cut. And they should never allow those silly goat roping concerts or hockey games on that field! Larry doesn't need the added burden!

I just did a search and found that Wrigley hosted Roger Waters on Jun 8 last year, Brad Paisley on Jun 9 and Bruce Springsteen on Sept 7. This must have been taken following one of those weekends. All MLB GC face varying issues and events and will continue to do so. Any major concert or weather events can lead to a temporary disruption of the beauty of the field, but a good GC will recover and get it back fairly quickly. I think the TF crew is showing themselves to be more than capable.

Perhaps the problem in Miami is that there is not enough carbon dioxide being generated inside the ballpark...

Fair point Jared, but do those cities proclaim that their groundskeeping crew walks on water? That's what I take most issue with.

The point has been amply made.

15 strikeouts is what did them in last night. A couple of productive outs here and there would have been very welcome. Of course the fielders don't have to move and disturb the grass pattern if everyone is striking out.

200 tickets available to the public a few hours before the unveiling of the Vikes stadium. "Clinky" (Link + clicky...oy). :)

I should take that day off and camp outside the Dumpty to see if I can snag a ducat to the unveiling. The caveat: just one ticket per person. May 13 will be a banner day in Minnesota sports history.

That could be quite the sight. The staid and refined Guthrie Theater invaded by a couple hundred face-painted, Skol-singing Vikings fans.

Do they allow tailgating at the Guthrie?

Looks like the Marlins will be closing the upper decks of there stadium for A time. Guess the saying if you build it they will come isnt always true click the link for story

The Marlins should give their fans a break and close off the lower seating bowl instead, so the handful of fans that show up won’t have to pay lower bowl prices.

I really like that diamond pattern grass cut at Fenway! Think Larry could ever do this?? I doubt it! Field looked in great shape. I bet they don't have goat roping concerts in there? Can we take the series today? Bats are ALIVE!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to let you down but Fenway hosts the concerts too (clicky). More than once during the season, even. Not every park uses a checkerboard pattern, get over it. Maybe Larry reads this board and will never do it just to piss you off.

I wish Larry read my comments! Sure looked Purdy last night! I'm sure Fenway won't look the same post July though!

It will be interesting to see what happens in Miami with the Dolphins' stadium situation following the debacle that was Marlins Park.

Will the people of Miami cave in to the "LA threats" and renovate Dolphins Stadium/build a new stadium or will they let the Dolphins leave?

Ironic in all of this was that the Dolphins were in Miami long before the Marlins existed and now the Dolphins might suffer from the actions of Jeff Loria and the Marlins Ballpark fiasco.

When will our pill popping Gov announce the secret funding mechanism??

I knew the Miami "ballpark" was going to falter in its second year.

Why the quotation marks, Luke? Am I missing some finer point of Luke Irony here?

Winona, that place looks like a warehouse on steroids. They should be docking planes in there. Its not a ballpark, its a space station. Thats why the quotation marks.

I always thought it looked like a George Foreman Grill.

Having been there, it is a very nice ballpark.

Pill popping? That's disgustingly bigoted. Just stop.

T-Minus 3 days until there are new stadium designs to drool over!!!

What are the chances these plans are leaked over the weekend?

anyone email the twins for anything today? the two contacts i have there i get a bounceback saying undeliverable. Hmm, maybe my account as been canceled... could be a good thing.

Winona! By George (no pun intended) I think you just found the new title sponsor for the Miami Ballpark!

BTW I can't wait for Ricks first post on the Vikes stadium design

RAISE YOUR HAND NOW FOR A CHANCE TO SERVE ON THE 2013 TWINS SEASON TICKET HOLDER ADVISORY COUNCIL

Should I feel special?

A somewhat Guggenheim-esque proposal for the Warriors arena across the Bay. I like the idea of actually incorporating a window to the outside world (not just the sky) which is something often ignored in the mostly capsulated, status-quo, arena designs.

Does anybody know the best Gate to go to if you want the best chance to get a free give-away but not wait in line for hours? Thanks. I'm also looking forward to Rick's views on the new Vikes Stadium.

Did I spot the building from “The Towering Inferno” in the background in those renderings?

I would say gate 14 would be your best bet for shorter lines. Unless you have access to one of the premium entrances, like the skyway club entrance. Or if your really lucky the Champions club entrance.

Attended the game on Friday night. Does anybody know what happened in the first inning to the gal in Section Q of the Legends Club? She was going for a foul ball and it looked like she fell to the next row. (Still in the Legends Club). They took her out on a stretcher.

They were still handing out bobbleheads at 6:15 at gates 6 & 3.

I was at the ball yard last night. First time this season I did not have to dress as though going on a polar expedition. Bad arithmetic for the night though; eleven strikeouts and two "official" errors by the Twins and seven doubles and eighteen hits for the O's. Those are bad numbers.

I bet that woman wishes she had just taken $12 over to Dick's (now I'm going to get jumped for being "jaded" again).

There were still folks coming up the elevator towards the TBT with boxes in their hands at nearly 6:30.

My guess is the Warriors' new arena, which still has some ways to go en route to happening, will look considerably less ambitious in reality vs. prospect.

I'm okay with "retractable elements", namely big windows in the endzones like in Indy. However, the Vikings had better be ready for some disappointment and backlash over having a fixed roof instead of a fully retractable one. The team has dropped some hints and clues in order to soften the landing, but for some fans opening the ends instead of the top won't be nearly good enough.

Well even retractable roofs on newer NFL stadiums only are partial. Dallas, Indy, Phoenix...the roof basically just covers the field. A fully retractable roof is out of the question. The cost would be enormous.

However, the new retractable roof on the BC Place Stadium in Vancouver is pretty awesome, it folds back like an awning. Its made out of the same material as the Dumptys roof is made out of. Check it out on YouTube. I think a fixed roof would save money on the project, as you don't need the hydraulics and tracks and pulleys needed for a retractable roof.

Was at the game tonight and about mid-game a member of the raptor family, who may or may not have been the famous Kirby the Kestrel from the 2010 season, flew over the left field corner and then departed the stadium right over our seats in 323. Anyone else see it?

I saw a bird a couple of times Friday night. Didn't get a close enough look for a positive ID but was small like a Kestrel and had the appropriate wing flap and flight behavior.

Is the Kestrel back??!!?? Remember there was one that would show up in the early days of TF and would usually park itself on the RF foul pole. I bet Rick remembers.

Can someone explain the allure of a retractable "feature" like a large window or door? How does that add to the gameday experience, exactly? Without a retactable roof as well, does it really make you feel like you're outdoors? Does it bring in any real outside element? I don't think I've been in a such a stadium so I'm having a hard time envisioning its effect and, thus, value.

The Twins bring to mind Tom Kelly's axiom that you will win one third of your games, lose one third of them and that it's what you do in the remaining third that determines success. Lately in three game series the Twins have been winning one game (yesterday); losing one badly (today) and losing one they should/could have won (Friday). Same pattern occurred in the Detroit and Cleveland series. Hope that changes.

As I’ve stated here before recently, I was at Miller Park on a rainy evening and they had the sliding windows beyond the outfield seats open. Even with the roof closed, plenty of fresh air came in and it made the evening more pleasant. We could even enjoy that smell of approaching rain. I imagine a warm August evening or a beautiful September day when being inside an enclosed stadium could be made a much more enjoyable time with some fresh air circulating throughout the stadium.

I would disagree with the idea that such windows are merely geegaws.

Winona:
Does Miller Park have more than one bank of windows, to allow for air flow? I could see that, I guess. It'd be like some airports in tropical cities that are bascially breezeways: covered but open-sided. That could work. Odd to think that design would be significantly less expensive than a "sunroof"...

Big day on the Vikings stadium front.....My hope is that the new design is something daring, bold and original. I don't want to see Lucas Oil Stadium 2.0. No brick, no exposed steel girders, in other words, SAY NO TO RETRO!!!.

I'm leery of the use of the plastic ETFE. Could look really cool or really cheap, and I don't know if we know how it will wear over time.

I'm just hoping it will be unique and have clear "Minnesota" elements that work better than, say, the grassy mounds in front of the federal courthouse. If it's as good as TF, I'll be happy.

It sounds like we're getting yet another Minnesota public building that incorporates Kasota Limestone in to the exterior.

The remake of The Italian Job is about a decade old, so the statute of limitations on spoilers has expired. I bring it up because Mark Wahlberg's character has a confronation with Ed Norton's character that's relevant to what may be afoot with the Vikings Stadium design.

Norton, Wahlberg, and numerous other characters committed a gold heist, only for Norton to screw his partners and make off with the loot. Wahlberg and company plot a course for revenge and reclaiming their lost, if ill-gotten, fortune. In the confrontation, Wahlberg informs Norton that pulling off the plan was easy because Norton was so predictable. He goes on to mention that Norton lacks any original thought whatsoever, to the point that Norton had all that money, but no idea what to do with it. To that point, all of Norton's spendy possessions were items his former comrades had said they'd buy with the loot.

In relation to the above, while light years ahead of the Metrodome, I'm getting the feeling the new Vikings stadium will incorporate a bit of Lucas Oil Stadium, a bit of Cowboys Stadium, a bit of Target Field, a bit of the Xcel Energy Center, and bits of several other stadiums. However, I'm guessing it won't look unique. HKS, of course, is designing the stadium, but the client always has a significant amount of input. I echo the thought that the Wilfs and Bagley don't have much creativity, so we're likely to see a park that grabs elements of many, possibly missing out on its own identity in the process.

Jorge, I've seen the design. And yes it has certain elements from other stadiums. However, it is definitely unique.

Rick, I think the design does capture some of your hopes you listed.

Many of the things that make a sports venue good from the fan's perspective are very basic and not very glamorous. Are the seats wide enough? Is there sufficient leg room? Can you get to concessions and rest rooms easily? Those aren't the kinds of things that attract media attention, but if you're a fan in the stands they are pretty important. As we all know the dome, in addition to being an aethetic nightmare, failed miserably on all these criteria.

Will today's event be the end-all in terms of the design of the Vikings stadium, or will enhancements or changes still come before the October groundbreaking? There are some design features of TF that were in the original design, but are not present: I.e. the restaurant in. center field. The admin building is also a tad different than the design concepts announced in 2007.

I have a feeling that i as a supporter for a retractable roof will be sorely disappointed tonight. I hope that the design will be something we can live with and they have not tried to screw it up which is something that might happen.

I'm maybe a little too old-fashioned. I go to a venue to see what the venue is presenting. So, what is important to me is comfort, legroom, etc. as suggested above. What it looks like while approaching is secondary and I couldn't care less whether goat sandwiches are available.

We do know this so far:

fixed roof
retractable wall/window on the west side facing downtown
a lot of glass will be featured

Why are so many wanting a retractable roof for a football stadium? Has anyone ever been to Lucas Oil Stadium, Reliant Stadium Cowboys Stadium or University of Phoenix Stadium? The roofs are rarely open and you are really not sitting outside. The only open part of the roof is basically over the field itself.

I don't need a retractable roof. They'll only play 10 games (plus playoffs!). Most of the other events that they'll hold there will not need to be open-air. It's far more important it be high quality, functional, and something the community can build around. Spend the money on wider seats, electronics, quality building materials, and plaza amenities.

And Rick, two reasons why college games should be outdoors: Hearing the roar of the crowd on campus, and no December-January games/weather.

Rick~
If only the NIMBY neighborhood associations around the U agreed with you!

Given a choice, I would prefer open air. But I also understand that in order to get this thing built, it has to be the "People's Stadium" and available 365 days a year.

I've yet to see a retractable roofed football stadium that I'm a real fan of. So my expectations are really low that we'll see anything earthshattering when it comes to a retractable anything.

I'm more interested to see how this stadium fits in that area of downtown.

I just dont want to see a carbon copy..be it a copy of Indy, Houston, Phoenix, Jones Palace in Dallas. I want to see some originality, creativity and definitely not Metrodome Redux.

Wow! All I can say is WOW!

That sure ain't Lucas Oil Stadium.

Well...it's most definitely bold and original. I'm very impressed so far.

I like it but the giant glass doors are pointless. They're only on half of the west end and get lost in the busy angles.

I like it. It's DEFINITELY unique. I am duly impressed. Guess I better sign up for season tickets...lol. AND, baseball didn't look overtly awful and intrusive. I GUESS I can let that go.
The video boards don't look as large as they made them sound they were going to be. Obviously they're going to be bigger than what we have now.
I am also glad they didn't do the center-hung video board thing.

It looks like a mega-church, which may be appropriate as it will be filled on Sundays.

Had the same thought, TTH - the Crystal Cathedral in CA came to mind.

I like it - if that roof is executed as-rendered, it seems it will provide more of a sense of being outdoors as a fixed roof facility than many of the current retractable roof facilities.

I like the design too, but I do have a question. It appears the baseball diamond will face North-Northwest,so if its past 5 or 6 in the afternoon how bad will the sun affect the right fielder trying to see the baseball? I would think he would not be able to catch the easily with the sun right in his line of sight.

It doesn't excite me. But, I'm also not much of a football fan. Definitely looks like a big church.

The huge panels of outside walls with nothing on them are pretty boring. At least Target Field has variations of limestone and windows to break up the giant walls.

Biggest snicker from me is the image of the Gopher baseball game with the stands full of people!

Remember F_T_K the three most important things in life: Church, football and guns. The stadium covers the first two...lol

With all of the triangular faces I see a bit of the McNamara Alumni Center at the U.

I had that same thought; I just couldn't come up with the name.

I was also reminded of that scavenger vehicle in the original Star Wars movie.

Well, it is definitely unique, no argument there. I'm not sure what to think of the design. I neither love it or hate it. Really, I want to see much, much more before forming a firm opinion. Although I'm disappointed over the use of endzone video boards instead of a central set of screens above the field as in Dallas, all the other improvements to amenities and basic have me raring to go. Honestly, it blows my mind that this is actually happening. I figured we'd be talking about 2014 legislature stadium campaigns with full LA pressure getting turned up, note preparing for a new stadium.

When you are looking at the north side of the stadium, from the north, it looks like a giant ship in some ways. Or a giant "Noah's Ark"

I like the fact that its unique and different. This stadium is going to feel more outdoors than any other domed or retractable roof stadium with all of the glass and natural light.

Still too early to judge the design fully, but it appears to be your typical NFL stadium with lots of club seats and suites meaning the "cheap seats" are pushed very high up. And as a result of the glass/windows on the west side of the stadium, the average fan lost out on some opportunities for additional "cheap seats" high above the west endzone. So for the average fan looking for affordable tickets, you are more than likely out of luck, which is no surprise considering the #1 priority from the Vikings is to maximize revenues with suites, club seats and other premium areas.

I like what I see so far and am pleasantly surprised and look forward to reviewing the renderings more in depth.

The most important part, climate controlled, is there. So I'm happy! All the rest is mostly fluff. Yes, being outdoors is great when its nice out, but the days when the weather is perfect, sunny 65-75 dry with a light breeze, are few and far between.

What it looks like from the outside really isn't that important. The only thing you don't want is something that sticks out like a sore thumb. Ideally most buildings will mesh well with their surroundings. My first thought of this design, it will stick out strongly. Whether it's a sore thumb or not will be up to the beholder. I think it will stick out way more then the dome, but will hopefully look nice.

I don't think it will spawn much development. If that was your main concern you should of pushed hard for Arden Hills and ZygiVille.

Jorge center hung video display? In a stadium where they are forcing baseball to be played? Now THAT is dumb.
Even punts were hitting the screen in Dallas and they don't force baseball to be played in the Palace that Jerry Jones Built.
The boards at the USBank Stadium are still going to be 100 x 100. Dallas' boards are 180 feet long. So essentially they will be more than half the size at USBS

As ludicrous as the center hung idea is, you have to think that HKS might have prepared for the possibility because of the single steel support in the center of the roof. They might have considered that is the Vikings didn't suck up to John Anderson and his cronies.

HOWEVER they did say this will be the most versatile stadium in the world. That I think is something we can be proud of.

People keep talking about the "wow factor" for this proposed stadium.

I'll tell you what would "wow" me - if the people who will profit from it pay for it.

luke~
Actually, the video boards will be 120x50, so you're only off by 4000 sq feet.

Rick~
I hadn't looked at that exterior image long enough to have the position of the sun register. Hilarious! At least that particular creative license is less likely to result in geographically challenged folks being disappointed than the skyline in center field renderings of Target Field was.

All in all, I'm leaning towards liking the stadium design. The walls made it feel a little closed off on the back and sides and the clear roof on one side thing feels a little wrong to my more symmetrical sensibilities, but neither of those are huge things.

My two favorite things about it are: 1) that if executed as pictured, the stadium should feel much more open than any other domed/retractable stadium thanks to the clear roof and 2) that the team didn't go for a generic Lucas Oil retread. This is definitely more unique, and I'm all for that. Not quite as unique as the Oculus concept in Atlanta, but again, I think the feel of this one will be better than that retractable concept.

I'm not a big shiny metal and glass fan, but this is an imaginative and unique design. Echoes the Weisman and the D/T Central Library. Shoots for iconic in the same way the Guthrie does.

But iconic does not translate into community cornerstone very well. Nothing about the building itself invites connections to other development (in the way that a Mission/Prairie-style design might have). But it's a huge sports facility not a park. The connections and development fostering are going to have to rely on the plaza and surrounding streetscape designs, I think.

Some other questions:

- Do you think they'll have some kind of snow removal system for the roof? Not going to see much sun if there are 5 inches of snow up there.

- Will there be other ways to enter/exit the staidum than the big glass doors? If the weather's nasty, they're not going to want those open at all, are they?

- Have they released any street-level pictures or design descriptions? What will people actually see at eye level when they approach and encircle the stadium? TF did a nice job of building in features like the murals on 5th Street.

I think this blows away any other fixed roof football stadium in play, and most of the retractable roofs as well due to the amount of natural sunlight that will fill the interior. If you can't be outside in the elements, the next best thing is to look out a window at the elements.

I wonder if there will be any wind issues when the big doors are open? Could this be a novelty we'll rarely see because the kickers and quarterbacks will complain?

I think this blows away any other fixed roof football stadium in play, and most of the retractable roofs as well due to the amount of natural sunlight that will fill the interior. If you can't be outside in the elements, the next best thing is to look out a window at the elements.

I wonder if there will be any wind issues when the big doors are open? Could this be a novelty we'll rarely see because the kickers and quarterbacks will complain?

BR-

The first thing the guy from HKS said was that the roof was designed to keep snow off. How it does that is probably a combination of sun, the steep slope of the roof, as well as the material that makes up the roof.

According to "New Vikings Stadium Facts & Figures" at vikings.com, the doors opening to downtown will be the "largest glass pivoting doors in the world."

I've been hoping for awhile for a building which can lay claim to that title. Finally, gloriously, it's ours.

On a serious note - another question about the roof (which I like more and more every time I look at the rendering...): will there be a way to "draw the shade" over the transparent part? Is such functionality even necessary? I'm guessing the answer to both questions is "no," which is fine by me.

Well...I heard 10,000 square feet...so naturally that's 100x100 there GoaUpher

And I didnt know how high the board was in Dallas

And I didnt know how high the board was in Dallas

I have a feeling the exterior will look a lot better in real life compared to these renderings. The limestone exterior should give the building some depth, and texture. Overall I think I like how this looks, and I am super excited to watch amateur baseball for $5-10 underneath a sunny Feburary 2017 sky!

Well, talk about surrounding development has begun. Click the link.

Interesting....I like the idea of creating more green space in the urban core. This kind of looks like a mini-Central Park in the heart of the Minny Apple.

I'm curious to know how the skyway system will be connected....The new stadium looks to be at least 3 blocks away from the main skyway systems, and in between looks to be parking lots or other flat spaces.

Luke, good point about a centrally positioned scoreboard causing issues during baseball games. My first thought in reaction to that is it would be sad if a compromise on scoreboard position was made to baseball when it's football that pays the freight.

Regardless of the scoreboard's position, here are a few numbers to digest. The two Vikings scoreboards will be 50 x 120. Target Field's board in upper left is 57 x 101. The two scoreboards facing the sidelines on the centralized module at Cowboys Stadium are 72 x 160 (the two endzone facing boards are smaller). Some might say the boards in Dallas are obnoxiously large, but in NFL circles, bigger is better. The Vikings boards, given their position and frequency of use, are too small given the new standards.

Thanks for crunching the numbers Jorge. Yeah..seems like they are small given current standards.
Here is another question: how big is the scoreboard at TCFBS? I am curious about the overall display size as well as the structure itself. I am thinking that if the overall scoreboard structure at TCFBS is about the size of the display at the new stadium, then yes, it is going to be small. Given the size of the stadium and the angle slope of the roof.

luke~
Other than the sq footage being 12,000sqft not 10,000 and it being distributed across 2 boards of equal size, you were right on. =)

Agree that they seem small. I did a quick Wiki check and those boards are of a size that puts them around #20 overall. That said, they'll be #4 in size for NFL venues when completed. The scoreboard at TCFBS is 5184sqft (108x48) and TF is 5757sqft (101x57).

So in the end the scoreboards could be larger, but they aren't really small either.

Rick~
Even if you're on the opposite endzone from the only board visible to you, they should be big enough to give you a decent/good view of things.

That said, I don't think they are big enough to compete in a world where HDTV is king and everyone is trying to sell the in stadium experience as better. All you have to do is look at some of the Atlanta concept art on those 360 boards to see that 2 big but not huge boards aren't going to stack up over the long run.

Functional but not fantastic is how I'd describe these boards.

Looking at the rankings, the Vikings (counting each of the two boards individually) will rank #6. The Cowboys, Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, and Patriots come in larger. It's admittedly a steep drop from there and the Vikes will have two big boards as opposed to the customary one. I wish they'd have gone bigger, especially since any stadium from the 1990s/2000s that can will in the near future. I predict 50 x 120 won't be considered big by mid next decade. However, given the need to place the boards at mid-level in order to keep it close for the lower deck seats, club areas, and boxes, a bigger board would mean a much higher upper deck and greater construction expenses.

Somehow I missed the Broncos and Titans. My bad.

SUBMITTED for your approval: There have been those who have commented that the new stadium looks like a megachurch. Others have compared it to the Crystal Cathedral. WELL, I have done some searching. Those who mention the Crystal Cathedral are not that far off base.
Clinky for Exhibit A.
Exhibit B: CrystalCathedral

I lurk at SkyscraperCity.com, a vast message board concerning architecture, buildings, construction, urban planning, and other such things. It features a large sports stadium sub board. On it, in the Vikings stadium thread, several posters have noticed a large truss at the non pivoting window end that appears to obstruct a good number of views. Now admittedly this is based on looking at the renderings and still shots of the flyover video. Both are pretty crude and don't necessarily offer proper perspective. This may be much ado about nothing. However, it's something worth watching as this process goes along.

Obstructed Views in New Vikings Stadium?

Used to be, on fancy airplanes, that you could watch in-flight moveis on central screens hung from the aisle ceiling. A few of those planes still exist. But 15 years ago, they started moving to individual in-seat screens mounted in the headrest of the seat in front of you. Lots of those planes still fly, and offer in-seat entertainment particularly on internaional and cross-country flights.

But the move now is toward individual hand-held screens (or wi-fi access for your own screens). That's where all entertainment is heading - you control the personal device, you pick what highlights to watch, what stats to pull up, etc.

Huge video screens? They'll be anachronistic soon enough, used mostly to show cartoon clapping hands to remind people that they're in a stadium full of other people. So don't worry too much that Jerry's screen in Big D will be bigger than ours...

I love the new stadium! I think the thoughts about the scoreboards seeming too small seem spot on. I bet we see some adjustments in the final product. They did mention that there are going to be 1200 (?) HD screens around the concourses.

I really am excited about the combination of the new stadium and the Star Tribune blocks redevelopment. The new park will be awesome. I hear it will be the new place to tailgate before the game.

It's going to be an exciting few years to see everything happen on the east side of downtown.

The video screens are the least of my worries. They can always put bigger ones in.

I know people are excited about the Star Tribune blocks being redeveloped around the stadium, but this plan won't happen until Wells Fargo or someone else comes forward to occupy those office buildings.

I'm really surprised people think 12,000 sq ft seems too small. Each will be larger than TF and there will be two of them! Plus all the ribbon boards.

At the end towards downtown, the renderings seem to show available space for a larger board. However, the other end won't be so easy. Sorry about being overly hung up on this one aspect of the stadium. However, I want this stadium to be as advanced as possible and worry about the Vikings unnecessarily hemming themselves in on this point.

Still on the fence with this design. Seems to me that a building's architechure holds several purposes, but one should be that the design "says" what the building's purpose is. I'm not sure this design does that. From the exterior, it may be extremely difficult to tell that this is even a football stadium. (Megachurch? Performing arts center?) Perhaps the actual building will prove me wrong, but the exterior renderings make me think that this building is anything BUT a football stadium.

Here's a link to Forsyth Barr Stadium in Dunedin, New Zealand. It holds about 32,000 and exists on a much smaller scale than the Vikings new stadium will. However, it has a clear, fixed roof made from the same material, ETFE, that the Vikings new home will use. On that basis, it's worth checking out.

Forsyth Stadium at Wikipedia

Google Image Search Results for Forsyth Barr Stadium

Forsyth Barr Stadium - Official Website

Forsyth Barr Stadium - Skyscrapercity Thread

A blog about Forsyth Barr Stadium that often takes a critical view of its financing, location, and other related factors as well other local issues not directly related to stadiums.

TTH-

I'm probably in the minority when I say that I don't see why the design needs to "say" football stadium. I'm looking at many stadiums recently opened in other countries, and I like the fact that they aren't obvious sports stadiums. I think it's refreshing that the Vikings are willing to break the mold, to a certain extent, and design something original. I would've been upset if we were building Lucas Oil Stadium 2.0 or anything similar to that.

Jorge-

Thanks for the links. Very interesting to see all the natural light filling that stadium.

How about those blankets to help out with the temp (92) at the game last night. Anyone notice they changed from "fleece" to "picnic" blankets?

Wow Forsyth Stadium has A real grass field didnt know that was possible guess it can be done.

One big greenhouse, I guess.

Can you imagine Larry boy trying to grow that in the new queens stadium?? Be all dirt in about 6 months!

If it was all dirt, at least we wouldn't have to lsten to the incessant blathering about the pattern of the mowing.

Just to interrupt the Vikings stadium discussion and return to a prior topic for a minute...

I was looking at tix for this weekend and reviewing the "demand pricing" system that the Twins are using. It's got me a bit confused. They have 15 different seating categories, and 15 corresponding price levels. Comparing Friday night's prices in the various levels to Saturday's, Saturday's tix were generally but not universally more expensive. Tix in 10 of the seating categories are more expensive Saturday than Friday. That suggests that more tix are being sold for Saturday, that demand is higher. Ok, makes sense.

But tix cost the same in 2 seating areas and are actually cheaper in 3 areas. So Home plate box costs $76 Friday and $81 on Saturday, but Home Run Porch Terrace costs $37 Friday and just $31 on Saturday.

The team's pricing program must be looking at demand on a seating area-by-seatng area basis. But I have to say, as a fan, that makes very little sense to me. I understand fluctuating demand based on game/day but not by seating area. I think the number of seats sold for a given game in a given area has more to do with group sales frankly than with individual buying preferences. So, for example, if I'm willing to pay $30 for a ticket, I'll try to get the "best" seat I can, but if I select Left Field Bleachers it doesn't necessarily mean that I like that particular section more than the HR Porch Terrace, just that it was cheaper when I bought the tix and within my price range. It seems, though, that "demand pricing" looks at that purchase and adjusts the price in that area to reflect lower supply and higher "demand."

Makes theoretical, Economics 101 sense but ignores reality, imo. I think that the latter part of the equation is fundamentally flawed, as the "demand" that the team sees - in that particular seating area, compared to other areas - is largely based on price. If they increase the price in that area, people with the same $30 limit as I had will either buy in a different area or - and this is the kicker -not at all.

In other words, I think the demand-based pricing system is too complicated. It's seeing distinctions with no real meaning and adjusting prices incorrectly.

Or I just don't get it.

Buy the cheap seat and sit anywhere you want. Just like the good old days at the Met. Look for a huge empty section or sections and plop on down there.

Did I miss a post about the new mowing pattern?

It is the old pattern, but significantly fewer strips. A line of 5 rows up the middle and into the outfield, and one set of ~5 strips going out to each outfield wall.

I had to look at pics of the old one to see how it was different, but sure enough it is. Go Larry!

BR,

totally with you. I hate the large range of prices and trying to figure "demand", well they have gone overboard.

What i really find frustrating is how they "didn't raise" season ticket prices, and while i am paying the same amount, i am no longer paying $30 a ticket per game in section 214. I am now paying $5 less than face value, so for this weekend i am paying $38 for $43 face value tickets. I have Saturdays game, which i am going to, and Sundays game which i am trying to sell, but i am not getting offers that come close to what i paid. AND if i look on the twins site now, same row, same section, they are charging $52 per ticket... WHAT?

Maybe they will buy my tickets back at $43 per ticket and they can resell for more since i am having no luck.

The face that my seats range in value from $20-$50 is crazy. and if they are going to do that, then charge the season ticket holders the lowest number, $20, for all games...

Sorry, disoriented rant over, back to work.

Perhaps their area based demand pricing is an attempt to maximize premium seating sales. Better to have a fan pay for a reduced priced premium seat than a regular priced outfield seat. Provided of course their having problems with selling the Premium seats.

The two games I attended this year were in section 115. In that area most of the top 10 rows of sections 116 and 113 are empty the first few innings of the game. Then they slowly fill in while the Home Run Porch seats slowly empty. So If it were me I'd be trying to adjust prices in a way that entices fans to upgrade their seating areas when purchasing a ticket, rather than upgrading during the game.

I only wish I had the opportunity to demand price comparison shop. But the ADA seating is still near sold out each game making comparison shopping not possible. I still haven't been able to purchase a Home Plate Terrace ticket since TF opened.

Dave,

I have about 15 games left on the year to sell in Home Plate Terrace, sec 214, including Sunday email me if you want to see my list

I may be interested in some Thrillhouse, proviced they are wheelchair row seats? If not, then I wouldn't be able to use them.

provided ...

sorry Dave, they are not, they are behind home plate row 3, no wheel chair spots in that section.

OK seriously, they mow the grass a different way and no one cares?

Also following up on an earlier topic, the Siebert Field lead... I went to this afternoon's game (first one since the opening weekend against Ohio State) and saw a few changes. Looks like they've dug up that berm area over the LF fence. The outfield fences are also adorned with retired numbers, NCAA championship and CWS years, and total number of Big Ten titles, B1G tourney titles and NCAA appearances. And a couple new ads from Mortenson and Subway.

Functional, still, not overwhelming.

I am a non-smoker, but what an embarrassment by the state of Minnesota and Governor Dayton. Let's tax the smokers for the state's portion of the new Vikings stadium....Anyone with common sense could have said the e-pulltabs were not an adequate funding source. And the best plan of all, racino, was never a possibility because it was so simple and made too much sense.

All I can say is that they better allow smoking in designated areas at the new stadium if they are going to expect smokers to pay for the state's portion of the new stadium. And this is coming from a non-smoker.

The whole Vikings stadium deal was a fraud from the very start.

I still think the best plan was to put slots in the airport. Get a ton of bored, passing through, non-Minnesotans to help pay for our stadium. Maybe there are regulatory issues with that, but it seemed like easy money to me.

The legislators didn't want to feel the wrath of the voters - or those face-painted yahoos in the capitol hallways - if they didn't get a stadium deal done. But at the same time the anti-tax crowd couldn't allow a tax, which would have been a much more reliable source of funding than any new gambling. They were caught between a rock and a hard place. Coming up with several hundred million extra dollars without raising or imposing a tax is a recipe for the kind of "smoke and mirrros" funding formula we got with e-pulltabs.

Just let them build the downtown casino in Block E, have it run by MN State lottery, just like Kansas did. click link to read cnn article

oops, time.com, not cnn, dont want to be liar, otherwise i might have to run for office

Terry your comment made me think that would be a great title for a book about the Vike's Stadium, "Smoke and Mirrors....and Pulltabs". Maybe Pat Reusse can write it.

I agree with Thrillhouse, except put it in the old West building in St. Paul, not the toliet that is Block E.

More interesting is that they are going to divert the money St. Paul repays the state back into the Xcel Energy Center for improvements. At this point they should just save the $160m on Target Center, tear it down and put the Wolves at Xcel. Save everyone the money, and get rid of the compition. Minneapolis would have the Twins, Gophers, and Vikings, the biggest draws, and St. Paul get the Wild and Timberwolves. It would be an equal deal and save everyone a great deal of money.

The Xcel Energy center's sightlines are no more suited to basketball than the Dome's are to baseball. The Timberwolves also have a heavy corporate season ticket base in downtown Minneapolis that wouldn't take kindly to a move. It's one thing for those fans to stay downtown, grab dinner and drinks, and then walk to the arena. It's another to drive across the metro area at peak rush hour for the game and then get home, often in points west or south of Minneapolis, much later.

I admit that the Wild have plenty of Minneapolis corporate and suburban fans, but still think going to St. Paul would cost the Twolves at the gate. The two teams have different fan bases with little crossover in the way the Gophers, Vikes, and Twins crossover. The journey's obstacles are mental as well as geographic. I'll also add that while not in as rough shape as Target Center, the Xcel Energy Center is also beginning to look a bit worn and dated. The main scoreboard in particular is behind the times now. Both buildings could use refreshing.

Jorge, I don't understand this... "The Xcel Energy center's sightlines are no more suited to basketball than the Dome's are to baseball." To me the reason baseball at the Dome was bad was that all the seats faced straight out. Making most of them centered on CF rather than the pitcher or home plate. At the Xcel wouldn't the basketball court be placed in the center of the rink, then filled in with flat seats. Wouldn't most seats be aimed at center court?

I may have been a tad over dramatic with the Dome/baseball comparison, but the point stands. The sightlines for hockey and basketball are similar, but differ. An NHL rink is 200 feet long by 85 feet wide. An NBA court is 94 feet long by 50 feet wide. Target Center is meant for basketball and brings the fixed seats closer to the floor than would be the case at the Xcel Center. In particular, the dead space behind the baskets leading to the hockey end boards pushes thousands of fixed seats further from the action when a court sits on a hockey sized surface.

They have had hockey at Target Center before, showing it is not very different. Kind of like a concert at Xcel. I think it really would be ok... I think the bigger point is, as you said, the fan base in more Minneapolis business based. Many would not transfer to St Paul.

What do you think the chances are they play all 3 this weekend? Forecast for lots of rain. I will be behind the BoSox dugout tonight. Praying for no rain. :)

Rain should be cleared out by 6:00 PM tonight, so you are good for tonight. looks like spotty rain all weekend, so i think all 3 get played, rain delay sunday? maybe.

When Hockey is played at Target Center, there are several rows removed at the end and on the side. The floor is then hydrolically raised to create more hockey friendly sightlines. This unique aspect of the building was highly touted upon construction in the event the North Stars ever wished to leave Met Center to come downtown. I know of no other arena with this feature. The Xcel Center is locked into hockey format with no such radical configuration.

Jorge - indeed you are correct about TC and hockey. The North Stars did want to move to TC back in the day. From what I remember hearing, Norm Greed had a whole bunch of stipulations: 10% of gate as rent, so much percentage of ads, parking, what have you.

So - he sends the deal to Marv and Harv (Twolves owners at the time) and they essentially met EVERY one of his demands. Greed is sitting in his office with Pat Forceia, looks at this positive response from Marv and Harv, and in two seconds tells Forceia, "This is not going to work".

I read about that in Jay Weiner's book Stadium Games. I HATE reading that story because it pisses me off every time. We could still have the North Stars today if it wasn't for a low-down, greedy owner.

Clicky for the excerpt from the book I mentioned. It tells the whole sordid story.

As I recall, when there was talk of both the North Stars and Timberwolves sharing a building, there were several points of contention centering on scheduling priorities and suite and fixed ad revenues. Who would sell them; who would approve them, and how would the revenues be split. I see no reason why two tenants at the Xcel Center wouldn’t run into the same issues. While hockey and basketball teams elsewhere have worked out these differences and seem to thrive, in the Twin Cities market, the two teams have become accustomed to having the run of their respective buildings.

It would certainly make sense, but I’d predict that both sides would prove too intractable at this point to hammer out a workable arrangement.

It's been years since I cracked open that book, Luke. Upon rereading the excerpt you linked to, it's clear that my powers of recollection were not complete.

Its been a while for me too...but that story always stuck with me.
Matter of fact, if memory serves correctly, the Wolves wanted to share the Met with the Stars before the NBA made the Wolves build a new arena- as the other three cities were doing the same.

But i agree, both the Wild and Wolves have been apart for so long, working it out now would be a nightmare. The Bulls and Blackhawks, Rangers/Knicks, Lakers/Kings have done it for years and it works for them, but here...it would not.

No one here cares about grass mowing anymore, but did anyone notice the KTWIN logo super-imposed on the batter's eye on the wide camera shots?

As far as I know it just appeared over the weekend.

Didn't see KTWIN. Did see Carrier.

Been seeing them for quite a while now. Perhaps since the beginning of the season.

Interesting. I guess it's something different than I've seen anywhere else. Makes me think the big ugly black monster won't see trees anytime soon.

Maybe they'll superimpose the trees?? So they can turn them on and off at will (for the batters that complained about the trees).

So FSN is giving Target Field the Chet's Shoes treatment? How wonderfully considerate of them.

I remember when Target Field opened in 2010 and Dave St Peter talked about how they did not want excessive signage/advertising at Target Field and how they were focused on the "4 founding partners" in US Bank,Treasure Island, Best Buy, Target in addition to Anheuser Busch.

Now that attendance has plummeted since 2010-2011, we are seeing all kinds of new ads just like the Metrodome days. Great Clips Great Seats, Thomson Reuters Champions Club, they have ads painted on the walls of the bullpen. Why have the 7th inning stretch when you can have the "Lexus 7th inning stretch". You can't have the Twins radio network, it's the Treasure Island Baseball network.

Sports has become such a joke with all of the advertising these days.

Anyone hear about the Mother's Day pink bat fiasco with MLB/Louisville Slugger/Max Bat? (click link)

We all know, MLB promotes pink on Mother's Day to raise awareness for breast cancer.
Basically, Louisville Slugger paid MLB so only their logo could be put on the pink bats. So some players, including Trevor Plouffe, had Max Bat brands and were not allowed to use their bats because the Max Bat logo was painted on the pink bat.

Of course MLB and Louisville Slugger reversed course and allowed all bats in return for a donation to the Suzan G Komen foundation or some other agreement.

The whole idea is to promote awareness for breast cancer and find a cure but MLB/Louisville slugger seemed to think its all about money and corporate greed. And that's the direction we are heading these days unfortunately.

I remember when Target Field opened in 2010 and Dave St Peter talked about how they did not want excessive signage/advertising at Target Field and how they were focused on the "4 founding partners" in US Bank,Treasure Island, Best Buy, Target in addition to Anheuser Busch.

Now that attendance has plummeted since 2010-2011, we are seeing all kinds of new ads just like the Metrodome days. Great Clips Great Seats, Thomson Reuters Champions Club, they have ads painted on the walls of the bullpen. Why have the 7th inning stretch when you can have the "Lexus 7th inning stretch". You can't have the Twins radio network, it's the Treasure Island Baseball network.

Sports has become such a joke with all of the advertising these days.

Anyone hear about the Mother's Day pink bat fiasco with MLB/Louisville Slugger/Max Bat? (click link)

We all know, MLB promotes pink on Mother's Day to raise awareness for breast cancer.
Basically, Louisville Slugger paid MLB so only their logo could be put on the pink bats. So some players, including Trevor Plouffe, had Max Bat brands and were not allowed to use their bats because the Max Bat logo was painted on the pink bat.

Of course MLB and Louisville Slugger reversed course and allowed all bats in return for a donation to the Suzan G Komen foundation or some other agreement.

The whole idea is to promote awareness for breast cancer and find a cure but MLB/Louisville slugger seemed to think its all about money and corporate greed. And that's the direction we are heading these days unfortunately.

This may have been answered earlier in this or another forum, but what are the two baseballs on the ground on the right and left sides of the batter eye? Flowers?

Pretty sure we've done the whole "advertisements are ruining the game" bit in the past. Suffice it to say, it's not a new phenomenon. Check out the linked pic of Fenway's Left Field Wall before it became the "Green" Monster.

And "Corporate greed" - a clear redundancy - isn't new, either.

As has been mentioned before, MLB has given consideration to allowing "subdued" and "tasteful" advertising on uniforms.

On another note --- how many folks waited out the 3 hour rain delay?

"Maybe they'll superimpose the trees?? So they can turn them on and off at will (for the batters that complained about the trees)."

They could show the trees all the time, since the batters wouldn't see them anyway. But it might silence what's left of the disappearing trees hubbub. If that worked, maybe they could superimpose a checkerboard grass pattern as well.

Anyone else getting as tired as I am of watching Twins starters giving up crooked numbers in the first inning? I feel like I'm in "Groundhog Day", reliving 2012 over and over.

BBtT

I think we are starting to see the decline that most of us anticipated. The first month was probably an aberration, what we have seen the last two weeks is more like the 2013 Twins we expected and that is lack of pitching and lack of clutch hitting with a lot of raw talent that is developing. It will soon be time to start shopping players such as Morneau, Plouffe and Willingham.

This 9-game road trip will say a lot and last night was not a very good start. At least they get lucky and avoid Verlander in the 4-game series at Detroit.

You just aren't going to win many games when you can't hit or pitch. All you need to do is look at these batting averages and ERA's.

Dozier .205
Parmelee .200
Willingham .200
Doumit .218
Hicks .144
Ploufee .254

Diamond 4.99
Worley 6.20
Pelfrey 6.57
Correia 3.90
Hernandez 5.85

That's embarrassing.

They'll keep working in the prospects. Gibson's going to come up soon, to take Hernandez's place in the rotation. (I have to say, Hernandez got hosed by the defense in his last start - Florimon botched one and Hicks dropped a catchable ball. He's not great, but he might actually be better than PElfrey/Worley right now. Anyway...)

It will be intersting to see if they move Morneau or Willingham. Is Parmalee the answer to any positional question? What if Morneau would take a 2 year/$24M deal similar to what the older Adam Laroche resigned with Washington for this past offseason? Would you do that? Or tender him at the $13.5M or so level and take a comp pick if he signs elsewhere?

Either option would pay him less than he's currently getting. If your answer is no, what do you think they'll realistically get in a trade for half a Morneau season? And who else would you like them to spend some money on? Who do you want at first base and in the middle of the order?

Winona, I like your idea about superimposing an image of the trees - maybe holograms.

Or why not turn the flower bed under the batter's eye into a movable platform - bring back real trees that could be visible in all their glory between innings, but discreetly lowered out of sight when our sensitive players are at bat.

BBtT

The Mendoza Twins.

I just discovered that the Twins still have a Nishioka jersey in their online store. Only $99.99!

That just seems so wrong...

LOL. that's like the Vikings selling a Herschel Walker jersey. Or the Two lives selling a Pooh Richardson jersey.

Jesus Christ my smartphone is dumb. How about the TWOLVES selling a Pooh Richardson jersey.

We have no No. 1, No. 2 and really no No. 3 starting pitcher. Our best guys are hitting .200. The shine is off of TF. Good luck, Twins management!

The only people still watching the Twins are my octogenarian parents.

Is this the year they finally break that 100 loss barrier? The games where they get blown out and go 1 for 15 with RISP as they did Sunday and Monday are bad enough, but the games they should have won, like last night's, are even worse.

It would help if they had a few leaders on the team.

Trade Morneau right now while he's hot.

Well if was fun for the first few weeks! But the wheels have fallen off the cart. Time to blow this thing up? Any market for the catcher?? I think a 5 year rebuild is in order. I agree on trading Morneau. Maybe time for MR Whipple to go also. How long can Gardy go with we battled our tails off? Larry has to be nervous with the Big Ten college tournament at TF! Will this be too much for Larry? Meanwhile enjoy the 100 loss season and sit where you want at TF. Back to the good old days of crowds in the 20's!!!!

The horrible personnel moves they've made in recent years are really coming home to roost. J.J. Hardy for some pitcher who couldn't find the strike zone with a GPS system? OUCH!

Chose watching last night's game instead of fishing in the rain last night. (Another opportunity lost for both me and the team...) Picked it up after the rain delay and was all set to hit the rack as soon as Perkins records that final out... Oh. Hmm... do I stay up watch the extras? After the Twins were retired in the 10th, I knew I need not continue. The ending was easily written without losing any more shuteye.

"Chose watching last night's game instead of fishing in the rain last night."
Did I mention that last night's game was played played last night? :) Oh, for an 'Edit' button...

Looks like we can put the Revere for Worley trade into the same category as the Hardy for Hoey trade. The Vanimal is going to get someone in the bleachers killed.

Vanimal will be just fine....after he gets with a team that has a real pitching coach.

Crazy background for that Gattis fellow (who is the player d'jour crushing us)...

Dont you have to build something to have a rebuild?

Twink win o meter now at 66 games and dropping like its hot!

Wow looks like about 20 people at TF today watching the Gopher game! Larry has to be depressed watching those college kids rip into his masterpiece in the constant rain and mist. Did they even open up the concession stands?. Why play at TF don't they have a brand new ballpark?

There are no quick fixes for what ails the Twins because they utterly lack the starting pitching required for even a respectable major league staff. Minnesota is never going to be high on the list for any really good pitchers in free agency or with the power to at least partially dictate their landing spot in a trade. This club has to create and nurture pitching internally. Rather than attracting the outsiders, the Target Field money was meant to enable the Twins to retain homegrown talent. Unfortunately the Twins' systematic failure to develop even passable starting pitchers has undermined the entire program. Until they get that fixed, and it'll take years, no one should hope for more than a freak wildcard run.

I like how they decided not to give Gibson a chance until he becomes more consistant. He has a good start and then a bad start. He needs to take a page from Twins Opening Day starter Vance "the Vanimal" Worley and have consistant bad starts. When I hear names like Deduno, PJ Walters, DeVries, Hendricks (what? No Blackburn???)...the heart and soul of major league worst 2012 pitching staff being tossed around to replace the second worst major league worst 2013 pitching staff (who ironically the 2013 staff was brought in to replace the 2012 staff)........that doesnt sound too promising. And the supposed only sure thing in the off season (as he was touted) Diamond has resorted to what we saw last 2 1/2 months of last season-representative of a sh*tty pitching staff made up of cast offs and has beens. We may as well name Tommy John as a starter-I have seen his name mentioned the most w/ our pitchers.

Twinfan, from your previous post you know that the Big Ten Tournament is going on at Target Field. However, you still asked why the Gophers didn't play at their new ballpark today. Do you just post stupid things for something to do?

The Vanimal will be pitching for the Rochester Red Wings in the immediate future. Not sure who is being brought up to take his roster spot. Anything this side of a batting tee would be an improvement.

twinkfan: did you eat paint chips as a child? or are you and luke long, lost twins? it has to be one of these things. me shaking my head......

Not even the All Star Game will help season ticket sales next year if this keeps up. I believe the Twins have now got the second-fastest-loss-of-new-ballpark-effect and the only reason they don't have first place is because of Loria's latest FU to Marlns fans.

Beta- at least I knew the Big Ten tourney was at TF...lol, therefore would explain why the Rodents werent at Siebert, as to Twinks' query.

Isnt Blackburn still recovering from surgery. That could be why his name isnt mentioned as a call up.

Don't think it was paint chips - probably has more to do with a steady diet of Holiday dogs...

Twins fans are getting hosed. I understand that money doesn't guarantee winning, but the team's payroll is 21st in baseball, and it's not because they're breaking oin a half dozen stud prospects. They're going cheap at about 10 roster spots with journeyman players. They're behind the Pirates and Royals in payroll, for cryin' out loud.

Sure, Tampa, Oakland and Cleveland have lowert payrolls, but only Tampa of those teams has been consistently competitive over the past 5 years. Part of that is that Tampa was awful for a decade and drafted with numerous high picks. Part is that their front office is now one of the best in the game. But they're the exception.

More typical is Detroit. They developed a couple of stars and role players. They traded for a young star and a couple of other young, solid contributors.

And they've signed big name free agents. This past offseason, they added Sanchez even though they already had Verlander and solid #2 and 3 starters, all of whom were better than any starter the Twins had. The result? They've been the best overall team in the division for 3 years, and a legit World Series contender. But they also have a payroll almost $70M higher than the Twins.

Not all of Detroit's moves have paid off, but if you only sign your own players, then you are going to go through some serious droughts. You HAVE to spend money and ultimately trade a few prospects to become and remain competitive.

The Twins' payroll is at least $20M lower than it should be in a new ballpark. That's Sanchez and, say, Jeremy Guthrie, instead of Correia and Pelfrey, in the rotation.

The contracts those guys signed were pricey; FA pitchers always cost "too much." But what's the price of not signing decent pitchers? A loss of wins and competitiveness. Those two pitchers would not make the Twins playoff contenders, but they'd be solid starters who'd still be in the rotation even if Meyer, Mays and Gibson all develop quickly. And the team would be far more capable of competing on a daily basis than they are now.

jfh I believe the Twins have now got the second-fastest-loss-of-new-ballpark-effect and the only reason they don't have first place is because of Loria's latest FU to Marlns fans.

You are forgetting the Mets. They dropped from 92% capacity in year 1 to 77% and then to 72% and 67%. Cincinnati didn't even get a new ballpark bounce, opening to 69% capacity in year one and have no seasons even above 70%. The Nationals opened at 69% and dropped to 54% the following year. Despite their playoff run of last year they still only managed to fill the park at a 72% rate.

Watching the Gophers yesterday was like seeing Bigfoot or Nessie, we got to see a clutch at bat in a big spot at Target Field! I had no idea it could be done!

Why should the Rodents play at TF? No reason they can't host the big 10 tourney on the next turf? They draw like 50 fans to the park. Play all the games a Siebert and save Larrys grass man!

With the Twins still sitting at 20,000+ full season equivalents, they are not doing bad at all for attendance as far as tickets sold.

Now, actual fans in attendance, that is another issue.

But until the fans quit buying tickets, quit watching/listening to games on tv/radio, or quit buying merchandise, the ownership group and front office have no reason to do anything to improve the team on the field.

Why the Twins still have 20,000+ FSE's is beyond me. I dumped my season tickets last year because I refuse to give this organization 100's of my dollars.

Ah twinfan, you don't let common sense or facts stop you I see.

1) The tournament has been at a neutral site since 2009. And if the tourny were being played on non-neutral site rules the Gophers would never have hosted the tournament at Siebert field b/c they didn't win the regular season title.
2)The Big Ten selected Target Field as this season's neutral site. Minnesota has no part in it. Next season it will be at TDS Ameritrade in Omaha. Heads up, Nebraska will have no part in that decision either.

Are you sure GoAUpher? I thought the decision to play the tourney at TF was part of the broader overall conspiracy by the Trilateral commission and others to mesmerize the masses with Larry DeVito's lawn mowing pattern.

I am regretting my decision to keep season tickets. We do a group split into 8 shares, and 2 shares dropped, this year, we all just should of done so.

The damn all star game will probably keep our group again for one more year. But if everyone else in my group wants out, i will be happy to be out at as well. trying to sell the extra shares just to break even is a nightmare this year.

Seems silly to play those games in a big league park is all I'm saying! Thank God it's not raining! Larry leaping with Joy! Rick had a delicious Holiday Johnsonville brat for lunch! Very tasty. My fist game this year in May 31st. I called the Holiday station near the yard to make sure they will have plenty on hand to load up before the game. Twins don't seem to mind I use their condiments either. Although I did get a look from the concession guy when I asked for some onions!

Oops meant I had a brat! I had Macs fish and chips at the St Paul location a couple of weeks ago. Wasn't to bad big portions but almost $9.00 for the 2 fish combo!

I see TF has added a second concert this year July 26th with Soul Asylum, Big Head Todd and a couple others. Stage limited to along 3rd base line. Larry is going to be a busy man in early and late July. Course with only 9 home games the entire month what else you going to do?

Oh no, more goat ropping!

Rick,

the coaching move might keep some STH, or even bring in new ones, but i think the only thing that will sustain 20K and above is a winning team after the All Star Game. If they can't even be 500, the numbers will drop fast. (at least one group will be dropping!)

Q: "How long can Gardy go with we battled our tails off?"

A: Going on three years now.

Speaking of food, they added a roast beef and cheddar sandwhich, in the Legends Club anyway. Save the $13 and if you're hungry buy a Tony O's for $10. It's a rip off at $3 more than Tony O's, and probably not even worth $10 in the ballpark world.

That concert lineup is fitting, considering the team is playing like it is 1996 all over again.

(rimshot)

Stevie - you're right, I forgot the Mets and Citi field. Both NY team's STH 's have really gotten a raw deal, so at least Twins STH aren't in that boat.

Folling what Rick said, I expect a massive nosedive in FTE in the 2014 offseason unless some miracle occurs. The Twins need to have a plan, and have STHs buy into it, not just flail around aimlessly. As for the FA market, sometimes you have to go in, if to do nothing else to silence the critics that you aren't doing enough. And replacing Gardy and/or the coaching staff is a smokescreen, not a solution.

I don't think I will sell my LC seats any time soon, but if I don't see something significant between now and next July, my HPB seats won't be renewed for 2015. I'm getting pretty discouraged to see the Twins lose every time I fly in to town and it might not be worth trying to keep the seats until we move to the area, especially if I'll be able to get great seats if we are going to be in rebuild mode for the next five years are so.

I predict 14K-16k FTE for 2015 and about 13K for 2016 ... Any one think that is unfair?

Last night was the game they had a chance to win and probably should have won. If the pattern holds true to form, the next three games will be blow-outs.

JFH...do you have your HPB seats in a transferrable entity? The Twins will say you can't transfer ownership of seats, but you can change the name of an organization that owns them, and you can change the contact person for that organization.

This is really important when registering seats, and I'm sure few understand it.

Mmmm, snow cones and toilets. Germs, germs, germs. You germophobes don't stand a chance! Linky.

Probably nothing new to all of us but its worth a gross out now and then.